Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Return of the Levitz/Giffen team for LSH in 2013

I'm certainly not looking forward to killing to show the consequences of fighting in the 31st century.
Like, we don't have killing everywhere around us in the 21st.

A thousand years from now, and to understand consequences, we have to have dead and wounded warriors.

I think Giffen and Levitz are the ones who need to understand about consequences.
We'll see.

And I hope it's not Cos.
His family has already lost Pol.

CB lost his powers? Hmm, did I go pick up my issues last month? Drat, I think I'd better get over there. Lost track of time.

His magnetism is recovering apparently.

I think the key phrase from what Giffen's saying is that "We'll make it harder to do things in the 30th Century." Considering that they talked about a massive galactic-wide blackout when this was announced, I'm thinking that part of it is that technology is going to be regressed or at least heavily complicated. Think like the endings of Mass Effect 3.

or maybe the Mayans were 1000 years off?

For me I hope they kill off a lot of the newbies and focus on the 'classic' Legionnaires. Not that I hate the newbies but they are getting too much face time at the expense of characters we know and loved for years.

The things that bugs me about the newbies are their irreverent attitudes and their outfits. But Chemical Kid's minor character growth in the latish issue dod molidfy me somewhat.

The newbs are boring and have no fashion sense. I think Chemical Kid could be saved with a make over. The rest can die at the hands of the Fatal Five.

I hope Levitz is able to reign in Giffen's tendency to go over the top with some things. Remember, it was Giffen's idea to blow up the Earth, an ill-advised move that led to the entire franchise being rebooted. In fact, some of what I'm hearing from him now reminds me of the massive changes that came with the 5YL series. Although that series, in retrospect, was very well done, it did take the Legion past the point of no return in many ways.

As far as killing off major characters I want a free pass to substitute Harmonia Li for any one character that he decides to do away with. I can't imagine myself being a fan of any Legion that lost, say, Cham or Tinya and kept Harmonia instead. The fact is that Harmonia callously allowed Titan to be destroyed, even though it was clearly shown that she knew what was likely to happen and could have acted to prevent it. As far as I'm concerned, that makes her culpable in the deaths of millions (billions?) of sentients and definitely not Legion material.

I don't know what the endings of Mass Effect 3 are, but I don't think the writers can make things too difficult and retain the essense of the Legion.

Multiple planets and cultures with quick space travel linking them are absolute requirements for this book.

And they really only have three or four options - science, religion, magic or multiple billions of Shikaris/Gates/Rond Vidars(Green Lanterns.)

I like the kids, Glorith and Dragonwing. They have vast potential, imo, and kids tend to be emotional and extreme in their attitudes, so they don't bother me.
CK is not a favorite of mine, though, I'm afraid.

Harmonia is a waste of space.

The attitude of the kids doesn't bother me so much as they are, you know, kids, and it strikes me as fairly standard, if cliched, newbie characterization. I'm much more bothered characterization-wise by turning Brek into someone irresponsible enough that he passes out drunk in the street or the continued Vril-ification of Brainy.

I really think the title needs some of the boldness of the 5YL era or DnA's run, both of which had things I really didn't like, but at least they weren't boring, which is what the title has hovered around being the past few years. And, anyway, stuff I don't like can always be fixed in the inevitable next reboot.

My Major objection to the Vrillification of Brainy isn't the change in Brainy so much as the absconding with the personality of the of the best characters I've ever read. Vril is a character that Brainy should be afraid of, should they ever meet.

and speaking of all time best

one of the best single issues, ever.

But in hind sight, I'm not sure it being "Earth" was what made it. I think that whole story line probably would have worked as Legion trying fruitlessly to save some other system, probably a Legion home world.

I agree that it was an outstanding issue.


Unfortunately it was also a major bridge burner.

I actually thought that bringing in the Pocket Universe Earth as a replacement was actually a pretty sweet idea. I would've been pretty happy with that, if Zero Hour hadn't happened.

Me, too.

Couldn't agree more.

Agreed on the boringness--it's part of why I've been enjoying Legion Lost more. Sure, it's a bit of a hot mess, but at least it's not being SAFE.

But the Pocket Universe Earth was rendered lifeless by Zod & co in Matrix-Supergirl's origin story. The effect that story's ending - where Superman executes the three Kryptonian criminals for killing that Earth - had on the series, leading to the year-long Exile arc that introduced the Eradicator and (by extension) the post-Crisis Fortress of Solitude, Reign of the Supermen and Return of Superman was THE WHOLE REASON the Pocket Universe story was preserved in any form in the Glorithverse when everything else Super-related got yanked from the Legion!

Nothing a little terraforming wouldn't fix.

Though, of course, how annoying is it that after Superboy gave his life to insure the preservation and future safety of his Earth, Byrne went ahead and destroyed all life on it. Jeepers, DC! What kind of crap will you think of next? You might as well bring Earth-2 Superman back from his post-Crisis paradise, and then have him beaten to death by the Superboy of Earth-Prime! Oh, wait...

A lot of the lead-up to it was kinda crap, but looking back, there was some good stuff in Infinite Crisis, IMO.

^ I'm of the opposite opinion. I thought the one-shot special Countdown to Infinite Crisis (not to be confused with the excremental Countdown to Final Crisis) was excellent, and the 4 lead-in mini-series' (most especially Day of Vengeance) were all pretty good too.

But Infinite Crisis itself was just a jumbled mess to me. It had a few good moments but they were few and far between and as a sequel to the much better in every way Crisis on Infinite Earths, I thought it did that first series a real disservice too.

You know... all of that stuff kind of blends together for me now.

I did like the whole giant tuning fork with heroes from various realities hooked up to it, but that's about all I remember liking in the series.

A Brainy-less legion might actually be a real possibility as Giffen states "And it becomes really easy to just have them grab some piece of technology off the shelf and go, here's how we end it! He uses this super-neutralizer." And who better to have invented that no longer accessible super-neutralizer in the past - Brainy!

A Brainy-less Legion wouldn't be a bad thing, if only for a year or two anyway. The franchise certainly needs a shake up as the Lost crew return and they get their team numbers up to a decent level again it would be good to see that they aren't returned to the status quo immediately. If they are planning to get rid of a few old timers - if only retiring them, it's a brave but IMO necessary step for the group to evolve.

Maybe the group could be split up a bit - an Earth based group alongside an academy group, a Webers World group, a roving strike force, the kids on Talkon-Galtos etc. That way at least we could hope to see a wider selection of members on a rotating basis rather than Brainy, Nura, Cos and Jo in just about every issue.

It's kind of sad to me that the only way most writers can produce a dramatic shake up is through character death. I've been a writer for 15 years, and I rarely if ever write deaths due to it being so extreme. It should be used sparingly otherwise it loses all it's effectiveness! Killing characters just because you can and need a drama kick is really very lame.

That being said, I hope they don't kill anyone. It is entirely possible to revitalize this (admittedly boring) series without going that route.

And, I know I'm biased due to Brainiac 5 being my favorite character, but I really hope they don't get rid of him. If they want to push him to the background for a little while, fine. But I think I would cry openly if they killed him.