Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION The Anywhere Machine Deathly Hallows Spoilers...No, REALLY!

As I posted on the other thread, I've been a virtual emotional wreck for the last 36 hours since starting Deathly Hallows. I'm sure everyone is going to talk about the nature of what Harry does, the legitimacy or corniness of the epilogue, etc., but I wept in front of my family on the back porch while reading "The Battle of Hogwarts." The appearance of everyone that had ever meant anything to Harry over the course of the last seven years, and their bravery and support, was as affecting and moving as almost anything I've seen or read in my adult life. The deaths of Tonks and Lupin and the continuation of the tragedy that affected Harry, McGonagle's arse-kicking, Neville's final evolution into everything his "Gran" ever could have wanted, Mrs. Weasley's fury...even if over the next few days I feel a little cheated by the "happiness" of the ending, Rowling found a completely worthy climax to a story that I will continue to relish with my children and one day my grandchildren. Harry more than earned his happy ending.

I've read the last few chapters 3 times (starting with "The Lost Diadem") and I still tear up reading several scenes.

Comic Book Editors should be required to read all of the internet speculation surrounding this book before reading the book itself. That way they can see how the quality of the story is maintained when the writer's original plans are followed through despite fans guessing what many of the plot points would be. This story would not have been anywhere near as moving if things like <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Harry being the seventh horcrux</span></span> had been changed because many fans seemed to know they were coming.

I finished it this afternoon, and it was glorious. What a finale! What a climax! Harry dies (kind of) and lives. He willingly chooses death, then chooses to go back and finish the job. The last few chapters were as gripping as anything I have ever read. Tolkein, eat out thy heart! My favorite was the anticipated entrance of the house elves, and their unanticipated leader, Kreacher.

I was devasted by Fred's death, and as for Lupin and Tonks, man Rowling had me on the roller coaster the whole book! In the first chapter, Tonks is marked for death. Then, she gets married and has a baby, so you think she's safe. Then she and Remus bite it off-panel. ARGHH!

The idea that Harry had a piece of Volde's soul made perfect sense, and I would have been disappointed if Rowling didn't use that. Just because something is obvious to the reader doesn't mean it isn't a devastating revelation to the character, and Rowling portrayed that vividly.

I think Harry earned the 19 years later epilogue. Knowing "for sure" that Harry was able to have a family and see his kids grow up, as his parents could not, was a really important capstone on the story. And the fact that he's still touching his scar 19 years later suggests some lingering effects of the experience.

What I'm most impressed by is the fact that Harry really did EARN his victory. This was not some pre-destined fait acccompli. Whether he should have or not, Harry was made into Voldemort's nemesis by Voldemort's own obsession with the prophecy. While Harry is talented, decent, selfless and extraordinarily valiant, his triumph is the victory of the everywizard over a power-mad elitist.

I AM left wondering so much, too, like what Harry DOES with himself after the final victory. He had talked of becoming an auror, but that seems dubious, in part because the dark wizards seem to have been suitably routed, and also because, as the owner of the Elder Wand, Harry cannot afford to die in battle, or his vanquisher would inherit the Elder Wand. On the other hand, Harry doesn't seem to be the sort satisfied with a desk job. It also surprised me that Harry wasn't himself an instructor at Hogwarts. Again in Hallows we are reminded it is the only place Harry, Snape or Voldemort ever felt truly at home. Perhaps finally having a family of his own broadened Harry's perspective?
How much of Harry's life was dictated by a need to moderate the adulation and curiosity he engenders? And did Harry ever reconcile with the Dursleys? Dudley certainly would be open to that, I think, and the pensieve flashback indicates Petunia also had some conflicted interest in magic. I imagine Dudley would benefit greatly from some long chats with Aberforth Dumbledore over a pint or three. So there is really a lot of dramatic tension left unresolved, at least to me.

Well said, DC. I, too, thoroughly enjoyed it.

Fred, Lupin and Tonks really hurt, and I kept waiting for Sirius to return in the flesh. All he did in the fifth book is fall through a portal. Everyone knows, that's just a set-up for his return, no matter where it leads. But there he was when Harry used the stone.

So, sure, I cried a bit for all of them, but the one that surprised me the most was Dobby. I cried for that stupid, annoying little house elf -- the Jar Jar Binks of Harry Potter! It was good to see Kreacher redeemed.

I really had only two nitpicks. First, I was disappointed that Luna wasn't mentioned in the epilogue. Hermione should have picked up a Quibbler and seen a headline that said she was taking over from her father as publisher, with new presses bought from the money she got selling that whatever horn. (That would show that uppity Hermione.)

And during the battle, I really didn't like that Mrs. Weasley said, "bitch." Even in the heat of the moment, I found that extremely out of character for her. The moment wouldn't have been any less powerful if she'd left it at "NOT MY DAUGHTER."

But if those are my only quibbles, then I have to raise a toast to Ms. Rowling, but with all her money, she's buying.

After continuing to think about the book for the two days since finishing (I had to lend it to a friend so I had a real, live boy to talk to about it), I think the only real quibble (hee) I have is that some of the denouments feel a little rushed. Percy coming to his senses, the explanation of Dumbledore's death, Hedwig's and Dobbie's somewhat jarring (were they really necessary for what Rowling wanted to do?), the appearence of Lupin and Tonk's bodies, the death of Fred--all seemed a little tossed off. Still, one of the most satisfying epic endings ever. Hope Robert Jordan can rise from his sickbed and come anywhere near it.

Neville is my hero. Nuff said.

I thought it was a very god book and even though some of the stuff when they were on the run went on a little bit it was worth it just for the final battle. If they don't have Maggie Smith running down a corridor in her tartan dresing gown with a load of attack-tables in the film then I shall be most disappointed. But yeah, Neville and Luna are the real stars of the story to my mind. A couple of the deaths didn't really get me the way they should either because I never really care about them to start with (Mad-Eye Moddy) or because I was fully expecting them to happen (Fred and Snape) but some of the others really got me. Hedwig shocked me hugely and I was gutted by Tonks and Lupin, but not nearly as gutted as I was when Colin died. I think the way that they were so perfunctory and weren't the huge death scenes that you usually get in books made them all the more emotional since it brought home how nasty and rushed the final battle was. There are plot holes (like how Neville got the sword from the goblins and why they gave it to him in the first place) but none of them are so big that they detract from the book as a whole.

But Neville is still my hero and he is the bravest and the best and stands up to Voldemort when everyone thinks all is lost, not because he's got a destiny or is the cleverest or the best at magic but simply because he knows it's the right thing to do. In my mind he progresses from being Profesor or Herbology to become the best Headmaster Hogwarts has ever seen. Yay!

Neville got the sword in the same way that Harry did: the Sorting Hat is a powerful magical artifact, and in a time of dire need a true Gryffindor reached into the hat and withdrew a Gryffindor artifact. I think the goblins were probably quite surprised (and irritated) to find it gone

And I agree about Maggie Smith. I've felt so bad that seasoned actors have had so little to do in the last few movies. I hope that they take full advantage of them in the 7th. McGonagall against Snape and then rallying the Hogwarts suits of armor and furniture are definite must see moments in that battle sequence. I look forward to usually flaky Trelawney tossing crystal balls at Death Eaters, as well Oooh, and Julie Walters vs Helena Bonham Carter!

Bevis,

Neville does rock! And I was so glad that he not only survived, but is a major hero in Voldemort's downfall. Ever since we learned about how similar Neville and Harry were, I figured Neville was marked for death. Instead, he flourishes into the undisputed leader in one of fantasy's best battles. Bravo! I second Neville for headmaster.

BTW, I think Neville "pulled the sword out of the hat" the same way Harry did in Chamber of Secrets, i.e., the sorting hat has magical powers for those who are worthy. Neville, having proven himself a true Gryffindor, pull's Godric's sword out the hat to save the day. Yes, it was a repeat of something already done, but it was unexpected, so OK.

And I totally heard Maggie Smith uttering all of McGonagall's dialogue. I wonder if Rowling has altered her writing in some subtle ways so that the characters sound more like the actors, or if the films have done just a wonderful job in the main of portraying the characters so faithfully?

And so ends an era. I have to say that, upon completion, I find myself utterly... satisfied. Was it perfect? No. But I definitely couldn't have done any better myself and am decidedly happier than I was at the end of Book 6. (Which did not leave me satisfied. At all.)

A note: I'm spoiler tagging all my comments just in case. And it's a rather long ramble as I've only just finished, so click at your own risk. It's mostly a jumble of thoughts and I wouldn't be surprised if it was half incoherent. So, uh... sorry.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">So, let's see... was the ending a bit coincidental? Probably. I wasn't especially impressed by the wand thing, though how Harry deduced it struck me a bit. And he's usually so thick... I found the beginning a bit slow. To be honest, I felt like it took ages and, while I realize that was a bit of the point, it was still annoying. I kept getting frustrated and having to put the book down and do something else to keep myself from spoiling it by flipping to the end. (I did that in Book 5 and regretted it.)

On Dudley: Okay, now here's a part that really surprised me. And was probably my first brush with tears. The way he didn't get it, how he really considered Harry family despite it all... why wouldn't he go with them? In his mind... I mean, seriously... it was so great. The idea that he'd grown. That he moved beyond it and really saw what Harry did for him-- it struck a chord. The right one, at that.

On Petunia: Less love here. It was somewhat clear that there was more to what she wanted to express than what she expressed but still. Frigid bitch. Still, I could see the resentment growing out of Snape's memories. She wanted to be with her sister. That... it gave a new perspective. One that added a curious dimension to the relationship between her and Dumbledore. I was actually rather impressed.

On Dumbledore: Christ, I was so convinced-- so sure-- he wasn't really dead... I'm seriously as dense as Ron sometimes. A lot of the time. Whatever. And I just love how it all came together. Why he was pleased at the end of Book 4. What he was babbling about in Book 6. Why he never became Minister. All the little things-- and the grand plan-- the man was bloody brilliant. I'm so glad he was flawed. I'm so glad he had his own evolution to go through, that his family wasn't perfect (because whose really is?) and there was some truth in the lies. It makes him so much more interesting. (And he was already pretty effin' interesting. I could read about just him for ages...)

On Snape: I fucking knew it! I mean, me and the rest of the world, right? But I so knew he wasn't really evil. It was too obvious. And, to be honest, I found the whole Lily love thing a touch too cliché for my tastes. (My inner-fanfic geek died a bit.) I really thought that was... dumb. But, dude. So worth it to see Snape's reaction to Dumbledore saying Harry had to die, though. I mean, he didn't like the kid but... jeez. If even he thought it was harsh, ya knew it was. And I didn't think it'd be possible but I'm sorry he died. Harry finally sees the real him and.. yeah. Sucks.

On Nacissa: God, she made me happy. A friend of mine actually hit the nail pretty hard on the head for me with her comments about the similarities between her and Molly in regards to their children. She also pointed out that in war people with similar idealogies are often divided by only the smallest differences. But, more than that, Narcissa's allegiance to her son confirmed everything I always hoped to believe about her. And it satisfied me so very much.

On Draco: Well, fuck, man. I don't know what to think about that. On the one hand, I actually really like his evolution through the spoiled rich boy stage into the part where he realizes that his daddy really doesn't own the rest of the world. I like to think he wouldn't have been so utterly pathetic if he'd had a wand but, honestly, he probably would've been. I never had any special affinity for the character like many Slytherin fans do; however, I always liked him for being so utterly himself. And, more than that, reminding me of people from high school that I did not like who have yet to get their comeuppances. Not that Draco got his, per se, but he did suffer-- justly, IMHO-- and I think he's better for it. Not a good person. But better than he was. And, Lord, I am so happy that he didn't turn hero or whatever. That just wouldn't... no. I love that despite it all, Dumbledore saved him from Voldemort. I mean, as much as he could be saved. And Ron hit on the head when he punched the sod and yelled, "And that's the second time we've saved your life tonight, you two-faced bastard!"

On Ron: I've always liked Ron for being such a boy. Even though he and Harry have really emo and girly fights... they solve them like boys and deal pretty well. To be perfectly honest, I've never been such a huge fan of his. Or even cared. But he won me over with the post-sword save and the stuff with the locket gave such a good glimpse into his mind. This time around, too, he did some really great comic relief. The aforementioned quote is one example. Another good one is the book he gave Harry for his birthday... Lord.. heh. I actually feared for him for a cool minute after he and Hermione finally snogged because, honestly, when their thing became "fully realized" he was pretty much useless. Hermione and her big brain would never be useless. But him... he could've been the Weasley to die. For sure.

On Hermione: If that girl cried anymore in the book, I might've had to pull her into reality to throttle her. I hate it when strong female characters cry all the time. (It goes back to some Dani issues... don't ask.) But I will say I didn't dislike any of her evolution. And, truthfully, I'm happy she and Ron ended up together. Seriously, she needs someone dumb enough to fight with her. And he obviously had affection for her. Someone like Krum would've just worshipped her and she would've been bored out of her skull. That whole thing... yeah. I'm happy with it.

On Krum: God, so happy he was at the wedding. He cracked me the fuck up. I didn't realize how much I missed him 'til he was back. I'm so glad he had a part to play, even if it was small.

On Kingsley: If it's wrong to love him, I don't wanna be right. I found it a tad strange he'd be the Minister (even if only in the interim) but still. I just love him. He's so tough and Vernon asking for him cracked me up. I can't verbalize it well, but I really, really like this character. I always have.

On Lupin and Tonks: Noooo! Wtf? WTF????! Seriously. No. Not okay. I was just thinking how Lupin was the only one left and then he wasn't left anymore. ][ Seriously. Pissed off. And Tonks-- why??? She was so cool and had all this potential and they had a fucking kid. Argh. So. Aggravating. I cried. Serious bawling like you wouldn't believe. Because... because it was so sad and Lupin was finally getting it right and Tonk's mum already had to lose her husband and... and... it was so unfair. It shouldn't have been them. They were just starting their real lives. Their life together. God. Things really do come full circle, eh?

On the Gryffindor Quidditch team: I don't care if they were throwaway cameos-- I was so happy when they showed, I nearly cheered. Seriously, something about a team sticking together like a family... chokes me up all nice-like. I was thrilled. Plus, movie!Oliver is hot, so hope springs eternal he'll show for the 7th film.

On the Weasley Twins: Okay, I'll be honest-- when George lost the ear I thought they were safe. Seriously, I was like, "Okay, they're not identical anymore and they're irrecoverably changed, it's enough." Yeah fucking right. I'm a dumbass. But when Fred died, Chris. You could've knocked me over with a feather. I was crying like a dumbshit and just... fuck, man. I knew it wouldn't be Percy (not after he apologized-- that would've been so stupid) but I kinda thought it might be Bill or Charlie. Not Fred, though. To be perfectly honest, he was always my favorite Weasley, too. I'm sure tons of people are saying that now that he's dead but I mean it. He was more interesting than George (that Angelina thing cracked me up), Percy was a git, Bill and Charlie weren't really around much, Mr. and Mrs. Weasley were too parental, Ginny's not my type of girl and Ron was a blockhead. I was totally bummed out. Like, whoa.

On Molly: Holy crap. Best line in the book. "NOT MY DAUGHTER, YOU BITCH!" Seriously, someone had to call Bellatrix it eventually. I didn't expect Mrs. Weasley to do it but there we are. I love her for fighting, you know. I think of the first war, losing her brothers... it felt so very fitting. I couldn't help but smile.

On Percy: Wow. I really wasn't expecting him to show. It made me so happy. The family was whole again, no matter how short-lived it proved to be. And I just... I think they deserved that moment, y'know? I'm also really glad it wasn't him to die. That would've been just so... cheap. He evolved for a reason, after all.

On Neville: Dude. When he first got those points for being brave... I was, like, whatever. It barely registered. I never dug Neville. Never cared for his character because he was weak by comparison. But the truth... it shone through this book, didn't it? I've never felt such a turnaround about a single character as I felt when Neville finally made an appearance. I mean, I knew he was sort of peripherally in the "group" but to take on leadership with Luna and Ginny-- brilliant. And he... the snake! Yes! God, I was so happy... to have Harry pass the responsibility on. And when he pulled the sword. Man. I thought of back in Book 2 and how that affirmed Harry's belief that he belonged in Gryffindor. Not saying Neville needed that but, y'know. It certainly couldn't have hurt any. Also, the best thing in the epilogue (and possibly only part I cared for) was Professor Longbottom of Herbology.

On Neville's Gran: That old lady rules. I think I love her. Everything everyone went through... to see her proud of her grandson... it must've been so wonderful for her. Seriously, I never liked her but she... she prove herself, didn't she?

On Dean: Well. I certainly didn't expect him to be on the run. With Tonk's father no less. And two Goblins. So weird. Gotta give the kid credit, though. He did good for a long time. I wonder about him and Luna a bit. Not so much but he did grab her hand toward the end and... they were together a lot by default. Maybe it was just me, but I thought his reunion with Seamus was fabulous. I was really afraid he'd die. I'm so glad he didn't.

On Luna: She's always been a bit creepy, not gonna lie. But the girl... she's got such a heart in her. Her father was more questionable but she... she believed so hard. And so many bad things happened to her. I mean, just over and over... and she still believed. Still loved her friends. I think she might be my favorite character. Just for being unapologetically her and never questioning the loyalty of her friendships. I might admire her most, too. Oh and her casting in the films was absolutely wonderful, too.

On Ginny: Truthfully, I've never been much of a fan. I don't mind her, per se, I just don't care for her. I'm pleased with how she and Harry ended up, though, because I really couldn't see it going any other way. I'm content and that's the most I could've hoped for with her.

On the Hogwarts kids: Those that remained... wow. I wonder what their year was like. Sounds utterly terror-filled. I felt something like pride that they all kept fighting for Harry, though. Especially with everything going down so fast. It sounded bloody miserable, though. And they were mostly just kids... God.

But then, everything was so miserable, wasn't it? All the pain and suffering. And Harry held it all on his shoulders. That's what I love about him. I mean, seriously. Don't all teenagers feel that way. Every kid with something wrong in their life (which is by definition just about every kid), who feels like adults can't understand or nobody will ever love them or there's no point in pushing on... I mean, it's a hard fall. It's hard to grow up. (Look at me, I'm so deep.) It was so weird and cool to grow up with Harry. Because... I did. I was 12 when I read the first three books. Now, at 20, we've parted ways. That's nearly half my life there. I went from being younger than Harry to older and... yeah. Just kinda cool.</span></span>

I have more to say, I'm sure, but I'm effin' exhausted and that's all I've got for the moment. There are other opinions and they may crop up later but for now I'll just leave it there. I just hope what I've said is complete... I'm too tired to check.

I have to re-read the last few chapters, just for the joy, surpise, shock and sadness of it all. Trelawney dropping crystal balls on Death-Eaters! My G-d, it's obvious, but also utterly delightful, because it's the ONLY useful thing she could have possibly done, and probably wasn't easy for her to do, but she did it, justifying Dumbledore's support of her all those years! And the Quidditch team, which I have always loved, too. And the movie Oliver IS awesome. No less awesome are Angelina and Alicia. I'm just old enough to still feel thrilled when the quidditch scenes come on and the girls are playing with the boys and it's just no big deal. It will be interesting to see if they actually bring back all the characters and actors for the 7th film.

Seymour, I felt the same way about Dobby and his death. I thought the books would have been better without those annoying house-elves, particularly Dobby. But his death and Harry's response to it was great.

I did feel that a few of the deaths were gratuitous. Mad-Eye's dead. Oh dear. Hedwig is dead. Two seconds later Hedwig who? And Lupin and Tonks. Just added to the list of the dead.

I don't think everyone needed a death scene. Some of the deaths packed an emotional punch, Dobby's and Fred's. But the others seemed too matter of factly.

Well, although SPEW got a little old after awhile and I just wanted to slap Hermione, I think that the idea of house elves (and later centaurs and goblins) did give an interesting insight into the idea of some wizards feeling a superiority over their fellow magical beings, some of whom were in their own ways more powerful than many of the wizards themselves.

It made a nice comparison between how the old wizarding families especially treated their servants, and how some of our real wealthy class view the working class.

Mind you, I wouldn't have wanted Dobby to appear in every book, but still, it did offer some nice moments.

I also thought Dobby’s death was very powerful, but it was Harry digging the grave that was really the powerful scene. It was so packed with raw emotion and you could feel Harry changing there. It was obvious it wasn’t just Dobby being buried, and Harry finally grew up in that chapter.

Cali, love your comments. So many echo my own, especially the reappearance of the Quidditch team. I won’t try to match you

I actually love Ginny to death and wanted her to be with Harry since I read the second book. But I like how the played down her role and let Harry focus on being the Harry that must shoulder the problems of the world.

Loved the Neville scenes, and the final time we see him, with the Sword of Gryffindor at his table was when I finally teared up for Neville. I did think of both Bevis and Matlock, who I know are fellow Neville fans.

I said it in the other thread, but when Harry reveals to Voldemort and the others that he’s still alive—man, what a fantastic scene. I was nearly cheering in my seat! And then: “you never learn, do you Riddle?” That line pretty much was the final turn of the tide—you just knew it was over, and the boy who lived would finally destroy he-who-must-not-be-named.

I really liked how this book was more about Dumbledore than any of the others, now that he was no longer with them.

I was certain Hagrid might bite it, but at the end, I feared for him more than ever, because there was a sense (maybe in my own head) that Rowling kept him with Harry at his most vulnerable, because Hagrid was the first person to befriend Harry, and we had come full circle. Just like Hagird carried Harry into Hogwarts the first time, he did it again in what seemed like his last, and it felt very powerful. I generally find Hagrid slightly annoying and his conversations are viewed like the students themselves, but here, I desperately wanted the lovable half-giant to live, which surprised me.

Lupin was always my favorite of the adults, and his death was heart-breaking. But the way it showed full well the sadness of war and its non-flashy style was very profound. It was sad for me to see him and Tonks die.

Can’t wait to reread and catch more little tidbits!

In the interview on Dateline, JK Rowling said that she had thought about killing Hagrid, but the scene of Hagrid carrying the "dead" Harry was too powerful not to have.

The thing I liked about this book is the fact that it just never stops.

Harry leavs Privet Drive and boom!, he's attacked.

Harry's at the wedding, and boom!, another attack.

They're at the pub, and boom!, another attack.

Although some parts moved a little slower than others, there was just this epic feel the book, where you were always just on the edge of your seat.

And the deaths were so much more real than in past books. These weren't just peripheral characters who showed up once, like Amelia Bones. These were all (or mostly) characters that you have seen throughout the books, and those deaths hit so much harder than some of the previous ones.

The thing that I find funny is that now that the movie actors are all old enough and are so mixed into my perception of the world of Harry Potter, as I was reading the book I was actually imagining them in my mind's eye. I saw Maggie Smith commanding the enchanted suits of armor to defend the castle. I saw Tom Felton going after Daniel Radcliffe to get his wand back. And of course, Julie Walters telling Helena Bonham Carter to get away from her daughter. It lends new life to the books, and really made it all seem so much more real.

If I'd have known that there would be so many spoilers here then it would have saved me having to steal my daughters book off of her when she was half way through! And it would have saved me 600 pages of reading ...

But seriously folks - good book.
No great surprises in how it ended, really. But a few surprises along the way.
And a riveting good read.

I must admit that when Dobbie died I did think "Now why the **** couldn't Lucas have had the cojones to do that to Jar Jar?"

And I can only echo the sentiments posted elsewhere here - good old Neville! I knew he was going to have an important role, even though he wasn't in it enough. With a bit of luck they'll show his misdeeds in the film.