Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION The Anywhere Machine Bullying - The Next Generation

For the past year or so my eldest daughter has been, on and off, the object of a bullying campaign at school. These days it's mostly resolved, although she still gets slagged off by the kids who haven't encountered acne yet.

Or so I thought.

To set the scene a little, my daughters eleven twelve years old, and in primary seven.
For those not used to the British schooling system, that means that they are at the top of the primary school ladder, and think that they rule the universe, not just the playground. They'll find out differently when they find themselves at the bottom of the secondary school ladder next year. ( I realise that after summer things will partly resolve themselves, because they will not be allowed to be in the same class.)

It turns out that the 'ringleader', a spoilt little princess, has her own website (with lots of pictures of Paris Hilton and Playboy logos - tells you a lot). In a page dedicated to school (titled ~~wats happenin at school) writes -

"latest gossip at school!!
~~~XxX

well at school our project
is living an dgrowing how
minky is that it was so
awwwwwwful!!!well we
have alot of fights at
[name removed by GoNE] school i had a
fight with this spotty
freak called [name removed by GoNE] at
school an di pulled a big
chunk of hair out an di
gave her a bitch slap!!!!
she definetely deserved it"

Bad spelling etc. left in intentionally.

I left the bit in about Living and Growing because it shows that this is recent (only started the project about 4 weeks ago). And, to put things in context, she couldn't bitch slap her way out of a thin wet paper bag.
But has in the past ganged up on my daughter with her cronies. (Brave little girl stood up to five of them at one point, but it's kind of difficult when the whole school is shouting You Suck! Thankfully the school made a big difference here, and people aren't actually afraid to be her friend any more.)

I think the start of it was that "princess' " ex boyfriend (dumped due to peer pressure apparently) asked my daughter out the day after she had dumped him. Possibly also that my daughter isn't part of her clique, and doesn't accept the commonly held fact that the sun revolves around her.

Now, I realise that in the grand scheme of things e.g. drug abuse, gun running, this isn't a big thing. But it's a continuation of nonsense (mostly verbal, but some physical too) that we thought was finished with.
And it's happening to my daughter. So I'm bound to be protective.

If my daughter was the instigator then her website would be closed down and her computer would be taken away indefinitely - for a kick off.

This situation has been reported to the school, which I'm sure will not want their name brought into disrepute, 'cos it's actually a bloody good primary school (even if you don't necessarily believe their own PR).

I believe that the school are planning to speak to her parents and recommend she tidy up the site, mentioning the possibility of civil action. But they're on new ground. Public humiliation and intimidation through world wide web, even if it mentions the school, is an unknown territory for them too.

But what can they actually do?
What are the laws (British / International, or even another countries) governing what can and can't be said on a website?

Just about her whole year have seen the site, and it was one of her friends that brought it to her attention.
Quite a few of the princess' coven seem to be frequent visitors.

From my point of view it's unfortunate that we don't have public flogging in this country.
Not least because it might teach her how to use capital letters and punctuation.

Our main concern is, of course, for my daughter. We don't want to take civil action (even if it's a possibility) because we don't want to drag her through more sh*t, because I feel that she's been through enough. But nor can we let the scheming little princess away with it.

Any suggestions \ recommendations \ warnings?

'Cos I'm absolutely furious about the whole situation.

Numf, that's a pretty horendous situation. I'm not sure what the legal side of things are and such but I can ask Chris (secondary school teacher but the same rules probably apply) if you like. I know in the past they've had stuff on websites about teachers that have ended up with the police involved but just off the top of my head and without any real legal knowledge I would think that posting something like that on a website would constitue an admission of assault if you wanted to take it that far. I don't know how that works when minors are involved and it'd probably be best to see what the school can do first (bearing in mind that outside school grounds they're fairly limited and even then there's only so much they can do legally) but like I say I can ask Chris about it if you want. He's head of year/acting deputy so he's involved a fair bit with the police and social services if they have any problems with their kids so he may know what the best course of action is.

Oh, and the fact that her spelling and grammar is so bloody atrocious is enough reason to flog her in my book.

One aspect to this as well, aside from whatever actions/sanctions you wish to take against the bully, I would suggest making sure your daughter (brave kid) understands as well that sometimes you just have to tolerate bad situations - that regardless of whether or not any of these plans sees fruition, she be able to accept even if the bully ends up getting away with it and find a way to not let it get to her.

(hm, will there be floggings for run-on sentences?)

Numf El,

I am not familar with the British legal system, so take this with a whole bag of salt. On what you posted from this girl's web site, I don't think you can do anything legally to shut it down. That might be different if she actually threatens physical harm.

Did she actually slap your daughter (aka the bitch slap)?

One thing I would suggest is that you request from the school that you be there for any meetings with princess' parents. And come with the print out from their daughter's web site.

Numf, this isn't the most popular answer...

Ignore her. Tell your daughter to ignore her and move on. The world is full of bad press, rumour mongering, gossip, and opinionated princesses. This little lady has the right to express her ideas, no matter how coloured they may be.

Your daughter is bound to have friends of her own, and they will stand by her or not depending on the strength of their character. It's a tough learning experience but she'll be the better for it.

You can personally address her parents, but let's face it- if she's able to post this stuff now, she'll only get meaner and trickier when called on it.

Sorry, mate.

I have to disagree with you, CJ.

Telling his daughter to ignore it does nothing to help the situation. It does sound like Numf has talked to his daughter(s) about this. Working out ways to address the situation (part of which can include ignoring some of the stuff) would be better, in my humble opinion.

Unless she's incredibly rich and/or smart enough to own a server (which from her grammer I highly doubt), then she is using someone else's server and they can remove her website or they can be held liable for its content.

My advice (about the website at least) is to have it shut down. Use this tool to locate the owners of the server her site/blog is on - http://www.betterwhois.com/

When you find the server name, contact them and explain your circumstance. They should remove her site for a violation of their rules.

(And BTW a server is different from an ISP. A server is the computer that a website [such as this one and her hatefest] resides upon and is accessed by the Net. An ISP is the service you personally pay for to access the Net.)

Numf.

Sorry to hear about this situation. I know how protective something like this makes you. My daughter had a spell of bullying at school, leading to an assault on the way home. The school was pretty poor in my opinion, they separated the two for awhile but left them in the same populations, (There are three populations in the secondary school) so they saw each other every day and eventually the school put the bully back into the class with my bairn.

We actually went to the police because the assault was witnessed by a number of kids. And that seemed to sort things out.

Confronting the Kids parents (with the evidence) might work but it might not as the princess’s parents are likely to be totally unable to see that there little darling can do anything wrong and will (as you do for yours) want to defend her against outsiders.

I still think you need to pursue it. If she gets away unchallenged then she will think she is untouchable. I’m not sure what in practical terms you can do, but as long as your daughter knows you love her, and that she needs to rely on her true friends to help her through. We can say it will get better as she gets older and that popularity is not the be all and end all but she probably wont believe us.

Let us know how your daughter does Numf.

Darden

Best of luck to your daughter. When I was her age, I went through something quite similar, and actually had my arm broken in a fight. The school did nothing, and the next day when I walked in with my arm in a cast, the whole room laughed at me. Your daughter has already received a lot more in the way of satisfaction than I ever did, but that doesn't mean it's enough. I'm no expert on this, but my advice is to keep pushing--if the school can't help you, there's always the police, or a lawyer, or (as stated above) the ISP. I hope it works out okay.

"find a way to not let it get to her"

As someone who was bullied back in my school days-- as well as by SEVERAL individuals in the work place over the years since-- the above advice does not work.

In at least 2 instances in the workplace, I look back and feel that filing formal complaints would have been a good start. Doing nothing-- trying to ignore "people" like that (quotations marks on purpose) only gives them freedom to continue.

Right here in my own neighborhood, a teenage girl caused me almost a YEAR of trouble by getting a growing crowd of her friends & admirers (including ADULTS, who, you'd think, would know better) to harrass me, vandalize my property, spread rumors that I was a racist. It took 3 visits by the police to her parents before it finally stopped-- and even then, many months went by before some of her friends "got the message".


I suggest pursueing whatever means available and necessary. Last week I was slapped with a completely absurd and uncalled-for traffic ticket (while I was going 5 MPH). The police in the town in happened have a rep for being Nazi-like bullies that goes back decades. Rather than fight the ticket (as I suspect their court system is equally corrupt) I've written letters to local governments, the news media, and the State Governor-- so far. I may not have it in me to fight personally-- but my hope is I can inspire someone else to step in and put a STOP to this ongoing abuse of power.

Go to war. Its what I usually do, although that sometimes doesn't end well. I can understand why you're furious...hell, even reading it makes me mad.

Little bullies sometimes seem to get their own medicine sooner or later, but that's hardly good reasoning for the here and now...

Sorry buddy, here's a for your daughter

I agree with Cobie, but I'd like to add that keeping cool and maintaining dignity and class will serve you well.

I'm very lucky because I haven't had to deal with this type of thing, to this extent, with any of my 3 kids. However, we have had to deal with smaller issues/disputes. My wife or I have always made our opinions and presence known whenever something does come up.

Being your child's best ally is the most important thing. "Soft place to fall" and all that!

Wow. Good advice from Nightcrawler.

I don't have kids, Numf, so I don't know what you're going through. I have to agree with Nightcrawler's advice: go to the little bitch's ISP and get her shut down that way.

My 2 sisters had a very rough preteen experience. It sure seems like preteen girls know how to be horrid across the world. If it's any consolation, they both made it through it and neither of them take a second to think about it now (they're both in their 20's.)

Seems like us guys don't have it as bad during those years.

Anyway, my heart goes out to you guys; I know your daughter knows how much you love and support her, and that truly is the most important thing.

Ghost, there is an awnser. If your daughter is as smart and decent as you are, then tell her to use her brain to find the solution. There almost always is one. Not always, some bullies only respect what they see as strength, which means physically standing up for yourself. Life isn't an afterschool special. But it sounds like that isn't the case in your situation.

I'm willing to bet that even if your daughter can't "win", she can force a stalemate of some kind, because the lil' princess probably has some real dirt out there.

If your daughter got asked out by her ex, then odds are your daughter is a lot more liked than she thinks. She probably has a lot more friends than she thinks. And there are probably more people like her that have been done dirt by lil' princess.

I know it isn't easy, but examine the situation as if you and she are not involved, and find the root of the problem with the girl. This will give you your fulcrum. And with enough leverage, you can move mountains.

Violence, dispite what people say, is "a" solution, it's just not necessarily the "best" solution.

Find the right fulcrum. You solution will spring from that.

Hmmm. Let me be more direct. I 'broke' an enemy by finding ways to aid, without expecting anything back from, his friends. It took a little while, i didn't play it up as a big thing, and before long all his 'friends' thought he was an asshole. They may not have become 'my' friends, but the were really fed up with their ahole buddy. they just drifted away and the guy wound up a lot more lonely than i did. I was used to being alone, it didn't bother me. His 'friends' was his power base.

Without them, he was just another chump.

Right now at work, i have someone that wants to pee on everyone's leg to establish dominance. However, i am nice, polite, and helpful to whomever i think needs it at work. It cuts his legs right out from under him. He honestly doesn't know what to do about it, and it is trememdously fun to watch him dither over it.

Just a suggestion.

Many thanks to everyone who has posted here.
Thanks for the support and the suggestions. And all your kind thoughts and wishes.

As of yesterday afternoon the offending part (as quoted in my original post) has been removed from the website. I'll have to, at some future point, go back in and have a good rummage around just to make sure it's not been moved elsewhere /put back in.

I have a copy of the page from yesterday morning, pre-removal, just in case there is proof required. A friend of mine is apparently able to go in to the page and find all sorts of behind the scenes details if necessary.

Gary - thanks for that link. I don't need it at the moment, but if things fire up again I may well.

A few of the other mothers that my wife knows have been absolutely mortified to find out about the site, and at least one girl has been told in no uncertain terms not to go near the nasty little ****.

We'll have to wait and see if there's any come back at school today, or in the weeks coming up to the end of term.

I have yet to hear back from my wife, but I believe that she was going to get back in touch with the school today and tell them in no uncertain terms that "this campaign stops NOW!"

I'll keep you informed of any progress.