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Real ID
#554680 05/08/05 08:20 PM
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So... how many of you realise you'll soon be showing your 'papers' to jackbooted Homeland Security guys in 3 years time?

And I hope your kids enjoy the totalitarian state that you are letting your senators create with all this PATRIOT Act crapola and its numerous redheaded stepchildren.

Eh... but what am I talking about? I come from a country that doesn't even have a democratically protected right to free speech... wink

So I'll shut up now.

But Americans on the website might want to check this website out. smile The Unreal ID webpage

Peace Out, Noogies... StarBoy


Wayne@OZ
Re: Real ID
#554681 05/09/05 01:21 AM
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It all went over the cliff long ago. frown

The only hope if that the whole system will bog down with bureaucracy and uncontrolled expense - like Canada's gun registration.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Real ID
#554682 05/09/05 02:58 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Fat Cramer:
It all went over the cliff long ago. frown

The only hope if that the whole system will bog down with bureaucracy and uncontrolled expense - like Canada's gun registration.
lol yup THAT was/is a HUGE waste of money.

Re: Real ID
#554683 05/12/05 03:42 AM
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Two words sum up "Real ID," signed into law yesterday: internal passports. Just like the Soviets used to make.

This federal-compliant ID also involves the linking of all state driver's license databases, to provide a single searchable location for all police and other authorities to use. (The final bill postpones it, but proclaims it as a goal. It's being agitated for right now, though, at the Injustice and Fatherland Insecurity departments, just like the Son of "Patriot Act." They'll soon get it.)

And such a database is also a large, convenient target for venal employees, and crackers or identity thieves, to utterly abuse.

The U.S. has never had anything approaching the national coordination of databases required for instant verification of personal details. Even credit scores are divvied up among three major national credit bureaus. Now one database touching on nearly every inhabitant of the country (all who are legally here, and even most who are not) will be put together.

That allows for internal checkpoints, nowhere near nor rationalized by national borders, for police to demand "your (electronic) papers." For supposed national security. For anti-terrorism. For anti-drugs. For any damn reason they want, including merely creating a general climate of intimidation. All of these rationales have been floated in the media since Nine Eleven.

You could now drive from Los Angeles to New York without ever being stopped by authorities, assuming you don't visibly break traffic laws. In just three years, we can no longer assume that'll be the case. Any police officer will have the power to stop you for any reason or no reason, to plug your card's readable stripe into the master database, and to take you away to preventive detention without warning, counsel, or legal rights. Oh, and they can and will seize your car, too.

It's all legally in place, either by statute or from Supreme Court cowardice about the plain meaning of the Constitution. They're just waiting for the nerve -- or the demonstrated inertia of the American sheeple -- to carry it out.

Re: Real ID
#554684 05/13/05 12:56 AM
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Listen to Greybird. Grey is your friend. smile


Wayne@OZ
Re: Real ID
#554685 05/14/05 12:16 AM
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You're very kind, Wayne. Do, though, follow his link above to the UnRealID site, for much more information about what's involved and ideas on what you can still do.

This atrocious attack on our freedom and privacy is open to a host of legal challenges, from the ACLU and many others. Including the 50 state governors, who are less being principled about its tyranny than being pissed off at billions of dollars in unreimbursed costs to comply. It ain't anywhere near over yet.

Re: Real ID
#554686 05/14/05 12:42 AM
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And similar national ID/linked database bills are underway in many other fine democracies.

Next on the agenda: Financial Lockdown!


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Real ID
#554687 05/20/05 07:03 PM
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Next up:

we're changing the presidential theme song to "Heil to the Chief"

I gotta get out of this madhouse.


The childhood friend Exnihil never had.
Re: Real ID
#554688 05/25/05 07:00 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Fat Cramer:
And similar national ID/linked database bills are underway in many other fine democracies.

Next on the agenda: Financial Lockdown!
today on bbc.com:


Peculiarly British identity cards
By Barnaby Mason
UK affairs analyst

Tony Blair's government, re-elected this month with a sharply reduced majority, is making a new attempt to get one of its most controversial pieces of legislation through parliament: the introduction of a national identity card.

The identity cards bill is a battleground in a wider struggle between the defenders of civil liberties and what they see as an increasingly authoritarian government.

It is only one element in a huge programme of security and crime legislation scheduled for the next 18 months.

Two issues are most commonly cited in official justification. According to the Home Secretary (Interior Minister), Charles Clarke: "ID cards will help tackle illegal immigration as well as support the work of the law enforcement agencies in tackling the ever present threat of terrorism."

But the head of the civil rights group Liberty, Shami Chakrabarti, described the government's programme as: "More tough talk and bad law... revealing a chronic lack of respect for our democratic traditions."

The argument over identity cards may strike many foreign observers as peculiar, especially in continental Europe where they are long established.

US distrust

The French embassy in London seemed bemused at being asked whether anybody in France objected to identity cards. They were an accepted fact of life and they allowed you to travel in other European Union countries without a passport - that was the message.


In Germany, everyone has to carry an ID card from the age of 16. A German diplomat told me: "Nobody thinks about it, nobody questions it... if you're in trouble, you just show it... we don't mind giving information if it's necessary."

A more marked distrust of government intrusion is evident in the United States, which like Britain has no nationwide system of identity cards.

People asked for ID will typically produce a driving licence. And a national identity card has not figured among the security measures introduced by the Bush administration since the attacks of 11 September 2001.

In Britain, an opinion poll suggested that 80% of people supported the introduction of ID cards. But opposition is being voiced on multiple grounds.

The traditional objection of the free-born Englishman, as he would see himself, is summed up in the sentence: "Why should I have to prove who I am?"

That may seem a little incongruous in a country with an estimated 4m closed-circuit cameras monitoring the population. But the independent Information Commissioner, Richard Thomas, recently highlighted the dangers of the state collecting too much information about its citizens.

Privacy issues

Mr Thomas said the phenomenon had "a strong continental European flavour", citing the example of communist east Europe and fascist Spain in the 20th century.

The government knows it faces another rebellion against the identity card bill among its own supporters.

The veteran Labour member of parliament, Gwyneth Dunwoody, said she was greatly disturbed, since "the history of police forces or governments holding every element or information about people's lives is that... they are used in some instances by governments for the worst possible reasons".

The bill limits the information that can be held on the ID card data base, the National Identity Register, to relatively few items - notably, name, date and place of birth, address, nationality, immigration status and physical characteristics.


New legislation would be needed to extend the list - for example to financial and medical information, employment history or criminal records.

The same would apply before any move to make identity cards compulsory. Attempting further reassurance, the government emphasises that in any event people would not have to carry one with them.

But every official justification meets objections from civil rights campaigners and others.

Blair's legacy

On fighting terrorism, they say that terrorists either have legitimate identification documents or can forge them; the problem is knowing who is planning an attack. The government has given no proper explanation of how ID cards will help.

On immigration, the critics say ID cards would be of no use in tracking down illegal immigrants or failed asylum seekers - except in a police state carrying out repeated identity checks on the whole population.

On fraudulent claims for welfare benefits, they argue that in nearly all cases people are lying about their health or economic circumstances, not their identity.

And so on.

Then there are practical objections about the cost and feasibility of another huge computerisation project, given a recent history of near fiascos in the public sector.

Richard Thomas complained of a lack of clarity, with the government changing its line about the exact purpose of identity cards. And one information technology consultant said that having no clearly set objective was a recipe for disaster.

"I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole," the consultant said, "because the business requirement hasn't been defined and they're bound to change it along the way."

What is clear, though, is that for Tony Blair the introduction of identity cards is a key part of establishing his political legacy before he steps down as prime minister. Cynics might say that is the real business requirement.


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/4578711.stm

Published: 2005/05/25 12:54:31 GMT

© BBC MMV


The childhood friend Exnihil never had.
Re: Real ID
#554689 05/25/05 07:42 AM
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Once again we creep closer to a country that would be virtually unrecognizable to our great-grandparents.


The only consistent feature of all of your dissatisfying relationships is you.

Don't judge me!
Re: Real ID
#554690 05/25/05 07:53 AM
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i dont really understand the problem with ID books. In south africa we apply for ours when we are 16, it's like the most exciting thing cause then you're closer to being an "adult". It's one step up from a birth certificate.

i prefer to carry my id book with me than to carry my passport, i've always been told that my passport is to be treated like gold, so that stays at home, and the ID book stays in the bag.


I might live on the butt end of the world, but I get to see the days before anyone else.... mwaahahahahahaha

(I'm no good at evil laughing)
Re: Real ID
#554691 05/25/05 08:14 PM
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More on PATRIOT III: Son of PATRIOT can be found here: The Electronic Frontier Foundation ...

As Donna at BoingBoing (www.boingboing.net) sez: "If this bill passes, the FBI could use special new 'administrative' subpoenas to get anything from anyone -- Internet logs and emails from your Internet service provider, health records from your doctor, financial information from your bank -- *without* having to go to a judge first. That's a power so vast, Congress refused to include in the original PATRIOT Act in the immediate aftermath of the 9/11 terrorist attack.

If you are a resident of Kansas, Utah, Ohio, Missouri, Maine, Nebraska, Georgia, Virginia, West Virginia, Michigan, California, Oregon, Indiana, Maryland, or New Jersey, your senator is on the committee reviewing this bill in a closed session on Thursday. Don't let it get out committee. Write your senator to oppose the bill today!"

Good Luck, guys... smile


Wayne@OZ
Re: Real ID
#554692 05/25/05 08:30 PM
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Great. Whorin' Snatch is on the committee. He'll brow beat every other senator there until they give in and pass it.

Re: Real ID
#554693 05/25/05 08:59 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Karie:
i dont really understand the problem with ID books. In south africa we apply for ours when we are 16,
Spoken like a person from a country that's always had national ID cards.

True in most countries that's the way it is. My parents are of Chinese birth and can't understand why we don't have ID cards here in Canada. And yes there's currently a study of it underway.

The fact is in North America we've never had national ID cards and I hope we never do. A central registry of every law-abiding citizen is not only a waste of money but an onerous invasion of our rights.

It takes away from the concept that no matter the mistakes we make in life, we can start again in a place of our choosing not the government's. The very reason people came to America to begin with dammit.

So long as we uphold the laws of our societies, we should not be required to inform, nor seek the consent of the government as to how live our lives as we choose.

ID cards are a slippery slope, what goes on them, racial heritage, genetic predispositions, IQ? OH Hell forget the cards just inject your citizens with RFID tags like they were a herd of cattle. I bet you I can rationalize any of those and many more. Will they then tell us where we can work or live? Remember under a former government, South Africa's ID cards were used for less than noble purposes.

I'm not saying that the current US or Canadian govt would have anything malicious planned for us but will anyone tell me that now and for all time the US or Canadian government will never use a registry of every person in their country for a immoral/harmful purpose. I don't think the government should ask us to make that leap of faith.

Fight for our freedoms, our birthright and for the things that made and keep our countries strong.


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