Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION The Anywhere Machine I see London, I see France...

Hey folks, I'm heading off to London and Paris next week (on the most last-minute trip ever booked) for vacation with my brother and I was going to see if any Legionworlders had recommendations for either city? I was a thinking of:
Conducting a mini 'DaVinci Code' tour of Paris
Visiting the artists in Monmarte near Sacre Coeur (which is apparently made out of Legos:
http://people.thirteen.net/~eric/travel/oct2000/day2/minifrance4.html)
Shopping for French electronica at FNAC
Checking out a musical in the London West End
Discerning modern art at the Tate Modern Museum
Taking a ride on that ginormous ferris wheel the London Eye (on the advice of Ultra Matt)
Taking pictures of those immobile fuzzy-hatted guards
Reenacting the entire opening musical sequence of Austin Powers at Picadilly Circus
Eating Nutella crepes and fish & chips (separately)
Perusing the racks of Forbidden Planet and the Album comic book store in their respective countries
Drinking a lot

What else would you recommend I try to do/see? Marry a royal? Get slapped by a Frenchman?

I enjoyed the Tower of London tour

I'm not really a fan of London (too big, too dirty, too confusing and the people are too... well, maybe not rude, but certainly don't have much time for anyone else. Actually, no, they are rude. Living in the North you come to realise that quickly. Not that I ever really liked London even before I moved up here. Anyhoo...) but depending on what you like there are some things that you really should take the chance to see (although it depends on how much time you have of course).

Walk along the Thames (once the dirtiest river in Europe, now... not quite as dirty) because even if you don't actually go in's well worth seeing things like the Globe, the National Theatre (which is 60s and blocky conrete but dammit I like it) and, especially, the Tate Modern which is a converted power station. If nothing else it's worth going into the Tate Modern just to see the Turbine Hall which is *vast*. Sometimes they just have exhbitions in it (which is a bit of a waste) but when we first went they had put mirrors all over the roof (which is at least a few stories high), had a huge 'sun' at the far end of the hall and had some kind of slight mist going on which made it feel like you had just walked into a summer sunrise with the mist still lingering, and then you looked up and saw incredibly high above you little people reflected in the sky and then you saw yourself there. Just fantastic. You might be lucky and get something like that again, but it's worth checking their website to see what's on. If you like modern art though the rest of the gallery is worth seeing too.

Talking of art it's worth bearing in mind that in the UK all publically owned museums and galleries are free for entry (although obviously donations are welcome and most of them have temporary exhibitions that you do have to pay for). I think about teh only major museum in London that isn't free is the Science and Industry museum, but I might be wrong about that. If you do go the Science and Industry museum though be prepared to queue for quite a while if you get there at opening time because especially at the weekends it gets busy. It's so vast though it's never too heaving. Do try and go in the Earth Sciences entrance though because the huge escalator going through a big metal world is great.

The British Museum is stunning if you like history (and enormous. I've been loads of times and have still only just scratched the surface of it). The National Gallery and the Portrait Gallery are both worth visiting too, but in a way have so much stuff that you kind of get a bit numb to it after a while. The (regular) Tate should be worth seeing too, although I've not been since they split the collection into the Modern and the regular Tate so I'm not sure what's there.

Unless you want to be really touristy and want to queue for hours and hours then don't bother with the Tower of London and the crown jewels or Madame Tussauds. The zoo is meant to be nice but I've never been.

Go see a show (there are some very good ones, although it's much the same as in New York at the moment minus the really good shows like Wicked and Avenue Q and Hairspray) and have a wander round Covent Garden, especially during the late afternoon or early evening when you'll find all kinds of bizarre buskers. Don't bother eating round there though. All the restaurants are extortionate in price, packed to the rafters and the food is invariably horribly over-priced and generally quite horrible. There are much better places further out.

Speaking of actually, make sure you make use of the Tube. I know it gets a bad rap a lot of the time but believe me London is *not* a compact city and if you don't have days to waste just walking miles from one site to another then use the Tube or the buses. They're relativly easy, you can get cheap travel cards and even though they do get busy if you don't you'll either die from exhaustion or end up paying a fortune in taxi fares.

Paris I love but haven't been as often. Musee D'Orsee is an absolute must in my book, but I do love my Impressionists, and the Louvre is worth a visit, although like the British Museum it's so big and confusing that you're alm ost certainly going to miss most of the collection. Go up the towers of Notra Dame for a great view of the city. Don't bother with Sacre Cour though. It's a bit garish and very over-rated. Pose outside the Moulin Rouge. Try and find the... ooh, I think it's called the Pantheon. It's down some back street and isn't on most of tourist maps but it's a building to commemorate the great men of France and has this brilliant pendulum that works as a clock that has to be seen to be believed. Also have a night boat trip on the Seine. It's touristy but fun, and you get to see the test statue of the Statue of Liberty which is exaclty the same but teeny. He he.

Basically for both cities what I'd say is what i say for almost every big city: there is almost certianly too much too see in one trip, so don't try. Pick what you really want to see or do and just spend your time doing that. If you love the city you can always come back and do what you missed the first time.

Three things you have to do:

1.The Tower of London: Yes, it's touristy but I thought it was worth the trouble.

2.The British Museum: My favorite. Where the Rosetta Stone is kept.

3.Jerry Springer: The Opera: Or, if it's not playing, any other play in London. Trust me, there'll be a lot to choose from.

I'm not certain but I think Jerry Springer just finished. If not it's due to soon and is then touring the UK. But like Green Lad says if it has finished you'll find something else. Don't just look in the West End though because the National and the Globe are both excellent and there are a lot of smaller theatres slightly away from the West End (which is mostly big budget musicals) that you might miss otherwise. Same thing as New York and Broadway really, only even more so because the West End theatres and producers take even fewer chances than they do in NY.

I can’t talk about Paris as I have never been, but I agree with a lot of what Bevis says about the size, dirt and cost of a lot of London. The people can be rude and are certainly in a mega hurry everywhere but that may just be big city life for you. Using the tube is probably the best way around as every major tourist attraction has a station near it.

Even if you don’t go in, a trip to the Tower and Tower Bridge is a great photo opportunity. From there you can take a ferry ride up the Thames (probably the best way to see the bridges and the Houses of Parliament). Get off at Parliament and then either head for Westminster Abbey or walk up Whitehall, past all the grand civil service offices, and a few of those guards, towards Trafalgar Square and Nelsons Column. Alternatively, if you have time a trip down the river to Greenwich to see the Cutty Sark and the National Maritime museum can be fun. I am not sure a trip to Buckingham Palace is worth it unless you time the trip to coincide with the actual changing of the guard.

Talking of the Tate Modern you can always walk across the bridge to St Paul’s Cathedral and see modern and old in one trip so to speak.

Eating can be pricy but the best thing to do is to try to avoid the obvious tourist traps like Piccadilly Circus and Soho and try local. A lot of pubs do reasonably priced meals so maybe try them rather than restaurants.

ooh, St Paul's is worth having a quick look at. It's not as big as you might think it is (not on the scale of some the really huge French cathedrals for example, or even places like Yorkminster in the UK) but it's a very nice cathedral and very calm right in the middle of one of the busiest parts of London. Unless you do a full tour of the vaults and stuff (and I think they only do those at certain times of the day) you only need a few minutes to go inside and look around and as Far says you can do it while doing the Tates.

London - London Eye - either get there when it's just opening, or else pre-book a time online (I think it comes under British Airways).
Natural History Museum / British Science Museum - right next door to each other.
Picadilly.


Paris - Eiffel Tower - cliche' but brilliant - cross over the Seine (no sneeky peaks) to the viewing gallery for the best view.
- Musee D'Orsay for a serious shit-load of brilliant Impressionist Art. Across the Seine from the L'Ouevre (go see the glass pyramid, but if you're going in sneak in the back door to save much time queueing to get in (one queue to get in the glass pyramid and then a much longer one to get tickets).
- La Defence - truly superb modern architecture.
- Notre Dame Cathedral - wander through it - closest thing ever to converting me to religion.


Lucky, lucky man - have lots of fun in both.

Do not drive a car round the Arc D'Triomphe
Do not sit in a car going round the Arc D'Triomphe
Do not sit in a vehicle going round the Arc D'Triomphe

That is all

Do not try to cross the road near the Arc D'Triumph.

In fact don't try to cross the road anywhere along the Champs Elysee. You think you've seen insane drivers before? Not until you've been to Paris you've not.

Oh, and in Paris it might be worth going out to Versailles. It's a least a half day trip because it's not so close to the centre but if you have any interest in history and architecture then it's worth seeing. If you're not in Paris a long time though it is something that's easy to miss out and not feel like you should have done it.

Is it true what they say about the French - that they aren't as friendly as other countries? Or is this just a stereotype perpetrated in some movies? ("European Vacation" in particular, where the insults are sub-titled)

Boy, it's been more than 10 years since I was in London and Paris. My best memory of that trip was a daytrip to Oxford and punting on the river that goes right by Magdalene. Probably wouldn't be as nice in January. What's most enjoyable to me about both cities, especially as an American, is that everywhere you turn you step on something famous and historic. You're walking through Westminster Abbey, you trip over something on the floor, you realize it's a burial marker, you read it, and you think, "yeah, I read that Shakespeare play about him." It blows my mind.

I'm an Anglophile, so I really enjoyed just bumming around Westminster, walking from Parliament, past Downing Street to Trafalgar Square. If you have ANY interest in ancient history, I echo the recommendation for the British Museum. The Elgin Marbles are one of the first comic books, and the action scenes are awesome!

You could pick a theme: e.g., treasures of art and history, World War II, Beatles/British Invasion, Punk, etc. and design a visit around that?

Stonehenge must be the oldest living monument in existence in Britain, yes?

Paris:
One of the best 360 views of the city is from the roof of La Samaritaine Department store (near L'Opera). Go through the cafe on the top floor to find the door to the outside.

That's all I got.

I did visit Jim Morrison's grave, which actually I quite enjoyed doing though it might seem boring. Just an opportunity to see the "life" side of Paris.

Speaking of London...what's up with that big ferris wheel? It looks awesome. What is that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Eye

The London Eye. Now I know. thanks.

The London Eye is *great* It was originally planned to only be temporary, but it proved so popular that it's there indefinately. I'm not certain but I think it's one of the biggest wheels in the world. It takes a while to go round and like Numf mentioned it's worth booking in advance but it does give you some of the best views of London you'll ever see. It's not like any other ferris wheel I've ever seen, aprtailly just because of the size, but also because rather than just having little seats they have 'pods' that are really quite big and can hold up to fifteen people or so. They've even had wedding ceremonies in them in the past.

As for the French being rude... well, to a certain extent it's an unjustified stereotype for most of the country. Syre they don't take kindly to people who don't at least try to speak the language but they're no worse than anyone else really. Paris on the other hand... I think really it's like London in that respect. The people for the most part may not be outright rude but they don't have much time for anyone. They're too busy, too concerned with their own lives to really care. Some of the service personal are awful, but that's true anywhere. The people selling tickets on the Metro are the worst, but that's a huge generalisation. Maybe it's best to expect the worst and then you'll be pleasently surprised when it's not that bad. Although that being said I'm not sure how popular Americans in France are at the moment. France and the Uk have always had a bit of a love/hate relationship so we're used to it, but you never know how people are going to react really.

Post deleted, 'cos there's an almost exact copy of the photo in the link provided previously.

another museum not to miss is the Victoria & Albert Museum, by the South Kensington tube station. It's free entry... and has some amazing old relics, paintings, old guns, swords, tons and tons of stuff. Plus it's right across the road from the Science and Natural History Museum, so you can spend like a whole day visiting the three of them.

Dont bother about going to the Cutty Sark, you pay an entrance fee to see a ship that's not exciting at all.

Royal Observatory is ok... just about telescopes and things, it's right by the Greenwich timeline, so I suppose that's it's real drawing card.

Another place to go to, Somerset House, near Temple tube station. There's three collections there, Gilbert (AMAZING), Hermitage, and Coultard (paintings done by Van Gogh, Monet, Ruebens). You'll have to pay entrance fee here though, there's a ticket to see all three collections, or individual.

I've worked at all these places, and Somerset House and The Victoria & Albert are the best. I've also worked at the Cabinet War Rooms, which is neat too. But if you want to see a great war museum, go to the Imperial War Museum.

Enjoy your trip!!! And when on the tube escalators, stand to the right... people egt quite huffy if you're standing on the wrong side

Ooh, I'd forgotten about the V&A which is a bit embaressing because it is one of my favourites of the museums in London. I also like the fact that it's collection is incredibly ecclectic, from ancient artifacts to modern fashion and stuff like that. Lots of changing exhibitions too and there's one room (possibly even a couple of rooms) which just has this collection of casts of some of the most famous statues and suchlike in the world. There's Michelangelo's David, Trajen's Column (cut up into shorter pieces so it fits into room), all kinds of stuff. IIRC it has a refit recently and I've not been since (it's a while since I went to the V&A at all) but it's worth seeing.

See that's one problem with London (even more so than Paris), there are *too many* really good galleries and museums. You really need at least half a day each to do any justice to the V&A, British Museum, National Portrait Gallery, Tate, Tate Modern, Science Museum etc. etc. etc. so you always end up missing out on something. We Brits have a bit of a reputation for haording things and nicking stuff from other countries and have had longer to do it than most so we do have rather large collections. Like I said before though what you have to do is decide what you really want to see and just aknowledge that you'll have to miss the rest. That's true to a certain extent of Paris (although as long as you do the Musee D'Orsee then you get to see the best there imho) with regards to both the art/history and the sites but even more so of London in my experience.

Course, that being said, the fact that there is so much to see and do in both cities does mean that it's very hard not to have a good time. They're both expensive and a bit grubby (although Paris sort of feels like it'd be wrong if it weren't grubby) and the people may not be the friendliest in teh world but if you just give into the tourist thing then you can't go far wrong. If you don't enjoy the first place you visit then you can pretty much guarantee the next one you will. It'll come down to personal taste but there's something for everyone in both places so it's all good.

But if you come back to the UK again remember London isn't the onyl place to come. Manchester is fantastic, Cardiff is lovely, Edinburgh is worth a visit, Glasgow and Birmingham have their charms (and their faults, but...) and that's even before you start thinking about the slightly smaller places that are equally worth visiting like York or Oxford or Bighton or Aberdeen or Port Meirion. We may be a small country by world standards but we have an awful lot to see. (Hmm... maybe I should try getting a job at the UK Tourist Board. )

Thats the Millenium Eye it was opened in 2000 and thats it really.

I used to love going to Heaven in London if your into that sort of thing.

Oh wow, you guys are awesome! Thanks for the thoughtful suggestions for both countries. I'll definitely try to check out as much as I can from what you guys suggested. The Eye and D'Orsay for sure now. I haven't been to Paris since I was a wee monkey nibbler so I'm treating it like my maiden trip there. I'll try to stop by here if I can. Take care and see you soon!

MEL/Kevin

No probs Kevin. It's always fun giving holiday advice. Especially when it's places like London and Paris where there's so much to see that you can hardly fail to have a good time.

Hey Legionworld! Having a bloody good time, left Paris and now staying in Marble Arch/Oxford area. Thanks for the advice again. Hoping to catch the Eye and the Tate Modern and the Eye tomorrow, hopefully a musical and some sights on tuesday. went to slbum comics in france which was cool and even found a star wars exhibit at the Cite museum...cheers.

have fun!