Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION The Anywhere Machine Superman Returns!

I saw it last night at one of the advanced screenings here in NYC and I loved it too!

Great performances all round, some fantastic set-pieces (especially the airplane save), wonderful music (your heart will skip a beat when you hear the title music start), a lot more humour than I expected and a story with a lot of heart.

The only thing I wasn't too happy about was a certain plot twist that I'm sure anyone who's been following internet spoilers about this film will be aware of, but despite my dislike of it I still thought it was handled very well.

But the film stands or falls on Routh's shoulders and he was more than up to the task. He's totally a Superman for a new generation and even though he was definitely channeling some Christopher Reeve in his performance he's claimed the role as his own.

Now bring on Routh and Bale in a Superman/Batman film!

Routh was great in the movie. Reeve was always a bit to forced bumbling/clumsly for me, but Routh plays it perfectly as the not too cool-akward guy but when he is Superman, he's Superman and his whole stance, posture and tone totally changes.

I dind't mind the minor plot twist. It makes sense to me and it was handled very well without being contrived.

I loved the begining credits. That gave me freaking chills.

I loved it. I did see some echoes of Reeve's performance in Routh but I was extremely happy with his performance.

The plot twist didn't bother me at all, as it made total sense to me.

Jamie

My significant other, Shawn, (sorry, but "boyfriend" is so inadequate a label) has been working on this movie for well over a year. In fact, it's kept him in LA and away from me for the last three months, so it better be good!! (I haven't seen it yet.) He is the head of Systems Administration for Frantic Films, and you can read a bit about their contribution to the movie here:
http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/superman/freepress.htm

Saw it Tuesday night, and I was thoroughly entertained! It was just awesome to see Superman back on the big screen again---it's been too long!

Routh was really excellent in the title role. At times I could swear it was Christopher Reeve's voice when he delivered certain lines. But the performance was far from a copycat of Reeve. I actually liked Routh's take on Clark a little better. His Superman was just awe-inspiring!

I think Kate Bosworth as Lois has been treated a little unfairly in reviews I've read. Basically, they say that her Lois lacks that aggressiveness that Margo Kitter and Teri Hatcher brought to Lois as a reporter. Yes, hers is a different take on the character, but it works really well with the movie's tone and with how Lois is in a different place in her life than the other two Lois's were (in a committed relationship with a child). I thought she was beautiful and appropriately conflicted in the film.

Spacey's Lex was very well-played but didn't grab me like I thought it would. I can't really put my finger on what it was. Perhaps, it was that his character wasn't more three-dimensional like we've seen him portrayed more recently on Lois & Clark, Smallville, the animated series or even the comics. Spacey was enjoyable but not as satisfying as I expected.

The secondary characters had their moments. Jimmy and Perry were appropriate for the characters. I liked Lex's girlfriend a good bit--it seems she didn't get a fair shake with some critics either. Marsden's performance helped sell the conflict Lois was feeling with her heart torn btween two men. And Lois's son was fun to watch.

There were subtle references here and there to the first two movies which helped sell this one as a sequel (Addis Ababa, "I Spent the Night with Superman", etc.). Hearing that music and some new variations on some of the themes was wonderful! And it was nice to see the crystals and the old Fortress architecture used again. How the big threat came from the crystals was very inventive.

The plot twist...hmmmm. I was waiting for a flashback that might explain it that didn't come. If this twist literally came from Superman II, I'd say there was definitely some 'splainin' to do there! I liked the twist a lot despite that, though. How it worked into giving Supes some closure at the end was very touching.

I honestly don't mind at all that the change in the Lois/Supes relationship and the plot twist go against what's been done in the comics. The Spider-man movies are great (loved the teaser trailer for 3, btw!), and they take a lot of liberties with his story. The idea here was obviously really well thought out, and it serves to give Supes's story some suspense. I always thought Lois and Supes got married a little too quickly in post-Crisis continuity anyway. I'm excited because I honestly don't know where the relationship will go in future movies!

The FX were stunning! In a movie age where we see advancements in effects all the time, it's amazing to be surprised and wowed by some comparatively simple things like a man flying and being impervious to bullets. The space shuttle rescue and the Metropolis disater were truly standout scenes.

Anyhow, I enjoyed it a lot! Can't say enough about how great it was to "believe a man can fly" again!

Well, I guess this it the thread for Superman Returns.

I just saw it. I didn't like it. There were too many homage lines (I remember three but think there was a fourth). One would have been good. Singer also re-does the Lois flying with Superman scene. Been there, seen that already. *yawn*

As far as the plot went, there were a couple of things I didn't like. Number one was the whole "Lois has a kid and is it Superman's" plot. I think that just complicated (and not in a good way) the whole "Superman took off and Lois got on with her life" angle. Pus I thought the kid was creepy. The other thing with the kid was: <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">When he shoved the piano and killed one of Luthor's thugs. That should have traumatized the kid and Lois for that matter. </span></span>

I also didn't like the return of the Kryptonian crystals. They were OK in the first movie, but please let's move on. Then: <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Luthor's plot involves using the crystals to make a land mass and he uses some Kryptonite to lace the whole structure. Then when Superman lands on it he becomes weak so that the thugs & Luthor can beat him up. But then later he is able to lift the whole thing into space (while he still has a piece of Kryptonite in his side as we later see) I thought Singer understood comic books and internal consistancy</span></span>

I do have to say that I thought Brandon Routh did an excellent job acting. All were good, except I hated the annoying Jimmy Olsen.

Oh, I did like the shuttle rescue and I did get a little emotional when the crowd started cheering for Superman.

I thought it was generally good, with the exception of a few quibbles. Both Supes and Lois seemed too young, especially in light of the "Five Years Later" angle. And, while I realize Luthor's plot was supposed to be far-fetched, it was a bit too much so for my tastes. And while Routh did a good job in the "Clark" persona as well as Superman, "Clark" was kind of wasted in the film, and completely disappeared for the last third or so.

Between this and Caroline's chocolate comment, I'm starting to doubt this is really Lightning Lad and not some Proty thing...

I saw it today -- it was good. Not great, but good and certainly enjoyable for the most part.

I have my own problems with it, first of all, the fact that Singer was too big a fan of the first two films. Some of it seemed a bit old fashioned because of it and since we know that certain things about the Superman mythos won't change, it would've been nice to really see this reinvented rather than just a follow-up to the previous franchise in terms of tone and characterization.

Lex Luthor - Again, as I had feared, Singer stuck too close to the previous films for my taste. Having Lex rebuild his fortune the way he did in the beginning of the film does nothing to show him as Superman's arch-nemesis. Having a bunch of henchmen from central casting including a ditzy moll didn't make him any more impressive (at least there was no Otis). And his big scheme was way too similar to the first film. He also has pretty much no characterization or backstory to show why he is or what he is (the Prometheus fable doesn't qualify).

The big effects scenes were really well done (I saw it on 3D IMAX which was actually a bit fuzzy and annoying at times) and there was a bunch of good emotional scenes with Lois and Clark/Supes. Routh really has an uncanny similarity to Reeve in certain scenes and he did a really good job. I wish Lois was depicted with more attitude though.

MILD SPOILERS

I agree totally.

The pre-Daily Planet seems ran a little cold, but after that, things got into gear.

Routh - fanastic! Besides channelling Reeve (especially as Clark), he really did make the part his own.

Spacey - definitely channelling Hackman. Only in a few scenes did he break out above and beyond on his own.

Bosworth - yes, she's no MK or TH, but I felt she captured the essense of post-Byrne comics Lois fairly well. I was skeptical at first; but I gave her room to do her thing, and she won me over.

supporting cast - great. Langella's Perry was a nice blend of Cooper and comics.

music - wow! I think the 70s themes are now as entrenched into the mythos as the cape.

links to I & II - stronger than I'd believed they would be, but it worked - and how.

additional observation - with the conclusion of the public "return" sequence, the audience (and not a bunch of rank and file genre geeks) cheered as loudly as the on-screen crowd, something I at least see rarely if ever in todady's hard-to-please society.

I'm going to see it again.

One plot point I was apprehensive about was the notion of Lois having a child. But I ended up not minding it as much as I thought it would.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">The notion of Superman as Lois' "baby-daddy" is still a bit weird, but I guess it's certainly modern. "I'll be around" -- talk about being a playa! She certainly can't call him up to babysit or pay any bills...</span></span>

So, did anyone else notice a missing crystal in the shot where Kitty dumped them from the chopper?

BTW, I'm not entirely buying Lex's 'continent' crap. If he killed billions, who would be around to pay for it? There would be no world economy left. I think the sole purpose of his building a kryptonite-laden continent was to have a base of operations that he could act freely from.

I have a feeling that we'll find out what happened with the other crystal in the next movie.

Jamie

SUPERMAN 5 (***Spoilers***)

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Well, as with X-MEN 3 last month, I waited until I saw the film--
TONIGHT!!-- before reading any comments on it at all. Sure glad I did.

I loved the fact that John Williams' 2 main themes were reused. I was
reminded (by contrast) of the sheer stupidity of the Joel Schumacher
films when he DIDN'T use Danny Elfman's magnificent BATMAN theme.

Now, given I had a LOT of reservations about SUPERMAN (1978)-- there
were just too many "changes" for my tastes, too many things that
struck me as "wrong" or "dumb" or "embarassing"-- I've long felt that
film worked and is loved IN SPITE of itself. SUPERMAN II was a BIT of
a let-down, after that, mostly because-- DAMMIT!!!-- Richard Donner
didn't finish what he started, and Richard Lester decided to RESHOOT
70% of the film from scratch. I don't care WHAT "problems" Donner was
having with the Salkinds-- it was unprofessional not to finish the 2nd
film before walking. SUPERMAN 3 & 4 were both HORRENDOUS
disappointments-- and for completely different reasons!!! That
said... FOR A "SEQUEL", I find it astonishing that SUPERMAN 5 (hey, I
refer to the HALLOWEEN movies the same way, it's easier to say & type)
is probably the BEST film of the series-- so far. How many #5's can
that possibly be said about? (The 6th James Bond film gets my vote
for best-ever in that series-- but a lot of people completely dismiss
that one!! That's personal tastes...)

There may be some things about this film I disagree with-- or that may
be ill-conceived-- but half of it comes from the first 2 films, so if
you don't like those, this magnifies the problems, and if you did like
those, this is a very worthy follow-up.

I watched and watched and watched, enjoying, enthralled, in
suspense... Noel Neill's cameo made me squirm (HOW LOW could Lex
SINK???), I loved Jack Larson's role as the bartender, I thought Frank
Langella LOOKED DEAD RIGHT as Perry White (as perhaps no actor before
him-- especially Jackie Cooper-- ever did) and it was interesting to
see the Gene Hackman Luthor return with a NASTIER edge. I think I
might have enjoyed #1 MORE if it had been more like this one back
then. But the FIRST moment that really did it for me was the shuttle
disaster (shades of John Byrne!). First I expected the whole thing to
crash-- NOPE! Then it looked like the plane might get fried (as the
one at the beginning of MOONRAKER did) --NOPE! Instead we got to see
Superman save 2 aircraft-- the 2nd with more difficulty than the
first. But THE moment wasn't the suspense or the thrill... it was
after it was all over, when he opened his mouth and talked said how he
hoped this wouldn't scare people out of flying... TEARS ran down my
face! THAT's SUPERMAN!!!!!

At the time it came out, #2 went into questionable territory by having
Lois find out Clark is Superman (something that NEVER happened in the
comics back then, EXCEPT in the Earth-2 stories) and SLEEP with him.
(Clearly the late-70's/early-80's-- an earlier Superman would have
MARRIED her first!) Giving Superman a SON (!!!!!) by a woman he's NOT
married to reminded me of STAR TREK II: THE WRATH OF KHAN, where we
found out Kirk had a grown son WE'D NEVER HEARD OF until that story,
by a woman referred to way back in the 2nd pilot. ("I almost married
her!") I can kinda see the parallel between Clark being adopted and
Lois' son having an adopted father. I don't recall if they actually
said anywhere in the film that Richard was supposed to be the father--
it was rather vague. If Lois knew (or at least suspected) Supes was
the father all along, it would "explain" her bitterness toward him,
NOT knowing the facts. (Of course, it could have happened sometime
after #4-- but I get the feeling a lot of people would prefer to think
the last 2 films never happened! Sort of like the 3rd & 4th BAT-films.)

I thought about the various parallels to real-world disasters... and
also noted the (to my eyes) BLATENT "tribute" to TITANIC in the way
that humongous yacht broke apart. Lex & his henchmen's BRUTALITY
seemed out of left-field, as I don't recall Luthor ever being so
physically violent in any previous incarnation. But talk about poetic
justice-- when everyone was running from the collapsing rocks, and 3
of his men got FLATTENED (!!!) I got a double-image from the film
JASON AND THE ARGONAUTS, when the bronze giant Talos collapses right
on top of Hercules' young friend. (I passed on to a pal of mine that
in Greek mythology, Herc & the other guy had been LOVERS... but in
1963, that might have seemed out of place in a Ray Harryhausen film!)

I don't know how this happened, but I got 3/4THS of the way thru the
picture before I realized Lois' boyfriend was CYLCOPS from the X-MEN
movies! He CERTAINLY got a bigger, better part here... I still think
it's a damn shame Bryan Singer couldn't have managed to do the 3rd
X-film first and THEN do this one. Ah well...

The structure of this thing was almost as unusual as #1-- almost in
reverse, as it was the last part of the film that seemed like a
separate story ("Death of Superman" tribute?) tacked on. I keep
thinking, if Supes can hear "everything", the 1st thing he should have
done after recovering was zoom into space, listen until he heard
Luthor, and then NAIL the bastard. Otherwise, it just seems like
we're left hanging for the sequel-- and having a Superman villain ON
THE LOOSE at the end of a story just isn't right. This isn't Chris
Claremont's X-MEN, after all (where nobody EVER goes to prison for
their crimes)!

One of my favorite "imaginary" stories from the 60's was "The Three
Generations Of Superman", in which Supes is an old man, has a grown
son who's taken over for him, and a young grandson-- about the age of
the kid in this picture! The differences being, the kid already has
super-powers, and the old man MARRIED his Lois. Oh well. Maybe
"Cyclops" can get fried off-camera in some sequel... (oh wait-- WRONG
movie!)





Henry


PS: Coming soon!!! SUPERMAN 6: "Stupendous Triumph of The Six
Super-Villains!" (Yeah, I KNOW that was a FLASH story, but still...!)

i'm trying to avoid reading the above posts !!

but ..... i'm SO looking forward to seeing this when it opens in the UK [ in 6 days time !! ]

i watched SUPERMAN and SUPERMAN II today, to get me in the mood !!

i also listen to the DIRECTORS COM of Superman, some really interesting points brought up by RICHARD DONNER, like how the first film was due to end, with the 3 villains escaping the Phantom Zone, after the missles explode, and then LOIS was due to die at the end of S:II, and that was when SUPERMAN was to 'turn back time' !!

i hope the RICHARD DONNER version [ or as much is as available ] finally gets released ......

Matthew.

It's a more ambivalent age, by orders of magnitude, than that of 1978 and the first fully-mounted "Superman" movie, and that kept hemming in the story. So much so that, when I saw it today, the frequent use by composer John Ottman of the "Superman Theme" / "If You Read My Mind" music of John Williams, while as potent as ever, also seemed inappropriate.

Any movie that has Perry White talking about the Topic du Jour standing for "truth, justice ... and all that" has gotten far, far away from the original mythology. No "American Way," obviously assumed in the background. No "Way," period, in any broader sense of what a community sees as its virtues. We're not seeing any strengths of national or cultural character, as tenuous and hard-to-define as those may be.

Which is why, despite an enjoyable 150 minutes (which should have been 110), and a genuinely epic depiction, I was left after several hours of reflection with a hollow, frustrating feeling. The only person showing genuine strength -- of character, with which even Kryptonian muscles ought to be directed -- is Superman. (With the partial exception of Lois Lane's beau, James Marsden making a thankless part into something resonating.)

It's almost as if "we" need him too much, and expect him to save us from our follies, rather than inspire us to avoid them. Lois's award-winning essay has its title repeated so many times that it quickly becomes evident how nobody really believes it.

I don't see it as a mere difference of style that Supes doesn't once describe himself as "a friend," as Reeve's portrayal did so memorably. Instead, to an ominous degree, it's "I'm always around." Well, yes, but that could be said about the functionaries of the Department of Homeland Security, as well.

Other elements are less clearly drawn, as well. Lex Luthor is shown, via Kevin Spacey, to be more articulate and focused, but also more of a crude sadist. Perry the editor does the job, but the real curmudgeon wouldn't appear in the Planet's ads, period, let alone free-standing paper statues. (Frank Langella had to have the one obligatory "Great Caesar's ghost" dragged out of him, and it wasn't convincing.)

Kate Bosworth creates a much more intelligent portrayal of Lois than Margot Kidder did as a scatterbrain, and that's refreshing, but her several rendezvous with Supes had no sparks of magic. And there really is no street life as context, with Metropolis being generic and self-consciously not New York, as in the earlier films.

This outing, which really does pretend that films III and IV never existed (thank the esthetic gods), eminently deserves being seen on the big screen ... but only once, I'd say. And if you don't mind ambivalence. If you see heroes and moral virtue in bolder primary colors -- and, per Routh's outfit, costume colors as well -- you're likely to be disappointed once you get back home.

A dull story told dulley in dark tones. No reason to see this on the big screen, the visuals are rare. Other than the plane save (in which everyone not strapped in should have become bug guts) there were no sustained panoramic scenes. All close cropped off angle camera to hide from showing action, something that unfortunately seems to becoming the norm (Batman Returns). The camera work is some of the worst I've ever seen. I can't recall a film in which I could see the makeup as in this one. Of all images to miss, on the first change to Superman, the shot was from just below the neck, cutting off the "S."

The same three step drama used again and again. "Wait for it" was the theme. Dramatic moment (plane falls, helicopter falls, stuff on table rattles, stuff on boat rattles, stuff on island rattles), wait for it, Yeah! (plane rises, helicopter rises, crystal spawns, superman appears, crystals spawn AND superman appears.) Again and again and again.

snore.

As mentioned in a previous post too many homage quotes/images and not enough attempt to make new but, if not for the homage quotes there would not have been a clever bit of dialogue in the whole story.

The Surprise

Added nothing. A director's ego out of control so he can say, "I did that." <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">The first time the kid uses his powers he kills. I suppose we're supposed to care but how can you, when you know it had no plot point, it was just again, Director ego.</span></span>

The Worst
They completely did not follow up on their own premises. His role was to not be the savior but to motivate the humans to their potential. He was the savior and the humans did...nothing. Yeah sure, great story telling.

Lois: ugh. A 22 year old with 14 year old manneurisms and vocalisms playing a hard bitten Mom with a five year old. She reminded me of that little teen in the Vonage commercials with the rabid fire squeeky voice.

Superman just up and leaves without even a note <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">yet he was schtooping Lois? That's not Superman. No lives were at risk, no credible reason for just leaving and let's face it, Superman would know she's pregnant.</span></span>

The Good Bits
Routh's youth did not bother as much as Lois' as he did not act young. I agree with a previous poster, in some respects better than Reeve, more of a wink. This guy played a Clark that knew he was also Superman.

Marsden, both the actor and the character. Though I thought the characters existance was a dumb plot point, he came off stand-up.

I liked it. Thought Routh, Spacey and Marsden were really good. Jimmy and Perry were perfectly cast. Lois was a little I don't know, she did have a bit of surfer girl about her. Is Quitely channelling Kate Bosworth into his All-Star Lois rendering?


Metropolis looked incredible. The Art Deco architecture and the colour pallette and tint to the film gave it a timeless quality that the earlier Superman films don't have.

I disagree about Superman not inspiring humans to their potential.

Superman did inspire at least one human to transcend her status as ditzy materialistic accessory to Lex's evil genius. I think that Kitty's belief that Superman was dead and her realization that people would die if Lex's plan succeeded led her to chuck the crystals so he couldn't try it again.

I won't comment on the deadbeat dad stuff, it's been covered. Although i'd imagine that there's probably more stuff with the kid with Clark on the cutting room floor. The scene showed parallel between the pair's apparent physical weakness. I wondered if the kid knew all-along he had superstrength and supressed it subconciously.

Good point about Kitty and I'd add that I did come out of the movie with a new appreciation for Pomeranians.

"Metropolis looked incredible. The Art Deco architecture and the colour pallette and tint to the film gave it a timeless quality that the earlier Superman films don't have."

Good point. I was reminded of this when I saw the film on TCM a few months ago (for the first time in ages). When you get to Metropolis, somehow, every frame of film SCREAMS "the 1970's". I think the film may have been dated by the time it came out! I wonder how the new one will fare, decades from now?

i'm trying to work out the best time to see this !?

and as i'm busy all day Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and i can't wait till Monday evening !!

i plan on going into work a little later on Friday [ not in till 12pm ] so i'm gonna go to the first showing at 10am very early on, but i've gotta see this film, soon ......

Matthew.

Going on the premise that this is a "follow-up" to Superman II and ignores the other two sequels, Lois shouldn't have any memory of her time with Clark/Superman. She certainly didn't remember that Clark was Supes, so why would she remember that they did the deed? (unless it all happened offscreen where Superman still concealed his identity from Lois, but that's not likely)

I just saw this movie today. I have to say, as an artist wanna-be who took animation class, I appreciated the cgi work and how the planets, and the fortress of soilitude and the cape rendering were AWESOME.
I had a hard time just watching it as a movie when Kevin SPac-err, Lex Luthor and his henchman who played in that "WhiteCastle" movie showed up, I don't think those actors were needed for the part, too much previous roles- association for me, but I thought Brandon Routh made a really good Superman(I never saw the original Superman movies so I can't compare or contrast, but to a newbie who never saw a Superman movie, he was a GOOD Superman) But I have my reservations for Lois Lane, and I liked James Marsden(but of course he's always been a favoruite actor of mine anyways)but was the Richard actor needed? And then there was the...I dunno how to do the 'spoiler' tags but those who saw the movie will know what I'm taling about when I say, 'in regards to the...plot point..was it NECESSARY?"I didn't think it was something Superman(a morally consentious and upright role model)would do and abide by, it just seemed too random and too 'hollywood' for me.And that one thing pretty much ruined the movie for me, it was just too drastic a change from the actual comic book but that's just me

The Super plot twist is nowhere as shocking in 2006 as the scene which inspired this back in 1981.


I don't know about that Drake. Superman used the power of "Super Hypnosis" on Lois at the end of Superman II. I'm pretty sure he could have selectively expunged the secret identity without making her forget the night at the Lovenest of Solitude. Its been so long since i saw it i don't remember how much she remembered

BTW i saw on the net that Warner is going to let Richard Donner re-cut Superman II for a DVD release of the movie based on the stuff they were shooting before he was fired. I have a feeling its not going to make much sense because it was far from finished when he was fired. I gather that Marlon Brando will be spliced back in though.

What was the scene that inspired the super plot twist?I'm curious about that.

Lois discovers Clark is Superman at Niagara Falls. He takes her back to the Fortress declares his love for a "mortal woman" to the Jor-El/Lara computer who tell him he must give up his powers and live as a human to be with her. He agrees is stripped of his powers and they spend the night together.

Hey Luthor remembers where the Fortress is from the final fight in that movie? Why didn't Supes kiss Lex and make him forget? You'd figure thats more dangerous than Lois knowing the Secret ID.