Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION The Anywhere Machine The Star Wars Episode III thread

I admit it, I like Star Wars. I've been reading the expanded universe and new jedi order novels over the past year or so... and with the upcoming Star Wars Episode III movie coming in the next year or two, I've been getting a little anxious. This anxiousness is part good and bad given that Lucas has made some terribly disappointing decisions in episodes one and two. Jar Jar , directing the actors in an emotionless way, trying to make the story more kid friendly at the expense of the actual story, just to name a few.

What I want to hear are your ideas for making Star Wars III an adequate bridge between episodes 2 and 4.

Here's what I would do...

The most important thing is Anakin's motivation for plunging head first into the dark side. This has got to be done right. There's going to have to be little tell tale signs that Padme picks up on that scares her enough to hide the twins from him. But I think the success of the story hinges on what pushes Anakin to finally become Darth Vader?

Here's how I would do it... Palpatine captures Padme in a way that implicates the failure of the Jedi council. He waits for Anakin to rescue her, but when Anakin arrives, Palpatine is no where around. Padme is in the clutches of Count Dooku. Dooku kills Padme with a lightsaber through the chest in front of Anakin. Of course Anakin succumbs to the hate and vengeance that is the dark side and becomes powerful enough to kill Dooku, in of course the greatest one on one lightsaber duel to date.

Once Dooku is dead Palpatine arrives to comfort and guide Anakin who now goes on his rampage to track down the Jedi who he thinks failed to protect Padme. Obi and Yoda retreat with the twins and then part for Degobah and Tatooine.

A nice easter egg moment: Han Solo should be about 6-10 years old around this time and a member of Garris Shriek's crew. I'd definitely put a little cameo in of the young Han doing what he did when he was that age. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to make it work either.

I'd also make sure that Jar Jar was killed in a most horrific way... like stumbling into the back wash of a one man fighter that just took off.

I think that is a pretty good outline for a great star wars episode III story. What would you do if you had to write this story?

Minesurfer, I like it! I'm a fan of the Star Wars series too, and I really hope the last one is done right.

I like your idea that Dooku kills Padme in front of Anakin, leading to Anakin's rampage and turning to the darkside. After that, we see the Emperor begin consoling him and pushing him to the dark-side.

All that I'd add is this final bit in the film. In the final scenes, we see Anakin put his Darth Vader armor on and become more machine than man. The Republic is on the verge of dying and the Emperor is now the emperor. Things have gone horribly wrong and the Jedi's are all dead or hiding. Then I would have them show Luke and Leia as babies, as a last beacon of hope.

And then I'd have this ending: the final moments of Luke's battle with the Emperor and Darth Vader hurling the Emperor to his death, saving Luke's life. These final moments show that although Anakin has succumb to the Dark Side in these first three movies, his dying moments allow him to become the heroic little boy he was in number one again. This could be a great way to end the movie on a more upbeat note, since Anakin redeems himself slightly in the end.

Er. Judging by 1 and 2 there ain't gonna be no one killed on screen like that! We were supposed to think he went down the dark side when he killed all those sand people (off panel) last time. Remember when we saw the jawa bodies in ep 4? That was grisly! But no smoldering remains were to be seen in the arguably much-more-relevant-to-the-overall-story episode 2!

How they're going to rescue the series now, and stop themselves putting in loads of slapstick-gags-for-the-kids is beyond me...

That's very possible.

Lucas made no secret of the fact he saw these as kids' films, though with the subject matter and ending it is odd he thought that way. Personally, I don't have a problem with the focus. The execution, that I have a problem with.

As for rescuing the series, I'm not sure Lucas feels a great need to do anything but what he wants. Yes, a lot of people have complained about the movies, but they've still bought tickets.

These were the two things I was thinking.

And I think Lucas slipped to the dark side the moment he decided to change the cantina scene and have Greedo shoot first!!

Is it really just me that thinks that the whole of the Star Wars universe is a load of rubbish?

The reason that it was good in 1977 is that no-one had ever seen anything quite like it before, and the fact that we were all in our early teens! They were made for kids, so I don't think that we can really have any complaints about GL making the "first three" episodes for kids. It's just that in the intervening years the expectations of children has changed dramatically, and GL has moved with the times - rather than re-hashing the same old stuff for the fan-boys.

Go back and watch 4 - 6 without the nostalgia head on and see if it still works. Loved it when I was 13, but I don't reckon it holds up well, even with the new bits added.
I must agree with Drake about the Greedo thing though - no need to make Han whiter than white.

It would be nice to see some acting for a change though.....

I think George has it in him, not because of Ep. 2, but Qui Gon and Darth Maul in Ep. 1 met similar fates to what I envision the previously suggested death of Padme.

I'd like to hear alternatives or speculation as to what might be done though. I'd prefer not to go down the whole Greedo/Han/who shot first?/Lucas sucks path with this thread. If that's the way the thread goes then so be it, but I like to think that there is hope for a good movie to come out of the story that is going to be Ep. 3. After reading some of the novels, especially the Timothy Zahn ones, I know there are good Star Wars stories out there waiting to be told.

I don't own the original trilogy and I hadn't seen them (outside of the original theater runs) until last year, when I did exactly what you suggested. I rented them and watched them in one sitting. The stories held my interest surprisingly well. The effects aren't up to today's standards but they didn't detract enough to take me out of the moment.

I think the difference between the original trilogies and the prequels is the presence of the Rogue character. Han really gave an affable presence that made you care about what may or may not happen to the characters. They tried to force this same presence in the prequels with Jar Jar and Threepio... and it just didn't work.

In lieu of bringing a new character in with a Rogue-ish attitude, Ep. 3 is going to sink or swim on Anakin's final plunge into the dark side. I've given one possible scenario and I think it is the most likely. I can't see Anakin foresaking everything else for anything less than the death of Padme. I don't think she can just leave him never to be seen again... if that were the case, the novel timeline would have had to deal with Grandma Padme by now. Otherwise they are looking at some tricky revisioning.

What I would like to hear are some alternatives to my scenario. I keep trying to come up with one, but I haven't had any success.

Another thing that would be cool to see is Obi Wan's decision to take lose his name and isolate himself on Tatooine (though never far from Luke of course).

Seeing a young Vader in action against the Jedi would also be awesome.

I like that Obi to Ben idea. Could be a decent story or two there in its own right.

My vision for the movie would be to have the Padme death scene happen early on. This is a calculated gamble as it may prove anti-climatic if it happens too early. I'd be willing to risk it so that the rest of the movie could be a running death battle with the young Darth Vader, Asajj Ventress, and Durge on one side and the remaining Jedi on the other side. The Jedi would be protecting the retreat of Obi Wan and Yoda with the infant twins. The final scene of the movie <cue the Empire music> would be Vader standing over the body of Mace Windu. Mace would be in two pieces and Vader would be holding Mace's lightsaber in one hand and his own red lightsaber in the other. He would be staring into space and you would be able to see the reflection of the twin suns of Tatooine in the eyepieces of his helmet.<fade the empire music>

Give the movie the pacing of the second Alien movie and sit back and enjoy the ride.

I think Padme's death will be one of the key factors in plunging Anakin to the dark side, and that we wil get to see at least part of his hunting down the Jedi.

I'm also curious if the mysteries concerning the droids will be cleared up. Why doesn't Threepio seem to have any memory of Obi-Wan, Anakin, etc. by Episode 4? And why doesn't Obi-Wan seem to remember them?

As for the droids... I just finished reading The Truce at Bakura and I am now reading Tatooine Ghost. I think its the latter book that hints about it being years since Threepio had a memory/data wash. Artoo could probably be explained the same way.

As for Obi-Wan... that's a different story. His primary droid was R-4, but I know he's had contact with Threepio and Artoo. It could just be that he never "connected" with the two main Star Wars droids, and twenty years later when he sees them again; he truely does not remember them. Or maybe all droids look alike to him.

The droid/Obi-wan memory thing is a good point though... I don't think I'd give it too much play in Episode 3, especially after the horrible use of Threepio in Episode 2.

If there's a memory wash of the droids, I'd like to see it done for some reason, such as erasing their knowledge of where the twins are hidden.

The Obi-Wan not remembering them could be simply a matter of his being misleading about the past, however.

mesah don't care now, mesah so hate current movies, mesah hope episode three never come out. Mesah so watch Serenity 20 times instead.

Actually, the memory wash was explained in Episode 4, wasn't it? When Luke and Uncle Owen got the droids, didn't Uncle Owen order the droids memory wiped so there would be no recollection/interference of their previous owners? That would sort of imply that a lot of droids got their memories wiped whenever they changed owners.

And as for Obi-Wan/Ben not remembering owning the droids ........ well ..... I suppose droids were considered tools. As such, I'm not sure I'd remember every hammer I've ever used. Certainly not one that popped back in to my life after 30+ years. Then again, that's just me.


Now, Anakin's descent to the Dark Side, I always just figured that it started with the death of his mother. We got to see the rage building up by the end of Episode 2, so it wouldn't take much to push him over the edge. Maybe this could be done simply with a flashback to the brutal murders of the sand people. Maybe somebody just pushed him too far and he snapped.

I also sort of got the feeling that Vader knew about Luke, so having his birth would make sense. But because Vader was somewhat surprised to find Luke's thoughts (in the heat of battle in "The Empire Strikes Back") "for sister", then I would think that would have to be kept from him. Maybe Anakin knows Padme is pregnant, and the boy is the first born, therefore the only one Anakin/Vader knows about.

Oh well, I've babbled on enough for one post. :-D

Vader knows Luke is his son when, between ANH and ESB, he discovers that the name of the pilot that destroyed the Death Star is "Skywalker." Good job hiding that one Obi-wan.

As for Anakin's descent to the dark side, I agree that it began with the massacre of the Tusken Raider camp. I just think that the other Jedi haven't realized it yet. My own interpretation of the necessary sequence of events is as follows:
After the clone wars, Anakin becomes increasingly close to Palpatine. At some point, the Jedi realize that Padme and Anakin are married and take some kind of action resulting from the union (probably forcing Anakin to choose between Padme and the Jedi). Anakin's reaction to such action (such as killing a Jedi or two) tips the Jedi to the fact that he's fallen to the dark side. They convince Padme to go into hiding (probably on Alderaan). Soon after she does, she discovers she's pregnant. Yoda and Obi-wan, realizing that Luke could be the salvation of the galaxy, take him to the outer rim for safekeeping (but keeping his name the same; D'oh!). Padme in hiding on Alderaan, keeps Leia long enough for Leia to later remember her (as seen in RotJ). Meanwhile, Palpatine invents some pretext that outlaws the Jedi and sends Anakin out to destroy those few that have survived the Clone Wars. About this time, Padme gives Leia to the Organa family for safekeeping and through some circumstance, dies. Anakin and Obi-wan have a final confrontation that results in Anakin suffering grievous injury and allows Obi-wan, who is unable to destroy his former apprentice, to escape into hiding. Anakin survives through the use of a mobile life-support system and takes the name Darth Vader (though he could have taken the name at any point after defying the Jedi, it's most dramatic if he takes the name when he dons the armor).

I think that it's important that Vader not know that he has any children until he realizes who Luke must be after the Battle of Yavin. I think that if Vader knew that he had kids out there somewhere, he wouldn't rest until he found them, especially if he thinks that they're in the care of his old master.

Anyway, that's how I think it has to happen. Maybe someday I'll tell you my plotline for the final three movies that Lucas will never make. Think Greek Tragedy.

That was in response to Luke's telling Owen that he'd discovered part of a message in the droid that referred to Obi-Wan. Obviously Owen feared that the droids would lead Luke to Obi-Wan. The memory wipe in question never occurred as Artoo ran away before it happened.

I think it is significant that the droids end up on Alderaan, however.

Actually, if anything, he's gone even further back to the old cliffhanger movie serials that inspired him as a kid. Those aliens who talk like Yellow Peril stereotypes from that era being just one painful example.

The special effects may be better, but there is nothing new going on in 1-3.

Go back and watch 4 - 6 without the nostalgia head on and see if it still works. [/QUOTE]

I did so a while back. 4 and 5 still hold up fine. 6 doesn't, but then I didn't like 6 much when I first saw it.

Oh well, that buggers up my theory.....

I read your situation Director Lad, and I've got to say that yours is the type of scenario that I'm looking for. Something else else alternate to Padme's death being the causal factor for Anikan's final descent into Vader. I don't know if Jedi disapproval is enough motivation for the final Anakin to Vader descent. I guess it could be, but it would take some nifty writing to make it work.

I'm a little piqued by your Greek tragedy idea for the "last" three movies. Have you read any of the novels?... are you talking about a time period between Ep. 3 and A New Hope? or are you talking about what comes after Return of the Jedi?

I'm of the mind set that Episode III may be the last Lucas driven Star Wars movie, but it is too popular of a franchise to just let it go stagnant. It may take a while, but somewhere down the road the series will be picked up again. There's just too much money to be made for Star Wars to just "go away". I would love to see the Thrawn trilogy in film form. The New Jedi Order in film would be intersting too.

My "final three movie" scenario is set after the original Zahn trilogy (which I've read, but ultimately didn't really enjoy). I hate to say it, but I've ignored most of the "Expanded Universe" material that's been released over the last 15 or so years. Suffice to say that my treatment for the final three movies starts with the death of Leia and ends with the death of Luke and Han. Along the way, Luke succumbs to the Dark Side, only to be redeemed at the end.
I think that Lucas would have to be dead for that to happen. As long as he's alive he will maintain total control over all material relating to the Star Wars universe. I wouldn't be surprised if he makes arrangements for that control to pass to someone else upon his death too. Keep in mind that at this point, 20th Century Fox is just the distributor. They don't, to my knowledge, have any ownership stake in the property.

Regarding Anakin's trip to the dark side and Padme's death, I think it'd almost be too expected. If it weren't for Lucas being a big softie, I would want to see something else turn him -- Padme's betrayal perhaps and trying to hide the children because she senses his slow downward spiral? Then he could kill her himself, which is what cements his turn to the dark side.

Btw, regarding EpIII, what do y'all think of the new baddie? That cyborg guy who was in the last animated ep (there's also some art on the Star Wars website).

You're thinking of Durge. I wasn't able to see the second season of The Clone Wars so I didn't get to see him in action past his first encounter with Obi-Wan.

What I saw of Durge, I liked. They actually put some thought into making a worthy adversary for the Jedi. I think it would be a shame if they didn't use him in Episode 3.

Actually, I wasn't thinking of Durge. I'm talking about the robotic type guy who was only in the last episode. He had three light sabers (one for each hand, and one with his "foot") and was kickin' jedi booty. His name is General Grievous

That's a new one on me. As I stated earlier, I haven't caught most of season 2 yet, but the both of them sound really cool.

I hope they are setting these characters up for a rough and tumble episode 3 appearance.