Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Identity Crisis #3 **SPOILERS**

So, another one bites the dust. I knew Ray shoulda given her more than just a friggin' crossbow to defend herself (with only the one bolt in it to boot!). I can only imagine what fuel this will lend to the misogyny dabates going on on the DCMB, but I got tired of it after awhile when it became clear there was too big a gap between those who recognized a societal issue and those who were annoyed that it was even brought up.

The issue itself was fun, but didn't progress the story as much I would've hoped. The big scene is the fight with Deathstroke and there's no way to do something like that without making the heroes perform less than you would expect them to. Deathstroke managed to strike each one of them down before they finally rallied back (and while I understand the plot significance of the big pile on, it looked even sillier here than with Dr Light).

We also find out when the heroes altered people's brains before. Turns out it was only memory wipes the times they found out the heroes' identities. Zatanna was shown to be the one doing it, but GL could have done it just as easily (in fact didn't he do that during the "silver age" event when the heroes and villains switched bodies? I don't remember). Anyway, I thought it was interesting that this whole thing was at the heart of the Green Arrow/Hawkman tension this whole time.

I wasn't so hot on the idea that the rest of the League had this side we didn't know about - what Ollie calls "the cleanup". Protecting your loved ones I can understand, but the story comes across (and Wally concurs) that this is a stain on the heroes themselves, which doesn't sit so well with me.

Okay, I couldn't pass up posting this panel.



Even in the comics, Utah gets no respect. As it should be.

Drake, you failed to mention the one big, and I mean BIG revelation in this issue. Take a look at the panel when Dr. Light regains his memory from the Satelite attack. Notice anything peculiar about that panel? Particularly someone who doesn't belong?

That one panel has had my brain working overtime, and has overshadowed anything else I read this week. The complexity of this story is starting to amaze me. Despite some disturbing content, Brad Meltzer is putting together a very interesting story.

ARGH, leave it to me to leave this at home, now I have to wait 12 hours to look at that panel.

Okay. I am not surprised Ray's ex bit it, although I think the method is interesting and once again points to someone working to keep from incriminating use of probable powers.

I loved the fight scene with Deathstoke, because it was believable. He would have accounted for every single power, but it seems odd that he did not also account for the sheer fighting ability of these people. Sure, they're heroes. But being a hero does not mean you aren't a rabid fighter. Still, good moments! Slade Wilson rocks!

So, who's next, kiddies? Jack Drake? I wonder if Jimmy Olsen is thrown in as a red herring, because apparently Superman isn't involved. (Although I keep thinking of the end of the movie - the kiss that stole Lois Lane's memories of his secret identity...)

I'm all jittery wondering what they're going to do to Barry...

Guess I won't get this after all. Killing heroes is one thing...killing wives and loved ones of many heroes is another. It's called a cheap plot device. At least in my opinion.

I haven't read it, might never, but on the DCMB there's speculation that Jean might not be dead yet and they're going to have a last minute save by Ray. I hope so, based solely on the spoiler threads I've read this book just makes me want to throw in the towel on comics forever.

They better not screw with Barry Allen too much more...or I may pretty much drop comics from the big 2 altogether. I already have dropped Marvel's stuff for a variety of reasons.

Legion being the only DCU exception.

Vertigo titles would be alright since there really is no connection between the two.

Who? What? Spill it?? WhoWhoWhoWho?

Holy Crap! I actually didn't notice that -- I just breezed through that panel and turned the page to see what happened next. What does this mean?!?!? Was he left out of the retelling in issue two for a reason or does the League not even remember him being there or is Dr Light remembering it in a way that never happened??
(btw, Cuanotaucarious, it's Batman!!)

I didn't spot that either. I'm willing to bet that Light actually saw him but the League was unaware he was there. That would be very much in character with Bruce.

This is an interested theory. While it would be typical of Bruce to be lying in the shadows, spying on his own teammates, consider this question: WHEN did Batman transport up to the satellite? If he transported before the other Leaguers returned from their battle with Hector Hammond, that would mean that he allowed Dr. Light to rape Sue. If he transported as the Leaguers were tackling Dr. Light, would he really go unnoticed?

I certainly don't believe Batman's inclusion in that panel is an "artist's mistake." I'm leaning toward the idea that Dr. Light's restored memory of the event is flawed: he BELIEVES Batman was present, but Bats really wasn't.

Geez, I hope this already disagreeable sounding story doesn't also turn into another omniscient Batman riff.

Batman's surprise appearance in Dr. Light's memories leads me to think that one of two things happened.

1. The JLAers messed with Batman's mind, or

2. Batman messed with the conspirators' minds.


I'm leaning toward the theory that the Conspiracy JLAers messed with Batman's mind. I imagine he might have completely disagreed with what the others were about to do to Dr. Light and was even willing to take action against them. A quick flash of a power ring or a "Namtab, tegrof" and Batman's memory of their actions are erased. They've already shown that making people forget things became easier to do. They probably just forgot to make Dr. Light forget specifically that Batman was not there. If this is the case, I have a feeling that Batman already suspects something. Notice that he was at Sue's crime scene before anyone else? Also, why exactly couldn't he be at Sue's funeral? And won't he be a bit ornary when he finds out his minds been messed with.


There is the possibility that Batman used Zatanna or Green Lantern to change the other JLAers memories of his presence on the satellite during the Dr. Light episode. I don't know what motivation he would have or what agenda would be furthured by this action, though.

This is an intriguing and intelligent theory, but if it's true, I hate it. Giving a "personality lobotomy" to a villain is questionable at best, but to mess with a compadre's mind is downright despicable.

Well, he IS Batman; being at crime scenes before anyone else IS what he does.

Ornery? Bruce will go absolutely berserk! Look at how disgusted he was with Hal Jordan/Spectre for making everyone forget Wally West was the Flash recently.


Yeah, I don't see what he would gain by doing this, especially since Zatanna or GL would remember his presence.

I also just don't see why Oliver, Dinah, Carter, Ray, Ralph, or Zatanna would omit Batman's presence from their narrative.

I have to confess that overall, I'm not impressed with IC, but this is an intriguing element to the story.

this issue was at my CBS yesterday !!!

i thought it wasn't out yet ??? maybe i need to go back, and have another look ....

btw i'm really enjoying this series, so far !!!

Matthew.

The thing about Batman being in that panel... it actually can't have happened the way Light remembers, because if you compare that panel with the matching on in issue #2 you'll see that in the "space" where Batman is in the second panel, we have an arrow sticking out of Dr. Light's leg. In the panel with Batman, the arrow is still there - visible sticking into Light's leg, and visible coming out Batman's back. So... er? Ollie shot plum through Bruce? I don't buy it. This is obviously a giant clue, but what it points to, I don't think we can guess just yet.

I don't think Jean can be saved; she struggled against the noose, but in the last panel, she's limp. That usually means death... And makes the next cover, Wonder Woman holder her magical lasso of truth in a noose, more than creepy.

I still have a few questions bugging me (other than "who's the killer?")

1. Why does Light remember Batman being there?
2. If Light doesn't/didn't remember the rape, then how did he know that the League would be after him when Sue was killed?
3. What actually killed Sue?
4. When did Captain Boomerang become a drug addict? Is it Miraclo he's on, or something else?
5. Where does this fit, timewise, in relation to the rest of the books in the DCU? Tim's father knows he's Robin and he still IS Robin - this has happened in NO book Tim is in, yet. Bart was Kid Flash at the funeral, so this must be after everyone's memory of Wally being Flash was erased, thus why does Wally have quite so big a problem? Why is Firestorm not yet the new Firestorm? Why hasn't any of this searching come up in Titans, Outsiders, etc.? (For that matter, why hasn't the tiny-kryptonite-meteors problem shown up in Outsiders?)

Mysteries. Craziness!!

The only thing we know is that he was sent by the Calculator to the satellite to recruit help. Whether that means the Calculator tipped him off (how he would know is another mystery), or Light was tipped off in some other way and Calculator was merely pointing Light in the right direction.

Interesting though, that Light went through all the trouble of hiring Deathstroke and there was all that fighting, but Light himself took everyone down in one shot anyway.

I have a question about Deathstroke. After Ollie stabs him and he rips his mask off, the interior of his mask appears to be lined with circuitry of some sort. Is this something that's been established, artistic detail or something else?

This will be dealt with in the IC cross-over to the new Firestorm series.

Same as above. Give it time. IC is supposed to cross-over into a number of titles for more detailed, but not required, reading.

IC will definitely be running through Flash (no pun intended) as Metzger has already seen Geoff Johns' scripts and loves where Geoff went with the "cross over". I believe it is a 3 part story?!?

As for Light remembering Batman being there during the beating, I think it is more a mistake on Light's part. The League would not have mindwiped Batman just because he was opposed to the idea of mental tampering. That is a big, big line to cross. I don't think this was an intentional placement for a later revelation. I think Light's perception is still a bit skewed.


I did like Green Arrow's narration of the fight scene with Deathstroke, from not realizing Slade was destroying his arrows to realizing he had to take extreme measures so Slade would react in fury and not think out his next twelve moves. That gave the rest of the team time to regroup.

And why the hell didn't Kyle act sooner? He was the last one to face Deathstroke. He could have easily wrapped up Slade in a big green box before the team got trounced.

The Green Lantern part was certainly one of the hardest to swallow, imo. Deathstroke takes out Zatanna, but leaves the guy with the most powerful weapon in the universe til the end?!? What kind of tactic is that? Kyle had several opportunities to pluck Deathstroke from the air with all the jumping he was doing and yeah, trying to punch him was just stupid.

But aside from that, it appears that Kyle can't get the ring working because Slade's willpower is preventing Kyle from using it -- that he ws trying to wrest control of the ring with his own mind. Regardless of how strong his will is, the ring can't work for him (not even a little)-- Kyle's ring only works for Kyle! It's tied to him genetically and has nothing to do with willpower.

Maybe the circuitry revealed under his mask (I'll have to recheck the issue, going off Drake's comment) is something actually running through his uniform that will allow him to fake out the ring, make it think his genetic structure is Kyle's.

And could the pacing be the reason why Kyle didn't have time to act? How quickly do you think these events were ocurring? Maybe over 20 to 30 seconds at most? Not sure, just posing the question. And if Slade was using something to fake out Kyle's ring it would explain why he couldn't try to act sooner. He was having to focus harder to get it to work.

BTW, when did it go from a willpower focus to a genetic thing? That's news to me.

From the moment Kyle got the ring, it only worked for him. Ganthet (ex-Guardian) remade the ring from the remains of Hal Jordan's ring and keyed it to Kyle's DnA when he gave it to him (as I recall - it might have happened the first time he charged it though). So it works for Kyle and for Hal (since it used to be his) and I think it worked for his 31st century decendent Cary Wren as well.

Lots of things going on in this issue. LOved Terminator vs ex-JLA and I do agree that all the action in the few pages were actually in the space of moments.

I think people make such a big fuss about the rape issue. For the record, I think rape is a horrible, horrible thing to do to another person. What I am driving at is this: IC is not about rape per se but about the potential (& sometimes, realized) price that heroes--and more importantly, the family/friends around them--have/had to pay for being a hero. That's what this crisis is all about in my mind.

Heck, Wally/Flash had to lose twins with Linda over in his title, prompting him to ask the Spectre to give him back a secret identity!

Not to start the way too overheated debates about this at the DCMB, but one of the concerns about the rape *is* the fact that this story isn't about the rape - rape is used here as a plot device, where the victim is merely a piece of meat to be victimized then tossed aside to get to the "real" story (due to the personal nature of this crime, it also tosses aside those who identify with the victim unlike murder mysteries that start out with a body). This just scratches the surface of this issue, but I don't want to delve into it here. Just wanted to make that one counterpoint.

I am going to delve into it a little more, just to make a counterpoint to your counterpoint.

It's not that IC isn't about the rape, it's that IC isn't just about the rape; IC is about a lot of things. One of those things is that people close to superheroes can be targeted and suffer for that reason. This is unfortunate, but true. It's a fact, and as a fact, it is not so much the message as the vehicle for the as yet not totally revealed message.

In my opinion, more important is that these heroes -- who fight for truth and justice and liberty and all that good stuff -- have this horrible secret. They have done something which they themselves feel is morally wrong, but necessary. And the question the readers must ask themselves is: are they right? Was it justified? Was it necessary? If they had not altered Dr. Light's personality, would he not in fact have raped again? They were aiming to protect their loved ones, and potentially innocent people who he might think were their loved ones. But can that exonerate their guilt? Was not what they did to Dr. Light another type of rape?

Each reader will have their own, individual feelings on the matter, which is why there is such a firey uproar over on the DC boards, and elsewhere, no doubt. I have no trouble telling you that had been in the place of one of the superheroes who were there, I would have done everything in my power to kill Light, and I would have gone to jail counting it worth it. In my opinion, rape is worse than murder, because rape kills you but leaves you alive. Very few people are strong enough to recover from the psychological damage that it causes, and even those few still bear the scars.

The serial killings may have nothing to do with what happened with Dr. Light. However, because of events springing from Sue's death, Dr. Light is regaining his memory. He knows what they did to him. He can tell others, and they will have to confront whether what they did was just as bad.

But worse than that, now that Dr. Light's memory is back, will he rape again?

Murder itself could not drive these people to do something so abhorrent to them; rape did. I think that is a very serious statement about rape. Your mileage may vary.