Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Quick chime ins on some of the controversial stuff

I'm looking for quick, one or two word responses to various controversial events that have occurred in the DCU in the past couple of years. There's always lots of debate about these things, and I'm just curious to scan responses...

Hal Jordan is Green Lantern again

Sue Dibney violated by Dr. Light

Sue Dibney murdered

Satellite JLA responsible for mind-wiping & personality changing bad guys

Alexander Luthor turning evil

Max Lord turns out to always have been evil

Superboy-prime turns into crazy murderer and slaughters several minor Titans

Blue Beetle killed

New Blue Beetle

New Firestorm

New Atom

Legion of Super Heroes rebooted

Wally West and family disappear abruptly

Bart becomes the Flash

Superman & Lois of Earth 2 die


Feel free to remind me other controversies...

I'll start. Some of my reponses are admittedly longer than two words.

Hal Jordan is Green Lantern again
---Glad, Rebirth makes more sense than ET

Sue Dibney violated by Dr. Light
---Hideous

Sue Dibney murdered
---Sad

Satellite JLA responsible for mind-wiping & personality changing bad guys
---Overblown

Alexander Luthor turning evil
---OK

Max Lord turns out to always have been evil
---Silly

Superboy-prime turns into crazy murderer and slaughters several minor Titans
---Shocking

Blue Beetle killed
---Worthy death

New Blue Beetle
---no opinion

New Firestorm
---not stressed

New Atom
---miss Ray

Legion of Super Heroes rebooted
---annoyed, but intermittently enjoying reboot

Wally West and family disappear abruptly
---frustrating

Bart becomes the Flash
---hate it

Superman & Lois of Earth 2 die
---ok, but unimaginative

I pretty much agree with the exception that I'd reverse your judments of Alexander Luthor turning evil and Maxwell Lord always having been evil.

And, though I agree that Sue's rape and murder were sad and hideous, they occurred in a good story, though one with an admittedly weak ending and some questionable moments (Firestorm, for one.

Hal Jordan is Green Lantern again
Good times

Sue Dibney violated by Dr. Light
Unnecessary

Sue Dibney murdered
Unfortunate

Satellite JLA responsible for mind-wiping & personality changing bad guys
Angst overdose

Alexander Luthor turning evil
OK

Max Lord turns out to always have been evil
Feh

Superboy-prime turns into crazy murderer and slaughters several minor Titans
Cheap thrills

Blue Beetle killed
Worthy death

New Blue Beetle
Don't care

New Firestorm
Don't care

New Atom
Pretty good

Legion of Super Heroes rebooted
Working fine

Wally West and family disappear abruptly
Not cool

Bart becomes the Flash
Bad idea

Superman & Lois of Earth 2 die
Deserved better

Hal Jordan is Green Lantern again
-- YES!!!

Sue Dibney violated by Dr. Light
-- Needlessly brutal

Sue Dibney murdered
-- I don't really care in general, but as the lynchpin for a big "Event", it didn't impress me.

Satellite JLA responsible for mind-wiping & personality changing bad guys
-- Maybe once I can understand, but rubs me the wrong way that they did it regularly

Alexander Luthor turning evil
-- whatever

Max Lord turns out to always have been evil
-- Didn't buy it

Superboy-prime turns into crazy murderer and slaughters several minor Titans
--Needlessly brutal and I didn't buy the transformation

Blue Beetle killed
-- Shocking and I liked him, but it was effective the way Sue's murder wasn't.

New Blue Beetle
-- Whatever

New Firestorm
-- I feel bad for old Firestorm fans

New Atom
-- Horrible outfit. I wasn't a big fan of the original anyway.

Legion of Super Heroes rebooted
-- Totally unnecessary. Still tons of potential in that setup and roster.

Wally West and family disappear abruptly
-- Don't really care, but I think DC is going overboard with replacing heroes.

Bart becomes the Flash
-- Whatever

Superman & Lois of Earth 2 die
-- I thought they should've died at the end of the first Crisis

- Hal Jordan is Green Lantern again
http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20050905.html & http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20050907.html

- Sue Dibney violated by Dr. Light
"Needlessly brutal", as Drake said + moronic as a retcon

- Sue Dibney murdered

Maybe if it had been a good story. That made sense

- Satellite JLA responsible for mind-wiping & personality changing bad guys
- Alexander Luthor turning evil

Don't care × 2

- Max Lord turns out to always have been evil
Go read JLI/Am #12, #24, 41 and 60 then tell me it makes even the slighest lick of sense. Then I'll call you a liar.

- Superboy-prime turns into crazy murderer and slaughters several minor Titans

Who gives a $%^&

- Blue Beetle killed

Stupitly done

- New Blue Beetle

Who gives a $%^&

- New Firestorm

Alright, but eh

- New Atom

Who gives a $%^&

- Legion of Super Heroes rebooted

:smash:

- Wally West and family disappear abruptly

Stupitly done

- Bart becomes the Flash

Stupitly done

- Superman & Lois of Earth 2 die

Who gives a $%^&

Hal Jordan is Green Lantern again
- About time and very well done

Sue Dibney violated by Dr. Light
- Needlessly brutal (agree with above)

Sue Dibney murdered
- Sad

Satellite JLA responsible for mind-wiping & personality changing bad guys
- On the fence

Alexander Luthor turning evil
- Cool

Max Lord turns out to always have been evil
- Meh

Superboy-prime turns into crazy murderer and slaughters several minor Titans
- Intense, makes for good jokes on Legion World

Blue Beetle killed
- Sad, hardest death for me to accept

New Blue Beetle
- Meh so far

New Firestorm
- OK so far, but completely unneccessary. Would not care if undone in a few years.

New Atom
- Enjoyable so far, but miss Ray Palmer.

Legion of Super Heroes rebooted
- Nothing is the same as the original Legion

Wally West and family disappear abruptly
- Rage inducing

Bart becomes the Flash
- Stupidest thing done by DC so far

Superman & Lois of Earth 2 die
- Pretty well written, powerful if you had a previous attachment to Earth-1/Earth-2 history, should have been at end of CoiE. Wish Supes E2 really had a chance to shine more.

I think you should do a Marvel one too...

Hal Jordan is Green Lantern again

- undid a horrible travesty

Sue Dibney violated by Dr. Light

-Completely unnecessary retcon.

Sue Dibney murdered

-Completely stupid so far, thought they could still make something worthwhile out of it.

Satellite JLA responsible for mind-wiping & personality changing bad guys

-Should never have been made a bid deal

Alexander Luthor turning evil

-Poorly done in many ways

Max Lord turns out to always have been evil

-Don't really care.

Superboy-prime turns into crazy murderer and slaughters several minor Titans

-In principle annoying, in practice it kind of works.

Blue Beetle killed

-Annoying.

New Blue Beetle

-Annoying, but what I've seen of him isn't that bad.

New Firestorm

-Extremely annoying.

New Atom

-Don't really care.

Legion of Super Heroes rebooted

-Horrendously bad! Stupidest thing DC ever did! ... Oh wait, you mean the latest reboot? Well, an improvement over what was before, at least.

Wally West and family disappear abruptly

Annoying.

Bart becomes the Flash

Obviously gimmick-y.

Superman & Lois of Earth 2 die

Cheap shock value. Should never have been done. Completely screwed over the ending of the *real* Crisis.

Hal Jordan is Green Lantern again
-I hate to see deaths treated so disposably in comics, but I'm not out picketing.

Sue Dibney violated by Dr. Light
-Not a big fan, per se, but it does make sense for vilalins to be more villanous than just bank-robbers and would-be global conquerors.

Sue Dibney murdered
-Death in comic universes remains a joke. Even the minor characters coem back - eventually.

Satellite JLA responsible for mind-wiping & personality changing bad guys
-a dark, "realistic" and Orwellian twist. makes sense that some "hero" or another would try it.

Alexander Luthor turning evil
-didn't heard about that. too bad.

Max Lord turns out to always have been evil
-don't like, but don't particularly care.

Superboy-prime turns into crazy murderer and slaughters several minor Titans
-ditto.

Blue Beetle killed
-yet another comic-book "death." so what? sooner or later, he'll be back.

New Blue Beetle
-dunno.

New Firestorm
-dunno. To me, this was always a one-creator charcter. Conway created him, and ran him best. no one else ever seemed to get any mileage out of him.

New Atom
-with the Byrne-out? Noooo thanks.

Legion of Super Heroes rebooted
-been kinda bland until lately.

Wally West and family disappear abruptly
-I was wondering what happened to him.

Bart becomes the Flash
-odd, but I don't care.

Superman & Lois of Earth 2 die
-too bad. At least in limbo, they were "alive" if absent.

EDE, I don't know Marvel well enough. Although I guess I'm aware of some of the big stuff from Disassembled, House of M, and Civil War just from reading about them on these boards.

It wasn't until I did this thread that it dawned on me just how many characters DC has "replaced" in the last few years...Atom, Firestorm, Flash, Captain Marvel, Blue Beetle, Aquaman. I thought I heard something about Wonder Woman as well? Almost Nightwing. And in other ways, you could say Green Lantern, Green Arrow, Hawkman, and the LSH. Is anyone other than Superman and Batman immune to this?

Hal Jordan is Green Lantern again
Hal-- and all the other GLs-- are now being written BETTER than they EVER were before. And after boycotting GL for 13 years, it's now one of the ONLY DCs I buy!

Sue Dibney violated by Dr. Light
the writer should never work in comics again

Sue Dibney murdered
the writer should never work ANYWHERE again

Satellite JLA responsible for mind-wiping & personality changing bad guys
HEY! Doc Savage-- and The Eye-- both did it regular! Nobody ever complained... (They're HABITUAL CRIMINAL OFFENDERS!!!!!)

Alexander Luthor turning evil
Never cared about this guy in the first place...

Max Lord turns out to always have been evil
BULLS***!!!!!!

Superboy-prime turns into crazy murderer and slaughters several minor Titans
This character should NEVER HAVE BEEN CREATED in the first place!!!

Blue Beetle killed
YOU BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!!!

New Blue Beetle
Who cares?

New Firestorm
Huh?

New Atom
Wha'...?

Legion of Super Heroes rebooted
Congratulations, DC. You made me STOP BUYING the ONLY comic I'd bought regularly for 25 straight years. (In other words-- UP YOURS, Waid!!!)

Wally West and family disappear abruptly
???

Bart becomes the Flash
I LIKE it!

Superman & Lois of Earth 2 die
Can't they just let anyone die peaceably of old age with dignity anymore???

My opinons are the complete opposite of my better half here...

My 2 cents -

Hal Jordan is Green Lantern again
--- As EDE said, a horrible travesty undone!

Sue Dibney violated by Dr. Light
--- Unnecessarily darkened an enjoyably 'light' character but I did really like the story it happened in.

Sue Dibney murdered
--- Very unhappy at the time but am loving Ralph's story in 52 so we'll see where it goes.

Satellite JLA responsible for mind-wiping & personality changing bad guys
--- As someone else said, once was understandable, but a whole bunch of times is way too far!

Alexander Luthor turning evil
--- HATE! Totally ruined my memories of the completely excellent Crisis on Infinite Earths just so they could cash in with an unmitigatingly awful sequel.

Max Lord turns out to always have been evil
--- Could handle him *becoming* evil but *always being* evil is just a step too far - and annoying.

Superboy-prime turns into crazy murderer and slaughters several minor Titans
--- When they were on the team I hated Pantha and Baby Wildebeest, but when they died I was sad - and mega-annoyed that Johns hadn't offed ultra-sucky members Risk and Argent as he had originally planned. Can live with it though. As for Superboy Prime - see my Alexander Luthor response, and add another HATE!

Blue Beetle killed
--- I liked him but I don't mind any character dying as long as the story they die in is great. His? Was GREAT!

New Blue Beetle
--- I hear his series is good and I like the idea of more Hispanics/Latinos in the DCU so thumbs up.

New Firestorm
--- If Ronnie Raymond had gone out with any sort of dignity, or the decency befitting one of DC's big-gun characters (which I believe him to be) and a classic member of the Satellite JLA (and therefore unkillable without an exceptionably good reason) then I might have been OK with it. But since I consider his death and the aftermath to it to be one of the most poorly written, badly thought out and disrespectful deaths of any JLAer EVER then no sorry, I just can't give the new Firestorm a chance.

New Atom
--- Why does he even exist? We all know the old Atom will be back eventually. A waste of a title IMO.

Legion of Super Heroes rebooted
--- Which reboot are we talking about. I was originally really miffed about the first erasure of Legion history but grew to absolutely LOVE the reboot Legion (before HATING and then LOVING and then HATING it again) so I could live with it. Waid and Kitson's recent reboot I was initially insanely excited about but since it has proven to be (IMO) one of the worst not only Legion-comics but comics-period that I have ever read, I am beyond exasperated with it and wish they would just reboot it all over again.

Wally West and family disappear abruptly
--- I'm not a huge Flash fan but I thought this was an extraordinarily stupid move on DC's part and a clear sign (as if Infinite Crisis wasn't enough of a clue) that the people upstairs there don't know what they're doing.

Bart becomes the Flash
--- Marginally liked Bart as Impulse, didn't like him as Kid Flash and hate him as the Flash. The Flash legacy is now a joke as far as I'm concerned. Kill him off I say.

Superman & Lois of Earth 2 die
--- Not opposed to the idea of them dying (if Earth 2 Batman can die, so can they) but am fundamentally opposed to the idea of them dying in a crap story. And you know what I think of Infinite Crisis! But hey, at least they weren't Earth 2 Wonder Woman or Steve Trevor. Getting killed off just so you can send some saccharine words of wisdom has gotta be a cold way to go!

Hal Jordan is Green Lantern again
GREAT!

Sue Dibney violated by Dr. Light
shameless sensationalism and hatred of the JLI. pathetic.

Sue Dibney murdered
boo. hiss.

Satellite JLA responsible for mind-wiping & personality changing bad guys
boo. hiss. i would buy batman doing it but not the others. oddly enough.

Alexander Luthor turning evil
silly. but who cares.

Max Lord turns out to always have been evil
that's lame. what about all the stories where he turns good.


Superboy-prime turns into crazy murderer and slaughters several minor Titans

Radical. Loved it.

Blue Beetle killed
boo. hiss. and a brand new blue beetle now, boo. hiss.

New Blue Beetle
he's not any more special than the old one. it's just marketing.

New Firestorm
i liked Ronald. what's with all the killing of characters then a slightly different one emerges...

New Atom
the old atom was fine.

Legion of Super Heroes rebooted
the DnA legion got me reading the legion again. i dont read waid/kitson.

Wally West and family disappear abruptly
just a way to introduce a not so new not so different flash.

Bart becomes the Flash
wally was fine.

Superman & Lois of Earth 2 die
cool. whatev.

Hal Jordan is Green Lantern again
-meh. Kyle will always be my boy. That being said I hated Hal as the Spectre and the Idea that Parallax was a seperate entity (an Yellow at that *snerk*) was a decent enough excuse.

Sue Dibney violated by Dr. Light
-Shouldve been Lois. or maybe Lana.

Sue Dibney murdered
-annoyed...somewhat upset. but it served the story well.

Satellite JLA responsible for mind-wiping & personality changing bad guys
-Who Watches the Watchmen?

Alexander Luthor turning evil
-expected

Max Lord turns out to always have been evil
-He Always was though. A little bit Evil. The Diet Coke of Evil - there were signs.

Superboy-prime turns into crazy murderer and slaughters several minor Titans
-Well its better a few of the Lamer Titans Died - honestly Bushido appeared like once - then what wouldve happened had the original premise of the All-Era Legion come about. SOMEONES fan favorite wouldve died and we'd never hear the end of it (bye by Dawnstar). Just be happy we still Have Duela.

Blue Beetle killed
-I loved Ted. R.I.P. "I have a heart condition!"

New Blue Beetle
-shouldve been Female

New Firestorm
-Meh. no opinion.

New Atom
-Liking it. Gail Simone can do no wrong.

Legion of Super Heroes rebooted
-AGAIN. it annoyed me but the Zero Hour Legion was getting a little stale. Still havent decided on my opinion of the latest offering - hated it, then liked it now kinda hate it - I like the singular spotlight stories - Cham, Dreamy - but dont like the overall tone of the series. I also want an origin issue Dammit!

Wally West and family disappear abruptly
-They'll be back, and likely as we'll get new Tornado Twins from the Deal - I love a Blood-Brat! and Im eagerly awaiting the mainstay debut of the Kingdom Come female Flash.

Bart becomes the Flash
-expected. Like the book so-far - Loving "the Griffin"

Superman & Lois of Earth 2 die
-they shouldve raped them first ala Identity Crisis. Honestly I dont care - they were to old to be relevant in todays market. but they shouldve had children - maybe a new Superwoman/girl - re-retconned Cir-el? Linda Danvers?

Joe-Boy, it's nice to know I'm not alone on the Kyle Raynor fan island. Not that I dislike Hal, by Kyle's THE ONE. As for Parallax, that was a cheap out to allow Jordan to return. Boo...

Hal Jordan is Green Lantern again
I had nothing against Kyle but for me Hal always was "my" Green Lantern.

Sue Dibney violated by Dr. Light
I didn't read the series but, the guy is supposed to be evil. Is it too much of a stretch to see something like this happening?

Sue Dibney murdered
I liked Sue fom the old JLE series but I just have no faith in a comic book death anymore. They'll always be back again soon.

Satellite JLA responsible for mind-wiping & personality changing bad guys
Don't really care.

Alexander Luthor turning evil
He's a Luthor! What more do you need to know?

Max Lord turns out to always have been evil
Don't buy it. He was always ruthless and manipulative but for him to actually murder Ted? Nah.

Superboy-prime turns into crazy murderer and slaughters several minor Titans
Don't really care. The biggest problem I had with the whole evil Superboy thing was that it could tarnish the memory of the REAL Superboy.

Blue Beetle killed
Blue Beetle was the first comic I ever read so I was well peed off at this - but like I said before - comic deaths? more like comical deaths. He'll be back.

New Blue Beetle
Haven't read it but the costume looks cool and I like the fact they re-introduced the scarab and it's always good to get a bit of ethnic diversity - in theory,even if that usually just gives us a "jive talking" black man in practice.

New Firestorm
Never read any version of the character so I'm not fussed.

New Atom
The guy is just a place holder for Ray, who WILL be back.

Legion of Super Heroes rebooted
Just can't get into it, I'm afraid. I hope that with the reintroduction of Mon El that might change, though.

Wally West and family disappear abruptly
This and the Legion have always been my two favorite books at DC and now I have gone off BOTH of them. Thanks DC!

Bart becomes the Flash
I've been reading the new series but as with the Legion it just seems to be coasting and not going anywhere. I liked Bart as Bart but, Wally - or even Jay - should be Flash. I'm sticking with this through loyalty rather than enjoyment.(just like with the Legion)

Superman & Lois of Earth 2 die
They didn't get the respect they deserved. Their deaths should have been mythic instead it was just part of a substandard, cynical, money grabbing exercise in how to fleece the punters of their hard earned cash.

As someone said, I've always felt that if Max had been shown to have become evil, that would have been potentially believable and compelling, but to try to imply that he'd always been evil just makes the whole thing look silly, and as if the writers had never read the JLI.

Also, with Sue's rape, it's true that Dr. Light is evil and should do evil things, but I think there was something about the visual depiction of that scene that was particularly hideous.

Is it the idea that some of the JLA repeatedly personality-wiped villains a la Dr. Light? Not just erased their memories of stuff like their secret identities? That does seem ridiculous, and pretty much messes up any sense of grandeur the team has--as much for the "conspiracy" angle as for the act itself. That they do it once would seem all right, dramatically, for me. But if everyone in the DCU, including the villains, is getting morally huffy over just repeated memory-wipes, than it all seems like a huge over-reaction.

Pointless but good story.

Unnecessary.

Heartbreaking.

Fine by me.

Genetic.

Explains the Super-Buddies.

Bloody pointless.

Really sad.

Alright, I guess.

I like 'im!

Adorably well-written.

Amazing!

Why?

Too soon.

Heroic ending.