Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Birds of Prey

Um, actually, Tasmanian Devil, Monsieur Mallah, Brain, and I think Anima was an LGBT heroine.

LOL Yep. Savant was cool. Kind of the anti-Oracle. Where she has Batman like skills but is limited by physical disabilities, Savant had Batman like skills but was limited by mental disabilities.

And he had great hair.

Alas, I'll just have to focus on Catman. (If my trades ever arrive.)

BTW, for those upset about another LGBT character death, Gail revealed a couple of days ago, in her CBR forum, that one of the male Secret Sixers is bi. She hasn't revealed who, though.

Don't forget Dwarfstar and King Shark are now interim Sixers.

I don't know who they are. Wait, King Shark??? Kidnapper of Zinda?! Should be good.

I'm kind of trying to avoid S6 spoilers. Sort of. At least till my trades come. I haven't actually read any S6 but their appearance in BoP and some previews.

Dwarfstar's this psychotic nutjob who is, was, Ryan Choi's archenemy. A complete psycho with a shrinking belt who leaves poems for those he kills. He was the one who paid Deathstroke and his team to kill Ryan.

King Shark's not the one you're thinking off. This one has had run-ins with Superboy during his Hawaii days and the second Aquaman. Son of a shark god.

Ah.

oh boy...still....too many gay characters are being shafted...look at Obsidian in JSA (as a black egg?!?!), none in Titans, none in Legion, Starman in JLA who is gonna have a "crush" or "relationship" with Jade (huh? yuck), none in Freedom Fighters, none in many books. Manhunter was the great book and too bad it no longer appeared as a back up in Gotham Streets. so the visibility on gay/Lesbians is ZILCH! not good news for Gay/Lesbian community. and to make this matter worse, this month of June is the PRIDE month awareness. geez.

Technically I understand Mikaal was bisexual. He was married to a woman before he came to Earth.

Okay, Gail Simone's dropped some hints on various message board, one of which involves Creote and Savant. I'll put them in spoilers, just in case.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">
Simone said on one of the forums that we shouldn't judge Creote's and Savant's deaths for another two issues. So maybe things aren't what they seem.

She also mentioned a betrayal somewhere. She's said that Oracle, Canary and Huntress are the heart of the team, so it's likely not one of them. I'm afraid it might be Zinda. It could be Creote and Savant. Maybe they faked their deaths.
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Creote's death was offscreen- a gunshot over the phone. So yeah, it's not all that certain yet. Ditto Savant, we saw he's body in a pool of blood and only have Creote's word.

Creote had confirmed his sexuality with Canary, who confirmed it to Zinda. But Savant was never confirmed. I'll have to re-read the issue, but Creote never referred to Savant as his lover.

Either way- Gail created both characters. If she chose to kill them off, it's unlikely she had any more intentions beyond killing Creote and Savant, as opposed to killing gay characters.

Yeah, I think Simone's pretty LGBT friendly, overall. She's introduced homosexual characters in Secret Six and Wonder Woman, too. Also, I think she really likes Creote and Savant. If they're dead, I'm sure it wasn't done lightly.

^ Well, Gail Simone did kill (allegedly, I haven't read the issue myself) two of DC's very few other gay villains over in Secret Six - the Privateer and Captain Stingaree - so take that for what you will about her LGBT friendliness.

As for Birds of Prey #2 - man, Gail Simone is one of the most Jekyll and Hyde writers out there for me. Some times I think her writing is excellent. Other times, abysmal. This issue leaned toward the latter I'm afraid.

First of all, almost nothing happened. The characters spent the ENTIRE ISSUE having a not very interesting fight with yet another ultimate/supreme/unstoppable/the-best-they've-ever-seen/yawn martial artist and then some police (for the most forced and contrived reasons possible) in one location (a boring alley) while Oracle sat at her computer freaking out. That. was. it. And someone complained that LoSH #2 was decompressed!?!

So story-wise, this issue was an EPIC FAIL. But what about characterisation? That can sometimes save a bad story right? And Gail Simone is known as a 'character' writer isn't she? Well, not in my opinion. Why does Simone write everyone in this book as so insufferably *smug*? It's a wonder these characters ever get to do any heroing with the amount of time they put into congratulating themselves or being so constantly self-focused. If Gail Simone's Birds of Prey were in high school they wouldn't be the 'Mean Girls', they'd be the judgemental bitches sitting in the corner who think they're so above everyone else.

I've already complained in this thread about Lady Blackhawk under Gail but I think her biggest crime is Black Canary. I think Gail Simone is the only writer who makes me actively dislike Dinah - formerly my #1 DC femme.

The one saving grace about this issue was Ed Benes' artwork which has just come along so far since he was last on this book. (I just wish he would stop drawing Black Canary's costume with such a narrow, high crotch though. His unwillingness to leave the porno/cheesecake-inspired elements of his style behind is the only thing keeping him from being the truly great artist he should be.)

What an unpleasant shock then when the book suddenly shifted to a different (and far, FAR inferior) artist half-way through. There was no credit on the cover about Melo being the co-artist (which, as much as I disliked his/her work, think was totally disrespectful to do) and some of their art was so amateur IMO I wonder how they even got a gig in comics, let alone on a new, high-profile book like this one? The panel where Dinah sinks to her knees after seeing the news report about Sin and the last page spread of Oracle in her weird Sarah Palin-esque beehive hair-do both had me laughing out loud.

The switch in artists did make me finally realise one thing though - good art *can* elevate poor writing, whereas bad art just brings it into painful relief.

I did quite like the previous issue though so who knows which Gail Simone will be writing the next one - Jekyll or Hyde? I'll give this book until the end of this storyline (#4) but if these characters are still as smug, the story-telling as slow and sloppy and Benes still sharing art duties with Melo by then, then it's definitely being dropped.

I agree, Blacula. BoP #2 was quite underwhelming!

Well, I'm actually going to start buying again.

Sin? are you really sure that it's her as White Canary..if so, then she must have grown up so faster - faster than Lian....and others....from a girl to a young teenager/woman...so I think it cannot be Sin. Either Lady Shiva or Cassandra Cain...oh well. I will have keep reading to find out.

Well the White Canary isn't Sin. Nor Shiva. Nor Cassandra Cain.

We get her identity, and it's a call back from an older BOP story Gail wrote before leaving the original title.

Dinah has some great moments, using her skills and her canary cry both, in her duel with the White Canary.

Ditto Babs in her face off against Savant and Creote. Both birds use their individual strengths in their confrontations, and we get strong solid moments defining these two women. Huntress, and Dove, also get a chance to show just who they are at heart.

Issue #4 really demonstrated Gail's understanding of the main cast. The art looks great, beautiful, colourful, vibrant, sexy, energetic- everything this team/book is. Benes does give us a few cheesecake bits, but nothing to detract from the story.

I just finshed BoP 2-3 and am SO GLAD to hear White Canary isn't Sin.

Okay I'll be back in a week or 2 after I've bought and read # 4...

Oracle's scenes with Savant and Creole made the issue, for me. I'm sure I still would've enjoyed the Black Canary/White Canary fight scene, but Barbara's physical and emotional courage were quite impressive.

And I just like those disfunctional boys, too.

There's some murky motives at work there- just what was Savant's plan and why?

How long till White Canary gets some kind of sonic power/gadget? Maybe she'll kidnap Piper and force him to rig her up... at least he'd get an appearance out of it...

I'd like Dinah to get some rogues of her own that *aren't* martial arts related.

Loved the glimpse of preteen Dinah palling around with her 'uncles'. I'd love an issue or three or six of just that. Work in a Molly Mayne-Scott FBI story laying the groundwork for a team-up with the Birds and Flash's your uncle.

so who is White Canary? opposite or long lost sister of Dinah?

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text"> She's the one sister of the Twelve Brothers in Silk. </span></span>

I haven't read #4 yet, but felt that after a pretty good but not great start in #1 and #2, it was #3 that really took this title to the next level and is making me confident that Gail is on the verge of hitting her stride once again.

At first I had just assumed White Canary was Shiva but I'm pleasantly surprised it's not Shiva, Cassandra Cain and especially not Sin.

I'm actually enjoying Gail's usage of Hawk & Dove here. Their more in the same role as Lady Blackhawk (not main BoPers but secondary ones), and they add different personality sets to the Birds.

Really pleased with the Savant and Creote developments.

So I read # 5. I'm already over White Canary and her uncanny sway over Dinah.

And WTF is wrong with Benes? He rarely missed an issue on his first run.

Despite my tone, I still enjoy BoP.

I've got mixed feelings ... started off great, but last issue was pretty weak... also, White Canary is not very interesting ... her intro felt too drawn out ... I'd like BoP to move on already ...

Gotta fill the first trade, donchaknow... ;-P

The musical number from the upcoming Brave and the Bold episode featuring the Birds!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N3CxtKAQSY