Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Pretend it's 2004...

...and you have been chosen to take over the ongoing Legion book after DnA leave. Unlike in the real-life 2003, DC has sensible editors who expressly forbid yet another reboot.

How would you undo the mess that DnA left the book in, thereby saving the Postboot Legion from oblivion? The exact point where DnA declined is still being debated after all these years; I personally consider the cliffhanger revealing "McCauley" to be Ra's Al Ghul is where it went down the toilet. However, you are obligated to play the cards you've been dealt and pick up where DnA leave off. So how would you deal with all the loose ends and questionable plot twists? And how would you improve on DnA's weaknesses, chiefly neglecting characterization most of the time in favor of spectacle, and re-using the same kind of plot over and over?

And finally, if this thread seems familiar, here's the reason why:

http://www.legionworld.net/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=838902&page=1

One thing I would really want to do would resolve some plotlines from the pre-DnA era actually, namely inducting Dirk into the Legion proper and resolving the whole third Tinya body fiasco.

...wait, are we picking up from #34* or #38? [*No, #34 wasn't by DnA, but it was an inventory issue that existed before they decided to leave. It ran as #34 since otherwise it would go to waste. The Gail Simone arc was created entirely after DnA left. Incidentally, I still blame Wacker rather than DnA for Foundations. #26-onward don't feel like they match #25 at all, but I've been over that before...]

There's also the question of whether we're doing a "transitional" run to clear the decks for the next guy, or doing an ongoing run. Frankly, if it was the latter, I'd be less inclined to spend lots of time "deal[ing] with all the loose ends and questionable plot twists" rather than trying to move forward from the status quo I inherit, and resolving old stuff only if it conveniently fits in with where I'm going.

If we assume for the moment that I've been specifically tasked with doing cleanup at first, with the possibility of being given more issues if well-received, and am picking up with #35... well, first, re: Kappa Kid... I wouldn't bother with Dirk at all. He is not a dangler in any meaningful sense whatsoever any more than, say, Gim is. I would also be highly tempted to leave Garth as Jarth, just wearing his own costume and with his "hair" cut short - the consequences from him being stuck looking like Element Lad were already dealt with in #32-33. I *certainly* don't see any benefit from resurrecting Jan. In other "nope"s... I'd like to do something with the fact that Cos was technically a fugitive on Braal after Worlds #3, but I think it's too long after the event, where he's been too high-profile in the interim, for that to really come up again. At most, that would probably need to just be handwaved with a "it was resolved after McCauley/Ra's fall and the Legion's refounding" line. Calling back to the same issue, bringing in Magno wouldn't have any great benefit to it, and would risk bringing him up purely for the sake of bringing him up. And Vi's tendency to be oversized through DnA's issues - it's something to touch on, but not "resolve" in the sense of changing it, I think.

First arc would be called something like "Who Are We?" (would have been Identity Crisis, but a certain mini was 2004...) and focus on three major plots over five/six issues:

• Tinya's third body and Cub... I actually did a short fanfic back in 2006 aimed specifically at resolving those both at once. If I was doing it in the series, I might execute it a bit differently, but that would probably form the basis of where I went.
• M'Onel - I'd out him as Valor. Frankly, with Batista sticking him in the Valor suit, that's pretty much entirely unavoidable - if he's not thought to be Valor, he's a heretic that would catch a LOT of heat from worshippers (and since DnA hinted at going there in Worlds #1 anyway, that's one of the areas I think Foundations got derailed by Wacker). This would probably end with him leaving the team and heading to the Kwai galaxy "permanently". Obviously, Triad would have a major role - focusing on how she's actually got away from seeing him as divine after spending a couple of years around him - and Superboy would have to be dragged in as well, between Foundations and his part in the Valor's fake "rescue", and I'd take the chance to get rid of him back to the past if possible.
• Kinetix - yeah, Terrorform Kinetix was a broken character. The plot problem with reverting her is that the obvious opportunities were spent in #17-18, so doing so would threaten to be plothammery. As such, I don't see much option but to own that and have her revert on page 1 of #35 - probably in the middle of a fight, being wounded in the process since, hey, major shock. The plot thereafter wouldn't be medical treatment per se, but almost like the aftermath of a Faustian pact - Zoe got more power than she'd ever had, but at the cost of pretty much everything else about her. What the hell does THAT thought do to her head? Especially since this is the second time something like that's happened, after the Anomaly. Honestly, given the Anomaly thing and the handwavy "back to normal" way that was fixed... I'm not entirely sure she's salvageable as an ongoing character. Remembering future-Andromeda's reaction to seeing her when they were in the timestream in LSH #91, Dark Kinetix and death may loom...

After that, probably a single issue entirely set amongst the Cadets, with the Legionnaires appearing only as teachers or background characters. Amp Girl/Babbage/Retro would obviously be the leads, since they were set up as the "main" cadets in #25, but it would be an opportunity to play with some of the unnamed guys from the crowd shot of that issue. Probably stay clear of Polar Boy and Stone Boy though, for much the same reason I wouldn't want to bring in Dirk - this isn't the preboot. Just because a character was prominent in a different version of the team over a decade beforehand doesn't mean they should be prominent in THIS version. Actually, you know the Legionnaire I'd most like to have interacting with the kids for this story? XS. She was probably the LEAST grown-up of the first couple of waves of the team, so sticking her in the authority position here would be fun, in a way that Lyle or Cos wouldn't be.

Next, well, Kinetix's increasing corruption would bring her back in contact with a certain Eye, missing since its Atomic Axing back in #16. And with the handwavy-depowerment DnA gave it, she would win and dominate it like Mordru once did, while presenting it as having escaped. But since it was depowered, she'd need more, and there are rumours of a second Eye out there. Against that subplot, I'd like to have a romp for a main plot for a couple of issues. Just grab a few of the more serious team members - Lyle, Cos, Imra, Jazmin, Val, B5 and Gates [any time you need some moaning, Gates is yer insect ;)] - and throw them through something high-energy, relatively low-stakes [I'm imagining a version of Marvel's Collector with the attitude of a carnival barker]. And reintroduce Andromeda as part of it - still a nun, but with the Anomaly changes wearing off so that she's somewhere between her original and shrunken selves. Since the future Sister Andromeda's the kickoff for the Dark Kinetix thing, going to need her in a few issues' time.

Then the following arc. Kinetix is on the team for this one, along with Vi, Spark and a few others, who are growing increasingly worried about the post-Terrorform Zoe's attitude, but aren't yet thinking along Emerald Vi lines - instead, they're focusing on whether she's not recovered yet. I'd actually like to bring in Lori (*hears boos*) for this arc. She's McCauley's adopted daughter, so presumably she's inherited McCauley's holdings, and calls in the Legion to help right something her "dad" did. Take this chance to bring in the Fatal Five if I can justify them escaping prison, and reveal that WTF they were gabbling about in #15-16 is related to this. End with a Mano... not exactly "face-turn", but let him escape and leave him as an anti-villain of sorts, hunting down other "McCauleys", while the Empress & Persuader get captured, I'd be very, very tempted to kill off Tharok (if not allowed, he gets caught too). And have Validus "die", while Kinetix actually takes him as a pet. Really destroy the "classic" FFive (inasmuch as the next guy won't just "forget" it anyway, at least).

And so we come to the Fall of Kinetix. Right at the start, Mysa comes crashing in to warn everybody about Zoe. Against tradition, she DOESN'T get intercepted, and basically the rest of the arc is a giant chase sequence trying to catch Zoe before she tracks down the second, fully-powered Eye. Along the way, Sister Andromeda, the Cadets, Atmos, Insect Queen (implicitly, everyone else we met on Xanthu got killed off in the Robotica War given their utter failure to show up otherwise), the Martian Manhunter (his own book established he's around in the postboot LSH era), RJ Brande and anyone else I can rope in get enlisted to various extents. #49 ends with a big climax, involving Star Boy apparently being killed in a burst of green light. And then we dial it all back, with issue 50 as a two-hander, just Violet and Kinetix in a "locked room". Best friends, no powers, just words and fists (and, yes, they would properly beat the **** out of each other to the absolute limit of what I'd be allowed to do in a way girls are rarely shown to do). One shall stand, one shall fall...

As a Kinetix fan this plot outline breaks my heart, but I have to add that is an impressive and interesting couple of years' worth of stories.

Lori as McCauley's heir, righting wrongs, sounds great.

I approve of Mano as anti-villain as well.

XS and the Cadets sounds like a ton of fun too.

I haven't thought yet about how I'd deal with the Legion from either the end of Issue 33, 34 or 38. I did spend a lot of time planning how to salvage the Legion from Legion of 3 Worlds, with "destroyed" universe and all, and said plotting is outlined in my Fanfic Recap thread (see signature below for link).

PS: I agree that any author should not feel the need to address plotlines like Dirk Morgna and Dyrk Magz (as both are relatively healthy and in no danger of death), and bring in members who were Preboot mainstays (Polar Boy, etc.) I did a lot of those things, but only because I wanted to and there are many Reboot original characters who would make good Legionnaires.

You know what the funny thing is? When I started the post, I had no intention of going Dark Kinetix Saga. The problem I ran up against is that I only saw three resolutions to Terrorform Kinetix:

1. She's "Back To Normal"-ed
2. She's left depressed (or something of the sort) and takes a break from the team
3. She rededicates herself to pursuing power for (reasons), while staying herself.

#1 has the dual problem of being undramatic, and also repetitive - having been done with her after the very similar Anomaly mess.

#2 I thought about, but I'm already writing out Valor, Superboy and hammering Apparition pretty hard (with her being a third dead! And the Cub stuff) in this scenario. There's no contrast if I do something similar with Zoe.

That leaves #3. And trying to do it sympathetically... would be hard. Granted, some of the results may be a touch similar to Emerald Vi in places, but one of the things I'd be trying to counter that with would be keeping the reader - if not the characters - in the loop with Zoe at all times. Otherwise, it's all in the general execution.

Actually, slightly tempted to make the chasing involve a lot of time travel to spice it up. Visit the 2019 New Team Titans we see in the collapsing timestream of #30, the original five Legionnaires sometime shortly after the #0 issues and reveal what the hell the thing with the Legion and future-Max Mercury was. Maybe save a character or two from Robotica in the process.


I was thinking sixteen issues (#35-50). Just over a year

Yep.

and then promptly sever any remaining connections to 2004, DC universe. Ra's? Computo hologram. "Superboy?" Computo hologram.


or Imra wakes up and those and the merging were all part of a bad dream induced by Nardo's mental ambushing.

Can I just point here that, amongst other things, postboot Computo is inherently tied to the "present-day" DCU. Since he's half-Doc Magnus, half-mother box and whole-lived the entire time between ~2000 and ~3000

Can I just say I love the idea for this thread FL!

I haven't read anyone's responses yet because it's late here in Australia and I'm about to go to bed, but I look forward to doing so tomorrow, and adding my own .2 cents.

The tragic thing is that I already know that whatever you've all written will be infinitely better than the dreck that was the Threeboot.

Yeah, one just doesn't walk away from the Emerald Eye with no consequences. And having Zoe not learn some sort of lesson from the brush with power would not be endearing.

In hindsight, having Superboy-Prime blow her up and having Mordru absorb her actually made it a bit easier for me to bring Zoe back to normal AND restore their universe (though admittedly, having Zoe absorb all the magic in an entire universe was a bit of a stretch, but Legion of 3 Worlds gave me that card so I used it).

Blacula, thank you for the kind words, and I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts.

Reboot, your stories and structure sound fantastic to me. Thanks a trillion. Like Ibby, I'm a Kinetix fan, but I can see where you're coming from and accept it. Big thumbs up from me for Lori-As-Heir-to-McCauley; I've never understood the hatred for her. And besides, with all these new responsibilities, she'd grow up but fast.

My own plans are still hazy ATM, but what would you guys think of Umbra as one of the main instructors, maybe a "Good-Cop-Bad-Cop" thing between XS and her? With her having matured, and embraced her destiny, and finally having shed the remaining traces of xenophobia and isolationism as of #24 (my favorite issue of the DnA monthly series by far), I think she might find a new direction in life as a harsh-but-fair taskmistress.

Funny, considering I literally thought it up as I typed it out


Could work, but I wasn't thinking of the Legionnaires as the day-in, day-out staff. They're mentors, and run occasional field trips and so on, but some other guys would need to be brought in to run things on a day-to-day basis. Would she step down as a Legionnaire to do that?

[In the Cadets issue I mentioned, it wasn't going to be an XS spotlight - hell, until I thought of the XS thing, it was going to be cameos-only for the LSH. If you look at Academy X as a model, she'd be in the role of a Dani Moonstar or Karma for the issue - there, but the spotlight firmly on the new guys.]

Sometimes, that's the best way to do something creative. I've done what I consider some of my best writing that way.



Thanks for clarifying that. Yes, I'd definitely like to see XS and Umbra stepping down as Legionnaires to become the odd-couple Headmistresses of the Legion Academy.

Make as many irrelevant points you want.

Since we get to pretend what WE want, that's what I want. So, no, Computo isn't inherently tied to anything.

Most people living in a practical work accept few absolutes. Of course there's no keeping "present day" DCU from using ideas from 31st century DCU or imagining there is absolutely no connection between the two millennia any less than there is between now and a thousand years ago. Most people give leeway for a little imprecision and realize that in no way negates the generality.

The recap thread to my fanfic is pretty long, so I'll make a summary of the summary here.

It's very long and would have to be compressed for the comic book format.

This fanfic picks up after Legion of 3 Worlds. All events that happened there (and also in Legion 34 to 38) are considered canon - XS and Gates stayed in the Retroboot Legion's universe, Kinetix is "dead", Wildfire's energy is slowly being drained, Live Wire and Andromeda are back in their original forms and with their original powers (I took the liberty of assuming Garth gave up his transmutation powers as I don't remember him using them after reverting). This fic also assumes that the Reboot Legion's universe really was destroyed (I started writing before Legion of 3 Worlds, so imagine the headache I had when it came out!)

Volume 1 (Loss): Looks at the universe trying to cope with the loss of the Legion.

I have a new Legion: Nightwind (leader), Infectious Lass, Blizzard (Polar Boy), Babbage, Magnetic Kid, the White Witch (Lady Mysa), Impulse (Kent Shakespeare), Lume, Particon, and Spider-Girl (who just joined). Chuck Taine works with them but is non-powered. Other supporting cast members who work with the Legion include Dyrk Magz, Shvaughn Erin, Gigi Cusimano, Tenzil Kem, Lori Morning (minus her H-Dial), RJ Brande, Marla Latham, Proty, Dr. Ryk'rr, Dr. Gym'll and Winema Wazzo.

Major developments in this volume include the Legion expanding into humanitarian and social works, such as medical missions to poorer planets. Individual Legionnaires have also left behind their legacies, such as Wildfire donating a portion of his

Volume 2 (Scattered Souls): Looks at how the Reboot Legionnaires are coping with their predicaments. XS' mosaic is shown to be the result of future knowledge implanted by the Time Trapper of their universe. She rescues Gates and the Legion Lost 2 team from their 20th century.

At the same time, Mordru (absorbed by the Black Witch of the Retroboot team) tries to access Kinetix's magic from inside Black Witch. The resulting struggle causes Black Witch to expel both Mordru and Kinetix from inside her. XS, Gates and the Retroboot Legion battle against Mordru and his magical 20th century slaves to restore Kinetix's memory. After a tough battle, they succeed - Zoe traps Mordru and regains her memory and access to all her powers. With a restored Mysa's help, Zoe unleashes all the magic she absorbed from the Reboot universe... recreating it completely.

Time passes more quickly within the recreated universe, so that both it and the castaway Legionnaires would have experienced one full year.

Volume 3 (Homecoming): Getting the team back together!

A powerful villain attacks Legion World with an army. The new Legionnaires plus several support staff (including Cadet Mentalla, Amazer Insect Queen, Chuck, Tenzil, Shvaughn and Dyrk Magz) and a returned Thunder escape into the Retroboot Universe. They retrieve the other Reboot Legionnaires.

The reunited team invades Legion World in an epic battle.

The big bad is revealed to be a Monitor (which is why the Legion was able to breach the barriers between universes) and experiments on some of the captives - giving Chemical Kid (Condo Arlik) his powers, restoring the abilities of Dragonmage and Dirk Morgna, and enhancing those of Amp Girl. During the battles, Dyrk Magz also regains his powers and Chuck Taine gains his.

In the final climactic battle, the Monitor kidnaps Live Wire and Kinetix, takes them to the Rosette (scene of the final battle against the Progenitor) and reverts them into their Progenitor and Terrorform versions, respectively. He tries to harness the powers of the Progenitor and Omniphagos, but instead resurrects... Monstress, who is trapped in a crystalline body (like what happened to Garth) and now possesses the powers of Element Lad! The combined Legionnaires just manage to stop the Monitor and his army. The Monitor escapes, possibly to plague the Legion again...

... and the Legion is reunited and renewed.

Thanks, Ibby.

(And I'm sorry I'm still so far behind on reading your stories proper. It's just been such a crazy year!)

I hope I don't seem too critical, but your saga seems a little too fan-wish-fulfillment-y for my taste, with too many powerful dramatic moments from earlier stories undone (i.e. Monstress's death). Of course, it could also be argued that all fan fiction is wish fulfillment at its core, and I can also appreciate that this is by far your favorite iteration of the Legion, so you're less inclined to "Kill Your Darlings", as the saying goes.

Thanks Fanfie, and no worries about being behind. No worries either about the comment, as there was no real reason to bring Monstress back. That said, plot threads in the story gave me an opening, and I have been told that some developments such as Monstress' return, Magno's and Chuck's empowerment, Thunder's return and Kinetix's resurrection were executed well.

I also don't take offense at the term "wish fulfillment", as I accept and acknowledge that. Although I do try to write a good story, ultimately I write for myself. (I had to stop myself from letting Ferro turn into flesh again and from restoring Sensor to her original form, though I did fix Wildfire's energy-draining problem ) I think among the writers maintaining series now, I have the largest and the most powerful team.

Still, it is a valid comment and I thank you for sharing it. I would love to hear any additional input you may have after you read that far too.

I like a lot of the ideas presented in this thread so far, but am less enamoured with others. And some I think will just keep continuing the damage to the property that DnA began. I hope no one takes offense to any criticisms I offer here, just like I won't take offence to any criticisms you offer me.

First things first, I'm not a fan-fiction writer or reader so my ideas run more along the lines of identifying problems that I feel need addressing, rather than outlining my own story beats and grand ideas about moving the property forward.

Second things second, let's not let the hideousness of the Threeboot cloud our recollections that the Reboot was in serious, serious trouble by the time it ended. At the time, I considered DnA's work on the property unfathomably, unbearably, abominably terrible and that under their pens, the property had become fatally broken. When I heard about the Threeboot, I welcomed it with open arms. Now of course, I wish they'd given the Reboot one more go. But I will never forgive DnA for destroying one of my favourite universes in all of fiction (no matter how much I may have loved their earlier work in it).

---

My thoughts on the ideas presented in this thread...

Kappa Kid

* I like those ideas but neither seem like priorities to fix the franchise. While I wouldn't rule out Dirk from joining the team one day, I think he works better as an occasional supporting character at this stage. Tinya's third body definitely needs addressing at some point but part of me would want to leave it until the second year of a 're-invigoration' of the property. However, I agree with Reboot that the mess that is the relationship between Tinya, Jo, Brin and that stupid super-growth baby Cub is something that needs addressing ASAP, and this plot point could conveniently be resolved as part of that story.

Reboot

* IMO, Jarth is the absolute number one problem that needs addressing with the Reboot. This steaming turd of a character needs to go and then never be mentioned again ASAP! It's been many years since I read these comics but is there any chance that Jarth could be neither Jan nor Garth but some weird shape-shifting alien trying to infiltrate the Legion? However it happens, I would get Jarth out of my pages immediately and leave both Jan and Garth dead. Both of them died in great scenes that had meaning and impact and I still cannot believe that any competent, professional writer thought bringing in a Frankenstein monstrosity of them would ever appeal to... anyone.

* Rokk, Dyrk and Vi - I like your ideas re: the former two but agree they're not priorities. The total mess that is LeViathan absolutely needs fixing IMO though... and no guesses as to how I would go about doing it. Obviously I'm biased here but Gim's ridiculously stupid death at the hands of Vi (the excuse that she was "under the influence" of the Emerald Eye does not cut it with me any more than it would have if she was "under the influence" of alcohol or crystal meth) needs correcting and restoring both of these characters to their original versions would solve the problem of Vi stupidly standing around in her stolen giant form power all the time too.

* M'onel - Unless I'm forgetting something, I don't see what harm he was doing to the Legion, or why he'd need to be gotten rid of? I'd keep him around. Superboy on the other hand, I would get rid of very quickly and then only have appear *very* sparingly afterward (like, once every two years or so).

* Kinetix - Yep, Terraform Kinetix was completely broken and though I loved the real Zoe, DnA already killed her.

* The Cadets - Don't like this idea sorry. The last thing the Legion needed at this point was two dozen new characters. DnA were completely foolish introducing them. Not only because of how much the concept of being mentors/instructors instantly ages the real Legionnaires, but because we already had WAY too many characters being under-served in the pages already. The idea of the Legion Academy is interesting (and I loved that Showcase story that introduced this version of it) but I think it's ultimately detrimental to the property.

* Andromeda - Good to see her back but the Anomaly changes and the nun bit has got to go IMO.

* Lori - Though I do hate her and consider her the worst part of the second worst period in Reboot history after latter-period DnA (the PMS era), I would actually be very interested to see what could be done with her after all the McAuley developments DnA introduced. I am a *huge* Work Force fan so I would put her in charge of that team and keep them as occasional antagonists/allies of the Legion.

Blockade Boy

* I agree. The ever increasing 21st century elements that were seeping into this franchise (Ra's al Ghul ) were becoming nothing but detrimental IMO. I would sever all connection to the 21st century completely (bar the very occasional appearance by Superboy).

Fanfic Lady

* While I love Umbra (despite the name and the age-inappropriate Lightle costume) and would welcome some more development for her, I'm not a fan of turning her into anyone's instructor. Firstly, because, as already mentioned, it ages her (and I like the Reboot Legionnaires as youthful characters), and secondly, because it instantly casts her as a secondary character to whomever she's instructing (who are usually the characters going on the 'journey' and therefore central to the story).

Invisible Brainiac

* As you've mentioned, it's more of a fanfic than a "how to fix the Reboot Legion" but I enjoyed reading it.

---

IMO these are the absolute musts for turning the Reboot Legion from the broken drek it was into a functioning property again:

1. Jarth - Get rid of him as fast as possible and in any way possible. Leave Garth and Jan dead. Mourn them but do not mention Jarth ever again.

2. Tinya/Jo/Brin/Cub - Fix this mess of a relationship. Tinya and Jo's love had previously been portrayed as so strong it transcended death. And yet, I felt none of that under DnA (post-Lost). And letting Brin name their baby was ridiculous. And giving that baby the cliched accelerated growth was even more ridiculous.

3. LeVIathan - People may disagree with me here, but the fact remains that the Legion all seem to be perfectly fine with the fact that one of their teammates killed another of their teammates ("under the influence" or whatever) and then conveniently inherited his powers. This is just so wrong and needs addressing IMO. This'll be the most fan-fictiony part of this post but I had an idea for a story years ago that a sub-plot would develop whereby visitors to whatever planet it was that Gim and Regulus "died" on would be being found mysteriously burned. The Legion would eventually visit to uncover the mystery and find that Regulus had become the planet! Meaning that the Legion now had the living sun Regulus as an enemy! (And I had this idea years before Morrison invented Solaris, I'll have you know! haha) He had survived because whatever those chemicals were that Gim melted him with hadn't actually killed him but let him absorb himself into the planet and he had spent years regathering his strength. (The story would eventually lead to the Legion having to find a Sun-Eater to stop him, in a cool spin on that first Fatal Five story, but that's for another day.) Realising Regulus had survived would obviously lead the Legion to Shanghalla to find out what happened to Gim, and there they would find his grave empty, as if someone had crawled out of it. Dun dun dun! And so on.

---

I know there were more problems that needed fixing but because it's been years since I read these stories, I'm forgetting what they are right now and I need to go out to do some Christmas shopping. I'll add them later if I remember them.

I think these (and the next point) are both coloured by what you think the LSH "should" be. I'm a great believer in the principle that, if you take over a continuity in progress, you work with how you find it and don't, say, have Spider-Man sell his marriage to the devil to keep his dying aunt who was already killed once before and already told him to let her go alive so as to make him single again and always have been...

At most, I might look into Garth finding a sculptor. He's made of crystal, after all, can make more to give stuff to chip away, and can't revert to human - so, unlike Ferro in that issue where he tries to get plastic surgery, there's no reason not to.

[PS: Imra, Ayla and so on find electrically-charged crystals in the remains of the Progenitor/Omniphagos creature. Ayla ultimately puts them on Jazmin's memorial to Jan, made from the memory-crystals Jan left to explain what had happened between Rifts & Lost. The two are shown to react, and Cos & Imra drop by later on to find "Jarth".]


Here's the thing about that - Vi didn't kill Gim. She wished for him (and the others) to get their whatever they most wanted, not knowing what those wishes were. Those weren't all destructive - for instance, Live Wire wanted his arm back and he got it. Dirk Morgna wanted rid of his uncontrollable powers. And so on. The problem with Gim was that he had a death wish he wasn't advertising. Really, the most disturbing wish that was granted was Cham's, when you think about it. Especially since that was pretty much the only one that stuck.

Also, I'm working on "dead means dead" and "no takebacks" principles. That doesn't mean I'd undo existing resurrections for the sake of it, but no-one else who had been confirmed dead would get revived on my watch. Nor reverted to their original powerset.


I don't see that as a problem. An underexplored character point, perhaps, but not a problem.


Why he needs to go can be summed up in one word: Valor. He's wearing the Valor costume, that requires him to either be outed as, y'know, a living god worshipped on many worlds, and whose fake-rescue triggered riots; or treated as a heretic who's copping Valor's ID for his own use. Either way, his presence is going to be destructive to the team. It's a situation where I think Batista (who pushed for the costume) and DnA wrote him into an absolute corner, so he needs to go.

[And TMK having him announce to the world(s) that, yep, he's Valor but don't worship him was an utter cop-out. Fanatics wouldn't just go "okay then".]


Well, the founding members of team had already been Legionnaires for as long as a university degree at this point! And I think it serves a book like the Legion well to introduce new characters fairly frequently and actually go through with a conveyor-belt mentality to team membership - actually rotating characters off the team entirely, especially when you have nothing to do with them, not just out of the spotlight. You can always bring them back later if you get a really great idea.

Tl;dr: The Legion isn't the Fantastic Four, which should "always" have a fixed membership.


Pretty much stuck with the nun bit, unfortunately. LSH #91 showed a much older Sister Andromeda as still a nun during the timestream trips.

Thank you Blacula, I'm glad you enjoyed it I certainly enjoyed plotting it out and writing it - eases the sting of losing the Reboot Legion.



I too would have Violet use her shrinking powers more often, but I don't think changes need to be made to Vi to do this. In Legion 32-33 DNA was already having her shrink a lot fighting against the Credo.



LSH 91 is definitely a problem if your take off point is anywhere from Legion 32 to 38. Thankfully, Andromeda's appearance in her old form in the Fatal 500 story lets me ignore LSH 91 for the time being. Nothing says she can't leave the Sisters and return later on (she could still do that even without Fatal 500, but her actions would have to be tempered assuming she will eventually become a nun again). Also, she was at her original height in LSH 91, allowing us to reverse the physical changes wrought by the Anomaly at least (which is a point Reboot makes already).



Besides Gim's death you mean I suppose only the wishes directly granted by the Eye (Brainy becoming essentially invisible to everyone, Garth's restored arm, Triad splitting into three unique individuals) were reversed.

Now as for Cham, I guess you mean Ayla returning his affections? Are we certain this was due to the Eye? Spark warmed towards Cham after he saved her from being blasted by Inferno, I'm inclined to believe she was grateful and forgiving, rather than that she was influenced by the Eye.



Sadly, M'Onel in his Valor costume was seen not just by the Credo, but also by a ton of people on Legion World. I chose to ignore it in my fic, but that requires assuming that he only wore his costume in closed team meeting sessions or in battle vs. the Credo where nobody would know its significance - quite a stretch, I know.



I have had occasional trouble juggling so many characters in my fanfic, so I agree that it can be a challenge working with an Academy in comic books. Still, I think a skilled and careful writer could make such a large cast work. And given the Legion's role in the universe I think it makes sense that the Legion would want to train more super-powered youths.



You might be happy to know that I had the Monitor lobotomize Ra's in my fic, while transferring Ra's knowledge to himself This allowed my villain the attempt at hijacking the Hypertaxis process for himself and try to resurrect the Progenitor - leading to Monstress' return.

I would also dump Superboy and have him appear very, very rarely. The way he was written under DNA infuriated me.


I think XS and Umbra and others occasionally teaching classes would be fun to write, but I agree I'd rather have non-Legionnaires handle the Academy full-time.



I like your ideas for Regulus, Blacula, and think they could work if executed well.

I would also love to have Gim come back in a way that made sense. I'm curious though as to how you'd manage it? Regulus' body was melted into liquid at the end of LSH 83, whereas Gim's wasn't - Gim's corpse was sadly very damaged and very real. Along with Kid Quantum I and Element Lad, I had given Gim up for "dead" dead because of how he died. (Unlike Monstress, where I used the excuse that Jan could have transmuted her body to dust but left her consciousness somehow alive :p)

At the risk of double-posting, I would like to add my apologies as my fanfic recap does not quite address Fanfie's original post:

1) I didn't start out in 2004 at the end of the Postboot series, but took off after Legion of 3 Worlds;

2) And very admittedly, it was a fanfic recap, and not really a "how to fix the Postboot Legion".

My brain is still a bit fried from three weeks' worth of overtime, but hopefully I'll be able to think a bit over the holidays and come up with contributions that actually tackle the original question.

No need to apologize, Ibby.

I didn't bring it up only because I was afraid I might hurt your feelings.

Looking forward to your further thoughts, whenever you feel rested and have the opportunity.

Thank you Fanfie, that is very kind of you. I'm happy I was able to share my fanfic ideas though, despite not really addressing the topic.

Boy, plotting a comic book (or any other story!) sure is hard work!

That is so true, Ibby. It's the feedback that makes it worth all the effort, IMO.

And thank you for posting the link to this thread in Bits.

My pleasure, Fanfie. The more ideas, the merrier!

I have to say that I actually appreciate Titans/Legion and Legion of 3 Worlds, if only for making it easier to fix Kinetix and Live Wire and Andromeda. (the story was still terrible though).

With Kinetix, I can use her death experience and absorption by Mordru to justify her giving up her reckless quest for power. It also made it easier to restore her to her original form and personality.

With Live Wire, 3 Worlds already restored him to his original form.

With Andromeda, Titans/Legion showed her back in her old form, so that's that. I just needed to invent an explanation.

Thinking back to where the Legion was at the end of the DNA run (whether or not you count Legion 34 to 38)...

Kinetix and Jarth are musts to fix. I would have Kinetix expend all her Hypertaxis energy (that's how the other Terrorforms were restored in Legion 18-19) and give up her quest for power because she would reflect on how she "lost" herself as a Terrorform. As precedent, I would use Legionnaires 48-50 and LSH 120-121; in both instances she encountered the Emerald Eye but had not a single thought about taking its power for herself. LSH 116-118 can be used as added evidence; she was briefly empowered by Eternium, but again willingly gave it up to help Thunder restore the Rock of Eternity. I would take it a step further though, and have her realize that she wanted power mainly to a) feel perfect, and b) help others; both of which she can do without wielding power. I would have her turn to philanthropic activities (in fact, in my fic I had her set up a school for fashion and design!)

As for Jarth, I really don't know. His actions in Legion 25-30 (helping against Darkseid) and 32-33 (giving himself up to the Credo) already redeemed him in the eyes of the team (as if he needed redeeming!! he didn't do anything wrong!). But I'm not sure how else to "fix" him. Unlike with Kinetix, Jarth isn't so easy to fix and it would require a monumental event. I would probably keep him as is for the time being, until a story opportunity presented itself - probably with a mega powerful villain. Perhaps a returned Sharn Nux, whose fate at the end of Legion 14 (sort of merged with COMPUTO and sent to a mysterious time/place) is another major dangling plot.

The Cub debacle is something else to fix, but Reboot fixed it so well with his story that I would just take his idea and run with it.

Wildfire is another I would like to address, as his fate (unlike Ferro's or Sensor's) is life-threatening. He has a finite lifespan now. I would have him revisit the Anti-Matter Universe to try and see if he can replenish himself using his used-up energy.

Ra's is another big problem, if only for the fact that he's an incredibly dangerous immortal 20th century villain stuck on Legion World. I can live with him being a 20th century character. But he already escaped and wrought havok on Legion World once. I'd simply have him moved to a more secure prison. Maybe keep him in a psychic illusion like what they did to Universo at the end of Dream Crime (Legion 23).

Star Boy's weird bouts of weakness is another thing I'd like to address, especially as we've been seeing it since Legion 19 with no clear resolution. Dreamer's vision of his grave also. I'd have the two take some time off to investigate. I'm not so happy with the fate that Starman v2 79-80 chose for him. Not for this Thom. I would say that it's an alternate future for him. Maybe Thom and Nura could get caught up in a multiversal adventure (alternate Star Boy with his starfield costume can be the key to that). Thom's health issues would be explained by him overstraining himself in Legion 12-14. He could heal by stepping down from active duty for a while. Thom and Nura would talk about her vision, and Thom would be like "oh, who knows when it will come to pass, you can't say when, right? it could be a monument erected to me after you all thought I was dead. it could be decades in the future. I still love you, and let's live life as it is." They could take a short break from the team.

I would also look into adding some promising cadets to the team. Nightwind and Infectious Lass come to mind right away, as they did well in Legion 35-38. Probably just those two for now; as Blacula said, the team is large and many members are underexposed.

Besides that, I don't think there are any really pressing issues to address in-story. Rather, a lot of the problems with DNA also came from grand sweeping storylines that ultimately failed to deliver.

I'd shift the focus of the next year's worth of stories to smaller groups of Legionnaires dealing with smaller-scale issues; I'd also explore how the galaxy has changed as a result of the opening up of the Kwai Galaxy; introduction of the Thresholds; and the Titanet system. Things like the Legion helping with the development of poorer plants (now that the Threshold cuts transport time and costs significantly); reaching out to the Kwai Galaxy and recruiting Legion Cadets (and maybe another Legionnaire or two!) from there; looking at how new legislation regulates Titanet use, and also at how the UP deals with the Roboticans. I'd also introduce restrictions on the Daxamites; after the White Triangle Saga, I would think the UP would have some safeguards (in my fic, I posited that Daxamites would be fitted with a device that bathes them in red sunlight while offworld so they could not access their powers, though they would still have enhanced durability and peak-human strength so they could defend themselves if attacked).

I have some ideas for a major villain leading up to the 50th issue, but as I'll use that in my ongoing fic I will hold off on sharing for now

For starters I agree with Reboot,that when you take over a title you inherent what they did and I wouldn't undo it unless there was a real story there to do so.

If I was handed the title after DNA, there are many things I would like to do. Even though i'd Be taking over for DNA I'd like to included the issues by Gail Simone as transitional issues and so will be in continuity.

First things first,

Superboy has to go. I'd have Brainy figure out when to send him back to and then keep his appearances limited.

Send Ra's far far away get rid of him. don't care how.

Next up is Kinetix.- Kinetix reverts back to her “normal” self and no longer powered by Hypertaxis energies and seemingly powerless by extending it in and effort to terraform another planet by herself. But true form Kinetix feels lost without her connection to the Universe and it has her searching for something… whether it be power, a new identity...or something else.

Zoe spends hours trying to research ways to get her connection back to the universe, when she and Ferro really interact and he tells her his tale of trying to find answers as well to fix his face and to help try and return him back to flesh and not just living iron.
Sensor and Zoe bond over the fact that they were both changed by Hypertaxis energy. But each has a different perspective on it. Sensor hates how it changed her and Zoe just wants it back.
The three of them decide to take a small trip to Sorcerer’s World, to find Mysa and see what she can do for Zoe. Here Zoe learns that her powers are not gone but reverted back to normal.
During this encounter Mysa realizes she would like to join the Legion officially. She’s realized that she misses the camaraderie of people who try to do good deeds. Plus this way she will be able to keep a closer eye on Mordru's chamber for she has been having dreams of him escaping. The legion at this point doesn't have a magic wielder and thinks it could be an asset.
This story also shows the dynamic between Zoe and Mysa and how it’s changed since their first meeting.

A sister in need
I'd have Sister Andromeda return to the Legion fold. Still having her energy manipulating powers from the anomaly, the sister has begun to have trouble using them and is seemingly wearing herself out. She comes to ask Brainiac 5 for help, in either understanding the new powers and how they work or in helping her revert back to her former self.
Conclusion: Brianiac 5 decides to help her revert back to her former self. But to do so, he must contact the Time Trapper. Unsure how to do this, he uses a time plant form to try and reach the end of time. He doesn’t find the Time Trapper right away. But instead finds merged Sara Nux/the evolved Computo and they are in the service of the TT. Brainy battles Sara Nux/computo and manages to outwit them. The TT agrees to change Andromeda back after Brainy wins. But at a cost... the TT will call on him to do a favor at some point and Brainy must do it. Brainy agrees to do it, in order to save Andromeda's life.
Andromeda agrees to come back to the Legion Full time, and to continue with testing to make sure she’s ok.

Then followed by a big story about the Legion's first traitor:( still working out thoughts and kinks on this one.)
Assassination: Since Brande’s return from the second galaxy there have been numerous attempts on his life over the past month. There have been attempts before but not like this. They are happening more frequently and faster paced and more deadly.
The Legion has been put in charge of protecting R.J. and they are doing everything in their power to try and keep him safe. He’s under constant surveillance 24/7. Every seven hours the shifts switch.
Each team is comprised of four (4) members.
Team 1: Brainic 5, Spark, Triad, and Timber Wolf
Team 2: Xs, Invisible Kid, Mon’el, and Cosmic Boy
Team 3: Gear, Sensor, Ferro, and Kinetix
Team 4: Kid Quantum II, Saturn Girl, Karate Kid, and Live Wire
Team 5: Shikari, Apparition, Ultra Boy, and Chameleon
Team 6: Umbra, Gates, Violet, and Andromeda
Team 7: Wildfire, Star boy, Dreamer and Erin Shavaung.

The team still also has to still deal with their daily activities and saving the United Planets.
The legion is running themselves ragged trying to do both, but the attempts just keep coming and the perpetrators just seem to always be one step ahead of the legion and never get caught.
The Legion finally decides that using the whole team is no longer effective. They decide to put R.J. into hiding and use a smaller squad to protect him.
The smaller squad consisted of Sensor, Invisible Kid, Dreamer, Mon’el, and Umbra. They move him from planet to planet; secure area to secure area because every time they feel/think they are safe the whole mission is compromised.
The other half of the story line deals with how no one including the Legion knows who is making the attempts or how. They have pieces of the puzzle but can’t see how they fit together and who is helping the killers. Can they find out before it’s too late?
Conclusion: it’s too late the Legion has lost its greatest ally, financial backer, and friend. R.J. has been killed. The squad in charge of protecting him did everything they could, but it wasn’t enough. But with his death the killer has been discovered to be Science Police officer _________.
Invisible kid spy’s Science Police officer __________wiring credits to an anonymous account. This brings him to suspect that Science Police officer _________has an accomplice who is associated with the Legion in some way. Invisible Kid, starts looking into various security logs on Legion world and sees that a Legion authorization code has been used multiple times. But also that various legion tracking devices were reported missing from Legion world/science police headquarters.
Part one: first attempt
Part 2: watch around the clock
Part 3: into hiding
Part 4: cat and mouse
Part 5: discovered

This is followed by a goodbye to RJ. issue or maybe two?
Farwell and Revelations:
R.J.’s funeral is set into motion and his memory is honored. Throughout the story various Legion members, U.P. delegates, and others share memories and moments of the part of his funeral.
Also R.J.’s past is completely revealed to the Legion, President Wazzo and a few others. His secrets need to stay a secret though, because some of them could endanger the safety of the entire Galaxy. His death has many repercussions for the U.P, and various legion members.
R.J.’s will is read to the Legion, Marlo, and a few U.P. delegates with ties to R.J. The will names Triad as his beneficiary and she has to decide what to do with his estate.
Decisions, Decisions: this part is all about Triad and what she is going to do. Plus Triad has decided to take a leave of absence from the team to help figure all of it out. She has to figure out if she is going to run R.J.’s company/estate and if so what does that mean for her. She remembers times growing up with R.J. she also gets a taste of what it would be like to be the most powerful and richest person in the Galaxy and the responsibilities that go along with that. Also there are several people trying to contest the will.
Who did it? :
With R.J.’s killer caught and the fact known that someone associated within the Legion helped them and no one knows who, everyone is a suspect.
Invisible Kid has to use all his spy skills and detective know how to find out whom the accomplice is. Who do you trust when everyone, including yourself is a suspect? As Invisible kid is hot on the trail of discovery to who helped kill R.J. he has no final proof to convict the person. But all the clues point to one person and that person is Marlo. Finally the perpetrator makes a mistake and it looks like everything will finally be resolved or is it? But something doesn’t feel right to Invisible kid.
The Finale Betrayal:
With Invisible Kid’s investigation heating up the whole team is called away on a mission; something that doesn’t happen very often. An entire population needs rescuing according to the distress calls. Invisible Kid stays behind to continue his work.
When the Legion gets there they find that they are trapped on this planet. As they search the planet for its population and as they go each member starts to disappear. While on this mission the traitors true colors start to show. This spells the end for one member specifically, Sensor. The traitor is revealed to be Gear.
Invisible kid finally put all the clues together and arrives just in time to try and save the team. But he gets trapped on the planet as well. As he finds his teammates, he discovers that they all are in pretty bad shape. It also turns out that the one member who this all spells trouble for is Sensor, in the worst shape of all. He’s left for last. Can Invisible Kid and Sensor stop the traitor once and for all?
Conclusion: the traitor is stopped… barely. Invisible Kid is hurt pretty bad and is out of commission for a while. Gear is taken down and locked away at Talkon Galctos prison planet. Sensor is in a comma and may not come out; she’s trapped in one of her own illusions. Gear reflected her power back at her. Gear’s intention was to kill her. It turns out it was a failsafe program the Pernius had implanted into him before he was defeated by the Legion, when they retrieved the rock of eternity. Even though Gear was under someone else's control, the Legion isn't sure if they can ever trust him again or is the programming within him is completely dormant. Also how can they ever look him in the eye again, when they know he's the one responsible for the death of R.J.

The Legion reals from its first Betrayal and the loss of their mentor before But things wouldn't stay quiet for long.

Mysa's visions of Mordru's escape come to pass. but at the end of this battle he escapes to fight another day.

Then id have a few more individual villains come in like Black Mace, Grimbor, and other villains who haven't been seen from other boots and try and give some an over haul while keeping others the same.

There would be a focus on characters.
one example is
Teacher’s Pet: (two parter)
Each member of the Legion takes turns teaching the Academy cadets and because of this all the cadets have gotten the chance to interact and know each of the Legionnaires. But one Legion member has been getting a lot of attention from one specific cadet and everyone is starting to take notice. The relationship seems to go beyond teacher-student and into something else and no one is fond of the idea. This could spell some serious trouble for Karate Kid and Nightwind. What could those repercussions be? Expelled from teaching or from the academy as a cadet? What’s more worth it becoming a Legionnaire or being with the one you love?
The story also takes a look at the abuse of power. First it was innocent flirting, then it developed into a friendship and then into something more… but is it really an abuse of power? They are close to the same age, one just happens to be a teacher to the other. Also Nightwind is top of her class but is it due to her abilities or to her relationship with Karate Kid?
Conclusion: the pair has decided to call it quits. He has also decided to not teach the cadets anymore, so that Nightwind can become a Legionnaire on her own merit and not his recommendations.

next up is Tinya and her Third body/Cub's aging - I like IB think Reboot did a great job resolving that storyline and would like to use that as well.

but I'd have a Jo and Tinya go to marriage counseling and i'd showcase that for a bit.

I'd have Wildfire and Tinya form a friendship from the whole two people becoming one thing and show how Wildfire got to the state of where he is now.

Meanwhile Chameleon and Spark have a long overdue date. But it’s met with nothing but disaster. Cham and Spark seem to have nothing in common besides the Legion and they become the targets of a new villain working to make a name for themselves in the cosmos. They are attacked by Quicksand.

Then i'd have exploration of the Second Galaxy.
The galaxy is ever expanding and now with the existence of the second galaxy there is a lot that needs to be explored. Before Brande’s death, he and several Legionaries went to the second galaxy as United Planets ambassadors but were disrupted and captured by Singularities Credo forces. Now the Legionnaires who went before, have gone back to finish their mission. This time they’ve brought a few extra Legionnaires and Brande’s United Planets ambassador replacement Officer Erin Savuah. Officer Erin was promoted because of her experience with both the Robotica Forces and her work with the Legion as a natural choice to help promote both the science police and the United Planets.
The Legion members who were on this convoy before were Kinetix, Chameleon, M’Onel, and Gates. Along with these members returning to the second galaxy, members Sensor and Ferro have agreed to go with them. Also the legion decided to have some of the cadets go as part of a training course in diplomacy for cadets who were on the verge of graduation. Four cadets were selected to go, Babbage of Robotica, Nightwind of Earth, Infectious Lass of Smoahtur, and Polar Boy of Tharr.

The Kawi provide navigation for not only the threshold navigation system but for the second galaxy at large. The team is using a version of their old outpost to undertake this mission. The outpost is supplied with tec staff and Titan Adept staff for communication. The mission is an indefinite one and the outpost has been fitted with a threshold drive unit… which is experimental and to be used as a last resort to get everyone home at once; if there is any unforeseen trouble. But still requires a Kawi navigator. Staff, Legionaries and Cadets can choose to go home at any time through the threshold gates.

then Graduation for Cadets:Babbage, Nightwind, Infectious lass, ect. whole issue would be their finales to graduate the academy. Some make LEgionnaire, some make reserve, and then an idea I saw ina fan fic By Harbinger in Bits of a Talkron-Glatso team.

After the induction of a couple members there's a giant battle with the forces of Mordru.

I sadly haven't thought beyond this. but i think my main point is i would focus on character moments just as much as big sweeping events. its about a balance between the two.