Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 10 (DAVE EFFING COCKRUM)

Since I don't think anyone else mentioned this, it's worth noting that the name "Molecule Master" is actually a call back to the Adult Legion story, where he is listed as being responsible for the death of Reflecto, another character that Dave was apparently wanting to introduce to the series.

I totally mentioned it!

But it's worth mentioning again!

Credit Where Due Dept.: It was Cramey who said that, not me.

But I agree that it was disappointing. The worst part for me is that the Big Reveal came several years after the original story was published, long enough to fall into the Why Bother? category.

Some mysteries should remain mysteries.

So...putting two and two together, does that mean the reveal takes place during the eventual Reflecto story?!?! I admit that I've never read said story (it hasn't exactly come highly recommended, after all), so this is a total guess based on the above posts!

I also want to welcome back Lardy to the Archive Rereads! Great to have you back. It's almost like sexy Nura was at the Archive as a special thank you for you.

Also, if Fanfie doesn't mind, I'm going to go ahead and post a quick review of the Gim / Vi story now, since I like to read and review these by story, not issue. I'll go the main story in a day or two (probably after a review or two has been posted on it). My posting this week will be very spotty as I'll be traveling.

The Archive has this story before the Wildfire / Devilfish story. Is the actual issue itself also in this order? I suppose I can check myself but that sounds like a lot of work.

Superboy and the LSH #202 Part 1

We get another back up (front up?) by Cockrum and Bates that has familiar positives and negatives. And again for the most part, the positives our weight those negatives.

Thus far in Legion history, both Colossal Boy and Shrinking Violet are two of the most underused Legionnaires and its a treat to see them both utilized. This pairing surely inspires ideas of their bait & switch romance during Levitz's run (in addition to how their powers naturally associate them together).

It's also beautifully rendered by Cockrum. Gim looks incredibly heroic and leading man-ish. Vi looks like a knockout and a capable and equally heroic Legionnaire. The last panel in particular is great with a giant Gim holding a mini Vi.

The plot structure is somewhat familiar with the opening sequence ultimately providing the resolution to the mystery. But it's well plotted and Bates' comfort zone lets him confidently tell a good story. The parasitic rock sequence is particularly well done and a good mid-story problem to keep the Legionnaires on their toes while the mystery lingers.

There are two panels where once more, a female Legionnaire doubts her place on the team because of her powers. This trend has quickly become quite annoying. But it's quick and I can ignore it.

All in all, as the Cockrum / Bates partnership nears its end, it's gotten quite good!

I'm trying to remember, as either you're correct or not far off. I thought this was revealed before that and then followed up in Reflecto but it seems like the kind of dangling plot thread that Roy Thomas fantasized about resolving.

I just want to put in my 2¢ on Dream Girl.

IMHO, if there was a useless power, it is Naltorans.

Example: Dream Girl has a vision that tomorrow, the LSHQ will run out of coffee. What can you do about it? Even if you run to the store that evening, in the morning the Fatal Five will attack, and steal all your supply, or Coffee-Drinker-Lad will show up for tryouts, or something will happen to make you run out of coffee. Dream Girl’s visions are never wrong, only sometimes misinterpreted. There is nothing anyone can do to change the future she predicts.

Now, if she foresaw various possible futures, and how to get there, that might be something. But as it is, it only gives the writer the chance to write the headline (again) A LEGIONNAIRE WILL DIE!

There is a small opportunity to make some money on taking bets about the future. But in most cases, it is the sort of “The-Jack-of-Spades-will-pop-up-out-of-the-deck-and-spit-cider-in-your-ear” variety, which only a sucker would take.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLgXqiaHMM0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSjtN7lFthE

I confess to having been drawn to an issue with that on the cover. But it was all just future fashions. Turns out I'd misread "A Legionnaire Will Dye!"




But what if the Time Trapper appears? Each world in his hourglass represents a world that will be destroyed as it falls from the top to the bottom of the glass.

But then someone remembers Nura's dream about there being no coffee left. A quick Wildfire, Brainy, Element Lad plan replaces the grains of sand with coffee! Ta da! Nura's future comes to pass, but the galaxy is saved. Unfortunately they can't celebrate over coffee, but those Legionnaires are tough. They can have tea instead.



Nura's precognitive combat works in an odd way. She's sees a future where she's punched. But she counters it, avoiding the punch and delivering a thump of her own.

Cobie, you know I'm your friend and I try to be accommodating to you and the other Legion Worlders, but I would appreciate it if next time, you PMed to let me know ahead of time. I've come to believe that without a firm schedule, and without one person clearly leading the discussion, there is a danger that the re-read will become disorganized and random, and possibly stall again as it has in the past.

I will post my reviews of both stories after dinner.

SUPERBOY AND THE LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES #202

This wasn't supposed to be Cockrum's last issue, but the issue of getting back his original artwork, specifically the wedding splash, drove him away from DC and into Marvel exclusively for the rest of the 70s.

Sad to say, it's not his best issue, art-or-story-wise. You know we're in trouble when the shorter story, which would normally be the backup, is the LEAD!

Yet again, a female Legionnaire doubts her worth -- this time it's Shrinking Violet's turn. That said, I do think it's pretty cool that she's the one who figures out the problem and solves it, with Colossal Boy ending up being the one in distress. Vi had several nice moments of asserting herself like this during the 70s, and I'd have liked it if later creators hadn't changed her so drastically and ham-fistedly in the 80s, because I don't think it was necessary. I also like that Gim gives the never-say-die speech; if my Proto-Retroboot fanfics had continued, I had plans for Gim's positive attitude to save the team from disbanding.

Pencils in the Vi/Gim story are by Cockrum, but inks are by his designated successor, Mike Grell, and while I like Grell a lot, their styles definitely clash here -- Grell's finer, more illustrative line fails to blend smoothly with Cockrum's bold stylizations.

The second, longer story introduces the cult character Devil-Fish, who has a typically striking Cockrum design. And the design is about the best thing the story has to offer. The opening scene of Wildfire being sworn in as a member seems tacked on like an afterthought, and the plot comes off to me as muddled -- so humans try to do the right thing by the environment for once, building a station that converts pollutants in the ocean into clean energy, only to find out that there was a weird-looking aquatic creature who depended on the pollution for sustenance? What kind of message is that?? Add to that the surprisingly underwhelming look that Cockrum comes up with for the villainous aliens (so lame they don't even get a name), all blow-dried 'dos and domino-mask eyes and ridiculous facial hair, and I have to wonder why Cockrum considered this to be his finest artistic hour on the Legion.

Still, when all is said and done, Cockrum was indisputably one of the best things that happened to the Legion, and I think we all owe him our gratitude for saving it from oblivion.

Checklist: Tuesday; Fickles has posted; Cobie told off >tee hee<

All checked! Time to paste a review!

Superboy 202

This tele-review of a visi-comic has been cos-motored to your attention. I suppose I’ve read worse. But nothing sounds less futuristic than something that’s trying too hard to be futuristic. I suppose it’s Bates’ way of trying to keep up with Cockrum’s effortlessly sci-fi art.

Another story, another crisis of confidence. This time it’s Violet, who bemoans her supposed lack of powers when the controls of the spacecraft she’s in with Gim die.

Another hallmark of Bates appears in the over-elaborate scheme. The Legionnaires are fighting some raiders. Instead of trying to kill the Legionnaires, one of them just happens to have a power draining bullet that he hopes will stop the Legion at some distant point in the future, rather than help his own side in the present.

Gim is “exiled” on a space rock. He tries to pretend it took a lot of convincing for Vi to abandon him, but it was three panels Gim. Sorry man. The rock just happens to be alive for no other plot purpose than to give Gim something to do. Still, there are a couple of nice panels where he realises he can’t use his powers in space, and when he uses them to burst out of his transit back on board.

Violet finds the reason behind the ship’s power loss and the pair return to Earth. There are a couple of classic panels for Vi as she stands in Gim’s hand.

At half a dozen pages, it does its job. We get to focus on a couple of the cast, without learning a great deal about them.
The main feature opens with some of the team swearing in Wildfire. It seems an odd grouping now. Bikini-Imra and Timberwolf capturing that ‘70s feel along with Tenzil, Shady and Brainy. Wildfire writing his name in energy is a quick signal to the readers on his personality. The scene is there just to conclude the Erg-1 story and to provide an intro for the main mission. With the varying pages lengths, there’s certainly a number of ways in which Bates is able to fit in a story.

Outside of Aquaman, there aren’t too many aquatic DC comics. So it’s an interesting environment and our introduction to it is a great panel of 4 seemingly drowned Legionnaires. Seeing the breathing masks on those that need them is a relief and doesn’t lessen the impact too much.

The plot reminds me of a couple of old Doctor Who stories from around the same time. They also involved foam and offshore platforms. Element Lad gets a chance to shine only to find out that the foam contains “unknown elements.” He gets to make up for it later. Light Lass is making up the numbers really, and doesn’t get to add anything to the plot.

Despite the lovely future, it would seem that the oceans have lots of pollution. So not everything worked out well. It’s the lightest of “relevant” touches from the Legion.

A third party appearing at the rig handily draws the Legion and the Devil Fish together as allies.

It’s interesting to see how the two invulnerable Legionnaires deal with the threat to the rig. Superboy looks to question the Devil Fish, while Mon-El takes a more direct, militaristic approach. Mon is still thinking though, and uses the telepathic plugs to find a solution. One that doesn’t trample over the Devil Fish’s life.

I had often thought that the Devil Fish was a fairly hokey character. But the combination of Cockrum’s great art and the teasers to possible future appearances make me wonder if the Devil Fish wasn’t supposed to have a longer future in the book. I’m certainly seeing a link between him and Tellus. I imagine that this story added to the call for less human looking Legionnaires.

The rest of the art is also impressive, with the rig and the ocean scenes providing a nice contrast. From the wet look Legionnaires to Superboy’s use of infrared, it’s very good visually. The story is a step up from the 6 pager, reminding us that not everything is as it first seems and that different ways of living can be accommodated through communication (although telepathic earplugs help)

I'd never thought of that before, but I think you make a valid point. I do wish the story had been better-written, though. And like I said in my review, I personally don't think this was one of Cockrum's better artistic showings.

That rule is totally news to me! But I'm happy to play along as I think that makes a lot of sense.



Feh!

(I was gonna say "piss off" but can't remember if that's a loving, playful jab or a serious "now we must become enemies" one. )

Superboy & the LSH #202

Dave Cockrum's last issue leaves me with mixed emotions as on the one hand it's stunning beyond belief and on the other I'm just plain sad that he moves on from here. I can take comfort in the fact that Grell is coming and I just recently reread his amazing All-New, All-Different X-Men with Fanfie and Lardy. Still, it's hard not to just reflect on what he did for the Legion. We've basically spent the whole thread talking about it, so there's no need to go on and on, but to sum it up: he saved the franchise we all know and love.

This issue is no exception to his greatness. The splash page with the 4 Legionnaires knocked out in the water is especially breathtaking and one of his best.

The story is fairly standard but that doesn't stop it from being good. Bates has really stepped up towards the end of Dave's run and he continues to showcase his good plotting skills here.

I like Devilfish a lot, as Dave's design is terrific, and the concept of his food supply is interesting. His bubble powers are too for that matter. I know in the Legion Companion there was a ton of speculation as to whether Devilfish would have returned sooner rather than later had Dave stayed, and perhaps even joined the LSH. I know I wouldn't have minded at all and wish we'd seen him again. But alas, we'll never know!

One complaint is I wish we had more Wildfire. He gets one of the best codename in comics up to that point and then poof, he's not seen again. Such was the Legion of this era I suppose.

And so the 10th Archive comes to an end! And what a damn good one it was.

Many thanks for respecting the unwritten rule, Cobie.

You and Thoth both seem to like the Devil-Fish story a lot more than I did, but that's what makes the world go 'round.

And I do agree 100% that this was a damn good Archive.

Finally, to others who may still want to chime in on the stories in this volume even after we regulars have moved on to later volumes, remember that it's never too late.

One thing that struck me with the Gim-Violet story was not so much her self-doubt (an over-used story, as others have said), but her unwillingness to abandon Gim despite him urging her to leave. After recently finishing a series of time-travel books called The Chronicles of St. Mary's, one of the oft-repeated lines was "We're St. Mary's, we don't leave our people behind". It was the concept of a solid team, that someone always has your back, that was so appealing - and I got that sense from this story, the "We're the Legion" feeling.

I had the same feeling, I just couldn't quite find the words to express it. Thanks, FC, for doing just that.

"What kind of message is that?" It's a Darwinian message. If only they'd left Love Canal alone, who knows we'd have gotten a real Devil Fish.

LOVE this story. Writing? Eh I suppose. I fell for it so I'm going to say "good." But the story clearly, one of my faves.

Hey wait, when was this story written? Was it inspired by the Love Canal?

202/Devil Fish:

I can't help thinking that much of the Devil Fish story was inspired by "The Devil in the Dark" episode of the original Star Trek. In that story, too, we've got a monster causing havoc. Kirk wants to kill it (as Mon wanted to attack the Devil Fish) while Spock advocates a more rational approach (as Superboy does). Ultimately, Spock and Kirk's positions coalesce into Mon-El, who at last does communicate with the aquatic creature after rendering him harmless, so Mon risks nothing.

I do appreciate the attempt to include science fiction concepts, even though they seem rather shaky at this remove: A sea station that purifies the ocean by feeding off toxic pollutants . . . not a bad idea. I find it harder to accept that Devil Fish purifies the ocean all by his lonesome.

Others have commented on the pluses and strengths of this story. I agree with most of those comments. However, as a kid reading this for the first time, I was drawn into a number of images, such as the Legionnaires encased in the bubble prison and Superboy's use of infrared vision. Those images alone helped stir my imagination, as did the mystery over the saboteur.

A couple of things did annoy me, however:

When Brainy says it would require an "addendum" to the Legion's charter for Wildfire to change his name, I wondered why. Frankly, it just sounds like an "intellectual" thing for him to say that has no bearing on the story whatsoever.

Also, by the time the Wildfire scene is over, everyone seems to have drifted away but Brainy and Imra. Welcome to the team, Drake; now we can ignore you (as the writers certainly would from this point forward).

202/Lost

By no means an exceptional story, though it does have several pluses, such as the rare focus on Gim and Vi, and Vi getting to save the day.

Ultimately, the ending leaves me flat: Not a word of thanks from Gim to Vi for saving his life, just "Earth, here we come!" The characters learn nothing and do not grow, and we learn nothing about them.

"Lost: A Million Miles from Home!"

Not a bad little story, though the raiders' plot to get back at the Legionnaires is very complex and a little too specific. But it's nice to see Vi and Gim together and see some slight shades of what later appeared to be their romantic pairing in the Levitz/Giffen era.

But what I really liked was how Dave drew Salu's hair and how both it and the costume seemed to put her past timidity to bed. The longer hair was quite a change from how she'd always in the past and later after her sens-tank captivity had a consistently shorter haircut from most of the females. Particularly after her Silver Age depiction, the longer hair makes her look sexy, confident and more grown-up. Other than her quick outburst about her and Gim's powers being useless in this particular crisis, Dave just illustrates a new Vi who's ready for the Bronze Age.

It's not just the length of her hair. Dave draws it fairly big as well. I don't know what the terminology is, but it's almost a bouffant and is very well crafted than just a big blob covering her head. Clearly, dave has some talent depicting different hairstyles, and this one is a great choice for a more mature Vi. (When she eventually goes to the shortest cut yet, I think that change also works well to show how she's even tougher moving forward.)



"The Wrath of the Devil-Fish"

I'm in the camp that feels that this was a pretty good story. It has its faults, that have already been mentioned, but I think the vintage-Cockrum design of Devil-Fish and how the story reverses our expectations with him not turning out to be bad. I particularly love the two silent panels of Mon-El sharing the telepathic plug. That serious "let's hear your side" look from Mon really sells the moment. Bravo to Cockrum for that!

It is a little disappointing that Devil-Fish didn't join the Legion or at least have the possibility mentioned. The Legion was blessed to have Cockrum at all, but you can't help but think that he would have enriched the lore and look of the book even greater if he'd stayed even a little bit longer. I guess we'll have to just take what he did with the X-Men as a consolation prize instead and imagine what Nightcrawler and Storm might have been like as Legionnaires!


BONUS: Though there wasn't a lot of insightful info in the "Lore of the Legion" for us Legion lifers, it's interesting to me that a regular part of the entries was the status of the Legionnaires' parents (even though this was neglected in some). I suppose that was inserted for the benefit of the younger readers the editors expected to be picking up this incarnation, but it was otherwise fairly useless as Legionnaire parents are rarely mentioned or featured.

Oddly, enough Colossal Boy's entry is one of the ones with that info left out. His folks had already played a role in the LSV School story--and of course his mom Marte would later be the most prominent Legion parent as a future Earth President.

The power of Cockrum's art right there. I've read the Legion Companion. So, I must have read any speculation on Devil Fish. But I would have rolled my eyes based on a hokey picture taken out of context somewhere. Seeing the effort Cockrum put into the character has changed my view of it. I'm not saying he should join the Legion or anything, but the art makes it a more entertaining comic than I thought it was going to be.




I thought they must have been really stuck for a line to give Brainy. Someone should reply "Oh, is there a rule that says we can't change the name?" To which Brainy replies ">choke< No! I just can't express myself!" leading to lots of hugs and him not going nuts later in the run.

Just gave this to my daughter for her birthday. We'll see how she likes it.

Woo-hoo! What a dad!

^ seconded!