Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Vol. 10 (DAVE EFFING COCKRUM)

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The sequel to the Tyr story is indeed a letdown, but only slightly. I feel there is much to laud in the story, including the fact that the gun-hand is so incredibly dangerous that it's easy to underestimate, as Kal certainly did.

The first page establishes it as a credible threat--something that is out there, somewhere, waiting to act. It traps the Legionnaires in their headquarters with a single beam from orbit. Later, when Superboy shows up bearing the gun-hand on his own wrist, it's a terrifying moment, one in which all of the Legionnaires' hopes have been dashed.

The letdowns involve the plot being too easily resolved, and the rather pat lesson that even the "weakest" Legionnaires have something to contribute. It's nice that Jeckie learns this lesson (meaning someone has changed as a result of the story), but it comes across as heavy-handed, much more so than in the second story which builds on the same theme.

The art is good but awkward in places. Brainy's expression on Page 5 made me wonder if he'd just eaten a piece of sour candy. Dream Girl's hourglass figure two pages later is a bit too much like an hourglass, with a super-thin waist. One wonders how she stays upright.

For that matter, Nura and Thom contribute little to the story. Nura does pick up (inadvertently) on Tyr's escape attempt, and Thom appears to fly up to catch the villain--though whether he succeeds is not shown. (Perhaps Thom missed.) Both could be dropped from the story without affecting it much; their new costumes, however, are sure nice to look at.

I've written before of my admiration for "The Impossible Target." I think it's a wonderful story and probably one of the best Legion backups ever. Chuck's situation is truly dire: He is on his own, hunted by a deranged killer, and his only defense is his somewhat silly power (the reason Orion Jr. targeted him in the first place). But Chuck has one other weapon: his wits.

He dives into that icy pond on purpose because he hopes it will give him a cold. He is counting on this extreme long shot to give him an advantage in the anti-gravity chamber--and it works! The single panel of him ricocheting off the cavern walls and landing on top of Orion is brilliantly executed. And Orion's reaction --"I-I can't believe it!"-- says it all!

"The Impossible Target," more than any other single story, demonstrates the value of believing in oneself, no matter what one's gifts or talents may be. The fact that Chuck maintains a sense of humor throughout adds another dimension by showing he doesn't have to take himself or his situation too seriously.

Julie Schwarz (I think) said something about sales rising every time there was a gorilla on the cover. It was a popular trope and maybe Lana was intended to be a new Fay Wray. (I wonder if there was ever a case of a carnival/zoo gorilla escaping and chasing a pretty young woman which inspired that.) Of course, it could have been Chameleon Boy arriving early and just having some fun.

Jimmy marrying a gorilla might cause an outcry in certain circles today, i.e. the people who say that gay marriage will lead to people marrying their dogs. Maybe people could enjoy silliness more back then.

Bouncing Boy does come off admirably in this story - as well in many others. His power is silly (I agree with FFL that the sneeze is pretty foolish) but he's seldom (if ever?) treated like a joke as Tenzil Kem is.

I wrote a short essay for the Klordny APA on Chuck titled "Citizen Taine" which addressed how he's the everyman hero. He does succeed on his wits rather than brute strength, he's ever optimistic and he gets the girl through true love and devotion - a quiet character worthy of our respect.

Sounds like an interesting essay, FC. Care to reprint it on LW?

As we've been doing these re-reads of the Superboy run, it strikes me that Chuck is the only Legionnaire who comes across as a distinct personality so far--and in a single story, at that. (Well, Drake does, too, but he's not a Legionnaire yet.) It could be because Bates was more comfortable writing solo heroes than teams--hence his decade-plus run on The Flash. Or it could be because of Chuck's everyman quality, which makes him easier to develop in a story such as this.

FC, I second He Who's suggestion of reprinting your essay on LW.

And I think He Who raises an interesting point -- at some point (in my opinion it was in the later issues of the Adventure Era) the Legionnaires became blank slates at the mercy of the writers' whims. Take my favorite member, Shadow Lass -- in her first appearance in the second Fatal Five story, she's strong and capable, while in the first Mordru story she's a bubblehead who accidentally releases the most dangerous sentient in the universe. I'm still convinced that this had a negative effect on fans' perceptions of her, which resulted in her becoming one of the most unfairly neglected Legionnaires. Chuck and Drake were arguably the only ones whose personality arrived fully formed, and even then Drake would occassionally be mis-characterized by Jim Shooter (who is on record as disliking Drake) and Gerry Conway. It wasn't until Levitz's second run that the Legionnaires personalities were set in stone -- for better and for worse.

Here's what I wrote back in 2010, when Levitz had started writing the Legion again. I'm posting it as I wrote it, but see I erroneously thought a powerless Chuck met Adam Orion - must have been thinking of some other story.

Citizen Taine


Bouncing Boy/Chuck Taine has been on my mind lately. We only saw him, with Lu, briefly, but we know he's alive, well and working with the Academy. No doubt a lot of Legion fans were pleased with that, since he seems to have a particular fan base, without him necessarily being anyone's favourite character.


His name crops up in the oddest places when people write or podcast about the future, or superheroes; they may have only a vague knowledge of The Legion, but they remember Bouncing Boy. It was just such a number of mentions in the past few weeks that got me thinking about Bouncing Boy.


As a youngster, I was never that concerned with Bouncing Boy and did think his power was pretty lame. It was in revisiting the original stories as an adult that I came to appreciate him. Also, the character had a definite appeal as the guy who kept Legion World running in the DnA era.


I've read a number of comments, by guys, that Chuck got the fantasy bride - two girls in his bed. I've never discussed this with other women, but from my own female perspective, Lu got the fantasy husband: not to do with the sex, but with his great devotion to her. He thinks he's the luckiest guy in the galaxy to have a wife like her, and what woman wouldn't want to be thought of in that way?


Chuck is more than Everyman, he's the best in Everyman. What's not to like about Chuck Taine? He's friendly, adaptable, loyal, courageous; he's got a good marriage and a good, challenging job. He's never had a nervous breakdown or a temper tantrum, never betrayed the Legion, never grandstanded. He's a normal guy who holds his own with the superheroes. He's practical, resourceful, positive; lacking self-pity and always concerned for others. He was ready to die to save Saturn Girl from Computo. He was able to stop in the midst of a Khund attack to calm Mysa down and get her to work her magic.


In the reboot, Chuck was a young architect and eventually became the "building manager" for Legion World. One indication of readers' appreciation of Chuck Taine was the bad reaction to Keith Giffen's issue in which Chuck and Gear bumble around Legion World as futuristic Laurel and Hardy, avoiding work and messing things up. People didn't like a slacker Chuck Taine; they wanted him to be the hero who beat the odds using his common sense.


Bouncing Boy wasn't relegated to the Substitute Heroes, or outright rejected, because he proved himself. He mastered the power he had and showed how it could be used. Even when he lost his power, he could hold his own against Adam (son of Orion) the Hunter.


It was only in reading the online Hero History for Bouncing Boy that I learned that his full name in the reboot was Charles Foster Taine, a take on Orson Welles' Citizen Charles Foster Kane. An interesting touch, but the similarity began and ended with the name, as far as I'm concerned.


Some people have questioned whether the concept of Bouncing Boy was to make fat kids feel good about themselves. Perhaps that was the original intention, but I think the end result was to make all of us, with no superpowers, think about how we could stand with the Legion, if the opportunity arose.


It's been said that Paul Levitz enjoys writing about the Legion Academy. It will be interesting to see if he gives Chuck Taine a prominent role.

Do you think this abuse (for lack of a better word) of characterization was targeted or mismanagement? Unique to Legion or an industry generalization at that time?


I don't recall any of the ADV Legionnaires with strongly and consistently written personalities. They seemed mostly defined by skill set and costume. That is what gave them some consistency.

So thinking on this and trying to recall my observations reading as a kid and rereading as an adult and I'd say as far as Legion, these personalities in my head were based upon an impressions made either by reading message boards or an issue or two that stood out somewhen over the five decades but rarely from ADV.

For the most part, I don't recall the Legionnaires as a whole as having consistently written personalities. Most of it I just made up in my head. Maybe the same for most comics.

The exceptions I recall, Archie and Fantastic Four.


Archie. I could always expect Archie to act and react one way and Jughead and Betty and so on to be consistently written. If someone asked me to describe how Archie behaved, I could give them an answer. Same for the Fantastic Four. Lightning Lad? Not a chance. I might say he's "heroic" because he died and had a fake arm and he shoots lightning. That's not really personality characterization. I wouldn't have any opinion on how he would react if for example, he saw a baby or a kid or whether he was conservative or liberal minded, a happy person or a sad...

Superboy 199

On the cover, Superboy looks suitably terrified at being forced to kill his comrades. Cockrum certainly manages to capture Superboy’s expressions well when he’s faced with cover calamity.
It’s Cockrum’s art that carries this issue.

The opening page deserves special mention again. There’s a lot to capture the readers’ attention. The panels explaining the weapons the Legion have faced, ominously giving the reader an idea of what they are about to encounter; The lovely Earth backdrop, complete with orbiting gun; various captions and sweeping titles to get the reader to spend time taking it all in.

(On the weapons, the Solar Stunner brings up thoughts of assassinations in the training camps of Titan’s telepaths, while the Retro rifle doesn’t vaporise a square mile. It sends it into another Legion ‘Bootverse. At the time Brainy is showing it here, it would transport victims to the Universe where the Legion’s parents were the group’s founders, as per an early issue.)

Cockrum’s shattered panel showing Superboy encountering the hand really stands out.

As is the one showing Tyr creeping along the air duct. I’m reminded of Byrne’s Wolverine in the Hellfire Club sewer that is considered a classic. The technology, the physicality of Tyr (although not utilised much) and the always well rendered, gun hand are also excellent. Another nice panel shows Tyr’s delight at recapturing the gun, only for that expression to carry forward to being on Cham’s face.

Jeckie is possibly at her best drawn in this issue, particularly her hair.

The story itself has an intriguing premise, but has some standard early throw backs to help it along.

We get a traditional excuse for there being 5 Legionnaires in the HQ, although it’s a nice touch that the gun hand waits for Superboy’s departure. It’s not stupid. Today, those Legionnaires with weapons would be released as toy variants.

Did the Legion need Superboy to imprison Tyr? Superboy still hasn’t got the hang of Time Travel, as he feels he’s overdue again, despite being able to pop back to whenever he likes.
Dreamy’s powers are used in a very practical way, pretty much alerting the Legion to Tyr’s escape. This is a link from the days when using her powers caused her to faint to the combat precognition she would later show.

While Dreamy becomes more useful, Jeckie uncharacteristically falls apart. She’s been randomly selected to be this issue’s “character who cracks under pressure.” It’s another throwback that teaches the reader about the power of teamwork to overcome odds.

The dialogue isn’t the best this issue, with it becoming as stock as parts of the plot. Some of this is due to some exposition, but explaining the art seems pointless when Cockrum is involved.

While it’s a far cry from her later Sensor Girl days, I’m reminded of her defeated by the Red Mists in the TMK run, her fears having overwhelmed her. Jeckie does get to play a key part on the gun’s defeat though, to redeem herself. The image of Superboy exceeding the deadly actions of the cover worked even more with pages of ads following it. I fairly raced on to find out what happened. Sorry ads, I shall never know what you offered.

The idea of the gun hand attaining independent sentience is interesting, particularly its determination to upgrade its host. But by the time I first read a Tyr issue, the gun hand was back being his silent partner again. An ongoing struggle between Tyr and his technology would have been interesting.

As with the first appearance of Tyr, there’s a dangling plot point left at the end of this issue Then, it centred on when the gun hand would strike. Now, it’s when will the full Krypoinite laced wardrobe and sewing machine appear. That glove can’t be the only item can it?

On the back up, the resources required to control a group of asteroids to trap Chuck strains credibility. Much like Dr Regulus overly elaborate plot a few issues back.

Likewise, the ability to shrink spacecraft (Imskian tech, perhaps) to gravity nullifying chambers. The chamber is needed because Bates has to have it for the payoff to work. The only kill an Orion ever gets to make is over kill on his set up.

On seeing an icy pool, Chuck deliberately jumps in. He hopes that he will catch a cold. Sniffles that will infect him at just the right rate, to allow him to sneeze at just the right moment to allow an escape. You know, rather than just fake a sneeze, or blow out. Also, don’t we have flight rings by now? Did they hand them in? Is Chuck on leave/reserve status?

Everything is well drawn, from the telepathically controlled shuttle, through the castle to the stoic Chuck as he faces down Orion. But not even an anti-gravity chamber to suspend my disbelief at the plot.

The repetitive belittling of Chuck's apparent ability is generally offset by his bravery in previous appearances.

As opposed to Jeckie earlier this issue, Chuck doesn't have self doubt. That's all from Orion. Chuck is comfortable being a Legionnaire. He knows his own capabilities, has a healthy perspective on things, and is confident of his skill in facing Orion. As the Legionnaire who is physically distinct form many of the others, I wonder how much of a confidence boost this one was for the readers.

Well said, FC. I think you nailed Chuck's personality and his invaluable contribution to the Legion.

Even though the next issue we will review is in effect his swan song as a Legionnaire, he keeps bouncing back (heh), showing the qualities which made him so appealing in the first place.

I think wherever I read that, also went on to make the point that they really had no clue as to what sold and what didn't.




Baffling on so many levels. Best not show them the Olsen/ Krypto "I was a Teenage Super Pet" affair issue then

According to the Legion Wiki, it's Nick Cardy who draws Superboy's face on cover.

Cardy was good at drawing super-heroes flipping out in uncontrollable situations, re: Mon-El on LSH v.1 # 1.



The Solar Stunner is very obviously a Klingon disrupter--one of numerous Star Trek Easter eggs during Cockrum's tenure. I groaned when I saw this panel again.



Both stand-out panels for me, as well.



Not only hasn't he gotten the hang of time travel, but both he and the Legionnaires have forgotten that he wasn't involved in Tyr's capture in the first place.

Bates didn't even like to keep track of his own continuity, it seems.




Good point about faking a sneeze. However, when I fake a sneeze (not that I do so very often), it doesn't have the force of a real one.

I also wondered why he didn't use his flight ring during the jungle scenes.

Thanks for that HWW. I had forgotten about DC getting others to tweak covers. I'm not familiar enough with Trek to groan at the references. I did however research & experiment with a fake sneeze before I posted.

I picked up on Superboy not being there last time, but typed it the wrong way on my review. It's odd when there was clearly going to be a follow up in the not so distant future. It's hard to imagine the editor telling Bates to put more Superboy into the sequel, as he's so central to it.

Maybe your fake sneezes are more powerful than mine.

Great to see so many posts. I'll read and comment on them tomorrow.

I don't know that I've ever read anything other than Legion by Cary Bates? Has anyone? How does the writing compare? In his bio, he describes himself as an "Adventure writer."

I can see that. Bates introduced a lot of new places and characters to Legion that stuck, became canon and used by future writers. For the story pacing and plot devices that sometimes clunk, Bates introduced a lot to be proud of. In some ways, I think he was more imaginative that Levitz, even if not demonstrating Levitz' ability to build a bigger picture and add a sense of legitimate mystery.

A Levitz, Bates, Cockrum (for the sci-fi) team might have been interesting. Interesting mix of ages and personalities for sure.

Bates wrote The Flash for well over a decade up to and including its cancellation in 1985. He also wrote several JLA stories.

I would have to re-read those issues in order to compare them to his Legion writing, but I have fond memories of his Flash run. I think he truly connected with the character and was able to use his knack for plotting and gimmicks to good effect with the Rogues Gallery.

I agree that Bates contributed much of lasting impact to the Legion and should not be overlooked. Each time I read these stories I'm impressed with how tight and economical his plots are, and how he was able to develop a complete story in just a few pages. It must be said that Bates' conception (of perhaps Boltinoff's) of his audience was that they were very young; hence, Chuck's sneeze and other ideas that might seem silly to us today.

Amen to that, sister.




Having been out of the comics loop until a several months after that issue was published, I was not aware of the negative response to it. Since it was a Giffen story, it inevitably gladdens my heart that it was badly received.

And yet Sun Boy said that as Sneeze Lad, I couldn't get in. Worse, I thought I was in with another chance. As Mucus Miss (long story/Olsen crossover) I tried again. But it was all just a ruse to expose the Murrans. Bah!

Perhaps they confused you with Infectious Lass.

But...but...Infectious Lass causes diseases in others while my ecto-mucus has made me a hero (and occasional heroine thanks to Olsen) in dozens of ... well small skirmishes... across, if not worlds, then reasonably populated villages! I can't believe their research is so poor.

It makes me so... >achoo!< Ah, control is a bit of an issue. Here, let me get some industrial strength hankies to wipe the worst of that off of you.

Oh, no! I-I'm turning ... green!

Well, get yourself right. We've a wedding to go to.

Hm. Maybe that explains why people keep addressing me as J'Onn.

Mainly that Flash run before Crisis. It had its daft moments, but stands out for the plot developing from previous actions, rather than having random villains show up each month. It went on too long, but that was in part due to Bates being told that the end was nigh.

I also read the relaunch of Captain Atom. It faded after a year or so, but it's miles better than the DCNu version.

New Guardians never really got off the starting blocks. Millennium generally was poor compared to Crisis & Legends.



Bit of a digression ...Lightning Lad had pretty much gone by the time I was reading the Legion. The founders leaving were more a passing of the torch at the time, more than there being an obvious gap created by their absence. So, not much personality there outside him being a family man.

The first issues I read when he was involved outside of battle, had him having a breakdown and declaring himself unfit for leadership to anyone who would listen.

I had read a number of Adventure stories by the time TMK started. There, they tried to tie his calm, family man outlook with his breakdowns (Proty/ Garth internal conflicts) and a more adventurous past appropriately in Adventure. Except, Garth didn't really stand out that way in Adventure. They were all like that. Super earnest. Super serious. Super rushing into space peril.

Yet, that's the personality that's been tweaked further with various incarnations of Livewire.

That's a really good look at Chuck, Cramer. I'm not sure I've read the Giffen issue, but I can see why people weren't keen on it. Although, and I'm playing devil's advocate, it does have a certain echo to his origin, it completely misses the other side.

Chuck was goofing off his work, when he went into watch the Robot Gladiators. But even there, you could tell that it was just too big a temptation, rather than it being something he did all the time. He was trusted with the task after all.

The others did treat him as a bit of a joke in his origin. But the other side was that Chuck proved them wrong, with all those traits that he would come to be recognised for. Determination, perseverance, resourcefulness and that ability to bring out the best in others. I'd also argue he picked up more in his time in the lab than Sun Boy did at his dad's firm. Conductivity (301), trajectory (often) & force (199). His practical applications of all this make him a pretty clever chap.



No, no. You'll be your normal colour underneath all this...oh, you are turning green now that I mentioned what you were underneath...

Well I'm back again after a hectic few weeks of work craziness. I'll try to catch up on both my reading & reviews and also this thread over the next few days.

Superboy #193

This story was definitely the best story so far in this volume IMO, as Bates writing steps up a level to try to meet Dave's glorious artwork. And it is glorious from start to finish, with very dynamic action and equally dynamic intrigue. The new costumes on Val, Cham, Vi, and Luornu are fantastic, of course. All of them being, IMO, much better than the originals and in my mind the classic looks for these characters (with perhaps Cham's purple and yellow version being better).

More than anything this story is great because I love the focus on Luornu, who truly gets to shine here. I can't help but think though that the story would be better served if it was a metaphor for the two parts of Luornu having to make peace with each other. In hindsight this is a lost opportunity to provide the personal element to a potentially great allegory.

The ending is surely not as tidy as it seems but the LSH can only do so much in these scenarios of galactic politics and war. What really sticks out to me is that King John was used a lot by TMK, which is how I usually think of him. There, he comes off pretty well as a decent character but here, kind of a real prick.

The cast of 2 Legionnaires was well utilized here and a story this small benefits from it.