Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Legion of Super-Heroes Sales Figures

Good point EDE.

Though one can make the point that perhaps for a fair percentage of those who are so affected by this economy that it is impacting their comics buying, even 2.99 is way below the acceptable entertainment value per dollar.

So how much below, compared to the other company, may be irrelevant, leading to roughly equal losses for both companies.

CK, I also do not think digital distribution will have enough to the factors that long-ago newsstand distribution had to replicate its success. Though I hope it does.

They might be able to duplicate the same amount of walk-by access, only it will be surf-by. But unless digital takes off so well that they can start dropping the price WAY below print, they won't meet the value ratio they need to compete with other entertainment these days, as comics did so successfully long ago.

If I understand it correctly, creator fees will be perhaps the biggest cost once you eliminate physical materials, printing and shipping. Creators also may have the similar economic choice: working in comics vs other entertainment that pays better.

I think my reading enjoyment sure plummeted when DC dropped the back-ups that it experimented with... and I think Levitz's books still haven't recovered from the pacing shot to hell by the drop in page count.

I always hated the 'hold the line' campaign and found it a sneaky way to charge relatively more for less.

I think digital will eventually be a terrific addition to comic companies revenue streams. It'll take a while, though- and the way they'll be delivered will go through some permutations. DC and Marvel need to find a way to deliver to Kindle and Nook- which they currently can't. I don't think digital will replace physical comic books-- they'll exist side by side.

I imagine the physical books will eventually experice rising prices, though- so get ready.

Oh, yeah- and comic books are *in* newsstands. Barnes and Noble and Hastings each have large comic book sections, now. I don't know what other newsstands you'd mean... the sidewalk kind with a tarp over them like you see in the movies? Do they exist outside of the handful of very largest cities? Airports? Wal-mart?

The term "newstand" was always a bit of a misnomer, as it was used to refer to all non-CBS retail outlets such as drug stores, grocery stores, convenience stores, etc. back when comic racks could be found in such places. I bought my first comics at a "five and dime" store (Woolworths). One of our local supermarkets has a comic rack even now.

The thing is, when I bought my first comics they were comparable in price to a candy bar or a soda, and were pretty densely packed with extras like one-page humor strips, text pages and public service strips between chapters of the main story. Even now, going back and reading one of those books takes 15-20 minutes.

Now, a single comic costs as much as three or four candy bars and/or sodas and only takes five minutes to read. Which do you think the average kid is going to spend his money on?

Yeah, that's going to remain a major obstacle to drawing kids or just about anyone new into the medium.

But comics are stuck between that and all the costs that have disproportionately risen over the decades. Creators get paid much better now, paper, printing and shipping have gone way up. Unfortunately paying all those people what they're worth nowadays creates a price point that does not compare favorably with the alternative entertainments out there or other items kids would like.

So, Rich J\'s asked a few comic shops w...oll, and ranked the orders that came out (he assumed JL #1, the top-seller, did 200k, but I've cropped those numbers out so people don't actually believe them).

Here's the bottom ten (actually a bottom eleven, given ties):
42= LEGION LOST - 24% of JL #1 (range: 5-44%)
42= RESURRECTION MAN - 24% (range: 17-44%)
44= DC UNIVERSE PRESENTS - 23% (range: 11-35%)
44= FURY OF FIRESTORM: THE NUCLEAR MEN - 23% (range: 5-50%)
44= MEN OF WAR - 23% (range: 5-40%)
44= SAVAGE HAWKMAN - 23% (range: 11-50%)
48= MISTER TERRIFIC - 22% (range: 5-40%)
48= OMAC - 22% (range: 5-40%)
48= VOODOO - 22% (range: 5-44%)
51= BLACKHAWKS - 21% (range: 10-40%)
51= LEGION OF SUPER HEROES - 21% (range: 5-44%)

I'll eat EDE's hat if VOODOO, BLACKHAWKS or MEN OF WAR outsold LSH when the actual numbers come out.

Well, if national trends reflect local trends we won't really know anything until issue(s) #2, since my local shop is offering a 30% discount to anyone who orders all 52 #1s. Even if only a percentage of regulars take them up on it, it's bound to skew the numbers a bit.

It is my impression that, after visiting the Baltimore Comic Con and talking with many different people on the subject (artists, writers, comic book store owners, and fans/readers) that the industry as whole (generally) must go digital in order to survive beyond the near future. The current template for producing comics will eventually mirror the iTunes established setup, where comic consumers would go on line and purchase a given comic issue (about 20 odd pages) for around $1, which is the current going rate for many independents on-line. Free samplings of 3-5 pages of a given issue would be available for free previewing, as occurs for DC and Marvel now. Graphic novels for the most successful only would be later printed containing a group of these issues. The graphic novels are more palatable to bookstores and libraries, and would be (hopefully) a better way to introduce new readers. Artists and writers would be heavily dependent upon sales royalties for their income, and this structure would most definitely weed out all but the popular titles. Needless to say, the printing houses and comic book store owners are deeply concerned about this direction.

The comic book industry has been competing with, and losing to, various products such as songs, movie rentals, game rentals, internet video and chat sites, all of which are cheaper and sometimes easier to access. There seems to be a firm commitment (with DC testing the waters first with their company-wide reboot before Marvel) to position towards this switchover.

Wow. I predicted almost the exactly the same thing on another thread (I'm Not Giving Up) just a few days ago. Scary how what was purely conjecture on my part is already starting to be verified by people who are in a much better position than I am to know about these sort of things.

It's exciting to know we have a Naltorian in our midst!

And so ends another version.

August Sales are in and the books limp to their conclusion. Adventure gets the dubious distinction of being the lowest selling LSH book since just before Legion Lost. Yikes.

Next month, expect some crazy numbers.


LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES:

05/2010: Legion of Super-Heroes #1 -- 44,415, #39 out of 300 [50,106]
06/2010: Legion of Super-Heroes #2 -- 39,102, #43 out of 300
07/2010: Legion of Super-Heroes #3 -- 36,360, #45 out of 300
08/2010: Legion of Super-Heroes #4 -- 34,239 #51 out of 300
09/2010: Legion of Super-Heroes #5 -- 32,417 #55 out of 300
10/2010: Legion of Super-Heroes #6 -- 30,246 #66 out of 300
11/2010: Legion of Super-Heroes #7 -- 26,439 #65 out of 300
12/2010: Legion of Super-Heroes #8 -- 25,063 #72 out of 300
01/2011: Legion of Super-Heroes #9 -- 24,230 #60 out of 300
02/2011: Legion of Super-Heroes #10 -- 23,738 #75 out of 300
03/2011: Legion of Super-Heroes #11 -- 23,667 #85 out of 100
04/2011: Legion of Super-Heroes #12 -- 23,419 #75 out of 300
05/2011: Legion of Super-Heroes #13 -- 23,105 #76 out of 300
06/2011: Legion of Super-Heroes #14 -- 22,600 #106 out of 300
07/2011: Legion of Super-Heroes #15 -- 21,788 #100 out of 300
08/2011: Legion of Super-Heroes #16 -- 21,373 #111 out of 300

ADVENTURE:

08/2009: Adventure Comics #1 -- 56,706, #30 out of 300
09/2009: Adventure Comics #2 -- 47,296, #44 out of 300
10/2009: Adventure Comics #3 -- 44,431 #40 out of 300
11/2009: Adventure Comics #4 -- 85,145 #6 out of 300
12/2009: Adventure Comics #5 -- 59,876 #21 out of 300 *
01/2010: Adventure Comics #6 -- 42,514 #33 out of 300 *
02/2010: Adventure Comics #7 -- 53,721 #23 out of 300 *
03/2101: Adventure Comics #8 -- 39,351 #39 out of 300
03/2010: Adventure Comics #9 -- 37,515 #44 out of 300
04/2010: Adventure Comics #10 -- 37,573 #41 out of 300
05/2010: Adventure Comics #11 -- 34,794 #54 out of 300
06/2010: Adventure Comics #12 -- 34,663 #55 out of 300
07/2010: Adventure Comics #516 -- 30,897 #63 out of 300
08/2010: Adventure Comics #517 -- 28,966 #61 out of 300
09/2010: Adventure Comics #518 -- 27,028 #71 out of 300
10/2010: Adventure Comics #519 -- 25,346 #76 out of 300
11/2010: Adventure Comics #520 -- 24,540 #71 out of 300
12/2010: Adventure Comics #521 -- 23,787 #73 out of 300
01/2011: Adventure Comics #522 -- 22,821 #64 out of 300
02/2011: Adventure Comics #523 -- 23,127 #78 out of 300
03/2011: Adventure Comics #524 -- 22,836 #89 out of 300
04/2011: Adventure Comics #525 -- 22,946 #78 out of 300
05/2011: Adventure Comics #526 -- 22,271 #78 out of 300
06/2011: Adventure Comics #527 -- 21,211 #144 out of 300
07/2011: Adventure Comics #528 -- 20,111 #106 out of 300
08/2011: Adventure Comics #529 -- 19,227 #123 out of 300

* Denotes no Legion content


SPECIALS/ANNUALS:

02/2011: Legion of Super-Heroes Annual #1 -- 22,201 #82 out of 300
03/2011: Legion of Super-Villains #1 -- 21,097 #96 out of 300

As a sign of what's to come next, Legion Lost sold out and has another printing coming. Legion of Super-Heroes has also sold out (no news on a new printing). I would imagine the new printings won't be available in time for the September charts, but we'll probably see that movement in October.

ICV2 has the September relaunch numbers. Both Legion titles do somewhat better than the last LSH relaunch, but significantly below the Adventure relaunch. One thing to keep in mind is the Diamond numbers are under-reported due to the issue being returnable. As well, the second printings and re-orders will factor in next month, but all and all the "New 52" initiative hasn't brought LSH to new heights, rather has restored it to previous levels. Now let's see how this plays out over the rest of the year.


LEGION OF SUPER HEROES

09/2011: Legion of Super Heroes #1 -- 45,362 (*), #47 out of 300


LEGION LOST

09/2011: Legion Lost #1 -- 41,726 (*), #56 out of 300

* denotes returnable issues, so sales are under reported by diamond (speculation runs from 10-20%).

Here's hoping the #2s still manage to keep a decent number, and that the declines won't be so steep.

ICV2 has the October relaunch numbers out. If you count the 2nd printings and the "Curse" Hardcover, there were SEVEN (!) Legion offerings this month from Diamond. Surely a record of some kind. I'll throw the second printing numbers into the totals for the first issues. Interestingly enough, the lower selling book (Legion Lost), had a higher 2nd print run than the main title. Sales look really healthy. Obviously there's a second issue drop off (and it looks exaggerated after the 2nd printings), but it's in line with most books and still above the last series.

Legion Secret Origin debuted at the same level as Lost, which is pretty fantastic for a tertiary Legion Title, and the Star Trek crossover was quite a bit further down, but it was from another publisher (IDW) and was their 2nd highest book for the month, with a 2nd printing already on the way.

And "The Curse" sold 1,155 copies, which isn't bad for a $50.00 hardcover reprinting 80's comics.

All and all, it was a pretty good month for Legion Comics.


LEGION OF SUPER HEROES

09/2011: Legion of Super Heroes #1 -- 45,362 (*), #47 out of 300 [53,285 after 2nd printing]
10/2011: Legion of Super-Heroes #2 -- 42,504 (*), #50 out of 300


LEGION LOST

09/2011: Legion Lost #1 -- 41,726 (*), #56 out of 300 [49,952 after 2nd printing]
10/2001: Legion Lost #2 -- 38,385 (*), #59 out of 300


LEGION: SECRET ORIGIN

10/2011: Legion Secret Origin #1 -- 38,248, #60 out of 300


STAR TREK/LEGION OF SUPER HEROES

10/2011: Star Trek Legion of Superheroes #1 -- 20,950, #114 out of 300


* denotes returnable issues, so sales are under reported by diamond (speculation runs from 10-20%).

I was wondering about the ST/LSH book from IDW... but even THAT was close to cracking the Top 100. Not bad at all for IDW. As you said, good numbers.

Anything DC is a hot property right now... pretty cool.

Still wondering why so few people bought the Star Trek crossover... I believed most Legion fans were buying anything Legion, so why do only 50% of them buy that book?

I want to buy the Star Trek/Legion crossover, but can't find it. My comic book store is not selling it and I can't find it on-line.

Does anyone know if I can buy it on-line?

If you're prepared to pay, uh, a premium, there are some on eBay.

Try midtowncomics.com

Quite a few reasons probably go into that. The primary culprit is probably that it isn't put out by DC. IDW is far from an "Indy" publisher, but it's also not in the league with Marvel or DC, and thus its books traditionally sell in a lower stratosphere. On top of that, since it isn't a DC book, DC did little or nothing to promote it (The Source promo for the first issue only came out after the issue did), so I honestly don't think a lot of the general Comic buying public were aware of the book (and since it isn't a big two publisher, how many stores would have ordered it to stock on the shelf)?

It's also, by its nature, out of continuity, and thus easily skipped by those who would skip such things. And finally, TOS may actually not appeal to enough Direct Market readers for it to be a draw (after all, TOS comics aren't setting the world on fire).

Now, as with all licensed properties, the actual bread and butter sales may be outside of the Direct Market, and therefore we aren't seeing it right now. But it is hard to judge, as we really don't get those circulation numbers.

That said, given all those factors, that's a pretty good number for a FOURTH Legion book that's a dollar more expensive than the other three out right now.

November numbers are out. After a very heady October, with great numbers and a record number of charting Legion items, we get a little more "grounded" numbers this time out. The two main books register a 10K drop each as the New52 "samplers" move on. The trick now is to see how much both books can hold off further erosion. Secret Origin also takes a big second issue tumble, which would be business as usual in the old charts, but one wonders what the new floor is for sales at DC. Meanwhile, the IDW Star Trek/Legion book has a really low second issue drop, and looks to be holding up quite well.

Hang on, things may get bumpy the next few months.


LEGION OF SUPER HEROES

09/2011: Legion of Super Heroes #1 -- 45,362 (*), #47 out of 300 [53,285 after 2nd printing]
10/2011: Legion of Super-Heroes #2 -- 42,504 (*), #50 out of 300
11/2011: Legion of Super-Heroes #3 -- 31,481 (*), #71 out of 300


LEGION LOST

09/2011: Legion Lost #1 -- 41,726 (*), #56 out of 300 [49,952 after 2nd printing]
10/2011: Legion Lost #2 -- 38,385 (*), #59 out of 300
11/2011: Legion Lost #3 -- 28,103 (*), #80 out of 300


LEGION: SECRET ORIGIN

10/2011: Legion Secret Origin #1 -- 38,248, #60 out of 300
11/2011: Legion Secret origin #2 -- 22,435, #108 out of 300


STAR TREK/LEGION OF SUPER HEROES

10/2011: Star Trek Legion of Superheroes #1 -- 20,950, #114 out of 300
11/2011: Star Trek Legion of Superheroes #2 -- 17,782, #124 out of 300


* denotes returnable issues, so sales are under reported by Diamond (speculation runs from 10-20%).

Star Trek/Legion is still one of IDW's top sellers.

Pre september we were seeing sales of around 22K for just about any Legion title. Looks like we are heading back to those numbers, Secret Origin is there already. I guess it is down to DC whether those numbers are still considered viable in the DCnU.