Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Legion #29 - Spoilers

I agree that it was nice to see Ferro and Triad on the cover for a change—they're 2 of my favorites—it's just that it was misleading. I'd gotten my hopes up that they'd be given significant roles in the story and was disappointed to see them barely featured at all.

I generally enjoy the covers, and I respect TnT's willingness to try new things in format, texture, and style. Some of them work better than others, but I enjoy the experimental value of their work.

I'm one of those who would buy the Legion if Alfred E. Neumann was on the cover, so Tom's points are well taken.

But one thing that disturbed me that no one else has mentioned yet: Did we need SIX freakin' splash pages in this issue?

Yes, six. Count 'em: Pages 4, 11, 17, 19, 21 and 22. That's almost a quarter of the story.

That's why this issue read so quickly, and why it feels as if nothing was accomplished (aside from Superboy and the rest hatching an alternate plan). The story didn't really accomplish anything: A second Darkseid shows up, trashes the first one and the Legion, and that's it. There was no feeling of suspense or tension. It was just "Wham! Bam! Thank you, Dan (and Andy)!"

I also disliked the pages of past eras being wiped out. After the first one, we got the idea.

What passed for character development this issue was Garth being welcomed back into the fold by Kid Quantum, who ought to leave the Legion and start a new career as a diplomat or social worker. It's great that she can make people feel better about themselves (as she previously did with Ayla), but that seems to be her only real contribution as leader. Several pages earlier, she was questioning what good the few Legionnaires on Legion World could do. Is that any way for a leader to think?

Otherwise, we got a reminder that Shikari likes to use curse words ... a reminder that Val and Andy used to be on Steeple ... a reminder that Thom loves Nura ... a reminder that Superboy doesn't think the Legion accepts him ... ho hum.

Well, I guess after 30 days, it is difficult to remember all these plot threads. It sure seems to be for the writers.

Something else else nice to say about the issue? It was immaculately drawn -- even the six splash pages. But I don't read comics for the art. I read for the story. Unfortunately all this issue really offered was the art.

HWW, I love reading your comments. Just wanted to say that. You hit the nail on the head constantly, AND you're hilarous.

I also wanted to mention that, having flipped back through the book, the art is ASTOUNDING. Truly, TRULY beautiful.

I got the feeling that maybe Chris (and/or Chip) might be getting some portfolio items ready with this issue. Or maybe hoping to make a killing by selling the splash pages. They normally sell for much, much more than a regular page.

If not that, then the story they were given was so skimpy they had to use splash pages to make up the full 22 pages.

Even the pages that weren't splashes were pretty sparse. Did we really need a full page for Kid Q to call Garth back when he walked away?

And why aren't the dang pages numbered anymore? It would make it a lot easier for us to discuss specifics.

[The Man From Cargg]
{[...] If my only experience with Saturn Girl was with the post-boot, screwed-up endangerment to her fellow Legionnaires, I would absolutely loathe her. So many current characters are getting by on the grace of the strong work of pre-boot writers. }

Someone finally nailed my own reaction. I hadn't quite been able to define what was troubling me about DnA's recent work. They want to show something (supposedly) new, but they're using Legion resonances that don't officially "exist" any more, and that's lazy writing.

This wasn't true with "Legion Lost" or its "Worlds" aftermath. There, though, Coipel was the drawback, as he hadn't learned anatomy and perspective yet.

Now we have Batista and some gorgeous covers, and the writers are running out of conceptual steam. (And not even bothering, now, with character nuance, except for one-liners. "Big is what you DO" is a keeper.)

Some cylinders apparently are misfiring at all times in recent years. In the '80s, though ... *sigh*

And, yes, far too many splash pages. I see pacing meant for trade paperbacks, ever since the start of "Dream Crime." Splashes break up longer books, which, sadly, we're unlikely to get. The whole industry seems to be pacing itself for TPBs, though. (Even someone so idiosyncratic as Alan Moore.)

And, finally, being notably irritated about time travel absurdities isn't really worthwhile. (Except, again, about their having way too many non-Legion splash pages in a serial issue to show this particular "wave" twist.)

It's set 1000 years hence. Some characters commute or emigrate from other times. (If only to sell books.) And those who don't are still framed as contrasts to our own era, just as much as were the Normans and Saxons in "The Adventures of Robin Hood." They don't get framed as what they were, nor as what they're likely to evolve to be. They reflect or refract ourselves. If they didn't, it'd be SF, and not serial fantasy.

Compared to that inevitable esthetic shortcoming -- since this isn't fan fiction, with an initial audience of one wish-fulfiller {rueful smile} -- feeling rage over time "waves" that we know are impossible doesn't have much point.

And speaking of specifics ... on the third story page from the end (yeah, it's a pain to not have numbers) ...

Who is that silhouetted winged figure at the top? It's not Shikari -- she (it looks female) has feathers.

Did I miss something earlier? (A cadet, perhaps?) Any speculation?? Is someone returning from the pre-boot mists??? Hmmm????

That would be Darkseid's Hawkwoman servant, most likely.

Oh, it's not a huge thing. I just feel like stories that are focused on time--not just "here's a guy from the past/future", but on the cosmic consequences of time manipulation--are usually meant to showcase the writer's talent for handling convoluted logic. As such, when they don't do that well, it really reflects badly on the writer. Like stories about touchy social issues--do them well or not at all.

That, and this exact same gimmick was used in Zero Hour, which was absolutely terrible, so I'd think they'd want to veer away from that.

Personally, I wouldn't object to a Legion set up more as "SF" and less as "Serial Fantasy." Legion in a Transmet-ish future would rock! But if they want to keep it more fantasy-oriented, they should avoid bringing in harder-SF elements like "the collapse of the time continuum" and then massacring them.

LOL. It was probably meant to be the Hawkgirl Servant of Darkness, Grey.

Yawn. Other than the lovely art, this issue was completely forgettable. It basically boiled down to an overlong dialogue between the two Darkseids, several scenes of the past disappearing, and the Legion fighting tons of parademons and stuff while exchanging sound bites. BORING. :rolleyes:

Agree. I have the unfortunate suspicion that DnA won't be able to break their pattern of anticlimactic story-arch endings with Foundations, either. I hope I'm wrong.

You could be right. I'm assuming that the story was written full script, with DnA specifying how many panels were on each page.

Alternatively, they may have given Chris a description of what happened on each page and left the number of panels up to him. But even so, how do you draw multiple panels for "The older, crumbling Darkseid welcomes his startled younger self as the Legionnaires fight Darkseid's minions in the background" or "Dark Orion's gun blasts the older Darkseid to smithereens"?

Of course, they may have given Chris a plot to work from and let him decide what goes on which page. Or DnA and Chris may have been mandated by DC to stretch the story out for TPB purposes.

In any case, DnA's names are listed as the writers (on the first splash page, of course), so they deserve much of the credit -- such as it is -- for the Liefeldian shallowness of this issue.

Agreed - the art was nice but there was too much of it and not enough story. This ish sure was a quick read!

But given the current craze for having 6 issue arcs which can be sold again as complete book length collection we can probably expect more of this kind of disapointment.

Remember the dream sequence in the diner during the Universo story? That was pure filler. I guess at least this issue unveiled Darkseid's master plan, such as it is...

My initial reaction after reading it was "is that it??". HHW - Liefeldian shallowness is the perfect description! There were enough splash pages for the whole arc in this one book.

Poor show DnA.

I can't believe that this is the same writing team tht gave us Legion Lost.

Liefeldian shallowness is a perfect term for this issue, agreed.

I actually kinda liked the diner story. At least it was a story, and not 5 minutes of a fight scene on steroids.

Ditto.

lil'rhino

Everyone's blaming this on having to have enough issues for a trade, but there's nothing stopping writers from actually giving us *more* story in those six issues. Even if there weren't as much plot, lord knows with a book like the Legion there's tons of "filler" that would be welcome like seeing an actual resolution to the Jo/Tinya/Imra triangle (or throw in Brin for a quadrangle), seeing more team reaction to Garth's homecoming rather than just seeing Imra blow him off a couple of times, seeing Sensor start to mellow and accept her form (did she take up Cham's offer to talk? Did she talk to Andy?), some characterization for Gear (who's been at the bottom of popularity polls), some scene to acknowledge that the team has recently had an influx of new members (Gear, Wildfire, Shikari, Dreamer, Timberwolf) and how they get along with the older guard etc.. There's always stuff to pack a Legion book even if the plot is thin.

There's been a lot of dumping on DnA and I still like what they're doing, I guess it's the pace of the stories and the fact that they seem to drop a lot of character developments that's been disappointing.

Batista did a great job though -- lord knows how much of a pain it must've been to draw all those huge crowd fight scenes.

The first thing I thought about when finishing the issue was also: "Damn, that's a whole lot of splash pages!" I hadn't been to the Great Escape since before Christmas, so I got 28 and 29 together...which may be why I'm not so upset about the pacing. I read two issues to get one issue of plot development.

Overall, though, I think this is DnA's best work since early in this series. Sure, there's not much character development going on (what else is new) and the pacing is glacial, but at least they're tackling a Legion-worthy foe, dealing with a central Legion theme (time travel), and featuring Superboy (which means a lot to me, if not everyone). For the first time in two years or so, I'm really anticipating the next issue, even if it does have four splash pages.

One thing that spooked me was when Star Boy commented about loving Dreamer till the end. I kept thinking bad things were going to happen to him by the end of the issue (of course instead, nothing much actually transpired).

Based on past statements by Steve Lightle. I'd go with the later.

And I have a question. What the hell was the point of introducing 21 Academy students at the beginning of this arc?!? Or the Mekt subplot?!? Have they made any impact on this story since?

I'm in with the others saying that one of DnA's weak points is their subplots. Everything seems to start with promise, little hints and stuff that may give us more than the main plot but it all fizzles out.

I've stated elsewhere how I've been reading the older Superboy and LSH titles recently and had forgotten about the complexity of the stories. We got layered stories and back-up stories. Let me say that again. BACK-UP STORIES! I wouldn't mind the skimp we've been getting if we had a back-up story telling what the cadets did first day in class. Or if any of them were asked to help. Or what Mekt is doing (off assembling the Villains maybe?). Maybe they could have told their Cub story as a back-up if they had eliminated some of the filler we've been getting.

I always thought the shorter stories are what built the substance the Legion has been built upon. The large story arcs may provide greater action, but the short stories and backup tales are most often where we learn something about the characters. The short stories of Jim Shooter and Cary Bates and the integral multi-subplots of Paul Levitz was what built the Legion to greatness. It does seem that since Mr. Levitz, the writing has been just borrowing from and revising their predecessors. DnA finally broke that bad habit with 'Lost' and 'Worlds'.

I want to thank Tom Feister for his Legion cover work and his comments here. I found it particularly interesting that he often didn't have the choice of the cover content. If he was keen on doing a Timber Wolf cover, I bet it would have been awesome! How did Ferro and Triad rate more important in Editor Wacker's mind? Anyhow, I would welcome more of his cover work on the Legion in the future. I think the depiction of Darkseid has been second to none.

By the way, I thought the Star Boy losing his powers on and off, and the Dreamer vision of his grave were lost subplots, but Thom's statement at the end of 29 and the comments mentioned above have me thinking...

Finally, in regard to the Cadets being introduced, then since unmentioned probably have to do with the Legion 45th Anniversary more than anything else. This story arc has tried to bring many fond elements into it from Legion past - Superboy, the Subs (Cadets), and perhaps their greatest ever adversary, Darkseid. Don't be too surprised if the Super Pets show up!

And yet I wonder how much of the recent less-layered approach is rationalized by attempting to lure new readers.

Good point! I bet you're right.