Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Oh Yeah, That Forum: The Titans TITANS new ongoing series: Should I or Shouldn't I?

Oh...I've been reading this...I don't like it.

It definitely doesn't have the feel of the old Wolfman/Perez days. It's been quite boring and slow, I did like Tempest's segway, but half the team is useless, they never get written very well, I forget that Flash and Red Arrow are even on the roster. Needs more Raven.

As for art, I was hoping that Churchill would head the art. His female faces are a bit square, but I liked it.

#17: Who is that doing a bad job of masquerading as Donna Troy? Whatever this 'new direction' for the character is, it needs to be stopped now. Nip that nastiness in the bud.

A result of contact with Genocide? Exposure to Raven's unconscious empathetic manipulation? That time of the month? I don't care- end it.

Gar was fun, though.

I would love to see this book become about all those 70s Titans that don't have a home anywhere and are too groovy to languish in limbo forver -

Golden Eagle
Mal
Bumblebee
Flamebird
Hawk III
Dove II
(am I forgetting anyone?)

Throw in Red Arrow and Beast Boy and bring back Lilith and you've got the makings of a great team there! And one that isn't constrained by whatever's going on in 20 other books too.

/shaking fist to the heavens/ When are the 70s Titans going to get their day in the sun?

Let's see... those characters aren't quite as limbo-languishing as all that.

Bumblebee's a supporting cast member of the new DOOM PATROL series <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text"> once again stuck at a few inches tall and living in a doll house and acting as Elastic Woman's confidante. </span></span>

Mal's been mentioned in the same series, but hasn't appeared yet. <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Apparently,his marriage with Karen is in trouble. </span></span>

Golden Eagle is now living with the Thanagarians, I think. No, wait- is he still that alien chick's love slave? Forerunner, right?

I'm actually not sure of his status. Thanagar recently attacked some New Kryptonians, so maybe he'll pop up in WORLD OF KRYPTON, or one of the SUPERMAN books.

He had a great storyline in the most recent HAWKMAN series.

Flamebird's name has been subsumed by someone else, but Bette Kane is supposed to be showing up in DETECTIVE COMICS. I haven't been picking that one up (though I need to).

Hawk III and Dove II are big players in the first issue of BLACKEST NIGHT: TITANS #1. Things didn't look so good for one of the pair at the end of that issue- their original namesakes are somewhat unexpectedly fairly key to whatever's happening. Possibly.

Beast Boy seems poised to returning to the Teen version of the team, this time as the adult mentor. Maybe.

Lilith and Tula <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">and Tempest </span></span> are currently Black Lanterns.

Now, the Young Heroes in Love- *that's* a team truly languishing in limbo.

Yeesh! Some of them would've been better off staying in limbo!

Bette has shown up in Detective Comics by the way ML. Though not in costume yet.

Thanks, Blacula. Does it seem like she will be donning a costume? I guess she'll take up a third ID...

I don't think she will in the current arc but the next one apparently brings us the origin of this new Batwoman so she may do so there. Maybe this Kate Kane will have been inspired to take up the mantle of the Bat by the original Bat-girl herself, Bette? Wouldn't that be a laugh!

Guys, I have question concerning some of the team's older history, as in the Team Titans. Does anyone remember a part of the group called Metallik? Five girls, giant robot, ring a bell?

Thanx. I have this issue. The problem is I have no idea which member is which. I know which one Bongo is, the black girl with the dreads, and Backbeat's the one who looks like Mirage with sunglasses, but I don't know which one's Axe, which one's Fusion, and which one's Brass out of armor.

I actually felt kinda mad when I found out there was a GIANT ROBOT IN TEEN TITANS. Not including Toyman.

(And now I've just noticed the Twin Towers)

BLACKEST NIGHT: TITANS-- Man, the creepiness intensified with those scenes with Donna. Omen's powers certainly do make her a potentially meeeaaan adversary.

Donna's little eye enhancements have me on the edge of my seat. What does this mean?!?!? #^%#^&**#!

The last page- with all the recent Titans Black Lanterns kind of made me sick a little. I dread reading what seems like will have to come after that page.

I can't believe that some of these characters are going to be left like this as a result of a DC Zombie story. Surely not. #^&*((*^^!!!

Just popped in to note that even though I enjoyed the TITANS BLACKEST NIGHT mini, I put the last 3 issues of the regular series back on the shelf at my CBS. 3 different creative teams?

Someone call me when this book gets a stable creative team. I've no interest in reading a monthly series of fill-ins.

good news - Superboy is back to the Titans...Conner Kent...that is. now I am hoping that Red Robin and Kid Flash return too. I really really like to see Superboy, Robin, Kid Flash, and Wonder Girl together - their dynamic is so good that it cannot be ignored at all.

interestingly enough, Superboy, Wonder Girl (Donna Troy), and Kid Flash just got BLed, (Black Lanternized) even though they are not dead.

Catching things up-- reading the disintegratio of both Titans teams has not been a barrelfull of green monkeys.

The spotlights were fun... and I welcome seeing how these characters develop the lives apart from the team that they should be living. HOWEVER- I don't get all the 'why are they together' criticism. Living together, yes... but meeting and adventuring periodically? They've got access to instantaneous transportation, so why shouldn't friends who regard each other as family meet often? I know I would, if I could, pop over to visit people who've been friends...

Ah, well- most recently, Roy Harper's been maimed and Donna and Cyborg are presiding over his initial healing (no purple ray in sight, too bad), while Starfire ponders joining the Justice League. I've seen the solicits, so there's not a lot of tension in this development, for me. I don't enjoy Dick as Batman a bit, so that was another reason to wince.

Those are 'global' sort of concerns, though. As an issue, the most recent one read fairly well, if a trifle histrionic.

This was a good week for last page surprises, as a longtime foe (but never fully developed as a Titans enemy, IMO) appears out of the blue... but just out of the right shade of blue, as this particular villain's M.O. fits right in with the proceedings and could well be a catalyst that makes future events we already think we know about more palatable.

#22-- Have we ever seen info about Phobia's background before? I liked that she was explored a bit, even though her motivations seem less weighty than the character's design and powers would seem to warrant. Is that a negative? I'm not sure.

Starfire's inner turmoil is not hitting the notes intended, I don't think. Surprise, suprise. She's a Titan... she's JLA... she wants to fly off into space... she's going to be a REBEL... I'm starting not to care.

Way too many statues honoring dead Titan-- it's too bad that that's become the first thing a reader might well think about when considering any hero affiliated with a Titans team.

Donna Troy = identity crisis

Starfire = group identity crisis

Although I've not purchased the last several issues, the cover of the orignals (# 23 I think) was too much to pass up. Glad I didn't, I enjoyed the spin. Plus we got to see Lilith and a VERY INTERESTING TWIST to the Arsenal/Donna relationship.

Lilith? I missed her?

Yeah, this was a flashback to the after-Lilith pre-Mal team, and Lilith looks lovely!

Her role her was to tell Wonder Girl <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">that she foresaw her husband-- a reahead-- dying after they married. This is RIGHT AFTER Roy/Arsenal asks Donna to MARRY her (that was the twist to their relationship). 'Course, Lil didn't realize she was forseeing Terry's death not Roy's.</span></span>

It was a good issue.

Should you? No.

TITANS VILLAINS FOR HIRE REVIEW

All I pretty much have to say is that it took all five of them to kill Ryan Choi. A teenager powered by at least six or seven gods and a genocidal sociopath who blew up a small country. But since this has to be longer I'll continue. I was never Ryan Choi's biggest fan, that is to say I didn't dislike him, but I agree with comic book resources zero out of five stars critique and them calling this a "superhero snuff film" if I got the words right. Ryan had a lot more potential that's now wasted until another contrived resurrection story takes place after all the mourning is said and done six years from now.

Deathstroke is pretty much doing the same thing he did with Titans East, by promising these people something he obviously is never going to be able to give them. Does anyone else miss the days when he wasn't a grand ubervillain? No, to call him an ubervillain would actually have him doing something big, yet if it took all five of them to kill a relatively inexperienced hero it just makes them out as losers. Cheshire continues to prove what a selfish, hypocritical little nothing she really is by a mourning the child she was willing to let die so long as she had a replacement. I fail to understand why they wrote Osiris going out as a hero in Blackest Night just to bring him back and throw him in with these losers. Tattooed Man I also feel sorry for, but I was intrigued by Cinder and I'd like to know more about her. But she was the ONLY interesting thing about this book.

I know they said that the DCU wasn't going to be a bright, happy place after Blackest Night but I didn't think that meant we'd be regressing to 1985. We can now add Ryan Choi to a list made up of Lian Harper, Tempest, Dolphin, Damage, Holly Granger, Cassandra Cain, Jason Todd, the Reboot and Threeboot Legion, Tasmanian Devil and the Global Guardians, Anima, and a lot of others out there who haven't had proper treatment. I don't want to sound like I'm whining, and if I am I'm apologizing, but to be honest I would've given this book zero as well if I could've.

I actually feel bad for the people who worked on this book, and I'm not saying this to be smug, because chances are, in the future people who get bad reviews for their books will probably be saying "well, at least it's not as bad as what Villains for Hire got."

That, and I'd actually prefer Ryan Choi as the Atom to Ray Palmer.

I think Mystery Lad said it best.



http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/files/2010/06/titans-27.jpg

This is my attempt at a more coherent and intelligent description of how I feel about the Titans, how I've felt before, and I how feel about this direction they have now.

The Teen Titans was one of the original teams I fell in love with. It helped that an old issue I had from my dad was this, like, guide to Titans pre-Crisis history, which is to say it was probably made before the first Crisis. It’s how I first found out about the Joker’s Daughter. I watched the cartoon before I started collecting the comics, but Johns’ Titans series was one of the first books I started with when I began seriously collecting. It was the site of seeing Bette Kane as Batwoman that did it, but I hadn’t started until it got up to #26. The Titans will always be one of my favorite teams, no matter what, but their current state and my former apathy towards it makes me nauseous, if I’m not exaggerating. My favorite members listed by their appearance in each team, are…

Lilith Clay, Joker’s Daughter, Bat-Girl, Phantasm, Redwing, Terra II, Metallik, Supergirl (Matrix), Prysm, Arsenal, Tempest, Young Frankenstein, Riddler’s Daughter, Bombshell, Ravager, Miss Martian, Kid Devil, Sun Girl, Son of Vulcan, and Persuader.

Original Teen Titans: This is the version of the team I think I’ll always love the most. The Fab Five, along with Lilith Clay, Hawk & Dove I, Mal Duncan, Joker’s Daughter, Bumblebee, Bat-Girl, Golden Eagle, Beast Boy, Aquagirl, and Gnarrk. But, surprisingly, I only have a couple of issues about this team. The one that would’ve been about the African American Jericho, and the last issue that I bought as a gift for my dad years ago. In terms of reprints, I have the Christmas Carol done with Robin, Wonder Girl, Kid Flash, and Aqualad. Duela Dent is one of my all-time favorite characters, if not my ultimate favorite character, but looking back now I feel bad that her death hadn’t originally generated such a response from me other than quietly holding Paul Dini in a small amount of contempt. Even if she was conceived for less than ideal reasons, Betty Kane is another favorite. As Bat-Girl. But she has proven to be kick ass as Flamebird, and hopefully the Batwoman series will give her more time to shine,

New Teen Titans: Surprisingly, I know very little of what went on with this team. It was the one that made the Titans famous. Wolfman and Perez. We had Robin, Wonder Girl, Kid Flash, Changeling, Cyborg, Raven, and Starfire. We saw Terra, and Danny Chase, and Jericho. For a Titan fan such as myself, I’ve never read the Trigon story, or the Terra story. One of my oldest comics, however, is the culmination of the HIVE story, with Aqualad and Aquagirl, the HIVE mistress killing herself, and Changeling being re-acquainted with Jillian Jackson. Although one of my more recent acquisitions a couple of years was back an issue which dealt with Lilith Clay and Azrael, and the revelation that Lilith’s mother was the Sun Goddess Thia. I also bought a couple months back a whole bunch of New Teen Titans issues which deal with Starfire and her sister, but I haven‘t really read them. What I have read was the Teen Titans Spotlight issue about Magenta, before she fully snapped in Flash.

Titans Hunt & Team Titans: Now this one I have more information on. Years back when I was in middle school I bought a whole bunch of these New Titans issues at this bookstore on the boardwalk at Wildwood, New Jersey. Pantha and Baby Wildebeest, Lord Chaos, Phantasm, the Team Titans and Terra’s seeming re-appearance. Of these issues the farthest I got was, I think either #92 or #93, with Red Star and Cyborg going to Russia with Sarah Charles. The first Team Titans issue I bought was the #1 which had Redwing’s origin story. After that was #6, the Christmas issue, which I ordered online because I have a thing for holiday issues. I now own all the #1s, and each has been autographed by Kevin Maguire. But what really got me interested in this team, even if I own 1, 4, 6, and 7, was the Metallik girls. Bongo, Brass, Fusion, Axe, and Backbeat. I went nuts trying to find out which girl was which. The only two who I fully knew when I first found out about them in #6, were that Bongo had the dreads and Backbeat wore the sunglasses.

Arsenal’s Titans: I only have two bits of information on this team, when Arsenal had to lead it under orders from Sarge Steel. This was when Donna became Darkstar and was dating Kyle Rayner and Roy started wearing the gold armor. It lasted for fifteen issues. That issues I have would be #126 and the “Lost Pages” story from Titans Secret Files #1. Both books were illustrated by Rick Mays, and both have helped cement my idea that Mays is THE artist for Roy Harper. This team also features one of the most underrated and obscure Titans, Jarras Minion. He’s even more obscure than the first Azrael, since Azrael had speaking parts in JLA/Titans, and Minion didn’t even have thus.

Teen Titans II: Dan Jurgens attempt at the team, which had next to nothing to do with the other Titans team. Composed of four children with linked alien heritage and led by a currently teenage Ray Palmer. This series didn’t fare so well, but it lasted longer than the last Titans team. It represents, at least in my opinion, the better aspects of the 90s. No edgy ultra violence, skimpy women with anatomy that makes you wonder how they can breath without being in pain. I only have a few issues of this run, which is more than I can say for Arsenal’s Titans. The first one I bought was #17, which was the try-out issue that had Captain Marvel Jr. and Fringe joining. I bought this issue simply because I wanted to know more about this character called Sweet 16, and I was luckily able to find both issues that had her. The second was the one with the disastrous date between Captain Marvel Jr. and Argent. The later issues I bought was the one for Joto’s funeral, which also focused on Omen (Lilith Clay), and this week I got the New Year’s Evil: Dark Nemesis book. It’s kind of sad realizing what happened to this team. Argent’s the only member who’s had a chance to shine, and even that has gone dim lately. Joto had to change his name and look because another translation of his name is a “derogatory” term. Risk has been maimed twice and looks like trailer trash, if he‘s still alive. I’ve already said how I feel about Ray Palmer. And Prysm and Fringe have disappeared, save for one appearance by Prysm in the second Titans of Tomorrow story arc.

Titans: The re-forming of the Fab Five with Argent, Starfire, Jesse Quick, Damage, and Cyborg. The first issue of this book was near the end, involving Damage and Jesse Quick, with those ghosts the Phantasmoria. Later exposure of this team was the JLA/Titans crossover TPB, #28 with the DEO Orphans, #30 with Cheshire’s trial, and #33 focusing on Argent, Theta and Epsilon. In all honesty, I don’t prefer Peter Grau’s artwork. This week, though, I received Titans #1 and Secret Files #1. I think this was the first time I ever saw Mark Buckingham work on something besides Fables. Amongst the art I’ve seen so far in this book, I like the way both Buckingham and Pelletier draw Arsenal, but Grau and Mike Collins I’m not a fan of. Despite the praise I give Devin Grayson for her Relative Heroes series and her work on Arsenal, I understand there was some dislike for her “revelation” of Damage’s childhood abuse. But another thing I enjoy about this series was it’s use of the Kingdom Come Titans during the Dark Angel story.

Teen Titans III: The series I started collecting with. I honestly do like Geoff Johns as a writer, and I do enjoy most of the stories he did for this book. But his last one, Titans East, I was disappointed. The pros of this book include the Titans of Tomorrow story arc, the two-page spread of the Doom Patrol’s many adventures which got me interested in them, the many characters introduced as members during One Year Later, and the fact that Duela Dent had more screen time than she had in the last twenty years. I never read the first six issues, or the whole Superboy betraying the team, and I can’t honestly say, looking back now, I approve of what Johns did with Pantha, Bushido, Baby Wildebeest, and Risk. Sean McKeever was an alright author, but his writing cemented my dislike for Cassie Sandsmark, but he did bring back Bombshell. Felicia Henderson… the woman fills most of her character’s dialogues with clichéd one-liners. I heard JT Krul will be writing this soon, doesn’t really matter because I already dropped Teen Titans. But the Coven of Three back-up, with Traci 13, Zatara, and Black Alice is really good and it sucks that I can’t support it without it being counted as support for the Titans. Ted Naifeh I was familiar with from his work as the creator of Courtney Crumrin, and I was surprised at how different the art was, but not in a bad way. The problem with the Teen Titans is that they’ve become the Junior Justice League.

Titans II: I have no idea why, in all honesty, I kept buying issues of this series. The art was horrible and inconsistent. There was no honest to God direction, nothing special about the stories, they kept switching writers every couple of issues. They should’ve just called this “Teen Titans Spotlight”. I don’t know why they included Roy on the team considering they never showed him on the cover of #1. I wonder what they would’ve done if Cry for Justice hadn’t been so delayed… or was it intentional? The way they flaunted in front of us that Lian was dead and expected us not to realize something horrible happened to her. It figures I stopped right before #24 came out. This was before I cared about them, mind you. That, and they finally dealt with Tempest. And by dealt, I meant kill Dolphin and Cerdian after leaving the readers wondering for three years. Setting him up to become King of Atlantis and then kill him in Blackest Night feels like more of an insult. This whole thing started from the Titans East special. Most of the people who attempted to join that group are either dead or haven’t appeared in three years. Power Boy, Anima, and Holly Granger are dead. Little Barda, Lagoon Boy, and Vulcan haven’t appeared since. Dove and Cyborg are the only two left standing.

Terror Titans: The Terror Titans are a good example of a book done on villains as the main characters. These four “Legacy” villains, Disruptor, Dreadbolt, Copperhead, and Persuader, were banded together under the new Clock King. Out of all the Terror Titans, I liked Elise Kimble, Persuader III, the best, and feel the most sorry for her. Unlike Dreadbolt, Persuader had two parents. One who loved her, her dad, and one who… well, her mom was something out of a horror film. Growing up with that woman is what turned Elise to cold-hearted killer she is now, but she’s not completely cold. You feel sorry for her when Clock King reunites her with her dad, they have a quick reunion, and he kills him right and front of her. It doesn’t excuse her help in torturing Kid Devil, or her murdering Molecule and setting up Dreadbolt, but you understand where she’s coming from. It puts her, and the other two, in the same grey area as the Secret Six. If any villain ever needed her own title, she should. Sean McKeever introduced a bunch of new characters in the Dark Side Club’s tournament. TNTeena, Face, Pristine, Son of the Fallen, and Poprocket. Of course, three of them dead. Pristine I actually liked most of all, but it sucked that she never got any speaking lines or a proper explanation as to WHY her TK abilities manifested as a giant eye. It made me wonder if she was connected to the Emerald Empress in some way. I’m glad the art on this book was consistent, and McKeever has had a better knack of portraying Rose Wilson than most other writers.

Villains For Hire: I’ve dropped both Titans books, out of protest to their treatment, Roy and Lian Harper’s treatment, and Brightest Day. The Villains for Hire special was nothing but a snuff film, I agree with Comic Book Resources. The Secret Six are a far better example of how to do a villain team. They haven’t killed any superheroes but they’ve proven how dangerous they are time and time again. Each one of them could probably take down Superman if they wanted. But they’re more human than most characters. The Villains for Hire are just sad and pathetic.

My thoughts on the line-ups of both teams so far…

Wonder Girl: Whiny and boring. In Geoff Johns run, near the end, she finally accepted Rose as a member. And then, in McKeever’s, she says “sometimes a one-eyed sociopath is a one-eyed sociopath”.
Cyborg: Condescending and boring.
Aquagirl: A hypocrite and a tease.
Miss Martian: I like her and I wish she’d get her own book.
Bombshell: I also like her, McKeever showed she wasn’t the giant a$$ she was in Johns run.
Kid Flash: No comment.
Superboy: No comment.
Blue Beetle: You know what? Despite what I’ve said before, I actually like Jaime. I honestly do. I wish I had supported his book longer then I did.
Kid Devil: Sorry Eddie. Losing your powers was pretty much the same as signing your death warrant. Was it Henderson or Miller who killed you?
Kid Eternity: Who? He’s been gone so long I wonder if the writers remember him.
Raven: Stop rehashing the same “good to evil” stories. I preferred her sarcastic, animated version.
Beast Boy: Stop breaking up and getting back together with Raven, then come talk to me.
Ravager: I wonder what’s going to happen to Rose now that her back-up feature is over. Another character who deserves her own title.

And the so-called “Villains for Hire”.

Deathstroke: Loser.
Cheshire: Pathetic little nothing.
Tattooed Man: I feel sorry for him.
Osiris: What was the point of giving him a heroic send-off in Blackest Night just to put him in this?
Cinder: Honestly, a bit interested in her.

I’m always going to love the Titans, but what is it going to take for me to support them? Too much that DC obviously won’t do. If ever given the chance I would want to write Titans. I don’t know how good I would be, but I can promise I’d be better than most of the writers they’ve had so far. But, fair warning, I’d probably run Cheshire and Deathstroke in the ground I hate them so much. There’s now a split in the Fab Five. On one side, you have Roy and Garth, and on the other you have Dick, Wally, and Donna. I group Roy and Garth together because the both of them have been marred by death in the DCU.

^Our opinions tend to match up re: favorite Titans eras. I love the Duela Dent/Titans West stuff from the too-short-lived 70s revival.

I also think Rick Mays was fanTAStic! What the heck is he doing nowadays??

I think he did a couple of things for Top Cow, and he worked on the Livewires miniseries for Marvel a few years back.

He should be on a regular book. I miss his art!