According to the Daily Mail, they actually enhance our reading pleasure.
Personally, I always read the ending of a book first, since the enjoyment is seeing how the author got there, not the ending itself.
[ August 15, 2011, 02:46 AM: Message edited by: Fat Cramer ]
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I avoid them at all costs, which is a behavior I have in response to years online having things spoiled for me (going back to a major Legion Lost spoiler in a thread title on the DCMB's).
People love them though.
Posted by Rockhopper Lad on :
I actually like spoilers. I only go to the CBS every other week, so I usually can't avoid them anyway.
This may also explain why I dislike mystery novels--the whole point is to figure out what happened.
Posted by profh0011 on :
*****SPOILERS!!!!!***** (I MEAN IT)
I have never once been able to predict how an Agatha Christie murder mystery would go in advance, but it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'm too much in awe of how she, as a writer, thinks, and the incredible way she put together such complex puzzles where every piece fits so perfectly.
I go out of my way to avoid knowing what's coming. In the case of DOCTOR WHO on the Sci-Fi Channel, I had to shut off the sound and avert my eyes because at every single commercial break they ran promos for next week's episode during THIS week's. Idiots. I may have been the only person in the US who was actually surprised when, at the cliffhanger halfway thru David Tennant's 1st season finale... Click Here For A SpoilerTHE DALEKS showed up. Hah.
[ August 14, 2011, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: profh0011 ]
Posted by Emily Sivana on :
I love spoilers. When I got the last Harry Potter book, the first thing I did was open the book to the last page. I have a hard time understanding why others don't want to be spoiled, it is fiction.
Posted by Shining Son on :
This article is making the rounds as a link, but I'm disappointed that it make no distinction between genuine surprises and basic plot structure.
There's Suspense, where-- as in Columbo-- the audience knows whodunit, and the story is in how the characters figure it out. Then there's Mystery, as in Agatha Christie, where the audience doesn't know the answer but at least knows the question, and tries to figure it out with the characters.
And then there are Surprises, things that happen totally unexpected, or a twist on what you were expecting.
The article seems to think most people prefer suspense over mystery, but I think that's ridiculous. Some prefer suspense, some mystery, and the article only explains why those who prefer suspense may happen to do so. Spoilers simply turn a mystery into suspense, so sure, SOME people will then prefer it.
That they don't delineate the idea of spoiling genuine surprises and shocks within the plot to simply knowing the ending is very clumsy way of making their way-too-overgeneralized-to-begin-with point. Or very clumsy thinking if they don't see the difference themselves.
Myself, I generally don't mind plot spoilers, but I'd rather big surprises actually surprise me.
Posted by Quislet, Esq on :
For me, sometimes knowing what is going to happen in the movie takes me right out of it. Instead of watching the movie and seeing what happens and how the characters act, I am thinking "Ok X is about to happen." or I am checking off a list of things that I know should be happening.
I do think an occassional spoiler here and there is ok. BUt too many of them do spoil a movie. there is a tipping point when you seen so many spoilers there is nothing new to see when you do go to see the whole movie.
Posted by Quislet, Esq on :
profh0011,
Just because a person does not like mysteries does not make them "brain dead" and unable/unwilling to think.
This is a very disrespectful comment and one I see no reason for.
[ August 13, 2011, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: Quislet, Esq ]
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
My opinion is that a genuinely well-written story should pay to re-read/re-watch/re-whatever, so that, even knowing exactly what is going to happen in it, the story should still be enjoyable.
That said, there are spoilers and then there are spoilers. It's always difficult trying to decide how much information about a particular work is acceptable going into it without spoiling one's enjoyment, and it seems to be largely an individual thing. I've known some people who won't even watch the next episode previews for a TV show. For me, knowing stuff like, for example, "there's a death coming up" heightens the anticipation, but I'd rather not know the identity of the death ahead of time until it happens.
Posted by Dev - Em on :
Well said EDE. Spoilers are a tricky thing. What really constitutes a spoiler? Reveals like a blurb, or solicit that "someone dies next issue" can be construed as some as a spoiler...but it's also marketing to generate interest.
There can be a fine line between spoilers and teasers, and that line varies from person to person.
Posted by profh0011 on :
"a genuinely well-written story should pay to re-read/re-watch/re-whatever, so that, even knowing exactly what is going to happen in it, the story should still be enjoyable."
Classic example for me: DEATH ON THE NILE (1978). I had NO IDEA where it was going, who did it or why. But it was so well-told, that by the end of the movie, I was not only STUNNED, I was able to follow every single plot point, and remember them. 2 weeks later-- my Dad (who enjoyed it as much as I had) and me went to see it AGAIN-- and enjoyed it JUST as much. It was an entirely different experience, and has been ever since (I must have seen it a dozen times by now). But in cases like this, you ONLY get ONE chance to see it "cold"-- not knowing in advance. I consider it downright CRIMINAL for anyone to blow the surprises on a thing like that.
And I've had it happen more than once.
"He was on Earth ALL THE TIME!"
"The bad guy is REALLY HIS FATHER!"
"It's the only murder mystery where EVERYBODY DID IT!"
And then there's the one I came up with myself...
"The killer is the ONLY ONE who COULDN'T POSSIBLY have done it."
Posted by Dev - Em on :
Prof, serious question. Do you like movies that are historical in nature...ones that you know the outcome, because it actually happened? Gettysburg, Titanic, Apollo 13 to name a few, not saying that they are all great movies, but wondering if knowing the ending to these movies ruins them for you?
Posted by profh0011 on :
I loved APOLLO 13. A lot of that had to do with being very much interested in the space program since a very young age.
I do think "historical" films are in a genre of their own. Similar to Biblical films. I doubt anyone watches something like THE LAST DAYS OF SODAM AND GOMORRAH and is surprised by what happens to the city at the end.
However, many stories are designed to have surprised. In those cases, I cannot fathom why ANYONE would want to know details in advance. In the case of MURDER ON THE ORIENT EXPRESS, my best friend BLEW THE ENDING for me before I ever got a chance to see it. As a result, I never got the chance to see it "cold", and will never know if KNOWING the ending in advance is why I wound up not liking it in the long run.
Posted by superboymddjr on :
I loved watching Sherlock Holmes movie (played by Robert Downey)...amazing...I tried to figure out who did it...perfect ending just like what it was written in Sherlock Holmes books! no ruin or no spoiler surprise. I enjoyed it. I loved reading Agatha Christie (only Hercule Poirot in it...ah...)
I love spoilers as well as because it makes me wanting to see the movie or read the book, instead of ruining it.
so I like either way - spoiler or no spoiler. thats what the entertainment is about. Posted by Power Boy on :
I like spoilers, hate surprises unless they're very very good. surprises are usually disappointing.
In general, I think no matter what the spoiler is that you know the journey getting there is the mark of a good writer.
I tend to like mysteries even if I know what's going to happen. If it's good, the big reveal at the end is only part of the story.
I think a spoiler or knowing what happens can help me want to read the book, or if the ending/spoiler is not to my liking i'm not going to invest the effort or time into reading 300-500 pages.
There are a few exceptions to my love of spoilers though ... where the ride is worth it. Mostly because I trusted the writers.
Those two exceptions are George RR Martin books ... after 11 or so, I know I'm going to like it, (the surprises) I don't need to test the waters by reading the spoiler or ending. and Joss Whedon's Astonishing X-Men when Colossus returns to life ... I gasped out loud. Y the Last Man is also gasp worthy as is Jack Knight's Star Man.
Funny story I flipped through Y the Last Man one time and thought I had seen a spoiler (a character dying) when in actuality the next issue the character was reveled to have survived. Now that's a gooood writer. haha
My grandpa and I both do the same thing, read the last page first, unrelated ... it must be genetic.
The last page often dosn't reveal much ... even whose alive but I find it a very good litmus test for the style of the book ... or a 'cheese' metric.
Posted by Jerry on :
I guess I would categorize myself as spoiler neutral. I'm not one to automatically flip to the last page first. Neither, am I one to freak out and get upset if I come across an internet spoiler or somebody tells me the ending before I get there.
I do find that I sometimes rush through a story, especially a comics story, if the big climax has been teased a lot. I rush though the story trying to get to reveal, and miss a lot of details along the way. In these situations, I typically go back to re-read the story at a slower pace after I know the ending. I find that I enjoy the second reading more.
The article mentions the "Who Shot JR" episode of Dallas. I recall that kind of being spoiled during the summer, by published reports that Mary Crosby would be leaving the show shortly after the beginning of the season. That made her the pretty obvious suspect. I still enjoyed finding out her motivation, and her performance in the episode that revealed she really was the shooter.
[ August 13, 2011, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: Jerry ]
Posted by dedman on :
Personally I don't like spoilers. Personally I like the personal satisfaction of figuring out the plot of a book/show/movie/video game before it ends. If I am spoiled on it, then I lose the fun of trying to decipher the ending before it happens. That being said I do also enjoy re-reading/watching something as well, so I can see how the creator crafted the complete tale and tied it all together.
Posted by profh0011 on :
"The last page often dosn't reveal much"
"BLAM!" "How COULD you?" "it was EASY."
...and...
"She was a double agent. YES, I said WAS. The bitch is DEAD now."
Posted by profh0011 on :
quote:Originally posted by dedman: Personally I don't like spoilers. Personally I like the personal satisfaction of figuring out the plot of a book/show/movie/video game before it ends. If I am spoiled on it, then I lose the fun of trying to decipher the ending before it happens. That being said I do also enjoy re-reading/watching something as well, so I can see how the creator crafted the complete tale and tied it all together.
I think that's exactly how I feel. I like having the chance to experience something NOT KNOWING in advance what's going to happen, whether I can figure it out or just go along for the ride and be surprised.
Then, on repeat viewings, you can see just how good (or not) a story is. If it REQUIRES "surprise" to be entertaining, I think something's wrong.
SOYLENT GREEN, apparently, was a "mystery" that was totally ruined as soon as people found out the ending. Worse, I get the feeling that movie, by its very existence, turned an important social problem into a trivia joke, to the point where nobody's wanted to deal with it head-on for decades since. (over-population)
Posted by profh0011 on :
Sorry. Really bad week.
Posted by Quislet, Esq on :
There are some books/movies are more affected by spoilers. Mysteries and books/movies that have a surprise twist ending.
There do seem to be some spoilers that have become wide spread. prof's example of Soylent Green. I would say the Crying Game and possibly the Sixth Sense fall into this widely known spoiler catagory. You don't even need to have seen these movies to know what the surprise ending is.
I remember a while ago I decided to read Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. To my surprise the whole story is about Dr. Jekyll's friends worried about this mysterious Mr. Hyde who seems to be controlling Jekyll. The surprise twist at the end of the story is that Click Here For A SpoilerHyde & Jekyll are the same person
Some books and movies need a second viewing/reading to see all the little things that you missed but become real interesting once you know the ending. And of course there are some books/movies that a person just likes the story and wants to experience it again.
Posted by Triplicate Kid on :
I do like to avoid spoilers, but with my habit of reading about far more works than I actually read, that's hard.
There's something more disappointing (or at least more often disappointing) about knowing too much in advance. When you hear of some great idea in a story, and then you read it and find that's the only good idea. That is, when "spoilers" lead you to believe the story is more creative than it is.
[ August 14, 2011, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: Triplicate Kid ]
Posted by Quislet, Esq on :
Not really about spoilers, but what can spoil a movie (mostly) or book for me is if it gets overhyped/overadvertized. You can't help but get your expectations up. Then the movie never lives up to your expectations.
For that reason, I try my best to avoid previews, first looks, news about any superhero movie.
Posted by Dev - Em on :
Here's a good one that I had avoided spoilers about...Fight Club. A friend of mine told me that I had to see it, so I ventured over to his house and watched it.
There's a twist at the end of the movie that I predicted about half way through the thing. I literally made him stop the movie and wrote it down, and left it on the table until the end of the thing and when he read what I had wrote he laughed hysterically...cause I was dead on with the twist.
There was a plot point that was a telegraph of the ending at a certain point (to me anyway) and I caught it and it that tipped me off in a huge way. I know not everyone figured it out, but in a lot of movies, there are clues that can 'spoil' an ending for you as well.
I do like to avoid spoilers when I can, but am not normally upset when I find out things about movies. Found out about Sixth Sense early, but still enjoyed the movie in looking for all the clues.
Posted by Shining Son on :
Someone gave an example of "someone dies next issue". I think that's an artistically reprehensible spoiler. It's often used as promotion for the issue, but it completely cheapens the character's death into a mere promotion, and sabotages any artistic merit it had in the story, not to mention the reader knowing a death is going to happen when the writer may not have intended the reader to have that foreknowledge.
BTW, so glad nobody included a list of famous spoilers in this thread. That's happened several times on other forums when the subject of spoilers came up. They totally ignore the fact that some people haven't seen certain classics yet and really don't need to know who or what Rosebud is before seeing Citizen Kane, or what the title "To Serve Man" means in the Twilight Zone. (Well profh0011 did a few, but at least I couldn't identify the movies of the ones I didn't already know.)
Some idiot newscaster spoiled Sixth Sense, and the movie wasn't even on cable yet, so I never got to have that "first" viewing where you gasp at the twist, or have the satisfaction of figuring it out yourself.
Posted by Quislet, Esq on :
Regarding comic book deaths. It used to be that the character wasn't dead if you didn't see the body. Now even if you see the body, the character can be brought back. Is there any character who has stayed dead? Barry Allen's back. Rita Farr is back. Mar-Vel is back. This bringing characters back to from the dead makes any character's "death" pretty ho-hum.
Posted by Dev - Em on :
Uncle Ben.
I think that about covers it.
Posted by Dev - Em on :
Adrian Chase (Vigilante) would be the only other one I can think of at this point.
Posted by dedman on :
Haha Dev, I did the thing you did with Fight Club, except I did it with the first Saw movie, about 10 minutes in.
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
Maybe because I'm hopeless at figuring out mysteries ahead of time, I don't mind the spoiler.
However, it's a lot easier to get spoilers with the internet, too easy if you don't like them.
I'm still a sucker for the preview pages from comic books, although it's a bad habit. They show you three pages out of a measly 20, there's that much less to read when I get the book. Previews aren't generally spoilers, but I find they do take something away from the reading - so I can understand why people don't like real spoilers.
Posted by profh0011 on :
"profh0011 did a few, but at least I couldn't identify the movies of the ones I didn't already know."
Well, that was the point of my writing them that way. So people who knew the films would get it, and those who didn't would understand without having those films blown for them.
The spoiler I said I made up myself, IF you knew which movie it was for, would CERTAINLY blow the ending for you.
By the way, does anyone know which 2 books I quoted?
Posted by Shining Son on :
Prof, from what you wrote, I think I might realize which films they apply to while I'm watching the film, so it's still better not to give examples of famous spoilers.
I keep getting tempted to show the list others have done, but I have to keep stopping myself because that would not only be illustrating the problem , but also repeating it.
Posted by Shining Son on :
Correction to my earlier post re: promotions that spoil a character's death--
I suppose the merit would still be there, so make that "sabotages any artistic or emotional impact the death would have in the story".
Posted by Shining Son on :
quote:Originally posted by Dev - Em: Uncle Ben.
I think that about covers it.
Then the Uncle Ben I read that they had a couple years back wasn't the genuine article?
Posted by Iam Legion on :
If a movie/book/comic plotline can not survive even a major spoiler and still be an enjoyable read/watch, then it wasn't very good to start with. All the twists and shocks in the world are nothing if you are not moved by the story. This is something that movie makers and comicbook writers seem to have largely forgotten. Mercifully, a lot of authors still "get it".
Posted by Dev - Em on :
quote:Originally posted by Shining Son:
quote:Originally posted by Dev - Em: Uncle Ben.
I think that about covers it.
Then the Uncle Ben I read that they had a couple years back wasn't the genuine article?
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