Basketball. I'm six foot four inches and I am supposed to act like I love basketball. Can't stand it to watch. Ten abnormally tall guys jumping up and down every thirty seconds...please.
End zone celebrations- No, I'm not the NFL. I just don't like watching some grown man making dumbass antics in the end zone when he cant spell end zone. I love watching my favorite team, the Panthers, but really couldn't give a rats patootie about any others.
Tiger Woods. No, not like that. I don't care who he's shaggin'. I really don't. I figure thats between his wife, him, and the fence post. I spend 10 to 12 hours a day in my truck. I listen to all kinds of things, but Colin Cowherd stretches my patience as it is. Listening to him drone on and on and on and on...I just wanna pour drano down his throat after about three minutes flat.
Squash- My folks made me eat it when I was six. Ever since, count me out. I don't even like the smell of it.
Mushrooms- I just cannot take the consistency of them. They aren't hard, but they crunch...what the hell's up with that?
Parties! I don't like'em. seriously. They are never as fun as tv or the movies make them out to be, someone invariably makes a pass at the wrong person, someone always gets drunk and pukes. I'd rather have a couple of friends over, enjoy a game on the radio and some grilled foods, and relax.
The latest hotchick anorexic/bulimic car wreck. They are almost always barely out of high school or college, skinnier than a toothpick, and reek of desperation.
I like women, one in particular. I don't like women that spout an agenda every time they open their mouths (Had a family member ask me if I found the Lord every time she met me. I finally told her "Yes, and it wasn't easy when he got lost!") or men that always talk in agenda terms, either.
Beer. Never tasted a good one. I like wine just fine. Love me some tequila and vodka and just plain old whiskey. But every time I drink beer, doesn't matter what brand, it tastes like how a men's urinal smells at a ball game. I do like Port or Ale, though.
The Designated Hitter Rule- Usually some over the hill, fat, no longer athletic guy that couldn't play a position if you stuck a gun to his head. National league, everyone hits unless there's a pitching change. American league, here comes Bubba...
Posted by cleome on :
The Democratic Party - In this neck of the woods, you might just as well paste a target between your eyes if you show up at a liberal love-fest blog and explain that it's possible to be something other than EITHER a Democrat OR a Right-winger.
My List of Issues That I Do Not Discuss With Anyone Who I Still Want To Like Next Week expands tenfold every month since President Hope's ascension to power. Not that it was doing badly before.
Tom Waits - It's tough being a card-carrying art fart and being unable to stomach Waits. Actually, I enjoy some of his songs-- so long as SOMEBODY ELSE is doing the actual singing of them. Oh, and I liked him in Mystery Men.
Supernatural - It's hugely popular on some of the fan boards I frequent. Apparently, women from 10 to 60 treat it like cats treat catnip. Tried watching it and was instantly bored. Ignoring how guy-centric it is, there's also the fact that I'm supposed to be drooling over the leads and I just don't. I don't care how tragic your life's supposed to be, Jared. You guys always look like you just got done shooting an underwear ad and only bothered to put clothes on because it got cold outside. (Uh, I've known people who've had to live out of their cars or out of cheap motels. Cars and cheap motels don't have gyms and diner food will swiftly destroy your metabolism.) I just can't take you seriously. Also, I hate gas guzzlers (even the vintage ones) and butt rock.
Now, if you gave me John Turturo and William H. Macy, driving across the country in a 1978 Honda Civic fighting demons while arguing over whether Steve Lacy or Anthony Braxton plays better in the tape deck--- THAT, I would probably watch with gusto.
Pro Figure Skating - It was awesome when I was a little girl. Now it just makes me snore. The same garish outfits, the same designated twelve approved skating melodies, the same idiot judges. Feh. I'd rather wait for nice weather and go watch baseball. At least then I can get fresh air and sunshine.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Christmas songs...They are good for one particular time of the year, and they always seem like something that's done either by mid level talent, or tossed off without a care by top level. I've rarely heard a piece of christmas music that I wanted to hear the full version of once, much less hear it over and over again. Hell, I'd shoot grandma, them damn reindeer, santa, his elves, grandpa and pretty much the whole damn town if it meant i never had to hear that song again.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
The Simpsons - I hate this show, and I think I'm specifically the group that is supposed to love it. I reiterate--I don't dislike it, I actually hate it. Everything about it.
Madonna - not only is she annoying, her music sucks 90% of the time too.
Toby Keith - I might not be alone so this might not fit this category. But Toby Keith seems like a poser who is all talk. I think if I could pick anyone in the US to have a bar-fight with, it'd be him. Besides Sean Hannity, another wimpy wannabe.
"American Graffiti" (the movie) - George, lets just say its a good thing you did Star Wars. Because I wasn't alive when this came out and it hasn't held up well over time. It reminds me more of the 70's than the era its supposed to be in.
Vacations in Mexico - I know, I know, it almost guaranties I'm an awful human being to say it out loud, but going to Mexico is just...unpleasant.
Texas Hold 'Em Poker - everyone and their brother thinks they're a Vegas poker player these days and all they know how to play is hold 'em. There's other ways to play poker and most of them are better, involve more bluffing and are more complex. I hate it because its trendy.
Anti-smoking adds - This is another one everyone might hate but I had to say it. These adds are so annoying that I basically am now pro-smoking. I might start supporting tobacco companies. Keep a close eye on this Environmentalists--you go to far and I start supporting big oil. Out of spite.
Seperatists in the US - grow up already.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
I'm a country boy (yeah, big surprise there, right...) and as such, I'm supposed to like Collards. Well, I don't. I hate the damn things. I have ever since elementary school when it smelled like the cooks took a dump in the pot, colored it green and served it up to us. Just had the first frost of the year where I live, which is when the collards are ready. Don't ask me why, the frost just does something to them.
I still freakin hate the dang thangs. Mustard and deep pan cornbread with some texas pete or hot peppers and a glass or two of tea and I'm a happy man, but Collards just might get you kicked outta my house.
Posted by Set on :
The Dark Knight, which I'm apparently supposed to love. I do not get the fan-love for this movie, which, IMO, was tedious, even more so than the much-maligned Superman Returns. I liked Christian Bale's performances in Equilibrium, American Psycho and, especially, The Prestige, but he's deadly dull as Bruce Wayne. Keaton was many times better (although the less said about Kilmer and Clooney, the better).
And Heath Ledger's Joker was terribly overrated (again, an actor I liked in a Knight's Tale, completely failing to deliver the goods, although I suspect the writing gave him nothing to work with). It's like they forgot that the Joker isn't just creepy and crazy, but also *funny.* Even if nobody else is laughing, *he's* supposed to be having fun, not trudging around acting oh-so-terribly-serious...
DC has yet to put out a good superhero movie, IMO. They need to take a look at Spiderman, Iron Man and, to a lesser extent, the first couple of X-Men movies and take notes. A decent superhero movie can be made, although it isn't easy (as miss-steps like the Fantastic Four and Hulk movies suggest). DC keeps trying to ride off of the popularity of the characters, and failing to deliver a decent storyline with a compelling characterization. Superman and Batman come across as emotionless zombots, and their villains are devoid of personality, 'character' or life, resulting in there being no identifiable *people* anywhere within their movies.
The only 'good' things in the last two Batman movies have been Morgan Freeman and Michael Caine's performances as Lucius and Alfred.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I too was underwhelmed by the Dark Knight. I certainly wouldn't say I hated it, but I'm kind of surprised at the gushing it seems to get.
Even Batman Begins, which I really liked when it came out, doesn't seem to hold up as well now.
Posted by Sketch Lad on :
Sports- I'd rather draw pictures of comic book characters than watch the big game. I always have to opt out of those discussions.
Cars - I just want it to be reliable, look pretty good and get me from A to B to C, etc. I don't know the latest about any of the latest. I drive an '07 Jetta and an '01 Dodge Caravan. Got good deals on them, but I didn't spend months researching.
I don't like political discussions because I've seen too many nice people end up in heated arguments. So many people like to discuss politics.
Those are some pretty major topics I have to avoid at parties. I often find it interesting to listen to others who are passionate about those topics, if they don't drone on and on....
Posted by Triplicate Kid on :
quote:The latest hotchick anorexic/bulimic car wreck. They are almost always barely out of high school or college, skinnier than a toothpick, and reek of desperation.
This hits two of my big annoyances:
- Being supposed to favor thin girls.
- Designated attractive people. I don't want to be told who's the pretty girl and who isn't.
quote:The Dark Knight, which I'm apparently supposed to love. I do not get the fan-love for this movie, which, IMO, was tedious, even more so than the much-maligned Superman Returns. I liked Christian Bale's performances in Equilibrium, American Psycho and, especially, The Prestige, but he's deadly dull as Bruce Wayne. Keaton was many times better (although the less said about Kilmer and Clooney, the better).
And Heath Ledger's Joker was terribly overrated (again, an actor I liked in a Knight's Tale, completely failing to deliver the goods, although I suspect the writing gave him nothing to work with). It's like they forgot that the Joker isn't just creepy and crazy, but also *funny.* Even if nobody else is laughing, *he's* supposed to be having fun, not trudging around acting oh-so-terribly-serious...
I can't see why Batman Begins was so well-liked. It gave me a distinct feeling of trying too hard, presenting a "more believable" Batman movie that really wasn't. And I don't get why Christian Bale's so popular. The Dark Knight was better. Not as good as most people say it is, but enough that I would look forward to the third movie with the prospect of it being genuinely good. Except we know the curse of #3's...
quote:Sports- I'd rather draw pictures of comic book characters than watch the big game. I always have to opt out of those discussions.
Pretty similar here, plus I'm bothered by the tribal sort of provincialism sports fans have.
quote:Cars - I just want it to be reliable, look pretty good and get me from A to B to C, etc. I don't know the latest about any of the latest. I drive an '07 Jetta and an '01 Dodge Caravan. Got good deals on them, but I didn't spend months researching.
And I don't drive, and don't get car culture at all. All I can think when I stand by a highway is the statistic that, what is it, 93% of the cars have only one person in them? I'm bothered by how much people want new cars, and by how most cars on the street are less than 20 years old. Machines should last.
And a couple that haven't been mentioned:
Sweets. Even as a kid, even with my weak sense of taste, I never favored sweet things.
50s retro / Americana. An era of conservatism, trying-too-hard industrial design, and unshakable faith in car culture (see above), white-picket-fence suburbia, and atomic energy.
[ December 22, 2009, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Triplicate Kid ]
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by Triplicate Kid: Sweets. Even as a kid, even with my weak sense of taste, I never favored sweet things.
Baked sweets, for me. I love ice cream, dark semi-sweet chocolate, cheesecake, custard, egg nog, etc. are awesome, but cookies, cakes and brownies are nasty, IMO.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
By and large, comic book fans.
With the exception of the people here and several others that I know, I find them to be a near-useless pack of emotional infants with grotesque entitlement issues. If the industry collapses tomorrow, they will merit much of the blame, not that they are in the habit of taking responsibility for anything.
Do not get me started on sports fanatics.
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
quote:Originally posted by rickshaw1: Basketball. I'm six foot four inches and I am supposed to act like I love basketball. Can't stand it to watch. Ten abnormally tall guys jumping up and down every thirty seconds...please.
Parties! I don't like'em. seriously. They are never as fun as tv or the movies make them out to be, someone invariably makes a pass at the wrong person, someone always gets drunk and pukes. I'd rather have a couple of friends over, enjoy a game on the radio and some grilled foods, and relax.
Beer. Never tasted a good one. I like wine just fine. Love me some tequila and vodka and just plain old whiskey. But every time I drink beer, doesn't matter what brand, it tastes like how a men's urinal smells at a ball game. I do like Port or Ale, though.
I cannot believe how many things we agree on!
Give me brandy or vodka any day, just not beer.
I never had any interest in basketball, other than as a way of bonding with the guys. But screw that, I'd rather go rock climbing.
I don't really see the point of going to bars with friends, unless you want to pick someone up. It's too loud to be able to have good conversation! You go there to drink and dance, but not to learn about your friends.
Or maybe I hate it because I always end up taking care of people who puke all over the floor.
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
Let's add:
Strippers.
Not because I'm asexual, oh no. But I find subtle teasing much sexier than women ripping their clothes off (and getting paid for it). A lot of appeal is in the chase, and knowing the pair of you find each other attractive!
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
Related to the OM's post: amateur comic book creators.
Talk about sense of entitlement! Some have spent their lives reading nothing but Marvel and DC comics, so their creations are nothing more than recycled, second-rate super-heroes. Some have no sense of commitment or responsibility: they promise they'll draw your story then fail to deliver. They say they'll come to meetings, then stop showing up. They expect everyone to share their passion for their own projects while showing zero interest in anyone else's efforts. And somehow they expect to be "discovered" by the very pros whose work they rail against yet continue to buy.
Posted by Stealth on :
Faux-indie-rock girl-power anthems.
I HATE, HATE, HATE Kelly "Smelly" Clarkson's "Since U Been Gone" and all the clones of that song I've been subjected to over the years, including and especially the clones from Smelly* herself.
And then there's that idiot, I forget her name, who sings that awful song "According To You" and bases her whole career on the supposed novelty of a girl being able to shred on the guitar.
* I swear, she looks like she never bathes.
Posted by cleome on :
[snip]
Cobalt Kid wrote:
quote:...Separatists in the US - grow up already.
But you love Cascadia's Flag. Don't lie. Who wouldn't want a flag nicknamed "Doug"?
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
All alcohol.
It all tastes and smells like paint thinner to me.
Posted by Stealth on :
I don't want anyone to miss this:
quote:Originally posted by Stealth: Faux-indie-rock girl-power anthems.
I HATE, HATE, HATE Kelly "Smelly" Clarkson's "Since U Been Gone" and all the clones of that song I've been subjected to over the years, including and especially the clones from Smelly* herself.
And then there's that idiot, I forget her name, who sings that awful song "According To You" and bases her whole career on the supposed novelty of a girl being able to shred on the guitar.
* I swear, she looks like she never bathes.
Posted by cleome on :
I never got the whole White Castle mystique. To me it just tastes like standard-issue fast food, but in a smaller, cuter package.
Posted by dedman on :
We don't have White Castle in Canada (at least in parts I've been too) Tried it on a cruise through the states last September...nasty and greasy. Never again!
PS3/Wii/XBox360...don't get me wrong, I love the systems themselves, its the raging fanboys who proclaim to thier dying breath that one is superior to the other. Get over it all have advantages and disadvantages.
The "Dirty Oil" propagnda machine. I'm not even going to get into this, lest it turns into a three page rant, but I will say that Alberta's oil mining is no "dirtier" that any other form of mining, and thanks to SAG-D technology is in many cases much cleaner.
Posted by Rockhopper Lad on :
Tattoos. No offense to anyone who has them, but I've just never understood the appeal of having ink injected in one's skin.
Posted by dedman on :
despite having tattoos, I'm kinda with ya on this one Rocky... what gets me is the random tribal/chinese/cartoon character tattoos, that essentially mean nothing to the person they are on, that, even worse, were choosen from a tattoo book, so a couple of hundred other people have the same one. yeah, 1 up for originality folks.
Posted by cleome on :
[snip]
quote:Originally posted by Set: ...And Heath Ledger's Joker was terribly overrated (again, an actor I liked in a Knight's Tale, completely failing to deliver the goods, although I suspect the writing gave him nothing to work with). It's like they forgot that the Joker isn't just creepy and crazy, but also *funny.* Even if nobody else is laughing, *he's* supposed to be having fun, not trudging around acting oh-so-terribly-serious...
The only 'good' things in the last two Batman movies have been Morgan Freeman and Michael Caine's performances as Lucius and Alfred.
So much agreement here, though I found the first much more watchable than the second. At least I made it all the way through the first one without leaving in disgust with forty or so minutes left to go. Posted by Dev Em on :
The television show...The Office.
I just cannot get into it at all. Tried several times. Not happening.
Posted by Exnihil on :
"The Shawshank Redemption". I can't count the number of times I've had conversations about "great" movies when this title has come up.
Really, guys? In the same breath as "The Godfather" and "Raging Bull," folks would actually put a film as ham-fistedly schmaltzy as "Shawshank." It doesn't work for me as drama, as a buddy-pic, or as an affirmation of the human spirit. Though it attempts to be each of those, the approach is just so over the top on each front. I feel as though this film is trying too hard to be my friend.
C'mon... surely I'm being too hard on imdb's #1 ranked film. Well, just to be fair, I tried to think about it in terms of a very specific sub-genre and I was astounded to find that I couldn't even place it into the top ten of my favorite Click Here For A Spoilerprison escape films!
[ March 16, 2010, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: Exnihil ]
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
Hamburgers and hotdogs. Don't like 'em, don't like the taste.
Posted by cleome on :
The Decemberists. Local band makes good worldwide plays for the President yadda yadda yadda.
I just think there are several other bands who pull off their particular shtick much better than they do. And the constant local hype about them is annoying, as if there's no other musicians in town capable of doing interesting things. Ppphht.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Oprah. If I saw Oprah being beaten up by a gang in the street, I'd run over...and get a few kicks in.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
here damn here
Posted by Dev Em on :
I'd push people out of the way for ya Cobie.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
quote:Originally posted by cleome: The Decemberists. Local band makes good worldwide plays for the President yadda yadda yadda.
I just think there are several other bands who pull off their particular shtick much better than they do. And the constant local hype about them is annoying, as if there's no other musicians in town capable of doing interesting things. Ppphht.
Even though I happen to think Hazards of Love was one of the top two or three albums of last year, their music always seems to be missing something. I think it's the lack of woodwinds.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Lamb. I'm Irish so I'm supposed to love it. But its actually one of the three foods I actually hate. I find it repulsive...the smell alone almost makes me vomit.
I personally thing its part of Irish cuisine because no one could afford anything else for so long. I think its time to shed ourselves of its horrific legacy.
Posted by cleome on :
Cobie, I feel the same way about Gefilte fish and chopped liver. Just substitute "Jewish" for "Irish." Posted by Sketch Lad on :
I find myself wanting to defend many of the things people have said they hate, here. But then I remembered that this is the "hate" thread. So... nevermind!
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Dean, Lamb is indefensible
But yeah, I did too when I reread this thread, particularly beer and the Dark Knight movie but I figured I'd let everyone 'hate' a little bit. Sports are another thing I could defened, pointing out its 'sports fans' and specific athletes and professional sports people probably hate but I kind of prefer the hating going on right now Posted by Stealth on :
quote:Originally posted by Sketch Lad: I find myself wanting to defend many of the things people have said they hate, here. But then I remembered that this is the "hate" thread. So... nevermind!
Wait! Wait!
This is the perfect time to start a "In Defense Of..." thread.
Posted by cleome on :
Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Uh, I can't buy it as feminism when the combined weight of all the female leads is still one-third my total weight. If you want eye-candy with only so-so actors running around staking pretty-pretty vampires while spouting po-mo "urban patois" and listening to generally uninspiring "alternative" power-ballads, be my guest. But stop trying to sell it to me as high-toned nourishment when it's just BBQ pork rinds with an "organic" label slapped on. Please. Just. Stop.
Also, the "style" of dialogue makes me want to puncture and napalm my eardrums after ten minutes of being subjected to it.
Additional lost points for the annoying habit my friends have of sighing and calling him "Joss" in a tone so fawning that even the unkindest caricature of an early period Trekkie would feel embarrassed for them.
Super-double bonus extra points for supposed oppressed persecuted nerds and geeks who all look like the Hollywood Pretties they are and wear super-expensive clothing while claiming to be hard up for money.
"Whedies," just throw yourselves a convention and be done with it.
[ March 19, 2010, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: cleome ]
Posted by Stealth on :
OMG, Cleome, that was brilliant!
More, more, more!
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Agreed! Love it! Especially the part about calling him "Joss".
Posted by cleome on :
[bows]
I trace the beginning of the end of a cherished friendship back to the moment when I COULD NOT get said friend to shut up about that damn show! Or else when she first got me to watch it with her, and when it was over I said, "Yeah? And...?"
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
It's been years since I watched Buffy, but I remember enjoying it. I think it exceeded my expectations because it wasn't simply a cheesecake show (though this is Hollywood, so it's understandable that Sarah Michelle Gellar looked like she did). But the show was fun to watch because it tapped into the feelings that a lot of teenagers have: that is, the adult world doesn't understand them and they are basically on their own in solving their problems/figuring life out.
Feminine empowerment? I never saw the show in those terms. To me, it was about a group of friends who tried to use their talents to accomplish some good in the world . . . like the Legion, sort of.
Posted by cleome on :
Well, y'know... The female characters are a big part of why I like the Legion, but there's a difference between saying that and proclaiming that it's feminist. Because, frankly, it's not. And if people started trying to pitch the book as such, I'd probably be annoyed, for the same reason I get annoyed at academics and wannabees carrying on about Buffy as a feminist icon and Joss Whedon as some grand-hearted noble he-feminist or whatever.
Trouble is: when you have a super-ultra narrow range of "acceptable" looks for your female characters and they just happen to conform with the criteria of how female protagonists look everywhere else, you're not really selling feminism-- at least, you're not selling the version I understand. Which would be:
Women, you deserve to lead a life in which you have power to determine your own destiny. What comes from Buffy and even some well-written superhero comics with decent art is:
Women, you deserve to lead a life in which you have power to determine your own destiny so long as you have a look that only about 5% of all women in this world can ever hope to have.
No, sorry. Everyone loves their trash and eye candy, me included. But I have little patience for people trying to gussy it up as if it were an elevating experience that gives an umambiguously positive message. Because it isn't, and it doesn't.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
quote:Originally posted by cleome: Well, y'know... The female characters are a big part of why I like the Legion, but there's a difference between saying that and proclaiming that it's feminist. Because, frankly, it's not.
Agreed.
Though "feminism" probably needs to be defined, and it needs to be understood that the early Legion creators may have had very different ideas of what equality meant. For example, Saturn Girl was definitely the Legion's leader for two years. On the other hand, some adventures were considered "too dangerous for a girl," including her. So, how does one reconcile these two apparently contradictory ideas? Perhaps it's best to acknowledge that our understanding of equality has grown in fits and starts like everything else.
quote:Trouble is: when you have a super-ultra narrow range of "acceptable" looks for your female characters and they just happen to conform with the criteria of how female protagonists look everywhere else, you're not really selling feminism-- at least, you're not selling the version I understand. Which would be:
Women, you deserve to lead a life in which you have power to determine your own destiny. What comes from Buffy and even some well-written superhero comics with decent art is:
Women, you deserve to lead a life in which you have power to determine your own destiny so long as you have a look that only about 5% of all women in this world can ever hope to have.
Again, agreed.
In the early '90s, Valiant Comics published a comic called Harbinger, which featured an overweight superheroine called Zephyr ("Zeppelin" to her less charitable teammates). I thought of this as a step in the right direction; it's a shame that Valiant imploded after Jim Shooter left.
However, it also strikes me that men are stereotyped in popular culture as much as women are, yet men never seem to complain about how male characters are depicted. In Buffy, there were two main male protagonists: Xander and Giles. Both were geeky and unpowered, compared to the female characters (Buffy the slayer, Willow the witch, etc.).
(Well, there was also Angel, but he's a stereotype of another sort: handsome and beefy with a dark side.)
I can't imagine men complaining about such characters. As a man, I sort of identified with each one in a different way. They allowed me to live vicariously through three different characters (again, a lot like the Legion).
quote:No, sorry. Everyone loves their trash and eye candy, me included. But I have little patience for people trying to gussy it up as if it were an elevating experience that gives an umambiguously positive message. Because it isn't, and it doesn't.
Sure, everyone sees in a show what they want to see. To some, Buffy is a positive message; to others, it's negative. And to others still, it's simply entertainment.
Posted by cleome on :
[snip]
He Who Wanders:
quote:...However, it also strikes me that men are stereotyped in popular culture as much as women are, yet men never seem to complain about how male characters are depicted. In Buffy, there were two main male protagonists: Xander and Giles. Both were geeky and unpowered, compared to the female characters (Buffy the slayer, Willow the witch, etc.)...
I will never be able to agree with this. It's a trope in of itself that "average" or even "ugly" men of all types in various pop cultures are paired with traditionally beautiful women. Men in general have a much wider range of appearances that permit them to be, if not "beautiful," than certainly fully-dimensional beings who others find desirable. Granted, there's perhaps less latitude there than there once was in Hollywood, but the divide is still noticeable.
The classic example in comics would be Peter Parker. He's not supposed to be drawn like Steve Rogers, though he's also not supposed to be drawn like The Toad, of course. But it's part of the character's history that beautiful, desirable females have always been interested in him. I can't honestly think of a single female in a heroic role who diverges from the gender "ideal" even to the mild degree that Peter Parker does. The closest you'll get is a female like Jennifer Walters/She-Hulk or [blecch] "Looker" from the original Outsiders. In male characters, a "homely" appearance is just part of what the hero is. In female characters, a "homely" appearance is a disease that has to be "cured" before a woman can truly be heroic.
quote:...Sure, everyone sees in a show what they want to see. To some, Buffy is a positive message; to others, it's negative. And to others still, it's simply entertainment.
And, yeah, I obviously agree that everyone's entitled to their escapism, whatever it is. I just can't deal with the worship that follows this particular program and its creator all over the place-- at least amongst many, many fans I know.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
quote:Originally posted by cleome: I will never be able to agree with this. It's a trope in of itself that "average" or even "ugly" men of all types in various pop cultures are paired with traditionally beautiful women. Men in general have a much wider range of appearances that permit them to be, if not "beautiful," than certainly fully-dimensional beings who others find desirable. Granted, there's perhaps less latitude there than there once was in Hollywood, but the divide is still noticeable.
I hadn't thought of it this way. But then I hadn't thought of Peter Parker as being an "average" or "unattractive" man. During the Ditko era, he was certainly depicted as being weaker and bespectacled, but by the '70s (when I encountered him), he no longer wore glasses and was protrayed as no different than any other run-of-the-mill male hero.
You could be right about male heroes being portrayed as having wider range of acceptable physical features than females. However, even when an older male is featured in a movie (e.g., Michael Douglas) and paired with a younger woman, he's usually someone who was already considered attractive to begin with.
Returning to Buffy, I'm still struck by the idea that it was the women who had the powers in the show and not the men. The show may fall far short of making a feminist statement, but I think it was quite revolutionary in its own way.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
A few other thoughts have occurred to me in the light of day:
1. It's unfair to categorize Buffy as a feminist show or even a failed feminist show. I don't think it was ever intended as such. (I have not read an interview with Joss Whedon, so I could be wrong.) Just because the protagonist is an attractive high school girl does not mean that the show was meant to make a statement about women in general.
2. Of course, since TV is a mass market media, people are going to read into the show a statement about something. Had Buffy been a boy, fans might have complained that the show did not depict a powerful woman. When fans lionize the show for being pro-feminist, I think it says more about the fans and their expectations than it does about the show itself.
3. If one is looking for more realistic role models, one won't find them on mainstream TV or in Marvel and DC, for that matter. The gatekeepers are interested in peddling fantasy, not reality. (Returning to my point about Giles and Xander, notice how they were still "traditionally" attractive even though they were geeks. A more "realistic" depiction might have a balding Giles and a zit-faced Xander.)
4. People do tend to read into the show what they see from their own experiences. One of my favorite sitcoms of all time is M*A*S*H because of its anti-war message among other reasons. Yet I knew a woman from Korea who disliked the show because of its depiction of Koreans. Watching the show now, I see her point: Koreans are often portrayed as stereotypes. (But, to be fair, the show also stereotyped Army officers, surgeons, enlisted men, and everyone else.)
5. No show is perfect. A fair assessment comes from watching what is there and weighing the good against the bad, not from reacting to other fans' reactions of the show.
Posted by cleome on :
[snip]
quote:Originally posted by He Who Wanders: [QUOTE]Originally posted by cleome: [qb] ...I hadn't thought of Peter Parker as being an "average" or "unattractive" man. During the Ditko era, he was certainly depicted as being weaker and bespectacled, but by the '70s (when I encountered him), he no longer wore glasses and was protrayed as no different than any other run-of-the-mill male hero.
In the 1970s, I remember an interview with Stan Lee in which he said that often artists had to be reminded to make Parker look "normal. Not like a movie star." IOW, not like the Western ideal of masculinity.
quote:You could be right about male heroes being portrayed as having wider range of acceptable physical features than females. However, even when an older male is featured in a movie (e.g., Michael Douglas) and paired with a younger woman, he's usually someone who was already considered attractive to begin with.
If by "attractive," you mean, "conventionally handsome" then I disagree with this entirely. There's simply a much wider variance of age, figures, and types of features allowed in entertainment for men than for women who are to be considered protagonists and "attractive" to viewers, readers and advertisers. Period. George Clooney is a star who has long been paired with beautiful younger women in his movies. So is Bill Murray. If you could find me two well-known Hollywood actresses who not only land the variety of roles that both these actors do and also differ from one another as much in appearance as do Clooney and Murray, I'd be impressed.
quote:Returning to Buffy, I'm still struck by the idea that it was the women who had the powers in the show and not the men. The show may fall far short of making a feminist statement, but I think it was quite revolutionary in its own way.
The real message isn't that "women have power," though. The real message is that very young, very beautiful, very thin women have power. All others are invisible. Unfortunately that makes the idea of "empowerment" for women much more ambiguous than it could be.
Posted by cleome on :
[snip]
quote:Originally posted by He Who Wanders: A few other thoughts have occurred to me in the light of day:
1. It's unfair to categorize Buffy as a feminist show or even a failed feminist show. I don't think it was ever intended as such. (I have not read an interview with Joss Whedon, so I could be wrong.) Just because the protagonist is an attractive high school girl does not mean that the show was meant to make a statement about women in general.
I recommend reading some interviews with Whedon then. He's more than happy to take metaphoric trophies for the way he casts and writes women. It was rare for me to find a single feminist when I still frequented such blogs that didn't practically drool every time the man opened his mouth or when Buffy was mentioned. It might very well be one of the things that soured me on so many of these blogs over time, or part of why I don't bother calling myself a feminist anymore. Pop entertainment can be a wonderful thing, but consuming pop entertainment doesn't really have anything to do with the nuts and bolts of feminism or any other political movement, as far as I'm concerned.
quote:2. ...When fans lionize the show for being pro-feminist, I think it says more about the fans and their expectations than it does about the show itself.
See my comment above. I understand why female viewers are so happy to have even this skin-deep form of "empowerment," but that's really all it is. Almost literally. The requirements of the market almost invariably undercut the supposed message. Much like Supergirl and Power Girl kicking ass while displaying most of their epidermis and looking more or less like the same individual with only minor variations. The fashion for female ass-kicking in entertainment comes and goes, but the skin displays are eternal.
quote:3. If one is looking for more realistic role models, one won't find them on mainstream TV or in Marvel and DC, for that matter. The gatekeepers are interested in peddling fantasy, not reality. (Returning to my point about Giles and Xander, notice how they were still "traditionally" attractive even though they were geeks. A more "realistic" depiction might have a balding Giles and a zit-faced Xander.)
But even in fantasy, it's noticeable when the the presentations are dissimilar according to which gender is being portrayed. Even Giles and Xander have more diversity between them in age and physical characteristics than do Buffy and Willow. The "beauty" standard just plain isn't as rigid for males as it is for females. Period.
quote:4. People do tend to read into the show what they see from their own experiences...
But that's not a one-way street. The presentation is not, is never, a neutral thing. It's presented by marketers with an eye towards shaping the consumer's reaction. The consumer doesn't create and thus doesn't have the true power. The consumer reacts and may try to adapt to or read in something that the marketers didn't intend, but it's still reaction. It's still a lesser power.
quote:One of my favorite sitcoms of all time is M*A*S*H because of its anti-war message among other reasons. Yet I knew a woman from Korea who disliked the show because of its depiction of Koreans. Watching the show now, I see her point: Koreans are often portrayed as stereotypes. (But, to be fair, the show also stereotyped Army officers, surgeons, enlisted men, and everyone else.)
The main difference between the stereotyping of Koreans and those of the (mostly) White cast members on M*A*S*H is this: How many other Koreans or even Asians in general were stars of ongoing TV shows forty years ago? How many now, for that matter? Individual portrayals are important but they don't exist in a vacuum. To understand what they really mean, you have to look at them in a larger context.
I'm probably one of the biggest M*A*S*H fans there is, but that doesn't mean the show is, or was ever, flawless.
quote:5. No show is perfect. A fair assessment comes from watching what is there and weighing the good against the bad, not from reacting to other fans' reactions of the show.
As I said, you really ought to read what Whedon's actually said about his own show then. Personally, I understand completely why people are crazy about it. I still dislike it and find it to be monumentally overrated. The mixed messages inherent in this kind of presentation of "empowerment" just don't work for me. They frustrate me instead, and nobody goes in for escapism in order to feel frustrated.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
quote:Originally posted by cleome: If by "attractive," you mean, "conventionally handsome" then I disagree with this entirely. There's simply a much wider variance of age, figures, and types of features allowed in entertainment for men than for women who are to be considered protagonists and "attractive" to viewers, readers and advertisers. Period. George Clooney is a star who has long been paired with beautiful younger women in his movies. So is Bill Murray. If you could find me two well-known Hollywood actresses who not only land the variety of roles that both these actors do and also differ from one another as much in appearance as do Clooney and Murray, I'd be impressed.
I thought George Clooney was considered "conventionally handsome" (to use your term). He's certainly been cast in rugged, leading man-type roles.
Perhaps the source of our disagreement is that we're using such vague terms as "conventionally handsome" or "attractive." Hollywood certainly has its standards for what it thinks appeals to the public. But, even then, trying to say whether a particular actor or actress fits into those standards is like trying to catch air in a bottle.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Deep intellectual discussions.
Posted by cleome on :
quote:Originally posted by He Who Wanders: [snip]
I thought George Clooney was considered "conventionally handsome" (to use your term). He's certainly been cast in rugged, leading man-type roles.
Uh, yeah. He is. That's kind of the point. Whereas Murray is not. But there's no female counterpart of Bill Murray in Hollywood that I've ever heard of.
quote:Perhaps the source of our disagreement is that we're using such vague terms as "conventionally handsome" or "attractive." Hollywood certainly has its standards for what it thinks appeals to the public. But, even then, trying to say whether a particular actor or actress fits into those standards is like trying to catch air in a bottle.
It's not hard for me at all. Then again, I'm an artist. A failed one, but still an artist.
Posted by cleome on :
quote:Originally posted by rickshaw1: Deep intellectual discussions.
Doesn't this belong in the thread called "Things I've Always Hated And Never Made Any Secret Of Hating"?
And I'm not deep or intellectual. Just overeducated, underemployed, and chronically grumpy. I can link you to the real 'net intellectuals in exchange for ten bucks and a pint of good bourbon, though. Posted by cleome on :
Oh, and speaking of booze (because it always comes back to booze, even at 11:30 in the morning):
Single-malt scotch is disgusting. It all tastes like dish soap. Very, very expensive, prestigious dish soap. Posted by He Who Wanders on :
quote:Originally posted by cleome: Pop entertainment can be a wonderful thing, but consuming pop entertainment doesn't really have anything to do with the nuts and bolts of feminism or any other political movement, as far as I'm concerned.
Agreed. Absolutely. 100 percent.
Which also means that anything Whedon takes credit for regarding feminism is suspect.
quote: I understand why female viewers are so happy to have even this skin-deep form of "empowerment," but that's really all it is. Almost literally. The requirements of the market almost invariably undercut the supposed message. Much like Supergirl and Power Girl kicking ass while displaying most of their epidermis and looking more or less like the same individual with only minor variations. The fashion for female ass-kicking in entertainment comes and goes, but the skin displays are eternal.
If some women (and men, for that matter) look to a TV show for empowerment, they need to get a life.
Perhaps I'm just getting cynical in my old age, but I don't see comics or TV shows as having any significant message beyond "Watch me for an hour so I can get you through the commercials." Granted, some shows do try to impart a message but often the message is superficial, simplistic, or heavy-handed. M*A*S*H, for example, made a strong anti-war point, but in doing so, it characterized officers as inept, surgeons as clever, and Koreans as simple country folk. This is not reality--or, rather, it's a very simplified form of reality.
Viewers must know going into a show that they are getting someone else's view of the world, not the world itself. Knowing this means we should not look to shows for empowerment.
quote:But even in fantasy, it's noticeable when the the presentations are dissimilar according to which gender is being portrayed. Even Giles and Xander have more diversity between them in age and physical characteristics than do Buffy and Willow. The "beauty" standard just plain isn't as rigid for males as it is for females. Period.
Funny . . . I was thinking just the opposite about Xander/Giles and Buffy/Willow. Perhaps I was focusing more on their personalities than on their physical appearances. Willow is a very different character than Buffy and adds a much different dynamic to the team than the latter does. Willow is the "shy" and "sweet" one (to use admittedly stereotyped terms) who serves as a foil for Buffy's more outgoing personality.
The same distinction might also be true of Xander and Giles, but, as you note, their age differences set them apart. Because Willow and Buffy were closer in age, they had to have more sharply defined personalities, and I think they did.
quote:
quote:4. People do tend to read into the show what they see from their own experiences...[/qb]
But that's not a one-way street. The presentation is not, is never, a neutral thing. It's presented by marketers with an eye towards shaping the consumer's reaction. The consumer doesn't create and thus doesn't have the true power. The consumer reacts and may try to adapt to or read in something that the marketers didn't intend, but it's still reaction. It's still a lesser power.[/QB]
Consumers also have a different power: We can turn off the TV set or turn the channel and watch something else.
Portraying consumers as powerless entities that can only soak up what the marketing gods deign to give us is an image with which I cannot agree.
quote:
quote:One of my favorite sitcoms of all time is M*A*S*H because of its anti-war message among other reasons. Yet I knew a woman from Korea who disliked the show because of its depiction of Koreans. Watching the show now, I see her point: Koreans are often portrayed as stereotypes. (But, to be fair, the show also stereotyped Army officers, surgeons, enlisted men, and everyone else.) [/qb]
The main difference between the stereotyping of Koreans and those of the (mostly) White cast members on M*A*S*H is this: How many other Koreans or even Asians in general were stars of ongoing TV shows forty years ago? How many now, for that matter? Individual portrayals are important but they don't exist in a vacuum. To understand what they really mean, you have to look at them in a larger context.[/QB]
True, and, as I said, I now see my friend's point.
But there are many different "contexts" to look at. The reality of TV shows is that M*A*S*H had half an hour to sell its idea that war is bad and it did so by casting all of its characters in the broadest terms possible, as most TV shows do.
quote:I'm probably one of the biggest M*A*S*H fans there is, but that doesn't mean the show is, or was ever, flawless.
And, to be perfectly clear, I never said it was flawless, either.
quote:The mixed messages inherent in this kind of presentation of "empowerment" just don't work for me. They frustrate me instead, and nobody goes in for escapism in order to feel frustrated. [/QB]
Then you absolutely should stay away from it or from any show that makes you feel frustrated.
By the way, I'm enjoying this discussion. We see the show in so many different ways that I'm learning a lot from your views. Thanks for an intelligent and lively debate.
[ March 20, 2010, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: He Who Wanders ]
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
quote:Originally posted by cleome:
quote:Originally posted by He Who Wanders: [snip]
I thought George Clooney was considered "conventionally handsome" (to use your term). He's certainly been cast in rugged, leading man-type roles.
Uh, yeah. He is. That's kind of the point. Whereas Murray is not. But there's no female counterpart of Bill Murray in Hollywood that I've ever heard of.
Then I missed your point about Clooney. My bad.
I'm not sure any more exactly what Bill Murray's "type" is. He normally does not star in movies I care to watch. In his younger days, he was the laid-back and somewhat goofy but still "attractive" leading man--at least that was his role in Ghostbusters and Spies Like Us, where he worked alongside the even less "conventionally handsome" Dan Aykroyd.
What role he plays now in movies I can't say.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Murray, at least originally, was a comedian rather than the conventional leading man, so somewhat different rules apply to him. Traditionally, other-than-conventionally-handsome men are relegated to comedic roles, often as supporting characters or sidekicks to more conventionally handsome leading men.
Posted by cleome on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: Murray, at least originally, was a comedian rather than the conventional leading man, so somewhat different rules apply to him. Traditionally, other-than-conventionally-handsome men are relegated to comedic roles, often as supporting characters or sidekicks to more conventionally handsome leading men.
Clooney has played comedic roles and Murray has played dramatic ones, however. And somehow it's always a big deal when one guy crosses over into the other guy's territory. People forget that one reason this is possible is because the roles exist for them, as such roles rarely do for actresses.
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by He Who Wanders: Returning to Buffy, I'm still struck by the idea that it was the women who had the powers in the show and not the men. The show may fall far short of making a feminist statement, but I think it was quite revolutionary in its own way.
On the one hand, cool, even revolutionary, in it's own way, but on the other hand, if the only way a woman can be portrayed as 'empowered' or in a primary leadership role over men is if she *has superpowers,* that goes right back around to de-empowerment, IMO.
It just says to the 3.5 billion real women in the real world, that, since they *don't* have the ability to bench-press a Buick, this 'empowerment' is not *their* empowerment.
If Willow, for example, had remained a geeky smart nerd who used her hacking skills, enormous squishy brain and basic good-heartedness and unflappable optimism to contribute just fine for the first few seasons, then *that* would be an empowering message, IMO, since it would be saying that *Willow,* the mousy little slip of a girl, could make a difference, and not that the Super-Wicca Jean-Grey / Dark-Phoenix-pastiche was what makes her 'empowered' or special or relevant to the story.
By making the two core female characters super-powered, while two of the three main male characters, Xander and Giles, remained un-empowered, and yet considered 'full Scoobies,' it suggests that women are *not* considered equal, and that they have to have super-powers to 'count.'
Dark Angel, IMO, did a marginally better job of this particular thing, in that Max regularly associated with male super-powered folk by the second season (Joshua and Alec) and yet was clearly the leader, not because she was stronger (that would be Joshua), but because she was the best suited for that role, for reasons that had nothing to do with her gender or her super-endowments.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
quote:Originally posted by Set:
quote:Originally posted by He Who Wanders: Returning to Buffy, I'm still struck by the idea that it was the women who had the powers in the show and not the men. The show may fall far short of making a feminist statement, but I think it was quite revolutionary in its own way.
On the one hand, cool, even revolutionary, in it's own way, but on the other hand, if the only way a woman can be portrayed as 'empowered' or in a primary leadership role over men is if she *has superpowers,* that goes right back around to de-empowerment, IMO.
Good point, although we can extrapolate a little further and say that all super-heroes carry this message. In other words, the only way a man or a woman can succeed in a super-hero universe is to have powers.
quote: If Willow, for example, had remained a geeky smart nerd who used her hacking skills, enormous squishy brain and basic good-heartedness and unflappable optimism to contribute just fine for the first few seasons, then *that* would be an empowering message, IMO, since it would be saying that *Willow,* the mousy little slip of a girl, could make a difference, and not that the Super-Wicca Jean-Grey / Dark-Phoenix-pastiche was what makes her 'empowered' or special or relevant to the story.
This, too, is a good point. But I wonder, does Willow later becoming a witch take anything away from her accomplishments as a "geeky smart nerd" in the earlier seasons?
quote:By making the two core female characters super-powered, while two of the three main male characters, Xander and Giles, remained un-empowered, and yet considered 'full Scoobies,' it suggests that women are *not* considered equal, and that they have to have super-powers to 'count.'
I disagree. Willow was, after all, a full Scooby before she became a witch.
Posted by cleome on :
[snip]
quote:Originally posted by He Who Wanders:
By the way, I'm enjoying this discussion. We see the show in so many different ways that I'm learning a lot from your views. Thanks for an intelligent and lively debate.
Crap. I did it wrong. Again.
Likewise, I'm sure.
Posted by Dev Em on :
Never watched Buffy the show. Saw the movie, like Paul Reubens death scene...that never ended. Never had any desire to watch that or Angel...So I guess it kind of falls into this topic for me. I don't necessarily hate it, but I sure didn't like it.
Posted by Mattropolis on :
The movie is nothing like the series except for the character names...
Posted by Dev Em on :
While I appreciate all that he did for comics, I am not a fan of Kirby's artwork in and of itself. Meybe because the first of it I really saw was his later works.
I wouldn't call it outright hate...I really don't think he was a good artist. He was a terrific layout man, maybe second to none.
Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
I have heard Rod Stewart described as sexy. I've always thought of him as an old fart.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
quote:Originally posted by Dev Em: While I appreciate all that he did for comics, I am not a fan of Kirby's artwork in and of itself. Meybe because the first of it I really saw was his later works.
I wouldn't call it outright hate...I really don't think he was a good artist. He was a terrific layout man, maybe second to none.
I agree. I first encountered Kirby during his Captain America work of the '70s, and it was somehow different--more exaggerated and stiff--than his '60s work. Even then, I'm not a big fan of his '60s stuff. Fans lionize Kirby for the imagination and power in his art; it has those qualities, but I also like semi-realistic bodies, grace, and nuance--qualities I never saw in his art.
Posted by Mattropolis on :
quote:Originally posted by He Who Wanders:
quote:Originally posted by Dev Em: While I appreciate all that he did for comics, I am not a fan of Kirby's artwork in and of itself. Meybe because the first of it I really saw was his later works.
I wouldn't call it outright hate...I really don't think he was a good artist. He was a terrific layout man, maybe second to none.
I agree. I first encountered Kirby during his Captain America work of the '70s, and it was somehow different--more exaggerated and stiff--than his '60s work. Even then, I'm not a big fan of his '60s stuff. Fans lionize Kirby for the imagination and power in his art; it has those qualities, but I also like semi-realistic bodies, grace, and nuance--qualities I never saw in his art.
I also agree, I grew up in the time of Gweorge Perez and John Byrne. Kirby's work never appealed to me
Posted by Set on :
I do like his Kirby's style, with the funky costumes with the circles and lightning bolts, but his people looked very blocky, and he drew atrocious teeth. (Indeed, his artwork looked only a bit better than Giffen's later 'blocky' phase, but not quite so gritty and angular.)
But, for funky costumes, I much prefer Cockrum's intricate designs with weird lacy stuff (used on Jeckie and Vi's outfits, and over in Marvel in the Shiar designs and Polaris' original outfit).
I'm not a Kirby hater, by any means, but, to me, he's like Heath Ledger's Joker, something that seems to have become the bestest.thing.ever after he died.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
Kirby was considered a legend for decades before he died.
To this day, I have not seen the Heath Ledger Batman movie. Maybe I should start a new thread: "Things you are supposed to like but really don't care much about."
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
About Kirby, I'm not the biggest fan of his stuff, but I realize that a lot of it was great.
AS to the the stylized kirby stuff, it took me a long time to realize that a lot of the Kirby "look" was not him making up circles and lines at all, but were in fact if not inspired direct uses of the symbols for electrical plans and engineering.
One day it clicked for me and it was a forehead slapping "well duh" moment. I've appreciated what he did more since then.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Now you guys are getting crazy. Anti-fans of Kirby? Bah, I hate all of you! HWW is right though, he was already considered a legend in the Silver Age when a lot of his most famous co-creations came out. Part of why Kirby is considered so legendary is because of (A) his layouts (B) the "energy" he brought to each story via composition and the story itself (C) he basically did the lion's share of most of the creating of the classic Marvel Universe, plus a plethora of other things for other comic book universes, (D) he co-created the entire romance genre in comic books, created the "kid gang" genre and was a major pioneer of superheroes, western and war comics (E) he explored heavy topics such as religion and 1960's hippie ideas to the extreme when others simply thought it wouldn't work in comics, and (F) well, I could go on and on. But its true what the say: Stan had instructed his other bullpen artists to "draw like Kirby did" while Kirby was there and afterwards; and while its obvious many 70's Marvel artists were copying Kirby's style directly (like a young Keith Giffen), what Stan meant was draw like Kirby in terms of layouts, composition and energy. Because the "Marvel house style" was really the "Jack Kirby style".
An artist I've never really been a huge fan of is Curt Swan. But I don't necessarily hate his work, so that doesn't really fit in with this thread. But he's one of my least favorite Silver Age artists.
In all honesty, there's really no comic book artist whose work I really hate. I like just about all of them at varying degrees for various reasons. Its only artists of the 80's, 90's and modern era that obviously have been influenced by almost exclusively other comic book artists (other than actual real life) whose work I'm more apt to find of poorer quality.
As I've written this, I kept trying to think of an artist whose work I really hate but keep coming up with nothing. Certainly no Golden Age or Silver Age greats.
Posted by Mattropolis on :
George Tuska is the first one that comes to my mind
Posted by Dev Em on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Now you guys are getting crazy. Anti-fans of Kirby? Bah, I hate all of you! HWW is right though, he was already considered a legend in the Silver Age when a lot of his most famous co-creations came out. Part of why Kirby is considered so legendary is because of (A) his layouts (B) the "energy" he brought to each story via composition and the story itself (C) he basically did the lion's share of most of the creating of the classic Marvel Universe, plus a plethora of other things for other comic book universes, (D) he co-created the entire romance genre in comic books, created the "kid gang" genre and was a major pioneer of superheroes, western and war comics (E) he explored heavy topics such as religion and 1960's hippie ideas to the extreme when others simply thought it wouldn't work in comics, and (F) well, I could go on and on. But its true what the say: Stan had instructed his other bullpen artists to "draw like Kirby did" while Kirby was there and afterwards; and while its obvious many 70's Marvel artists were copying Kirby's style directly (like a young Keith Giffen), what Stan meant was draw like Kirby in terms of layouts, composition and energy. Because the "Marvel house style" was really the "Jack Kirby style".
An artist I've never really been a huge fan of is Curt Swan. But I don't necessarily hate his work, so that doesn't really fit in with this thread. But he's one of my least favorite Silver Age artists.
In all honesty, there's really no comic book artist whose work I really hate. I like just about all of them at varying degrees for various reasons. Its only artists of the 80's, 90's and modern era that obviously have been influenced by almost exclusively other comic book artists (other than actual real life) whose work I'm more apt to find of poorer quality.
As I've written this, I kept trying to think of an artist whose work I really hate but keep coming up with nothing. Certainly no Golden Age or Silver Age greats.
I do not like his actual art. I appreciate all that he did, and he did do all those things you said, and I fully get what it's all about. I like what he brought to comics, just not the actual art that he did.
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I kept trying to think of an artist whose work I really hate but keep coming up with nothing.
Not even Rob Liefield?
Yeah, 'hate' is a strong world. The relatively popular artist that I like least (less even than Liefield) would have to be Carmine Infantino.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Dev, I get what you're saying. I actually do love Kirby's actual art myself, but art is a very subjective thing so I see where you're coming from.
Set, Rob Liefield is a funny thing. For the longest time I would *say* I hated Liefield's art. Then this past summer I reread his New Mutants issues and his X-Force issues and while I don't consider it on level with say, Kirby , I don't actually hate it. Its over the top ridiculous and obviously just absolutely incorrect. But its got a style to it.
What I do hate, actually, is when he would do full swipes from other artists, as he did in X-Force #1. I also dislike that greatly about Greg Land. And Liefield for a time, was all about swiping from other artists.
From interviews with Rob, I kind of get the sense he's a good guy that got rich too young and too quick and now can barely get himself together for even a single comic book. I feel bad that he gets hated on so badly. (But I'd never let that stand in the way of a good LW joke).
Yet, despite that whole rant, I feel like I'm forgetting an artist whose work I dislike. It'll come to me.
Besides anime. That definitely is not a style I like.
Posted by cleome on :
I've very much appreciated Kirby's sense of action and composing a page. Some of his designs are also beautiful and have a great sense of coherence to them. (See rickshaw1's comments.) I spent a lot of time when I was younger trying to master that kind of thing. Uh, didn't quite make it, but there you go.
Where he wasn't quite there was with faces and expression, but that's true of a lot of comic book artists. Just as some have a great eye for other things, but they just don't do composition well. They can illustrate beautifully, but the eye isn't compelled to "travel." It feels more like a collection of random illustrations than like a comics page.
Posted by Dev Em on :
Ah...and Mr. 501 Liefeld is brought into the mix.
Swiping is a touchy subject at times. There are true 100% without a doubt swipes...Like Cobie said, look at some of Rob's work. Thenn there are things that could be swipes, or could be two highly similiar drawings. There are only so many ways to draw certian things.
I dislike most of Robs work more than I dislike Kirby's. Artwise that is. When it comes to layout and depth...Rob cannot even get out of bed on the same Planet as Jack. Rob is just not a good artist. Hell of a nice guy to talk to, but a dweeb when he tries to draw.
Ditko is another artist who I love or hate. Love his older work (Spidey and Doc Strange), and cannot stand anything I've seen of his since 1980 or so. The LSH fill in was bad to me. Speedball was horrific looking.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Actually, I liked what Rob did on Hawk and Dove. His characters hadn't achieved humongous proportions yet, everyone didn't have incredibly tiny feet and ankles, there were no bandoliers yet, no eye scars...it was actually pretty good, slightly different, refreshing.
Then it went to hell fast.
Posted by Dev Em on :
I've read where he hated dthe way his art looked in Hawk and Dove, which I agree was the high point of his career...largely due to the inking on that book.
Posted by Stealth on :
Long as we're talking comic book creators...
Gail Simone's writing.
Gail herself seems like a geniuinely good-hearted person, and her crusade against misogyny in comics was absolutely necessary.
It's her actual writing that I don't like. I find it mannered, smug, and overly self-conscious with what passes for irony. Furthermore, I rejected what's regarded as her magnum opus, Birds of Prey, after reading a scene where the supposed heroines indulge in reverse sexism -- I prefer my heroines to be above that sort of behavior. Plus I don't like that she calls attention to herself as Teh Female Comic Book Writer. The female action/adventure writers that I admire -- Christy Marx, Ann Nocenti, Louise Simonson, Jo Duffy -- never did that; instead, they let their writing speak for itself.
Posted by cleome on :
[snip]
Stealth:
quote:...I prefer my heroines to be above that sort of behavior...
I heard somebody announce proudly on another board that they'd never buy BOP because they didn't believe in supporting sexism. Uh, yeah. So all those other team comics where it's 100% or 90% pure sausage... those are okay to buy. [snerk] Whatever.
One of these days, I suppose I'll have to read Simone, just because I hate not having an original opinion on stuff everyone else is talking about. I hope I don't end up hating it.
Posted by Stealth on :
quote:Originally posted by cleome: [snip]
Stealth:
quote:...I prefer my heroines to be above that sort of behavior...
I heard somebody announce proudly on another board that they'd never buy BOP because they didn't believe in supporting sexism. Uh, yeah. So all those other team comics where it's 100% or 90% pure sausage... those are okay to buy. [snerk] Whatever.
I hope you're not tarring me with the same brush. Sexism is bad no matter who's giving and who's receiving.
Posted by dedman on :
Going of the comic track here....
I hate fish. I'm originally from Newfoundland, a province that for years relied heavily on the fishing industry. EVERYONE from Newfoundland is supposed to like fish. I don't. I don't like the taste and I don't like the texture. Belive me I've tried many kinds of fish, prepared many different ways, but to me it is all just vile.
Posted by cleome on :
[snip]
quote:Originally posted by Stealth: I hope you're not tarring me with the same brush. Sexism is bad no matter who's giving and who's receiving.
I don't believe in reverse-sexism. It's possible for women to discriminate on an individual level, but outside a Dave Sim comic, it's impossible for women to create a culture of sexism. We don't have that kind of power as a group.
I've spent my whole life hearing about how such-and-such movie or such-and-such book/comic/whatever should be accepted and even loved despite the fact that it's an all-male product depicting and all-male world. That's millions and millions of bands, art movements, films, schools of philosophy, and so on.
So, no. I'm not going to get bent out of shape because here and there somebody produces a comic where all the major characters are women. It may be a lousy book, but that's a separate issue.
I get really tired of the idea that the least powerful individuals in any given relationship have to constantly rise above situations in which the most powerful are in love with the status quo and feel little or no obligation to change it. It's damned if you do and damned if you don't. The powerful don't want you (except perhaps as a token that will badmouth others like yourself, thus justifying the opinions of the powerful) but they sure love it when you beg to get into the clubhouse. As soon as you found your own clubhouse, though, they start shouting about how bigoted and awful you are.
It's a rigged game. It sucks.
Posted by Stealth on :
Whew.
To say we've gotten away from the point I was originally trying to make is an understatement.
I have NOTHING against an all-women comic, bad or good. It DOES bother me when female protagonists indulge in the same sort of reprehensible behavior as men.
I don't believe there is a "culture" of reverse sexism. I'm saying that many women have horrible attitudes towards men that cause as much harm as men's attitudes towards women, and I don't like seeing Dinah Drake and Barbara Gordon showing these attitudes, THEREFORE I don't read the comic in which an overrated writer portrays them as having those attitudes.
Have I made myself clear?
Posted by cleome on :
Sure. I'd still like to read the book at some point and judge for myself, though.
Also, I'm pretty sure that there are several male protagonists in comics and elsewhere that we're supposed to regard as heroic despite the fact that they have some problematic ideas about women. I have no idea if that's what Simone is going for. Should be interesting when I finally get around to reading it.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
quote:Originally posted by dedman: Going of the comic track here....
I hate fish. I'm originally from Newfoundland, a province that for years relied heavily on the fishing industry. EVERYONE from Newfoundland is supposed to like fish. I don't. I don't like the taste and I don't like the texture. Belive me I've tried many kinds of fish, prepared many different ways, but to me it is all just vile.
And, jumping off of this idea . . .
I'm from the Midwest. I was born in the town where Jesse James died. So, Western culture should be important to me, right?
Wrong.
I find most Westerns boring. I don't own a gun (and don't even like guns). I don't chew tobacky, and I've ridden a horse maybe three times in my life. In short, I don't identify with the cowboy motif/culture at all.
Yet I had a professor from Boston who came to the Midwest because he was attracted to that culture. Go figure.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Different is exotic to most people.
I doubt I'd do well out in the desert west, I buy timber, lol. But I'd still like to travel out there one day.
I don't like Nascar. I grew up and live 30 miles away from the mack granddaddy of all tracks, Darlington. Even been around the track a few times before they switched it around and turn number 4 was the crap your pants turn. I spend all day in a truck. And if the sport requires me to look at a leader board because no one else can tell who is in the lead due to "lapping", count me out.
Still don't like it. Does nothing for me.
As well, I don't hunt anymore, not because I'm opposed, but because no one in my family will eat it and I don't waste food like that. I don't like when they hunt with running dogs because every year a passel of dogs that have been pen raised are turned loose and starve to death or get hit by cars.
fishin' I love cause I get to get away from everyone and the telephones and its quiet. Don't even care if I catch a fish.
I am a southern country boy, but some of the trappings I'd rather fall into a nest of squirrels with syrup on my boys than partake in.
Posted by Set on :
I don't get the attraction to the ocean. I love swimming. I love water. Whenever I go anywhere, if the hotel has a pool, I'm there waiting for it to open in the morning and I'm the guy they have to ask to get out when they close it up at night. I even like that song by the Little River Band. But the ocean, in my experience, is cold, and smells bad, and is freaking *boring.* It's flat and it's blue. If I wanted to look at flat and blue, I can look up in the sky *anywhere,* and see flat and blue. Can we go home now?
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
quote:Originally posted by Set: But the ocean, in my experience, is cold, and smells bad, and is freaking *boring.* It's flat and it's blue.
Plus there are sharks and sea-monsters!
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Depends on the ocean and where you experience it, Set. I'm in South Carolina, bout an hour and ten minutes away. Nine months out the year its fantastic. 3 months out the year I'd rather pour honey all over me and piss off a beehive.
Posted by Set on :
I suspect that I'd love the Caribbean, but up here, the beaches are all either slimy rocks or really course sand, and the water doesn't get much over 50 degrees.
Meh. The only part of going to the beach that is worth the price of admission I can get by watching repeats of Baywatch. Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Live and in person is better than tv anyday, lol. Ya' might get lucky in person.
Posted by cleome on :
quote:Originally posted by Set: I don't get the attraction to the ocean. I love swimming. I love water. Whenever I go anywhere, if the hotel has a pool, I'm there waiting for it to open in the morning and I'm the guy they have to ask to get out when they close it up at night. I even like that song by the Little River Band. But the ocean, in my experience, is cold, and smells bad, and is freaking *boring.* It's flat and it's blue. If I wanted to look at flat and blue, I can look up in the sky *anywhere,* and see flat and blue. Can we go home now?
Okay, that's eerie. I made my horrific reference to LRB in another thread without reading this one first. Obviously evil spirits are at work.
I love the shore, actually, particularly in the off-season. What I can't stand are amusement parks and carnivals. Too much waiting around and expenditure for not enough reward. I guess they were fun when I was a kid, but I haven't had the urge to set foot in one since I was about fifteen years old.
They look nice in photographs and such, though.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Italian pasta.
I'm sorry, it just tastes like bad tomato paste to me. Really does. everyone around me acts like its the second coming of food, but it tastes like bad paste.
I like what it does for some women that like a nice booty, but other than that, i wouldn't serve it to my dog.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Women/girls dressed as Princess Effin Leah. Really. Just so sick and tired of it. Its overdone, overplayed, and just really...stop it!
I like women. I sorta like Star Wars. I've seen to many versions, including the friends version, to ever wanna see it again.
Find something new. Don't care what. Hell, go as a bikini girl. You show just as much, look a heck of a lot cuter, and will be dressed as someone that doesn't live in the 1970's.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Vampire movies/stories/books.
Effin Effin tired of them. Really. Be it true horror, comedy, or teen romance enough. Really, enough.
This fad is going on infinity too long now. Plenty of other monsters out there to show off that are really nasty and interesting.
Posted by cleome on :
quote:Originally posted by rickshaw1: [snip]
Italian pasta.
...I'm sorry, it just tastes like bad tomato paste to me. Really does. everyone around me acts like its the second coming of food, but it tastes like bad paste...
There's Italian cuisine that doesn't feature tomatoes, FWIW. Carbonara is awesome, as is Scampi. Well, they are to me. I'm kind of a freak about garlic. Posted by cleome on :
I'm originally from New Jersey, and I've never, ever liked more than a couple of Bruce Springsteen's songs. Really. Mostly they're just deadly dull and depressing to me. I don't like his voice, either. And while the association between "Born In The U.S.A." and particularly virulent forms of jingoism isn't Springsteen's fault, it still annoys the crap out of me. It makes me think of almost everything phony and smarmy I ever hated about certain brands of Eighties "roots rock."
Ironically, I'm pretty fond of the "Tunnel of Love" single, which all his real fans seem to loathe.
The above is the real reason that I had to flee New Jersey under cover of darkness, BTW. Posted by Set on :
That bread-dipped-in-oil crap they serve as an appetizer at fancy Italian restaurants.
I don't like bread, especially the flavorless and chewy bread they tend to use for this 'dish,' and oil (olive or otherwise, virgin or 'experienced' or 40-weight) makes me nauseous, so it's a lose-lose dish, but oh my word, people go bonkers over that stuff.
It's bread and oil, people! They give it to you because it costs *nothing* to make! Eat a salad or something!
Posted by Triplicate Kid on :
To add to my first-page comment:
Steak.
A lot of manga art. It's not just "why the eyes?" Most artists' work is hard to follow, at least in black and white. Rarely do clarity and composition seem to be major concerns. Fight scenes are often like modern movies, poorly lit and too many confusing close-ups. I read them more for the stories, the majority of which aren't that good either.
quote:Women/girls dressed as Princess Effin Leah. Really. Just so sick and tired of it. Its overdone, overplayed, and just really...stop it!
I like women. I sorta like Star Wars. I've seen to many versions, including the friends version, to ever wanna see it again.
Find something new. Don't care what. Hell, go as a bikini girl. You show just as much, look a heck of a lot cuter, and will be dressed as someone that doesn't live in the 1970's.
A lot of people are bothered by the fact that most convention Leias are gold bikini Leia.
That reminds me: Fetishism. Or, more accurately, "fetish". There are a lot of fetishes. I'm totally not into the standard BD$M, leather'n'vinyl thing. Particularly don't like it when they wear something covering only the non-naughty parts. Haven't they ever heard about tantalization? Oh, I have some fetishes, just not what's usually called "kink". I won't say what they actually are. I'll just say that I like my girls somewhat cuter and nicer. I don't like when they try too hard, and I want my pin-up to be someone I can imagine I'd want to stay around afterward. It's the same reason my Legionnaire crush is Ayla and why Tasmia can stay away.
[ March 27, 2010, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: Triplicate Kid ]
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by rickshaw1: Italian pasta.
I'm sorry, it just tastes like bad tomato paste to me. Really does. everyone around me acts like its the second coming of food, but it tastes like bad paste.
I like what it does for some women that like a nice booty, but other than that, i wouldn't serve it to my dog.
You need to have it where there's a lot more Italian history, like up here in CT or NY.
I know when I travel in the US--which I do extensively--there are certain things I don't get in certain places. I don't get Italian food in the South, Midwest or Southwest, just like I don't expect good country BBQ in the Northeast.
If its the red sauce you don't like (or marinera, as they are two very different things), there's so many other great dishes to try!
And oil & bread is the best! It's a reflection of the poor peasant history of Italy. It's also not meant as a substitute for a salad or appetizer--you're supposed to get that too.
- Non-Italian Cobie, whose friends have always been made up of a large number of Italian Americans.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Oh, and count me as someone who doesn't like the popularized usage of the word 'fetish' where it ends up not really conveying the meaning of the word. For instance when someone says "I love a shoe fetish" referring to their love of shoes; no, that means you have an almost uncontrollable sexual need to include shoes in your sex experiences.
I'm not against people having fetishses (hey, its time for us all to be free sexually!), but I dislike when media misuse the words to sound edgy and trendy.
Posted by Set on :
Fetish is supposed to be an item of spiritual significance, like a talisman or amulet! I get annoyed to hear it referred to as being a sex thing.
And oh, I have Italian friends and family, but I prefer stuff with lots of meats, cheeses and sauces. Breads and pastas do nothing for me.
Posted by Jerry on :
You are so right about the regional nature of foods. The worst Italian restaurant I ever went to was in El Paso, Texas. Why did I stop to eat Italian in El Paso?!? It had been a long day of driving through the desert and it sounded like a good idea at the time.
On the other hand, I've had pretty decent Italian in Atlanta.
Posted by Triplicate Kid on :
Visiting other countries. It's not just that most popular tourist spots are staging everything for tourists. I just can't see the point of going somewhere to see it firsthand and do... what? I can't really give a better explanation; the idea is just alien to me.
I'm a trainspotter, have been since long before I was a Legion fan. That's the only thing that can motivate me to go somewhere. I guess I don't have a tourist mentality, but I do have a hunter's mentality. Or at least a birdwatcher's. I want to see and film trains in their "natural" environment. And, unlike birds, every type vanishes on a much shorter time scale. Most of the trains I want to see are either already gone or will be before I get a chance to see them.
Oh - there is one category of places I'd want to visit just for the sake of visiting. They're far from being tourist spots; many of them have no population at all. Arctic and sub-Antarctic islands. I'm agoraphobic. I want to live in a dense city. So why do I want to visit the remotest places on Earth? Probably just for the thrill of triggering that agoraphobia to an extent I've never experienced.
Posted by cleome on :
Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale. I love several of her books, but not that one. Some "real" writers just sound all chilly and patronizing when they try to write SciFi; it feels like they're just phoning it in. A classic example of good concept, lackluster execution.
Posted by cleome on :
Anything by John Hughes except for Planes, Trains & Automobiles. He's supposed to be "The comedic voice of my generation" or something and I've yet to try watching any of his famous films that DIDN'T make me want to punch everyone involved in the face. At least twice.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
I seem to have struck a nerve with this thread. Glad everyone vented on it. Hope it made you feel better.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Great thread!
I can even forgive you space-crazy posters who don't like Jack Kirby and beer! Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Feh! Feh I say to you, sir. Rotgut sourmash over beer anyday.
Posted by cleome on :
Incidentally, are women still expected to universally adore huge, complicated, expensive weddings? Because I don't like them, and I didn't have one.
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by cleome: Incidentally, are women still expected to universally adore huge, complicated, expensive weddings? Because I don't like them, and I didn't have one.
Not a woman, but I've always felt that a couple should elope, just them and a Justice of the Peace, and then, a year later, have an actual ceremony of some sort (not necessarily one that looks like a faith healing tent revival or anything, but one with family and friends).
Less focus on the decision day and more on the successive years of successful marriage, when the couple actually have an accomplishment to celebrate.
In any event, it shouldn't be about how much money you (or your parents) spent, it should be about something more important.
Posted by cleome on :
[snip]
quote:Originally posted by Set:
In any event, it shouldn't be about how much money you (or your parents) spent, it should be about something more important.
Right after I read this, I stumbled onto some site full of elaborate wedding stuff. There were (I kid you not) custom-made M&M-type candies with the happy couple's name on them.
Apparently, there are people out there who will feel ill-served as wedding guests if you don't plunk down the bucks to provide these.
3 lbs., (or 2 1/2 C of candies) will run you around $28.
Kill me now.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Time off. Seriously, I don't have a lot of money to take a really great day or two off, and If I did, I'd get back even more tired than I was before I left. I pretty much don't like them. A two week vacation...that's one thing, but just a day or an afternoon off...I'd rather be working.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
Summer.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Lost. I genuinely came to dislike that show. It had a nice start, then went to hell really fast with all the "mystery". And the ending was basically the Dallas ending, with it all being a dying "dream" of purgatory.
Bleech.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
For our wedding my wife and I had one rule... plates. For the reception we wanted actual full sized plates that could hold a real amount of food for everyone. It being the small country church I went to as a boy and where her dad and grandmother are buried, we were limited in what we could do. No dancing and music, but since we don't dance, at least, I don't dance, it wasn't a big thing.
But, we told the planner that we wanted plenty of food for everyone. None of those tiny plates that people can only get one or two things on and then stand around wondering how to eat with one hand holding the plate and one hand holding a drink. Tables and chairs for everyone (remember, small country church) and plenty of food. Even my snobby upper middle class surgeon uncle (who's wife once informed our family that "Jerry Powell" doesn't serve himself at a buffet was seen going through the line three times and chowin' down.
My wife and I lay in bed the next morning and plowed through some fruit plates.
Posted by SharkLad on :
tomatoes ...
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Right there with ya, Sharky.
Posted by Quislet, Esq on :
And here I thought I was the only one.
Of course I probably take it a step further than you guys. No spaghetti sauce, no ketchup, no barbeque sauce, no pizza.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
for me, its the raw tomatoes. I just don't like them. Not on burgers, not in a salad, just don't. And I've just about had to give up ketchup thanks to the hidden sugars factor and my diabeties.
Pretty soon, I'm gonna be living like george jetson. If ya wanna eat, ya take a pill.
bummer.
But, Garlic? ohhhh baby.
Posted by Lsh Em on :
quote:Originally posted by Quislet, Esq: And here I thought I was the only one.
Of course I probably take it a step further than you guys. No spaghetti sauce, no ketchup, no barbeque sauce, no pizza.
That's a serious aversion Quis.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Yeah, for me it's really a matter of the texture of the raw tomatoes than anything else. I don't mind ketchup, for example. Though I typically prefer my pizzas with non-tomato based sauces.
Posted by cLSHeome on :
I can eat the upscale, vine-ripened tomatoes. But they really need to be in or on something. A BLT, for instance. Or on some crusty bread with a strong cheese like Gorgonzola.
I've been known to make my own ketchup from scratch when I'm feeling industrious. Or at least, using plain tomato paste as the base.
Posted by dedman on :
If I didn't like tomotoes I wouldn't eat much... almost everything I cook has some sort of tomatoe product in it!
Some thing I don't like: Salt
Salt is a huge part of the diet back in Newfoundland. It goes on or in almost everything. But I don't like it at all. I never add it to any of my dishes when cooking, and generally try to make my food from scratch to avoid the "hidden" salts in processed food.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Hot and steamy love scenes in normal movies.
Okay, I like hot sex as much as the next guy, but honestly, watching it, even with just my wife, makes me uncomfortable. I fast forward though the "love" scenes to get back to the story.
If you want to be a voyeur or exhibitionist, knock yerself out. Just don't expect me to hang around and watch while it happens.
Posted by Power Boy on :
the walking dead tv show.
Posted by Quislet, Esq on :
Glee. I rented the first season. Saw the first two episodes and part of the third and I waslike meh!
I wouldn't say I hate it, but it doesn't do anything for me.
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
Cheesecake.
Posted by cleome on :
Twilight. Even the wonderful dudes at Rifftrax, doing their best to override/parody the horrible dialogue, couldn't make me even see the ironic humor in it. So much blandness and yet so much excruciating "ick" at the same time. Does anyone really find Edward and his buddies hot? I can't decide whether I want to smack them with a giant fish or make them sit down and eat something (other than blood). Maybe it should be both...
I fail at being the right kind of middle-aged female person, apparently.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Well, Cle, I'm a middle aged guy, and I'm right there with you. Sorry, I know the movies are for young girls, but as I have to watch it because my wife likes it... Oh Dear God Rip Out My Eyes doesn't come close to how much I can't stand that series.
Posted by Legion Tracker on :
Coffee. Love the aroma. Can't stand the taste.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Burger King hamburgers. They smell sooooo good, and then you taste them. Cardboard has more flavor.
Posted by cleome on :
quote:Originally posted by rickshaw1: Well, Cle, I'm a middle aged guy, and I'm right there with you. Sorry, I know the movies are for young girls, but as I have to watch it because my wife likes it... Oh Dear God Rip Out My Eyes doesn't come close to how much I can't stand that series.
I suppose there's nothing inherently better about being a forty-something superhero drooler, vs. being a forty-something vampire drooler; especially since in both cases the fictional objects of our affection are wayyyy younger than we are. But I'm going to go ahead and feel superior anyway.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Well, I've noticed that I'm more into hot milf's than young teenage to barely post pubescent young ladies. I always liked older women when I was younger, . Still, where's Sela Ward when ya got her on yer list, right?!
Posted by He Who LSHes on :
Sela Ward is currently on CSI:NY--the only reason to watch that show, IMO.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
That shows still on the air? Never watched any of the CSI's. Not my thing.
Posted by cleome on :
quote:Originally posted by rickshaw1: Well, I've noticed that I'm more into hot milf's than young teenage to barely post pubescent young ladies. I always liked older women when I was younger, . Still, where's Sela Ward when ya got her on yer list, right?!
Oy. Reminds me: I was on another fan board earlier this year talking about how much better vinyl sounds than CDs. Some dude demanded to know if I was a "hot MILF" or something like that. I sent him this sexy nude photo of myself and told him not to plaster it all over the internet.
Kids today, I tell you...
Posted by He Who LSHes on :
Sexy and slappy, cleome. Posted by rickshaw1 on :
quote:Originally posted by cleome:
quote:Originally posted by rickshaw1: Well, I've noticed that I'm more into hot milf's than young teenage to barely post pubescent young ladies. I always liked older women when I was younger, . Still, where's Sela Ward when ya got her on yer list, right?!
Oy. Reminds me: I was on another fan board earlier this year talking about how much better vinyl sounds than CDs. Some dude demanded to know if I was a "hot MILF" or something like that. I sent him this sexy nude photo of myself and told him not to plaster it all over the internet.
Kids today, I tell you...
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
My wife is pretty much the only "younger" woman I've ever gone for. And at five years younger, thats a bit for me, but she's the only one I want, so I don't really worry about the milfs and gilfs and teenies or latest hot young thang that hollywood says I'm supposed to like.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Squash. It's supposed to be good for you, you are supposed to like it. I don't. I don't like a lot of vegetables that frankly don't taste good.
Posted by Quislet, Esq on :
Cheese. It is supposed to be something everyone loves and wants. Not me.
I don't make secret how much I dislike tomatoes and pizza.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
I don't like it when servers don't know how to properly prepare the presentation of the cheese at high toned gatherings, of which I attend so many.
People, learn the proper technique for the slicing of cheese. Cut it right.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Regis.
Seriously. I can't like anyone that thinks normal conversation involves shouting at the top of their voice. Chris Matthews, and lately Sean Hannity as well.
Posted by Rockhopper Lad on :
I'm not a fan of Mr. Philbin, either, Rick. Unfortunately, my mother thinks he hung the moon. Back in the early '90s, he and Kathie Lee were broadcasting a show from Disney World, which is very close to where my parents lived at the time (and my dad still lives) and they managed to get tickets. I sat through the whole episode. The guests included Minnie Moo (a cow with Mickey Mouse-like markings), Hulk Hogan, 15-year-old Jennifer Capriati (who that day was completely unable to hit a tennis ball) and Lee Greenwood and Sandi Patti singing the "Thousand Points of Light" song, a hymn to George H.W. Bush (not someone I particularly admire). My folks were on camera for two seconds in the first minute of the show.
Posted by cleome on :
Rocky: Well, at least nobody can say that family is unimportant to you, right?
Maybe this isn't quite the right thread for it, but the usual Hollywood "Sexiest Man Alive" usually doesn't do anything for me. I like watching George Clooney's films, for example. But I don't go out of my way to watch every last one of them. Also, I don't really chime in when all the red-blooded hetero women around me start carrying on about how they'd like to get in the sack with him. In fact, it makes me twitchy. Like we all have to melt for whomever Hollywood commands us to melt for because we've got no minds of our own.
I wouldn't mind having coffee and cake with the guy, but he'd likely be relieved to know that I'd expect nothing afterward beyond a friendly handshake and maybe an autographed 8"X10" glossy for my older sister.
[ January 22, 2011, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: cleome ]
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Christopher Reeves as Superman.
Okay, before everyone thinks this is a bash of the man, be cool.
The superman movies of the 70's/80's weren't that good. I'm sorry, they just weren't. Reeves as Superman was very stiff. Part of that was because they took the most overwrought ideas from the comics at the time, that Clark was a wimp, etc... and shackled them to the character.
And too, to be honest, Reeves hammed it up some. I'm sorry, I know that's sacrilege, but thats the way I saw them. While SII was the best of the bunch by far, it was still...clunky.
the movie suffered from a lot of the same thing that affected Schumacker's Batman stuff. They kinda only saw the corny, the "kids stuff" part of the comics. Granted, that was the prevailing view of comics by those outside it at the time, but still.
I really haven't seen a good Superman movie.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Superman and the Mole Men = easily the best Superman movie!
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
I actually like the Fleisher cartoons the best.
*I'm aware that I probably spelled his name wrong.
Posted by profh0011 on :
Superman to Lois Lane (courtesy of Siegel & Shuster): "I'll take you to safety-- where I'll be safe from you."
Posted by Set on :
Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman, in general. This big 'trinity' push over the last decade from DC has only served to remind me how little I care for these three characters (although I like Batman in his own books, just not in the League...).
'The big 7' is all the rage over at the DC boards, complaining about how the Justice League is no good without the trinity and Barry, Hal, etc. and I find these characters vastly less interesting than Booster Gold and Vixen and the various other 'second-string' characters that the rest of fandom thinks don't deserve to be on the team.
The only members of the 'big 7' I like are Aquaman and Martian Manhunter.
Posted by cleome on :
Shopping for clothes.
Even when I was supposedly the skinny "ideal" shape, I hated it. All the work of trying crap on, asking a parent or whomever, "Does this look okay?" The pestering from the salespeople while I'm standing in a barely-lit box half in and half out of my clothes? Bleah.
I will shop if I have a specific item in mind that I want, and ideally I could time the whole thing by stopwatch and break whatever my previous record for speed was. I will NOT go shopping for fun. (The exception is going to yard sales, estate sales, and the like. Those rock!)
Having new things is nice, but the work of getting them? A pain in the butt. Always and forever.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Smart phones. Okay, I know that tech is advancing at a pace that makes me into the cranky old geezer already, and I'm only 43. But...
Do you really have to be entertained so much that you can't go ten minutes without having to have a connection to it? I use a cell phone, but I use it to make calls. I don't browse, I don't download. I do use the calculator function, and I do use the alarm and time function. Other than that, its a damn phone, its not your life.
It's something I use for practicality. Its good to have when you are three miles deep in the woods, away from any road or help. Its good for being in contact with clients or family and friends. Other than that, get your nose out of it and look around, there's more to life.
but, thats just me. I don't expect anyone else to feel that way.
Posted by Quislet, Esq on :
Rick,
I agree with you on this. I just saw an ad for a smart phone and Ipad device. One of the selling points was a kid saying how he can now watch movies at the beach. Um.... isn't the point of going to the beach is to be at the beach and swim and stuff?
Posted by profh0011 on :
Isn't the point of a movie being to watch it on a BIG SCREEN???
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
These days, I'm surprised they don't install jacks in peoples heads that tie into their nervous systems when they are born so things can be downloaded directly into their brains. "Hey, kids, why bother to learn things, just get it zapped right into your heads, now with mind altering graphics... From Ronco!"
Posted by future king on :
I agree with all of you. I've had a Blackberry phone for all of two weeks now and I'm already like "mah, whatever." It's just like anything new, it's all about the novelty.
Give me a real beach with my wife and friends or going out for dinner with my wife and/or friends and then catching a new super-hero movie on the big screen any day!
Posted by Legion Tracker on :
All I know is, it's hard to handle Legion World on a smartphone. So what good are they?
Posted by Set on :
Still don't have a cellphone. Every now and then a friend complains to me that some hours have gone by and they 'couldn't reach me.'
"What if I have to reach you?" "Why would you? Either it's an emergency, and I'm not there, so I couldn't do anything anyway, or it's not an emergency, and you can tell me later."
Didn't have a pager when they were the thing, either. My iPod has never left it's docking station, as I use it as an alarm clock.
Kicking and screaming, I will be dragged into the future...
Posted by Power Boy on :
My cell phone's most used feature is the alarm clock.
I can barely find my phone half the time, the other half of the time it's set on silent. my friends hate my lack of phone answering ability. i text message and email. both f which can be read and responded to at a person's leisure or when they have all the facts to reply to a message. they understand this now.
I remember an old Miss Manners article about how it certainly is ok to NOT answer the phone, and that the telephone is a rude machine demanding your attention despite what other important things, or important relaxation, you may be doing. This was before the cell phone. Imagine what she would say now.
I also hate, although i think everyone hates ... other people's use of the cellphone in public. (shouty, walking blind, annoying rings, don't wanna hear their gossip)
i preferred the black berry to the iphone. the blackberry worked as a phone better for me. the iphone seems to be some sort of portable internet device with a phone that sometimes works.
Posted by cleome on :
quote:Originally posted by Quislet, Esq: Rick,
I agree with you on this. I just saw an ad for a smart phone and Ipad device. One of the selling points was a kid saying how he can now watch movies at the beach. Um.... isn't the point of going to the beach is to be at the beach and swim and stuff?
This trend has actually been around for a long, long time. I can't remember the last time where it was okay to go somewhere and just, y'know, concentrate on the thing that you went there to experience.
Hell, I still don't like big-screen TVs at bars-- and those have been popular for years. mr_cleome loves drinking with me at bars because I'll always let him have the seat with the best view. I don't want to see the screens at all if I can possibly help it. Of course, in big bars with multiple screens, this can't ever happen. Posted by cleome on :
I frequently hate public television and radio.
Especially as regards news reporting. The air of smug self-congratulation that radiates off the news reporters and commentators frequently makes me want to punch a wall. These people are really outre' and cutting-edge? Yet simultaneously the cleverer-than-thou "voice of reason," rather than just a more genteel version of the corporate suck-ups to be found on every other type of network-- parroting whatever official line TPTB tell them to?
Huh. Well then, [sarcasm]I guess Obama really is a Commie Muslim-coddling tree-hugging peacenik freak who wants to terrorize us all into polygamous Pagan gay marriages. Now I feel really bad that I didn't actually vote for him [/sarcasm].
Posted by Quislet, Esq on :
(Getting on soapbox) Similar to the phones that let you watch movies, I don't like the minivans with built in VCRs. I can kind of see them for a long road trip, but eventually it gets to the VCR being turned on for a 10 minute trip. And even for the long trip there are other things. When I was young, we would bring games and/or books. We played games like I count all the blue cars, you count all the red cars. And even though driving along a highway is pretty monotonous, but it is good to look outside the car and see whatever there is to see. You'll be surprised at what can pop up.
(gets down off of soapbox)
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
hah. My cranky ludditism is spreading... "To the Horseless Carriage, AWAY!"
Posted by Quislet, Esq on :
Here's a comics related thing. I hate having Mr. Terrific (Terry Sloane) be retro-actively part of the JSA.
Posted by cleome on :
Sandman.
There. I said it. I have tried in vain for years, on an off, to feel something positive towards it. But I've always failed. Gaiman's style just always seems overly precious and stifling to me. And so many of his characters' Big Revelations leave me either puzzled or frankly feeling like they got everything wrong.
I just can't do it.
[ May 28, 2011, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: cleome ]
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Bike riders in big cities. Your safety is your responsibility, not ours @$$hole. Get out if the street.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
actually, it is, lol. But I kinda agree with you. Many don't know the rules of the road when it concerns bikes and automobiles. Auto drivers bear more of the responsibility the way it plays in court.
People that wave to the camera behind home plate on televised ball games. Oh, you are on camera and talking to friends/loved ones/etc... Don't care, I'm there to watch the game, not your need for recognition. Put the freakin cell phone down and pay attention to your kid beside you and the game.
Posted by Rockhopper Lad on :
Batman.
I'm sorry, but a large part of the appeal of the super-hero genre is that super-heroes have super-powers. I just don't get the appeal. I have a soft spot for some non-powered Golden Age characters, but as a modern-day hero, I just don't get it. What really bugs me when people say the only DC character they like is Batman. Posted by He Who LSHes on :
Ditto on Batman.
I've come to admire certain things about the character, but, when I was a kid, he was the last hero I wanted be like. He watched his parents get killed. He has no powers. He had an annoying teenaged sidekick following him around (anyone who has had a a baby brother can attest to how annoying that can be). He strikes terror into the hearts of ordinary citizens as well as criminals. He's frequently wanted by the police, distrusted by his super-hero colleagues (whom he distrusts in return), and displays no emotion other than grim. If he were a kid at school, the other kids would avoid him.
That said, I think those qualities translate better in the films than they do in the comics.
Posted by cleome on :
quote:Originally posted by Rockhopper Lad: Batman.
I'm sorry, but a large part of the appeal of the super-hero genre is that super-heroes have super-powers. I just don't get the appeal. I have a soft spot for some non-powered Golden Age characters, but as a modern-day hero, I just don't get it. What really bugs me when people say the only DC character they like is Batman.
It's not the non-powered aspect that bothers me. It's the idea that everyone should worship Mr. Millionaire who is somehow --because he has no powers-- to be regarded as a self-made man, or hero. And a lot of stories, by the admission of some of the character's biggest fans, are essentially "competence porn." Batman is always perfect and right about everything. Anyone who starts out in a story doubting his rightness and perfection always ends up being cured of their dreadful skepticism by story's end.
Plus, he's just really, really, really overexposed. Much like Wolverine and Deadpool over at Marvel.
[ June 01, 2011, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: cleome ]
Posted by doublechinner on :
Great thread! I've always found contrarianism useful for identifying weaknesses in an argument, and this thread does that well. I really enjoyed Sandman for the parts that WEREN'T precious but in your face, but I had the same thought you did while watching Gaiman's Dr. Who episode--weird, eccentric characters whose eccentricity seems forced and inauthentic.
On Batman, competence porn is a brilliant term! The line to walk with Batman is "always find a way" versus "Ioutsmart everybody without breaking a sweat." Morrison had Batman achieve a peak experience against Darkseid and Dr. Hurt, but it's time for Grant to back off the omniscient stuff.
As for things you are supposed to like, but don't. The rainbow Lanterns. It seems like a great, universe-expanding idea, colors and emotions makes sense, it rationalizes the Star Sapphire thing. But I just HATE it. It dilutes and cheapens the power of the original GL concept, the Guardians are ineffectual boobs, the blood-spurting Rage Lanterns are too gruesome, as are the Fear Lanterns most of the time. Blecch.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Texas Hold 'Em Poker.
Popular for really no reason. Much better ways to play it.
Posted by SharkLad on :
tilapia
[ June 02, 2011, 06:36 PM: Message edited by: SharkLad ]
Posted by cleome on :
Romantic comedies. So many of them are just full of creepy behavior and thoroughly unlikable characters.
Posted by Rockhopper Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by cleome: Romantic comedies. So many of them are just full of creepy behavior and thoroughly unlikable characters.
Ditto on that. Some romantic comedies are wonderful, if the characters being in love is only one aspect of the story, but more often than not, they're more depressing than anything else.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
They tend to be a tad to formulaic for me. Boy meets girl. Some trumped up thing they have to overcome. Boy has to be the one to chase down girl and convince her that he's worth it. If there's a "LOT" of comedy, then its bearable. Honestly, I'd rather watch something like the DIY channel or the history channel. Thank god Carol loves them too.
Posted by cleome on :
quote:Originally posted by Rockhopper Lad:
quote:Originally posted by cleome: Romantic comedies. So many of them are just full of creepy behavior and thoroughly unlikable characters.
Ditto on that. Some romantic comedies are wonderful, if the characters being in love is only one aspect of the story, but more often than not, they're more depressing than anything else.
Yup. Kevin Murphy of MST3K fame also points out that A) Secondary characters are often more likable and interesting than main characters and B) It's easy to feel sorry for secondary characters in these things, since their customary purpose is to present some trivial obstacle to the Twue Destiny of Alpha Male and Alpha Female being together. We're supposed to feel like the straw obstacle makes the Twue Wuv stronger, but usually all it does is make the Alphas look like selfish jerks who don't care about anything but themselves.
[ETA- The comparable handful of same-sex RomComs may not be so bad about this, but I haven't seen enough of them to know.]
Posted by future king on :
Thai/Indian food.
Ok, ok I know this is purely a matter of personal taste. Sorry but aside from the odd little thing or two that I've tried and they were, mmm ok, I just don't get it. My stomach has yet to "jump on the band wagon" I guess! I've tried to enjoy it but I still don't.
Give me my steak and potatoes anyday of the week!
Posted by Set on :
Love Indian food, but I hear ya on the Thai food. A friend *loves* the stuff, and invites me constantly, and I've tried at least a half-dozen dishes. It's either hot enough to leave blisters on your soul, or utterly bland and tasteless.
For me, it's Irish food. We have an Irish pub/eatery in town that's all the rage, and everything I've had there is utterly bland.
My goodness, how far do you have to get from England before the food has flavor? Even *borscht* is better than that stuff!
Posted by Rockhopper Lad on :
Beef.
I haven't eaten it (other than an occasional bite to realize I still feel the same about it) in about 20 years. It's heavy, it gets caught between the teeth and, more often than not, is greasy. I don't eat pork, either, for similar reasons--and, yes, that does include bacon. Actually, bacon is the biggest problem because it often is found in foods that really should be meatless (soups, salads, vegetables dishes).
I do eat poultry and seafood, so I don't consider myself a vegetarian, although I'm very fond of vegetarian meat analogues. Quorn is fantastic.
Posted by He Who LSHes on :
Ironically, I'm eating a beef sandwich while reading this. Posted by Dev Em on :
quote:Originally posted by future king: Thai/Indian food.
Ok, ok I know this is purely a matter of personal taste. Sorry but aside from the odd little thing or two that I've tried and they were, mmm ok, I just don't get it. My stomach has yet to "jump on the band wagon" I guess! I've tried to enjoy it but I still don't.
Give me my steak and potatoes any day of the week!
A local Thai place by work has a great fried rice with all sorts of vegies mixes in. Really tasty, and you do not need to get it real spicey to get good flavor. I eat that and two of the rice noodle dishes and that's about it.
Posted by cleome on :
quote:Originally posted by Set: Love Indian food, but I hear ya on the Thai food. A friend *loves* the stuff, and invites me constantly, and I've tried at least a half-dozen dishes. It's either hot enough to leave blisters on your soul, or utterly bland and tasteless.
Sounds like the restaurant isn't doing it right.
I tend to favor the curry dishes and soups, or noodle dishes, and ask for them done "medium" on the seasonings. Seems to work well.
Posted by cleome on :
quote:Originally posted by SharkLad: tilapia
I feel that way about halibut. It's super-popular here with the trend towards "local-vore" eating. But its texture grosses me out. Doesn't matter where or how it's being prepared. I just can't eat it.
Posted by Rockhopper Lad on :
Southwest Airlines.
I miss the days when flying was an event. I like being able to reserve my seat ahead of time. I like the little frills that don't really cost that much. I really don't like the cattle call seating. Unfortunately, Southwest has a near-monopoly on one of Houston's airports and Continental on the other. I very much enjoyed my flights on JetBlue when I went to Boston a few years back. Unfortunately, that airline only has two flights a day out of Hobby.
Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
I know I already posted about this subject near the beginning of this thread, but I've got...things...bothering me, and I need to vent.
Comeback Queen Kelly Clarkson's getting a lot of love in another thread here at the Anywhere Machine, and I still hate her with every cell in my body.
Her "singing" consists of braying like a tone-deaf elephant with a hot foot, and she seems to me like she's got no class whatsoever. Her idea of complimenting Adele (who I love) is to say, "I like her so much I wanna punch her in the face."
[sarcasm] Now that's one classy diva for our times. [/sarcasm]
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
The Big Bang Theory
So, I assume this show is supposed to appeal to me because I get most of the references to geek/nerd culture in it. But these guys just remind me of various uber-geeky friends/acquaintances I've known in real life who I generally try to avoid hanging out with because they annoy the hell out of me if I'm around them too much. So there's really little desire to actually watch a show about them.
(As opposed to, for example, Troy and Abed on Community, who'd I'd totally love to hang out with and act out scenes from Inspector Spacetime!)
Posted by cleome45 on :
The film Casablanca.
All its female lead ever does is stand around looking gorgeous and sad. She's so passive that she tells a man in her life to "Do the thinking for us both." In a movie full of strong personalities there's simply nothing about her beyond her lovely face and voice that makes me think any man would be made or broken by her presence or absence.
There's something especially obnoxious about this against the setting of WWII, when there were courageous and daring women IRL who stepped into traditionally "masculine" roles both big and small. Women who didn't just sit back looking gorgeous and letting somebody else "Do their thinking for them."
It's supposed to be this epic love story and yet it fills me top to bottom with nothing but annoyance and resentment. (There's a few other great romantic films where this is a problem, but not to this degree.) Great Love is the core of the film but to me the core is just plain hollow.
Posted by Set on :
'Classic' literature.
Faulkner, Dickens, etc. bore the hell out of me. As an English major, I was *supposed* to like this stuff, but As I Lay Dying by Faulkner, was very nearly the death of me. So, so, tedious.
I feel the same way about 'classic' sci-fi or even the most popular books by my favorite authors.
Asimov does nothing for me, and while Zelazny (author of such brilliant stuff as Lords of Light and Creatures of Light and Darkness and Isle of the Dead) is my favorite author of all time, all everyone seems to have read by him is his terrible Amber books, which he flat-out admitted to only grinding out to pay the bills.
Posted by cleome45 on :
Those "baby" carrots that are ubiquitous on "healthy" snack trays.
Their texture is wrong-- all weird and styrofoam-y, and they have exactly zero flavor-- like orange iceberg lettuce. Ugh.
I'll stick to "grown up" carrots, thanks. The thinner ones for munching raw or in salads. Or the thicker ones for soups and stews.
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
Related to Set's post above - Lord of the Rings.
Okay, so it was a forerunner and had an interesting plot. The writing still dragged on and on and on for me. Thank goodness for the movies, because I couldn't bring myself to finish the book.
Posted by cleome45 on :
[snip]
quote:Originally posted by Fanfic Lady: ...Comeback Queen Kelly Clarkson's getting a lot of love in another thread here at the Anywhere Machine, and I still hate her with every cell in my body...
I was subjected to that wretched "California Girls" song, and one of her sorry-ass Xmas songs repeatedly over the last two weeks. So I'm with you. The other current diva who makes me want to punch a wall is Rihanna. Both of them just sound like egotistical empty suits incapable of doing anything even remotely interesting.
To be honest, I'm not crazy about that one mega-popular Adele song, either. She's got the vocal chops, I'll grant you, but Holy Hannah that song is paint-by-numbers dull dull dull!
[ June 10, 2012, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: cleome45 ]
Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
Thanks for the vote of solidarity, Cleome.
"California Girls" was actually by Katy Perry, but I hate her just as much as I hate Kelly Clarkson. I'm not aware of any Christmas songs by either one, so I guess I've been lucky not to hear it. :whew:
Regarding Adele, as much as I like her, I have to say I'm not crazy about "Someone Like You." I think "Rolling in the Deep" is much better. My best friend loves "Someone Like You," though -- it literally almost moved her to tears. Posted by NoLongerLegion on :
*delete*
[ December 21, 2011, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: gone ]
Posted by cleome45 on :
[snip]
quote:Originally posted by Fanfic Lady:
..."California Girls" was actually by Katy Perry, but I hate her just as much as I hate Kelly Clarkson. I'm not aware of any Christmas songs by either one, so I guess I've been lucky not to hear it. :whew:
[slaps forehead]
Sorry. (And so, another chance to be hip enough for the room slips through my fingers...)
[gets last beer out of the fridge]
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
Chinese food. Well, I don't loathe it, and there are some dishes I'd gobble up (most types of dim sum, birthday noodles, sweet and sour pork, steamed fish, lemon chicken), but sometimes I get tired of it because we eat at a Chinese restaurant for almost every special occasion.
Posted by Dave Hackett on :
quote:Originally posted by NoLongerLegion: The Legion of Super-Heroes. I know, this is a board for the fans of the book... and I used to be one, once upon a time. But I have recently realized that the last issue that I even Liked was durring the Post-ZeroHour era. I LOATHED the Threeboot, Hated the Retroboot and so far Detest the Retroboot 2.0 and it's gaggingly awful spin-off. The same goes for virtually every DC title.
I'm not sure that's much of a secret. Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Peanuts. Never did like that comic strip. I know, Shultz is an American treasure. Still don't like it.
Or mickey mouse for that matter. Bugs and the gang were much better...back when they could be funny. New looney toones show.....SUCKS! 'taint funny atoll.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
The new DC lineup, for the most part. There's about four books I really like, the rest are "meh" to "bye".
Posted by Dev - Em on :
The Rolling Stones. One of the supposed greatest (if not the for some people) rock and roll bands of all time.
I just do not get it. There's maybe a couple songs I can tolerate by them, and even those have been beat into the ground by movies and television.
Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
I don't get the Stones either, Dev. I think it was more a matter of them being in the right place at the right time than of them being especially talented. Jagger is particularly annoying -- a real bluesman would wipe the floor with him.
Posted by cleome45 on :
The Rolling Stones have three or four good albums mid-way through their careers, I think. But they're still way overexposed and overhyped. And there needs to be a stipulation that Martin Scorsese isn't allowed to get within 100' of "Gimme Shelter" or any other Stones song ever again.
Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
Martin Scorsese is also overexposed and overhyped. No wonder he likes the Stones so much. Posted by Dev - Em on :
Clap...clap...clap.
Fanfie...Thank you for saying that about Scorsese. I never got him either.
Okay, I have friends that would kill me for this one. Woody Allen.
I have never been able to watch any of his movies all the way through...and just do not see what the hype is all about. This has nothing to do with his personal life either...I felt this way long before he got all freaky with his...whatever the hell she was.
...and do not get me started on Spike Lee.
Posted by cleome45 on :
quote:Originally posted by Fanfic Lady: Martin Scorsese is also overexposed and overhyped. No wonder he likes the Stones so much.
I like him better when he's not making the same movie over and over again with only minor alterations.
So I think The Departed was a total waste of time. The fact that he used "Gimme Shelter" again was the next best thing to him just interrupting the film to announce, Yeah, it's all phoned in but I really do want an Oscar, okay?
[ May 03, 2012, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: cleome45 ]
Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
Oh, Cleome.
Dev, my parents are big Woody Allen fans, so I grew up reading his writings and watching his movies. I actually think most of the movies up to "Annie Hall" hold up pretty well, but then he got really self-important and contemptous of the mass audience AND his creepier side started to taint both his work and his private life. As for Spike Lee, he was self-important from the very start, and seems to have really barbaric views on sexuality.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Let's get REAL with it.
Kubrick.
Sure, a few *moments* of brilliance...not entire films mind you...(save perhaps Spartacus)....but c'mon. What's with the genius rep? Seriously.
Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
Wellllll...
I consider "The Shining" to be perhaps the most overrated horror movie of all time, with one of Jack Nicholson's most self-indulgent performances (and that's saying a lot.) I couldn't get past the first half-hour or so of "Full Metal Jacket" because it was so ridiculously over-the-top and cliched. I've avoided "2001" because my mother saw it on the big screen during its original run, and says she felt ripped off.
Posted by Dev - Em on :
snip...
quote:Originally posted by Fanfic Lady: ...with one of Jack Nicholson's most self-indulgent performances (and that's saying a lot.) .
Bwahahahahahahaha!!!!!
That is really saying a lot, since I think just about every performance he has done has been self indulgent.
Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
I think he gave some good ones before he won his first Oscar. It was all downhill from there.
Posted by cleome45 on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Let's get REAL with it.
Kubrick.
Sure, a few *moments* of brilliance...not entire films mind you...(save perhaps Spartacus)....but c'mon. What's with the genius rep? Seriously.
Honestly, Hollywood is such an incestuous old-boy club that it's easy for anyone (who's a White dude, at least) to come up with a few decent flourishes and tricks and be declared a genius. Seriously, they do a few mildly interesting things early on and get to dine out on that for the rest of their natural lives.
I remember being on a political board a few years back where one of the other women, a pretty scholarly type, nailed Kubrick to the wall for his pet mannerisms (and his customary marginalization of female characters-- let's face it: most "great" directors are guilty of that, too). Sweet Jeebus, you would've thought that she'd called for toddlers to be killed and grilled live on TV, the way some of the regulars were carrying on in the aftermath.
Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
Well said, Cleome.
There's a real coldness to even Kubrick's better films IMO, the coldness of a compulsive perfectionist.
That said, I have been known to compare the cartoon voice director Wally Burr (Transformers among many other shows) to Kubrick -- in both good and bad ways -- and he, I firmly believe, was a genius.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
The last five years of Nicolas Cage movies.
Posted by cleome45 on :
Cosmetics.
Temping in retail has reminded me once again of how intense my hatred for "female maintenance" really is.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[No]](graemlins/shake.gif)
![[shrug]](graemlins/shrug.gif)
And the constant local hype about them is annoying, as if there's no other musicians in town capable of doing interesting things. Ppphht.
![[LOL]](graemlins/lol.gif)
Just substitute "Jewish" for "Irish." ![[I Dunno]](graemlins/urk.gif)
![[Yes]](graemlins/nod.gif)
![[tease]](graemlins/tease.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Drool]](graemlins/drool.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Love]](graemlins/love.gif)
![[ROTFLMAO]](graemlins/rotflmao.gif)
![[Good]](graemlins/angel.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Hmmm?]](graemlins/hmmm.gif)
![[Evil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
The fact that he used "Gimme Shelter" again was the next best thing to him just interrupting the film to announce, Yeah, it's all phoned in but I really do want an Oscar, okay?