Okay, spoilers in the title thread so beware. I'll not be using the spoiler brackets.
Been hearing this rumor for a few weeks and it looks as if Warner Bros. has confirmed it. Heath Ledger will be playing the Joker in the sequel to Batman Begins, to be called The Dark Knight.
[ May 21, 2007, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: Lightning Lad ]
Posted by Star Boy on :
Heath Ledger? Not even being a fellow Australian can help me see that one. I've nothing particularly against the guy, but it seems an odd choice... Here's hoping Heath can pull it off!
And while Katie Holmes was pretty much a non-event for me in the first film, it'll be nice to see some continuity in the characters rather than seeing the same old tired subplot played out again in the sequel. That is: 1) Bats develops a relationship with a random female. 2) For no apparent reason he feels compelled to reveal his identity (Nicole Kidman's character, anyone?) 3) Said female disappears, never to be seen again. Personally, I suspect he always realises what he's done afterwards and drops them into a Bottomless Bat-Hole. Posted by Blue Battler on :
Sigh.
I'm so sick of the Joker ... I'd much rather see Catwoman!
Seriously, I'm so tired of the bad guys being these mass murderer types. How about someone who just wants to steal stuff?
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
The only good reason to bring back Katie Holmes would be to have the Joker kill her.
And were they also hinting that there will be a penguin? (Paul Giamatti?)
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Yeah, I haven't heard of confirmation on the Penquin yet but Giamatti may be cool enough to pull it off. And I do NOT want to see Catwoman again. The no-talent Berry ruined that character forever on film. I'd like to see something like Hush done. It more matches the mood set in the first film.
Who else thinks that the third film (the main cast of Bale, Caine and Oldman are contracted for three films) will be called The Dark Knight Returns?
Posted by Spellbinder on :
Hmmm... I think Heath will have to sell me on this one. I just can't see it. And Katie returns? Blech. Nothing personal, but she just doesn't have enough range to carry off a variety of roles. Everything I've seen her in has just felt like variations on Dawson's Creek. In Batman Begins, Joey Potter became an assistant DA.
Maybe they can get Suri to play Batgirl Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Well, I’m not sure if you guys heard these yet, but the other two major rumors that were going around with Ledger as Joker are:
- The Penguin played by Phillip Seymour Hoffman – man that would be great! A great actor that is really creepy, but able to pull off roles in a way that Danny Devito could only dream of. I think that could work. Personally, I’m not a big fan of the Penguin, but making him an arms dealer/gangster is probably the way to go. Your guys thoughts on Paul Giamatti are great though. He’s one of the best actors working right now.
- Harvey Dent played by Ryan Phillipe – this would be even better. Phillipe is a great actor that can pull off a variety or roles. He’s complicated and could really get into Harvey’s head and explore the character. He’s also very intense, and dark, and that would be great. Plus, I’d prefer Harvey be a character for awhile before he becomes Two-Face, so no Two-Face this time around, but give us a chance to explore him. It could also make for a great Katie/Harvey/Bruce love-triangle, and sets up an obvious person to fill the role of D.A. completely as his own if Katie is ever bumped off by the Joker. In the past ten years, Phillipe has made a name for himself in great little independent films, and I think is really talented.
As for Ledger as the Joker, I can see him pulling it off really well. Nicholson’s Joker was so great and so inspired that it has to be completely different. In fact, I’d say it has to be a lot darker and meaner even. There’s no way they could go to anyone as established as Jack this time around, b/c none of us would be able to see it. Heath is young, slightly below the radar until recently, and has just proven to the world that he can reach places acting-wise that very few can.
I also trust Christopher Nolan completely.
I can’t wait for Bale as Bruce, Caine as Alfred, Freeman as Lucius Fox and especially Oldman as Gordon again. They all nailed their roles. Freaking nailed them.
If they want to give Batman a new love interest, I’d prefer Talia over all the rest (or even Nocturna! ). I’d really rather hold off on Selina Kyle or Vicki Vale for a long while. Hell, I’ll take Silver St. Cloud Wayne’s analysis of Bat’s previous on-film relationships highlights just how poorly the past Batman films have grasped a Batman love affair. Even Batman One (Keaton/Nicholson), while undoubtedly the best of the Bat films, handled this very badly.
I also hope there’s no Robin for at least the sequel and then the third film of this line.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
I ready about the PSH/Penquin rumor today. He could do it but I think his role in M:I3 may taint future villain roles. Giamatti would just be perfect, to me. Anyone seen the ads for his new movie with Ed Norton, The Illusionist? Can't wait for it.
As for Phillipe as Dent. I had heard that was supposedly confirmed. At least as Dent not as Two-Face. Like Cobbie, I think he would be great as long as they don't jump right into Two-Face.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: - Harvey Dent played by Ryan Phillipe – this would be even better. Phillipe is a great actor that can pull off a variety or roles. He’s complicated and could really get into Harvey’s head and explore the character. He’s also very intense, and dark, and that would be great. Plus, I’d prefer Harvey be a character for awhile before he becomes Two-Face, so no Two-Face this time around, but give us a chance to explore him. It could also make for a great Katie/Harvey/Bruce love-triangle, and sets up an obvious person to fill the role of D.A. completely as his own if Katie is ever bumped off by the Joker. In the past ten years, Phillipe has made a name for himself in great little independent films, and I think is really talented.
Mind you I haven't seen Crash...but are we thinking of the same Ryan Phillipe? I guess I never liked the guy. I tend to think he acts the same in his films. Also he has almost this fake accent. Seen him in interviews and he seems to have a very high opinion of himself. Ofcourse it could just be jealousy...I think his wife is amazing in every way. Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Jorge, I also share the same jealousy over Reese
But I think Crash and probably the last few films I saw him in really showcased how far he's come from his 'Cruel Intentions' days. I also like that he, like Ledger, doesn't make 'hits', but makes films he believes in. Very similar to Bale or Giamatti, who IMO are examples of quintissential actors these days.
But just so I don't get overly excited--the speculation on Giamatti thus far has been exclusive to this thread here on LW, correct? I haven't seen any hints of this anywhere else.
I also hope they have great parts along the lines of Carmine Gigante and Rutger Haur's character again. Those guys took bit parts and turned them into textbook renditions of how an actor can completely own a part.
Posted by Spellbinder on :
I like Phillipe well enough... will have to see him in the role I guess. If nothing else, he's smokin' hot (although apparently he's no longer showing his bare butt in all his movies... what a waste)
Maybe they'll do the same thing they did the first time around: introduce Harvey Dent as one ethnicity, and then when Two-Face shows up he's something completely different. Maybe Ryan as Harvey Dent, and then Jackie Chan as Two-Face...
Posted by Spellbinder on :
Is it too early to introduce Dick Grayson? And if he was to appear, who could play him? I would definitely go younger than Chris O'Donnell. Do we have any really talented mid-teen actors out there?
Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
I think the first film series was trying to do the Harvey Dent first then Two-Face. Does anyone remember Billy Dee Williams in the first movie?
It would be cool to have Harvey in the sequel and then actually do the Two-Face story in the third movie.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
The third movie should have Two-Face and Talia al Ghul, thus making it a true trilogy, with each part connecting and progressing from the previous ones. A surprise return of Ra's (a la lazarus pit) could work great too.
If done right, it could be the be-all/end-all renditions of Joker, Penguin, Two-Face and Ra's Al Ghul, which is basically Batman's greatest foes discounting Catwoman (too soon after Halle) and Riddler (could another actor ever truly capture him again after Mr. Gorshin?).
But alas, I get ahead of myself Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
When I heard Harvey Dent rumors and an actor from "Crash" I thought Matt Dillon. He'd probably be a better choice, imo. I can see Philippe as Dent if they played up his vanity I guess, but I've never been impressed with him as an actor.
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
I thought the intent of the first movie was to lead into an arms race of sorts? This Batman (as well the other movie batmans) is pretty much a dim bulb with a technological head start and an as yet unseen complicent accountant skimming funds off of Wayne Enterprises.
Instead of the next "super criminal," be nice if they'd step out of the box they've put them selves in with these movies and show some creativity, show the detective side, show some intrigue.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
I read this a couple of places today. Anthony Michael Hall is joining the cast as a major, mystery character.
quote:"I signed a confidentiality agreement, and I can't say which part I'm playing because it affects the story," Hall told the Los Angeles Daily News. "I can't give away the suspense—it's a $200 million surprise, and I don't want to be the guy to ruin it."
What character could he be. We already have The Joker and Harvey Dent (as Two-Face, not sure yet). So are they already going the way of over-featuring the villains or is there some hero Hall can portray? Certainly not Robin.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
Hall will play the *REAL* Joker. Ledger is a red herring in the plot.
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3004: Hall will play the *REAL* Joker. Ledger is a red herring in the plot.
They won't pull that trick twice, surely...
Posted by rtvu2 on :
Apologies if someone else started a thread already, I can't find it.
Saw a Midnight showing. This is a damn good movie. Everyone is fantastic. Heath Leadger as Joker is so good. He just disappears into the role. Great action, really funny one liners and lots of tense moments. Aaron Eckhert as Harvey Dent/Two-Face is good but overshadowed by Joker.
Only negative is that the movie is over 2hours and 45 minutes long. Movie started at 12:02 and when the credits roled it was 2:45.
Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
I agree with you about Two-Face being overshadowed by the Joker. I was sure that Click Here For A Spoiler Two-face was to be the villian in the next movie. It was good that they used him here. It made perfect sense and wasn't a "let's throw two villians together" Poison Ivy/Mr. Freeze team-up
This is definitely a case of the sequel being even better that the first film.
It is a long film, but worth it. I know at one point I thought "OK that's the end", but it wasn't.
One gripe I heard after the film was Click Here For A Spoiler What happened to the Joker? Did he get arrested or what? Did Batman just leave him hanging?"
Not revealed in the movie but my thought Click Here For A Spoiler the detonators for the two ferry boats would have blown up the boat it was on. A real Joker twist. I loved the convict who goes "I'll do what you should have done 10 minutes ago" and then tosses the detonator out the window.
I will definitely be seeing this again in the theater.
Posted by Pov on :
quote:Originally posted by Quislet, Esq.: One gripe I heard after the film was Click Here For A Spoiler What happened to the Joker? Did he get arrested or what? Did Batman just leave him hanging?"
I heard Click Here For A Spoilerhe OD'd while waiting for a massage... Posted by MLLASH on :
So... who is Michael Anthony Hall's 200-Million dollar surprise character? Spoil away folks!
Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
Just check on IMDB. He wasn't any recognizable chatracter and I doubt he got 200 thousand.
Posted by Blacula on :
Anthony Michael Hall's super-surprise, top secret character was...
M A J O R
S P O I L E R S
... a reporter!
I've heard some people speculate that he could be Jack Ryder (aka the Creeper) but the names don't match and other than the fact that they're both reporters there's no connection.
His character does pop up here and there throughout the film though so maybe he just got a bit over-excited about having more than just a bit-part in such a major Hollywood film.
As for the film itself - EXCELLENT!!!
I thought the first one was only OK but this one blew me away. It's so much more than just a good comic-book movie. It's an exciting and intricately plotted, acted, directed, filmed, scored, everythinged movie in and of itself!
But what I mainly loved about it was that it was also a great Batman story.
There were great Batman scenes; Bruce Wayne scenes; Alfred and Lucius Fox scenes; tense, oppressive Gotham scenes as well as some awesome international intrigue and action in Hong Kong; 3(count 'em!) of Batman's best rogues (plus a nod to a more recent DCU one toward the end); crooked cops; powerful gangsters; more death-traps than you can shake a stick at; cool gadgets; even cooler vehicles; wicked twists and turns; some *amazing* action set-pieces... the list goes on and on.
I don't normally see a movie at the cinema more than once but I may just break that habit for this one.
Be warned though - this is a very DARK movie. So if you are hoping for something that's anything like the 60s show, or were thinking of taking young kids along, I'd recommend changing your mind.
[ July 22, 2008, 01:55 AM: Message edited by: Blacula ]
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
I was in the opening night crowd, after avoiding all press on the movie except for the news of Ledgers untimely death.
His Joker was absolutely psychotic and I can see how much he put into the performance.
The only little gripe I had was the length of the movie, like Quislet I thought the end had been reached twice before the real ending.
Posted by Kid Cobalt on :
I have a real lot to say, but I'll get to it later. Just saw it.
And yes, its better than the first one. It actually makes a case for best super-hero movie of all time. Better than Iron Man, better than Batman Begins, waaaaay better than the Spider-Mand and X-Men films. I'm just so impressed.
And its a very dark movie. Not really that happy. But Gordon shines, Lucius Fox shines, Maggie Gyllenhal does a far superior job than Katie Holmes, Michael Caine is great as always.
The real star here though? Aaron Eckhart as Harvey Dent. Yes, Heath Ledger was amazing (he really was). But wow...Aaron Eckhart...I could definitely call this an oscar worthy performance.
It was powerful, poignant, thought-provoking, and yet had action, comedy, tragedy and genuine super-hero fare and comic book granduer. It was amazing.
Posted by Kid Cobalt on :
PS - And Click Here For A Spoilerhow about that surprise death? What a great twist! Especially after the bait and switch earlier in the film, which I actually found a little distracting because I knew it just could not be. Posted by Lard Lad on :
I saw it last Saturday night...and I wanna see it again! Man, I loved this movie!!! I loved the surprises and the creative ways in which the Joker attempted to bring out the worst in human nature.
Like Des sez, though...this is really Harvey Dent's story, and I think Nolan told the absolute best version of Harvey's story in any format. Leaving out spoilers, I'd have to say the way his arc went was the absolute best way to tell the story of Two-Face. The parallels between him and Batman were just transcendent!
And the way the film ended--WOW! This movie didn't follow any formula for making super hero films AT ALL. It was very dark, unflinchingly so, even with a PG-13. I can see why they went with the "Dark Knight" title here.
The only caveat I have, and had with Begins, was Bale's Batman voice. It just sounded kinda silly. I know its consistent with descriptions in the comics, but I wish it were done less...exaggeratedly?
Posted by THE LABRADORIAN on :
i thought the movie was excellent, i love Bale's portrayal of Batman, but hate the voice. I think he also does a KICK ASS JOB of Bruce Wayne, far better then Keaton's version. The Joker, totally awesome, a different portrayal then Nicholson's, not necessarily better but still different. I thought the continuity of the two movies was well done and i loved Morgan Freeman's portrayal of Lucius Fox, he's awesome.
Posted by Kid Cobalt on :
I agree with Lardy: best portrayal of Harvey Dent in any story format EVER. And he's my favorite Bat-villain (*and* I'm a huge Batman fan).
Posted by Lard Lad on :
Unfortunately, if you've seen the movie, you know that it's too late for DC to tell Harvey's story as perfectly as the movie did. It's just...perfect!!!
Nicholson's Joker was more like the comic books. Ledger's was a totally different animal, one that fit very frightfully into Nolan's Bat universe, much like the takes on Scarecrow and Ra's al Ghul in the first film. I read a review that described Ledger's Joker as being more like the devil than a prankster, and I think that's a pretty good description. There was absolutely NO sign of the teen heartthrob from The Patriot or elsewhere--what an INCREDIBLE acting job! It was both thrilled to experience his take and saddened to know we won't get to see more from this actor who'd come so far.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
Okay, just saw it.
The good(amazing): Joker, Jim Gordon(!), Lucius, the Hong Kong scenes (i saw it in IMAX), many of the effects! The Harvey Dent story, and much more!
The not so good? Man, I thought Mary Jane wasn't all that attractive but Maggie no offense is not...well she's not Katie Holmes. No she's not ugly but in the Hollywood world she is...atleast for me. Her brother is prettier. D'oh!
Also some spots were a bit...well it's a hard line when they try really hard to be "realistic" but then aren't. I just thought "why didn't they just do this" like 10 times.
Overall it was really really good! Amazing! But maybe it was the excitement of seeing Iron Man on the big screen for the first time..I like shellhead better.
Posted by Kid Cobalt on :
Ledger's Jokers was so good that it makes it all the more tragic we won't ever get to see him go up against Bale as Batman again.
I would definitely not advocate the Joker coming back for say, the third film, but imagine some time down the road if Heath Ledger could have returned for a second Joker/Batman battle in a future Bat-movie. Its too bad we could never see that . Certainly, no actor would dare try to be the Joker after this performance. From Brokeback Mountain to Dark Knight, Ledger really churned out some impressive acting muscles.
Click Here For A SpoilerAnother part I thought very poignant was that it was really the corrupt cops (and Maroni) who ended up being the ones truly responsible for Harvey and Rachel's kidnapping and fates. Though the Joker was obviously involved, it underlines an important theme of the Bat-verse, IMO, that normal people, all of us, have the ability to unleash the greatest terror and tragedy. Posted by Pov on :
quote:Originally posted by Kid Cobalt: From Brokeback Mountain to Dark Knight
Brokebat Mountain?
Brokeback Batcave?
Posted by Lard Lad on :
***possible spoilers if you're good at reading between the lines***
I should also mention that a twist referred to obliquely in some of our posts was, I believe, a first in any movie of the superhero genre (sort of happened in an X-Men movie and in Daredevil, but not quite the same) and one I was really not expecting. It was quite effective and tragic and was really important to the movie in how it related to what I see as the definitive dichotomy that is at the movie's core.
It's really refreshing to see a superhero movie go so outside the box from the basic formula we've seen over and over again in these films.
Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
Some more random thoughts.
I thought Katie Holmes did a better job at playing Rachel Dawes than Maggie Gyllenhal (sp?).
I also don't like the Batman voice. I also don't like the outdoor scenes of Batman on a skyscraper (on both movies) Those scene make me feel that Batman is too small. I mean really, what is he going to see from atop a skyscraper like the Sears Tower and who can see him? My opinion it would have been better to have him on the roof of a smaller old style building that had a gargoyle or decorative top.
Posted by STU on :
I didn't like the Batman voice either. I know they did it like that to make him sound different from Bruce Wayne, and menacing, but I thought it just sounded a bit silly and made me want to giggle every time I heard it.
Posted by Not-So-Bad Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I agree with Lardy: best portrayal of Harvey Dent in any story format EVER. And he's my favorite Bat-villain (*and* I'm a huge Batman fan).
Enjoy it; I'll NEVER be able to see my favorite Batman villians in a movie.
I mean, what are the Chances of a Clock King/Killer Moth/ Mad Hatter team up? Posted by Pov on :
quote:Originally posted by STU: I didn't like the Batman voice either. I know they did it like that to make him sound different from Bruce Wayne, and menacing, but I thought it just sounded a bit silly and made me want to giggle every time I heard it.
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I agree with Lardy: best portrayal of Harvey Dent in any story format EVER. And he's my favorite Bat-villain (*and* I'm a huge Batman fan).
Enjoy it; I'll NEVER be able to see my favorite Batman villians in a movie.
I mean, what are the Chances of a Clock King/Killer Moth/ Mad Hatter team up?
<------------------another Killer Moth fan!
Posted by Blacula on :
<--------------- and one who *hates* Charaxes!
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
<-----------ditto!
Posted by Not-So-Bad Lad on :
Wow! This might be the biggest collection of Killer Moth fans in history Posted by STU on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: <------------------another Killer Moth fan![/QB]
quote:Originally posted by Blacula: <--------------- and one who *hates* Charaxes!
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: <-----------ditto!
<----------------- Just wanted to use an arrow too!
Posted by STU on :
quote:Originally posted by Pov:
quote:Originally posted by STU: I didn't like the Batman voice either. I know they did it like that to make him sound different from Bruce Wayne, and menacing, but I thought it just sounded a bit silly and made me want to giggle every time I heard it.
(The actors in that video actually do a really good job impersonating Heath Ledger and Christian Bale...)
Posted by Blue Battler on :
I saw Dark Knight yesterday while waiting on Best Buy to prep my new laptop. (They were going to Optimize Vista for me.) I HATE Vista....
That aside, I thought Heath Ledger did a good job but that the Joker doesn't really fit the mood of the Batman Begins universe ... at least not to me.
Posted by Sketch Lad on :
Oh yeah, I forgot to post here when I saw the movie on July 23rd.
I loved it. As usual, the Joker steals the show. (Okay, two for two.)
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
Sketch- that was the theme of the Batman panel in San Diego. It was dominated by Joker-love.
I liked the movie, and there are lots of people interested in seeing it. It just broke another record. 400 million!
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
Just saw it.
As in the first picture, I'm not a fan of this director's style of quick cutting and severe close-ups on the actions so that would play into my POV.
I enjoyed the first movie more on a small screen so maybe the same here...
I was really skeptical about Ledger, particularly all the play after he died. blah blah. It was just about amazing and not all credit goes Ledger's way. The story given him was great. One problem I see, somehow a backstory would need be created that justifies Joker's insight into the Human Condition but, well, who were the OTHER Hanibel Lectors? Getting a name to play Joker will be tough.
Things I loved: Joker at the hospital. About everything with Harvey Dent, Alfred and Lucious. The Hong Kong flyover. The way the ferry scene played out, very much making Batman's point that its the regular guy that's the hero. Great lines. Just everything about that scene I enjoyed except the follow on dialogue between Batman and the upside down Joker got real long for me.
Things I hated: Up until the interrogation, I actually yawned a few times and giggled when Bats talked. Hope they come up with a reason to moderate that, like Alfred telling him he sounds like a dweeb or something. That'd be something Alfred would say.
0 for two on Rachel Dawes. Gyllenhaal ... I don't know. I heard the words but didn't feel emotion. It just wasn't acted to me. It was read. I cheered to myself at her demise. Wished it had been a bit more on-camera.
After the Batman-Joker interrogation scene they left the cop in the cell, an as far as the audience knows, a regular cop, inside the cell with Joker. And the guy with the belly-ache. Who didn't see the next scene coming? There were several other suspension of intelligence (as opposed to belief) scenes but that illustrates my view.
Pretty much a yawner for me.
[ August 05, 2008, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Blockade Boy ]
Posted by Lard Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy: Pretty much a yawner for me.
A yawner? It seemed from your post that you like more than you didn't.
That's cool, though. I loved it but don't expect every single other person to. Friend of mine wasn't too wowed either.
I thought possibly the most amazing things were that it didn't really seem to follow the traditional SH movie formula and its complex examination of morality. Honestly, the latter made it feel more like a great Scorsese movie, and that's a compliment!
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
and since I'm spilling my guts...
Too much Chicago. It's Gotham. Movie's are usually better at disguising but this was so clearly Chicago it was distracting (to me).
quote:Originally posted by Lard Lad:
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy: Pretty much a yawner for me.
A yawner? It seemed from your post that you like more than you didn't. ...I thought possibly the most amazing things were that it didn't really seem to follow the traditional SH movie formula and its complex examination of morality. Honestly, the latter made it feel more like a great Scorsese movie, and that's a compliment!
Relative merits sort of thing. I just tried to emphasize the things I liked.
The few scenes and characters and even the plotline I loved did not weigh as much to me as the storytelling, which I did not like.
While I wouldn't agree that the examination of morality was all that unique for a comic or comic movie I would agree it was a well chosen topic.
But IMO it wasn't told well (meaning, not to my tastes).
I felt the point shoved down my throat with superfluous and overly long dialogue instead of economy of imagery and the already present actions of the characters. Also as I mentioned, I don't care for this director's use of close-ups and quick cuts to display action and really, people weren't lining up to listen to Bruce and Rachel talk. It's the search for action getting them in the door.
So given that neither the storytelling nor most of the actions sequences appealed to me, probably makes sense the movie kept losing my attention.
[ August 05, 2008, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: Blockade Boy ]
Posted by STU on :
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy: Too much Chicago. It's Gotham. Movie's are usually better at disguising but this was so clearly Chicago it was distracting (to me).
It was the gratuitous Oprah Winfrey cameo that put it over the top for me.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Wow, I thought that was just another clown-masked Joker henchman!
(ZING!)
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy: I felt the point shoved down my throat with superfluous and overly long dialogue instead of economy of imagery and the already present actions of the characters.
This was my main gripe with the movie as well. When Lucius or Alfred got chatty, it was fine. But when Comissioner Gordon or the Joker started *explaining everything to me,* I got annoyed. I want to *see* a movie, not have a script read to me complete with the director (disguised as Comissioner Gordon) explaining to me what the scene I just saw was supposed to mean.
It felt heavy-handed.
I'm in that 'Blade Runner' place, where I wonder if seeing a director's cut *without* voice-over commentary or speechifying might result in a movie that I like better...
Posted by He Who LSHes on :
Thanks to TNT airing this movie, I've finally gotten to see most of it three times over the last few days. (Yes, I'm behind the curve in my movie watching!)
It truly is a remarkable film, and one that needs to be watched multiple times to pick up subtleties and missed pieces of dialogue. The showdown with the Joker and his minions/hostages at the end seemed incomprehensible to me on first viewing, but now I think it's brilliant. It's also a movie that's sucked me in every time I've watched it. As someone who generally doesn't like watching films more than once, that's saying something.
Heath Ledger deserves all of the postmortem accolades he received as the Joker. But Aaron Eckart also shines as Dent/Two-Face. I disagree that Eckhart's performance is overshadowed by Ledger's. In his own way, Eckhart won over my sympathy and respect as a public D.A. who tried to do what Batman did in secret. Dent's downfall is tragic and horrifying. I agree completely with Chief: This is the best Two-Face depiction I've ever seen.
My favorite scene, by the way, comes before Harvey is scarred. When he "interrogates" the Joker's henchman--the one he kidnapped in the ambulance--he uses his two-headed coin to determine the thug's fate in an eerie foreshadowing of his Two-Face persona: "Heads you win, tails you die." Has Harvey gotten unbalanced already? Is he turning to the dark side so soon?
But we don't find out until later that it's a two-headed coin, so the thug was in no real danger. Eckhart's acting--and Batman's interference ("If the public sees you now, all the good you've done will be undone")--made Dent's flirtation with evil all the more real. (Of course, Harvey did cross the line by kidnapping the thug in the first place . . . )
(Second favorite scene: Morgan Freeman's Lucius Fox talking down the greedy lawyer: "Let me get this straight: you think your client, one of the wealthiest men in the world, spends his nights as a costumed vigilante beating criminals to a pulp with his bare hands, and you want to blackmail him? Good luck.")
I also like Batman's voice--and everything else about Christian Bale's performance. I think he's the first actor to wear the Bat costume and convincingly portray a personality for Batman that's distinct from his Bruce Wayne personality.
There's so much to write about in this film . . . but I wanted to ask those of you who posted above (and even if you didn't), have your thoughts on the film changed since it came out?
Posted by Chief Lardy on :
You know what? I'm not as enamored of it as I was when I first saw it. It's not that it suddenly became a bad movie or anything--it's still great. It's really hard to nail down. I suppose part of it is that the first time it was so shocking and surprising and we had the spotlight on Heath in the aftermath of his death. Now, well, you know what's coming, and some of the Joker's rants start to grate a little. Also, the action and music get a little dizzying and annoying on rewatches, especially the "radar" effect and that buzzy music that's played while the Joker's hanging upside down. It's hard to explain.
I still love every bit of Harvey's arc and how it works metaphorically with Batman's. But Batman and Bruce get a bit of a short shrift here compared to Begins. I think the journey Bruce goes through in Begins is utterly fascinating. Here, it's more about the Joker's plot and Harvey's tragedy. Both are good, but I miss the focus on Bruce.
All of which leads me toward favoring Begins a little over DK in my mind. Another thing that bugged me about DK is that they seem to abandon the city layout and distinctive fictional landmarks from Begins inexplicably. In DK, we're suddenly more literally Chicago instead of Gotham. Why in the world would that sense of setting be totally dropped when we have essentially the same creative team back?
Again, I still love DK, but not as thoroughly or rapturously as I did two and a half years ago. Interested to see how others' perceptions have changed either way (if at all) in the interim.
Posted by He Who LSHes on :
quote:Originally posted by Chief Lardy:
I still love every bit of Harvey's arc and how it works metaphorically with Batman's. But Batman and Bruce get a bit of a short shrift here compared to Begins. I think the journey Bruce goes through in Begins is utterly fascinating. Here, it's more about the Joker's plot and Harvey's tragedy. Both are good, but I miss the focus on Bruce.
Funny, I was thinking that Bruce/Batman had more screen time, or perhaps more quality screen time, than in most films. His conversations with Alfred, his grief over Rachel, his admiration of Harvey, his collaboration with Gordon . . . if anything DK feels like an ensemble cast with Bruce/Batman in the center.
It's been at least a year since I saw Batman Begins. My lasting impression of it was that it was better than I expected (I groooooaaaaannned when I learned they were making yet another Batman movie), but I had no desire to see it again.
Posted by He Who LSHes on :
And just to respond to some other long-ago comments:
quote:Originally posted by Ultra Jorge:
The not so good? Man, I thought Mary Jane wasn't all that attractive but Maggie no offense is not...well she's not Katie Holmes. No she's not ugly but in the Hollywood world she is...atleast for me. Her brother is prettier. D'oh!
Ah, beauty is in the eye of the beholder! Maggie Gyllenhaal was outstanding as Rachel, I thought. She may not look "Hollywood", but she's thoroughly credible as an assistant D.A. and as someone both Bruce and Harvey would fall in love with.
Her death scene is both heart-breaking and oddly reassuring: she accepts her fate knowing the man she's chosen is safe. (Oh, if only she really knew . . . )
Rachel, I think, represents that last ray of honest truth in Gotham City. She's the only major character (at least in the scenes I've seen) who never deceives anyone. True, Bruce thinks she's waiting for him, but she never actually tells him this. She tries to tell him the truth (via her letter), but, after her death, Alfred destroys the letter (deceiving Bruce to spare his feelings).
Gyllenhaal pulls it off in a sweet, sincere manner.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
Just saw The Dark Knight Rises.
I actually wasn't planning on seeing it at all (I still haven't seen The Amazing Spider-Man), but the news of the tragedy in Colorado got me to thinking this is important to me: the film, the franchise, the character, super-heroes in general, and I refuse to let some nutjob (excuse me, disturbed person) take those things away from me. Whatever Mr. Holmes's motives were, the darkness of his acts should not dissuade us from seeing the film.
I'm glad I saw it. Thematically, all three Dark Knight movies have been about fighting the darkness in the human spirit, of keeping hope against hopeless odds, and of finding something worth fighting for. The third film in the trilogy delivers on those themes, which I think carries the films more so than all the explosions and violence.
One of the challenges of making super-hero sequels is that the stakes must constantly be raised . . . and how do you raise the stakes from what the Joker tried to do in The Dark Knight Returns? There comes a point where cartoon violence and comic book battles become so far fetched they strain belief. There's some of that in Rises, but, mercifully, the focus is kept more on Bruce Wayne and his fragile hold on his relationships, particularly his relationship with Gotham, the city he loves. But, not to be outdone, we've got plenty of drama going on with Alfred, Commissioner Gordon, and, for those who haven't seen the trailers or the film,
Click Here For A SpoilerSelina Kyle.
It would be tough to top Heath Ledger's Joker, but Bane is a more than worthy successor. He comes off as a charismatic philosopher of what he calls "necessary evil." It's hard to project charisma when half your face is hidden by a Darth Vader-like mask, but he pulls it off.
There are also the usual Easter eggs and cameos that make comic book fans gush. I loved seeing
Click Here For A Spoilerthe Scarecrow as the judge,
for example, and
Click Here For A SpoilerGordon learning Batman's identity at the end,
not to mention
Click Here For A Spoilerthe revelation of Det. John Blake's true name. (Hey, if you want more info, go see the film.)
All in all, The Dark Knight is three hours well spent.
Posted by Set on :
I wasn't going to see it, figured I'd wait to watch it on Xfinity or whatever, but a friend I hadn't seen for awhile wanted to get together and see it.
Bane needed a warm glass of shut-the-hell-up already. What a chatty Cathy!
The contrast between his mask, which covered mostly his mouth/jaw, and Batman's mask, which covers everything but his mouth/jaw, seemed deliberate, but I'm not sure what it meant symbolically (if anything).
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
Tom Hardy seemed to be channeling Marlon Brando in Apocalypse Now for his portrayal of Bane. I could see Bane as the same sort of quasi-religious zealot leader who inspires both fear and awe in his followers. (At the beginning of the film, Bane convinces one of his lackeys to stay in the plane that's about to crash.) Talking a lot seemed to fit into his demagoguery.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
BTW, I just watched the beginning of Batman Begins, which I'd never seen before.
Good movie, as are the other two, but slow and plodding. Somewhere around the climax on the monorail, the story loses my attention.
BB seems to be two movies thrown together as one--a feature of both of the other two films, as well, but less successful here. The whole Ra's al Ghul arc feels like it belongs in a different movie.
Posted by Lard Lad on :
Just saw it today. I definitely found it a worthy conclusion to the best set of films ever made in the superhero genre.
I'm not gonna say a lot because I'm still processing it, but I can't really understand why all of the pre-hype has been setting it up as a bad film whose poor quality is being covered up. It's not a perfect film, but it was a perfectly entertaining and involving experience. And I didn't really see all the gaping plot holes others are reporting.
Great, great trilogy. Whoever picks up the Batman baton from Nolan has a hard race to run!
Posted by Set on :
My favorite parts of the trilogy, thus far, come from the snarky comments from Alfred and / or Lucius.
Alfred - "Well, it's a good thing you left all your worldly possessions to someone you can trust. Do fill up my car after you borrow it..."
Lucius - "So you believe that one of the world's richest and most powerful men likes to dress up in body armor and beat people up at night, and you want to blackmail him? Good luck with that."
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
Yes, Caine and Freeman are outstanding.
I think that's why the ending of "Rises" works so well for me. It features Cain's considerable strengths as an actor.
Freeman serves a similar but more subdued role in the first film: "Didn't you get the memo?"
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Just saw it.
Hmmm.
Not a bad movie by any means. But... it was a very.... heavy movie. Pretty much like a seven course meal. It could have been a bit more mcdonalds, to be honest, but thats the difference between DC and Marvel. DC is good, expensive, heavy food that leaves you overstuffed. Marvel is a meal you forget after five minutes.
Rises was a good end to the Nolan series. And it combines a large part of the newer batman mythology. I wasn't surprised by the hook, too many years of reading batman, lol. But it was a decent twist.
all in all...a visually great movie, but a bit of a plodder. I think Bale was on downers the entire time. that's it. The movie was so heavy it had zero pop or zip, even in the moments it should have. Other than that, not bad.
Posted by Kent Shakespeare on :
just saw it. quite good, a nice conclusion to the trilogy.
Loved AH as Selina. The story struck a tight balance between remaining the out-for-her-self survivor and the reluctant heroine; he betrayal was good in prolonging he balance. But given the stakes, we all knew she would come around.
with my sense of humor, though as he is flying out to sea, Adam West's voice popped up in my head. "Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb!"
Great job by the cast. I knew of Bane but not much about him; he was from an era where reading the Batman comics seemed pointless. Given that they never had time to have Talia caught between Bats and Ra's, this version of her made sense.
Posted by Blacula on :
Just saw the latest Batman movie. Really liked it. Perhaps not as good as The Dark Knight but much better than Batman Begins which, like HWW, I found to be way too slow and disjointed - totally agree with him about the 'two different movies grafted together' feel to it.
There was a LOT going on in this latest one but it all held together and I was engrossed the whole time.
I LOVED Ann Hathaway and 'Catwoman' (in everything but name). I find the character a bit over-used and boring in the comics but I thought she shone here. And the costume looked hot!
I really liked the John Blake character too and I was hope, hope, hoping that he would
Click Here For A Spoilerbe Robin by the end of the movie.
So I was super-pleased by that development.
It was a lot of fun seeing
Click Here For A SpoilerScarecrow and R'as al Ghul
again, as well as
Click Here For A SpoilerTalia
though anyone who's read the comics could see that twist coming from a mile away.
Bane was OK but seemed weirdly under-developed compared to most of the other villains in this franchise, even though we saw his origin.
Click Here For A SpoilerOr did we?
I found his voice annoying though and struggled to understand him more than a couple of times.
I did absolutely HATE one thing about this movie though. It was something I hated in the previous two too but it it just hit stratospheric heights of unbearability for me in this one. And that's Michael Caine's acting as Alfred. Could he have possibly been ANY more hammy and over-the-top and over-emoting for the people in the back rows of the theatre than he was in this movie? Every one of his lines was delivered like he was just on the verge of bursting into tears - it was all so cloying and sickening; I seriously wanted Bane to just pop up and shoot him every time he opened his mouth to give one of his dour, please-give-me-another-Oscar, scenery-chewing speeches. THANK GOD he disappeared for the whole last half of the movie.
Too tired to write more now but it's a shame that this seems to be the last film in the Nolan universe, as the status quo at the end of the movie is one that I would have really liked to see presented more on the big screen.
Posted by Dev - Em on :
Well, being late to the party I think actually helped when finally saw the movie today.
I really enjoyed it. It was a terrific send off to the series.
I like that there are threads left wide open at the end, while still providing a definitive finale.
Gary Oldman did another fantastic performance as Gordon. I like that they never had him just sitting around doing nothing but talking to Batman or the police.
Anne Hathaway did a splendid job as Selina Kyle (the Cat-burgler). Adding tot he already impressive list of actresses that have portrayed this character over the years. Like someone above said, she walked that fine line between hero/villain very well.
Tom Hardy was good with what he had to work with. By that I mean the lack of the use of half his face to convey emotion was not that much of a distraction to me.
The others in the movie did a great job as well.
This trilogy is a great testament of what super hero movies can accomplish. Much better as a whole than its separate parts.
As far as Christian Bale goes. He did a good job throughout the series. I had a problem with the 'voice' thing in the beginning...but thinking about it over the years, I understand why they did it, or at least why I think they did it. So that things like the ending here would be possible...
Posted by Power Boy on :
Finally saw it.
Was a whole lot better than I thought. At times some things were a bit unbelievable ... even in a movie with a guy dressed as a bat ... and it comes off much like the other super hero movies, as a violent Disney movie but ...
It was still great. I'm watching it twice. Anne Hathawy's portrayal of Catwoman was the highlight for me ... I love her bruce Timm look, he agile fight scenes and Anne Hathaway's ability to change personalities. She certainly got the best lines and the comedic relief of the movie.
I enjoyed the Drive soundtrack as well.
Was really disappointed we got to see so little of Tom Hardy, what a waste of an actor! and his Bane voice was almost as dorky as Christian Bale's Batman whisper.
2 hours and 44 minutes seemed just right.
Oh and Jospeh Gordon Levit can do no wrong.
I wish they had made Batman a bit older, I didn't buy Christian Bale as a tired, worn out, or busted anything.
My favorite of the recent comic book movies BY FAR!
I may finally rent the last Batman movie now!
Posted by Power Boy on :
... and I was really against Anne Hathaway as Catwoman BEFORE I saw it. (no fan of her here) She was fantastic!
Posted by Power Boy on :
Some scenes between Michale Caine and Christian Bale were obviously filmed separately which is total shame, they did a good job of acting to the air on film but it could've been so much better with them in scene together ... because those were the big emotional points of the movie.
Posted by Power Boy on :
I can't help but think ... if only Catwoman would've rescued Batman a minute earlier ...
she could've taken down Click Here For A Spoiler talia ... bane ... rescued Batman ... and ended the movie 30-40 minutes early ha ha Posted by Power Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy: Too much Chicago. It's Gotham. Movie's are usually better at disguising but this was so clearly Chicago it was distracting (to me).
That's funny, I kept thinking that The Dark Knight Rises was obviously filmed in LA. (except for the aerial scenes of course ... actually some of them ARE LA too ... I recognize the buildings!). Which makes me kind of sad because it happens ALL the time ... these big city scenes filmed in LA ... meant to be New York ... and people have this impression of LA as all suburban. I wish they would make more city movies shot in LA actually set in LA.
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
snore: Almost nothing about it seemed interesting to me. Enjoyed most of the first two but this one? Punches were in slow motion. Car chases were in slow motion. Didn't seem to matter who was talking. It was five words, pause. Five words, pause.... And quite honestly I felt they waited much too long to get to the point and I wasn't impressed with how that was pulled off. The ending was projected.
After an hour of it, I just kind of put it in the background and played solitaire.
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Power Boy:
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy: Too much Chicago. It's Gotham. Movie's are usually better at disguising but this was so clearly Chicago it was distracting (to me).
That's funny, I kept thinking that The Dark Knight Rises was obviously filmed in LA. (except for the aerial scenes of course ... actually some of them ARE LA too ... I recognize the buildings!). Which makes me kind of sad because it happens ALL the time ... these big city scenes filmed in LA ... meant to be New York ... and people have this impression of LA as all suburban. I wish they would make more city movies shot in LA actually set in LA.
That quote was from the previous movie. For this one, Pittsburgh was in there but I imagine that was all filmed separately as it was mostly scenes around the stadium.
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. Certainly, no actor would dare try to be the Joker after this performance. From Brokeback Mountain to Dark Knight, Ledger really churned out some impressive acting muscles.![[LOL]](graemlins/lol.gif)