posted
Has either side of the aisle stated they want an increase in immigrants or are you refering to the debate of how to deal with the "undocumented" workers?
The poor are the least educated. Undocumented workers are mostly both, but I don't think either side wins points with the majority of citizens in fast tracking citizenship. The liberals will alienate blacks, who see hispanics as a danger to their politcal power as the major minority, heh. However, where can they go? Not going to be a major migration of African-American votes over to the Pubs.
The Pubs on the other hand win almost nothing by fast tracking citizenship, unless they happen to be a pub living in the counties that would gain the HUGE influx of votes.
A population of 10 million new citizens, mostly not inculcated. Just a small change in demographic in a community can change that community's politics. A small change in a state's demographics can send the whole kit and caboodle of electoral college votes a completely different way!
Poor tend to vote democratic. The democrats have had the majority like forever yet can't win elections. They are begging for this influx. It won't cost them the African-American vote, yet will buy them Florida, California, and probably Texas is every federal vote and possibly even state.
From: East Toledo | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I was referring to the undocumented workers. Personally I think it should all be legal. I am the son of immigrants and they came over legally. My family integrated and became citizens.
I am suspicious why Bush wants these immigrants. I can guess the democrats want more vote. (though hispanics while poor also are conservatives due to things like religion, etc.)
From: Tampa | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ultra Jorge: I was referring to the undocumented workers. Personally I think it should all be legal. I am the son of immigrants and they came over legally. My family integrated and became citizens.
I am suspicious why Bush wants these immigrants. I can guess the democrats want more vote. (though hispanics while poor also are conservatives due to things like religion, etc.)
I always thought it was pretty simple. You get a huge slave workforce of powerless and marginalised immigrants who recieve no voting rights, adequate social services, or other basic human rights. So you get the job done so your valuable and precious citizens don't get their nails broken, and don't waste money on social services for those 'dirty foreigners'.
posted
Blockade's scenario ignores the fact that the electoral college has been replaced by institutionalized fraud, so voter will is irrelevant.
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 2003
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Bush also wants to help the poor people of India by giving them more jobs. Yet it seems to help American rich guys.
From: Tampa | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: People like this make me consider betraying the human race to an evil invading alien race, should such an alien race ever visit Earth!
The moment Our Robot Superiors rise up, I'm selling out...
-------------------- My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
Bah! You can keep your aliens and robots, I'm betraying you guys to the underground lizard people!
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Underground lizard people? Don't be silly! I'm waiting for the Second Coming ... of Elvis!
Elvis will put GWB in Heartbreak Hotel.
Elvis will make VP Cheney do the Jailhouse Rock.
Elvis will quell all the Suspicious Minds and love them tender. Elvis will mark all the nasty newspapers "Return to Sender."
Elvis will clean up the problems In the Ghetto. Elvis will exercise his power of veto. Elvis will appoint as ambassador Danny DeVito.
Elvis is everywhere!
(Hey, they don't call him the King for nothin'.)
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
quote:Originally posted by Ultra Jorge: I was referring to the undocumented workers. Personally I think it should all be legal. I am the son of immigrants and they came over legally. My family integrated and became citizens.
I think what bugs me the most about the current state of the debate is that a lot of Americans aren't really differentiating between legal and illegal immigration. They're just "anti-immigrants".
I think a lot of problems would be solved if we made legal immigration less of a hassle. As far as I'm concerned, the freer the migration of people, the better.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Ultra Jorge: I was referring to the undocumented workers. Personally I think it should all be legal. I am the son of immigrants and they came over legally. My family integrated and became citizens.
I think what bugs me the most about the current state of the debate is that a lot of Americans aren't really differentiating between legal and illegal immigration. They're just "anti-immigrants".
In a country of 250 mill, any opinion is supported by "a lot" but by the percentages, I just do not get the feeling there is a high percentage of people wanting to close the borders. No stats, surveys or figures to back up my statement. I'm just stating my thin slice-of-life exposure as a white-collar living and working in low income entry-point neighborhood.
I feel that most just want some order to things. They want laws followed. There is concern (mostly unfounded I believe) of loss of middle income jobs to undocumented and only somewhat to legal immigrants. There are concerns (IMO justified) about high rates of immigration. "Anti-immigration" as in "close-the-borders?" I still feel that is the anecdote, not the trend.
I do know of debate on whether in the present, liberal immigration policies would actually be more harmful both to the US as well the source countries.
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: [QUOTE]I think a lot of problems would be solved if we made legal immigration less of a hassle. As far as I'm concerned, the freer the migration of people, the better.
Diamond in "Guns, Germs and Steel," a popular treatise describing the wherefores and whatnots of why certain areas of the world developed moreso than others makes a good case that the reason behind US strength isn't because of superior culture but because of superior natural resource to population ratio. The US has also benefitted much by the skills it imports.
Our present declining resource to population ratio and economics have to be considered in this argument don't they? 250 million people with dwindling resources versus 100 million and more natural resources than we knew what to do with (WWI and WWII eras), can we hold they same policy on immigration?
If the goal is third world development, does it make sense to make an easy road to citizenship for those who state they come here to earn money to send home, where it has higher buying power?
Should we continually import the best and the brightest of the third-world and retain them here or should we make more educational resources available to present citizens and educate third-world citizens and send them home where they can do the more good?
If we fast track citizenship then isn't it likely to curtail the income sent to the home country and also remove a source of lower income labor that keeps our prices down? Wouldn't we then import more guest workers to replace those we made citizen, only to have the new guest workers also insist on citizenship? What a cycle?
The need IMO is to fast track documentation, not citizenship. This permits those that are here illegally to get a free pass this time and opportunity to go home legally.
[ July 15, 2007, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: Blockade Boy ]
From: East Toledo | Registered: Jul 2003
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