posted
I've enjoyed the first two issues ... while I'm not sure how long they can (or are willing to) keep up the gimmick of the forest, so far it's made an interesting backdrop ... Hal and Ollie had some good moments (especially in the "Don't-call-it-the-Arrow-Cave") in issue 2, the ending of which
Click Here For A SpoilerOllie gets shot with an arrow in the forehead
may result in a quick reveal about the nature of the forest ...
-------------------- Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water...
From: The waters off eastern Long Island | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
What they made Green Arrow do in Cry Justice has put me off the character. I don't foresee ever reading Green Arrow again.
-------------------- Five billion years from now the Sun will go nova and obliterate the Earth. Don't sweat the small stuff!
From: Boston | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Quislet, Esq.: What they made Green Arrow do in Cry Justice has put me off the character. I don't foresee ever reading Green Arrow again.
Though I'm no fan of Cry for Justice, I would add that Ollie's being a killer is not without precedence. Mike Grell had him kill some baddies during his long run on the character beginning with The Longbow Hunters, and it's generally a well-regarded era for the character.
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I have not read Longbow Hunters. So I don't know the circumstances around those killings. Were they as premeditated as the murder of Prometheus or did they occur in the heat or immediate aftermath of battle?
More than the killing of Prometheus, it was having Green Arrow say "justice" right after. I screamed (in my mind) "That's not justice! That is revenge!"
-------------------- Five billion years from now the Sun will go nova and obliterate the Earth. Don't sweat the small stuff!
From: Boston | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Quislet, Esq.: I have not read Longbow Hunters. So I don't know the circumstances around those killings. Were they as premeditated as the murder of Prometheus or did they occur in the heat or immediate aftermath of battle?
More than the killing of Prometheus, it was having Green Arrow say "justice" right after. I screamed (in my mind) "That's not justice! That is revenge!"
Ollie has killed before, under Grell and Dixon. His hunt in Cry For Justice isn't that out of character, tho this particular killing was more premeditated.
The cover for issue #3, and Ollie's surviving an arrow to the head leads to learning the forest of Star City has healing powers. It does progress the story, so it's not totally misleading.
This new series chock full of navel gazing. The pacing is drawn out, too much of Ollie's inner monolouge is rehashed guilt. There's one more GA issue in my future- anything less than stellar and I drop the book.
I stop buying Green Arrow.
From: Denver, CO | Registered: May 2004
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posted
When CJ drops Green Arrow, you know the title sucks.
For me personally, I've got the ability to forget pretty quickly what other creators have done with characters. So while I hate "Cry for Justice" and was appalled by it, it wouldn't put me off Ollie permanently.
What I can't forgive is a really crappy story. And that was what this was. Bad pacing, non-stop guilt-brooding, an annoying Ollie/Hal confrontation, a girl on the verge of getting raped (DC sure loves its rapists--I suspect some of the editors must fantasize about this?), corrupt businessmen exploiting a broken down city, etc. It's a series of cliches with no real meat to it.
They are obviously trying to copy what Grell did before and it comes off as unoriginal. They are invoking Katrina-ridden New Orleans in a way that rather than being poignant, comes of as exploitation (or at the very least, are trying to invoke 1980's era Los Angeles which feels outdated).
There were a lot of criticisms of Winnick on Green Arrow, and many of them valid, but in my opinion, whatever he did, he always was able to make it stand on it's own. He was carving out his own era in GA history. This feels like aping the past and just not being good enough to pull it off.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Thing is, I'm not entirely clear whether the Grell-era Ollie Queen stories are still in continuity. The reaction Ollie got to killing Prometheus makes me think that it might not.
In any case I gave the first couple issues a flip-thru. Even though I like the art style, I could tell that this wasn't a real must-have. Online reviews have backed this up.
I SO want a good Ollie Queen book because he is one of my very most favorite DCU characters. It looks like I'm not getting one any time soon. Kevin Smith brought Ollie back with a bang, Brad Meltzer's arc was pretty decent and the early Winick issues were very good. But after Winick's first year, it quickly turned into a sea of "meh" at best. And even a new direction and creative team haven't bailed Ollie out.
Actually, on second thought, there is a terrific Green Arrow comic being published right now! It's called "Hawkeye and Mockingbird", and it's being published by Marvel!
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
The Grell penned GA is/isn't in continuity, more so than any pre-Crisis/IC histories. Under Grell, Ollie was more real world urban vigilante, a real Avenging Archer. When Dixon took over, it was mentioned Ollie had killed a man once before, and he retreated to an ashram to make peace with it. Dixon had Ollie kill a second time (mentioned in story) and ending up at the same ashram, this time by mistake. It led to meeting Connor and his eventual death.
Since GA:Reborn (see: Kevin Smith's QUIVER arc) his killings have not been mentioned, merely alluded to when a character, usually Dinah, wants to point out how dark Ollie's becoming. Said killings have always been spur of the moment, life v. death situations. His hunting of Prometheus shows more forethought, deliberation, and selfish revenge than true justice, almost the opposite of his previous breaches of that particular moral code.
I can see Ollie crossing the line. He uses a bow and arrow! He developed his skills as a hunter. Under Grell, Ollie would stalk the most vile criminals, make a hard decision to take a life, and move on. He didn't relish the choice, but didn't agonize over it either. Ollie would shed his guilt faster than a tear for the men he killed (not that many,) seeing his work as means to protect and serve. Simple man, simple motif, simple justice.
Krull has Oliver bemoaning his current lot in life- something he brought about all on his own by killing Prometheus and revealing his ID (scarcely secret tho it may be.) This isn't a hardened hero, a lone man seeking to save a world from corruption. This is a weak man, wallowing in self pity, avoiding his life rather than stepping up to be the hero he claims to be. Fine for an arc, but drag this out much longer, without a SERIOUS slap to the face by Speedy, and this becomes a sad tale of misplaced misery.
Krull brought energy to the Titans during his BL mini. His wrap up of the GA/BC series had the same level of energy, excitement, verve. This new series lacks all of that. Sadly, it's probably timed to pace itself with Brightest Day (good book on it's own) and that's where DC is going wrong.
If Ollie is going to distance himself from the rest of the DCU, then distance his book. If Krull is as good a writer as he's been, the book will do just fine. Stand or fall, let Green Arrow be Green Arrow.
[ September 02, 2010, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: CJ Taylor ]
From: Denver, CO | Registered: May 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Chief Taylor: Actually, on second thought, there is a terrific Green Arrow comic being published right now! It's called "Hawkeye and Mockingbird", and it's being published by Marvel!
Hawkeye is great! He's no GA. Ollie is a hunter, Clint an action junkie. Ollie is a vigilante, Cline a super hero. I want my GA stories to involve ethical quagmires, blacks and whites and grays grounded on a level we can all appreciate. Hawkeye should be an over the top adrenaline rush, colourful adventures played out on a scale we all dream of, scaring us as often as exciting us.
From: Denver, CO | Registered: May 2004
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