Well, I searched and searched and am shocked I could not find an Astro City thread on Legion World. I thought for sure there must be one, but I guess not. I’ve been collecting Astro City from inception to date, and I know so many others used to as well, but once things started getting delayed a few years ago and the material was more scarce over the years, I suspect many people simply stopped collecting. And that’s a shame. Because it was and still is one of the best things in comics.
I’ll start with something about Kurt Busiek: on LW I’ve noticed a good deal of discussion regarding Busiek is his Avengers run, which has mixed reviews here. I liked it but didn’t love it, personally. But I think its only a minor fraction of all the material he’s produced over the years and its unfair to judge him solely on that. I personally think he’s not only a great writer, but one of the best in comics in the last 15-20 years. He’s done a phenomenal job on a plethora of series, from Iron Man, which he probably did a better job on than anyone else in the last aforementioned (20) years, to Marvels, which was FANTASTIC—and no one can tell me otherwise. Still, much like Fallen Angel is probably PAD’s magnum opus, Busiek’s best work is his creator-owned project, Astro City.
Astro City is nothing short of phenomenal, and is “universe-building” at its very best, while incorporating two great themes: a commentary on the entire history of comic books and the trends that have gone on from the Golden Age to the present; and a commentary on American history, and the trends going on in pop-culture, politics, business, etc. in those same years. Each storyline he does reflects those two things very well. They are also all told from a common man’s perspective; he took the method he developed in Marvels and has continued to hone and perfect it over the years to really give a human story amidst a fantastic and grandiose setting. And he does it time and time again.
He’s been working on a longterm project called “The Dark Ages” which basically is a running commentary on the end of the Silver Age to the early 1980’s, what some people might call “the Bronze Age” (though I know that term is contested). There are several analogues to developing trends in that era, from a rebirth in horror, more urban vigilantes, heroes actually killing, even grandiose New Gods type characters; and he also gives a good overview about what life was like in the real 1970’s, which I luckily never had to live through. All along its been an excellent series, though its been slow in coming out. He’s gone about doing it in various chapters, and we’re now on chapter three, all of which takes place in 1982, which is bringing the Dark Ages to a close. And here’s he’s been able to go monthly with it, which helps. It also helps that this is probably the strongest showing of this particularly “Dark Ages” set of series. I read #1-#3 last night and was pleasantly surprised at how the quality has not wavered even a little. Two characters that too quite awhile to warm up to, Charles and Royal, have become characters I feel I really know, who I feel empathy for and care about. Whereas I before was looking forward to them finally having justice for their parent’s murder, I now desperately want them to be able to grow past it and finally find the dawning of a new era of their lives, just like the US began to when it emerged from the 70’s.
Busiek reminded me why his name has been praised for so many years. It might not be as much as it was about 10 years ago, but that has not stopped him from producing quality work that still matters.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Also, since I couldn't find an Astro City thread, please feel free to use this to discuss past stories or if you were collecting back when it was monthly. I'm curious as to who used to get this or still does.
Posted by Kent Shakespeare on :
I was following the 90s AC in trades.
I've lost track of more recent stuff, but I know there has been some.
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
I got some of the trades, but don't have them anymore. It was a really enjoyable series; you could just jump into it and not be confused about back stories and who was who. But It just fell off my radar.
Somebody else was praising the series recently (maybe the Comic Book Outsiders?) and now Cobie has reinforced my intention to pick up Astro City again.
We did have some discussion of Astro City here.
Posted by LardLad on :
I've loved Astro City ever since it was first being published. It's been plagued by delays for a long, long time. That fact has caused it to be tarnished in my eyes somewhat. For example, when I made my all-time top ten runs list over in the Roundtable, there was a time AC would've made the list with no problem, but the delays have caused it to drift off my radar a bit.
But I still love that series dearly. Some of it's stories, particularly the Steeljack and Confessor epics are and were classics. A lot of the short one- or two-fers have been excellent as well. Brent Anderson's art is just the perfect mixture of throwback and progressive styles. Alex Ross's character designs shine very brightly, and he seems to do his best covers for AC, IMO.
Dark Age has been enjoyable as well, but it's been hurt by the delays between books. I mean, yes, each arc is a somewhat self-contained part of the larger story. But waiting over four years now to see how everything plays out is a bit much. And to some degree, I feel 12 issues is a little much to devote to this narrative.
To me, what's best about Dark Age is not so much the story of Charles and Royal but all riffs/homages to classic comics concepts going on around them. Book Three, for example, features as primary antagonists a really fun and smart take on Marvel's S.H.I.E.L.D. and Hydra organizations.
Even better have been the one-shots that have been published between each Book of Dark Age! The Samaritan, Beautie and Supersonic one-shots have been absolutely golden! Currently, I'm really excited about the Astra two-parter that begins next month. Last we saw of her, she was an elementary schooler. Now, we'll get to see her graduating high school! I like that Astro City ages in real time (though Kurt tells lots of stories like Dark Age that explore AC's rich history), and this will be one of the bigger examples of that.
Apparently Book Four of Dark Age will be hot on the heels of the Astra specials, followed by AC returning to an ongoing! I'm cautiously optimistic about this actually happening!!!
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Glad you all read it and remembered it fondly. My personal favorite story is the one with the newspaper writer who witnesses an amazing night in Astro City but must publish his article as something mundane because he has nothing to back it up.
I'm kind of with Lardy--the delays almost killed my memory and enthusiasm for this book big time. In fact, this Dark Ages story dragging out so long was on the verge of simply being something I forgot to follow-up on. But that changed with the Beautie special, which really reminded me of how damn good Busiek can write sometimes. And now with Dark Ages coming out three months in a row--and me reading them in one sitting--I'm hooked again.
Those delays also made me miss the Supersonic one-shot which I had no idea existed until your above post, Lardy. I'll have to look for it now.
I didn't know about it returning to an ongoing though and that's great news! I also am now cautiously optimistic.
Posted by LardLad on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Those delays also made me miss the Supersonic one-shot which I had no idea existed until your above post, Lardy. I'll have to look for it now.
A quick search of an online back issue store I've bought from shows the Supersonic special came out in 2004. It was the first of the four specials that were meant to hold us over between Dark Age arcs, and all three that have been published so far have been breathtakingly good. This special shows the titular hero's struggle with just being too old to cut it anymore.
I hope you didn't miss the Samaritan Special as it was mainly about Samaritan's archfoe Infidel, a kind of Ra's al Ghul riff sort of but also incredibly original--possibly Kurt's best villain creation!
You've already spoken of the Beautie one-shot, which I also highly recommend. The last of the specials is the Astra special (mentioned above) which will be published in two parts beginning in September or October.
Honestly, Astro City is Busiek's masterwork, taking all the best things about Marvels in the context of his own universe. He's done some other good to great things, but nothing quite does it for me like his AC!
Posted by Blacula on :
Is this really the first Astro City thread on Legion World? Huh. It just doesn't seem possible somehow that with all the comics talk we've had here over the years, we've never talked about this book, arguably one of the best ever.
If so, then kudos to Cobie for finally correcting that wrong and giving it its own thread.
I got into Astro City late (somewhere around the end of the second series I think) but once I was in I was hooked. Spent beaucoup money buying up all the back-issues I'd missed, read and re-read all the issues I had to pick up the many nuances Busiek was using in his story-telling, as well as to spot and ponder the dozens and dozens of fantastic characters he'd created to populate this rich universe, and waited excitedly for each new issue to come out.
And waited... and waited...
And eventually I stopped buying.
I think I got as far as the Samaritan Special (which I believe came after Book 1 of The Dark Age). I never intended it to be a permanent break but (much like my promise to myself to buy a book in Trade that I'm not getting as a monthly) I just never get around to picking it up again in the shop.
It's such a fantastic series though and reading this thread has re-invigorated my desire to get back into it. I think my original plan when dropping it was to buy up everything I'd missed in bulk once The Dark Age had finished so that I'd be able to read the whole story in one sitting, rather than spread out over however many years it's been now. So has that story finished yet? Or do I still have to wait a while to get back into it?
As for a favourite story? Well, they're amost all completely flawless so it's an impossible task but the one that probably sticks with me the most is the amazing Steeljack/Mock Turtle/El Hombre mystery-saga. With the tragic El Hombre character being probably my favourite in the whole Astro City universe.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
The fourth and final part of the "The Dark Age" began this month and got off to a great start. While I can't wait for this never-ending story to finally end, I'm pleased that Busiek seems to have really returned to form for these last two legs of the story.
Busiek appears to be invoking "1984" specifically for this arc and it felt like it worked for me. 1984 was a great year for comics, right in the middle of perhaps the last truly magnificent age of comic books, and the way Astro City is going it feels like that universe is about to hit that level too here.
It seems like plans are still a go for gettig Astro City back to a monthly with rotating arcs of various size and I can't wait.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
A for Teeds to encourage her to reread Astro City! I think it might be time to reread myself. I haven't read the Confessor arc since it debuted and I still remember how blown away I was by it.
Posted by Dev Em on :
I stopped getting Astro City when finances fell through the floor. Back when Dark Age was starting. Maybe it's time to get back into it.
Posted by Dev Em on :
I love Astro City, and my favorite issue was the 1/2 issue (I think), about the man who is dreaming of a woman that he has never met...but in his dreams they are married and have a family. Very touching look at how those multi book epic events can affect the average regular joe.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
We're getting close to the end of the Dark Age now! I'm thrilled its almost over--even though as I said, I've come to really like Royal & Charles, I'm ready for their story to be finished. I'm looking forward to the Silver Agent 2-parter though!
I'm really pumped for Astro City again these days. I'd like to see it regain the momentum it once had and draw back in a lot of readers.
Posted by Pov on :
Ditto. This is still a really solid book. The more of it we get, the more regularly we get it, the better.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
Well, they intend to go monthly with it after a short break, so you'll get your wish.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Read the Silver Agent special #1 tonight and it was great! Even though the meat of the time travel story is coming in the next issue, I found the insight into the Silver Agent's origin, life story and character to be both awesome and moving. I've been fascinated by the character since his first appearance and this issue reminded me why I felt that way--he encompasses so much of the grandeur of the early Silver Age (thus, his name). There are parts Flash, Green Lantern, Captain America and the Silver Age Superman. The Legion of Super-Heroes analogue connection was a great touch.
I also found the culmination in his decision to be very moving, which is tough to pull off in one issue considering we still hardly knew the Agent before this issue.
This serves as an affirmation of what I felt over the last year: Astro City is back. Can't wait for the monthly.
Posted by Dev Em on :
I so need to catch up on this title...probably in trade form though. sigh...money, how I need thee...
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Really enjoyed the wrap-up to the Silver Agent 2-parter. At first I was beginning to feel like it'd be a letdown and then about mid-story (when he meets his nephew all grown up), the emotional impact hit me the way Kurt intended. And then the rest of the issue was just terrific, with a powerful ending. I think Busiek has finally found himself again.
The letter's page mentions this as kind of the end of Astro City "phase #1" and it felt that way. I know that like Busiek & Anderson, I'm ready for Astro City to enter phase #2, return as an ongoing series, and get back to telling some good (and shorter) stories again. Over the course of the last year, I've gradually been rebuilding my excitement for this comic book and I think with the end of the Silver Agent 2-parter, it is not completely restored.
Posted by Blacula on :
I'm way behind on this book. I think the last Astro City thing I bought might have been the Samaritan vs Pagan Special. That was at least 3 or 4 years ago (though at this title's pace that probably means I'm only about 5 or 6 issues behind ).
I need to catch up though. It really is a great title.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
It is.
I usually get a little wary when Busiek goes too cosmic, but this mini had most of what I look for in Astro City. I hope the recent Wildstorm issues don't pose too much of a delay in getting the AC monthly on the stands.
Posted by Chief Taylor on :
quote:Originally posted by Blacula: I'm way behind on this book. I think the last Astro City thing I bought might have been the Samaritan vs Pagan Special. That was at least 3 or 4 years ago (though at this title's pace that probably means I'm only about 5 or 6 issues behind ).
I need to catch up though. It really is a great title.
^To me, that Samaritan vs. Pagan special Blacula mentions is the absolute BEST Astro City story from the point that the Local Heroes mini (which was the first AC itself post-the ongoing ending) was launched to the present (thru the Silver Agent two-parter). That would make it roughly the best AC story of the past decade in my estimation. Last I'd heard, Cobie had never read that one yet. Did you ever get it, Des?
The runners-up, IMO, for the same era are the Beautie special and the Supersonic special. I like everything else Kurt has done with AC during the same period, but I'd take those three over the Astra and Silver Agent two-parters. I think both of those would've benefited from being sold as overside one-shots like those other three.
I can see how what has come to this point can be viewed as "phase 1", especially because of how the mystery of the Silver Agent has tied a lot of this era together. The two-parter finally resolved that after about two decades of build-up. But you could just as easily divide it into three: Image years, DC/Wildstorm years & Whatever's Next. Interestingly enough, Kurt and Brent did about an equal number of issues worth of AC stories in both of the first two eras.
I sure hope AC gets started back up soon, and all this Wildstorm dissolution nonsense won't hold it up too long. AC has historically had enough publication problems without that kind of crap popping up!
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
^I still haven't read the Samaritan one-shot! The praise you've given it, and Blacula too, means this is something I have to rectify. I'm going to the CBS tomorrow with my Dad, so I'll have to try to remind myself to hit up the back-issue bins to grab it once and for all. I'm not even sure how some of these specials slipped through the cracks in the first place since I've collected Astro City from the beginning.
Posted by Chief Taylor on :
Make sure you look for the Beautie and Supersonic one-shots as well if you don't have those. Assuming you have all of Local Heroes, you should be up to date once you possess all three one-shots.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I've got the Beautie one-shot, and absolutely loved it (one of the best stories I've read for Astro City) but I think the Supersonic one is the other one I'm missing. Besides Supersonic and Samaritan, I'm all caught up.
I swear...I can't remember how I ever stayed on top of the collection pre-Legion World.
Posted by Chief Taylor on :
That Beautie Special was amazing! The idea of a heroine who was an actual doll was pulled off really well. Like I said, IMO, that one was just behind the Samaritan special in how I'd rank the DC/WS-era AC stories. Kurt never really lost his ability to tell a great AC story, but its recent return to more regular publication has been most welcome and helped reinvigorate the enthusiasm among us AC faithful.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
The Beautie special was probably the first time in a long time where I suddenly felt like it was time for Astro City to resume it's place in my mind as a premiere comic book. These one-shots I think went a long way reinvigorating Kurt so he could finish the Dark Age on a strong note.
It was also one of the most original Astro City stories of them all. Thematically there were some nice nods to comic book history but for the most part, she as a character and the story itself were pretty unique, I thought.
When I read someone say Busiek is washed up, or even over-rated, I think the Beautie special stands as evidence those people are flat out wrong.
And now I REALLY need to get that Samaritan special, since you rank it even higher!
Posted by Chief Taylor on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: And now I REALLY need to get that Samaritan special, since you rank it even higher!
Keep in mind that all criticism is subjective, so it's possible that you might rank them differently. The Beautie special is fresher in my mind because I read it probably within the past year for the first time.
The Samaritan special I read once and longer ago. But it sticks out in my mind in how well Busiek nailed the villain point of view (I think he was called 'Infidel', not 'Pagan', Blacula, IIRC.)there and with kind of a unique flair. There were also some nice story twists that stick out in my mind.
Either way, I can't imagine anyone ranking any of the stories from Local Heroes-on above those two stories. I've reread everything pre-Local Heroes at least once or twice. Whenever the next wave of AC is imminent, I'll make a point to reread all the DC/WS Astro City to get some better perspective, especially considering how spread apart that stuff has been comparatively.
The only thing I can add is that as good as the Dark Ages was at times, it was too long (even if you don't factor in the publishing delays) and doesn't compare to the two previous extended storylines featuring the Confessor and Steeljack in overall quality, consistency and impact, IMO.
By and large, however, I tend to prefer the one-shots and shorter continued stories.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I've got the Beautie one-shot, and absolutely loved it (one of the best stories I've read for Astro City) but I think the Supersonic one is the other one I'm missing. Besides Supersonic and Samaritan, I'm all caught up.
I just re-read the Supersonic special a few days while reorganizing books, and it still holds up. Definitely a keeper.
I'll third the praise for the Beautie special. One of the best ever ACs. The best for me remains the 1/2 special with The Hanged Man, but this one is up there.
Posted by Chief Taylor on :
quote:Originally posted by Outdoor Miner: The best for me remains the 1/2 special with The Hanged Man, but this one is up there.
Oh yeah, as far as the entirety of Astro City is concerned, that one is definitely one of the very best to beat for sure!
What did you think of the Samaritan Special with Infidel, Miner?
Posted by Pov on :
Favorite AC story of all time- the Wizard 1/2 issue. The Image/Homage reprint (with a solid prose story to boot) is on my nightstand. I love Click Here For A Spoilerthe idea of a CRISIS-like event-- nicely told in what, 6 panels over a two page backdrop splash of the Eterneon/Time-Keeper battle-- having such personal repercussions... beautiful story. Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by Chief Taylor: What did you think of the Samaritan Special with Infidel, Miner?
I pretty much agree with what you wrote. Excellent job getting into the head of a major comic-book villain. I'd have to pull it out again to make sure, but I recall a few one-or-two panel hints of adventures that took place that sounded fascinating. Busiek (and Morrison) has nailed that sort of thing; it really adds color and a sense of history to the AC universe.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I really need to do a full reread to decide which are the best. In the entirety of Astro City, the Confessor story stands out as the #1 story, but I'd love to reread to see what other stories are close. Others that stand out all these years later are the story about the reporter (that introduced the Old Soldier and others) and the Crackerjack / Quarrel / revelation of the old man is really an alien story.
I did not find the Samaritan story, but plan on hitting up another CBS this week for shits & giggles to see if I can find it.
Posted by Dev Em on :
One of my favorite stories of all time is the 1/2 issue. With the man who dreams of a woman every night after one of the heroes big Universe saving adventures (which I believe took one huge panel to tell.
Posted by Blacula on :
Stories that stand out in my memory as being great are also the 1/2 issue with the Hanged Man (of course), the Confessor storyline, the Mock-Turtle/El Hombre tragedy, the Supersonic Special... more that I'm forgetting. They've all been great though. I don't think I've ever read a bad issue of Astro City.
Posted by Chief Taylor on :
No, there's never been a bad one. At their "worst" they're still better than the average book. AC's best, however, are among the very best the industry's seen over the last two decades.
Another standalone I really love is the Looney Leo story from the ongoing. That was a unique, fun and at the same time kinda tragic story. From the original mini, I've always had a soft spot for the issue that spotlighted Shadow Hill (the Hanged Man's stomping grounds) and the girl who grew up there and thought she wanted to move away.
As I said before, the Confessor and Steeljack storylines are superior to the Dark Age story, IMO. Besides its length and delays, I think it suffers from it not originally being crafted as an AC story. Kurt says this was the basic story he had plotted for the Marvels sequel that never got made (before Eye of the Camera, anyway) It's just an opinion, but I think AC is its own thing, and its stories (even if sometimes inspired by takes on the Big Two) should be crafted for that universe, not the other way around.
Posted by Blacula on :
Thinking about how good Astro City is has made me realise how disappointing Busiek's forays into the DCU have been.
Other than a couple of Justice League of America issues from *decades* ago, a Red Tornado mini from almost as long, and Power Company (not a great book but not bad either), I can't think of one DCU story from him I've enjoyed (caveat - I haven't read his One Year Later Superman run that I hear wasn't bad).
Thinking about it, I think part of the reason I haven't enjoyed his DCU stories is because he never sets them in the DCU! Dude is obsessed with telling tales about alternate versions of DC heroes or taking our heroes to alternate universes -
* 2 of his 4 original JLofA stories were set in an alternate universe (and they were his worst 2). * His more recent JLA run heavily featured the Crime Syndicate and their alternate earth (and really wasn't very good IMO). * Trinity was all about an alternate world without Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman so that I never felt that anything I read in it was actually going to have any lasting effect on anyone or anything in the DCU. It was also totally boring IMO. * His Aquaman was set in the DCU but may as well have been an Elseworlds since it was about a character who looked like Aquaman and had Aquaman's name... but was totally different to the Aquaman we know. * Even his apparently good Superman run was about a weird alternate future or something from what I gather.
Why does Kurt bother taking assignments to write in the DCU if he seems to have such an aversion to it? It's a shame because I would MUCH rather have him there controlling the futures of these characters than Robinson, Winick, Giffen or even Johns who have all shown themselves as writers far too kill-happy for my liking.
Posted by Chief Tay-LASH on :
Looks like AC remains at DC. That's how I thought it would roll. Even DC wouldn't be that stupid. Also, an AC movie in the works with Busiek providing a script treatment!
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
The most of Astro City that I've read was the first volume, which I've borrowed twice from the library, but haven't seen in a couple of years. Beyond that, issues I've glanced at in the store I work at, and now the only issues that I own are the one-shot about Beautie and the two-issue mini on the Silver Agent.
I recall the stories about Samaritan, his date with Winged Victory, Crackerjack, Jack-In-The-Box, and the woman whom commuted from Shadow Hill and decided it was safer there.
I'd like to start learning more about Astro City, but what has particularly caught my interest is the group of heroes called The Crossbreed. I understand they think their powers came from God, so they give themselves biblical names, and try to spread the word of Jesus and are labeled "The Jesus Freaks". What can you guys tell me about them?
Posted by Chief Lardy on :
Not much more than what you've said, off the top of my head. They're all named after biblical figures and have powers one might associate with their stories. For example, the one who looks like a lion is named Daniel after "Daniel and the lion's den". They've mostly had cameos and haven't been focused on very much yet, IIRC.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Bump]](graemlins/bump.gif)
for Teeds to encourage her to reread Astro City! I think it might be time to reread myself. I haven't read the Confessor arc since it debuted and I still remember how blown away I was by it.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
).![[Yes]](graemlins/nod.gif)
![[choke]](graemlins/choke.gif)