Though the article doesn't mention the Legion directly, his comments can apply to the whole preboot/reboot/threeboot debate.
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
Steven Grant focuses on the nostalgia, and I also sometimes wish I could recapture my 10 year old's happiness of reading comic books. I think people try to recreate these emotions by repeating events - reading old comics, returning to old haunts, celebrating holiday traditions - but it never quite comes back the same way.
I disagree, on a personal basis, with whoever said that labelling a comic as "fun" was a death knell (maybe it was Mark Waid). For me, a fun comic absorbs, entertains and uplifts. It can be straight out funny, such as Ambush Bug, where every page is played for a laugh, or some cheesy old reprint of a 1960s romance comic. Or it can be a dramatic story, a dark thriller, an autobiographical tale - but I think it has to have some light-toned moments, or some unexpected twists, or something outrageous. In this sense, a series like Sleeper was often great fun: violent, dark and paranoiac, but lots of surprises and the supporting cast of characters, with their varied superpowers, was entertaining.
On the other hand, Scalped is an excellent story, but not fun at all. Too serious, sad, grim.
Among the comics I'm reading now, I'd say that Guardians of the Galaxy and Fables are probably the most fun. They have a good balance of adventure, exotica, comedy, tension and unexpected plot twists. I couldn't really classify Legion of 3 Worlds as fun; I'm not sure why. I'm enjoying it, but apart from squabbling Brainiacs, there haven't been a lot of laughs and no particularly devious surprises. (Prime as Time Trapper was a surprise, I guess, but I was more turned off than entertained by it.)
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
"Fun" is synonomous with "enjoyable" not "funny," correct?
"Make comics fun again" might have some aspects of trying to recreate childhood emotions but I think it's mostly trying to ellicit "fun" emotions, and many of those happen to occur in childhood.
My perfect book? Probably a story that wraps-up in one or two issues which may or may not be set in an underlying story that progresses at a slower pace. Characters are changed by the story and/or I've learned more about the characters. More of the story is in the art than the dialogue though I'm a big fan of expose'. There would be one or two splash panels max and I need to look at the panels, the backgrounds, the faces to get the entire story. Writers would leave the physical aspects of violence more to my imagination and mood.
"Fun" has been removed for me by an inuring level of out-there depictions of blood-gore under the guise of "reality" or trying to shock which just comes off to me as laughable. I think a comic visual media works to a more diverse mood when "gore" is shown through its affects on others in the story rather than with blood or splitting body parts, which IMO distract the general reader and make me think more of the writer than of the story.
Fun is removed by stories drawn out using oversized panels and several splashes per book with little drama, dialogue or art detail and when the art is not necessary to the plotline.
Fun is removed when the number of unresolved plotlines builds up to more than a couple and when there seems no progression towards resolution.
I find myself being moved out of the comics because so much of the industry in charge of the characters I already know (DC) no longer meets these needs of mine.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
I pretty much agree with BB's criteria for a "fun" comic.
What struck me about the article was Grant's assertion that what we regard as fun in a comic is very often a memory of a memory. That is, we are recalling how we think the comic affected us when we first read it. In reality, the actual experience is no longer accessible to us.
Yet many fans try to impose this "memory of a memory" on comics today by insisting that comics conform to what they remember (or remember that they remember) comics being when they were "fun." It's a pointless debate since, as Grant asks, who says that readers of today don't find modern comics fun?
This means, of course, that there are fans who find unresolved plotlines, oversized panels, etc., fun . . . because such attributes make comics "wild" (to use Grant's term). That is, comics become fun when they are unpredictable, offering something the reader hasn't experienced yet.
Of course, older fans who decry comics have already experienced it all, hence that absence of fun for them.
Yet that begs the question: Can comics (or more specifically, mainstream DCs and Marvels) be fun for both older and younger fans?
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
There are movies which are fun for both older and younger, and some books (such as Harry Potter), so why not comics? What are the missing elements?
One aspect is the thinness of the comic book experience, relative to other media. Not only oversized panels and unresolved plotlines, but a mere 22 pages and considerably less happening than in the average Silver Age comic. A static experience (as opposed to a movie or a video game) and not much going on - pretty hard to engage the interest of young and old alike.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
I think you're right, FC: It's the thinness of modern comics that prevents them from being as meaningful as, say, Harry Potter.
So, what can comics do to offer that meaningful experience? Would returning to Silver Age standards in storytelling help?
(Ironically, in Lance's realm's "goofy project" thread, both he and I found it hard to get through certain Silver Age "classics.")
Posted by doublechinner on :
More story would certainly help. "Superfriends" and "Shazam" are the comics I'm enjoying the most at the moment, mainly because they have much more story per issue than "adult" comics. The most recent issue of Superfriends had a team-up of all the DC frozen villains, a great idea that I'm not sure any "serious" comic has done.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
"What Makes Comics Fun?"
You, you make lovin' fun..
Oh, wait, that's a song. Nope, no idea. If i knew, I'd write them and be rich, rich i tells ya.
Each person has their own views as to what comics should be, be about, have in the casts, what type of stories should be told. I don't think theres anything anyone can nail down about any one particular thing to make comics fun.
Whats fun in one era, like say the legion and the titans in the eighties, reads like dated daytime emmy stuff now, even when modernized for today's formats. Storytelling evolves, and for a lot of people, the stuff that makes it fun as a kid gets left behind as an adult. And the new kids that come along will have entirely different sensibilities.
For me, I don't need "reality" so much as fun and adventure and wonder. Everything seems passe at times. I've read so many books that it seems like every variation has been tried, reworked, redone, retold, and retreaded to the point of inanity. And then someone will come up with some great stories with great art and my interest is reborn. Sometimes its nothing so much as style (grant morrison) over substance (Geoff Johns). Sometimes its a return to badass storytelling (Gail Simone) to something as simple as a writer taking a character I love and breathing fresh life into it (Peter Tomasi on Nightwing).
The possibilities and variations are endless. Sometimes, a book catches the zietgiest of the moment.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
What makes comics fun? Their ability to spark one's imagination.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3004: What makes comics fun? Their ability to spark one's imagination.
Ah, but therein lies the question: How do comics spark the imagination, and how do they keep doing it in the modern age?
Posted by Pov on :
What Makes Comics Fun?
Apparently, blood, mass mutilations and endless "event"s... Posted by cleome on :
(snip)
Blockade Boy wrote:
quote:...Fun is removed by stories drawn out using oversized panels and several splashes per book with little drama, dialogue or art detail and when the art is not necessary to the plotline...
This seems to be the main thing that the Big Two have learned from Manga. For better or for worse. It's true that the more you see this type of thing, the more it extends the length of the story. At the same time, it's less of a problem when reading sequential stuff in trades or "regular" graphic novels, because in longer stories, there's a more generous helping of story all around.
Posted by MLLASH on :
Fun, huh? Let's review the most recent batch I got at the CBS a week and a half ago.
In the order I read them...
WARLORD # 4
I enjoyed 1-3 but felt a disconnect between story and art in # 4. Felt like I didn't know what was going on half the time. Ended up wishing Grell could do interiors as well as the stunning covers. VERDICT: NOT FUN; HAS THROUGH ISSUE 6 TO IMPROVE.
YOUNG AVENGERS (DARK REIGN) # 2
I liked the art, though the "Dark YA" characters continue to repulse me for the most part. I felt some of the dialogue was really muddy and hard to 'get'. A surprise reveal at the end kept my interest. VERDICT: NOT REALLY FUN BUT HAS SUSTAINED MY INTEREST
REBELS 5 & 6
I am simply not enjoying this title as much as I would like to overall. Dox continues to mesmerize, Ciji is a character to watch and the new-look warrior Starro was eye-catching. VERDICT: BORDERLINE FUN; AN UPPING OF THE ANTE IS A MUST TO KEEP ME ONBOARD PAST ISSUE 8.
JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA 34
I like the explanation for the merging of the DCU and the Milestone U but what happens during the next crisis or if Dharma dies? I've enjoyed the Milestone characters overall. Though this arc was hardly what I would call fun or classic. VERDICT: POTENTIAL.
JUSTICE SOCIETY OF AMERICA 28
What a downer of a story arc. though it wasn't bad, it WAS depressing. looking forward to Willingham. And what's up with everyone ruining Stargirl's crushes? VERDICT: DOWNER; AWAITING NEW ONGOING TEAM.
EXILES 4
Finally, here's the fun... LOVED the bits with Polaris versus the Sentinels. This relaunch has been enjoyable for me for the most part, but the ending of this issue could be a true downer. VERDICT: FUN! BUT WARY OF POTENTIALLY DOWNER TWIST ENDING; WILL NEED TO READ NEXT ISSUE FOR SURE.
SECRET SIX 11
One of DC's current best books, in my opinion. Even the numerous not-fun, depressing things that occur (and there's LOTS this ish!) are "fun" as told with the skill of Simone and N. Scott. These two have true talent to walk a fine line. VERDICT: FUN.
TEEN TITANS 72
I found myself just half-assed reading it, so I cannot fairly judge. Seemed to be some potentially fun hijinks going on so I need to give it a fair and proper read. VERDICT: ABSTAIN.
This batch of books cost me $29.
I think I should be getting a lot more fun for my money.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Okay, now, take the secret six ( I concur by the way, fantastic book) and switch them with JSA, putting the characters in the roles opposite. Then, mix some mescaline and hooch with videos of cats on valium and throw in some hippies in space. Take that and strain it through a mixture of Afrin and the movie Beerfest and wham...there's yer fun...and funny!
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