Don't know if this is common news and I missed it or if the announcement made recently (12/6) was missed by everyone. Along with writer J. Michael Straczynski, Olivier Coipel will be relaunching Thor late this year (2007).
Wizard has a couple of sketches by Olivier. I'd like to see more but his designs look good.
edit- corrected Olivier's last name in the title... been driving me crazy! ...er.
[ June 07, 2010, 06:51 PM: Message edited by: Officer Taylor ]
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
Copiel's work is awesome, but I've got no interest in Thor and none in JMS either.
Posted by Querl Dox on :
Thor is one of my faves, and Copiel on it is going to RAWK!
I hate JMS's writing of course and think his Marvel work in the last five years is the single biggest piece of cumulative crap that I've ever read which basically pees on FF and Spidey history, but hey, if Thor under Copiel can get popular, that will be great for Thor fans.
Despite JMS, I'll be looking forward to this!
Posted by Reboot on :
It's not by Coipel (it's by someone called Wes Craig), but here's another, slightly clearer, pic of the new costume:
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Hm...not Copiel, but I kinda like the pin-up of Thor here. Not sure if I'm familiar with Wes Craig, but that's certainly a majestic and powerful looking Thor.
Posted by Reboot on :
Wouldn't this be better getting moved to Gym'll's?
The series will see the fabled land of the gods plunked into the flat, tranquil planes of the southern state, and the comedy of manners that ensues once the local people adopt the Asgardians and try to interact with them on a day-to-day basis, navigating the clash of cultures when gods and hapless Southern mortals come together.
Straczynski described the city’s arrival with a farmer walking up and knocking on the gates of Asgard. An irate Thor opens peers his head out to see what he wants. The farmer tells him that they’ve landed on his land, and they can’t have a whole city dropped in the middle of his property. Thor grunts, summons thunder and lightning, and proceeds to lift Asgard off the farmer’s land – by ten feet, hovering just high enough for people to walk and drive under.
Straczynski also added that Thor would not be speaking in “thees” and “thous”, since he never understood why a Norse god would speak in Middle English. In this series, Thor would speak in a kind of formal English of antiquity, not unlike Aragorn from “Lord Of The Rings”.
And two new Coipel images:
Posted by Amora the Enchantress on :
"Asgard in Oklahoma?"
"Comedy of manners??"
AAAAAAAAUGH!!!!
Bastard, bastard, bastard! Verily, JMS is a disgrace to the profession of comic book writer.
My mortal friend Stealth shall see this as yet another reason to wonder if perhaps JMS the comic book writer and JMS her favorite animated cartoon writer of the 1980s are secretly two different people.
And let it be perfectly clear that the Amora which shall be appearing in this abomination is NOT ME!
I doth truly necessitate to imbibe.
Posted by Set on :
quote: The series will see the fabled land of the gods plunked into the flat, tranquil planes of the southern state,
Having grown up in said state, I'm pretty sure everyone I ever knew would scoff at the idea of being called a 'southern' state. I mean, yeah, sure, it's 'south' compared to say, North Dakota, but the only Southerner I knew in Oklahoma was a girl from West Virginia...
Luv ya, JMS, but you might want to write about what you know (or can make up).
At least he got the flat part right. Gotta go to Missouri to find hills.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Reboot: Wouldn't this be better getting moved to Gym'll's?
Done.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
If Asgard has to be in the US shouldn't it be in Minnesota? You know cold... Scandanavian settlers.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
I agree with Tamper Lad. Minnesota all the way.
Anyways, I am excited about OC on the title but not JMS. I just didn't care for some of things JMS thinks about Thor. One being the return of donald blake. let it go man! let it go! Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
quote:Originally posted by Set: [QUOTE] I mean, yeah, sure, it's 'south' compared to say, North Dakota, but the only Southerner I knew in Oklahoma was a girl from West Virginia...
Oddly enough, no true Southerner would consider West Virginia part of the South.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I visit Oklahoma about eight times a year and I don't like the idea of it being played for laughs, if that's JMS's intentions. I generally think the worst of said writer, so we'll see what crap he puts forth, unless I luck out and he proves me wrong.
Despite his involvement, I am looking forward to a Thor comic. This could end up being great if we get the majesty of Asgard back with actual good Thor stories for the first time in ages. A Thor comic can remain based on Earth for a time with Thor in the real world and still be excellent, which has been proven tons of times before.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester:
quote:Originally posted by Set: [QUOTE] I mean, yeah, sure, it's 'south' compared to say, North Dakota, but the only Southerner I knew in Oklahoma was a girl from West Virginia...
Oddly enough, no true Southerner would consider West Virginia part of the South.
Heh, in FL we don't consider ourselves part of the south...we consider ourselves part of the Carribean. JK, when you leave the big cities you see big trucks and dixie flags.
I guess it's all relative. Back in the day it was the Northeast, the South, and the West. Now the south is the southeast. I consider OK part of the West personally.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Actually, there's big trucks and dixie flags in rural Minnesota, as well, so I'm not sure that means anything.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Here in Connecticut, we don't see many dixie flags. Posted by Set on :
quote: Here in Connecticut, we don't see many dixie flags.
Until the Patriots moved there and changed their name, I hadn't even realized that Connecticut was considered part of 'New England.'
And hey, topic, why in Hel isn't Thor hovering over Scandinavia? How many Asatru are there in Oklahoma anyway?
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
You know... considering this is Marvel I'm shocked that they aren't having Asgard show up in the middle of Central Park.
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: You know... considering this is Marvel I'm shocked that they aren't having Asgard show up in the middle of Central Park.
That would be a retread - it spent a while floating over NYC during the Jurgens run, before it went alt-future.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
See... I knew it sounded like a Marvel plot!
Posted by walkwithcrowds on :
Please, somebody, PlEEEEEEAAAAAASE tell methis guy is joking. "A comedy of manners"????? What the hell is wrong with Marvel these days? Are they trying to piss everybody off? AAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by walkwithcrowds on :
Iron Man: "Oh uh so you heard about that clone thing huh?"
Thor: "Not cool dude, I doth state, not cool at all."
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
When does the first issue of this come out? Seems like it should be available by now.
Posted by Pov on :
It was just solicited in my May orders, so it probably hits stores sometime in July.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
I'm not sure if I like the way Coipel interprets his facisl features.
The only time I read Thor was Simonson's run and the Surtur arc remains one of my favorites of all time despite the fact that I don't really care much about Thor himself (I don't think I did that much even during the arc - it was the story that had me coming back).
I read that Thor will be dealing with the registration act in a way that hasn't been done yet. I'm going to guess "diplomatic immunity"
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3004: I read that Thor will be dealing with the registration act in a way that hasn't been done yet. I'm going to guess "diplomatic immunity"
Didn't Black Panther & Storm pull that one?
Posted by doublechinner on :
I will probably buy this initially, because I have a soft spot for the ol' thunder god. The only time I read it regularly was Simonson, and damn, that was good. I had read the Norse myths extensively as a kid, and Simonson really managed to blend those into the Marvel Universe. But, the reason for the soft spot is the occasional Thor issue/reprint I would pick up as a little kid. Thor was just so out there, so cosmic and bombastic! "Prepare yourselves for...the unimaginable!" kind of stuff. I think in "Origins of Marvel," they reprinted a story where Thor dropped into a soda shop for a drink and gave the kids a hallucinogenic tour of Asgard. It was amazing! That sense of wonder, somehow anchored in human emotions, was what Thor at its best delivered. My fear is JMS will turn all of that on its head in an effort to be innovative and ironic. We'll see. The comedy of manners comment itself doesn't terrify me too much since that culture clash was always part of Thor. I'm more concerned there won't be enough All-Out Cosmic Action!
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
quote:Originally posted by Reboot:
quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3004: I read that Thor will be dealing with the registration act in a way that hasn't been done yet. I'm going to guess "diplomatic immunity"
Didn't Black Panther & Storm pull that one?
That would make sense. I was actually wondering about that when I made my guess, but I don't know for sure whether they did or not.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
I'm just not happy Donald Blake is returning. I'm not JMS' biggest fan either. But I'm a big Thor fan as well as Olivier so I will check it out.
Posted by Amora the Enchantress on :
Bah! Thou shalt all regret the waste of thy currency!
Posted by doublechinner on :
Verily, lovely Amora, thee art most likely correct! And yet, waste it I shall, perchance to see the adroit Olivier render thy toothsome form once again 'pon the comics page! Forsooth!
<OK, we really need a Stan Lee/Shakespearian English thread, and now!>
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
Amora the Enchantress and the Executioner always reminded me of the Emerald Empress and the Persecuter.
(And Loki/Mordu and Computo/Ultron but thats another thread)
Posted by Director Lad on :
For me, Thor pretty much begins and ends with Walt Simonson's run. He captured so perfectly what I felt the character should be like and no one has really managed to match it since. His story was so epic that anything else seems petty by comparison. These are gods we're talking about here. They should be larger than life. Somehow, grounding them anywhere on earth diminishes them to the point of irrelevance. I won't be reading this run.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
So, has anyone else picked this up?
I read # 1 and was pleasantly surprised. It contains a positive message about Thor wanting to come back from "the void" and an innovative way of reintroducing Blake.
We are introduced to precisely one Oklahoman in this issue, and her personality and dialogue seem fairly authentic for a middle-aged, middle class Midwesterner. I don't know how important she is going to be in the story, but JMS spent a lot of time introducing her.
I don't follow comics news, so I had no idea who was relaunching the title. I didn't even pay attention to the credits until the end of the story, so I was surprised to see Coipel's name. He's come along way since his Legion work. His Thor work looks majestic, as it should.
My only complaint is that Thor appears too young, almost like he's 18. Granted that the guy's immortal, but I prefer him as a contemporary of Iron Man and Cap.
Posted by Jerry on :
Yes, I picked it up. I'm not much of a Thor fan, so got it mainly to check in on Coipel. I miss him on the Legion and enjoyed his Avengers work. The story itself seemed kind of light, but the Oklahoma angle is unique. I actually liked Coipel's Blake more than I did his Thor. My favorite image was Blake walking along the Oklahoma highway with the rolling fields toward the end.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
quote:Originally posted by Jerry: I actually liked Coipel's Blake more than I did his Thor.
I agree. Blake is more interesting here than he's ever been, in my opinion.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
<--------------------BIG Thor fan
Haven't picked it up yet, but will. HWW, your review makes me happy, I hope I'll be pleasantly surprised and like what I find here too.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
Big Thor fan as well. I have picked it up. Not a Donald Blake fan. I just hate when writers bring back silver age alter-egos, supporting characters, etc. Don Blake can burn in comic book limbo along Pepper Potts as far as I'm concerned.
Not the biggest fan of JMS. I admit the first issue was pretty good despite JMS and Blake.
I'm just not that excited about Thor anymore. Was hoping for something more creative than Donald Blake.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
I always thought that Thor lost something important when he lost Donald Blake. There's a Christ motif involved when a god takes takes on human form, but Thor had an extra understanding of human frailty, since Blake was crippled.
Posted by Pov on :
House could kick Blake's @$$. Posted by He Who Wanders on :
Yes, but all Blake has to do is tap that cane on the ground, and House becomes a fried weenie.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
Walt Simonson did pretty good without Blake. I think it's a challenge for the writer to write a god.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
I know I'm in the minority, but Simonson's run was where I started to lose interest in Thor. My memories of it now are vague, but I do recall thinking his artwork was blocky and incoherent, and the story lines just didn't interest me.
Back to the god in human form idea, I like Thor best when he interacts with us mere mortals and learns from us as much as we learn from him. Thor having the limitation that, when he drops his hammer for one hour, he reverts to Blake, and Blake's inability to save everyone as a doctor (which is mentioned in the new issue) give him a much more believable reason for "loving midgard" and wanting to protect it than he has otherwise.
Also, while I like Asgard, Balder, Sif, Fandral, etc., I don't wish to see Norse mythology become Thor's primary setting. I just like the character best when he's a godlike fish out of water.
So, I'm intrigued by JMS's "comedy of manners" approach. As long as he doesn't demean either Thor or Oklahomans, it should prove interesting.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I think Thor works great with and without Blake. There's so many periods in Thor's history where Blake wouldn't show up for like 20+ issues, that its pretty much been a sense that he's "sometimes in the comic, sometimes not". I don't mind either way.
Thor does excel with a strong supporting cast of both Asgardians and human beings, and even oddball alien types (Recorder and Tana Nile, I'm looking at you). I would like to see a good amount of time in Asgard though--but with a strong balance b/t time there and on Earth.
Being the writer on Thor is one of my Marvel dream jobs, possibly only second to Spidey.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
I agree about the supporting cast Cobie.
I just think it's more of a challenge for Thor to learn about humans if he's 6'6" and godly. And I actually like the fantastic supporting cast of non-normal humans. Give me aliens, super-heroes, mutants, and robots.
HWW, I've never met a person who didn't like the Simonson run.
Posted by Pov on :
I'm holding judgment until I get #1 witn my DCBS shipment Monday or Tuesday. (!)
And Jorge, I wasn't a big fan of Simonson's Thor; I liked it enough to check out the high spots-- "Frog of Thunder", Beta Ray Bill, Thor grows a beard...
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
quote:Originally posted by Ultra Jorge: HWW, I've never met a person who didn't like the Simonson run.
Well, now you have. Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
Blah, you Donald Blake fans can bite me!
Anyways, issue #2 is pretty good. Not much happens. I mean Asgard returns. That is about it. But I can't wait for the next issue.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
quote:Originally posted by Ultra Jorge: Blah, you Donald Blake fans can bite me!
We don't bite. We hit you with a big stick.
I haven't bought # 2, though I'll look through it to see if it's worth pursuing next time I'm in the LCS.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Finally read #1, and I have to say I'm impressed and excited. It was a very good issue and the reasoning behind Thor’s return was sound and powerful. Glad JMS addressed the reason Blake left the series in the first place, and then dismissed it.
A very powerful first issue, but lets hope the pacing gets faster as the series moves along.
Posted by doublechinner on :
I really enjoyed the first 2 issues, and I say that as someone who has of late soured on JMS's comics. I HAVEN'T read Thor since Simonson, but JMS seems to have done a great job of explaining the last significant events in a very economical, uncomplicated way. I like that approach. Thor's love for Sif, and there star-crossed history, gets powerfully portrayed with virtually no exposition. The Oklahomans are treated respectfully and appropriately amusingly. I really delighted in seeing the farmer bottom out his pickup with Asgard gelt.
It's clear he's stealing liberally from Gaiman's Sandman and American Gods with the idea of "Man decides when Gods live and die" thing. Not that I object. Steal from the best. I just wonder if he talked to Gaiman about it first?
This is the first time in a long time that I've liked the Donald Blake character. The Thor/Blake relationship has always been one of the most...confusing in comics, right up there with Captain Marvel/Billy Batson. Are they the same person? If not, is there arrangement not kinda creepy? JMS does a good job of portraying Blake as a distinct personality that is nevertheless a piece of Thor's soul.
Olivier's art is a thing to behold. I cannot believe how much he has grown since his Legion days. Thor has rarely looked more compelling. I especially like his huge nose and how it basically fuses into his forehead, Mr. Incredible-style.
I have 2 quibbles that I will revise and amend as the story goes on, if warranted. First, Asgard looks too Harry Potter/Mad King Ludwig and not enough Viking/Kirby weird shit. Second, the thing I remember from the classic Kirby Thor stories I have read was that Thor was, well, jolly. He smiled ALOT. He loved his life and his adventures. I realize the story so far doesn't warrant jocularity, but if JMS doesn't take the first opportunity to give Thor a belly-laugh, I will conclude this is another post-modern mopefest.
Overall, though, it's a delight to read this character again. The Kirby/Lee Thor was the most way-out, way-cool stuff I had ever seen when I was a kid. I devoured the "real" Norse myths almost as soon as I was capable of reading them. I really want this character back and in good form.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
quote:Originally posted by doublechinner: It's clear he's stealing liberally from Gaiman's Sandman and American Gods with the idea of "Man decides when Gods live and die" thing. Not that I object. Steal from the best. I just wonder if he talked to Gaiman about it first?
Gaiman hardly invented the concept. It's a very old idea that was explored in Star Trek's "Who Mourns for Adonais?" for one example.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
Well it happened in the Thor title already...well Journey Into Mystery.
The gods stuck in human form with amnesia. I am really suprised JMS is doing that again. But the writing is good and the art is amazing so I don't mind much. Plus it's always a fun way to reintroduce characters I love.
Posted by walkwithcrowds on :
I picked up the first two issues and was pleasantly surprised.
I'm a big Thor fan. He has the potential to be a VERY impresive and powerful character - if done well - and that seems to be the problem right there. He isn't always "done well".
When I first read the interview wlth JMS (The link was posted here) stating that he is planning to make it a comedy of manners I was horrified. Having read the issue: whilst the scene he described (The farmer driving up and complaining) was in the story, it came across as, quite, wry and unforced - as opposed to a total farce (as I was dreading).
JMS does get across Thors sense of granduer and nobility without making him seem pompous or ridiculous. I like his new speech pattern as well. His old "Thee" and "Thou" style was one of the easiest targets for lampooning and when done badly made the character seem foolish.
I agree with double chinner about Thors sense of humour but, as he pointed out, now is hardly the time for wild parties. When the Gods DO return though, there better be one hell of a banquet.
Donald Blake comes across as extremely interesting and I want to see his relationship with Thor explored further. Like Doublchinner said, their relationship was never really clarified. Was Donald Blake real? Did Odin just make him up? Was he a distinct personality or just a "suit of clothes" Thor donned when in his cicvilian guise? It looks like that is being set up as a MAJOR plot line for the future and I'm all for it.
The art was excellent. I REALLY like Thors new look, the squarer, flatter face makes him look much more like a viking warrior than the golden haired pretty boy he has, sometimes been portayed as, in the past.
Asgard DOES look kind of bare and medieval just now. I do prefer the Kirby dreamscape style. You could argue that the new style is more realistic but, we are talking about mythological beings here; a little grandeur and "Kirbyism" is fine with me.
So, basically, whilst the first few isues have been, kind of, slow it looks like it is only a slow boil and once things heat up we might see something really good.
It seems like Thor is in good hands. I'll be sticking around for a while yet.
Posted by Pov on :
quote:Originally posted by Ultra Jorge: Not much happens. I mean Asgard returns. That is about it.
Sorry, Jorge, that just hit me as SOOO funny...!
Like CNN announcing "American Forces caught Osama Bin Laden. Scientists found a cure for cancer. But that's it, slow news day today... "
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
I did mean it to be humorous. But besides THAT...not much happens.
Re: Asgard? I don't mind the medieval look. Sure I like it more cosmic as well but I don't think it would look very good in Montana. Posted by Pov on :
Well, I read #2. Basically all filler, no thriller. Kind of boring actually.
However, the art remains beautiful, and JMS does a pretty good job conveying Thor's mood and his love for Sif (who IMO is *the one* for Thor).
I'm into it still though, and ready for more. Especially looking forward to what's next, which hopefully will be the other Asgardians before too long. Like Doublechinner, I also want more of the Kirby influence.
Not too much originality so far, and pretty slow, but its still pretty well done despite all that. Also enjoying Don Blake.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Well, I read #2. Basically all filler, no thriller. Kind of boring actually.
I toldja! I mean yeah Asgard is rebuilt. Posted by walkwithcrowds on :
Has the third issue of this come out yet, or have I just missed it? I am really looking forward to the meeting with Iron Man and seeing Thor kick his arse. I don't have this on my pull list (I was going to give it a couple of issues yet) but this issue looks like the one to win me over.
Posted by Pov on :
#3's due out on September 12th, WWC. You didn't miss it. Posted by walkwithcrowds on :
Yay!
Iron Man's gonna get a kicking!
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
I breezed through a 'sneak peek' copy at my CBS-- the Thor/Iron Man confrontation takes up most of the book, but more important, to me at least, was the glimpse of how Asgard will apparently be repopulated.
The first 'new' resident is either a very appropriate one, or exactly the opposite, depending on how you look at things.
I'm amazed that ol' Goldilocks debuted at #1. I hope that portends good things ahead.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
Mystery Lad, if I remember correctly his previous series was ranked pretty high (Jurgens/JRJR) but kept dropping especially after JRJR (edited) left.
As for repopulating? Thialfi rocked! I would love to see him back.
[ September 17, 2007, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: Ultra Jorge ]
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
Regarding #3:
-- COOOOOOOL! JMS really has a handle on the language of Thor (and without the "thees" and "thous") - there's almost nothing more badass than Thor giving a speach about how he's going to rain godly vengeance upon you! Tony Stark certainly gets a taste of what's coming to him, with Thor drawing a line in the sand. His description of what would happen should the government act against him is downright biblical.
His smaller speach later when summoning his long lost asgardian brother is just as effective, though with a very different feel. (the aforementioned Asgardian also happens to be my favorite supporting Asgardian!)
And of course Coipel's art rocks the friggin' house!
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
I enjoyed the latest issue! JMS does have Thor's dialogue down pat. Love it. Love the art! And love seeing Tony getting his helmet handed to him!!!
Thor is more powerful? No he just isn't holding back!
The intro of the other Asgardian? eh. One of my faves if not my fave but the whole gods as humans ignorant to the fact that they are gods...was old before JMS tried it and is only going to get older. Marvel already did that with the Asgardians not so long ago.
Posted by Reboot on :
Odin probably won't be a drunken down'n'out this time though.
Posted by Set on :
I bought this just to see Tony Von Doom get his butt kicked. Very gratifying.
And wow, that was the *perfect* Asgardian to appear at the end for the current situation. Entire governments may be mobilizing against you? Who better to have standing watch than a man who can hear every sound in the nine worlds without fail? Stark can't even mutter 'Thor sucks' under his breath, let alone something like 'let's nuke Asgard,' without it being known instantly...
Still, my absolute favorite Thor supporting character has yet to arrive. Bring on Loki!
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
I thought it would've been cool to have Heimdall actually look right at the spy satellite at the end. (a bit of a cliche I know, but very appropriate)
Posted by Pov on :
Olivier's Thor is getting a Marvel Select figure:
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
I like Coipel's design, but it seems kinda wrong to me to see Thor in armor. He's always been tough enough not to need it (well, except for that time he was cursed of course...)
Posted by Pov on :
...cursed with the breakable bones, or that godawful beard...? Posted by Mystery Lad on :
#4's out-- with a story partially set in Darfur (sp?) which tries a *tad* too hard to be relevant. The elder's refusal of Thor & co.'s aid seems like something that would happen only in a work of fiction. I can't imagine someone really turning down a *god's* assistance to quell tragedy.
That said, the story was moving-- and I appreciated Thor's Solomon-like solution.
I'm glad the Warriors Three are introduced en masse, rather than drug out over 12 issues or something.
There's a hint that Asgard may be filling up at a much quicker pace, but who knows what that really means or when it'll happen.
We *do* know that Sif is most likely the next Asgardian to appear. After her, I'm pulling for Balder and then Valkyrie.
After that, the missing 'big Asgardians' (Freya, Hela, Loki etc.) can fill up the city.
I wonder about the frost giants, trolls, elves, sentient wolves that surrounded Asgard? Where are they?
I don't think folksy Oklahomans are a substitute, frankly.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
It *wasn't* Sif, after all! I was surprised at the brunette's identity... I won't spoil it, but I will say that I don't think it's a character that'll be a romantic interest for the God of Thunder any time soon.
Balder's back-- after time spent inhabiting The Destroyer's armor-- which was also surprising.
The same deal that brought about the cover character's return brought back a bevy of Asgardian 'baddies', who are now around to battle the Thunder god. And Dr. Doom's hand is stirring a pot or two. That can't be good (except possibly for readers).
I still wanna see Sif and Valkyrie! The DEFENDERS announcement has me wanting to see these two even more!
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
Weird how the Asgardians scattered anonymously (and amnesiac?) among the U.S. population is happening at the same time that the same thing is happening with Amazons at DC...
Posted by Reboot on :
They're not amnesiac and barely anonymous - all those Thor wakes up get full recall (and most of them aren't Asgardians - the four shown were Hela, a Frost Giant, Amora and the eye of what I presume to be Jormungand, with Hela & Amora in full costume and the others not exactly humanoid). I really want to know why Amora - the only one I consider to be an "Asgardian" of the four - ran away, actually. Last we saw, she was on good terms with Thor, and unlike Balder, she died well before Thor did anything in Ragnarok (she was the very first death when Loki attacked on Hela's ship).
I fully expect Sif to turn up inside Jane Foster - she's the only Asgardian who's been bonded to a mortal before where that mortal's still around. And given the reappearance of a Donald Blake...
[ January 01, 2008, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: Reboot ]
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
Yuck. I hope not, Reboot. I always found Jane kind of boring.
I was thinking of *all* the Asgardians, not just those shown in #5. I think the 'better-natured' Asgardians who we've seen so far have been amnesiac, so it's probable that those who haven't debuted are also without memory.
Amora-- I'd like to see her return to her roots as a prime Marvel villainess. Other than her, there isn't one, really. Is there?
Posted by Reboot on :
Most of the Asgardians are now "freed" from their hosts - Asgard is visibly populated in the opening scene, and there were tens or more people in the shelter that Thor freed various nasties from (the four we saw are an excerpt, a sample, not everyone). Sif - who Heimdall and by extension Thor can't find yet - and Odin - who JMS says Thor isn't sure whether he should try and find - are about the only major Thor-book Asgardians still missing.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
I only mean that the Asgardians were or are (in a few cases, still) anonymously scattered around without memory (before 'awakening' or whatever), just like the Amazons were at the end of AMAZONS ATTACK, this past summer. Concurrently with THOR. The Amazons, as yet, haven't come to themselves.
Posted by Stealth on :
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: Amora-- I'd like to see her return to her roots as a prime Marvel villainess.
Fat chance of that happening with the aforementioned brunette in the spotlight.
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: Other than her, there isn't one, really. Is there?
Moonstone.
Selene.
Dr. Monica "Scorpion's Mom" Rappaccini
Hela.
Madame Masque.
Viper.
Nebula could've been one if not for Starlin and Marz.
Umar has potential that's been unexplored for decades.
Dr. Minerva, if anyone at Marvel would write her like I do.
Posted by Amora the Enchantress on :
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: Amora-- I'd like to see her return to her roots as a prime Marvel villainess.
Why wouldst thou want me in the Marvel Universe when thou doth already have me here at Legion World?
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
"It is my hope to be the first Asgardian with a tan." Hee-hee!
Worth the price of the issue, IMO.
The stuff with the Asgardians rubbing shoulders with Oklahomans is fun. Thor's speech about wanting the Asgardians to live lives that they choose, rather than that they are fated for makes this juxtaposition more palatable. He says this as he's debating with Dr. Blake about whether or not to find and restore Odin, who Thor thinks will follow old paths.
I liked this conversation. Blake's thought, that an Asgardian in human form might be killed in a random car wreck before Thor acts spurs the Thunder God to take to the heavens and kill a bunck of birds with one lightning strike. He plummets to earth (lot of that happening in this series), while Loki looks on and makes cryptic comments.
Well, I like each scene- and the Norse gods interacting with Americans is richer fodder than I first thought. I can't help thinking that it won't last all that long, though.
It's fun to imagine how prolonged exposure would change both the Oklahomans and the Asgardians. How long till all the elfs, frost giants, sentient wolves, fairies, etc. start to set up camp around Asgard? They're on Earth, too, aren't they? Or did I misunderstand that?
Still- bring on some Sif and Valkyrie!
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I've got to say, despite just about nothing happening yet, I've kind of enjoyed the last few issues.
I'm still on the fence, but its entertaining enough for me to keep reading.
When I read all the Thor's a few years ago, I remember the whole 'Sif inside Jane Foster a la Thor in Don Blake' thing. I think Reboot could be on to something and they might go that route again. Obviously, Don Blake is not Thor, which is a major change in the last thirty years. Since midway through the Silver Age (when Kirby was still there) to another point in the 70's, Siminson doing away with it in the 80's and then even in the 90's, they've reiterated time and time again that Odin created Blake in a way where he was essentially Thor or an aspect of Thor. Now this is not the case. And so, if Thor has Sif, I think they might let Don Blake have Jane. In a way, it could please almost all Thor fans (for example, my father, a child of the Marvel Silver Age, prefers Jane Foster far beyond Sif).
My biggest worry was the way JMS might right some of the Oklahoma folks. So far, my worries seem to be for naught. I'll probably make about eight trips to OKC this year for business (I made about 12 last year).
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
Thorsleep? Already? A god-based father-son allegory concerning Odin's relationship with his father replayed in the Thor/Odin dynamic?
Interesting... but not what I wanted this issue.
Still, the art was nice- and the issue was generally well-written.
I wonder if Thor will bring Odin back after all?
If he doesn't, I hope the ravens hang around. They're kind of fun and creepy.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Anyone think the latest issue was actually an essay on comic books, the status quo and change? I felt it was, specifically Odin's speech to Thor and Thor breaking the cycle. And I think it was fairly brillantly done (without beating us over the head).
I think this might be the best issue yet, though I'm hard pressed to figure out why. I think JMS has hit his pace--its not a fast-paced book, but things are happening each issue and I'm feeling satisfied at issue's end.
I actually really like Jane Foster and Don Blake together (where, say, I don't like Jane & Thor), and I like the idea of a long-term build to their eventual return to a relationship.
Sif plot is a good twist.
I really liked Odin and Thor's scenes.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
#9-- Wonderful art, I thought. Particularly the scenes set in Asgard and in the snowy Rocky Mountains.
Loved the Warriors three here-- their personalites shone through, I thought.
Loki is suitably sinister and manipulative-- though the gender change is still a head-scratcher for me. What does it really contribute to the story? Wouldn't Karnilla have been a better choice for the role Loki plays here?
Thor being a bit big brother-ish plays right into Loki's hands.
Leading to the big revelation-- or bigger lie-- whichever it is.
Balder's next few appearances will be very revealing, either way.
Fun to see Frost Giants-- though it brings up some MU type questions. If Frost Giants, and others Asgardian monster-types by extension, are roaming the Earth, wouldn't they be causing all sorts of chaos? I'm glad the peripheral peoples have been resurrected along with the Asgardians, but having them *all* on Earth with few consequences is hard to swallow.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
#10-- I'm surprised that the Balder-as-full-brother thing was revealed so quickly.
That's good, but of course it's just the first turn in Loki's twisted plan, whatever it is.
I wonder what part the boy at the end will play in it?
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
#11-- I'm a little tired of Balder being manipulated by Loki.
Has Balder the Brave always had an owl as his signifier? Odin had the ravens... where's Thor's winged buddy?
Pages two and three contain an absolutely stunning visual whose impact is slashed by intruding panels. If you didn't consider the contents of the main image, it's an interesting layout, but part of what makes layout effective is balancing the contents of the smaller panels with the 'main' image.
The main image is that of some horned beast of burden bearing the court of Asgard, complete with canopy, half-naked maidens and bare-chested, helmed warriors standing guard. Panels along the left cut off a big part of the slope of the beast's back, obscuring just what that great animal's doing. Was Balder's owl so important here? The panel should've ended at the gutter, if not a few picas to its left.
There's a nice idea of the red canopy casting a red 'glow' across the faces of those within it in the smaller panels capturing their conversation. But the placement of the panels doesn't make the most of that idea.
Has a beast like this one who bears gods appeared before? How about a polar bear's head and fur used as a helm? Makes for a striking visual. Wonder what the Norse gods think of the dangers facing arctic animals...
A big chunk of the issue is comprised of a conversation between Thor and Steve Rogers' ghost, with Thor making a godly parting gesture of thanks and friendship. Nice scenes, though I just don't want to admit that the original Cap's really dead.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
A friend loaned me # 10 and 11, which are the first issues of the current run that I've seen since # 1. I must say that I enjoyed them quite a bit.
Thor's conversation with Cap's spirit was deeply moving, particularly the exchange about Valhalla.
Olivier Coipel's art is simply astounding; he's come a long way since his Legion days. (I agree with Todd, though, that the two-page spread could have been more effective. I didn't even realize it was a two-page spread at first, which led me to think that a transitional scene was missing between the third and fourth panels on page two.)
I enjoy this more mature take and quieter build-up of stories in some Marvels these days. Something similar was done with Hulk and Daredevil a few years ago, although those arcs went on too long and ultimately lacked any real pay off. But there is something nice about a comic book story that doesn't have to rely on super-villains or artificial drama.
In fact, I didn't even miss the absence of "thee" and "thou" in the Asgardian dialogue.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Just read #11 and thought it was fantastic. The Thor/Cap scenes really moved me, but what I thought was especially moving was Don Blake's few words before he called down Thor. Well done.
This might be what I consider JMS's best work at Marvel. It definitely started off slow--and hasn't necessarily picked up--but its found its own pace, and that helps make it more unique.
Love that its on the most outer fringes of the MU (kudos to Marvel for allowing so many of its comics to be like that), loving the stylistic feel to the art, dialogue and pacing, and generally loving that JMS has telegraphed far in advance what Balder may do and then is playing against our expectations every step of the way, as Balder refuses to fall easily to Loki's tricks.
HWW, glad you're picking this up again.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
Well, as I said, a friend loaned me # 10 and 11. Even though I enjoyed them, I doubt that I'll rush out to pick up # 12 and so on. But it's good to check in every now and then.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
So, I read the Loki issue. Great stuff...really great, actually. Thor definitely has a 'slow burn' but I don't mind it. This is probably the best Thor has been since...oh, the early-mid 90's, if not all the way to the end of Simonsin's run.
Having Matt Fraction do Thor one-shots is kind of nice too, so when the main title runs late, we get some good Thor 'action' stories.
Man, I hated JMS so much on Spidey, but he seems to be doing a good job here. He always said it was editorial interference, so I'm glad I've given him a chance here.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
The prospect of Asgard's natives moving to Latveria makes my suspension of disbelief waver. Asgard moving around (whether it's the city-on-a-rock or the community of Asgardians) just reminds me that the word 'Asgard' accounts for much, much more than a city's populace. Trolls, frost-giants, sentient wolves, fairies, elves, etc. Literal worlds of characters. All relocated to Earth? Somewhere else 'out there'?
I'm curious about all of that.
Which isn't at all what the story in the renumbered #601 is about.
It's about Loki and Balder, William and Kelda (very sweet story between those two), and Don Blake. I've always been fairly entertained by Loki and his mischief-making ways, but now- I pretty much want to see Thor kill him. After Sif is rescued and restored (if possible) and Loki's in some other body.
Was this all a convoluted way to keep the Thunder God and his goddess permanetly apart? 'Cause the idea of Thor physically loving the body that he at least sort of got used to calling his 'brother' is... nauseating. Members of godly pantheons have done worse, I suppose. At least Loki-in-Sif is Asgardian-human-ish. And not a swan or a bull or a tree.
I like each issue as they come out, but I'm quite impatient with the Sif situation. And where's Brunhilde? I love, love, love Peter David's take on her- but I'd like to see her among her hereditary peers for a storyline or two, as well.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
In addition to the THOR monthly, Marvel has begun reprinting the old TALES OF ASGARD strip with updated colorization. A bad thing if you're talking about classic black and white movies, but a good thing when talking about older comic books.
At least in this case, it is.
I've read some of these here and there, but never all of them. I've said before, and no doubt will again, that I'm a big fan of the mythological stories in prose and in comic form. I'm predisposed to like these. Anyone who shares such a predisposition and doesn't own or hasn't read the originals from the 1960's will want to at least look through these.
Between these, the recent announcement of an INHUMANS masterwork and all the other reprints Marvel has been gracing us with (in Classic TPB, Essential or Masterwork form), they've really taken the lead from DC in the preservation of their past.
You know what? They've even been reprinting older stories alongside new ones... just like the era when I became a comics reader. It hooked me then-- I hope new readers of all ages are similarly engaged.
DC- follow their example. The time for resting on the laurels of the wonderful ARCHIVES and SHOWCASES is over.
Posted by Reboot on :
Thread could probably do with a renaming, since Coipel left @ #600.
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: In addition to the THOR monthly,...
Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha...!
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Well I'm enjoying the bi=monthly (tri-monthly? ) Thor series still, quite a bit. I hope Thor remains exiled from Asgard for several issues now without a quick return, and in the meantime, the Sif subplot begins to reach its conclusion.
Too bad Copiel has left, he's really getting better and better with age. But he doesn't seem to stick around in one place which starts to get annoying after awhile.
Who would have thought JMS could do such a damn good job on Thor? Certainly not me. I'm very impressed thus far. I'm waiting until he's done about 20 issues or so and then I will try to read them all right through in one sitting. I suspect they're a lot better even.
Posted by Pov on :
Most of the comic news sites have reported JMS leaving Thor over being forced into "event"-type stories. Here's one of the stories from CBR Posted by Mystery Lad on :
At least Sif returned before JMS left-- ramifications to follow?
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I'm taking this as bad news.
Sure, on the one hand, we'll probably get a more consistently published Thor series. At least we better--I need a monthly comic please.
But man, this is the best Thor has been since...well, since I've been able to read comics off the stands, thats for sure (re: since Simonsin). JMS leaving after only so brief a run sucks because of how good it was. And the knowledge that another crappy Marvel crossover (which 5 out of 6 are) makes it worse.
At least JMS high-profiled Thor enough that he is an intrical part of the MU again, something that he hasn't been for like two decades prior. JMS had somehow despite my doubts managed to erase all worry and make me firmly believe in him as the caretaker to all things Asgard in the MU, and Thor is my favorite Marvel property besides Spider-Man (and I have several that contend for that spot).
In other news, I'm currently rereading the entire Thor run. I just finished Kirby's final stories and beginning Buscema's. They are majestic and amazing as I remembered them--even moreso. They are masterpieces. Maybe I'll start a thread when I have a few minutes to review them in more detail.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Just read the latest Thor and thought it was excellent as usual. Glad the Sif plot was resolved and glad he did it in one issue.
Whenever JMS uses Dr. Strange it is always well done. Bendis needs to take a page from JMS's book.
I'm actually enjoying the storyline with the Oklahoman boy on Asgard. I think ultimately that love story will be crucial to JMS' overall story--if he ever gets to wrap it up.
I think its utterly ridiculous that JMS is leaving the title. What the hell is Marvel thinking? Thor hasn't sold well in decades! For years and years, I thought I was the only Thor fan on the internet besides Mystery Lad and Stealth. Why ruin a good thing for yet another somewhat boring crossover? Ugh.
Also, one of these days I'll do a complete review of Thor's entire 40 year history. Once I catch up on the last two month's comics, I'll return to my reading (I'm at the second Mangog story).
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Just read the latest Thor and thought it was excellent as usual. Glad the Sif plot was resolved and glad he did it in one issue.
I don't like her new costume, though. Between the choice of pink as the main colour, the plunging neckline and the general..chunkiness of it.
[If you look at the "Encyclopedia Mythologica" Handbook Marvel put out the other week, she's presented there in a costume based more closely on some of her older ones (presumably because they didn't have a reference for the new costume in time) and it actually fits a lot better with Thor's current costume. The fact that, with the dash to stick fur on them, most of the other new costumes don't fit with Thor's at all rankles a bit.]
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
After the special/annual/whatever it was, I was beginning to think that Sif had disappeared again, inexplicibly. Loki's continued turning up in female form sort of reinforced my doubt.
Thankfully, she and Thor had a nice long conversation and then checked into the same rooming house in Oklahoma- together, but in separate rooms.
The bulk of September's issue, though, dealt with matters in Latveria. Loki's 'gift' to Dr. Doom is quite chilling (though also sort of comical if you also happen to read X-FACTOR).
William of Oklahoma sure went up several notches in my affections. I liked him from his earliest panels, but here- wow, full-fledged heroism, toughness and scrappiness. I hope we get to see more of him in future storylines-- now's the time for some deus ex machina in a title that's crawling with- you know- deuses.
Warriors Three- love reading them... Kelda becomes more and more interesting... all to wrap up the next special/annual/whatever? Surely, folk like William and Kelda and some of the Sooners will figure in the new creators' storylines?
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Read the penulminate issue of JMS's run and the quality remains as high as ever. Its too bad Marvel editorial had to screw with a good thing...I'll be sad this run is coming to an end.
I have no idea what the next creative team has in store, but I wish they'd keep the Warriors Three and Sif in Oklahoma for a little while with Don Blake. It seems ripe for possibilities! Obviously, it couldn't last but only one issue isn't enough.
I'm curious how William and Kelda's story will ultimately end. It somehow happened, but I actually care about these characters. Well done.
Having Loki back in his normal body is welcome. No other artist could ever get it right the way Copiel could. Loki's apperances elsewhere in the MU have been painful to look at.
'Boot, I agree about Sif's costume. I'd prefer the one you pointed our myself. It was cool to see her in human clothes. That whole sequence was great (funny and quick so it stayed funny).
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
JMS's run is now officially over. Way too soon, in one respect and overdue in another. Hopefully, Thor will be blessed with a more regular schedule for a period.
The conclusion to Bill's story Click Here For A Spoiler if conclusion it is, is very sad. He could return fairly seamlessly, though, as he's dragged off by Asgardians. I would've thought this would've been a good place for Valkyrie to appear, as her presence in the MU needs to be tied to this book, at least as a tangent, if nothing else.
I haven't read the Doom/Kelda second part of this issue yet.
I enjoyed the Sif/Warriors Three/Thor pages... loved them, in fact. I hope all of these characters make frequent appearances in the MU. The W3 are naturals- they're funny and engaging wherever they appear. In this issue, there's an hilarious bit where Volstagg is naked for a time, with Sif (and others) pointedly staring at what is inferred to be a package fit for a god. Ha!
Sif traditionally felt a measure of disdain and apartness when on Earth... perhaps now, after her stint stuck in an aged body, she'll feel more connected? I think she, as a character, needs to appear in settings other than Asgard for awhile. I'm not even sure what this Sif is a goddess *of* (like Thor's god of thunder). Reading about the non-comic Sif, she's linked to a wide range of attributes (prophecy, grain, marriage, fidelity, swans) none of which I've seen used in conjunction with the comic Sif.
The future of this title has me worried. There's a creative team whose stint is meant to be temporary, a mega-event associated with Asgard (called SIEGE, I'm bracing myself already) and uncertainty beyond that.
It looks like all the Balder/Dr. Doom/Asgard in Latveria stuff will be dealt with.
I want to see Sif kick Loki's big lying butt, I know that. Probably have to settle for Thor or Balder, though.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Well, while JMS's final issue was obviously nothing special and a clear indication that he left exactly in the middle of his story without getting to the ending he wanted to tell (wow they must have really pissed him off), the new creative team has been surprisingly pretty good!
Kieron Gillen is someone I'm not familiar with though I've heard his Phonogram is a good comic (I browsed in the CBS and it looked like a lot of talking heads). But here, his dialogue is spot-on, the story is action-oriented with a good moving plot and overall it continues the spirit of what JMS was doing.
Billy Tan, who I do know, is awesome as always. The art has the explosiveness I expect from him but here it is very dark and moody and I like that--very reflective of what they are going for with Doom and Asgard in Latveria.
Overall, this is a good Doom vs. Asgard story, and one of the better Doom stories these days (of which there seems to be a lot of bad ones lately). I just reread the original Doom vs. Thor story by John Buscema and Gerry Conway in the early 70's, which is funny; I'd say this one is actually better so far so thats high praise.
I'm really glad to see Tyr, whom is a character I've always thought had an intersting roll in the Marvel Norse Mythology, walking the line between brother at arms and enemy of Thor. I hope he sticks around.
I'm also surprised that I actually do care about Kelda and want her to survive. It happened very subtly but that was JMS's plan all along and it worked. I'd like to see more of her going forward.
So far, a great follow-up from JMS after his unfortunate exit.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
Gotta hand it to Kieron Gillen. This is possibly the most seamless transition following an outgoing writer with a distinctive 'voice' that I can recall. Great job.
I did think that Volstagg was a touch 'dewy eyed innocent' artwise. Unless this was a Loki-like bit of godly manipulation?
I think the degree to which Seige succeeds will be proportionate to how much the reader buys Volstagg's actions. He's at once the biggest pawn and most pivotal character being used.
It's a nice change to have such a story progressing at this pace-- it's really the only logical way to tell this story, though. Any battle between humans and Asgardians lasting more than hours would be unbelievable.
Gotta ask, though- where's Sif? And Valkyrie? Will Hela be pleased or pissed off at all the rumored Asgardian losses? Will she claim Ares?
Would the Valkyr?
I liked the renditions of floating Asgard and of Kelda, particularly. "Born I was of light and sky, of sunrises and wind." "Are you Bill of the line of Bills?" That was a quietly heartbreaking page.
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: Will Hela be pleased or pissed off at all the rumored Asgardian losses? Will she claim Ares?
Would the Valkyr?
Gillen's apparently going to deal with this in a fill-in issue of New Mutants of all places.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Reboot:
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: Will Hela be pleased or pissed off at all the rumored Asgardian losses? Will she claim Ares?
Would the Valkyr?
Gillen's apparently going to deal with this in a fill-in issue of New Mutants of all places.
That issue was 'okay' at best, but if I wasn't already collecting New Mutants, I would have been fine reading it in the store.
Meanwhile, I'm enjoying everything Gillen is doing in Thor. I could go into it all again but its largely the same praise I gave the book above. I love the focus on the Warrior's 3, Tyr, Heimdall, Balder, etc. I'm also really enjoying Kelda as part of the cast.
The Siege crossover issues have actually been quite fun. They are all Asgard driven plots anyway so it fits in here seamlessly. While Thor is co-starring in Siege, this actually lets his supporting cast get some screen time so for me its win/win.
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: Gotta hand it to Kieron Gillen. This is possibly the most seamless transition following an outgoing writer with a distinctive 'voice' that I can recall. Great job.
You really said it, Todd. I couldn't agree more--its like there was no transition at all.
And the artwork is fantastic!
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
Did anyone pick up the SIF one-shot? I sort of enjoyed it, though it was fairly free of purpose, other than being a part of Marvel's Year of Women (or whatever they're calling it) push to highlight their female characters.
It was good, at least, to see Sif up and around and kicking butt and positioned, now, to be a vital part of the THOR title (assuming she doesn't get pulled into a team title or something- which I'd love!).
The cover looked just like the old MTV cartoon character, AEON FLUX. I was both glad a little disappointed that the inside art didn't follow through.
What happened to her ability to travel through time and space? I haven't seen that referenced in a long, long time. I wonder if her status as chief of Valkyries at the end of the previous THOR series still stands?
It's also been announced that Eaglemoss will be releasing one of their lead statuette/glossy magazine combos featuring Sif sometime in 2011 or 2012. For anyone who's a fan of the character.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I also picked up the Sif one-shot based on my love the character and the Thor mythos and like you say Todd, it was a pretty enjoyable read, though it was largely free of purpose.
It was a solid Sif story and nice to see her in a leading role, as well as a nice follow-up to her strong relationship to Beta Ray Bill & Skuttlebutt. No major surprises or twists, but it was good to see Sif doing battle.
In a way, Sif's own sense of boredom mirror my own in that I too want to see Sif, the Warrior's Three and the rest of Thor's cast off on some wild adventures, whether in fantasy format or science-fiction adventures through space.
At a $3.99 price though you've got to wonder what Marvel was thinking with this. Who would buy it other than the most hardcore Thor fans?
If ever there was the perfect back-up for a comic book it was Tales of Asgard in Thor during the Silver Age, and if they ever did that again, I'd love to see Sif in the lead role, rotating with other Asgardians, particularly when Thor is on Earth having his own adventures.
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
It's been known for a while that Matt Fraction and Pascual Ferry would be the new Thor team, but now we finally have an official date for their first issue:
I'll buy the first issue for Ferry alone (his art on Adam Strange was outstanding) although the preview is rather underwhelming.
Fraction is more of a question mark to me. His writing runs hot and cold with me, and I don't like the way he comes across in interviews.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I'm cautiously optimistic given that I wasn't thrilled about Guillen coming on and he did a great job.
Is it just me or does Matt Hollingsworth's inks in the preview kind of take a little of Ferry's dynamic away? Ferry's Adam Strange and other works were terrific (he also drew a terrific Superman) and I feel he's gotten only better over time. In that preview, I'm a little worried the inker isn't doing him justice. Something I'll keep an eye out for.
Fraction's biggest problem for me is he is not a bad writer, its that so many of his comics are just too bland. Reboot said it best that his Uncanny X-Men is perhaps "the most mediocre comic book on the stands". I think that's a fair criticism.
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
I like to joke that Fraction is only HALF as good as the hype makes him out to be.
Get it? Fraction, half...tee hee.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Posted by Officer Taylor on :
[Guys, I just used my new Moderator powers to edit this thread's title. I'm sure you will agree that "Coipel and the Thunder God" hasn't been accurate for awhile! It's been bugging me for a while! ]
Posted by Ramble Damsel on :
Belated thanks, Chief.
Preview of Fraction and Ferry's first issue, due Sept. 22:
quote:Originally posted by Chief Taylor: [Guys, I just used my new Moderator powers to edit this thread's title. I'm sure you will agree that "Coipel and the Thunder God" hasn't been accurate for awhile! It's been bugging me for a while! ]
unfortunately. Coipel does some rockin' Asgardians.
but this i looking pretty good, bit cartoony ...
Posted by Chief Taylor on :
^Looks like they're moving away from Coipel's Thor design and back towards the classic look.
quote:Originally posted by Chief Taylor: ^Looks like they're moving away from Coipel's Thor design and back towards the classic look.
<==Not surprised.
I don't really see it - the pointless glowyness on the cover notwithstanding, it just looks like the same costume in a different art style rather than an actual design change.
At any rate, I think I'll be dropping the main Thor book once Gillen's done. Fraction drove me away from the X-Men long ago, and his Iron Man's been weak of late too.
Posted by Chief Taylor on :
Well, I noticed the "dots" on his tunic are back. Pretty sure the Coipel design dropped them, right?
Posted by Reboot on :
Ferry's flattened them out a fair bit - Coipel did the four above his waist as raised metal plates, and the two below as part of the fabric - but he's also done something similar with the scale mail. I don't recall Ferry putting in such details elsewhere though, it's just his style. (It wasn't even a tunic pre-Coipel, after all!)
[ August 25, 2010, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: Reboot ]
Posted by Reboot on :
Meanwhile, Thor #614, the last of Gillen's run (Thor #604-614, plus Siege: Loki and New Mutants v3 #11) came out this week.
It's a slightly odd run - his first three issues were entirely about resetting JMS' last arc for Siege, the next four (originally three) were focused on the supporting cast and couldn't do much of consequence since Thor and all the Asgard-shattering events were Bendis' purview in Siege, and the final four issue arc (inserted AFTER #611 was solicited to be the first Fraction/Ferry issue) draws on the setup of a one-shot and a fill-in issue of an entirely separate title - while Bendis tells a near-irreconcilable story with Hela in Avengers: Prime to boot!
For all that it's been hamstrung by mandates, undercut by Bendis and scattered around though, Gillen's done a decent job with what he had to work with. In particular Tyr, an oft-neglected character, has been brought back into circulation very effectively; the Dísir have been an effective menace in his only "true" arc; he's made BRILLIANT use of Mephisto (Peter Parker could learn something from Thor's treatment of the devil...) and that very last twist with Kelda is something I'm very sorry won't be followed up on.
[ September 10, 2010, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: Reboot ]
Posted by profh0011 on :
THOR versus "The Executioner" (no, not THAT one!)...
Hey, that's funny, they DO look like metal discs on this one!
Posted by profh0011 on :
Something I just posted at the Kirby-L Yahoo group...
In the EARLY episodes, Dr. Don Blake seems to have very little knowledge about Thor, Asgard, etc. Slowly, as the series progresses, he crosses paths with Loki, Odin, The Executioner and the Enchantress (who had a longtime crush on Thor, and seems to have turned to evil initially either out of raging hormones, spurned advances, or whatnot-- or maybe she's just a BAD girl at heart, but he might have "turned to" to the side of good, but he didn't-- JUST as later repeated itself with Balder & Karnilla?).
Only about 3/4ths of the way into Kirby's "2nd" run on the series does Thor suddenly follow the example of several readers and ask, "But, what ever happened to the REAL Don Blake?" This had been a complete NON-ISSUE until several readers wrote in. One of them "explained" the whole thing in detail in a letter that was printed-- in the issue containing the 1ST HALF of the eventual "origin" story. It seems Stan --or Jack???-- took what the reader said and translated it into the comic, VERBATIM. Was it just a coincidence, or was it Stan ONCE AGAIN taking the easy way out, and "giving the readers what they want"-- in this case, giving readers what ONE reader had GIVEN HIM on a silver platter???
The SAME thing happened in CAPTAIN AMERICA. Originally, Cap came home after the end of the War. Then, he retired. Then, he came out of retirement. And then his book was cancelled for the 2nd time.
But then we saw Cap was unfrozen from a block of ice, and according to him, he'd gotten that way JUST BEFORE the end of the war. Now, this could have been faulty memories. But he remembered Bucky getting BLOWN TO BITS! Bucky, who had adventured with him AFTER the war! Was Cap's memories faulty-- or what?
Some reader wrote in suggesting the 1950's Cap may have been someone else. Steve Englehart took that and ran with it. At least, that's what I seem to recall happened.
Meanwhile, The Red Skull-- who had been operating a spy ring in North Africa all thru the 50's-- tackled Spider-Man. SAY WHAT??? In this case, definitely, a reader wrote in saying, "Wait a minute!" The Red Skull was put into gas-induced suspended animation (JUST LIKE BUCK ROGERS!!!!!) shortly before the end of the War (and shortly before Cap was put "on ice"-- but no skates). It was mentioned ON A LETTERS PAGE, years later, that The Red Skull that Spider-Man had fought in ASM ANNUAL #5 was in reality-- you can see this coming, right?-- the 1950's Red Skull! The fake Cap had fought a fake Skull. With a fake Bucky at his side.
This did not "explain" how Cap was still fighting after the war ended. So Roy Thomas-- in the only issue of WHAT IF? to be firmly set in the "real" Marvel Universe-- told how, when the report of Cap & Bucky's death hit Military Intelligence, for the sake of moral, they recruited THE SPIRIT OF '76 (a really, really obscure Marvel hero) to take his place! Not long after, HE ALSO got killed! So a slightly less obscure hero, THE PATRIOT, took HIS place. It was The Patriot (with his own fake Bucky) who adventured after the war, and teamed up with "Golden Girl" (Betty Ross, not Betty White).
Okay, okay... so none of this makes it clear, WHAT did Jack Kirby have in mind? As I said... read the EARLIEST issues in JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY. Blake talks and acts if he and Thor are 2 different people... just like Billy Batson & "The World's Mightiest Mortal!" (TRADEMARKS prevent my using his real name...)
: D
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Reboot: Meanwhile, Thor #614, the last of Gillen's run (Thor #606-614, plus Siege: Loki and New Mutants v3 #11) came out this week.
It's a slightly odd run - his first three issues were entirely about resetting JMS' last arc for Siege, the next four (originally three) were focused on the supporting cast and couldn't do much of consequence since Thor and all the Asgard-shattering events were Bendis' purview in Siege, and the final four issue arc (inserted AFTER #611 was solicited to be the first Fraction/Ferry issue) draws on the setup of a one-shot and a fill-in issue of an entirely separate title - while Bendis tells a near-irreconcilable story with Hela in Avengers: Prime to boot!
For all that it's been hamstrung by mandates, undercut by Bendis and scattered around though, Gillen's done a decent job with what he had to work with. In particular Tyr, an oft-neglected character, has been brought back into circulation very effectively; the Dísir have been an effective menace in his only "true" arc; he's made BRILLIANT use of Mephisto (Peter Parker could learn something from Thor's treatment of the devil...) and that very last twist with Kelda is something I'm very sorry won't be followed up on.
I agree on all counts! This was a very weird run in how the title was so influenced by outside events at Marvel, and yet, it was also quite good despite all of that. I think this will be one of those woefully under-appreciated runs in Thor history (especially if Fraction continues to be a darling of critics for some reason with his upcoming run).
Definitely think the usage of Mephisto was one of the best in a long, long time. Mephisto was once a strait-up Thor enemy in the 1970's, and I like him being so again here. He was written very well.
I haven't read the final issue so I'm not sure about the Kelda twist yet. I can only say I think Gillen's continue use of Kelda, especially how he's had her grow and evolve based on what's happened, has been not only an excellent read, but a benchmark that all creators coming on a series should try to reach (rather than the typical forget everything that's gone before without acknowledging it approach).
Loved the use of Tyr as well. Tyr is a great character in not only Norse mythology but Thor's history (Thor, the Marvel character) who has always remained rather obscure; having him here felt fresh yet very connected to what's come before.
I've also liked how he's used Balder quite a bit. Balder has had this role in different eras but often-times, he's not shown doing much when leading the Asgardians. Here, he is always doing something every issue.
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I haven't read the final issue so I'm not sure about the Kelda twist yet. I can only say I think Gillen's continue use of Kelda, especially how he's had her grow and evolve based on what's happened, has been not only an excellent read, but a benchmark that all creators coming on a series should try to reach (rather than the typical forget everything that's gone before without acknowledging it approach).
Something you said in there is going to seem very funny to you once you've read #614, but I won't say what
Speaking generally for now so as not to spoil... Kelda was never a character that was likely to be "reset-buttoned", since she was created for JMS' Thor run, and there was nothing to really reset TO. The closest thing to a reset-button is for her to disappear from the book.
[And looking back at JMS' run... her characterisation was fairly weird. She starts out flirting with Bill for the apparent novelty of it, then it rather abruptly becomes True Love Forever without ever seeing Bill from *her* perspective to show us why...]
Posted by Reboot on :
And on a completely different note, I had cause to read the first few issues of the Jurgens/JRJr run today...
...dear Æsir are they crap. Not even funny-crap, nor so-bad-they're-good. Just badly dialogued, badly plotted and with art by a guy whose work I really don't like (although I know he haS fans).
How. the. HELL did Jurgens last 79 issues (before he was abruptly cut off for Oeming's Ragnarok)?
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
It gets worse. The first 12 issues are Shakespeare compared to what follows. First a huge retread of Kirby's original Mangog story, then a retread of Simonson's Malekith story and then it gets really bad.
I personally love the JR Jr art but the Jurgens story is tough. I purposely skipped the era when I did a big re-read last year.
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
Don't anybody waste their money or even their time on the latest issue of Thor. Verily, it doth suck. Even Pasqual Ferry seems to be going through the motions.
I personally believe the only two Thor runs where the book achieved its potential were Stan & Jack's run and Walt Simonson's run.
Posted by Chief Taylor on :
^I bought the first Fraction/Ferry issue yesterday based on good reviews and curiosity about the book after having just read the first two trades of JMS's run. Haven't read the issue yet, but I'll let y'all know what I think.
I was intrigued enough by the two trades (which go thru Thor 600) to look into buying the final JMS issues and possibly the Gillen run as well.
[ October 18, 2010, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: Chief Taylor ]
Posted by Chief Taylor on :
^So I bought a lot from eBay that bridges the gap between the first two JMS trades and right before Fraction takes over. Yesterday, I read the first four which concluded JMS's run (601-603 + the "Giant Size Finale"). As I had suspected from reading reviews, JMS's "finale" wasn't really one at all for the most part.
Overall, I enjoyed JMS's work on the character quite a bit. Though you can argue the story was a bit on the decompressed side, but I think this approach served reintroducing the character and his mythos to the Marvel Universe very well.
The slower pace also helped showcase the stunning Coipel and Djurdjevic artwork, IMO. These two were definitely capable of drawing the hell out of anything JMS threw at them! These were absolutely beautiful pages of comic books aided and abetted by terrific coloring. I think, as much as I love Coipel, that Djurdjevic's stuff may have impressed me a bit more. (His covers definitely beat Coipel's hands-down.) He just has more of a feel for conveying mood and drama, IMO. But you can't go wrong with either.
I like that JMS is moving Thor ahead in his stories particularly by the obvious change in setting and by putting Ragnorak firmly in the past. I hope that future writers won't just erase all of that as they tend to do as quick as they can. JMS didn't exactly reinvent the wheel here (and actually restored some things like the Donald Blake identity and even his need for the cane at the end), but there was definitely a sense of forward motion and new horizons.
Speaking of Donald Blake, I was a little confused. The last I understood was that Blake and Thor were really the same guy all along despite all prior portrayals, but JMS definitely paints them as seperate people. I'm not sure if JMS was building on a prior writer's reversing that or if he just decided that they should always have been different people. If someone reading this can clarify, I'd appreciate it.
Loki was interesting working his/her wiles. Not sure what the point ever was of Loki being a female in the first place. At some point, he was just simply himself again, with nothing but a hint to Thor that Loki's female form was somehow tied to Sif. Didn't really make any sense to me.
I was a little saddened by the death of Click Here For A SpoilerBill in the finale. Not as saddened as I could have been, though, because I don't feel we ever got very deep characterization for him. I personally think JMS had bigger plans for him but decided to take the character out with his own premature exit to insure later writers wouldn't mess up his ideas for the character.
It's a shame that Marvel's Powers That Be wouldn't let JMS keep doing his thing for a while longer. I certainly would've liked to have seen where JMS was going with his plot threads. I've heard here and elsewhere that Gillen did a terrific job of making it feel like the run was continuing, but I always prefer to see a creator finish what he started. Still, I now own the Gillen issues and intend to start reading them tonight.
Overall, this has been the most interesting Thor has been since the Walt Simonson era that I love so much. Though I can't say that I've read everything or even most of what's been published in the interim between Walt and JMS, I can say that this is the best Thor I've read since that point. I'm pretty confident I'll enjoy the Gillen issues from what I've heard, but the onus is now on Fraction and Ferry to see if Thor will once again be a book I follow faithfully.
Posted by Power Boy on :
hmmm.
i dropped the main Thor title slowly after coipel left ...
but, i did pick up Ultimate Thor which was one of the best Thor's I've read in a while. It's a bit straightforward but i enjoyed it.
and it's drawn by Carlos Pacheco
(not his best but still Carlos Pachecos average work is leaps and bounds beyond others)
I always found the Ultimate Thor premise to be one of the best examples of the ultimate line. 'Thor' seems fresh and interesting.
Posted by Power Boy on :
for the record though i'm not feeling the nazi invasion as the big bad:
also, what's with this general trend of humans being able to even harm an average asgardian. i thought they were all impervious to gunfire much less hacking and slashing.
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by Power Boy: also, what's with this general trend of humans being able to even harm an average asgardian. i thought they were all impervious to gunfire much less hacking and slashing.
They are terribly inconsistent with how tough Asgardians are supposed to be. Thor used to not even be bulletproof, and had to spin his hammer to deflect gunfire, and the Marvel Universe handbooks described the Asgardians as having tissues about three times as dense as human tissue, making them about as 'bulletproof' as a leather jacket or sheet of plywood.
But then Thor gets punched by Hercules or shot by Celestials or hurled down from orbit, and rises looking a little beat up, but not the drifting ash-on-the-wind he should be, if he's not any tougher than a crocodile...
Between Image and the Ultimates, there seems to be a surreal notion that knives and guns work on anything, no matter how 'invulnerable' it was twenty minutes ago. The baddest of the bad get stabbed and shot all the time, and if it 'looks cool,' then someone with a gun will be able to shoot anyone in the head and kill them, even if they have to make up some nonsense about 'quantum bullets' or whatever.
Liefield liked to draw blood, and his characters getting stabbed (and even stabbing themselves, to stab people behind them!), and was rightly and justly mocked for it.
Then Millar and Bendis jumped on that bandwagon in the Authority and the Ultimates, and were praised for their 'edginess.'
Now it shows up in mainstream comics in the 'big two' universes. I imagine we'll see Spider-Man or Captain America shanking and shooting people soon enough.
Having Asgardians be knife or bullet-proof would take away from the perverse desire to show that a knife or gun can solve *any* problem.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
^I know you're talking about early / '90's Image, Set, but FYI, the Image of today is a totally different company and quite the opposite! If anything, Image is better at story-telling these days than Marvel and DC, who have reverted to those same 90's mistakes.
I've also read the first two issues of Fraction & Ferry's Thor. So far, it's not bad, but I'm still waiting to be wowwed. I guess, in a way, that's not a good thing, because by his third issue, Fraction should have already gotten to the point.
The main problem I have with Fraction's writing on X-Men and Iron Man is all his characters are nipping at each other constantly while nothing of any real significance happens storywise. That trend isn't here yet, but it looks like it could arrive.
Meanwhile, I think Pascuel Ferry is doing an extraordinary job as always, so his art is able to improve just about any story (unlike the art on Iron Man). I like how his panels just look "bigger" than other comics out there, and he does a great job making things feel very grandiose. I've always enjoyed his work and think his unique style is a good fit here.
A few notable things:
- hate the portrayal of sullen, brooding Balder.
- like Jane Foster setting up shop with Don Blake with the two of them both being partners in a practice. This is a long overdue plot development.
- Fraction is already diving into bringing Loki back--NOOOOOOOO. We need a break from Loki.
I'll continue for awhile and update my opinions as they become clearer.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Chief Taylor: Speaking of Donald Blake, I was a little confused. The last I understood was that Blake and Thor were really the same guy all along despite all prior portrayals, but JMS definitely paints them as seperate people. I'm not sure if JMS was building on a prior writer's reversing that or if he just decided that they should always have been different people. If someone reading this can clarify, I'd appreciate it.
Lardy, historically Marvel has gone back on this several times over the years, beginning all the way back during Kirby's run. He had been on the title so long that at the latter part of his run, Stan & Jack (really Jack plotted the title by then) redid the origin of Don Blake. This was actually spurred on by a letter's page debate that erupted over the course of a few issues on the nature of Don, since the canon had produced several elements that made the initial stories not make sense.
Since then, in the 70's, the 80's and the 90's there have been stories reversing things and then re-reversing things several times.
Two summers ago when I reread most of the run I could have given you actual issue #'s but now I'm just tired and lazy. Posted by Power Boy on :
@ Set
thanks for breaking it down btw
Posted by Chief Taylor on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
quote:Originally posted by Chief Taylor: Speaking of Donald Blake, I was a little confused. The last I understood was that Blake and Thor were really the same guy all along despite all prior portrayals, but JMS definitely paints them as seperate people. I'm not sure if JMS was building on a prior writer's reversing that or if he just decided that they should always have been different people. If someone reading this can clarify, I'd appreciate it.
Lardy, historically Marvel has gone back on this several times over the years, beginning all the way back during Kirby's run. He had been on the title so long that at the latter part of his run, Stan & Jack (really Jack plotted the title by then) redid the origin of Don Blake. This was actually spurred on by a letter's page debate that erupted over the course of a few issues on the nature of Don, since the canon had produced several elements that made the initial stories not make sense.
Since then, in the 70's, the 80's and the 90's there have been stories reversing things and then re-reversing things several times.
Two summers ago when I reread most of the run I could have given you actual issue #'s but now I'm just tired and lazy.
But originally, Don Blake and Thor were introduced as two separate people, right? I'm no Thor expert by any stretch, but during Simonson's run (which is where I really got introduced to the character and his milieu), I remember it as Thor losing the ability to turn into Blake, and I got the impression there that they were essentially the same person all along. Then, much later when Jurgens relaunched the book, Thor co-existed with a teenager or college student who was definitely a separate being.
Like I said, though, the only times I've ever really read Thor were Simonson's run, a good chunk of DeFalco's run and maybe the first year of Jurgens's run. But JMS's relaunch really seems to stick out for portraying Don Blake as a different guy in anything I've ever read.
Posted by Reboot on :
No, originally-originally, Don Blake was the real guy, he found Thor's hammer and got his power in the way Johnny Storm got zapped with cosmic rays and got the original Human Torch's power without suddenly realising he was Jim Hammond all along.
That lasted about an issue, but they just flipped it so that Thor became Blake rather than Blake became Thor. I don't think there was a time Thor had a mortal switcheroonie with an separate personality (in the sense JMS had it) until Eric Masterson.
Posted by Chief Taylor on :
So you're saying that JMS's take on Blake/Thor is unprecedented the way he presents it?
Actually, in a way, JMS doesn't exactly go to any lengths to try to explain or expound upon them. The two "talk" to each other and have separate interests, but he kinda just presents it matter-of-factly as if this is the way it's always been. I suppose one could interpret as them being split personalities of the same person. I kept waiting for JMS to focus on this and give us a clear explanation, but it never happened. I just finished Gillen's run, and it was basically just ignored there, as well.
Personally, I prefer whatever explanation is the most interesting to read about. If Thor and Blake are the same guy, then Thor's no more interesting to read theoretically than Billy Batson/Captain Marvel. The way JMS presented it also feels different from, say, Rick Jones/Captain Marvel in a way that's hard to describe, but in a good way.
I own the first two Fraction issues but haven't read them yet. I hope it's in the cards for him to explore the dynamic further. Hopefully, he'll decide not to oversimplify it. How he handles this aspect will probably be the key to whether I'm onboard the book for a while.
Posted by Chief Taylor on :
Also, is Kelda still alive? Gillen's run kind of left it vague, the way he ended it. I mean, she got run through with a sword, but there was no "death scene" from what I could tell. I hope she sticks around. She has potential as a newer character in Thor's cast of characters.
...okay, it doesn't exactly hurt that she's pretty hot, too! Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I like Kelda a lot too and appreciate the newer addition to Thor's supporting cast. Since youve read Gillen's run now Lardy, it doesn't spoil things to tell you she's now shown up in Fraction's run.
Posted by Set on :
While I kinda liked Kelda, I would like to see more Asgardians who are gods of something, and not just generic people. Her role could have been filled with Freya or Idunn or Skadi or Eir or any of a half-dozen other Norse goddesses who have yet to be developed in the Marvel-verse.
Too many generic Asgardians just seem to be hanging out and not have any real mythic significance. Even if they make up a goddess named Kelda, she should be the goddess of *something,* and not just 'random hot blonde.'
Being a mythology-junkie, I'd rather that the rank and file 'Asgardians' we've been seeing be Einherjar or something, while the actual Aesir and Vanir (including Thor, Baldar, Heimdall, etc.) be the ones who are really 'gods.' Where that places comics inventions like Fandral, Hogun and Volstagg (and Kelda and Amora and Lorelei) would be up to the writers, as Kelda could become a goddess of doomed loves (heh) or something.
With the exceptions of Sif and Hela, the Marvelverse has mostly ignored the female Norse dieties, making up characters like Amora and Karnilla and Lorelei and Kelda, rather than using Frigga or Sol or Ran.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
I tend to agree, Set- however one of the goddesses you mentioned isn't really the goddess of anything. Sif hasn't got a "goddess of _________" persona, unfortunately. Either in Marvel mythology or Norse.
It is fun to imagine just what Volstagg would be the god 'of', though, isn't it? Or Fandral.
Posted by Chief Taylor on :
Whatever happened to Karnilla anyway? She hasn't shown up since JMS brought the Asgardians back. Was she killed before Ragnarok like Odin so wasn't eligible for return?
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Actually I feel like she's shown up somewhere I just can't remember where. She's one of my favorites.
Posted by Chief Taylor on :
I liked it back when she and Balder were an item. If she returned, it might give him something more to do than just mope!
And, hey, wasn't Balder's hair white?
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by Chief Taylor: Also, is Kelda still alive? Gillen's run kind of left it vague, the way he ended it. I mean, she got run through with a sword, but there was no "death scene" from what I could tell.
The sword was her soul (or, rather, the large chunk of her soul that Loki cut out), and when Thor stabbed her with it, she reabsorbed it - hence her sudden collapse to the floor in tears as her conscience came back.
quote:Originally posted by Set: While I kinda liked Kelda, I would like to see more Asgardians who are gods of something... Too many generic Asgardians just seem to be hanging out and not have any real mythic significance. Even if they make up a goddess named Kelda, she should be the goddess of *something,* and not just 'random hot blonde.'
She's a storm goddess - besides her powers, she calls herself "Kelda Stormrider" in Thor:GSF, and "mistress of the ice and lashing rain and and churning cloud" in Thor #613.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Chief Taylor: I liked it back when she and Balder were an item. If she returned, it might give him something more to do than just mope!
And, hey, wasn't Balder's hair white?
Balder's hair turned back circa Thor #400 in the late 80's in the Seth storyline, where I think Balder (then Lord of Asgard) used the Odin-power to defeat Seth. This was also when Odin returned after leaving during Simonson's run.
It's funny how Karnilla has had several eras in Thor's history where she was a hugely important supporting character. There was the mid-late Silver Age and the 1970's, and I loved when Walt reintroduced her after a brief time of not seeing her.
I'm also someone who'd like to see more Norse Gods from actual Norse mythology show up. But not all at one!! Roy Thomas did this in the early 80's and all that resulted was they showed up for a few issues and then faded out; it'd be better to have one or two show up and be part of several stories over time, and then eventually another one introduced.
And as Reboot pointed out, Kelda is not just a background citizen of Asgard but an actual Goddess.
I've always believed the Warrior's Three should be the Gods of Camaraderie (Brothers at arms, etc.). That fits them better than anything, or each one having an individual role.
Posted by Chief Taylor on :
I would be curious to see what creators worked on the book between Simonson and JMS, the lengths of their runs and some of the highlights.
As I said before, I'm pretty familiar with the DeFalco/Frenz run and its decidedly more cosmic feel. At some point I gave up on them because they seemed intent on reversing everything that Simonson had changed about the characters.
The next time I read was when Jurgens started with Romita Jr. on art. Not sure how long I stuck that one out...maybe a year or so. I think ultimately I lost interest when Romita left before very long. Nothing Jurgens wrote really set my imagination on fire either.
At some point I picked up a few issues of the Thunderstrike series. There was something about the character and the book's tone that appealed to me, but for whatever reason, I didn't stick it out. Maybe it was how Marvel was glutting the market at the time with short-lived launches of books like Slingers, Green Goblin Fantastic Five and countless others.
I don't think I picked up so much as an issue after that point. I remember Odin's death making headlines around the time Quesada was saying "dead is dead". (Like that really stuck, huh?) I know the last pre-JMS storyline involved writing by Michael Avon Oeming of Powers fame and effectively laid the groundwork for JMS to eventually bring them back.
Anyhow, Cobie (and anyone else), I wouldn't mind some more details of what happened between Simonson and JMS if you'd care to paint some brushstrokes.
Posted by Set on :
I've heard it said that whenever Aquaman becomes King of Atlantis, his book seems to falter and fade away. IMO, the same has happened to Thor. Without Odin (or Baldar sitting the throne), Thor simply can't function as an Avenger, believably, since he's kinda supposed to be hanging out on Asgard, being all kingly (unless they do that *other* thing that happens to Atlantis / Asgard / etc. whenever it's inconvenient, and blow it the hell up...).
Thor as King of Asgard (or any other superhero as King of Anywhere) works great for a limited stretch of one's own title, but really holds the character back from interaction with other characters or other parts of the universe (which is probably why Luke Cage became the go-to guy for Bendis to use as his black Avenger, while the Black Panther got left on the Island of Misfit Toys).
This could apply to others as well. Hulk couldn't stay on either of the worlds he's ended up in charge of. Namor only gets to play when he's not in charge of his version of Atlantis. Black Bolt has rulership as one of the reasons why he sucks as a character (Can't talk? We never see his thought bubbles? Wow. Talk about a crippling character to write for!).
It seems like Asgard, while a rich source of story potential to mine, can hold Thor back, if he's *too* intimately tied to it, and the original Stan Lee 'formula' of him being in kinda/sorta exile works best if he's going to be an active presence in the Marvel Universe at large.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Set: I've heard it said that whenever Aquaman becomes King of Atlantis, his book seems to falter and fade away. IMO, the same has happened to Thor. Without Odin (or Baldar sitting the throne), Thor simply can't function as an Avenger, believably, since he's kinda supposed to be hanging out on Asgard, being all kingly (unless they do that *other* thing that happens to Atlantis / Asgard / etc. whenever it's inconvenient, and blow it the hell up...).
Thor as King of Asgard (or any other superhero as King of Anywhere) works great for a limited stretch of one's own title, but really holds the character back from interaction with other characters or other parts of the universe (which is probably why Luke Cage became the go-to guy for Bendis to use as his black Avenger, while the Black Panther got left on the Island of Misfit Toys).
This could apply to others as well. Hulk couldn't stay on either of the worlds he's ended up in charge of. Namor only gets to play when he's not in charge of his version of Atlantis. Black Bolt has rulership as one of the reasons why he sucks as a character (Can't talk? We never see his thought bubbles? Wow. Talk about a crippling character to write for!).
It seems like Asgard, while a rich source of story potential to mine, can hold Thor back, if he's *too* intimately tied to it, and the original Stan Lee 'formula' of him being in kinda/sorta exile works best if he's going to be an active presence in the Marvel Universe at large.
100% agree about Thor as King of Asgard. He needs to be free to go off and have adventures, both on Earth and elsewhere, and not have kingly responsibilities to Asgard. That's why Odin's presence was so important (as well as the father/son relationship which was much more important from the 60's-Walt's run).
I think when Odin is dead/gone, which has happened a real lot of times over the years, it works better when Balder or Heimdall steps into his role (which has happened); however, this only works as a temporary solution since the idea is this should be Thor's duty, not theirs. Ipso facto, Odin being dead doesn't always work so well; Walt's idea of Odin being "missing" was a good one, as then Balder was known to the Asgardians as a temporary fix (and later Heimdall), so the question of "why isn't Thor our King?" wasn't all that pressing.
I think you are also quite correct on T'Challa and why often he doesn't work well as an Avenger. He's a favorite of mine too and I like him in the Avengers. But I don't like the idea of T'Challa losing his role as King (whereas when it happens to Namor, I'm okay with it).
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I’ve held off on talking about the Don Blake history because it’s all from memory and I could get it wrong, but I believe it goes something like this:
(1) Original appearances have Don Blake, as Reboot said, finding Thor’s hammer and basically taking on his persona. In other words, Don Blake was the actual person.
(2) Pretty soon after, it was subtly reversed so clearly Thor was the major persona. However, it was pretty unclear whether Don Blake was someone else completely or the same person. I’ve read all of these issues numerous times and it’s unclear. The reason this trend developed is first, Loki was introduced, then Odin, then Balder, and so on and so forth, so Asgard clearly was a pre-existing place.
(3) The Tales of Asgard back-up feature introduced Thor & Loki’s adventures as boys and established Thor was around much longer than Blake. These stories also introduced Thor’s adventures with the Warrior’s Three (introducing the characters) long before Don Blake.
(4) Around Thor #150 or so, a huge debate erupts in the Thor Letter’s Page as fans point out that clearly Don Blake cannot be the main person if Thor is hundreds of years older than Blake. So in Thor #158-159, Kirby & co. establish that indeed, Don Blake was a fictional personality created by Odin for Thor to show him humility (using the original origin as a starting point). It shows Don Blake’s actual first day on Earth, in college, where he first appears at least 20 years old (likely more), as Odin sent him with false memories of his life beforehand. In these issues, in modern times, Thor actually learns all this information for the first time.
(5) It stays this way for a long time, throughout the 1970’s and early 1980’s. When Don Blake shows up, his thought bubbles are in modern English, but it’s clearly Thor who is thinking them. BTW, during this time, the most complicated subplot in Thor history begins involving Sif and Jane Foster, where Sif & Jane almost have a Don Blake/Thor relationship which I won’t get into here.
(6) Since Blake wouldn’t be seen sometimes for 20 issues in a row, by the time Walt arrives, he decides Blake is no longer needed and so he famously gets rid of the personality. During Walt’s run, Thor temporarily pulls a Clark Kent type approach to his down time on Earth as Sigurd Jarlson.
That brings us to here:
quote:Originally posted by Chief Taylor: I would be curious to see what creators worked on the book between Simonson and JMS, the lengths of their runs and some of the highlights.
As I said before, I'm pretty familiar with the DeFalco/Frenz run and its decidedly more cosmic feel. At some point I gave up on them because they seemed intent on reversing everything that Simonson had changed about the characters.
The next time I read was when Jurgens started with Romita Jr. on art. Not sure how long I stuck that one out...maybe a year or so. I think ultimately I lost interest when Romita left before very long. Nothing Jurgens wrote really set my imagination on fire either.
At some point I picked up a few issues of the Thunderstrike series. There was something about the character and the book's tone that appealed to me, but for whatever reason, I didn't stick it out. Maybe it was how Marvel was glutting the market at the time with short-lived launches of books like Slingers, Green Goblin Fantastic Five and countless others.
I don't think I picked up so much as an issue after that point. I remember Odin's death making headlines around the time Quesada was saying "dead is dead". (Like that really stuck, huh?) I know the last pre-JMS storyline involved writing by Michael Avon Oeming of Powers fame and effectively laid the groundwork for JMS to eventually bring them back.
Anyhow, Cobie (and anyone else), I wouldn't mind some more details of what happened between Simonson and JMS if you'd care to paint some brushstrokes.
DeFalco and Frenz came in following Walt and Sal Buscema’s exit (since Walt was only writing the series at that point) and it sounds like you have a good sense of the beginning of their run. DeFalco and Frenz throughout their run were very much inspired by the mid to later part of Kirby’s original run, giving it a more cosmic feel, with adventures in space and the like. Some of the things that happened were:
- Introduction of Leir and the Celtic Gods, the Earth Force and the Black Knight becomes a recurring supporting character (following his exit from the Avengers). - Return of the Celestials for the first time since Roy Thomas’ mega story culminating in Thor #300. The Celestials returned a few times during this run. - High Evolutionary plays a big part. - Thor “ages 1,000 years” via the Celestials which actually leads to him losing his beard and the scar on his face healing. - Thor’s original costume is restored. - The big story that culminates in Thor #400 is the rise of Seth and his assault on Asgard. This featured just about every single character at the time. Some of the things that happened were Balder uses the Odin power and the end result is he gets his brown hair back, and more importantly, Odin and Surtur return at last. Thor is able to finally beat Surtur and Odin is restored; however, Odin is exhausted from battling Surtur all this time and so immediately goes into the Odin sleep. Odin also now once again has both eyes. - Also during this battle, Amora’s sister Lorelei dies. It should be noted there were many other supporting characters at this time (Kurse, Balder’s squire that Walt introduced, etc.). They are all still alive, but just faded into obscurity.
During the run, one of the major things to happen was Thor and Eric Masterson combine together into one being. IIRC, and I’ve only read the issue one time, Masterson sacrificed himself for Thor and was on the verge of death; Thor, seeing Eric’s young son and moved by the noble sacrifice, imparted a part of his life force into him (or something). Thus, Masterson was the regular personality but when he hit his cane on the ground, he became Thor. This is *like* the Don Blake/Thor relationship but different, as Reboot points out, as they are clearly two separate people.
Post Thor #400, some other plot elements: - I think around this time, with Odin in the Odinsleep, Balder steps down after his recent ordeal and Heimdall becomes temporary leader of Asgard. This leads to a tension with Amora and the subsequent end of their relationship. - Return of the Recorder, Ego the Living Planet and others. - Hercules becomes Thor’s temporary co-star once again (like in the 70’s) and they hunt down the Wrecking Crew for revenge (from Stern’s Avengers story). - Thor and Sif break apart even further and Sif becomes more enamored with Beta Ray Bill. She cuts all her hair off and goes off on some space quest. It’s actually a cool subplot involving the Celestials and Ego the Living Planet, hinting at an even larger living galaxy (the entire Black Galaxy) but DeFalco could never finish this plot.
Around this time, and I can’t remember how, something happens to Thor where he basically dies or is lost or something happens to his soul (like I said, I can’t remember). What essentially happens then is that Eric Masterson’s personality suddenly becomes in control of Thor’s body. So Thor is still Thor in powers & body, but it’s Eric’s personality. I think this is what leads to Sif leaving with Beta Ray Bill. Most of Asgard and Earth is not aware of this. I think this happens prior to the issue, but essentially #433 launches this new era: Thor once again has a big beard, and the “Walt helmet” but the rest of the costume is the classic. When you see Thor in this garb, it means it’s the Eric Masterson Thor. Thor is also in the Avengers in this way during this time (I think this is during Operation Galactic Storm).
Other things that happen: - The Thor Corps is introduced: Thor, Beta Ray Bill and the Thor of the Future (who DeFalco introduced). - Bloodaxe is introduced, Thuderstrike’s nemesis, wielding something similar to the Executioner’s axe (that was whom Bloodaxe was meant to invoke but in a 90’s way).
In #449-450 the big story is Odin wakes up at long last and wonder where the hell Thor is. #449 has a really great cover that shows this. It leads to all kinds of craziness but ultimately, Odin resumes his role as King of Asgard at long last, about 100 issues after Walt phased him out. He doesn’t get many answers however, as Eric remains Thor, and vows to find the real Thor for Odin. By this time, most of Asgard has returned to normal pre-Walt, except for Sif, who is still trying to find herself. She subsequently rejoins the cast in hopes to find Thor. (There may have been a story with Odin possessed or influenced by Loki but I can’t remember; it’s eventually resolved).
Ultimately, it’s revealed that Mephisto is the one who has Thor’s soul. Eric/Thor, Sif and others battle Mephisto and at long last, free Thor and Thor is restored back to normal. Issue #458 has a great Thor vs. Eric/Thor cover, which is a tribute to the Kirby original Thor vs. Hercules cover. Thor is restored back to his normal self so that he is simply just Thor again, and Eric becomes simply Eric Masterson again. What happens next is Thor and Odin are both so moved by Eric’s heroism and sacrifice that Odin grants Eric the “Thunderstrike”, a Mjolnir-like weapon (with a pre-existing history) which he can use to become Thunderstrike, the character you remember.
Thunderstrike spins out into his own series with DeFalco and Frenz, battles Bloodaxe, rejoins the Avengers and as legend has it, actually out-sells Thor. Marvel didn’t like that and supposedly worked to get it cancelled. I believe in the final issue, Thunderstrike is killed. Which is a shame because Eric Masterson is a GREAT character. Often disliked by hardcore Thor fans because he overtook Thor’s title for a time, I think he’s an important part of Thor’s history and deserves some respect.
Meanwhile, now restored to his own comic, Thor resumes as lead of the series. Unfortunately, the quality of the title began to slide pretty quickly. Jim Starlin did a number of unnecessarily long Infinity Gauntlet tie-in issues, followed by several Ron Marz Silver Surfer tie-in issues. Next was a low point in Thor history as Roy Thomas returned; it was ‘low’ because of IMO lack of quality—stories that just weren’t good. The art was by M.C. Wyman (I had to look that up) and it was obviously a 1990’s Rob Liefield-esque look, attempting to look like Image Comics and the X-comics, like many other poor Marvel comics of this era. Thor gained the worst costume of his career.
Thomas did a few stories that should have been left alone: he did a Kurse/Malekith story, and he brought back Red Norvell, the other Thor, who he introduced in 1980 (in an excellent, classic, all-time great Thor story). Neither was that good. Another thing he did that was completely not needed, was: restore Don Blake (tying this back into the original few paragraphs). In typical Roy-fashion, he put in some retcons that further complicated things and really didn’t make much sense; but it was here for the first time that Roy established that Don Blake was actually a person and NOT a creation of Odin. Thus, much like Eric Masterson & Thor had a symbiotic type relationship, Roy Thomas was saying that is what happened with Don Blake and Thor. The big question then is: where has Don Blake been since Walt Simonson’s run? Roy Thomas answered that (I forget where) and brought him back.
Ultimately, it was such a confusing story, and no one really cared, so I believe, the next writer simply chose to ignore it. Enter Warren Ellis and Mike Deodato Jr. for an incredible, yet very brief story arc from #491-494. I remember thinking at the time this was the best Thor had been in quite a long time, but before it even took off, the run was over. Here, Thor shed his crappy costume and was basically shirtless and capeless; Amora returned and for the first time ever in comics entered into a real relationship with Thor; Thor was estranged from Asgard and the series took on a new tone. Ellis quickly left but the excellent William Messner-Loeb came in to join Deodato. It appeared things were turning around…and then Heroes Reborn happened and shit all over the MU. And suddenly Thor, like Cap, Iron Man, the FF and the Avengers was gone.
But…Thor was the only one who didn’t get his own title by Lee and Liefield. It seems that things had gotten so bad and Thor sold so badly post-Walt that Liefield didn’t think it was worth doing a Thor title. So not missing a trick, Marvel turned Thor back into Journey into Mystery for several issues focusing on Thor’s supporting cast (while Heroes Reborn Thor appeared in Liefield’s Avengers), and Tom DeFalco came back to write about them. This is the “Lost Gods” story starring Sif, Balder, Odin, Red Norvel, The Warrior’s Three, Loki, Tyr, Hermod and a few others as Seth ultimately returns for a rematch from #400. During this time, the Lost Gods were stuck on Earth in human guises, but ultimately beat Seth and return to Asgard. I remember the last story being pretty vague on whether they go back to Asgard.
After Heroes Reborn ended, the heroes came back to Marvel and all got their own titles…except once again, Thor. However, he did come back in Avengers as Busiek reestablished Asgard and Thor once more. This led then to the Jurgens/Romita Jr. relaunch which you know Lardy. Here, Thor once again needed a human host to live (or something like that) while Odin was missing, and so Jake Olsen, a young paramedic (about mid-20’s I think), gained a relationship with Thor very similar to Eric Masterson and Thor had. Interestingly, Thor retained all of Don Blake’s old memories because Jake Olsen had great surgical skills that he had to hide. Whether Jake was an actual person or Thor in Jake’s body was somewhat ambiguous.
During Jurgen’s run first he did the Dark Gods story which restored Asgard at last to it’s normal status-quo pre-Walt, then he redid a lot of Walt’s stories but not as good and that was annoying. It was here, once again, he did a storyline like Walt where Odin and Surtur basically destroy each other AGAIN. Thor once more feels the need to become King of Asgard. It was here that super-long and super-boring King of Asgard story ran, where Thor becomes King, gets corrupted by power, Amora is queen and so and so forth. It’s not important because ultimately, at the story’s end, it was all wiped away from the timeline. How far back did the timeline go? Well, that is equally unclear.
What is clear is the comic was a mess and selling at its lowest point ever. Enter Mike Avon Oeming who came in for 6 issues with the intentions of doing only the best Ragnarok story ever. He brought back almost ever single supporting character and villain ever in Thor history (I’m talking about even Durok the Demolisher), and eventually every single character died. Thor eventually closes out Ragnarok and Asgard and all of its citizens die. What is important is Oeming made it a point that this was the last and final Ragnarok and the cycle was broken.
And that leads us to JMS’s run, where JMS makes it a point to also say there will be no further Ragnarok’s.
So, what did you miss? Not much. DeFalco & Frenz had some important points, but everything other than that, except for a very brief Ellis/Messner-Loebs/Deodato run, is worth skipping and has little impact. All you might be curious about is Roy Thomas’s bringing back Don Blake (which was confusing at best) and the Jake Olsen / Thor relationship, which ultimately was forgotten about and no longer applies post-Oeming.
Posted by Chief Taylor on :
Thanks, Cobester--very informative! I knew I could count on you!
I'm not entirely sure how long I stuck with DeFalco/Frenz, but it was at least a couple years. Sounds like they had a really, really long run. Frenz's art was probably the biggest turn-off for me at the time. I mean, you just can't get much farther from Walt's style thn that, eh? The stories weren't bad, but the art bothered me.
Nowadays, I think I have more appreciation for Ron Frenz and might look at the issues quite a bit differently if I reread them. That's the problem with following such a legendary run: it's pretty much guaranteed to disappoint fans of that run.
It also just felt too retro and Kirby-worshipping. I mean, they brought back the old costume, brought back Odin almost instantly and brought all the characters back to their Kirby designs (hell I didn't recognize Surtur!), among other rollbacks. In retrospect it was a lot more progressive than it appeared with some of the ideas they were throwing out, but that's how it is when you follow a legendary run like Simonson's.
As for Don Blake, it sounds like we really need a "Secret Origin of Don Blake" issue of Thor, but I doubt we'll ever get one. A lot of times, when a new status quo is established, it just is and no one ever bothers to explain it. For right now, I'm enjoying it anyway. It adds something to the book, and it gives Jane Foster a reason to be around. (Curious, though, about the Jane Foster and Sif thing with Blake and Thor you alluded to above--sounds kinky! )
Posted by Reboot on :
Just a few points re: Cobalt's post: *Jake Olsen was killed. Thor was then turned *into* Olsen - but, as with Blake, was still "Thor with a 'modern' speech pattern and mortal body", rather than a Masterson/Thor or current-Blake/Thor relationship. Later Thor was split in two, but the "Olsen half" was still Thor, and the remaining "Thor half" went a bit crazy from being split. *The timeline was rewound twelve issues, from Thor #78 to #67, immediately before "the Olsen half" was killed. Future-Thor remerged the two. [Jurgens had planned to go on longer, and bring Future-Thor's son Magni back to the present to be "Thor" while Thor took on Odin's role fully, but was cut very short] *I believe that one of the complications with Thomas' Blake thing was that the "real Blake" had been in stasis since Thor took his place, and was killed by Loki's girlfriend, who left a duplicate in his place. It should also be noted that all the 2004 Avengers Handbook had to say about that was "Accounts claiming that Don Blake was a normal man... replaced by Thor are false" , JMS would later treat it like Blake hadn't been heard of since Odin got rid of him in Simonson's run (saying that he was sent to Oblivion by "the Odinspell"). *I believe DeFalco's claim that TS outsold Thor has been disproven.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Chief Taylor: Thanks, Cobester--very informative! I knew I could count on you!
I'm not entirely sure how long I stuck with DeFalco/Frenz, but it was at least a couple years. Sounds like they had a really, really long run. Frenz's art was probably the biggest turn-off for me at the time. I mean, you just can't get much farther from Walt's style thn that, eh? The stories weren't bad, but the art bothered me.
Nowadays, I think I have more appreciation for Ron Frenz and might look at the issues quite a bit differently if I reread them. That's the problem with following such a legendary run: it's pretty much guaranteed to disappoint fans of that run.
It also just felt too retro and Kirby-worshipping. I mean, they brought back the old costume, brought back Odin almost instantly and brought all the characters back to their Kirby designs (hell I didn't recognize Surtur!), among other rollbacks. In retrospect it was a lot more progressive than it appeared with some of the ideas they were throwing out, but that's how it is when you follow a legendary run like Simonson's.
Yeah, DeFalco and Frenz were on the title for a LONG time, from #383 to #460, plus 25 issues of Thunderstrike and then a bunch of issues of A-Next, the title taking place in Spider-Girl’s timeline that also included an older version of Eric Masterson’s son and many of the supporting cast members from their Thor run. I think they had the second longest Thor run other than Kirby (though probably John Buscema did more issues than Frenz, just not consecutively).
I personally think they had a pretty solid run. Not as good as Walt, but certainly IMO a great run worth owning and rereading. I think you summed up exactly why many didn’t think so at the time, and that was because they were following a phenomenal, game-changing run. They never had a chance because they were only going to be compared to Walt’s stuff. I personally think the best Thor runs of all time are (1) Kirby and (2) Walt, but even though Kirby originated everything about the series, if someone made a case for Walt to have had the greatest run of all time, I certainly can see where they are coming from.
I’ve also grown to love Frenz’s artwork over time. It definitely was a bit more traditional and Kirby-esque (especially then, as he’s grown a bit overtime), but I thought it was solid and you can tell Frenz was pouring his heart into it. He also had Brett Breeding, one of the best inkers in comics. Breeding over Jurgen’s pencils on Superman was probably my favorite Superman art possibly of all time; he did an equally great job on Thor.
But you can see how you weren’t the only one to feel the way you did Lardy. Even though Walt had left, it was in Thor that Marvel chose to introduce the New Warriors for the first time. Yet by the end of D&F’s run, the title’s sales dropped drastically, and like I said, Thunderstrike would soon be beating the mean title.
One thing I agree on though is they undid a bit too much of what Walt had established, even though a lot of that was just on the surface (as Odin did not actually return to rule Asgard until after their run had ended). But something they did was build on Walt established: they kept Beta Ray Bill a part of the series, used Kurse, used Balder’s Squire (Andor? I’ve got to find his name), evolved the Heimdall/Amora relationship, evolved the Sif/Bill relationship, developed the human supporting cast Walt introduced, and other things. I think some of what they undid that was glaring was more visual, like you say, especially the looks of Thor, Balder, Surtur, etc.
quote:Originally posted by Chief Taylor: As for Don Blake, it sounds like we really need a "Secret Origin of Don Blake" issue of Thor, but I doubt we'll ever get one. A lot of times, when a new status quo is established, it just is and no one ever bothers to explain it. For right now, I'm enjoying it anyway. It adds something to the book, and it gives Jane Foster a reason to be around. (Curious, though, about the Jane Foster and Sif thing with Blake and Thor you alluded to above--sounds kinky! )
The Jane / Sif thing is actually an interesting bit of Thor tivia from the 70’s and a clear case of writer and editorial mishaps. As you know, Jane Foster was both Don and Thor’s love interest in the beginning, from his first appearance up until Thor #132. A few issues earlier, Jane had learned Don & Thor were one and the same, and now Thor was attempting to bring her to Asgard so she could marry him and take her place among the Gods. It was in this issue where unfortunately in Thor, it was shown how living in Asgard was too much for a mortal mind to handle and Jane was unable to take it. Thus, Odin erased her memory of it and she was phased out of the series. In this same issue, Sif is introduced. Hereafter, Sif becomes Thor’s love interest for the 2nd half of the Silver Age and beyond.
Jane showed up 2 more times in the Silver Age, in #172 and one other one (I think a Circus of Crime issue), but for the most part, Sif was in and Jane was out and that was the way it was. After Jack left Marvel and it was obvious Stan wasn’t really a part of the Thor creative process, there was a brief Neal Adams run and then a status quo was established with young Gerry Conway (I think he was only 19) and John Buscema. Conway was already a successful dime-store science fiction novelist and with his arrival the series took a heavy science-fiction approach. Many of the great Space Odyssey stories in Thor were by Conway.
Conway was also really great about developing the supporting cast (as also evidenced in his Spider-Man run). The cast expanded greatly over his 50 or so issues. Interestingly, near the end, Conway completely changed the supporting cast. It was here, somewhere in the 220’s that Hercules came back into the series and actually stuck around, basically becoming Thor’s partner. This was the era when every Marvel comic was a team-up or team comic. Daredevil gained the Black Widow, Cap already had the Falcon and now Thor basically gained Hercules for a few issues. The supporting cast focused more on Krista, a long forgotten little sister to the Valkrye Brunnhilda, and Sif. And then Gerry went even further and reintroduced Jane Foster for the first time. Except, unlike before, Jane was not in love with some guy named Keith Kincaid and living a great life, but actually she really missed and loved Don Blake and Thor again.
Gerry was on the cusp of developing a love triangle/quadrangle with Don & Thor / Sif / Jane and somewhere in the late 230’s (I think maybe #236), Jane was caught in a battle and on the verge of death…when Sif decided that she would give her life essence instead, to save Jane!
Note, this is almost exactly the same thing Thor did for Eric Masterson 20 years later. What happens is then Sif “kind of” dies, while Jane lives, albeit, with the life essence of Sif inside her. She isn’t actually able to change into Sif or anything, or hear her thoughts. In fact, we didn’t know what Gerry meant by it because three or so issues later, Gerry suddenly left the title! I know there was some editorial hubbub that Prof probably knows around why Gerry left.
What happens next is Roy Thomas comes on and almost completely ignores the Jane/Sif change, instead of focusing on actual storylines that needed to be tied up (like the first time Thor fought Seth). Roy has Bill Mantlo do an issue or two, and then finally a new writer is brought in, Len Wein.
Len hits the ground running hoping to tell the Thor stories he’s always wanted to, including a Zarko the Tomorrow Man story where they go into the future (which introduces the Time Twisters). Here, Len brings back the usual supporting cast (Warrior’s 3, Balder) but with Jane replacing Sif. What is interesting is that during this storyline, Jane shows a ferocious warrior’s spirit that they all speculate is the life essence of Lady Sif, and then actually uses Sif’s natural abilities to travel through space & time (another almost universally forgotten power Sif has always had).
For something like 12 issues then, Len doesn’t mention a word about Sif, and Jane just serves as Thor’s regular love interest. It must have driven readers nuts back then. Realizing he has to clear this up (and he obviously could care less about it), he finally tries to fit this subplot into his big story for #250, which was the third major Mangog story for Thor. I just read this two summer’s ago and it was confusing and vague enough where I can hardly remember what the whole gist of it was. But somehow at story’s end, Sif is restored back to normal, and it looks like Jane Foster has now died! And then in a throwaway sequence, Jane Foster is revealed to have lived and now sent back to Earth…where she is completely and utterly ignored for YEARS! I think maybe Odin had something to do with it, but it really made no sense.
What is so crazy is that the issue where Jane takes on Sif’s life essence is so confusing it doesn’t really make sense how it happened. And then the issue where it’s resolved is even more so. But in the middle, there were some serious hints of Jane taking on Sif’s personality and maybe gaining what she needed to join the Gods after-all, which was a really groovy subplot. Couple that in with large numbers of issues at a time where it isn’t even mentioned.
And it also shows a precedence for the Thor/Eric Masterson stuff.
Also interesting is that in this story, there is another ‘At last! The TRUE Origin of Don Blake!’ story in which another confusing element of the Don Blake/Thor origin comes into play. I don’t think the in larger picture it actually changes the above outline too much, but it shows you that once again another writer decided to play with it a bit. So while an “Origin of Don Blake” issue might be needed, know that they’ve had like 5 of them over the years and they’ve only ever served to make things worse, or at least more complicated.
(I think this Origin of Don Blake bit was used to help show how Sif was restored to life, or something…)
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Reboot: Just a few points re: Cobalt's post: *Jake Olsen was killed. Thor was then turned *into* Olsen - but, as with Blake, was still "Thor with a 'modern' speech pattern and mortal body", rather than a Masterson/Thor or current-Blake/Thor relationship. Later Thor was split in two, but the "Olsen half" was still Thor, and the remaining "Thor half" went a bit crazy from being split. *The timeline was rewound twelve issues, from Thor #78 to #67, immediately before "the Olsen half" was killed. Future-Thor remerged the two. [Jurgens had planned to go on longer, and bring Future-Thor's son Magni back to the present to be "Thor" while Thor took on Odin's role fully, but was cut very short] *I believe that one of the complications with Thomas' Blake thing was that the "real Blake" had been in stasis since Thor took his place, and was killed by Loki's girlfriend, who left a duplicate in his place. It should also be noted that all the 2004 Avengers Handbook had to say about that was "Accounts claiming that Don Blake was a normal man... replaced by Thor are false" , JMS would later treat it like Blake hadn't been heard of since Odin got rid of him in Simonson's run (saying that he was sent to Oblivion by "the Odinspell"). *I believe DeFalco's claim that TS outsold Thor has been disproven.
All good stuff, 'Boot! I knew I could count on you for some of the details.
The Thomas stuff with Blake I remember being almost immediately ignored.
Posted by Chief Taylor on :
Lots of fun, informative stuff coming out of our explorations of Thor's history. Honestly, with the character and his (literal) mythology, there is just limitless potential for this to be one of the best comics among the Big Two. I mean, on Thor, a writer can tell any kind of story he wants to and an artist can just go absolutely batshit and stretch his storytelling to its limits.
It's sad that so many creators have missed the mark over the character's long history of publication. From what I hear Fraction and Ferry have gotten off to kind of a slow start. A book like Thor...you've really gotta hit the ground running like Simonson did. It's a book that I really, REALLY want to like, but if it's gonna earn 4 of my hard-earned bucks every month, it better perform quickly! Otherwise, I'll pass.
As for Don Blake and Thor, I think the best possible way to marry the discrepancies with how that's been portrayed is to presume that the most generally-accepted explanation, that the two were always the same, is correct. The rub here is that over time Thor has developed a split personality from all the time he has spent in a mortal body living a mortal life. This became more pronounced after Thor died during Ragnarok and Blake continued to exist in some place outside time and space, to the extent that the personalities have in fact entirely separated and become distinct entities.
Still, though, the two are bound together and cannot both exist separately in the same place. Hence, the need for them to switch places and the necessity of them having a symbionic relationship.
Sounds decent to me, anyway, and makes more sense than just saying that Don Blake was in fact always a separate being from Thor when most of the evidence is to the contrary.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
So something I couldn't pass up is Warriors Three for several reasons: they are three of my favorite supporting characters in the history of comics since I was a kid, they rarely get their own solo stories and Bill Willingham of Fables is writing it. And I wasn't let down.
Willingham lends his Fables-esque quirkiness, humor and love of mythology to the story in a way that makes it feel completely different from anything we've ever seen before. The Warriors Three can sometimes be a bit one note (re: Walt Simonson once said sure, Hogun was one note, but what a really good note), but Willingham makes this feel like a separate tone here than previous. I quite like it.
Penciler Neil Edwards does a great job showcasing fantasy, science and Oklahoma; his art is very Bryan Hitch-y. What puts it over the top is the inking by Scott Hanna which makes it feel much cleaner than Hitch's art.
I always like to think of the Warriors Three as the "deities of camaraderie and" that comes across here, as it should!
Posted by Set on :
I was dreading this movie, but I kinda like this trailer better than the last snippets I saw.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Wow, I think that looks pretty good! I'm actually excited for the Thor movie. It looks a lot better than Green Lantern (not saying much) and so far better than Captain America (but to be fair, we haven't seen much of that film yet other than stills).
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
I'm a bit underwhelmed by the most recent issues. Each one feels kind of like it's the same installment told from a slightly different angle. It's time to get on with facing the looming threat...
At least Click Here For A Spoiler Odin's back, apparently
What that means for Balder and others should prove interesting to read.
I think they should've left Loki 'offscreen' for longer. Surely Amora or Hela or a Frost Giant prince or something could've filled the Asgardian villain role for awhile.
How long till Asgard is back 'atop' the World Tree, do you reckon? I think the basic plot behind this story is more than sound- necessary even.
What I'd really like to read is a sort-of contemporary sequel to THOR: SON OF ASGARD- with Thor, Balder, Sif, Loki and Valkyrie forced on some adventure or another and having to deal with each other for a few months (of readers' time).
Posted by Set on :
Loki as villain gets old, considering his fated betrayal at Ragnarok has been told, retold, undone and avoided at least twice, so far.
I think my favorite Loki moment was at the end of the Simonson run, when Surtr was attacking Asgard, and Loki sided with Odin and Thor against him. "For Asgard!" "For Midgard!" "For me!"
I like him better as unreliable resource, than cackling bad-guy, who inevitably gets his butt kicked. He's smart enough, that he should like that role better, too, after all the experience at getting his butt kicked he's gotten over the years...
I certainly don't want him to become a hero, or get redeemed, or, heaven forfend, become *nice,* but he's already got ridiculous power, and is a prince of Asgard, so there's little reason for him to be constantly plotting for no real gain.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
Well, right now he's a prepubescent boy. Not that that would exclude him from any plotting- though it would make plausible the 'no real gain' thing.
Hmmm- a meeting between current Loki and current Zeus would seem to be a natural, wouldn't it?
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: Hmmm- a meeting between current Loki and current Zeus would seem to be a natural, wouldn't it?
When was the last time you read HercuPoPos War?
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
In catching up with the most recent Thor issues, I'm finding my feelings about the story are generally conflicted: on the one hand, I really don't like the actual storyline(s) being presented (in other words what is actually happening). On the other hand, this is by far the best story-telling on Matt Fraction's part I've seen from him thus far.
In terms of Loki returning (rather quickly), Odin returning, another unstoppable alien conqueror race invading, etc, I'm getting a general sense of 'been there, done that'. In other words, I'm finding it all rather bland. Though Odin has been gone awhile, in the sense of Thor's almost 50 year history, the notion of Odin returning to the cast makes me worry the series will revert to the same old, same old. I also agree with Set regarding Loki's place, but more than anything right now I need Thor as a series to be Loki-free for a good few years.
In terms of the actual story-telling, I'm actually finding it to be really tightly paced with numerous characters interacting and playing a part which makes the individual sequences very exciting. Quite a lot of this, I'm sure, is because artist Pasqual Ferry who only seems to have gotten even more superb over time. He has a very fluid style that also captures the sense of granduer Thor sould have. He backgrounds are detailed and other-worldly while his primary players are full of force.
I guess I like the individual trees but the forest is rather dull. I've generally hated Fraction's work thus far (or at least was 'meh' about it until his more recent stuff have devolved into a more 'hate' opinion). So saying this is his best effort is saying much.
I do love these characters and am glad to see so many of them playing a part still. Fraction has a tendency to use 3-4 characters (if that) while others fade into the backgrounds.
Posted by Chief Lardy on :
I read Thor #618 and am left on the fence whether I'll by next week's issue.
Why? Well to say the issues of Fraction and Ferry's run to date have been decompressed would be an understatement! I mean what we've gotten so far is 4 issues of looming threat! How long is a threat supposed to loom before it actually threatens anyway?!?!
I mean, I can see that Fraction is attempting to set the table of Asgard's new status quo (which btw is looking more and more like everything will look more and more exactly like it was pre-Ragnarok, I believe), but I can see this dragging even in trade form! In fact it looks like next issue everything will still loom with all of the carnage likely to start breaking out in the issue after that one!
There's some interesting stuff going on, but there's very little to keep you anxious for the next issue. It's reading like a movie where the director just couldn't delete any scenes, even the ones that were repetitive. If you're gonna charge $3.99 a pop, I think the readers should get a lot more bang for their buck. I like character development and world-building as much as the next bloke, but Thor is by definition a larger-than-life, rollicking adventure. It suffers from lacking those elements to this point.
It's a shame because Pascual Ferry is doing brilliant work on the interiors. His style here reminds me of a Manapul/Romita Jr. hybrid with a slicker edge. And the colors by Matt Hollingsworth are pitch-perfect. And seeing John Workman's letters on a Thor book again really does the heart good. If I buy the next issue, their work will be the principle reason.
As it stands, it'll be a "gametime decision". I'll flip through the book and decide on the spot whether it goes home with me. I'm pretty sure it will end with the confrontation finally imminent. But it may be too little, too late for me.
Lardy's rating for Thor 618: 2 Donuts (out of 5)
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Outrageously decompressed stories seems to be a staple of Fraction's writing. I'm definitely not a fan.
Posted by profh0011 on :
Isn't it amazing how Jack Kirby's TALES OF ASGARD (which he plotted 100% on his own from the beginning), with never more than 4 panels to a page, managed to tell more story in fewer pages than many modern writers?
Posted by Reboot on :
Well, frankly, a lot of those Tales of Asgard backups were practically montages rather than stories, with great hallufin' time jumps between individual panels. Compare the 5-page "how Thor lifted the hammer" backup from JiM #102 to the ~66 page retelling in Thor: Son of Asgard #10-12. The latter actually has PACING.
In other news, Relaunch Alert.
Posted by Chief Lardy on :
quote:Originally posted by Reboot: In other news, Relaunch Alert.
^Yeah, I saw that. I wonder how long it'll take JiM to melt back into Thor for a numbering stunt again? Le barf.
Seeing Coipel back for the initial 5-issue arc is tempting, but one has to wonder how far ahead he is on the pencils. Given Marvel's track record, I'm not optimistic that the book's post-#1 issues will ship on time.
And apparently, the giant arc that's had all this build-up without anything actually happening will end in March? REALLY?!?!
The odds of me picking up tomorrow's issue just got that much slimmer....
Posted by Chief Lardy on :
Flipped thru Thor 619 today and decided to give it a pass. It looked like the action was picking up, but I feel it was still somehow more of the same. I'll just keep the $4 in my pocket, thank you.
Oddly enough, Fraction's Casanova is SO much better than his other stuff! Le sigh.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
THOR 619: It's kind of a neat thing to read a 'skyfather god' telling a story to an assemblage of his 'charges'. I thought the art here was nicely evocative. I particularly liked the World Tree, though that image often does tend to bring out the best of an artist. Too bad the story ends in Odin having a giant hissy-fit directed at newly-young Loki and then another one at Thor. The former without the latter might've indicated a new approach at parenting Odin's Trickster godchild, one which might've resulted in a Norse god of mischief who isn't eeeeevil. But since there is the latter, I guess all that's signified is the pissed-offness of the King of Asgard.
Iron Man/Jane Foster/ what's his name-- their scene was amusing, but was it necessary? It's time for this story to kick into a higher gear. Thor fan admission- I've never liked Jane Foster. In Thor titles, I vastly prefer Sif as Thor's love interest. In other books, I've enjoyed Jane's appearances. There, I can appreciate the sense of tragedy that, to me, seems to cling to her. I like that a former nurse has become a doctor and I enjoy when that aspect to her is stressed. In Thor, to me, she'll always be the baffling love that Thor can't seem to leave alone.
The battle between Tyr, Balder and the evil gods (they're red! they must be evil!) ends murkily. *Is* Tyr dead? Did his wish come true? What about Balder? I hope Thor and Loki, shown to be on the way, can revive them.
I hope the red gods get some individual character devlopment. In every pantheon, there's a god or two who go against the grain of their peers. Might Loki's couterpart in the Uthana Thoth ally with the Asgardians?
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: So something I couldn't pass up is Warriors Three for several reasons: they are three of my favorite supporting characters in the history of comics since I was a kid, they rarely get their own solo stories and Bill Willingham of Fables is writing it. And I wasn't let down.
Willingham lends his Fables-esque quirkiness, humor and love of mythology to the story in a way that makes it feel completely different from anything we've ever seen before. The Warriors Three can sometimes be a bit one note (re: Walt Simonson once said sure, Hogun was one note, but what a really good note), but Willingham makes this feel like a separate tone here than previous. I quite like it.
Penciler Neil Edwards does a great job showcasing fantasy, science and Oklahoma; his art is very Bryan Hitch-y. What puts it over the top is the inking by Scott Hanna which makes it feel much cleaner than Hitch's art.
I always like to think of the Warriors Three as the "deities of camaraderie and" that comes across here, as it should!
As I near the end of a huge pile I was getting through for Comic Book Review Month, I finally got around to reading Warriors Three #2, after enjoying the first issue (and being a long time fan of the characters). While it wasn’t bad, something that stuck out was the revised origins of the Warriors Three which didn’t work for me. Particularly Hogan, who previously has been known to be a warrior from another kingdom (basically like the Huns). This was annoying enough to take me out of the story.
The Neil Edwards artwork is a lot like Bryan Hitch, which also means it has a lot of the problems Hitch’s art has. He also doesn’t quite capture the dynamic widescreen feel Hitch goes for.
I really want to like this series, but it’s been pretty ‘okay’ so far and not great. I’m not sure if I’ll finish the mini.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
WARRIORS THREE #3: Volstagg, Hogun and Fandral are always good for a laugh and their dialogue here is written with that in mind. The premise of the story is that A.I.M. has recently captured the god-doggie, Fenris. Except, Fenris has escaped, destroying an A.I.M. installation while doing so. Fenris' time with A.I.M. wasn't strictly a period of imprisonment, though. There was a bit of a trade going on. A.I.M. taught Fenris how to access the power to shape-shift, apparently inherited from the wolf's sire, Loki. Funny, I always thought Loki's shape-changes were learned-magic in nature. Guess I shouldn't assume...!
In return, Fenris provided "blood and other biologics" for A.I.M.'s "project Valkyr", the goal of which was to create human/Asgardian hybrids.
Helen Gamble, sole survivor of Fenris' escape, is just such a hybrid. The last one, according to her. She aids the W3 as they pursue Fenris to Oklahoma, current home to Asgard. She seems like a capable, even likeable sort. Even helpful. She 'wants to clean up her own mess'. But the W3 shouldn't forget- SHE'S AN A.I.M. AGENT!
Actually, I kind of like that an Asgardian's sense of 'good and evil' isn't as cut and dried as our 'Midgardly' definitions. Hopefully, the W3 aren't *quite* as gullible as they come off here, even considering differences in moral evaluations.
I *do* think that crafting Asgardian/human hybrids should be much, much, MUCH more of a difficult thing that A.I.M. shouldn't come close to being able to accomplish with their science. Not even close to close.
Posted by Set on :
While I'd be annoyed if they were able to craft human/skrull or human/eternal hybrids willy-nilly, the Asgardians do have a long history of being able to interbreed with just about anything that moves.
Odin has knocked up a giantess, and, in the comics, a goddess of another pantheon entirely (Gaia), Loki has done the deed with humans, giants and farm animals (being the 'mother' of Sleipnir, Odin's eight-legged horse, as well as the father of Fenris, Jormungandr and Hel), etc. Asgardian (and Olympian, etc.) 'genetics' might be particularly well-suited to blending with others.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
Yeah- if a god does the breeding. But in A.I.M.'s test tubes? I don't think so.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I'm really finding Fraction's dialogue for Thor and Odin annoying. In fact, Fraction is starting to become a writer I avoid entirely (which there very few).
Posted by Chief Lardy on :
^Casanova's better than anything Fraction's done in the MU, IMO.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
You know, I just couldn't get into Casanova for some reason. It had a lot of things I like about comics, uniqueness being one of those things, but I didn't really enjoy the first two issues. Still, I appreciated what they were trying to do.
But Fraction's Thor is quickly becoming like his Iron Man and Uncanny X-Men. Namely: bad.
Posted by Zero Kahn on :
I had to drop the book a few months ago when Fraction brought Loki back. It just seems like all he is doing is setting the big reset button for the movie. Bring back Loki, bring bakc Odin, making Thor act like a haflwitted moron for rbing back Loki.
Just a really horrible book write now, and it looks so much worse since Gillen had such a great run before Fraction came in and stunk up the place.
Posted by Set on :
Is there a Thor movie thread? If not, this is the closest I saw with a Search.
Just saw it, and it was pretty awesome. Not quite Iron Man or Spider-Man levels of geekgasm, but a step above the Hulk stuff or, IMO, anything DC has yet brought to the screen.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Just got back from taking Sam and Carol to see it. Same was suitably impressed, while Carol was impressed by the shirtless scene and the one in the rain.
I thought it was exactly what it was supposed to be, a fun summer movie. Lots of action, lots of good performances, including Elba's as Heimdall. Russo was pretty much wasted in the movie, though.
Okay, this is gonna go against all current conventional opinion pretty much, I'm sure, but the woman playing Sif... much prettier and more interesting than the "Jane" character played by Natalie Portman in my opinion.
Hemsworth played Thor with a good swagger, but it came across as a little light to me at points.
Still, I'd give it a solid B+.
and I gotta say one last thing. Whoever did the CGI on the rainbow bridge...well, as Sam said about the movie... Freakin' Awesome. A fun special effects movie that worked. The Destroyer seemed suitably powerful. It all worked.
Posted by Set on :
If there was a weak point, it was all the gleepy smiling / not-quite-flirting between Thor and Jane Foster. So, so tedious.
And yeah, if liking Sif's character a zillion times more than Portman's version of Jane Foster is unconventional, then I join you in unconventional-land.
Loki, Heimdall and Sif were some of my favorite characters. And to heck with those complaining about Heimdall's skin color, the *real* scandal is that Volstagg wasn't nearly fat enough!
I cannot believe they made Loki's crazy taste in horny helmets work so effectively. Amazing.
There was *huge* potential for the various Asgardians (particularly the Warriors Three) to look dorktacular, and take the viewer right out of the scene, but the costume department deserves some sort of medal for making the suits work. Major kudos for using Coipel's design, which translated a hell of a lot better to the screen than tights would have.
Looking forward to Captain America a lot, too.
X-Men: First Class, with trepidation. I don't care if it's consistent with anything, I just want it to not suck. About the only thing that makes me want to love it is that Wolverine isn't going to dominate it the way he has the last four 'X-Men' movies.
Green Lantern, I'll go see, 'cause it's a superhero movie, but, yeah. Whatever.
Posted by Doctor One on :
I´m not a Thor fan at all, and I liked the movie. Still, I´m somewhat confused about the secondary characters. Volstagg eats, Sif is the lady warrior, and I think Heimdall is the guy who 'sees' (right?). But who were the other two guys with Sif and Volstagg? The asian-looking guy and the one with the pointy beard? And does Thor´s mom have a name?
This Avenger business is turning out to be quite interesting, I think. So Iron Man, Thor, Hulk and Captain America, each one with his own movie. And we saw Hawkseye in the Thor movie. Anybody else waiting in the wings? Spider-Man is not an Avenger, right? Or Wolverine? As you can see I´m not at all a Marvel person...
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by Doctor One: [QB] I´m not a Thor fan at all, and I liked the movie. Still, I´m somewhat confused about the secondary characters. Volstagg eats, Sif is the lady warrior, and I think Heimdall is the guy who 'sees' (right?). But who were the other two guys with Sif and Volstagg? The asian-looking guy and the one with the pointy beard? And does Thor´s mom have a name?
Thor's mom (or, more properly, Odin's wife, since she's not really Thor's mom...) is Frigga, who got absolutely short shrift in Norse mythology, being pretty much 'that chick who stands next to Odin,' and getting little more development than that in the comic books either. I think she got more speaking lines in this movie than in either the last thirty years of Thor comics or the last 2500 years of Norse mythology.
Heimdall is indeed the 'one who sees,' having senses sharp enough that he's supposed to hear the sound of wool growing on a sheep's back, down on Midgard, which is *another dimension,* from way up on Asgard. Crazy awesome senses.
The 'Warriors Three' were a comic-book invention, with 'Fandral the Dashing' being an Errol Flynn swashbucklery clone, 'Hogun the Grim' being a surly Mongol-looking dude (here played by an asian), and 'Volstagg the Voluminous' being a colossally fat and jolly Falstaffian buffoon, who is heavy enough that the average Asgardian god (able to lift 20 to 40 *tons*) can't budge him.
They didn't really get described very effectively in the movie, I fear, but in their movie role as 'Thor's drinking and fighting buddies,' they pretty much got the job done.
Sif, in the mythology, was a golden-haired (actual dwarf-spun magical gold for hair, after a prank by Loki led to the loss of her original black locks) 'wife of Thor' sort of figure, but in the comics, she's a black-haired warrior-goddess of swordsmanship who is on-again, off-again associated romantically with Thor, when he's not off on Earth, chatting up mortals...
Another common 'buddy' of Thor is Baldar, but it's probably for the best that they left him out of the movie, as it was already kind of packed with characters that didn't really have room for much in the way of introduction.
I do kind of like the shout-out to Norse myth with the drinking contest. During a prank on Thor, he was told to drain the ale from from a drinking-horn given him by a giant chieftan, who, unbeknownst to him, had magically linked it to the ocean itself. Thor drank and drank and drank, attempting to meet the challenge, but finally failed. He drank so much 'though, that the ocean had pulled back, and rushed back to fill the gap, and that's the Norse mythological explanation for the tides.
The ocean has tides because Thor lost a drinking contest!
And you can Google where Odin got his eight-legged horse, Sleipnir, from, 'cause I'm not sure it's appropriate for a family friendly forum.
quote: This Avenger business is turning out to be quite interesting, I think. So Iron Man, Thor, Hulk and Captain America, each one with his own movie. And we saw Hawkseye in the Thor movie. Anybody else waiting in the wings? Spider-Man is not an Avenger, right? Or Wolverine? As you can see I´m not at all a Marvel person...
The original Avengers were the Hulk, Ant-Man/Giant-Man, the Wasp, Iron Man and Thor. Captain America joined, like, five minutes later, so doesn't technically count as a founding member, but might as well be.
The Ant-Man movie never happened, so he's out, and with him the Wasp.
So far, it looks like the Avengers movie is going to have Thor (Hemsworth), Captain America (Evans), Iron Man (Downey, Jr.), the Black Widow (Johanssen), Hawkeye (Jeremy Renner, the dude we saw with a bow briefly in this movie) and the Hulk (yet another new Hulk actor, Mark Ruffalo).
I kinda would have liked to see Ant-Man/Giant-Man and the Wasp, instead of Black Widow and Hawkeye, but, without the lead-in that we've seen of Black Widow in Iron Man 2, and the forced cameo of Hawkeye here in Thor, they probably didn't want to deal with introducing them during a movie that's already going to be a nightmare to produce, with so many active figures needing their own dramatic scenes and stuff.
Plus the Wasp is dead at the moment, and comic book companies prefer to use characters on-screen that have comics that the viewers can go check out. It might look a little dubious if the one girl Avenger was the only character in the movie that was Miss-Not-Appearing-In-These-Comics on account of extreme deadness...
Posted by lil'rhino on :
Just saw it. Big thumbs up!!
Posted by Doctor One on :
Wow, thanks, Set, for the detailed explanation. Now I think I´m going to go find out about Sleipnir...
Posted by Emily Sivana on :
quote:Another common 'buddy' of Thor is Baldar, but it's probably for the best that they left him out of the movie, as it was already kind of packed with characters that didn't really have room for much in the way of introduction.
You got to save something for the sequels, since Baldar pretty much has two roles and one of them involves dying. Baldar is pretty much the god of light and beauty in the mythology, and many have wondered why he doesn't have some sort of light powers in the comics. In any case, he seems to be the brother that Thor doesn't like lately.
I recommend Godchecker for brief references.
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by Emily Sivana: Baldar is pretty much the god of light and beauty in the mythology, and many have wondered why he doesn't have some sort of light powers in the comics.
Posted by Quislet, Esq on :
I saw Thor today. My thought "Meh". I thought Hemsworth did a very good job. Portman not a good job at all.
The special effect were good, but just more of the same stuff we see in all these action movies. I did see it in IMAX 3-D. Some of the title work made me think "I hope no one in the theater has epilepsy"
For me it is always all about the story. We all know the basic story of Odin sending Thor to Earth to learn humility and be less arrogant. But I didn't see where in the movie Thor learned humility. Was it Click Here For A Spoilerwhen he was captured by SHIELD or Click Here For A Spoiler when Jane told him to stop breaking the dishes? I would have had more time in the film showing Thor on Earth learning to put others ahead of himself.
And I didn't buy Thor falling in love with Jane. I can see why she fell for him Click Here For A Spoilerhe comes to Earth through the phenomenon that she has been studying for years and he is ruggedly handsome. While for Thor Click Here For A Spoiler she is a lower lifeform that he just met. She isn't particularly attractive. She isn't ugly, but as has been said here Sif looked a whole lot better. All she did for him was give him a fresh set of clothing, a meal, and a ride to his hammer. Hardly the makings of a great romance. At least in the comics, Thor had gotten to know Jane Foster for years, albeit as Don Blake.
I did think they got the Characters of Loki & Odin spot on. And Loki's powers were shown very well and in a natural way. Loki's motivation was handled well too. I think that they didn't explain Click Here For A Spoiler the Odinsleep properly. A quick set-up scene where Odin explains to the young Thor & Loki about the Odinsleep as he is about to go into one would have made the scene of Odin's collapse a little more understandable And I thought the use of the Destroyer was very well done.
I don't regret going to see it, especially on the big screen in IMAX 3-D. But it did not leave me wanting to see Thor 2.
Posted by superboymddjr on :
and what about the Avengers movie? as I understand, there was an "Easter egg" at the end of the movie - as Tony Stark showed up and offered him a membership with the Avengers.
Posted by Set on :
The 'easter egg' shown at our theatre was one of the secondary characters for the movie working with Sam Jackson/Nick Fury on a 'potentially unlimited power source' Click Here For A Spoiler(that looked a bit Cosmic Cube-like), and a shot of someone sinister Click Here For A Spoiler(Loki) spying on them.
It suggested a tie-in through the Captain America movie, this movie, and the upcoming Avengers movie.
Posted by superboymddjr on :
oh theh I must have heard wrong. maybe i m confused on the following movie - Capt America, then Avengers then AntMan (which should be like "Antman and the Wasp")...no it was the recent Hulk movie...me confused!!!!!! argh.
Posted by Candlelight on :
Sigh. I always loved Balder. Who drew that, John Buscema? Nice stuff.
Even in the comics, Thor ended up with Sif. How could he not?
[ May 09, 2011, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: Candlelight ]
Posted by Set on :
In the comics, it seems like few, if any, of the Asgardian 'gods' had divine powers, other than being really strong and tough and long-lived.
Even Thor, the 'god of storms,' didn't have a speck of weather control, it all being bound up into a dwarf-forged hammer that Odin empowered with that ability.
It was never stated outright, but particularly in Simonson's run, it felt to me like Odin had stolen the power of the other Asgardians at some early date, and that the 'odin-power' was the collective divine power of the other Asgardians, who would have super-powers of their own, pertaining to their special roles, if he hadn't taken it all for himself.
Of course, there were exceptions. Heimdall's senses. Hermod's speed. Baldar's invulnerability, and, later, light powers.
Of course, comic book translations of various gods have always suffered from the fact that many mythological dieties didn't have intuitively 'super-power-y' domains. Hera's the goddess of laws and marriage. Hestia, of hearth and home. Dionysus, of wine and madness. Gods of storms and fire and whatnot are easy, visually, to picture as comic-book superheroes, but gods of stuff like reading and writing (Thoth) or agriculture (Ceres) take a bit more thinkin.'
Sif's an interesting character because she's so utterly different between myth and comic. Thor's a hammer-wielding stormgod who is a tad full of himself. Loki's a shapeshifting trickster who is good enough at being a cunning toad that he's friends with everyone, despite having stabbed most of them in the back at least once. But Sif? She's 'Thor's wife,' with golden hair, in the myths, and may have some earth goddess / grain goddesss / rowan tree associations, but it's not clear, since he primary role is to get punked by Loki and bear Thor some kids. In the comics, she's a butt-kicking goddess of swordsmanship, and, IMO, ten times more interesting.
Indeed, comic book Sif is more like Athena, a competent warrior and occasionally portrayed as more even-tempered and tactically-minded then the Asgardian 'menfolk' around her.
Posted by Emily Sivana on :
Interestingly about Sif (to Set's point) is that she was the very first Asgardian in the comics to display a power / ability: the ability to travel through space & time. Kirby had her doing this numerous times (traveling to Earth and back) throughout the Silver Age. After Kirby, the power has been by and large ignored ever since though every so often some writer or artist remembers it and brings it back at just the right moment when its needed (almost like every 10 years).
Posted by stuorstew on :
Saw the movie at the weekend and enjoyed it very much especially the scene at the end featuring Walter Simonson which just seemed like a classy thing for Marvel to do.
@Candlelight If you mean the Balder art on left hand side of Reboots post it is by Sal Buscema not John and is a very strange page indeed as the top two thirds come from the final issue of the Balder the Brave mini series whilst the bottom third comes from a largely unrelated tale in Thor 369
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: [QB] Interestingly about Sif (to Set's point) is that she was the very first Asgardian in the comics to display a power / ability: the ability to travel through space & time. Kirby had her doing this numerous times (traveling to Earth and back) throughout the Silver Age.
IIRC, that power was something to do with her sword, and she would swing it in a particular pattern to teleport (presumably with different patterns for different destinations, but it was mostly an Earth-to-Asgard convenience).
That seemed to be a convenience power added to Thor's hammer for awhile, and even the Valkyrie's sword, Dragonfang (although, in the latter case, it was Dr. Strange who gave it that power, again, IIRC).
I don't recall comic-book Sif ever having a specific super-power other than the Asgardian standard powers of super-strength and toughness, and her own 1000 plus years of swordsmanship skill.
Posted by Power Boy on :
I've seen thor twice now, it was better the second time, though i thought the easter egg wasn't worth the wait.
it was a kids movie basically, i think they also tried to cram in too much plot to the movies.
not sure what i think about the whole donald blake jane foster story since thor hasn't been donald blake for like 30 years. (im exaggerating but you get my point) all the marvel movies try to do that i guess.
saw the captain america 'the first avenger' trailer, they are really marketing this avenger movie. seems much more like 'the ultimates' movie.
i thought natalie portman was gorgeous and owned the camera.
Thor had some strange prosthesis hair piece on, i dont know why his natural hair wasn't sufficient.
saw the actress that plays the Lady Sif at the comic store this week, there was a signing, she seemed really nice, she's tall, has four brothers (i think) and is from texas. she's also got kinda a deep raspy voice.
i like how they at least attempted to make Loki complicated.
the only thing i really hated was the actor playing Hogun. His accent was ridiculous! They can't find an asian or asian american actor with flawless english?? Bullshit.
He's a japanese actor so i dont know if that was his real accent or if he was told to camp it up. (Maybe they chose him for some reason unknown, like because he's got some sort of studio deal and will be expanding to the US soon and they're promoting him in small parts?) whatever. bleh!
i liked the costumes, special effects were obvious in some places, but otherwise good. flying poses were especially cool. i thought that generic monster at the beginning should've been Ymir. I thought the frost giants looked cool until they reminded me of avatar, and that a whole other story ....
Posted by lil'rhino on :
I liked Click Here For A Spoilerthe shirtless scene! Posted by Power Boy on :
not nearly enough ! is my only criticism of that. Posted by lil'rhino on :
Oh, Natalie's intern/sidekick was adorable!!
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
I enjoyed the movie,
Who knew Heimdall, who is described as the whitest of the gods in Norse mythology, was black?
Posted by Reboot on :
Back on topic for the comics forum, I had three and a half kilograms of Walt Simonson Thor (you don't measure this book by counting pages. It'd take a while ) drop (not literally, fortunately) through my door today. Wowsa.
quote:Originally posted by Tamper Lad: Who knew Heimdall, who is described as the whitest of the gods in Norse mythology, was black?
And who knew Thor, described as the ultimate ginger in Norse mythology, was blond? Posted by Quislet, Esq on :
quote:Originally posted by lil'rhino: Oh, Natalie's intern/sidekick was adorable!!
More so than she was.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Saw it, loved it! This is from a major Thor fan who arrogantly thinks there are very few people in the world who know more about the comic and it's history than he does.
Right amount of drama, humor and action. I'm amazed they fit all that into 2 hours. As I'm sure they wanted, I was left dying for more of the Warriors 3, etc.
Guy who played Thor was perfect. Even better, the guy who played Loki was really good--one of best casting choices yet for a superhero movie.
I thought Portman was terrific and disagree with the naysayers.
Even the Destroyer was well done and used just the right amount for a non-speaking entity.
Theater was packed in the middle of a Saturday and half of it was kids all cheering and clapping. Made me feel good about Thor as a franchise going forward.
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Right amount of drama, humor and action. I'm amazed they fit all that into 2 hours. As I'm sure they wanted, I was left dying for more of the Warriors 3, etc.
I think that Iron Man has left the marvel movie mavens with the notion that humor is their ticket to success, and that bugs me. It worked really, really well in Iron Man, but it sometimes felt a bit forced in Thor, and the actor playing Thor smiled just a little bit too much at Natalie Portman.
Thor is many things, but he was coming across as a smitten teen, and that felt a bit off to me.
Loki, Sif and Heimdall were spot-on, 'though.
quote: Theater was packed in the middle of a Saturday and half of it was kids all cheering and clapping. Made me feel good about Thor as a franchise going forward.
I was very pleased with the audience. I saw it on the Friday it released, and there where some chatty college-aged girls behind me. I was not looking forward to that, until the previews, when one of them started making informed comments about the Green Lantern and Captain America trailers (indeed, one of them was pretty much saying what I was thinking, at one point, and I was wondering if she was reading my mind!), and I realized that I'd somehow fallen into an alternate universe filled with hot twenty-something comic book fangirls...
Posted by Lard Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by lil'rhino: Oh, Natalie's intern/sidekick was adorable!!
That was the girl who played the daughter in "40 Year Old Virgin"!
Posted by Power Boy on :
The Mighty Thor # 5
The Asgardians are in the middle of a fight with Galactus and the Silver Surfer over something called the 'Seed' Which Thor has taken from the sundered world tree Yggdrasil.
Thor was injured while doing this, It's a mystery.
Fallen Asgard sits near a small town called Broxton, Texas where a minister has gathered a few people to go tell the Asgardians to leave because their presence .... attracts too much action ... and destruction. They are bickering with Volstaag while the Asgardian warriors fight Galactus. It's supposed to be funny ... it almost is.
SO, Silver Surfer has devised a means to quench Galactus' unquenchable thirst .... you guessed it .... this 'World Seed' from the heart of Yggdrasil - (The sundered World Tree)
The Asgardians --- 'say thee nay' it's unclear why, everyone is just following Odin ... who's not talking ... it may be something sinister or not.
In issue 4 - Odin takes on Galactus ... with them both using reality warping powers to trick or defeat the other. While the Silver Surfer plays around with Thor, who seems to be trying a bit harder than the Silver Surfer.
The other Asgardians try to help against Galactus.
Thor and Silver Surfer fight, Thor seems rabid, S.S. seems more sensible. They fight like boyhood rivals ... maybe we are supposed to think this is cool or cute, it reminds me of Japanese Anime that is targeted for adolescents. (I don't mean that snarkily)
Click Here For A SpoilerSif arrives 'Boys we've got a bigger problem'
Odin gives Galactus a three page HEAD BUTT!! Galactus falls to Earth.
Volstagg rallys the left over Asgardians (who aren't fighting Galactus) to face the Minister and the Broxtons. Amidst which ... Galactus falls to Earth. Big explosion.
Meanwhile .... My favorite child Loki (of current Journey to Mystery fame) ... is up to something.
Click Here For A SpoilerHe goes to the Destroyer .... and STEELS THE WORLD SEED (that everybody wants) from the Destroyers heart!!
This Loki is not so bad as the original Loki, he's sneaky but, he loves Thor and seems to be using his 'skills' to scheme things right for everyone. The original evil Loki has been reincarnated as young Loki's pet Crow. Thor beleives Evil Loki has redeemed himself by dying against the Sentry. (.. in Siege? Too many events to keep track of) It's unclear how related the new Loki is to the old Loki. I like young Loki a lot. The Asgardians don't ... they've been betrayed too many times.
Click Here For A Spoilersoo ... The Destroyer wakes up when Loki steals the seed.
Cut to .....
Click Here For A SpoilerSif on the Silver Surfer's sled with him, Thor is jealous, Silver Surfer is pleased. It makes no sense to me ... I think it's dorky. Do Sif and the Surfer even know each other, Does the Silver Surfer even have emotions like that, Are Thor and Sif anywhere near exclusive ... who cares.
Click Here For A SpoilerThey arrive at Odin's and Galactus' earth fall ... and Odin says something cryptic about ... the SEED ensuring their escape ... from the serpent (The serpent is the current big bad of the Fear Itself crossover event) Whether escape means it's a portal to another place, death, or a weapon to kill the serpent is unclear ... ODIN FALLS ASLEEP INTO HIS ODIN SLEEP ... before he can explain. drama.
Galactus gets up ... is pissed and tired of playing around. He's gonna torch planet Earth to get his SEED which can sustain him in perpetuity ... he's hungry.
Silver Surfer does what he does ... which is plead for Galactus not to eat Earth saying his plan failed (or something like that ... they can't get the world seed because an act of war against these gods is beyond even Galactus (which I not only doubt .. I find hard to swallow ... Galactus is UBER. ) So S.S. tries to convince Galactus to go back to eating random planets.
Galactus is unconvinced.
Back to Little Loki ... (There's no Destroyer ... I guess the Destroyer woke up AFTER Loki left ... it's unclear ... bad alarm system. The Destroyer is on the cover of #6 so I assume he goes looking for dear Loki) Loki takes the World Seed back to the World Tree ... and jumps into the World Tree (which is more like an energy chasm than a tree) 'FOR ASGARD!' He shouts.
Back at the ranch .... The minister from Broxton stops arguing with Volstaag ... thinking that he can reason with Galactus very dramatically saying 'he's heard the good news of christ and always wanted to meet God'.
Coipel's art is great but, think the breakdowns are slowing down for whatever reason ... Odin's head butt to Galactus was three pages ... meant to say 'IT'S THAT BIG OF A HEAD BUTT'. Sorry Coipel not even your sex on paper shiny drawings can make a 3 page headbutt out of a 19 page story worth it. Besides, right before that was a one page for a power blast and another one page for a hammer throw.
I think the fight between Silver Surfer and Thor is pretty fair, S.S. looks to be having an easier time than Thor.
The battle between Odin and Galactus is way too even. Galactus should be like a gOd to Odin IMO. nah scratch that IMO. Galactus should put the same amount of effort into the battle with Odin as Simple Green and I do taking out germs on the countertop.
(ok now I exaggerate ... maybe more like me versus a squirrel ... I'm Galactus)
Galactus is part of the 'why' and 'how' of the universe that Odin lives in. Odin is an advanced creature but ... what are the nine realms to Galactus but 9 meals ?
I presume that one flaw with permanently sating Galactus' appetite ... is that ... Dosn't he need to eat some planets to provide nutrients for other growth in the universe ... or wouldn't there would be some drawbacks if he stopped eating planets ? I think he was part of the 'circle of life' ... a necessary and fundamental part of the universe's workings ??
Or did I miss the part where he isn't anymore?
Those are the biggies, I'll be picking up issue #6. I wonder what Thor's wound is. I wonder what Loki is up to and I'm sure he'll save the day while using his wits while the grown ups just argue.
The art is good, the story is ok, It's not the greatest and there's not the most text packed in but ... it's fun and shiny and I kinda want to see how it turns out. ----------------------------------------------------- An aside: I see that the writer is trying to do something arty with the minister, and odin, and galactus but ... It's just cringe worthy to me ... I don't see how Fraction's going to get out of this one without either 1) disappointing this minster and shaking the minister's faith in his own religion ... which I doubt he will go there OR 2) we get some ambiguous catch all pantheology sermon/moral. Odin + Galactus is already awkward. I just don't think this specific story is/has been deft enough to go there, so I don't really appreciate it presuming to.
Maybe James Robinson should try though. Hey, Kingdom Come went there and it was fairly elegant! -----------------------------------------------------
I want my action and my shiny pictures ... which Thor #5 delivers.
I rate it:
Much more entertaining than JL #1.
[ September 02, 2011, 01:19 AM: Message edited by: Power Boy ]
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
It took me a couple of looks to decide that was Sif when she appeared. I vaguely remember Fraction talking about increasing the prominence of the Norse goddesses, so I thought maybe it was someone other than Lady Sif.
I liked her 'boys' line. This is the kind of storyline that will seem better in memory-- I mean it's got 'important' all over it. But I'm not really enjoying it all that much issue to issue.
Still, I'd say it's worth reading. Odin vs. Galactus... momentous.
I wish the 'Fear' stuff wasn't going on to dilute it.
JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY was much more my cup of tea. Loved the magpie/raven guide, found the story-trader spooky, menacing and sort of beautiful in a creepy way.
As the story trader shows various Asgardians' thoughts of Loki, one scene included Sif talking to Valkyrie (Brunhilde). I LOVED this scene- as I'm a big fan of the SON OF ASGARD series from a few years ago, and sort of despise anything that takes away from the idea of Thor, Balder, Loki, Sif, Val and Amora as a generation that grew up together and have been enmeshed in each others lives for centuries (with notable periods of abscenteeism).
More of that please!
[ September 02, 2011, 11:25 PM: Message edited by: Mystery Lad ]
Posted by Power Boy on :
Ditto Mystery Lad!!
JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY is the current sleeper hit with me. It's one of my most enjoyable reads each month. I root for the reincarnated Loki, hoping he won't go down the dark path as the previous Loki, while he schemes and steals and tricks people .... but for now he's doing to help Thor and Asgard.
I don't know why I originally picked it up, I'm a middling Loki and Thor fan but, I'm really enjoying this portrayal of the new Loki.
#626.1 was a fun done in one that lends a lot of insight into the character of young Loki.
Click Here For A SpoilerLoki conjures a spell to eavesdrop on various Asgardians. He does this by summoning a creepy spirit. Loki matches wits the spirit which is cute, and evesdropping and spying are fairly amoral but .. Loki's a kid still. We discover most Asgardians very jaded about Loki and want him gone.
Loki seems not to care much for most of the other Asgardians ... and neither do I since they are so mean to our charming protagonist. The spirit spirit asks Loki if he wants to eavesdrop on Thor:
Click Here For A SpoilerLoki says .. no .. apparently he respects Thor too much, or wuld be too hurt to find out Thor saying bad things about him.... Loki plays this off saying 'Thor is a challenge' to him and he wants to figure Thor out for himself. I don't think so, I think he loves his brother Thor.
So, Loki dismisses the spirit in what is becoming classic young Loki imperious fashion 'You may go.'
Click Here For A SpoilerThe spirit wants payment and attempts to 'eat' Loki. Loki cries out for Thor ... Thor eventually arrives ... in part due to Loki's pet bird (the old Loki). Loki tells Thor what happened, the truth, Thor seems amused by his hijinx and wants to protect the impetuous Loki.
The evil spirit, banished back to his realms wonders if Loki is playing a more complex game of lies, or if the little guy is actually good.
I'm really enjoying this Loki running around scheming, always in over his head, making enemies, and so far putting the peddle to the metal to help Asgard.
If this Loki is just an even better schemer and these stories will add up to him turning evil somehow because of rejection or because he was evil all along (which may be inevitable) .... I hope it dosn't happen for a very long time.
[ September 02, 2011, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: Power Boy ]
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
The new Thor series by Matt Fraction and Oliver Copiel has thus far been…surprisingly good. Not surprising is that Copiel’s artwork remains melt-your-face-off awesome, as he rocks each issue beyond comprehension. What is surprising is Fraction is delivering a fairly crisp, coherent and interesting script (as I’ve come to expect the opposite from him).
I think Galactus and the Silver Surfer have been done well here; Fraction walks the line of doing just one big retread, but instead he does a good job at keeping the ‘awe’ quality while keeping them active participants each issue.
The subplot with Volstagg and the town of Broxton seemed to be little more than comic relief but even that is somewhat interesting to me. It’s bordering on becoming a farce (well, crossing over at times) but it appears to have some larger importance.
But the best part is the Copiel drawn Thor with the Copiel drawn Sif getting into some cosmic, grandiose adventure sequences. That alone is worth the price of admission.
One complaint: this absolutely didn’t need 6 issues for the trade. 4 tops.
Meanwhile, I'll review Journey into Mystery when I get to it, but I'll reiterate what Peebs said above that so far its been a fantastic read! One of the better written comic books out there.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
One of the very best and most underrated comics from Marvel these days is Journey into Mystery, which stars the newly reborn and young Loki, while also featuring most of the Asgardian cast on a regular basis. What sets it apart is how smart and ingenious the story-telling is by Kieron Gillen, as well as the phenomenal artwork by Pasqual Ferry.
On a regular basis, Gillen achieves the difficult in not only making Loki sympathetic and relatable, but also making him incredibly interesting, as he weaves his Byzantine plans and schemes for the benefit of the realm. The fact that this Loki truly does feel affection for Thor (and vice versa) enhances this.
The recent "point one" issue, 626.1 is actually written by Rob Rodi, who does a good job taking a cue from Gillen in how to write the trickster deity. It's a solid issue that really nails the character of this Loki well.
Gillen was the best of the Thor writers in recent years--much more so than JMS or Matt Fraction--and he really has his fingers on the pulse of the Asgardian characters. I recommend the series for readers looking for a smarter, more complex vibe.
Posted by Dev - Em on :
Late to the party, but I finally bought and watched Thor.
I enjoyed it quite a bit. Falls below Captain America and X-Men, but was still a good fun movie. Sif was gorgeous, Portman was fine in the role that she was given. Liked the Hawkeye cameo (as he is one of my favorite Marvel heroes - if they would only throw the Black Knight in the Avengers movie I'd be really happy).
Loki was awesome, and I found that they pulled off his trickster persona quite well given the time they had to devote to it.
Really excited for The Avengers and now.
Would also love to see a Warriors Three spin off television show.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #628 and MIGHTY THOR #6: An interesting couple of issues released this week... I wish Marvel spread these out in the month, a bit.
JIM continued its streak of story with fun and depth. I even liked the 'disir' (not sure I got the spelling right), who are quite humorous and individual, rather than the somewhat monolithic faces of horror I once read them as. The 'thing' between one of them and Tyr... that would make a bad book worth reading. Here, it's just another facet that gleams alongside other pleasures.
MIGHTY isn't quite as enjoyable, but still worth reading. It continues to feature events that I would've thought would be heralded with a capital 'E', but curiously aren't.
A big change occurs for a certain surfboard riding star that were quite surprising, for me. He even chooses his own successor. And a more surprising choice couldn't have been made.
Thor and Sif project a certain sexiness... I'm torn trying to think of a comic book couple that even comes close at the moment. Certainly not either of the couples making headlines the past week. And it's all done with Thor's arm flung over Sif's shoulder and expressions on faces.
Volstagg comes across as a little stupider than he should, I think. In relation to how other events throughout Marvel are being dragged out, certain events here happen with a snap of the finger.
Posted by Power Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #628 and MIGHTY THOR #6: An interesting couple of issues released this week... I wish Marvel spread these out in the month, a bit.
me too, especially since they are so disimilar in tone.
MIGHTY THOR #6
I feel the same way as Mystery Lad, except I would say the new Silver Surfer is ... implausible ... and went there way too quickly.
Little Loki rocks. the casbah. saves everybody. everybody is suspicious of him. he and Thor make up though.
I thought Volstagg comes off pretty good, he even throws down some knowledge to the preacher ... in a sober moment for Volstagg. And Volstagg gets some funny lines too.
Click Here For A SpoilerThe preacher tells Volstagg 'Violence begets violence' to which Volstagg replies 'PRECISELY!' LOL ... but that's what the Asgardians are too
Coipel's Thor is super sexy.
I found the writing of this conclusion really disjointed. When did the preacher character become so peace loving ... I though he was all about confrontation.
Also we cut to too many locations and different characters. (and back and forth)
Maybe the whole point of this Cosmic Epic Sleight of Hands was to get Norrin Rad on Earth.
Posted by Power Boy on :
JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #628
I can't get past the art. Whilce Portacio fills in. and I think he's usually 'ok' but this is ..... really not to my liking to put it lightly.
It's a bummer because the story seems quite good. Especially the Disir quips. I also like how Loki has totally commandeered the Destroyer and that has been completely understated. This issue is definitely a middle issue ... and less fun than a beginning or end of a story.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #630: A great issue wherein Volstagg the Voluminous spends a 'quiet' evening at home with his family after the events of FEAR ITSELF.
If you've got any affection for ol' Volstagg, check it out. Don't let the FEAR ITSELF tie-in status keep you away, as this could really be about any story the main character just experienced. In fact, you can now imagine that if V the V was there, afterward events just like those profiled here will be occurring.
FEAR ITSELF, while maybe not the greatest of 'events', definitely spawned some nice 'tie-ins' between this, NEW MUTANTS and THUNDERBOLTS.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
Nobody else liked #630? Surprising...
#631's already out... with a change in administration for Asgard. A few other things return to their more accustomed norm...
Loki's bid to remain on the side of light gets a test with a somewhat surprising direction from the new administration I mentioned before. I wasn't sure till now that the godling meant what he said about his future. Now I think that he does, but wonder how long it'll survive against the weight of Marvel's history.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
Asgardia's All-Mother... what do y'all think? I'm liking it (though it seems to me there ought to be a more cronish representative, too...)
The new Thunderer-- hah!
Folk from all the nine realms living in one city that now, apparently, doesn't even float above Broxton? Come on-- my pretty strong suspension of disbelief system can't handle that one!
The sooner Asgard or Asgardia is back in 'Asgard-space' the better.
That said, I'm quite intrigued by the All-Mother's proposed republic government to replace Odin's monarchy (don't really think 'patriarchal' and 'matriarchal' would mean much to gods).
A certain sometime ally, sometime opponent is revealed... making me think the return of more than one Asgardian god might be in the offing.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #632: The string of fun issues continues as Loki is bequeathed the gift of a litter of hel-wolves, and is charged by the All-Mother to find homes for them. He does, visiting various Asgard-related characters, as well as Mephisto, and Dani Moonstar. The six pups he distributes are more or less 'normal' seeming, while the seventh talks... about murder, death, blood and flesh-rending. So, of course, Loki adopts him- feeling the pull of one outcast for another.
Volstagg gets to try on a new costume, as well. Remember what month it is.
This is one of, if not the best books on the stand and I'm shocked and a little saddened that no one else comments on it.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
^ I agree that Journey into Mystery is one of the best comic books on the market. Hands-down head and shoulders above 99% of the rest of the market. Each issue maintains that quality as well, and continues to impress. Not only a contender for Marvel's best series, but best series in comics.
Meanwhile, the main Mighty Thor series is a little more hit and miss, even though the currnet story is quite a HIT in my opinion. Though the premise seems 'same old', the delivery proves that is not the case at all! It's a pretty complex plot involving Karnilla, Ulik, the Trolls, the Silver Surfer and a whole plethora of things that I'm enjoying quite a bit. The Olivetti artwork just takes it all to a new level in the majestic way Thor should be done.
Plus, I'm also really liking this new "Republic of Asgardia" status quo they are trying to establish. For the first time perhaps ever, where Odin is gone, they are doing something totally different than just another King. I wouldn't mind watching this develop for a period of time.
All in all, still a great time to be a Thor fan in comics!
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #634... in which it becomes apparent that the Son of Satan and Loki is a totally natural, even inevitable pairing that could become a long-running team (though I think that not so likely to happen).
Best moment- Loki's quickly maturing hel-wolf pup casts adoring eyes at Damon Hellstrom and says (this hel-wolf can speak) "Will you be my master?"
Worth the 3 or 4 dollars to me.
I'm still trying to figure Leah out. I like her and the way she puts Loki in his place-- but I keep stumbling around her name. A Hebrew name for an Asgardian? A shuffling of her mistress's (Hela) name? Similar to Loki's crow... What does *that* mean?
I like how there's undercurrents and mystery and history we don't yet know...
I only hope it can continue for years...
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
So I think the latest Thor story arc (#6-12) is the best Matt Fraction story I've ever read. Combined with the explosive art by Ariel Olliveti, it made for a potent Thor story-arc.
What I really like is the combination of new ideas & modern sensibilities with a focus on some elements that are found in all the classic Thor stories: focus on Asgard; grandiose ideas & enemies; a few specific non-human Thor antagonists with very human downfalls. We had Thor off with other Gods battling the Devourer of Gods, the Silver Surfer & Kid Loki, Heimdall stepping up, the All-Mother & the "new Asgardia", the Warriors Three, the Lady Sif, Tanarius (and that story going somewhere unexpected and welcome), the Trolls, Karnilla, Kelda, and of course, the revelation of who Tanarius was.
My only issue is I wish Karnilla could have referenced the recent death of Balder, her true love, which actually gives her the motivation to do what she did in this story. But I guess writers can't take into account every reference that longtime fans would like to see.
All in all, it was a pretty fantastic story.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
So I'm continuing to enjoy both Asgardian series quite a bit! Fraction's Thor is definitely glued to the 6-part story structure but so long as they continue to be good I dont mind. This *is* good and Fraction's most original effort yet. Artist Pepe Larraz is really doing a fantastic, grandiose job. And Amora is in it, kicking ass!
Meanwhile, Journey into Mystery continues to be a high point in comics these days. The writing is just too notch with great plots, a unique tone and fantastic characters. It's difficult to find ways to continue to praise it. I think comparisons to Sandman are pretty apt.
All in all, a pretty great time for Thor fans.
Posted by Reboot on :
Journey Into Mystery #641.
I'd fallen behind on this title since the end of Exiled, but I got spoiled on the bare fact of the ending of this issue on Bleeding Cool, so I immediately read the arc (#639-641) to catch up.
And... damn.
I have a scale when it comes to these things. Now, this ISN'T at the top of that list (which is "Say I Deserve This", from Empowered Vol. 5 - that can STILL make me tear up after reading it at least ten times), since it didn't make me cry. But I've still been walking around in a saddened sort of daze for the past hour-and-a-half. Real gut punch there, Mr. Gillen.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: ^ I agree that Journey into Mystery is one of the best comic books on the market. Hands-down head and shoulders above 99% of the rest of the market. Each issue maintains that quality as well, and continues to impress. Not only a contender for Marvel's best series, but best series in comics.
Meanwhile, the main Mighty Thor series is a little more hit and miss, even though the currnet story is quite a HIT in my opinion. Though the premise seems 'same old', the delivery proves that is not the case at all! It's a pretty complex plot involving Karnilla, Ulik, the Trolls, the Silver Surfer and a whole plethora of things that I'm enjoying quite a bit. The Olivetti artwork just takes it all to a new level in the majestic way Thor should be done.
Plus, I'm also really liking this new "Republic of Asgardia" status quo they are trying to establish. For the first time perhaps ever, where Odin is gone, they are doing something totally different than just another King. I wouldn't mind watching this develop for a period of time.
All in all, still a great time to be a Thor fan in comics!
Cobalt Kid, I usually agree with you but not here. Haven't been digging the Mighty Thor at all. Fraction is a bit all over the place with it. I like Asgardia, I like the triple goddess rule, I like the shared realm of gods, elves, goblins, trolls, etc. But can't get into this series. I think it needs to be a bit more focused.
JIM on the other hand I love. I want Kid Loki around forever. If they want to bring Loki back as a true villain have an Ikol and a Loki. Kid Loki is just too cool to get rid of.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Reboot: Journey Into Mystery #641.
I'd fallen behind on this title since the end of Exiled, but I got spoiled on the bare fact of the ending of this issue on Bleeding Cool, so I immediately read the arc (#639-641) to catch up.
And... damn.
I have a scale when it comes to these things. Now, this ISN'T at the top of that list (which is "Say I Deserve This", from Empowered Vol. 5 - that can STILL make me tear up after reading it at least ten times), since it didn't make me cry. But I've still been walking around in a saddened sort of daze for the past hour-and-a-half. Real gut punch there, Mr. Gillen.
That was a tough one. Damn, good, effective writing. It hurt.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
And it gets trumped the next month. The teams on THOR and JIM are going out in style, I'd say.
I found the Manchester Gods pretty fascinating. Though it's too bad only one really got a personality/ID. By authorial intent, I wonder? A commentary on technology's isolating tendencies? Surely they could come up with a better name for the Manchester gods' spokesman/Odin-Zeus analog(?)--- Mister Wilson. Really? Even though it does have more behind it than it seems, that's probably the most boring 'god' name ever.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
Wow, the turns this tale's taking... Further status changes for one of Loki's favorite people... and the betrayer gets Betrayed. Big time and heartbreakingly. For me, even more than the previous one.
Though Loki managed to more or less reverse that, will he be able to again?
Volstagg as king of Asgardia is surprisingly believable.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
So I'm a little behind but from what I've seen so far, "Everything Burns" has been AWESOME so far! The twists, the turns, the throwbacks to earlier in Gillen's run...it's just so damn well written! (And drawn too--both series).
The usage of a vast cast should be required reading for future writers of either series.
Man, I'm going to really miss Gillen writing the adventures of the Asgardians. He didn't get nearly enough press for his Thor run or his JiM run yet talented writing has put him front and center as the best Thor-family writer of the last 10 years.
Posted by Conjure Lass on :
I think i'm an issue behind, but I've enjoyed every last bit of "Everything Burns". Click Here For A SpoilerThe last I'd seen, Thor had just come back with his "army that won't burn" courtesy of Loki's twisty betrayal/helping. I knew it was going to be twisty and turny, but the twists and turns have been OUTSTANDING.
I can say with some certainty that when I read Thor in the 90's it was fun but not nearly this level of storytelling. It genuinely seems fresh, and that's really something considering the source material.
Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
quote:Originally posted by Conjure Lass: I think i'm an issue behind, but I've enjoyed every last bit of "Everything Burns". Click Here For A SpoilerThe last I'd seen, Thor had just come back with his "army that won't burn" courtesy of Loki's twisty betrayal/helping. I knew it was going to be twisty and turny, but the twists and turns have been OUTSTANDING.
I can say with some certainty that when I read Thor in the 90's it was fun but not nearly this level of storytelling. It genuinely seems fresh, and that's really something considering the source material.
Conjure Lass, have you ever read Walt Simonson's 1983-87 run on Thor? If you haven't, it's really good, and it's been reprinted in a variety of formats.
Posted by Conjure Lass on :
Thanks for the suggestion! I was pretty small in the 80s, so I wouldn't have been able to read comics in those days! I'll go out and try to find the TPB of it!
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
As I gear up for Jason Aaron's run on Thor, and Sif taking over JiM, I wanted to make sure I didn't lose focus on the incredible, seminal run that is wrapping up now: mainly, Keiron Gillen's run on JiM (which was a continuation on his prior Thor material). I finally caught up on "Everything Burns", reading the final part and the epilogue, which closes out Loki as the main character in JiM.
And though I've said it many times: wow. Just wow. What a fantastic run he's had, with an excellent finish! Gillen's voice is just so fresh and creative, and the levels of complexities to his plot / schemes and more importantly, to the character interactions, has been phenomenal.
My personal favorite part of this whole run, moreso than even Loki / Leah, has been Loki's numerous plots and tricks. Gillen pulled off so many, that for every one you could kind of see coming, there were two that totally caught you by surprise. And in the final issue, with Ikol at last being revealed, the whole thing came into true focus. Not that Ikol himself was much of a revelation, but rather, how the theme of the entire series (re: changing oneself) came into play.
Of course, the Leah / Loki relationship is #2. I'm not quite sure when it happened, but I became super-invested in seeing these two together. That's just good writing. The twist of Leah's future fate did not go unnoticer either.
One other item worth mentioning: the whole "young Loki", beloved kid brother of Thor bit at first seemed like it would never work for me. But the reason it did work was Kieron Gillen. He really sold the idea of an older brother / younger brother who believed in one another in a way that many lesser writers could not do.
I'm going to miss all of the supporting cast in a big way. The Disir perhaps the most.
What a terrific run. Hereafter, anything with "Kieron Gillen" on the cover will be sampled by me no matter what. I'm certainly interested in what Aaron has in mind, and I like Sif enough to continue JiM. But for now, I'm just enjoying the moment of completing one of the best runs in recent comic book memory.
Posted by Reboot on :
Does "future" really apply to Leah? [I really want to see a Gillen miniseries showing the transition]
As for EB... was it just me or was the Vanir plot pretty much dropped halfway through? It was an excuse for some cannon fodder on the one hand, and to get the "All-Mother" out the way/put Volstagg on the throne on the other, but was never, ever developed in its own right.
But, yeah, Kid Loki worked in a way that he frankly shouldn't have. Bravo Mr Gillen, bravo.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Yeah, the Vanir plot seemed to not really matter in the bigger picture. It felt like something Fraction wanted to do and then pulled back on when it was clear Gillen's masterful larger plot didn't really call for it anymore.
Posted by Reboot on :
Quite possibly. I seem to recall that Fraction's run on Thor-proper (as opposed to Ages of Thunder/Reign of Blood/Man of War) was NOT well-received at large, and incoherency would have something to do with that. I never read it, myself.
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