Great article up on Newsarama about Judd Winick and Howard Porter's upcoming Shazam maxi series.
Winick has a wealth of enthusiasm for the material and all the preview art looks gorgeous. So far he's sold me on the series. So what do you all think?
Here's a line that some might find troublesome
quote: My big quote on this is that, “’the big red cheese’ is dead,” meaning that the silliness and the ridiculousness that have surrounded Captain Marvel is gone. We’re not looking at him that way. You keep that in there, and people end up not taking him seriously. “Oh, it’s just Captain Marvel,” they say. Hopefully, they won’t be saying that when they see what we’re doing, and where we’re headed.
Personally, I say "Thank the Lord!" Its about high time the Marvels were drug out of that gag endusing phase. It had its place back in the day, but the days of "Gee Whiz" or "Golly Mister!" are gone. If Batman saying "Chum!" is out of date, and for some I know Batman saying "Chum" was a big deal, then surely... this old horse can be put to pasture.
I have loved Captain Marvel and will continue to love Captain Marvel. So its time to see what a Modern Day interpretation can do.
And if no one likes that at least we have Jeff Smith's mini to look forward too.
[ May 01, 2012, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: Reboot ]
Posted by Stratum on :
I think he's missing the point about what makes the BRC so special, the whimsy and fun side of super-heroics. Someone like Dan Slott (or Jeff Smith) should be writing the ongoing.
I mean, how long before CMJ becomes HIV positive in a very special story?
I am admittedly not a Winnick fan as a whole. I occassionally like his work, but this has me nervous for CM.
Jamie
Posted by Spellbinder on :
I'm not really a Winick fan, either. I have yet to be outrageously impressed with anything he's written. I love the Marvels, but I will have to preview this before buying it. I'm not overly optimistic, but we'll see.
Posted by Nick Vinson on :
Well I know that when the Marvels fight demons it wont be too far off concept THIS TIME.
Posted by Nick Vinson on :
i dont think hes getting rid of the whimsy at all. I just think hes shedding those dated trappings that keep Cap from really being seen as relavent in todays context. Really they've been brining Marvel into the modern context very well with his appearances in JSA, Days of Vengeance and IC. This is just the next logical extension as I see it.
And on the Winick note, I really liked his Batman run, but his Green Arrow run has left me cold. Especially once Hester and Parks left, i felt the book suffered. Now that McDaniel is the artist things may or may not pick up. I did really like his Exiles run.
But there is a level of predictability to his stuff. You have a Gay character, or one with HIV/AIDS. At some point there are demons. Sometimes the characters have sex.
Although he doesnt do this everytime. His run on Batman was very fresh and I hadnt enjoyed that title since just before the whole Fugitive arc. Most of the time those stories are told rather well. New Speedy (who's name I cant remember off the top of my head) contracting HIV. The hate crime from his run on GL. Alot of this stuff revisits elements from "Pedro and Me." And sometimes that can seem a bit didactic.
That being said, if I see Ollie fighting Demons one more time I may vomit. But, if he is taking the Marvels into the realm of Magic where they WOULD be fighting monstorous creatures and Magical beasts... Could work.
-Nick-
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
The whole "Big Red Cheese" characterization was the only thing keeping him from totally usurping Superman's status as "greatest hero of the DCU". If that's gone, considering Cap's gods given talents and wisdom etc., how can they say he's not A-#1?
Oh, I just thought of a possible excuse - that Cap's new status quo keeps him removed from taking part in most DCU related activites somehow - kinda how The Silver Surfer's almost always off-earth cuz there's little that could stand against him here.
[ May 18, 2006, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: DrakeB3004 ]
Posted by Pov on :
Winick, huh?
Somewhere out there, the message board poster known as Shazamgrrl is going to need to up her meds... Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3004: The whole "Big Red Cheese" characterization was the only thing keeping him from totally usurping Superman's status as "greatest hero of the DCU". If that's gone, considering Cap's gods given talents and wisdom etc., how can they say he's not A-#1?
See, this is my main reason I have hated Crisis and the end of the Multiverse.
Having Captain Marvel on an Earth without Superman allowed both characters to be the A-#1 hero. Similarly, the Justice League and the Justice Society would be The superhero group of their respective Earths.
OK I've vented.
[ October 11, 2006, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: Quislet, Esq. ]
Posted by doublechinner on :
I am also very skeptical of this. Erik Larsen wrote to my mind a great editorial at CBR about what was wrong with Captain Marvel. He identified the shift from Cap/Billy as 2 different people to Cap-is-boy-in-Superman's-body.
I tend to agree with that analysis. Cap should be an entity unto himself, somehow merged with Billy's memories and feelings. Cap should be Billy GROWN UP, not Billy the kid in a man's body. That's just too creepy, as recent events in JSA illustrate.
I think the shift to a more magical environment might work. It would certainly allow for some of the oddball whimsy the character had in the 1940s and 1950s. Winnick scares me, though.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
I like Cap, he was the first super hero I met. Mind ya, it was that Saturday morning show back in the 70's, but still cool.
Get rid of Supergirl. With her and S-boy out of the way, Cap and Mary can fill those roles. Tie them closer to Supes, make them his extended family. It keeps Clark's unique-ness and allows for the Marvels to have their ties to the DCU.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Wow, this will pretty much make sure i don't read it, and i have the Ordway run, along with some of the older ones that Kurt did, and a few before that.
I guess winnick really will get to write "marvel" books.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
With BNW out, just a reminder for fans...
Posted by doublechinner on :
The art in the BNW preview is sumptuous, just to die for. The plot, what there was of it, was fine (except Harpies are Greek, NOT Chinese!).
The original CM comics had a great mixture of light and dark elements -- people often forget about the dark moments in them. It looks like this could be a great modern take on that classic admixture. But Winnick's rep still scares me.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
So, anyone else reading this?
Porter's artwork here is just this side of edible. It looks great, very much an old school painted look.
As for the story, the first two issues are a nice introduction. We get Cap and Freddy in the OYL DCU, and it's not grim n gritty or post modern relevant. It's just a promising start to an exciting adventure touring the magical side of the DCU.
If you're a Cap fan, you will like the classic feel it has.
Posted by MLLASH on :
I thought TRIALS OF SHAZAM # 1 & 2 were FANTASTIC.
Looks like Freddie Freeman is going to be the hero to watch.
I want Mary out of that hospital bed!
Posted by Vee on :
quote:Originally posted by MLLASH: I thought TRIALS OF SHAZAM # 1 & 2 were FANTASTIC.
Looks like Freddie Freeman is going to be the hero to watch.
I want Mary out of that hospital bed!
Agreed on all counts! Glad to see that Freddie is going to shine here but I really want Mary out of the hospital and back in action as well.
Posted by doublechinner on :
YES! I haven't read much other Winnick, but this has been really good. It feels fresh and classic at the same time.
Posted by MLLASH on :
And Howard Porter's art-- it was alright on the RAY and JLA, but he's entering a category of his own on this book!
Posted by doublechinner on :
Yeah, Lash, Porter's art is amazing. I thought I would hate the aged Captain Marvel look, but Porter has done a great job re-imagining the look of the character. If you designed old Shazam today, that's would he would look like.
One complaint: I really don't like the idea of calling Freddy "Shazam." I know DC doesn't own the copyright to Captain Marvel and all, but "Shazam" isn't a hero's name. If Freddy is Shazam, then he still can't say his hero name.
Wait! He can say "I'm Shaz...the hero formerly known as Captain Marvel, Jr." Yeah, that's it!
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
Ish #3 is out. Winnick did a fine job juxtapose a fight scene with the real "trial" of the issue. Seeing Freddie admit his anger and move past it makes me like him more, and I've never been a fan. He always seemd to make Cap less special to me.
And Porter makes this a beautiful read.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
Sidekicks/knockoffs can do that. A lot of people feel that any other survivor of Krypton automatically diminishes Superman.
Me, I always preferred Cap Jr. for a number of reasons. That great Raboy art, for one.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
And Freddie continues his quest. His appearance in this week's 52 doesn't match the Freddie we're getting here. I guess a year will do that to you.
Still a good story- we get to see Freddie becoming more of a man, and earning those qualities of the gods.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
A year, and having your world turned upside down.
I noticed they went with the red cape in #52.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
Freddie continues his quest this week. And he faces off against our looming villain. Here's hoping when this is done, she becomes a routine thorn in the Marvels' sides.
Porter's artwork here doesn't look quite as clean as the first issue. He mentioned it was rather time consuming, and I think it's starting to show.
It's an exciting story, but nothing truly defining as a Marvel/Shazam specific one.
Posted by MLLASH on :
I read # 6...
It continues to rawk, both story & art!
So, is Billy Batson pretty much out of the picture now?
Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
It looks that way. But I suspect that it won't last.
Posted by MLLASH on :
I love Jr. and Mary and all, but don't want Billy to stay as the new Wizard!
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
I don't mind Billy being the new wiz, as long as he's still out there throwing down with the baddies. I certainly don't want him sidelined for Freddie.
Posted by The Daxamite Kid on :
Okay, I'll be a dissenter.
ToZ is interesting but by far, the better Shazam book is Jeff Smith's Monster Society mini. Smith gets it about the classic Shazam mythos. The art and story both combine to give you a wonderful sense of fun and light-heartedness.
Winick has done a good job with ToZ but I have to ask, must every DCU character be dark and gritty? Billy is essentially done for, having to become the new Wizard and caretaker of the new punk'd out Rock of Eternity. I admit Freddie's time has come and this keeps in line with DC's new track record of 'promoting' sidekicks (see Conner, Bart, Donna, etc)
There have been some pretty good insights about the gods and their trails which have been interesting, but overall this mini seems to be taking Cap and Family onto a decidely darker path and I have to wonder if that's a good thing especially when you have Smith's work that is a fine celebration of his past.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
I don't think anyone disagrees with ya TDK. Smith is making the Marvel family and it's history work. Maybe more comics need to ignore "realism" and just go for the fun stories.
Between Wagner's Batman and Smith's Cap Marvel, they've demonstrated there is a market for it.
Posted by stephbarton on :
Yeah, I'm hating TOS (not even buying it anymore).
At first, I disliked it because it was changing (in my mind) everything that made me like the Marvels and made them unique.
Recently, I feel that its very insubstantial and as a book isn't worth $3.
For example, nothing happens in the last issue, in fact, it only felt like half an issue, I think we've should have gotten a fight. With the delays that already plague this book having a light issue does not help me enjoy it.
Also, I love Freddy, I really do. But I love him as CMJ, I think by promoting him to Captain Marvel or Shazam takes away from what made the character work for me.
He was never really a sidekick to begin with so I don't see the need to 'promote' him. Also, sidelining Billy to do it is a bad move.
Morever, Junior worked really well because he handled darker and creepier things than the other two, by making him the main guy you either take away his ability to deal with these other areas OR you taint the entire family with the darkness.
Furthermore, I loved his classic look. He is one of my favorite characters to draw, I like how he had this unique look (with the hair) and that the character never seemed to need to change it to 'fit' in. Also, I liked the slim athletic form and the blue with lightning bolt just really appeals to me as a costume. So I don't like the fact that they are changing his look.
That said, I can understand why people like it, there are some good stuff. I just feel like it is the wrong direction in that it is removing what makes the Marvels unique and what I love about them. They are turning Freddy into just another superhero, and why should I really care about that.
Now I have some potential problems with MSOE, but I'll wait to see what Smith is doing with it before I make my final verdict (what's up with Mary? she's all of a sudden not super strong, the Bromsfields are evil, what?) but the light hearted fun, the art, and the magic are all really well done and remind me why these characters appeal to me.
Whew, long post, but I love the Marvels, I just don't like what TOS is doing to them.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
Just curious if anyone knows when the next issue is due...
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
Issues 7 & 8 are scheduled for October, if anyone else is listening
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
We've got a new issue, and SHAZAM has a new god. DC replaced Porter on the art, but they did a fine job finding a replacement. We still get that digital painted look.
If you're a Freddy Freeman fan, this book makes him shine.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
I've been put off by the idea of yet another set of beings sharing names with the Olympic gods and goddesses, but I thought the Apollo and now the Mercury issues were quite strong.
Apollo's choice, in particular, was dramatically interesting. And Talky Tawny's debut was a cool scene. I enjoyed it more than I would if I'd read about it (in which case I would've been predisposed to dislike it), so I won't spoil it.
I hope Sabine/Sabina? sticks around in the DCU as a great *new* VILLAINESS. I'm worried, though, that she'll be an addition to the Marvel family proper as a replacement for Mary Marvel, as she's going through the wringer in COUNTDOWN. I'd *hate* that.
Posted by Reboot on :
From an extraneous thread:
quote:Originally posted by RED-001: Has anyone seen [Curse of Shazam] previews at the Newsrama site?
How does Freddy Freeman look as a blonde? Will Mary go by the last name of Bromfield? How will the rogues gallery be affected by this reboot(Dr.Sivanna,Black Adam, Mister Mind,Mister Atom,etc.)?
Inquiring minds need to know!!! Posted by Dave Hackett on :
People are aware the first few installments are already out, right? I believe there was some discussion in the Justice League thread (none of it too positive). I only read the first story and it was pretty depressing with jerk Billy and buff Sivana and pretty much a subversion of the whole mythos. I just think they really missed the boat (didn't get the next issue).
Posted by Suddenly Seymour on :
The second issue just carried that thread and made Billy even more of a jerk. Pair it with Gary Frank's zombified art, and it's just a failure on all levels so far.
Posted by Dev - Em on :
Read the first installment...did not like anything about it.
I keep looking at the Jeff Smith Monster Society of Evil HC next to my pc and wondering why they really felt the need to mess with the formula. If in the right hands (such as Smith), the characters work wonderfully.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I read the first story only because it was a free download. Pretty awful.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Evil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
![[LOL]](graemlins/lol.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)