quote:

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Originally posted by Outdoor Miner:
Very, very promising start to the storyline.

I'm hoping we'll start that less psycho Bats that has been rumored.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Fat Cramer:
Looks like I'll start buying Batman again. At least until Grant Morrison moves in and puts the Batcave on Mars.

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I'd still buy it. He'd make it work somehow.
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
This is Batman.
 

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Posted by rtvu2 on :
 
Agree. This the Batman we all have been sorely missing.
 

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Posted by Tamper Lad on :
 
I heard an interview with Rags Morales and he said when Paul Dini and he take over Detective, they'll be doing complete stories in one issue for the most part.

Morrison and Andy Kubert are on "Batman" haven't heard what GM plans. It might be nice if Batman had more multipart epics while "Detective" had shorter self-contained issues.
 

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Posted by Pov on :
 
According to this interview on Newsarama, JH Williams III (Promethea, Desolation Jones) will be illustrating Dini's stories now. Not sure what's up with Rags... I think there's a link to info somewhere in the responses there.

I'm seriously torn... JH is one of THE best artists around, and I'm happy for his mainstream exposure, but it sounds like he's off Desolation *and* hasn't started on 7 Soldiers #1 yet... still waiting on Morrison's script.

AND it's Batman. Feh.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
But Pov, its good well-written Batman!
 

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Posted by Fat Cramer on :
 
Read the first three Robinson issues on the weekend - it is good Batman. I was happy to see Jason Bard, an old favourite, along with the classic Gordon. The only Batman I'd read for years was The Long Hallowe'en TPB, which struck me as really stretched and repetitive. So Bats is back on the list, for now. I agree with Tamper Lad that a mix of multi-part and one issue stories would be best.
 

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Posted by rtvu2 on :
 
Just read the latest issues. Awesome! I don't know hoe Dini will play catch up to this.
 

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Posted by Fat Cramer on :
 
Maybe he won't. Read the Facade issue (Detective #821) - the story was okay, but didn't knock me out. It seemed a bit simplistic and I really didn't like the idea that Gotham "society' were the better class of people. I know the character Facade condemned them as just wearing facades themselves, but the message from the Batman seemed to be don't mess with my tribe of gentlemen.

Interesting JH Williams art.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Morrison's Batman has arrived, and it is KICK-ASS so far. I'm really liking it, especially Bruce's interaction with Robin & Alfred. Great way to begin, by showing the Joker the exit (a great Batman run with no Joker for awhile? Yay!), and Bruce not actually shooting him, but allowing that myth to circulate. Funny Jim Gordon scene.

I love Morrison's take on less popular characters, but he really feels like he's born to write Superman & Batman too.

Dini's latest Detective was a ton of fun too. Great Riddler story, good 'detective' aspect to it, and an excellent done in one story that reminds me of the animated series.

These two titles OYL (as well as Robin and Catwoman) are very appealing.
 

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Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Fat Cramer:
but the message from the Batman seemed to be don't mess with my tribe of gentlemen.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Fat Cramer:
I assumed it was Talia, because I was told that this issue is tied into Son of a Demon.

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Right on both. Son of a Demon is one of the few pre-Hush Batman arcs I think I collected.

Read #656 and it wasn't too bad, maybe a bit predictable. Does anyone else think that Kubert's art looks like Wally Wood here though? I had flashbacks to House of Mystery and Plop! while reading some panels. Especially the ones with Langstrom.

[ August 23, 2006, 10:06 PM: Message edited by: Lightning Lad ]
 

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Posted by rtvu2 on :
 
ninja man-bats, nuff said!
 

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Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
 
Not to mention... Thanksgiving with Aunt Agatha!
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
I can't wait!

And yes, that's Talia and her and Bruce's son that has been in and out of continuity for twenty years.

I think this is the [insert whichever brother it is} Kubert art I've seen possibly ever too!

Matt, I highly reccomend both books right now. think we're on the verge of a GREAT era for the main two bat-books.
 

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Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
 
"Man-bats. Ninja Man-bats. Alarming twist."
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Oct issues:

Detective - I'm loving these stories so far! Reformed Penguin was great, and seeing reformed Riddler again was cool too. I hope both keep a continued presence in the stories. Dini's Bruce was great to see too. The wise-cracking Batman of this new era is fun. Lois Lane was a plus, and the story itself was well-written and fun. If that Magician stays around, he could end up being a very likable character. I already like his motivation for staying.

What has me most excited is next month's solicit with Dr. Phosphorus. I like the lesser known Bat-villains the most. I don't see how Rupert Thorne could be around though, considering he was killed by Hugo Strange in the 70's.

Batman - Also a great read. I already hate Batman's kid though, and hope we don't see *too* much of him. Still, Morrison did a great job as usual, and the dramatic show of Damien holding the Spook's severed head was done very well. Batman is great here again, and the scene when he yells at Damien was very intense and welcome.

The Spook is another villain I really like, although this version had pretty much run out of mystery, so I don't mind his death. I wouldn't mind seeing Morrison introducing a second Spook with even more mystery that could potentially be a big threat to Batman.

All and all, I'm quite satifisied with the (2) main Bat titles still and can't wait for more!
 

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Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
 
Previews of next week's Batman and Detective are up at Newsarama.
 

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Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
 
Still looking quite good.

Bats makes a pretty fanciful leap of logic in the Detective issue, but hey, these are done-in-ones and you've got to keep moving.

These runs are the best Bat-stuff I've seen in quite a while.
 

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Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
 
I really dug the latest issue of Detective. I'm loving the current take on the Riddler!
 

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Posted by Fat Cramer on :
 
Out of current continuity - there are three Batman Black & White volumes, anthologies of Batman stories with black and white artwork. I just finished volume 3. It's a good mix of styles and moods, with work by many well known creators (Bruce Timm, Joe Kubert, Howard Chakin, Archie Goodwin, Matt Wagner, Alex Toth, etc etc). There are also several pages of sketch galleries and cover illustrations.

The stories are pretty much what I'd call classic Batman, not the psycho-freaky version we had before OYL.

Best of the bunch was a real surprise: a very funny Batman-Joker story by Neil Gaiman, "It's a Black and White World", in which Batman and the Joker are characters on a comic book "set" (like a movie set), except they have to wait offstage while a prior panel is being drawn. So they get into conversation....
 

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Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester:
I really dug the latest issue of Detective. I'm loving the current take on the Riddler!

---

Me too. Riddler has always been my favorite. I mean the Joker is fun but for some reason I just dug the Riddler. I don't pay to much attention to the Bat-verse but with Morrison/Kubert and the Riddler in Countdown it made me check it out. Love the new status quo on the Riddler. I want a mini.
 

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Posted by Caliente on :
 
I read the Zantana Trust arc (it was just two issues), and I loved it. I loved Batman's thoughts on it and Z's sincerity and the way they teamed up. The whole thing... so neat. And made me wonder what it would have been like if they had been closer...
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Also loved the latest Zatanna arc in Detective. Dini really nailed it with character moments between Zatanna and Bruce. It was very well done. I especially love that he didn’t ignore any parts of past continuity, even if I loathe some of them, and progressed the characters to a different place by the end of the story. The reveal of the villain was actually pretty awesome. It made total sense but I didn’t actually see it coming. Its more and more rare to actually find a good story with that villain, so this was surprisingly nice.

Morrison’s Batman continues to entertain me highly. His ‘three evil Batmen’ arc is kewl in such a Morrison way, because its different than what we’re used to, which is sorely needed in a main Batman title. Damien isn’t exactly a fave of mine, but I’m looking forward to Ra’s Al Ghul, who along with Two-Face, remains what I would say is Batman’s greatest villain.

Jorg, also love the new status quo of the Riddler. Just like the Penquin has been given a very cool status quo (for some time now, at least a few years), the Riddler needed something like this.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Well, two issues into Morrison's latest storyline in Batman, and I've got to say: this is pretty awesome!

I think this might be his best storyline yet for Bats. I really enjoy the International Club of Heroes, and I like the dynamic that he gives each hero. Its especially awesome to see the then/now appearances of each one, and how they've changed.

Obviously, there's a riff here on 'And then there were none', which is an excellent novel itself. So, following that line of thinking, the killer will end up being one of the heroes that has already died. My guess right now? Wingman. But that might be too easy. However, he's so 'grim n' gritty anti-Batman' that it hurts, so that might make him the surprise killer. However, the Australian hero could work too, and he's certainly had a degree of opportunity in the story so far. Then there's the possiblity that its the original Knight, but I'm not too sure about that.

Overall, I find it brillant so far. This is the type of Batman story I've wanted to read from Morrison. If anyone is not reading, be sure to check it out!

Also, Dini's Detective remains consistently good, with each issue having at least one element in the story that is surprisingly pleasing.

As DC's line of titles continues to crumble into sub-par story-telling, the main Batman titles continue to produce high quality entertainment.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
So I may be the only one reading Batman and posting to this thread, but hell, as top poster, thread decorum no longer applies to me!

Because, frankly, Batman by Morrison and Tony Daniels is just too awesome not to talk about. Though I like the Kubert boys, Tony Daniels has arrived to at long last give me an artist whose art I find as equally appealing as I do Morrison's writing (particularly DC writing). And thus, begins Batman: RIP, with art that is nothing short of phenominal: great looking protagnists, a sense of action and dynamics, awesome looking villains, a serious blast of tension and constant mis en scene giving hints to the larger story throughout.

Morrison's writing is tight and fun, and here more than anything else he's done lately, I can easily read into it and come with a theory about what he's trying to accomplish with Batman: RIP, and really, what's he's been setting up his entire run. The long-standing question about whether Batman is 'not all there' in the head, emotionally stunted and seriously a headcase is about to be put to rest. And thank God, because this 1986-2006 widespread notion that this may be so is beyond tiresome and should be laid to rest. The idea that Batman, the most important DC hero of them all (tied with Superman) is possibly insane is just stupid. And though we had some great stories about it, and then some so-so ones, and then some really bad ones, and then some more ones that were so tiring I couldn't bother to judge them, its long time to lay that tired old bit to rest. And so Morrison is doing that--by first making it as outrageous as possible.

And in the character of Jezebal Jet, we see that, as she gives Bruce a pretty good analysis that I've seen 1,000+ fans, editors and columnists do and [sarcasm] they were so witty about it[/sarcasm]. Morrison has made Jet pretty unremarkable thus far, not really bothering to give us more than standard characterization and I can't help but feel that's on purpose (indeed, all she really has going for her is a very appealing visual). I almost thought she'd turn out to be an assassin for the Black Glove, but that would be too repetitive (Bruce can only date so many femme fatales). Rather he gives us a pretty realistic, smart woman who voices all the annoying psuedo-psychological analysis that have become standard messaage board Bat-bore. And its so convincing that it seems likely Morrison will ultimately refute it all with Bruce's eventual victory in this story, and I can't wait.

Meanwhile, the Black Glove itself is a very interesting tale, connecting to both the above story I mentioned almost a year ago (the Club of Heroes story) and the ongoing notion that there has been a nemesis battling Batman unseen in the shadows for a number of years (since the pre-Silver Age 1950's to be precise). And its been wonderfully done so far.

Plus, the Club of Villains, the assembled international sect of villains helping the Black Glove look nothing less than awesome thus far. We'll see how they are executed.

Alfred shines, being the person to always trust in Bruce; as does Commissioner Gordon, who remains the compass of morality in this series. Robin has a pretty subtle and quiet character-arc but continues to guest-star while not being an outright partner in the title (which is generally how I like it 80% of the time).

The idea of bringing this 'psychologically schizophrenic Batman' theory to the utter brink of being a real possibility is great to see done so blatantly over the top. The subplot where the investigator encourages Gordon to believe that the Wayne's were abusive and drug-addicts, including Martha Wayne as a heroin addict and that Thomas Wayne may have faked his death and killed her, is so outrageous I'd call it pure genius. In fact, I will call it pure genius, since I came up with it a few years ago here on Legion World Grant is doing exactly what I intended and what Giffen and Ennis excel at—poking fun at the outrageousness that comics sometimes produce and which are a by-product of these ‘Batman is crazy’ notions during the last 20 years. Honestly, if Bats wasn’t Bats (re: one of comics two true icons), I can easily see how this could have been a story in 1994. Even the current DC seems pretty susceptible to doing something like that.

Obviously I’m a Morrison fan, and I make no apologies for that. But this—this is pure genius and like All-Star Superman, heads and shoulders above what else is being produced these days.

[ June 10, 2008, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: Cobalt Kid ]
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
Cobie, that's a well written post there. I'm with you in wanting the Bruce is schizo story put to rest. Grant brings it to the forefront with Jet, and it's all so logical and obvious when she states it. I can almost see it being true, tho' Grant uses it to build a better Batman.

The character assassination of the Waynes seems so fake to me. I can't imagine Gordon ever giving it credence. It's as much a ploy by Batman's for as Jet's psychological analysis; I'm almost sure they are part of the Black Glove's master plan.

I'm looking forward to the story, but I'm a little concerned with all the tie-ins. I don't doubt Morrisson will deliver. It's just others picking up on his story that worry me.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Yeah, I share your same concerns Ceej. I definately worry about the tie-ins and how they can really put a few 'meh' chapters into an otherwise great story.

Between Morrison on Batman, Dixon on Robin & Outsiders and a fairly consistent Detective Comics, I'm pretty happy with the Bat-books these days.
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
CBR has a story about Frank Tieri doing the Outsiders tie in. But he sounds like he's got some good ideas in the interview.
 

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Posted by veryvery on :
 
ahh i didn't get the "over-the-top therefore acceptable" aspect of it. i read the first issues of batman RIP and it was SO ridiculous that i balked. he brought some lady he doesn't know into the bat cave? and i'm sorry but her name is JEZEBEL? no one's name is jezebel!

btwm were they insinuating that photo was an orgy?!! i wasn't sure what they were trying to say was IN the horrifying photo featuring the waynes and alfred. but i threw up in sheer horror.

and... yeah it makes no sense that batman is schizo. at all. none. he rolls with telepaths ALL THE TIME, that is DUMB. unless the next issue has him going "oh wait, no, that's stupid" and punching that lady in the face, this ruse is too insane.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
VV, now that you mention it, I do think he was insinuating an orgy/heroine use scene with the Waynes, Alfred, John Mayhew and others, to show just how ridiculous and over the top it was. Ultimately I think its a criticism of these types of stories with the intent of ending the 'schizo Batman' theory once and for all at story's end.

What's especially intriguing to me is that while I put the 'schizo Batman' notion to date back to the mid-80's, and some might even say the 70's, Morrison is going all the way back to before the Silver Age as the start of it.
 

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Posted by Fat Cramer on :
 
It's an interesting, campy twist to the Batman story. There have been so many Batman tales told, I was glad to see Morrison come up with something unexpected (to me, at least - even though Cobie thought of it first). It's outrageous, but not without precedent in real life - icons of society who turn out to have a terrible secret life. Also, I'm relieved, perhaps prematurely, that Batman isn't going to be killed physically; it appears that he's just going to have to re-evaluate his reason for existence, and go in a new direction.

The Jezebel thing, though - has Bruce been hypnotized to trust her? Maybe Silver St. Cloud or Selina can arrive on the scene to save him and show Jezebel to be a traitor. Besides, she looked like trash in those tight jeans and high spike heels. (I know, it's a guy thing....)

Do you think Bruce and Alfred can really say "bat computer" with a straight face?

The full page panels were quite dramatic.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fat Cramer:
Do you think Bruce and Alfred can really say "bat computer" with a straight face?

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
...Dixon on Robin & Outsiders... I'm pretty happy with the Bat-books these days.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by CJ Taylor:
DC should learn from RIP and the Sinestro Corps events. We don't want large all encompassing cross overs, but the occasional story line bleeding into related titles is acceptable

---

Sales of Secret invasion seem to suggest otherwise.

At any rate, DC did learn from Sinestro Corps War. That's why RIP and the upcoming Superman crossover are unfolding the way they are. That's also part of why Final Crisis is comparatively self-contained.

The fanbase is rewarding DC for this by....well, by buying just about everything that says "Secret Invasion" on it.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
A great analysis of individual issues of Morrison's Batman run can be found here. Start from the bottom though and work your way up.

I just spent an hour reading them, and its great stuff, and helped me refresh my memory of what's gone down so far.

I honestly have no idea where this is going and that pleases me. Like most of you, I'd imagine, there are a handful of guesses I'd be able to make but honestly they'd just be guesses.

I do think "Batman is crazy" or "Batman is actually the Black Glove" is a red herring. I love, love, love the fact that Honor Jackson, Bat-Mite and the Batman of Zur-En-Arrh are a way for Batman's psyche to combat psychological attacks.

I'm in love with this run. For the first time in years (decades?) I think Batman might be DC's best [in-contiuity] comic. Its certainly surpassed JSA, and is tied with GL at least.
 

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Posted by Pov on :
 
LOLCatz sez, "Ai RIPz all yer Bats-Man comix!"
 

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Posted by Fat Cramer on :
 
If Batman has Bat-Mite, Catwoman should have LOLCatz.

Thanks for the annotations Cobie. I luvs me some annotations (especially for Morrison), but wonder about more and more comics needing annotations...

Anyways, it's good to go back and see what I missed.
 

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Posted by Cobaltus Primus Augustus on :
 
I'm the same way FC. I love annotations, especially like here, but I've got to wonder if its a good thing that there's such a pre-existing gap to be filled by these annotations.
 

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Posted by veryvery on :
 
listened to comicbookqueers podcast and one of the hosts suggested this: Click Here For A Spoilerthe black glove is the devil, perhaps Neron. this came from something grant morrison said on his site which was basically "it's very upfront". here's the quote "Can YOU guess the identity of the Black Glove? I keep thinking it’s so upfront, so obvious, that readers will inevitably demand an impromptu hanging when the reveal is revealed but, as ever, the looming possibility of public execution is part of the fun of writing BATMAN."

ok so ... the podcast made me want to pick it up again. the host suggested that all the things that gordon was throwing out at the beginning was more like morrison talking to us going "it's not this, this, or this".

i want to read this but i need your help, guys! a big problem i was having was that i didn't understand what order to read these in! the checklist doesn't seem to list in chrnono-order!
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
Okay so while Morrison plays with Batman's mind, Dini is messing with his heart. The latest issue of 'Tec is full of Hush being sick and twisted, Scarecrow being creepy, and a hell of an ending.

This book truly deserves more spotlight.
 

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Posted by rouge on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by veryvery:

i want to read this but i need your help, guys! a big problem i was having was that i didn't understand what order to read these in! the checklist doesn't seem to list in chrnono-order!

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quote:

---

Originally posted by LardLad:
Having read R.I.P. and having both enjoyed AND been severely confused by it, I'm wondering how essentially it is tied to the stories that occurred between it and the Damien arc. Since I've not read the story that introduced the Black Glove, I can't help but think I should've read it first because I don't think Grabt gave new readers to this arc everything they needed to know.

So is R.I.P. just as confusing having read all the prior Morrison arcs or not? Would it help to buy those stories?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:

Ceej, what revelation are you speaking of? Is it the Alfred thing? Because I'm not 100% clear on that. I took it that at the end Grant was saying Alfred was always Batman's ally, and the Lump was only messing with his memories. But for awhile, it looked like Alfred was never ressurected after his death in the Silver Age, and the Lump had been posing as Alfred for the entire last 35-ish years! That is quite the twist, and pretty interesting, but I assuredly would hate it if it were true--which it doesn't appear to be. Still, its fascinating.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by CJ Taylor:
D
Batman and Robin - presumably Morrison's book

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
by Judd Winnick. Horrible. Crap. Terrible. Burn it.

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And you're surprised...?
 

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Posted by LardLad on :
 
So far, I haven't read enough of the new wave of Batman to make a judgement, but Detective and B&R are early favorites. Red Robin, I didn't pick up after flipping thru it. Art was terrible. Everything else I've picked up at least two issues of but haven't read both issues yet of all. I may also buy the new Batgirl for a couple issues at least if they stand up to the eyeball test. I'll definitely pass on Azrael, though.

I'll submit a report card after I've got enough info to process them. However, I do want to point out that Cobalt's reviews seem heavily biased by his dislike of Damien and Dick in their respective roles. I, for one, am open to the possibilities here. It's actually a little weird, seeing how Cobalt was so high on Grant & Dini's Batman work just a year ago--does your disagreement with the changes just kill any merits to their writing for you, CK?

I feel Cobalt makes a lot of assumptions about where Dick's story's going and unfairly compares this to "Prodigal". The general concepts behind the two are miles apart given the circumstances. As for Damien, what's the point of having a new Robin if he's exactly like the other ones? Yeah, he's basically an ass from the get-go, but this certainly leaves a lot of room for growth and storytelling. How it will be executing remains to be soon, but it has a lot of potential. Maybe the argument is that there was nothing wrong with the old Robin, but this has clearly been on the way since Damien was introduced two years ago.

My early impressions are:

Batman is the one to skip--not just because of Winick, but beacause after that, there's a revolving door of iffy-to-mediocre writers to come.

Red Robin's skippable, too, because of the iffy direction and crappy art.

Streets of Gotham has Paul Dini, so if it's a little shaky at the start, it'll probably get a lot better (and the art is solid). And the Manhunter backup is already clicking on all cylinders!

Gotham City Sirens may be worth a trial, of a few months at least, despite another shaky start. Dini's writing Harley and Ivy, so if Dini can stabilize and establish, it could be fun and kinda reinvent Birds of Prey.

Batman & Robin and Detective Comics are already absolute musts. Grant is telling clear stories that suit Batman well, channeling All-Star Superman Grant instead of trippy incoherent Final Crisis Grant. And Detective...J.H. Williams III is just one of the very best artists in comics, bar none! Rucka's writing just let's Williams do his thing to tell the story without making it needlessly complicated. Terrific stuff!!!
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
I'll give you my thoughts on the status quo and then that should funnel into a response your question, Lardy.

Honestly, a lot of it stems from major dissapoint I've felt about DC these last few years. It has been one series of marketing ploys and editorially driven tendencies headed by Dan Didio that has left me feeling very cold towards the company as a whole. I think DC has crossed a line these last few years making them much worse than Marvel--even worse than the Marvel of 1992. Obviously, there are still several DC comic I am liking right now (see my various reviews in various threads), but the feeling is there overall.

No where is this more apparent than what is going on in Batman. It all feels like a big marketing ploy to me, and its one that has been done before. There is nothing new or original about Dick Grayson taking over the mantel as Batman. It was done both well and poorly in 'imaginery stories' throughout the 50's & 60's, and then it was done very well in the 90's with Prodigal. I'm just very unenthusiastic about seeing it again.

Does this all spin out of Grant's longterm story? It probably does but that doesn't help make me like anymore. I was the biggest supporter of Grant's run on Batman up until the change in status quo, and I still think his writing is good for the most part in Batman & Robin, but the new set-up is too distracting for me to enjoy it.

As for Damien, I find him as annoying as any other character I've ever seen in comic books. There is a reason Bat-fans had Jason Todd killed in the 80's and its exactly the same reason we don't like Damien. He's annoying. I see what you're saying, that his will be a long road to overcome and that might be interesting to see--just not to me.

The most glaring thing about the new status quo is that I already know how it ends. Bruce resumes his role as Batman. Bruce Wayne will ultimately outlive me and all of us, and he'll always be Batman. So where does that leave Dick? That's what I'm worried about.

Dick was perfect as Nightwing prior to this. They could have simply had him take Bruce's spot in the JLA for a time and that would have been fine too. But once he's Batman, the idea of him reverting back to Nightwing will feel like a demotion. And I don't trust this new kill-happy DC; rather than demoting him, they'd kill him off in a spectucular and heroic death scene that would remind Bruce of his struggle against crime and injustice. And that story, if it came to pass, will simply just suck. I hope I'm wrong. Either way, Dick being turned back into Nightwing has the potential to be awful, and I'm been burnt by DC too many times these last few years. The notion of Dick one day taking over as Batman is one all comic book readers are familiar with and one I like. I just don't want to ever see it, because Bruce Wayne will always be Batman in the end, like Clark Kent will always be Superman. Anything that changes along the way will ultimately be changed back so it almost feels like it doesn't count.

That all being said, I did read another title, Gotham Sirens, which I mentioned my CBS gave me a copy of. Its actually really good, with Dini doing a good job and the art being really awesome. I like Selina, Ivy and Harley but am not sure how into the series I'll be with those three as the stars. I may pick up another issue, or hunt for #1, but I may not. Depends how I feel when I get to the store.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Oh, and if DC does kill Dick Grayson, be prepared for Reboot, myself and others all giving you "I told you so's" and implying you are all accomplices
 

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Posted by LardLad on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
The most glaring thing about the new status quo is that I already know how it ends. Bruce resumes his role as Batman. Bruce Wayne will ultimately outlive me and all of us, and he'll always be Batman. So where does that leave Dick? That's what I'm worried about.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
Oh, and if DC does kill Dick Grayson, be prepared for Reboot, myself and others all giving you "I told you so's" and implying you are all accomplices

---

You know...if anything Damien's in the most danger of not living through all this. I mean, can you really see Bruce returning and pairing with his own biological son as Robin? Just not seeing it!

But if you ARE right, puh-leeze, Dick's "death" will only last a year or two max!
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
I'm counting on Damien dying...its the silver lining to the whole thing
 

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Posted by doublechinner on :
 
I always appreciate and enjoy your analysis but this time I disagree. We DON'T know how the story will end for the important character details we care about. What WILL happen to Dick? What IS Damien's ultimate fate? (Personally, I think Bruce will be reborn in Damien's body and Damien's soul will take over R'as Al Ghul's body and become the new R'as.) Second, I think if you LIKE Dick Grayson as a character, you have to admit the potential fun of watching him trying to be Batman. That doesn't mean actual DC creative and editorial staff will do a good job with it. Although I would argue that Grant's storytelling has been near pitch-perfect so far in B&R. I even liked the Widdick-scripted scene between Dick, Alfred and the Justice League. The interractions between Dick and Alfred are just...awesome in B&R. They are reminding us of what is good and essential and interesting about these characters in the first place. And that is always a good thing. Normally, I hate prick characters, but I'm enjoying Damien because we expect him to be a jerk. It's therefore interesting on those occasions where he is not a jerk and/or gets his backside handed to him. If he's still a jerk 3 years from now, I'll lose interest, but for now, it's fine. I'm reminded of how Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan made Luke Skywalker a whiny, impatient jerk in Empire Strikes Back. It made him a more interesting character since we got to see him overcome it.

I completely agree that, any valid and interesting story points aside, DC has made this more marketing ploy that legitimate story. I would still bet on Morrison making it a legitimate story in the end. But the multiple books, many contradictory and of mediocre quality, says marketing ploy. That's why I'm only reading B&R and Detective, which is the most interesting and gorgeous comic of the year.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Well, hopefully you guys will be proved right. As you can tell by earlier in the thread, I love Batman and I love Morrison so I don't want to see the title suck.

But if message boards taught me anything these last 10 years, its that when something annoys you to such a degree, you must not only say how much you dislike it, you must go out of your way to destroy it
 

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Posted by Fat Cramer on :
 
I'd rather see Damien grow up into a well-tempered hero than killed off. Or even a bit of a rascally, borderline bad guy, like Catwoman.

As for killing Dick Grayson by 2012... I bet they don't. Of course they could always revive him, but I'm hoping that the dead heroes thing is wearing thin, and the comics industry is going to have to find another trick with which to jerk us around.

And, yeah, way too many Bat books of little interest.
 

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Posted by Blacula on :
 
I'm loving the Bat-books right now!

And by "Bat-books" I mean Detective and Batman & Robin, the only two I buy.

People would love DC a whole lot more if they only bought the good books, like I do.
 

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Posted by LardLad on :
 
A big point in this direction's favor is that though Dick may not be Nightwing anymore, he's still Dick here. They're not trying to make him just like Bruce; they're writing this fully respecting that there's a different, well-defined character under the cowl with a rich personality very distinctive from Bruce Wayne. Yes, there was nothing wrong with him being Nightwing, but no one's trying to strip Dick of what makes him the character we know.

Another way to look at this is that Nightwing's comic had pretty much been crap since Chuck Dixon left, both from my own experience and from what I've heard since I dropped the title. Apparently, Tomasi was bringing it around towards the end, but this was after years of very forgettable runs started by that hack Devin Grayson. I'd certainly soured on the title and the character and may never have jumped back on board regardless of what creator came on board (short of a Geoff Johns-type announcement).

Rather than this being a lead-in to DC killing him off, I think it'll be a lead-in to a new era of interest and creative enrgy infused in the character after he takes off the cowl, whether it's a return to Nightwing or whatever. It'll be a chance for him to take his place next to Hal Jordan and other recent successful character revivals.

I think that's where DC is going with this, honestly, and if so, I support the effort. I personally think Dick has been stuck in a rut for a while, and this may just be the shot in the arm he needs. He's just been bouncing around in a kind of purgatory between a mediocre-to-lousy solo title and umpteen Titans or Outsiders revivals. Maybe he'll emerge from this stronger than ever with a new higher profile and that rut fading in his rearview mirror. A big part of that, I believe, should be to finally end his involvement with the Titans.

Time for him to grow up and leave the kid stuff behind, I say. I'd be just as mad if he reverts back to the same old crappy treadmill he's been on as I would if DC killed him.
 

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Posted by Jerry on :
 
I'm enjoying Batwoman in Detective. That may not be a good thing because what I like lately never seems to be commercially successful. I would love to see this version of Batwoman sell. The visuals are really interesting.

[ August 08, 2009, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: Jerry ]
 

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Posted by Blockade Boy on :
 
The Batwoman part is good, great even. This is the first time I've picked up a Batman book since Hush.

My issue is with the Question part. Slow, slow, slow. A whole page dedicated to watching the Question walk down a hallway, sheesh. Shame too. The premise of the story seemed good, though the question aspect a bit silly.

Dropped it off my list. Can't pay $4 for a $2.50 book.
 

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Posted by Raging Bull on :
 
Quite a trick, secreting a poisoned razor blade in one's mouth while still being able to speak (and cough) without impediment.

Other than that little belief-dissuspender, I'm enjoying the adventures of Batwoman.

(Poor Dick: first, he gets the number of covens in Gotham wrong; second, he's apparently clueless when it comes to the difference between genuine red hair and a red wig. Didn't all his canoodling with Barbara Gordon teach him anything?)
 

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Posted by Jerry on :
 
Kate and Maggie Sawyer chatting and dancing in tuxes at a society event in Detective #856. We've come a long way, Baby. The artwork continues to be amazing. Bette is an interesting addition. Looks like Kate's father is in serious trouble.
 

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Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
 
It's nice that Williams was able to make Bette LOOK like she came from the West Coast by giving her a tan. Of course, that might mean Flamebird might succumb to her new arch enemy, the dreaded Melamaniac.
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
So anyone not a fan of Jason Todd's return might want to read the current arc in Batman & Robin. I know I'm excited for the next issue. Tan's artwork is very different than Quietly's, and their stories reflect that in their tone. I don't know if it's Grant tailoring the story for each artist, but the energy, the mood, the story become something different with each artist.

The other Batman book is starting to finally come out from under the shadow of Battle for the Cowl. Currently it's still finding it's feet, but there's some fun stories with interesting leads and ideas. It doesn't have the distinct feel that Grant has brought to his book. I'm just waiting for the right creative team to bring it all together.
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
Detective Comics is the most beautiful book on the stands. The artwork in all three issues of Batwoman's story has been inventive as well as evocative. Much like Quietly and Tan have defined the tone on their work in B&R, Williams gives a mood to 'Tec that is distinct and captivating. Rucka said he didn't want the book to be about Kane's sexuality, but Williams certainly plays up the sexiness of both Kate Kane and Batwoman.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Ceej, you've summed up some of the appeal of the art in 'Tec. Whereas Rucka is purposely avoiding going into Kate's sexuality so explicitly, it lets Williams really showcase his extraordinary talent by doing so himself without all the story focus. Its really just an incredible book to behold.

I was just about to drop Sirens of Gotham City, since it really isn't all that great, but the latest Riddler-centric story (I may be an issue or two behind actually) was pretty well done. Not be Dini either, surprisingly but by Scott Lobdell, showin he still can do a great story. I'm still on the fence on whether I'd pick up another issue.

BTW, my favorite Dick-as-Batman appearance thus far? (readers of this thread know I'm not thrilled with it). Latest issue of Booster Gold. Really well done sequence with Dick and Booster, and it compliments the Booster/Bruce sequence from early on in Booster's current series. It showcases Dick's personality very well, I think without beating us over the head with it.

Still refusing to even browse Batman until Winnick is gone...
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
The latest issue of SIRENS brings Dini back. This book doesn't have the fun of S6, nor the charm of BOP. Like Cobie, i enjoyed the riddler story (by Lobdell?!!!?!?!?!) but Dini's story hasn't cut it. We get a wrap on the Joker story, with a nice bit of nod to Bat-history. And it's fitting that Dini does it.

The artwork here sometimes looks really incredible. Other times it looks inscomplete. This book is trying hard to be a must have title, and there's so much potential. Just not sure I want to keep waiting.
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
STREETS OF GOTHAM - Dini's other Bat book has me on the fence as well. I like getting the occasional story of a bystander's POV for one of Bats' adventures. Too often they end up being overly sappy. That hasn't been the case with this title. But instead, we seem to hop from character to character within issue. It doesn't give us time to get attached to any one POV- still not sure if that's good or bad.

Again, waiting for it to grab me. Not sure I want to continue.
 

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Posted by Jerry on :
 
Another thumbs up for Detective #859. Rucka is succeeding in giving Batwoman a compelling origin and back story.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Rereading this thread's last two pages, I must simply state the following: if Dick Grayson dies at any point during Bruce's return (even though we know Dick would then return in a few years), LMB continuity will therefore tie-in, as I will be forced to arrest Lardy and CJ for the murder of Dick Grayson as co-conspirators on the MMB.

Just sayin'
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
So for Comic Book Review Month, I'm getting around to some of the Bat-titles finally. The only one that I'm loving so much that I can't wait to read it is Detective Comics, so that's the only one I've read thus far (I'll do the others when I get to it). I've cancelled all the side titles other than Batman and Batman & Robin. None of them are good enough to continue to counter my distaste for this whole current status quo/marketing ploy. In other words I didn't give them the same chance I would other titles--I'm unfair like that.

So: Detective Comics. The truth is this comic book is so good that no matter how I feel about anything, I can't deny the quality and the need to keep reading. Seeing Batwoman's full origin completed was a treat and Rucka did a great job at showing a number of things, including her awesome relationship with her father which is a great dynamic. He also showed how her tragedy is constantly weighing her down but she's trying to use it to inspire her rather than consume her--very much like Batman. In fact, I'd say she's more like Batman than any other character ever after reading the latest parter. I also think that her relationship with Renee (the new Question) is a bad one; not bad in the sense that its bad to read (far from it--its quite interesting) but bad for both characters. Its simply too explosive...it reminds me of a relationship I once had and I'm sure many can relate.

When Batman inevitably takes back over Detective Comics, I can't wait to continue on with a Batwoman title by Rucka and Williams.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
I've now gotten around to reading Batman and once I did I remembered why I couldn't muster up the strength to read it sooner; I remember it wasn't that long ago it was at the top of my reading list.

I like Tony Daniel as an artist and I can tell that he's trying. But I find little to enjoy about the current Batman run. While he's bringing in several interesting characters whom I'm found of--love Hugo Strange, love the Falcones from Year One and Long Halloween and am interesting in revisiting the Reaper concept from Year Two--the story itself is kind of one big jumbled mess. Its basically running around in circles and hard to keep track of. While I'm glad the Penguin has an interesting odd assortment of "henchmen" I can't for the life of me figure out what they add to this story. And was it really necessary to re-use Black Mask, even if only in name, once again?

Added to all of this is the fact that Dick as Batman isn't really working on any level for me, particularly here. Nothing in this story uses Dick in a way that is different from how Bruce was used other than less experience. There's hardly anything different--in fact, you could easily have used the Spirit, Daredevil or someone else. Dick isn't acting like Batman *or* Dick. And Damien is not getting anymore likable to me anywhere, particularly here.

Unfortunately, I have to say I'm finding Batman to be a pretty unenjoyable read.
 

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Posted by Lardi on :
 
Gawd! I just finished Detective Comics #860 featuring Batwoman and can't say enough about how flat-out excellent this second arc by Rucka and Williams III was!

Though I enjoyed the first arc, it suffered a little from inaccessibility (all that Crime Bible stuff seemed like prerequisite reading for it) and felt a little underwritten.Alice made for kind of a dull villain, and her (presumed) non-stop quoting of Alice in Wonderland wore pretty thin. Plus, a lot of it just seemed weird for the sake of being weird. Alice didn't really pop for me until the reveal in the final chapter. It was basically a showcase story for Williams' astounding artwork. The art was so good I really didn't mind as much as I should have.

But the second arc which delved into Kate's backstory delivered in every phase! The writing was perfect and involving, and Williams showed us more of his dynamic range by switching art styles between the present and past sequences. I loved reading the story of the tragedies that happened in her childhood with her mom and sister and in her adulthood as a woman who wanted nothing more than to serve her country was cast out for nothing more than being completely true to herself and the code she had pledged to follow.

I liked that we didn't really get any stereotypes here in how Kate came to be a vigilante. She wasn't raped or abused or in any way a woman in any literal or metaphorical refrigerator! I found that very, very refreshing in today's comic climate.

I loved how it portrayed her dad. Not an affectionate, expressive man in any way, but nonetheless caring accepting and supportive of his daughter. In many ways Kate is her father's daughter. I hope Rucka (or whatever writers eventually succeed him writing the character) recognize how important the father is to her character and don't do something stupid like killing him off for cheap shock value.

I've admired J.H. Williams III's art for many years, most recently during his long run with Alan Moore on ABC's Promethea (which I highly recommend as an even better writing match for William's creative art style). He is an unbelievable talent! As wonderful as his more "artsy" layouts are, the proof of his talent for storytelling is in the flashback sequences. J.H. can draw the hell out of a comic any way he wants! He is truly one of the premier artistic talents of this era.

I wasn't enjoying the Question backups at all, but even that has picked up some steam in the latest installments. Nothing groundbreaking, but I'd say adding Huntress to the story has spiced things up a bit as they play off each other.

Though I'm excited about the arc with Jock doing the art on the Batwoman feature the next few issues, I'll definitely miss J.H.'s work. And I'm off Detective in April when Batwoman vacates it for an apparent fill-in arc featuring Batman. DC hasn't officially announced a Batwoman ongoing, but Rucka has all but said it's coming with J.H. continuing on art for a while. I just hope it'll start in May or June as this book looks to be one for the ages!
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
Well this week was Batman:Streets of Gotham. This is Dini's book since he left Detective. Mahnke is still doing the work for his stories. Mind you, less than a year in, and Dini's only written have the issues, with guest writers coming in.

The premise is stories of the Bat told from other Gothamites' POV. Dini tried his hand at this during an early episode of Batman:TAS. It's an interesting idea, seeing how Batman is view by other people. Unfortunately, that hasn't lasted long.

Each issue is hit or miss here. I never know what I'm going to read. The series has lost it's direction. There have been some good issues, but the most recent one falls flat. Batman (Dick) and Gordon spend the issue talking over a dead body, but neither one speaks in character. The story feels drug out to last longer than it needs to.
 

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Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
 
You mean Nguyen.
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
The Batbooks have lost all that energy and excitement they had going for them this summer. BATMAN & ROBIN has been missing for too long. STREETS OF GOTHAM and GOTHAM SIRENS are both uneven and struggling to maintain quality.

RED ROBIN lost me after two issues, much to dark and overly dramatic for my liking. BATGIRL is a good antidote to that; I'm still feeling it out.

I am enjoying BATMAN. Sorry Cobie. Daniels is mixing in intriguing characters and developing a real story here- better than I expected. And I like bringing in the more street villains of Bats' past. The Penguin doesn't often seem a threat to Batman, but here his conniving is really holding it's own against the Falcone family. I will grant that Batman/Dick hasn't been written any different than Batman/Bruce.
 

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Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
 
So let's see, for the rundown of Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne, we've got Caveman Batman, Witch Hunter Batman, Pirate Batman, Cowboy Batman, P.I. Batman, and Batman Batman.

And the difference between regular Batman and Batman Batman is that Batman Batman has 20% more Batmanitude.
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
Batman & Robin come back strong, with a run of three issues that sure didn't feel like three months. Throw in Batwoman, a visit with the Knight and Squire, and Damian getting saved by Alfred and Dick, and you've got a great read. It's not as heavy as some of Morrison's work with Bruce, but since those first issues with Quitely, this title has been more about the excitement of being Batman.

Gotham Sirens also had an issue out last week. It was another chance for Dini to bring out the Riddler. And here, he does so with a creepy side plot as the Sirens each give us their POV of a DB being dropped in their laps. It's a good mix, intriguing to be sure. One of the better issues in the short run of this title.
 

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Posted by Jerry on :
 
Detective Comics was given a GLAAD (Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation) media award this evening. Congrats to everyone involved at DC, and kudos to the Alliance for recognizing a mainstream comic.
 

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Posted by rickshaw1 on :
 
I'm only reading the B & R and I have to say that if it doesn't pick up fast, I'm dropping it. Way to many bad coincidences, too many bad moves on Dick's part, absolutely revile the Damian Wayne character. Voted to kill Jason Todd, and this one is worse.

BoP can't get here soon enough, and a return of Nightwing can't as well.
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
All you Damian Wayne haters read the latest issue of B&R?
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Not yet. Does he die? Does he betray Dick?

Hopefully one of the two
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
You're part right. Now guess which part?
 

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Posted by rouge on :
 
Morrison comes back to Batman for #700. That's 3 Morrison Bat-Books in June. Ow, my wallet.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Well after months of kind of hemming and hawing over Batman & Robin, I have to say that I'm enjoying the last two stories MUCH more. The former, which was the Batwoman / Knight & Squire crossover was a great little story that teamed the various heroes up in a cool way that reminded me of when superhero team-ups actually felt funky and fun. It also resolved the Batman skull mystery once and for all.

The latest storyarc, which I've now read the first part, is the single best Morrison Batman issue since Batman: RIP. It had a lot going for it that I loved:

- first and foremost, Dick was acting like "Dick" again. He just felt right to me for the first time in a long while.

- Damien's subplot is moving along. Whether he dies (as I prefer) or something of some substance happens to him, I'll be glad the character is moved forward from his current status. I'm dying for Tim to resume his role as Robin though.

- The Black Glove subplot returns--which I'm fascinated by--and with an interesting character called Grave Digger.

- The actual storyline itself, with Dick and Alfred searching Wayne Manor and the cave via clues Bruce may have placed centuries before was really well done! It restored the sense of mystery to the title and had some very Da Vinci Code type moments. I would love it if Morrison could go more into depth but I'll take what we're given.

Of course, the logical question is whether the 1700's Thomas Wayne was indeed the Thomas Wayne from Batman RIP.
 

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Posted by Blacula on :
 
I thought the lastest issue (#10) was FAB too! We get far too little detective-work/mystery-solving in comics these days so this one, with all it's funky clues in paintings and hidden doors behind fireplaces, was super-cool!

I'm on record as being a big fan of Morrison's Batman run, though somewhat less-so of his Batman and Robin work, but now that I think about it it's only been the Red Hood three-parter that I haven't really liked - and that was probably mainly due to Philip Tan's murky, scratchy art (so at odds with the rest of the artists on this title).

So I think Batman and Roin has been a pretty decent run after all. And certainly a very creative one. Every month, even though I may like other comics more, this one stands out from the pack as having something unique and original about it. Mainly due to its construction/story-telling I think. And that's a very welcome trait for someone who's as sick of the same-old, same-old of comics as I am.

So thank-you Grant Morrison. As someone who used to be a non-fan of yours - long may you remain in the industry!
 

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Posted by Reboot on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Blacula:

quote:

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Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
- The actual storyline itself, with Dick and Alfred searching Wayne Manor and the cave via clues Bruce may have placed centuries before was really well done! It restored the sense of mystery to the title and had some very Da Vinci Code type moments. I would love it if Morrison could go more into depth but I'll take what we're given.

---

I thought the lastest issue (#10) was FAB too! We get far too little detective-work/mystery-solving in comics these days so this one, with all it's funky clues in paintings and hidden doors behind fireplaces, was super-cool!

---

..wait, how does this work? Wayne Manor's been levelled AT LEAST once (during Cataclysm/No Man's Land), and I'm fairly sure the Batcave itself has seen some serious damage over the years too...
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
It doesn't work
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Caught up on the latest Batwoman story in Detective Comics, which kind of serves as a co-Batwoman story, co-Batman story (set in the past with the real Batman). While it doesn't have Williams artwork (which is so damn good its notable when its absent), it's still a pretty solid story so far. It's definitely not the best Batwoman story so far, but I don't mind Rucka giving us a strait-up crime story with Batwoman.

I have to say by this point I've found the Question back-up rather pointless. It's basically gotten to the point where I'm sometimes forgetting to keep reading. The interaction with the Huntress has been okay but there's no real meat there. Rucka just doesn't seem able to capture my interest in the limited format. He needs to work on that.
 

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Posted by Blacula on :
 
^^^ The Question back-up has been completely pointless. I don't think I've ever read more of a non-story in comics. It's only saving grace has been the pretty artwork by Hamner.

Re: the secret tunnels in Wayne Manor. Yep - at first I was like 'Hold on. How is this remotely possible with all the times the place has been destroyed and rebuilt?' but then I put on my time-travel hat and thought 'OK well - Bruce got thrown into the past AFTER all those events happened therefore whatever clues he left in the past shouldn't take effect in the present until after the point he was Omega-Beamed. Therefore they weren't there to be destroyed during the earthquake but are there now for Dick to find'.

I'm not sure if my rationale makes sense to anyone but me but it's some comic book logic I can get behind (unlike a certain new development about all life in the universe beginning on Earth... grumble).
 

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Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Blacula:
I'm not sure if my rationale makes sense to anyone but me but it's some comic book logic I can get behind

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Blacula:

Re: the secret tunnels in Wayne Manor. Yep - at first I was like 'Hold on. How is this remotely possible with all the times the place has been destroyed and rebuilt?' but then I put on my time-travel hat and thought 'OK well - Bruce got thrown into the past AFTER all those events happened therefore whatever clues he left in the past shouldn't take effect in the present until after the point he was Omega-Beamed. Therefore they weren't there to be destroyed during the earthquake but are there now for Dick to find'.

I'm not sure if my rationale makes sense to anyone but me but it's some comic book logic I can get behind (unlike a certain new development about all life in the universe beginning on Earth... grumble).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Reboot:
..wait, how does this work? Wayne Manor's been levelled AT LEAST once (during Cataclysm/No Man's Land), and I'm fairly sure the Batcave itself has seen some serious damage over the years too...

---

I guess Morrison's been following your posts Reboot. Dick asks the same question in the latest issue. The answer is that this wing suffered less damage in the Earthquake. According to Alfred, if the whole mansion was leveled they'd still be rebuilding.
 

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Posted by Blacula on :
 
#11 is another excellent entry in this string of excellent Morrison-Batman stories and if the final part of the tale in next month's issue is as good as the previous two have been then it will easily be my favourite since the book became Batman & Robin.

Just loved the whole premise of Robin and Gravedigger fighting those villains in the graveyard in the rain while Dick searched through the spooky secret tunnels and blackmagic ritual chambers underneath Wayne Manor and Alfred hovered in the awesome new flying Batmobile watching everything going on below him. Morrison really knows how to use the parameters of the comic book medium to serve his stories. Nothing's ever stale and boring in his books!

I'm intrigued by the mystery of the Gravedigger too. Not sure who he really is but I think I'll be disappointed if he turns out to be Bruce Wayne and I will absolutely scream if he turns out to be The Joker (as a lot of people have suggested). Can't we have one good Batman story without that over-exposed, over-valued and just plain OVER character having to pop up in every single one of them?!? The books aren't called Batman and the Joker for cripes sake!
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
With the return to his RIP storylines, I'm enjoying the latest Batman & Robin story much more than the previous. He's got me curious again, even though I feel the clues he's provided here almost solve the entire mystery without spelling it out.

Still hate Damien; still don't see Dick as Batman as being anything different or special.

RE: Rucka leaving DC. Though it sucks that he won't be writing Batwoman, I say good for Rucka. They've obviously strung him along long enough regarding the Batwoman comic. At least Williams will be heading up the title in his absence.

I am glad Batman is returning to Detective again. I feel it's absolutely 'his book', something he earned in 1940. That being said, I'm glad Batwoman is getting her own title as the feature has more than earned it; and I'm glad if Detective high-profiled her more (though honestly, as a Bat-related character she'll always live and die by the success and marketing of Bruce Wayne, just like the rest).
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
Batman V Robin. Revelations abound, a build up to the return of Bruce wayne. (Really, it's right there on the cover, in case you hadn't heard.) And we're going to see dick face off against the Joker.

The story seemed to wrap up rather quickly, but this arc was fun. Talia really is becoming her father's daughter isn't she? And nice to see some mention of the Bludhaven massacre.
 

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Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
 
Morrison had said that readers should think of the Joker as a behind-the-scenes presence throughout B&R, so his arrival comes as no surprise, but

Click Here For A SpoilerI was hoping it wouldn't be Oberon Sexton. I was starting to like the guy.

Otherwise, this book continues to be one of my faves, and if DC decided to swipe from the current Captain America and keep Dick as Batman, I wouldn't mind at all.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
I'm behind on Batman & Robin, but I did read the latest (or maybe not?) of Detective Comics and Batman.

Rucka's run on Detective is coming to a close and its still as great as ever, even with J.H. Williams taking a break and Jock providing art. I thought the 'Cutter' story was definitely out there, but not in a bad way. I'm also glad to see Bette Kane becoming a more prominent part of Kate's mythos.

Meanwhile, after really finding Tony Daniel's Batman really week for most of the run so far, the latest copycat killer story has really raised my interest. I feel like Daniel has upped his game and I like it. Daniel is also doing something Morrison is finally doing, which is showing 'Dick as Batman but still being Dick'. Too bad it took this long for them both to do it. And Guilliem March coming over from Gotham Sirens works great for me, as his artwork is terrific. He draws more than just attractive characters--his action sequences and elaborate murder scenes were really awesome to behold.

I'm still so unsure of what is going to happen to Dick once Bruce is Batman again. First, if Dick dies, I'll certainly make sure all posters who supported this status quo are hounded on Legoin World ( ). However, I feel like his going back to being Nightwing is going to feel very weird.

Also, is anyone still collecting any of other Bat-titles: Red Robin, Streets of Gotham, Gotham Sirens or Batgirl? I dropped them all very early on and never looked back. Only Lardy's words on Batgirl made me give a second thought but I just wasn't feeling it enough.
 

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Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
 
I buy all of them.
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
Same here, SK.

B&R and 'Tec were so great, I think it raised my expectations a little for all of the Batbooks. Having stuck it out on all of them, i can appreciate them all more now then when I first read them.

Batgirl is a good read each month. Gotham Sirens isn't quite Secret Six or BOP, but also a nice read each month. I'm really excited with Fabian N taking over Red robin (even if I don't like the name.) Streets of Gotham is maybe the weakest one for me. I don't read Azreal at all.
 

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Posted by Blacula on :
 
Well I was as disappointed as I said I'd be with the Oberon Sexton reveal. Ugh! Talk about dragging a formerly great arc right down into the gutter.

That wasn't my only problem with #12 though. I felt it lacked the polish and energy that the previous two parts had. Not to mention lacking a conclusion. Is the next issue a new arc or a continuation of this one?

My other and possibly main issue was Dick telling Slade he'd be coming for him another time. WHAT!?! Slade Wilson destroyed an entire city filled with Dick's friends and colleagues. Catching him and putting him in jail should be Dick's NUMBER #1 priority! It's ridiculous to me that he would let him just walk around after having done something like that. Was great to see him punching him out though.
 

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Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Blacula:
That wasn't my only problem with #12 though. I felt it lacked the polish and energy that the previous two parts had. Not to mention lacking a conclusion. Is the next issue a new arc or a continuation of this one?

My other and possibly main issue was Dick telling Slade he'd be coming for him another time. WHAT!?! Slade Wilson destroyed an entire city filled with Dick's friends and colleagues. Catching him and putting him in jail should be Dick's NUMBER #1 priority! It's ridiculous to me that he would let him just walk around after having done something like that. Was great to see him punching him out though.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
Is "the Black Glove is the Devil" theory basically the one everyone accepts now? Opinions? I know so many people take it as that but I like to think there is more to the mystery still.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
Yeah, I'm also enjoying Batman fans lose their minds over it. Have you ever visited the DCMB's Batman forum? It's like Thunder Dome over there when someone mentions the Black Glove.

I'm actually not in a huge rush to find out either, but I find it so interesting that I can't help but speculate. It's probably the comic book mystery that has intrigued me the most in the last 10 years. And so much is based on random tidbits Grant throws out, or clues that very likely aren't clues at all but something a random character said. Love it.

---

I'd pretty much given up on all message boards bar this one (and I haven't been around here much either), so I haven't had the pleasure of discussing comics on the DCMB recently.

Speculation is good. Speculation should be encouraged. Speculation means that you're thinking about the comics you're reading. That Morrison's work always gets me to thinking (even when I think the story in question doesn't succeed on its own terms) is why he's currently my favorite writer.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Yeah, I can sometimes be tough on Grant in some reviews, but he's a favorite of mine. He *always* makes me think. I spent countless hours thinking about Seven Soldiers when I should have been working.

As for the DCMB's--I just watch posters heads explode, but I don't actually feed the animals...
 

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Posted by Officer Taylor on :
 
A caveat: Isn't "Black Glove" the name of the organization and "Doctor Hurt" the name of the lead villain? If I'm wrong about this, then I'm hopelessly confused!
 

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Posted by rouge on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Officer Taylor:
A caveat: Isn't "Black Glove" the name of the organization and "Doctor Hurt" the name of the lead villain? If I'm wrong about this, then I'm hopelessly confused!

---

Technically yes, although, really, Hurt IS the Black Glove as the other members are superfluous (and as we've seen, quite expendable).
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Yeah, its not 100% clear yet. The internet may tell you otherwise but it's never been spelled out (on purpose, I'd wager).

The Black Glove is certainly the organization, but Dr. Hurt may be the Black Glove, or may work for a "Black Glove" person.

The Satan theory includes Dr. Hurt = Black Glove, in that he is a glove for the hand that is Satan (I think). It could also work that Dr. Hurt = Thomas Wayne (the descendent, not Bruce's Dad) acting as a glove for the demon Barbatos, who is possessing him. (OM, correct me if I'm wrong). It's all still vague.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Tony Daniel's second half to the Blackspell/Riddler storyline was a bit of a step backwards I think in regards to his storytelling. It remains a bit disjointed and clunky and the end felt more like a non-end to me. Still, the premise was decent.

Meanwhile, David Hine has the unfortunate job of doing the first Batman in Detective story with Rucka and Batwoman's exit. I actually thought it was a really good story, and one of the better offbeat, dark detective stories for Dick as Batman so far without the Morrison inherit weirdness. It follows up on the fascinating Jeremiah Arkham given the recent changes undergone by his character and is shaping up to be a solid read.

The Question back-up however has become basically something I skim over and rush to put down.
 

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Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
 
Guys, I've been re-reading that Batman: The Cult book.

I'm pretty sure this is where Morrison got the name "Miagani" from.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Read "Return of Bruce Wayne" #2 and I'm really enjoying it so far. It's just so Morrison-weird that I can't help but gobble it up.

The entire "Bruce / Puritan" concept is so off-beat that it works so well. It also amuses me to no end that someone might buy this thinking its a Batman-related 'Event Comic' and end up thinking "WTF?".

#2 answered a bunch of questions from Morrison's Batman run regarding Wayne's ancestors. So this is more than just a 'Bruce returning to the future' story but some very important information regarding Batman: RIP.

And its also just awesome to see Bruce Wayne in action again.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
I also got around to part 2 of David Hine's story in Detective about Jeremiah Arkham. I thought it was a really good, solid story!

This is one of the better Dick-as-Batman stories so far, IMO.

Meanwhile, the Question back-up was a waste. I skipped to the end just to see if anything noteworthy happened--even then, it was hard to understand. Renee might be scarred now? I bet someone forgets in a few months.

I'm also noticing the preview for Neal Adam's Batman: Odyssey mini. I'm a fan of Adam's work in a big way but what I saw leaves me uncertain if I'll buy. It's a little unfair because its only pencils and inks (final inked version?) so it looks overly scratchy and that might not be the final product. Seeing Batman with a gun didn't really win me over.
 

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Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
 
I've already decided to let the Adams mini go for now and get the inevitable trade if it turns out to be good.

Return of Bruce Wayne #2 was much better than #1 (which was OK but not great) and renews my faith that Morrison is going somewhere with this story.
 

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Posted by Blacula on :
 
Finally read The Return of Brace Wayne #2 and LOVED IT!!!!!

Grant Morrison's epic, long-form Batman tale that he began what feels like years ago now is easily my favourite Batman story ever (and despite my not really liking the character in the past, I have read A LOT - my brother bought every Batman/Detective comic from about 1986 to about 1995) and this issue propels it into another dimension - almost literally!

Batman as a Puritan Wich-Hunter/Detective? What an awesome concept! I'd love to see future flashbacks to his life as Mordecai Wayne. And the Time-Masters involvement (which I was initially very sceptical of) just took an extremely interesting turn with the revelation that...


Click Here For A SpoilerDarkseid has turned Bruce into a living time-bomb that will destroy the world when he returns to the 21st Century! (And that page where Bruce revealed himself to be the data-keeper thing was one of the biggest jaw-droppers I've read in a comic this year!)


Makes his whole quest to return to the present that much more interesting.

And what can I say about the art?!? STUNNING! Frazier Irving blew me away on Seven Soldiers: Klarion but if it were even possible, his art looks even better here. What a phenomenal talent.

I feel sorry for all those people who a) aren't understanding or b) aren't enjoying this book.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Frazier Irving definitely is a talent to watch. He has such a creepy, moody feel to his artwork and there are a few things he does that highlight that. Foremost is the way he draws people's eyes and how they look at other people in the middle of a conversation. That's some pretty creepy stuff! He seems to really get Grant too and his artwork provides Grant the atmospheric backdrop needed for the weird & bizarre.

I'd kill for a Bruce Wayne: Puritan Detective back-up in Detective Comics following this! Moreso than the Question or Manhunter or Two-Face or whatever Bat-title back-ups there have been.
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
Batman #700 - a cross time caper involving 4 (5?) different Batmen and a number of Robins. And what a pretty book to look at. Grant again does a great job of telling stories encapsulating all the different eras/tones/moods/ of Batman.

Each era is drawn by a different artist, and they all manage to make it their own. The pin up series in the back was nice, and normally I prefer more story. But there were a couple that just blew me away. Such a great piece of collaborative work.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
I agree on Batman #700: what a great "cross-time caper" (to borrow your phrase Ceej) with some incredible artwork. Particularly Tony Daniel, who I wish would do more artwork than writing.

Also love seeing Catwoman in that costume (which I disliked when I was a kid).

Like most of us huge longtime Batman fans, I knew it was only a matter of time that Grant got around to Professor Carter Nichols and I'm glad he did. He also wrote it in such a way that I felt like it left it open for further Carter Nichols stories (he should be 60 and was 80 so that's at least 20 years of time travel he was elsewhere, not to mention other easy outs).

I also have to say that Damien-as-Batman scenes from the would-be future only made Damien even more annoying to me. Did they confirm when they're killing him yet?

And Ceej, good call on the art gallery. I agree, it was fantastic and moreso than the usual art galleries in milestone issues. Dustin Nguyen is incredibly creative in his pin-ups which were gorgeous. My favorite was probably the gorgeous Tim Sale one.
 

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Posted by Chief Taylor on :
 
I read issue 12 with the conclusion of the "Batman vs. Robin" arc and the reveal of Sexton. I'd say that's easily B&R's best arc and probably the first to really click with me. I found Sexton's reveal surprising and enjoyed the apparent growth in Damien's character as he stood up to Talia. (I'm definitely less ready for him to be killed than Cobie is! )

Question: does Talia's reveal of another Damien in the works mean that Damien wasn't conceived the old-fashioned way between Bruce and Talia?
 

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Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
 
Looks like the BATMAN AND ROBIN title is sticking around, but with a new creative team.

DETECTIVE COMICS is getting a new writer , who will be familiar to some of you.

Tony Daniel is continuing on as writer/artist of BATMAN.

For those who missed it, the announcement of the new Bat-book from David Finch
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
A lot of this sounds really great to me. Tomasi has really won me over in recent years on GLC and elsewhere and Snyder is fantastic on American Vampire as Lardy and I (and now Dev--yay) have said several times in the Vertigo thread.

Finch's artwork I find really appealing so I'll give it a chance.

The only one I'm not thrilled with is Tony Daniel. I really love his art (I mean really) but I've found his writing on Batman thus far to be rather dissapointing.

Also, should Damien remain Robin (and it's lookin like he will) I'm going to keep complaining and feverishly asking for his death in perpetuity.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
I also saw Paul Cornell is doing a Knight and Squire mini which sounds awesome!
 

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Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
A lot of this sounds really great to me.

---

I'm intrigued by the different approaches the books are going to take.
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
If they can maintain the differences, I'm all for it.
 

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Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
 
Today at SDCC, DC announced another Bat-Book, BATMAN INC., by Grant Morrison and Yanick Paquette. Looks to be a team-up styled book.

No real hints about what the future holds for Dick Grayson yet.
 

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Posted by Chief Taylor on :
 
I'd just like to say that halfway into it, Morrison's Return of Bruce Wayne mini has been a very welcome surprise. I was on the fence about getting it before it came out, but I'm glad I did so far. Morrison's Batman stories have run the gamut for me as far as whether I've enjoyed them or not and to what degree, but Return has really delivered in terms of telling terrific standalones winthin a larger framework of Bruce Wayne being lost in time.

This is SO much more entertaining than the non-story that was Captain America Reborn! If Morrison can nail the landing here and with the recently-improving Batman & Robin, this may indeed turn out to all have been worthwhile.

I'm optimistic!
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
I'm also enjoying the hell out of the Return of Bruce Wayne. I read #3 tonight, the pirate issue and it was one of the best stories I've read all year! Grant is able to combine a larger, incredibly grand scale story of Batman through time with a small scale awesome pirate adventure with Blackbeard.

The best part, and most fun, is watching how Bruce's life through time has affected the entire history of Gotham and helped shape the Bat as a huge symbol for both the Wayne family and Gotham as a city. The idea of the ancient cave people from Anthro's time mixing with the Native people and living in the caves (the "Bat-people") and worshiping Bruce's costume is extraordinary; the fact that it's the Bat-cave is just beyond cool. The Puritan story brought the Wayne family into the mix in an incredibly cool way. When all is said and done, I'll probably be rereading for clues here and in Grant's other stories, as well as checking online for theories and things I might have missed, just like I did with RIP.

Grant has created this mythos of Gotham where the specter of Batman has hung over the city and the Wayne family since the dawn of time, and reading Bruce's journey through time is like having a layer pulled back every issue to see how it got that way.
 

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Posted by Jerry on :
 
Screwed again. After a multiple month delay and a $5 price tag for the final issue, "Batman: Widening Gyre" ended in a horrible fashion.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
I caught up on Morrison's other Batman stories in B&R and Batman, the latter of which has an awesome 'hidden chapter' of RIP connecting RIP to Final Crisis. I'm totally digging Morrison's Batman stories again now that he's getting back to the RIP / Dr. Hurt / Black Glove mystery.

Loved seeing Bruce & Alfred working together and being so frank with one another about how close things came in RIP.

Love going over every minor detail and throway piece of dialogue for the exact nature of the Black Glove.

I'm hoping we get some real resolution of this larger storyline within the next few months as I'm getting totally engrossed in it again.
 

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Posted by Power Boy on :
 
I'm loving Batman and Robin. especially Damien (blanking on the name?)

and frazier irving gets a big happy welcome from me as the artist.

and i don't even like Batman, i got like two issues from the 80s when i was a kid and that's it!

I started reading this cause of Quitely's art.

the latest issue was good Click Here For A Spoilerjoker: 'you sound just like him' and then our new lil badass robin cracks him over the head with a crowbar ...and the joker is crying for help, bwahahaha

Love the new Robin. and Dick as Batman.
 

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Posted by Blacula on :
 
I'm a bit behind in my Batman reading but just had to echo CK's praise of The Return of Bruce Wayne #3. What an awesome issue!

And I *loved* seeing the Black Pirate in there too. I always loved that Jerry Ordway image of him in the old Who's Who book.

Other than the ho-hum Oberon Sexton = Joker revelation, Grant Morrison has not put a foot wrong in his crafting of this epic, long-form story so far, and I am constantly blown away that Batman, a character that I formerly had very little time for (especially under Grant Morrison in JLA), is now one of my favourite books on the stands - and is a strong contender for my favourite book of the last few years.

Those who just jumped on board with Batman & Robin (i.e. you, Power Boy ) should really do themselves a favour and go out and buy all the trades of Morrison's work on this story until now - especially the mind-blowingly awesome Club of Heroes, Black Glove and R.I.P arcs. This whole thing has been one continuous storyline since his very first issue and I cannot wait to one day do a re-read of the whole thing and look for all the little clues and hints about what was coming up along the way.

Like CK, I also especially love the feeling of... I was going to call it "world-building" and compare it with Geoff Johns' work on the Green Lantern franchise (and all the new characters and concepts and corps he's added to that title over the last few years)... but that's probably not the best analogy since there haven't been that many more new chracters or concepts added here by Morrison.

A better term might be "myth-building" since it's more the character of Batman himself (and what he represents and stands for and comes from) that is being crafted and developed here. And that is no mean feat for a character as storied and showcased as this one is.

This is stellar stuff. Truly.
 

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Posted by Blacula on :
 
And then on the other side of the spectrum you have... this -

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/07/29/worst-of-the-worst-batman-the-widening-gyre-6/3#comments

I really liked Kevin Smith's Green Arrow run but don't think I've bothered with anything else he's done and am certainly glad I avoided this one now. Looks like his comic book writing has become as bad as his movie writing/making.

They can't all be Grant Morrison I guess.
 

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Posted by Arachne on :
 
Pretty horrible, isn't it? What the heck was he thinking? Glad I'm not a Batman fan or I'd be... well, pissed.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
For the love of all that is holy. Kevin Smith should be banned from comics.
 

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Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
 
In all honesty, I was wondering what Silver meant by Deedee.

Smith should be banned from Batman.
 

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Posted by Power Boy on :
 
'dee dee'. now that's just tacky.
 

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Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Arachne:
Pretty horrible, isn't it? What the heck was he thinking? Glad I'm not a Batman fan or I'd be... well, pissed.

---

I am a Batman fan, but I somehow knew to stay away from this one until the verdict came in.
 

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Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
 
Um, I meant Smith shouldn't be banned from comics. Just Batman.
 

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Posted by Blacula on :
 
OK, so the November solicits are out and there are a massive 19 Bat-family titles on sale that month!

I may be loving all things Bruce Wayne right now but methinks DC might be pushing the limits as to how many Bat-books the market can support. I predict a big implosion about a year to two down the track.

One that will probably be one of the first to go is Streets of Gotham, which brings me to the point of this post - is anyone here reading it?

I recently read all of Dini's run on Detective (of which SoG is a kind of sequel I think) and I really enjoyed it. A lot of clever and fun done-in-one tales that used a good selection of the usual suspect villains along with a bunch of little-seen old ones (the Terrible Trio, Tweedledum & Tweedledee) and a few interesting new ones too.

And the art in the last half by Nguyen was amazing too.

So I was wondering if SoG is as good as Detective was and whether I should hunt down some back-issues of it. Anyone here reading it?
 

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Posted by Chief Taylor on :
 
I picked up the first 3 or 4 issues of SoG, then dropped it. It wasn't anything horrid but just didn't grab my interest. Wasn't crazy about the focus on a new Black Mask, and the usage of Mr. Zsasz and Firefly wasn't exactly doing it for me.

I never picked up Dini's 'Tec issues, but it seems that he dropped the done-in-one style that had made that run successful. I'd heard good buzz about that, but saw no evidence in SoG.

I was also looking forward to the Kate Spencer Manhunter backup. That let me down, too. Uprooting the character to Gotham felt forced and robbed Kate of a lot of what made her book work.

For the record, I wasn't impressed by Gotham City Sirens either when I tried it out for the same number of issues.

For my money, the consistently best Bat-book (other than the great Batwoman run) has been Batgirl. It's nothing groundbreaking, but they simply know how to produce an entertaining comic book with interesting characters. That's harder to find these days than you'd think!
 

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Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Blacula:
So I was wondering if SoG is as good as Detective was and whether I should hunt down some back-issues of it. Anyone here reading it?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Blacula:
I know what you mean about having to put your foot down on buying certain Bat-titles CK. Does anyone out there buy all of them? That must cost a fortune. I am at the moment only buying Batman & Robin and The Return of Bruce Wayne (and Batman while Grant Morrison guests on it) but come November the only definite on my pull-list will be Batman Inc. (though I am not a fan of the new costume).

---

One of the things Grant said at the SDCC panel was that he liked having a variety of Bat-Books you can pick and choose from, disparaging the days when you had to "Buy them all". So I don't think your meant to have to get "Everything" (though DC would like you to, I'm sure), but at the same time, the teams are working to ensure co-ordination and communication.
 

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Posted by Blacula on :
 
^ I agree. I certainly don't feel I'm missing out on anything by just getting the few that I do. It is good that there seems to be a Bat-title for everyone out there - almost literally everyone come November.

It seems obvious that Dick Grayson is staying on in the role for a while too so I wonder how that will shake out - having two different Batmen as the leads in their respective books?
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
For the longest time I collected them all. When Robin, Nightwing and Birds of Prey were all cancelled, I decided that it was time I gave the Bat-Books the same treatment I give the X-books. The only titles I feel any really loyalty to are Detective and Batman, and only because our collection (my father's and mine) extends back into the 1950's.

For what its worth (not much I wager), I decided that as long as Tim Drake is 'Red Robin', I will not buy his book; if he is 'Robin', I will. If Dick is 'Nightwing', I will certainly try out his title; if he remains Batman, then there is a good chance I may not.
 

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Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Blacula:
It seems obvious that Dick Grayson is staying on in the role for a while too so I wonder how that will shake out - having two different Batmen as the leads in their respective books?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
I really feel I'm part of something special

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Oh, you're special, all right...
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
Streets of Gotham was suppose to be more of a POV book from the average citizen of Gotham on the adventures of Batman. it didn't last long, and it's more a general vigilatnes of gotham style book. In the year or so since it's launch, at least 3 issues have been written by someone else. There have been some good bits - the opening arc with Firefly, the Huntress/Man-bat story. It's not a bad book, but not as tied to the Bruce Wayne drama as BATMAN and B&R. If you like the idea of an urban vigilante, but don't want to mess around in Bruce's psyche, than this is the book for you. Tho' I do think Dini's Hush story will close out the series.

[ August 19, 2010, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: CJ Taylor ]
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
As for the flood of Bat books, even Bruce can't support more than 2 titles on his own. All these mini series should be folded into the main books, help keep them fresh. These one shots- make an 80 page giant out of them. DC's getting over $30 a month on the monthlies I buy, no way I'm wasting money on one shots designed to test a characters Q rating.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
I am definately going to check out Detective when Snyder and Jock start on the title. Outside of that...I don't read any Batman stuff.
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Blacula:
It seems obvious that Dick Grayson is staying on in the role for a while too so I wonder how that will shake out - having two different Batmen as the leads in their respective books?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
Funny how the interim Batman storyarc with Morrison and Tony Daniel--the "Missing Storyline"--is a 2-parter in which the two issues give me completely separate feelings.

In the first issue, in which is more based on the ramifications of Batman: RIP, was something I was highly interested in and loved.

The second issue, in which if more heavily focused on the events of Final Crisis, I found myself a bit uninterested and bored. I'm still so blase about that story that I can't really muster much interest, even though Batman's story there is so tied into Bruce's current journey.

---

Now I had the opposite reaction. I thought #701 was enjoyable enough but really a waste of an issue as it didn't show anything that wasn't either inferred or explicitly stated before. I didn't find it all that necessary.

But #702 blew my socks off. I really informs the whole narrative of RIP as well as RoBW, and indeed probably the whole Morrison run. It all starts to click: The Hyper-Fauna, the Hole in Things, Thomas Wayne, time changing around him. It's like it stepped back and revealed a larger tapestry and lets you see where all the threads are running to. It's got me really excited for the conclusion of RoBW (which I was only lukewarm to before) and the next few issues of B&R.

I assume that Batman Inc. is going to be about Bruce building a global army to combat Hurt and the Black Glove, with some kind of crazy end game. If so, count me in for the ride.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Detective Comics
I was just praising David Hine in the Spirit thread, and I’ve been a huge fan of the Bulletproof Coffin since it’s debut, and now I have to offer up even more praise to the masterful writer for his latest story in Detective. One again, he seems to be providing the very best Dick-as-Batman stories since the status quo was changed, and this latest story, in which Batman has to deal with “The Imposter Wars” is a genius idea that I’m shocked no one has thought of before. Hine crafts an excellent Batman story that continues to move at a rapid fire pace as an excellent premise is executed. He also had Dick make a minor mistake in the beginning—not taking the threat seriously—that causes Dick to regret it later, which is a subtle example of writing Dick as Batman, differentiating him from Bruce.

Scott McDaniel, who has no doubt by now proved himself to be one of the great Batman artists of the modern era (and Nightwing, Robin and other Bat-related characters), does a great job reminding me why I love his Gotham City artwork.

The Return of Bruce Wayne
I am still loving this every step of the way, and Morrison is just knocking it out of the park more and more with each issue. I love, love, love, the idea of Bruce handing his descendents the classic pearls that Martha Wayne had when she was murdered (little bit of Batman trivia: it was Frank Miller who added that bit to the mythos in Year One).

Does anyone know of any really good annotations websites for Morrison’s Batman, specifically the Return of Bruce Wayne and RIP? I’d love to see what clues and bits I’ve missed over time, especially the ones I may forget when it takes me 2 months to read the next installment.
 

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Posted by Blacula on :
 
Well there are these little-known facts...

Damien Wayne is a Golden-Age character -

http://www.comics.org/issue/11713/cover/4/?style=default

Grant Morrison is just rehashing these old stories -

http://www.comics.org/issue/14655/cover/4/?style=default

http://www.comics.org/issue/15576/cover/4/?style=default

This is the direction Morrison is taking the book post-The Return of Bruce Wayne -

http://www.comics.org/issue/16904/cover/4/?style=default

And Ace is just so super-cool -

http://www.comics.org/issue/12628/cover/4/?style=default


 

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Posted by Blacula on :
 
Some quick Batman reviews here -

Return of Bruce Wayne #5 - I don't think I can say enough about how great this series has been. I know some posters on other sites really seem to be hating this story (and Morrison's whole run on the book) and I just find that unfathomable.

The level of creativity and excitement and mystery and surprises that this book/run has had is just on another level IMO. Though there have been lots of great stories and storylines in Batman's loooooooonnng history, this certainly has to rank up there as the most consistently entertaining and impressive of them all. Right from his very first issue - Morrison has been telling one long mystery-story here and that even now, 40 or 50 or whatever chapters later, I *still* don't really know what's exactly going on and have no idea how everything's all going to shake out, and am LOVING the fact that I don't know that info, is testament to just how successful Morrison has been at telling a gripping and suspenseful story here IMO. So, so good!

Batman Confidential - speaking of good... it takes a LOT to get me to pick up a random issue of a title I don't currently buy (mainly since it means the completist in me now has to go and buy all 48 of the issues before this one!) but all the good word of mouth I heard about this issue had me curious as to whether it was good as they said it was. And it was! This writer, James Patrick, is one to watch. Anyone who can tell a very simple tale about Batman doing something we've all seen him do a thousand times before - solve a murder and save a little girl in a night - and yet keep you on the edge of your seat throughout while being intellectually entertained by the minutiae of Batman's investigation, is a talent with a future. VERY solid done-in-one.

Knight and Squire - pretty good. As an English Passport-holder who lived there for nearly a decade I chuckled at the *many* English in-jokes by way of the heroes and villains' names and costumes and the slang they used (and totally laughed out loud at the Beatles joke) so that was all fun. The art was OK too (not great, not terrible) though I think the artist really let down the script in a certain important event toward the middle of the book. Took me a long time to work out what was going on there. Surprisingly, Knight and Squire themselves didn't seem to do much this issue so I hope to see more from them in the coming months.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
All I can say about Return of Bruce Wayne #5 was so awesome that as soon as #6 comes out, I may just have to reread Grant's entire Batman run, highlighting the Club of Heroes arc, RIP, Final Crisis and Batman & Robin just to take in the awesomeness of Grant's tapestry all at once.
 

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Posted by SharkLad on :
 
I just started reading B & R with issue #13 so I'm scratching my head with a couple of things in that title as well as Return of Bruce Wayne... I just reread Final Crisis and picked up Batman & Son... curious about Dr. Hurt and the "return" of Thomas Wayne... Morrison's work bears several rereads, making it seem so much heartier than some of the other books I've been sampling (and dropping), e.g., Green Arrow...

[ October 23, 2010, 06:25 AM: Message edited by: SharkLad ]
 

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Posted by Blacula on :
 
^ I think reading Morrison's latest Batman stories would be impossible to completely enjoy without having read pretty much his entire run leading up to them. As I said in one of my earlier posts - he has been writing one continuous storyline right from his very first issue, so it wasn't really The Return of Bruce Wayne #5 that came out last week - it was Morrison's Epic Batman Storyline #42 (or whatever). All of these later issues are informed by the clues and characters and events from the previous ones.

If you're going to try to get into his Batman now Shark Lad I would totally recommend seeking out back-issues or Trades in order to better grasp how excellent (and multi-layered) this story has been.
 

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Posted by SharkLad on :
 
I'm going to stick with Batman & Robin and Red Robin once all the Return of Bruce Wayne dust settles... I'll try and pick up some of Morrison's earlier Batman trades ...

Speaking of trades, can anyone recommend any from Robin's original run?
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
I remember loving the first several issues of Robin's solo series when it spun out of Knightfall. It remained good for a number of years before it drifted a bit.
 

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Posted by Dave Hackett on :
 
"The Return" was a little underwhelming, but Batman Inc. #1 was full of awesome Bat-Goodness. I don't even like Selina/Bruce that much, but Grant really wrote a sexy and fun dynamic there. The shot at manga tropes was great, even greater with the cliffhanger ending.
 

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Posted by Power LLASH on :
 
was a bit confused by this Batman and Robin. the switching of artists didn't help.

but Damien is soo cool. he's badnass.
 

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Posted by Blacula on :
 
Apparently Professor Pyg, Flamingo, and the whole Black Glove/Club of Villains showed up in the latest episode of The Brave and The Bold cartoon -

http://gothamspoilers.tumblr.com/

That is so amazingly cool.

Morrison has really added (and revived) so much to the Batman mythos since his run began.
 

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Posted by Korbal on :
 
Just an idle question: after the events of R.I.P. does the Joker know that Batman is Bruce Wayne? Pretty sure he saw Batman sans cowl...
 

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Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
 
I think he already knows. And he doesn't care.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Morrison's interpretation is that he's known for years (which is based on past stories, notably Death in the Family).
 

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Posted by doublechinner on :
 
I've spent the past few weeks obsessively reading and re-reading as much of Morrison's Bat-Opus as I have (with the exception of Final Crisis) and it just blows me AWAY! What an amazing piece of work. And I write this as someone whose initial reaction to most of Batman:R.I.P. as a big Scooby Doo "Whu?!" Like the B:B&TB cartoon, Morrison has managed to tell a very non-traditional Batman story (Batman takes on evil God, suffers time-travel banishment, etc.) and make it a quintessential Batman story completely true to the character, and even illuminating of the character's depths. ROBW #6 had more interesting stuff in each panel than entire series sometimes have. Like "Lost," Morrison goes back over events we THOUGHT we understood and layers more mysteries and meaning on them. Like Metron saying the 5th World was his ultimate experiment. Wow! It makes sense, but I hadn't come across it before. And it makes Batman the personification of a new era of human possibilities, having survived and overcome the punishment of the evil gods. Wow! Sorry, can't stop saying "Wow!".
 

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Posted by Blacula on :
 
Caught up on a whole bunch of Bat-books over the past couple of days. Some quick reviews -

* Return of Bruce Wayne #6 :

Didn't love it. I've been critical of those who've been calling Morrison's Batman-opus "confusing", because it's all seemed pretty straight-forward to me - but this one went completely over my head. I like a comic that makes me think, but not one that makes me think "I need to go to 3 different annotations websites just to work out what the hell happened here".

It just didn't seem to be as well written as the earlier issues either. The focus was too scatter-shot and it really felt like it was just a first or second draft of a script that needed to be worked on a few more times. I'm thinking deadline pressures had an impact here. The weakest art of the series to date didn't help matters. Still, it read better a second time once I knew what was going on. 3/5

* Batman & Robin #16 :

Was better. The awesome art from all 3 fantatastic artists certainly helped. The opening call-back to the great Milligan story Dark Knight, Dark City (which Morrison has referenced a number of times during this run) was great. As was the fight scene with the 99 Fiends.

The only let-down for me with this issue was that it was that overhyped waste of space the Joker who took down Dr Hurt (although I have to confess - I did laugh at the banana peel bit). Maybe I've just blocked his whole involvement from my memory, but what's his beef with Hurt anyway? Why did Morrison give the huge satisfaction of taking down the main villain of the past, what - 40 issues of stories(?) to that idiot instead of Bruce? Total let-down for me. Dr Hurt is 10 thousand million times more interesting of a character to me than the Joker is. So great to see Batman dispatch that tool in one punch and one panel later on though. 4/5

* Batman - The Return :

Not very good. First of all - the art. David Finch has become a superstar artist how exactly? It must have been something he did at Marvel because his DC stuff hasn't been that great. He can draw pretty-ish pictures of men and women in that sub-Jim Lee kind of way but as a storyteller his art is atrocious IMO. Awful, awful panel construction and he neglects to put important things that the reader actually needs to see onto the page.

It was very interesting comparing Morrison's script at the back with what we saw on the page. Check out page 22, panel 5 - the script says "Batman has medical taped the thick needle around her [Spidra's] throat." Does anyone get that from actually looking at the artwork? Or was anyone else looking at that panel and seeing Batman say "Her throat was crushed but now she can breathe, see? I saved her life." like me and thinking "Huh? I didn't see him do anything like that in this murky, muddily coloured artwork."

Not to mention his bats looked like flying wolves. Terrible artwork. And I haven't even mentioned what I think of his new design for Bruce's costume yet either. (Not much!) So definitely not buying that new book Finch's both writing and drawing now.

Morrison's story didn't seem up to snuff with his other stuff either, though the Heretic seems like he could be an interesting new villain. And I did like the final panel (even if I didn't quite understand it - was Bruce listening in on the conversation between the baddies? More Finch failure here.). 2/5

* Detective Comics #871 :

Good little mystery. I prefer Jock's covers to his interiors so starting any whole issue drawn by him is always a bit of a chore for me, but after a few pages I'm into the groove. I liked the call-back to Dick's police days and training here and the villain's motif (that they've got their hands on some of the weapons/tools of various Bat-villains) seems like a pretty cool one. The Commissioner Gordon back-up seemed a little light and vague but I'm willing to go with it. Pretty good all round. 3.5/5

* Batwoman #0 :

I really enjoyed this one. Art - fantastic! It's JH Williams III so what would you expect? His writing is what surprised me though. I am very wary of artists becoming writers but some (like the writer/artist of the next book on my list) really have the skills to do both. I'm glad to see JHW is one of them.

The story was short (half a comic!) but I really got into it and loved the way it gave us little nuggets of information about all the important events and characters in Kate Kane's world without feeling too exposition heavy or neglecting the action. And I'm super-excited that JHW is running with what Rucka started and including Bette Kane (Flamebird) in the new book! Love my B-list 70s Titans! 4/5

* Batman/Catwoman - Follow the Money #1 :

Howard Chaykin is an industry legend who has already proven many times that he can both write and draw but somehow I think I've managed to miss most of his output during his career. I'm glad to rectify that here at last because I loooooovved this one-shot. His art is WOW! This is a distinctive artist. So detailed and expressive and such beautiful, realistic men and women. Why aren't there more artists out there imitating this guy instead of all those pathetic Jim Lee clones? The colouring here is top-notch too. Absolutely perfect. Jesus Aburto, please come to the Legion and save us from these colourists who can't even get simple hair-colours right!

I loved the story as well. Nothing earth-shattering. Just a simple tale about Batman and Catwoman trying to track down the crooks who embezzled the Wayne Foundation's pension fund while the classic and (classically hilarious - loved him!) Bat-villain The Cavalier kept getting in their way. So good to see a writer remember that there are other great villains in the Bat-verse that can be used to weave wonderful stories around rather than the same 2 or 3 tired and over-used old ones. (I know you know who I'm talking about.) Would love to see the Cavalier make a come-back and get used some more in the regular titles. Fun book. 4/5

Haven't read Batman Incorporated #1 yet but that's next on my to-read list.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
I finally got Return of Bruce Wayne, which let me catch up on some Batman comics I've been saving so I could read in order. All in all, I thought RoBW had a solid finish and provided a great end to an excellent story. I see now that the miniseries really seemed to serve the purpose of providing the origin of Barbatos (which in turn, provides the origin of Dr. Hurt--or at least I think ).

The follow-up B&R #16 also had a great ending to the Morrison Batman Saga up until now. I'm actually very pleased with the Dr. Hurt / Barbatos revelation and storyline and look forward to one day rereading and finding little tidbits I can't remember anymore (since this thing has been going for a bunch of years by now!).

I'm interested in what the Bruce Wayne revelation at the end of the story will bring, though the pessimistic side of me is holding my breath hoping this doesn't become something lame or worse, on the obvious continuity chopping block down the road.

I also read the Batman: The Return one-shot which was a complete and utter waste of time and money, which I heartily hope no one else other than Blacula and I wasted their money on.

Onwards to Batman, Inc. with both Bruce & Dick as Batman. I'm not entirely sold on the idea, just like I still find Damien incredibly annoying. As a premise, it seems a bit 'meh' to me, but great creators could sway me (and the opposite could happen too of course).
 

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Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
 
The only Batman books I'm buying currently are Batman Inc., Batwoman, and Batman: Orphans because I like Carlo Barberi's artwork.
 

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Posted by Dave Hackett on :
 
Batman Inc #1 is vastly superior to "The Return". I think you guys (Cobie and Blacula) will really like it.
 

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Posted by Blacula on :
 
^ I did get around to reading Batman, Inc. #1, thanks Dave, and I did really enjoy it too.

Loved the villain (and was especially tickled to read about his interesting history as a one-shot Bat-villain from the 60s who was given new life in Japan's Bat-Manga stories).

The story was fun and light too and if this title follows this trend of globe-trotting adventuring with different guest-heroes showing up to help Bruce out each issue then I definitely think this could become my new favourite Bat-title.

The only down-side - I hate Bruce's costume without the pants. He just looks like he's wearing long-johns to me now. *Really* hoping he goes back to the classic look soon.

Great ending though!
 

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Posted by Fat Cramer on :
 
Well, I got Batman: The Return after not buying any Bat books since R.I.P. and agree it wasn't worth the cash. All those script pages, I could care less about. Some interest in the set-up for the rest of the Bat family, but we would have found out about all that in due course.

Batman Inc. was a lot better. It's a good premise, providing a change of scenery and the introduction of other cultures' portrayal of superheroes. Bats/Bruce Wayne at the top of his game, using both identities to their fullest potential. Catwoman supplied a lighter tone to the story, which I preferred. The giant robot rat was a great scene - made even better by not showing the whole event.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
I plan to get around to reading all the different Bat-titles in the next few weeks and posting my thoughts. I started with Detective Comics since I had just read Scott Snyder's excellent American Vampyre from Vertigo and decided to keep going with another Snyder story.

My initial reaction was this is really quite good. I've been hoping for more detective-oriented Batman stories featuring Dick, and Scott Snyder seems poised to give them to us. It comes across as a really great start to a mystery that will force Dick to use those detective skills which we know he has. (Rather than the already boring showcasing of Dick as an acrobat and circus performer compared to Bruce…yes, we get it). Snyder is an excellent writer and the story paced very well.

Jock’s artwork also seems to work really well with Snyder, and provides a dark, suspense-filled setting for the story. I like Jock’s work a lot, though I’m not one of those super-enamored fans of his that sigh lovingly whenever his name is mentioned (I stole that line from Cleome regarding her feelings towards Joss Whedon). He is a natural fit for Batman though and I like it.

Things I like include mentioning of Dick’s police background; the Dick / Commissioner Gordon interaction; Snyder adding a level of complication to the Mad Hatter technology and how its changed over the years. All in all, Detective Comics looks to be in solid hands.

I also enjoyed the Commissioner Gordon back-up quite a lot because (A) it has artwork by Francesco Francavalli, one of my favorite new artists and (B) Gordon is in my top 5 best supporting characters of all time and I like seeing him have adventures with Batman & friends.
 

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Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
 
I picked up both issues of Batman: Orphans. I haven't fully read the second issue. I have this to say:

I bought the issues solely because of Carlo Barberi's artwork. While the artwork is what I hoped it'd be, I still have to say this. I'm not exactly crazy about the writing, or the amount of dead kids. Eddie Berganza is not one of my favorite people.
 

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Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
 
I picked up last month's issue of Detective Comics and Batman: The Dark Knight. Like with Batman, Inc., I wanted to give this new Batman series a chance. I haven't fully read it yet, but the art is not what I was expecting.

I picked up Detective Comics solely for the Commissioner Gordon back-up because, looking at the new issue, I was shocked that they were focusing on Gordon's son, and realized to my horror that I had completely forgotten about him.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Today at lunch I read Batman #704, which kicks off the post-RoBW era of Batman, headed by Tony Daniel who is doing the writing and full art. I've always admired creators who can do just about everything but I also sometimes worry the creator is stretched too thin and isn't able to provide the full quality they'd wish--it's a tough balance to make.

I thought Daniel's first issue of the new era was actually a very solid one, and an improvement from his previous Batman issues where he was doing everything. He seems to be hitting his pace writing-wise, where his dialogue and pacing is starting to match up with his excellent art. It's still not quite there yet though, and a lot of it feels choppy, but it's nowhere near as noticable as it was.

Art wise, I think Tony Daniel is excellent. However, I do feel the art was a little too scratchy. Having loved his Teen Titans artwork, which was polished and fine-tuned to the max, I can't help but feel Daniel was rushed here, and it shows.

All in all, I'd give the comic a solid effort, though both art & writing aren't the best I've seen. Despite this, of all the Batman titles I've read so far post-RoBW, this one has had the purest sense of fun & excitement that appeals to the pre-teen in me. There is a lot of Dick smashing into bad guys and bickering between Dick & Damien is a little juvenile, but in a fun way.

Batman seems to be taking a bit more sophmoric approach that isn't quite as sophisticated as it's counterparts, but is more appealing to the kid its readers.

Would I recommend it? For someone dying for decent Batman stories, yes; for someone really looking for something GREAT, then no.
 

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Posted by Ambush Bug on :
 
Finally read Detective Comics 871. I picked htis up on the strength of Scott Snyders writing over in American Vampire. The fact that Jock is the artist was just icing on the cake for me. I am glad to say that he is living up to my expectations here.

This issue is the set up for the 12 issue arc. But it is a good story on its own, with a lot of really good character beats along the way.

Dick and The Commish talking about the case, the fact that Dick went to Prom with Barbara, and Dick's police background show that Scott knows that these characters have known each other a long time.

Then there is the back and forth with Batman and The Commish. Loved the fact that jim is not used to Batman not vanishing when he turns his back for a second.

Let's see...the clues: Birds (Pengy), the kid at the school (Killer Croc), Crazy mother (Mad Hatter) and the guy at the end (Poison Ivy. So far, whoever is behind this is going to a lot of trouble to use other "villians" M.O.

The backup was very nice as well. Great art by Francesco Francavilla. Never seen his stuff before (that I can think of), but hope to see a lot more of it in the future. Nice bringing James back into a story.

This whole thing is a great example of good writing so far. I hope that the full story lives up to the potential...and given what Scott has done with AV, I'm sure it will.
 

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Posted by SharkLad on :
 
I read “Batman: The Dark Knight” # 1 by David Finch and Scott Williams. Interestingly, the cover is missing the “Batman Incorporated” logo most of the Bat-books have been stamped with since Bruce Wayne’s return. A beautifully painted cover otherwise, but, like the book itself, remarkably derivative (how many times have we seen Batman on the roof of a church?) and ultimately underwhelming.

The story fits like a well-worn sweater, and I kept being reminded of either “Hush” or “Batman: The Animated Series.” There’s a mystery involving a childhood friend (“Hush”) of Bruce’s, Dawn Golden who has gone missing. Killer Croc is somehow involved (“Hush”); he and Bruce fight. We also get a straight-out-of-a-police-pulp-novel scene with Commissioner Gordon and Harvey Bullock. I could practically hear the voice actors from “Batman: TAS” doing the dialogue. The same could be said for the scene between Bruce and Alfred, except I don’t think Bruce was ever such an ass to Alfred in the cartoon. Alfred also seems to have gotten over his excitement with Bruce’s return. His snarkiness (“I’m so glad that we had this chance to talk…”) sounds like it should be coming from the butler John Gielgud played in the movie “Arthur,” not someone who said, “I couldn’t beg, borrow or steal a finer way to live my life” in “Batman: The Return” just last month. We get a glimpse of a classic Batman villain on the final page, one that just had a pretty significant role in another Bat-book. And, someone breaks into the Batmobile … “Batman Returns?”

The art is beautiful. I don’t really know David Finch’s work, but his drawings remind me of Jim Lee (“Hush”) only less stylized. The opening pages with Bruce and Dawn as children are especially nice. There’s also a great two-page spread of the Batcave. The colors match the art very nicely as well as the story. “The Dark Knight” is, appropriately, a dark book.

Overall, no new ground is broken, beyond the lack of connection to “Batman: Inc.” which is surprising because I didn’t think that would happen so soon, much less in the first issue of one of the new titles. Despite my “underwhelming” comment, I did enjoy the book if only because the story did feel so comfortable and the art was so appealing. That probably doesn’t seem like a glowing recommendation but if you do pick it up, I’d be curious to know if it had the same effect.

[ January 05, 2011, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: SharkLad ]
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Interesting. I also read Batman: Dark Knight last night and my thoughts mirror Sharky's almost precisely!

The story, from sequences to settings to dialogue, are all things we've seen before a multitude of times; so much so that you can tell immediately David Finch is not an experienced writer. All of the things Sharky mentions are dead-on. (And the mystery of Bruce's childhood friend...c'mon, how many people from Bruce's childhood didn't end up as a Batman casefile?).

Meanwhile, the art is absolutely spectacular. So much so that at a few points I sat back and just took several seconds to take in all the majesty. Artwise, I'd be willing to say it's the best looking Batman comic to come out in a long time.

So, while this isn't exactly the best thing on the market it's still actually pretty enjoyable. Comfortable is a good way to put it, and the art is really good. I plan to keep getting the series, whether it is derivative or not.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
I also dove into Batman Incorporated #1 and #2 last night. Quick side note, I forgot to add #1 to my pull list and my CBS were sold out so I went to another CBS and got charged a freaking $10 price for it! Oh well.

Overall, I enjoyed the launch of the new series and the premise Morrison is putting forth. I think the tenure of this current status quo is dubious but that won’t stop me from enjoying it while it lasts. Having Batman on a more international scale setting up other crime-fighters around the world is something I find appealing, and the adventures he is going to have to do so sound like a lot of fun.

First off, I love Morrison writing Bruce again and I already find myself enjoying Batman more than I have while Morrison was writing Dick. I also really liked how Selina played a role here and for the first time in a long time, I enjoyed the Bruce / Selina romance as written by Grant. After all these years, they have a level of comfort and recognition that they know & love each other that I find very refreshing.

The story itself was really enjoyable, and Mr. Unknown and Lord Death Man made two really great characters to kick things off. I hope we see them both sometime in the future and I hope other stories can mirror the sheer level of awesomeness as this one. Mr. Unknown now has more in common with Dick and Knight than Bruce, but that makes him all the more appealing to work with Bruce. Lord Death Man is also incredibly frightening and his shtick is unique enough (for Batman) that makes him stick out.

Yannick Paquette provides some really gorgeous artwork here. I’ve liked him thus far but haven’t been going ape-shit like many others on the internet for his artwork. These two issues IMO are his best effort thus far and it shows. The sequence with the giant squid in the apartment below was so off the wall that it made me remember why I like Morrison so much; and the credit goes to Paquette for showcasing that.

Michael Lathcombe lends his hand on inks over Paquette and that makes me wonder if he’s the reason the art stands out so well. They certainly make a great team.

One complaint I have is there was a bit of needless gore that rather than enhancing the story distracted from it. Not a huge complaint but worth mentioning and something to keep an eye on.

On to El Guacho, my favorite of the Club of Heroes!
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Blacula:
* Batwoman #0 :

I really enjoyed this one. Art - fantastic! It's JH Williams III so what would you expect? His writing is what surprised me though. I am very wary of artists becoming writers but some (like the writer/artist of the next book on my list) really have the skills to do both. I'm glad to see JHW is one of them.

The story was short (half a comic!) but I really got into it and loved the way it gave us little nuggets of information about all the important events and characters in Kate Kane's world without feeling too exposition heavy or neglecting the action. And I'm super-excited that JHW is running with what Rucka started and including Bette Kane (Flamebird) in the new book! Love my B-list 70s Titans! 4/5

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Finally got around to reading Batwoman #0 which was very good, as I expected. It through me off when I realized this was a story about Bruce analyzing Batwoman (which I immediately was prepared to dislike) and even further so when the narrative structure had two stories going concurrently (which is a structure that sometimes annoys me). Yet, I ended up liking the issue quite a bit, and both of those things ended up being pluses rather than minuses.

J.H. Williams is making the move from series artist to series writer, which as Blacula points out, is often-times a very scary transition for the reader. (His artwork BTW was fall down on your face good in this issue). Yet he seems to really know this character inside-out, as well as Rucka, and the issue read very well. Like Blacula says, it wasn’t exposition heavy yet it provided a basic quick outline & summary of Batwoman’s current status, supporting cast and history.

Amy Reeder Hadley is an artist whose work I absolutely loved on Madame Xanadu, so I’m looking forward to seeing more from her. I really loved how she did the lush settings there, particularly non-urban stuff, so I’m a bit anxious (and nervous) to see how she handles an urban vigilante. Ultimately, I think she’s talented enough to make me enjoy he work in that genre. She has a very dynamic style that is unique to her, and she draws attractive people in a very different way (almost like a cross between manga and cartoony).

I’m as excited as ever about Batwoman! A big part of me wishes DC would really hunker down to a smaller amount of Bat-title (you know, get rid of all the ones I don’t collect and at least one of the Batman titles ) but I do hope Batwoman has a long run ahead of us.
 

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Posted by SharkLad on :
 
I read the "Batman: R.I.P." TPB. Let me start off by saying that I have never been a regular reader of Batman. Of DC's 'big three,' he has always had the least appeal for me. While I've picked up the occasional Bat mini-series, it's only recently that I've been reading any of his books on a regular basis. That being said, Grant Morrison's writing in this book makes me wish I'd become a fan sooner. The story is completely gripping, and the artwork is a fantastic match. Morrison's depiction of the Joker is worth the price of admission alone. I won't go into the story too much, since it's probably been reviewed on the boards already (and honestly, I don't think I could do it justice anyway), but it presents such a compelling take at just what must have been necessary for Bruce Wayne to evolve into Batman that, again, I want to kick myself for having been swayed so more easier over the years by Superman's big red "S" and Wonder Woman's golden lasso. "Batman: R.I.P." should easily surpass "The Dark Knight Returns" when discussing the definitive Batman story.
 

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Posted by SharkLad on :
 
I’ve been reading “Red Robin” since issue #13. As mentioned in previous reviews, I’m relatively new to the Bat-family of books. I never read any of Tim Drake’s solo “Robin” series, and my only real familiarity with him comes from the first few issues of Geoff Johns’ “Teen Titans” run. I have quickly become a big fan. I don’t know how he was previously characterized, but I like how Tim is portrayed in this book as extremely smart and resourceful -- not in a way that is obnoxious or overbearing but as a result of being raised, in essence, by the world’s greatest detective. The earlier issues, which I’ve read in TPB, had him taking down Ra’s Al Ghul, which, if not completely logical given who Ra’s is, was done in a way to show that Tim is afraid of very little. Now that he’s back in Gotham, for the most part, there have been some plot points I’ve missed not knowing all the backstory, e.g., Tim’s relationships with Lynx and Anarky, his anti-gang initiatives, his adoption by Bruce, etc., but I hope to rectify this by picking up some of the “Robin” trades. I love Marcus To’s art. My only quibble is that while Tim looks like a fairly typical teenager, albeit one who wears a lot of black suits, as Red Robin he looks older and bulkier. There was a nice scene between him and Bruce a couple of issues back that really illustrated this -- they were standing next to each in costume and looked like equals until Tim took off his hood and suddenly he looked like a little kid.

In the most recent two issues (18 & 19), Tim has been in Russia dealing with Red Star and a Russian businessman with connections to the Society and the “Unternet” (?) – again, missing the backstory. Anyway, issue 19 was a lighter change of pace with Tim and Lucius Fox’s daughter, Tam, getting sucked into the Unternet with Anarky. Tim had on a modified costume that I could see him switching to, especially since he has said he missed the feeling of bullets whizzing through his hair. There’s a team up with the Teen Titans coming up. To me, Tim seems to have outgrown his former teammates, so we'll see how they interact.

Overall, "Red Robin" is a smartly written book with great artwork. Like Dick Grayson before him, it seems completely believable that Tim Drake "graduated" from his role of Robin. Whether I stick with the other Bat-books or not, I'll be following this one for a while.

As a side note, I’m torn with Damian Wayne as Robin. While it would seem too much of a stretch to have Tim go back to the role, I worry that Damian isn’t going to be written consistently, and he’ll end up like Jason Todd. In the few issues of “Batman and Robin” I’ve read by Grant Morrison, he’s a Robin like no other, and he plays off of Dick really nicely. In this month’s “Batgirl” and the recent Halloween issue of “Superman/Batman,” he’s played a little too much for laughs – though they were genuinely funny, especially “S/B”. Anyway, I hope Damian remains true to Morrison’s vision and we’re not voting on whether or not to kill him anytime soon.
 

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Posted by Chief Lardy on :
 
Review: Batman and Robin #18

You know what? When it was announced that Tomasi and Gleason's run on this book was being delayed, my gut told me that the story ordered to fill-in in the meantime would be a waste of money. After a promising part one last issue, I thought maybe I was wrong. Well, part two made me feel like my first instinct was correct.

Last issue, writer Paul Cornell set up a pretty interesting modus operandi for his new villain the Absence. She would leave clues in which the solution was to figure out what was missing. Then, on that last page we had the reveal that she has a huge hole in the middle of her head to kind of underline her gimmick. It's a weird visual that might seem appropriate for Batman's bizarre villain roster, but at the same time, it feels a little too over the top.

This issue, we get her backstory, and I wasn't impressed at all. Seems she survived a point blank shot to the head because she has a rare condition in which her brain tissue is distributed on the sides of her skull instead of in the middle. I have no idea whether this is real, but if it is, I suspect she would be severely cognitively challenged at best. But not only does this enable her to survive a coincedental wound unimpaired, but somehow she also survived the massive blood loss shared with no medical attention! Really?

Sorry, but that was a bit too much. I think she would've been just fine as a villain with the motif but without the cockamamie hole-in-the-head gimmick. It just took me completely out of the story. I also suspect it precludes her ever appearing again as a Batman villain (unless Cornell writes her into his future comics). Basically, this shapes up as an utter waste of my money with another issue left in the storyline.

Also not digging the violence implied with a bag full of severed heads and Vicki Vale as the potential next victim. Ugh.

Scott McDaniel shares the pencilling duties with another guy I've never heard of. McDaniel does pretty well here with what must have been a tight deadline, but it's not up to his best standards such as we've seen on Nightwing. The other guy is named Christopher Jones, and his pages are unremarkable.

Good grief! Bring on Tomasi and Gleason already!

Lardy's Rating for Batman and Robin #18: one-half Donut (out of five)!
 

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Posted by SharkLad on :
 
This storyline was a big ol' bummer for me too... B&R 18 spent way too many pages on the Absence's origin, and it was a lame one at that... looking forward to Tomasi's run...

I propose eating that half donut and leaving a big 0 a la the hole in the Absence's head...
 

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Posted by Chief Lardy on :
 
^Yeah, given the choice of eating that half donut and buying B&R 18, definitely eat the half donut!
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by SharkLad:
I’ve been reading “Red Robin” since issue #13. As mentioned in previous reviews, I’m relatively new to the Bat-family of books. I never read any of Tim Drake’s solo “Robin” series, and my only real familiarity with him comes from the first few issues of Geoff Johns’ “Teen Titans” run. I have quickly become a big fan. I don’t know how he was previously characterized, but I like how Tim is portrayed in this book as extremely smart and resourceful -- not in a way that is obnoxious or overbearing but as a result of being raised, in essence, by the world’s greatest detective. The earlier issues, which I’ve read in TPB, had him taking down Ra’s Al Ghul, which, if not completely logical given who Ra’s is, was done in a way to show that Tim is afraid of very little. Now that he’s back in Gotham, for the most part, there have been some plot points I’ve missed not knowing all the backstory, e.g., Tim’s relationships with Lynx and Anarky, his anti-gang initiatives, his adoption by Bruce, etc., but I hope to rectify this by picking up some of the “Robin” trades. I love Marcus To’s art. My only quibble is that while Tim looks like a fairly typical teenager, albeit one who wears a lot of black suits, as Red Robin he looks older and bulkier. There was a nice scene between him and Bruce a couple of issues back that really illustrated this -- they were standing next to each in costume and looked like equals until Tim took off his hood and suddenly he looked like a little kid.

In the most recent two issues (18 & 19), Tim has been in Russia dealing with Red Star and a Russian businessman with connections to the Society and the “Unternet” (?) – again, missing the backstory. Anyway, issue 19 was a lighter change of pace with Tim and Lucius Fox’s daughter, Tam, getting sucked into the Unternet with Anarky. Tim had on a modified costume that I could see him switching to, especially since he has said he missed the feeling of bullets whizzing through his hair. There’s a team up with the Teen Titans coming up. To me, Tim seems to have outgrown his former teammates, so we'll see how they interact.

Overall, "Red Robin" is a smartly written book with great artwork. Like Dick Grayson before him, it seems completely believable that Tim Drake "graduated" from his role of Robin. Whether I stick with the other Bat-books or not, I'll be following this one for a while.

As a side note, I’m torn with Damian Wayne as Robin. While it would seem too much of a stretch to have Tim go back to the role, I worry that Damian isn’t going to be written consistently, and he’ll end up like Jason Todd. In the few issues of “Batman and Robin” I’ve read by Grant Morrison, he’s a Robin like no other, and he plays off of Dick really nicely. In this month’s “Batgirl” and the recent Halloween issue of “Superman/Batman,” he’s played a little too much for laughs – though they were genuinely funny, especially “S/B”. Anyway, I hope Damian remains true to Morrison’s vision and we’re not voting on whether or not to kill him anytime soon.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Hackett:
I thought the Absence had potential as an off-the-wall crazy addition to the Batman Rogue's gallery, but I thought the arc failed to deliver. The third issue was way, way too much talking heads and philosophy. I'm all for some cerebral examination of the whole Batman Inc stuff, but Cornell didn't execute well to the medium's strength and turned what could have been a great arc into an interesting failure.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Chief Lardy:
Haven't read the third part yet (and am not looking forward to it), but I thought the first part was fine. The second part just totally jumped the shark for me with her origin/explanation. I guess you thought it was okay 'til the third part?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
I'll have to say, your review has me missing Tim Drake more than ever, Sharky. I'm curious now about the series...maybe I will pick it up and hunt down back-issues. I guess that's an 'in-store' decision.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sarcasm Kid:
Yeah, he's had a son. He was born in Year One, and he was in the Long Halloween, Dark Victory, and was a central supporting character in the graphic novel Night Cries. Hell, I forgot all about him until I saw the back-up.

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quote:

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Originally posted by SharkLad:

quote:

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Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
I'll have to say, your review has me missing Tim Drake more than ever, Sharky. I'm curious now about the series...maybe I will pick it up and hunt down back-issues. I guess that's an 'in-store' decision.

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After reading the "Robin: Search for a Hero" TPB, I'm an even bigger fan of Tim's, and I plan on picking up more of the old series trades when I get the chance...

Cobie, if you do decide to pick up some back issues of RR, I'd start where I did with #13... Tim setting up shop again in Gotham and picking up the pieces from his old series...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dev Em:
Another comic reader/blogger had a similiar idea with the old Batman series...just a different episode.

http://bullyscomics.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2011-02-07T22%3A23%3A00-05%3A00

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mystery Lad:

Unfortunately, I waited till the last couple of months to start the series. Wasn't there a cover coming up that had a Batman-like guy riding a buffalo? Or did that story already see publication?

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That's still to come. They've moved some of the covers around a bit and the storyline seems to be expanding a little in scope (Morrison took three issues to do the El Gaucho/Batwoman stuff instead of the originally planned two).
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
My current ranking of the 5 main Bat-titles (the periphery ones not counting if they don't star Bats himself):

(5) Batman by Tony Daniel - I'm having a hard time getting into this AT ALL. I love Daniel's art but his writing style seems all over the map. I want to like it...but just can't.

(4) Batman & Robin - Even with the new creative team who I loved on GLC, I'm really not enjoying this one at all either. Could it be that I just can't truly enjoy Dick & Damien, and its a personal thing? Or is it that so far it all seems so run of the mill?

(3) Dark Knight - The artwork is incredible while the story thus far is 'okay'. But the moodiness and atmosphere add a bit more to it than Bats and Bats/Robs. I feel the Penguin and Killer Croc are being used better here than the villains in Batman. I'd give this one a solid "B".

(2) Batman, Inc. - Morrison seems to have recaptured his enthusiasm here and thus far is really impressing me. I'm enjoying it quite a bit, especially this latest story with El Gaucho about the original Batwoman.

(1) Detective Comics - yup, 'Tec is my personal favorite of the bunch, hands down being the best in terms of all-around quality. Scott Snyder is nailing a very crime / noir feel with real detective work, while Francesco Francavilla, one of my favorites, is delivering on all levels. Even the coloring is fantastic. And the current Son of Gordon storyline is has me totally hooked.

So all in all, you have two really good ones, two pretty 'meh' ones and then Dark Knight, which kind of hovers in the middle.
 

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Posted by Dave Hackett on :
 
Neither post-Morrison team has really delivered with B&R so far for me either (Correll was slightly better than Tomasi), and I really dig Dick and Damien. Six months ago I would have dropped this when you told me Winnck is doing the next arc, but his Power Girl has made me re-evaluate him. We'll see which Judd shows up for this.
 

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Posted by Lard Lad on :
 
Yeah, I was under the impression that Tomasi & Gleason was the permanent replacement for Morrison & company, but it seems we're getting rotating creative teams doin 3-issue arcs? I haven't seen any official comment by DC about all of this, but I'm disappointed.

I agree that two-thirds in (haven't read part three yet), Tomasi has disappointed, even as Gleason's visuals have been pretty good. I still would've stayed beyond that arc to see if Tomasi would improve. When the Winnick arc was announced, I thought maybe it was a fill-in to give Gleason more lead time as he helped finish up Brightest Day. But again, there's been no official comment that I'm aware of.

I'm jumping off with the Winnick arc. Though I like what he's done on JL:GL, he has a very poor track record with Batman. B&R shouldn't be a rotating creative showcase but one of the more crucial titles as it's been since it debuted.

Cobie is correct that 'Tec and Inc. have both been terrific, however. (DK and Batman, I haven't even tried.) It's too bad that Snyder will be leaving 'Tec after his long arc is complete around the end of the summer. There are hints that he may continue on Batman in some form or another but nothing solid.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Didn't know Snyder was only on for a year. That's dissapointing but at least we've still got a ways to go and I have high hopes for the next team. Snyder has what looks like a really cool creator-owned horror comic on the horizon, BTW.

I also didn't realize Winnick was coming on B&R. Ugh...I'll prepare myself.
 

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Posted by Lard Lad on :
 
Wow! I just read Inc. #4--that was one terrific issue! I'd read that Grant brought the original Batwoman back into continuity in this story and, the reviews were pretty positive. I loved the sweet Silver Agey-feel to the flashbacks, especially the panel with Bats and Kathy in the Batmobile with Bats having lipstick kisses all over his face--priceless!

I'm not all that familiar with the original Batwoman, but Grant really made me want to learn more about her! Nice touch that she taught Bruce that tango we saw last issue and what the circumstance was.

I like the spin he put on her history and motivations and am curious to see how he handles her death. I'm about a month and a half behind reading in my comics stack but knowing the subsequent issues have already come out makes me excited to know I'll get to them soon. (This issue really made me hope she turns out not to be dead though. I know...unlikely. )

The artist Chris Burnham this issue was terrific! I'd almost swear we had two different ones the way he changed his style from flashback to present.He reminded me of Quitely's style at times, but I didn't feel like he was aping anyone's style too much. I'd love to see more of Burnham's stuff!

Lardy's Rating for Batman Inc. #4: Four Donuts (out of five)!
 

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Posted by rickshaw1 on :
 
I'd give Tomasie a little time. He makes a moderate start, but he quickly gets a handle on things and starts to crank it up. He brought Nightwing back from nearly a half decade of dreck and made it great before they cancelled it for so he could take on the Batman role.

gotta say though that I'm waiting for Grayson to go back to Nightwing.
 

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Posted by Lard Lad on :
 
Problem is, we don't know if Tomasi's coming back, Rick! Like I said, I was willing to ride it out for the reason you state. But I'm not even sure if those three issues comprise the run's sum total. Certainly, the impression going in was that Tomasi/Gleason was the new regular team, but now--?

I guess we'll see soon what follows the Winnick arc....
 

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Posted by Dave Hackett on :
 
Inc #6 was all kinds of fun. You know the books cooking when even a downtime issue between arcs runs at breakneck speed and throws everything but the kitchen sink at you.

We spend the issue looking at how the Batman Inc. Team is growing with more members added and a check-in on others (including the MIA Cass Cain, now called Black Bat). Red Robin's given the Outsiders for his stealth team and the we get a mystery surrounding the identity of the new Wingman. We also see Leviathan stepping up their game as the war begins to heat up.

The issue was a great Catch-up/jumping on point, but did it without seeming like just a straight info dump. Lots of action, lots of intrigue. I think if there were doubts that the concept could work, this issue shows that it can.
 

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Posted by Dave Hackett on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lard Lad:


I guess we'll see soon what follows the Winnick arc....

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Hackett:

quote:

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Originally posted by Lard Lad:


I guess we'll see soon what follows the Winnick arc....

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Just put up on the DCU Blog:

"August’s BATMAN AND ROBIN #26 will be written by David Hine and illustrated by Greg Tocchini,"

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quote:

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Originally posted by Blacula:
The only part of Batman Inc. #6 I didn't like was the scene where Batman is addressing all of his closest allies - Dick, Tim, Damien, the Birds of Prey, the original Outsiders, etc. - and telling them how much they mean to him and he trusts them and all that - and then, standing right there with them all, is that crappy new Dan Didio invention that was just added to the Outsiders whom Batman probably doesn't even know from a bar of soap - Freight Train!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
Blacula, I highly recommend you read:

- Green Hornet by Matt Wagner
- Zorro by Matt Wagner
- Who is Jake Ellis?
- Atomic Robo
- Morning Glories
- Thunder Agents
- Chew
- SHIELD
- Jonah Hex
- American Vampire
- Magnus Robot Fighter
- Mice Templar
- Unwritten

These are all comics that I think are as good as Morrison's Batman, which I also agree is a very high measure to set against the rest of the industry. (I think you're already reading Fables and Walking Dead?).

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quote:

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Originally posted by SharkLad:
Bat-Wing #1 was a thing of beauty... the art is gorgeous... I can't say enough good about it... dark and atmospheric... pretty graphic at times too, but it matched the story, which was compelling in a way I haven't seen in quite a while... this book by far was the biggest surprise for me this week... if you're willing to go out on a limb for something, this would be it...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:

quote:

---

Originally posted by SharkLad:
Bat-Wing #1 was a thing of beauty... the art is gorgeous... I can't say enough good about it... dark and atmospheric... pretty graphic at times too, but it matched the story, which was compelling in a way I haven't seen in quite a while... this book by far was the biggest surprise for me this week... if you're willing to go out on a limb for something, this would be it...

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Of all the new DC's this week, Bat-Wing was the only one that my CBS sold out of completely this week. I'm almost positive this was the one the totally under-ordered, but still, it says a lot that every copy sold out.

Most reviews of it have been positive so I may try to find it elsewhere. I forgot to get Flashpoint #5 (I guess I just stopped caring?) so this gives me a reason to go back to the CBS for them both.

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At the suggestion of the legendary LMBer Shark Lad, I picked up Batwing; I’d previously given it a pass mainly because I didn’t want yet one more Bat-title and Judd Winnick as writer is a very hard sell for me. Yet, multiple reviews pointed out how surprisingly good this was, and Sharky confirmed it.

Comic books set in the Africa—specifically the brutal Democratic Republic of the Congo—used to be a tough sell for me, mainly because of the sheer brutality of it all. That all changed in the last few years because of Joshua Drysart’s incredible Unknown Soldier comic, which was one of the best and most powerful comic series ever. Batwing is a different animal completely, being a superhero Bat-related title, but I can see from issue #1 that Winnick intends to at least use some of the powerful themes of Unknown Soldier as part of this series. I welcome it now.

First thing first: Batwing is one of the best looking comics to come out this week. The art by Ben Oliver is absolutely stunning, and even the colors by Brian Reber enhance the beauty of it, by being somewhat muted and almost pastel in places. The series balances from suspensy Bat-type stuff to brutal, gritty realism. Yet you can tell the artists can (and likely will) show some exquisitely beautiful African scenery when the story calls for it.

Secondly, a nice delight was the very tight writing by Judd Winnick. I know Winnick can succeed greatly at times (he did at least several great Green Arrow and Green Lantern stories back in the day). He paces it tightly and gives a great information dump while keeping it exciting. The politics of Africa are ever-present yet he never once steps into preachy territory as he sometimes does. And he delivers a fantastically brutal ending. This is yet another fantastic DCnU #1 ending (like Static Shock, Animal Man and so many others).

Batwing himself is likable and interesting, and his secret identity as a cop is very welcome. Batman plays a very subtle quasi-mentor role here which works. And Winnick has already introduced a fantastic nemesis in Massacre. Compiled on that is the mystery of the Kingdom, the seven original African superheroes from the early days of the DCU. All of these elements enhance the ‘superhero’ elements of the story which totally differentiates the series from the heaviness of other African related stories set in Uganda, the Sudan, DoC, etc.

DC surprised me yet again with a solid opening issue!

Cobie Comparison: Did I enjoy it more than Justice League #1? Absolutely! Another great opening issue.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
With my ‘DCnU’ comics all done, I’ve turned to some others in my stack from the past few weeks I haven’t gotten to, including the final issue of the first incarnation of Batman Incorporated as the title goes on hiatus before returning in 2012. From the onset, this series has been utterly fantastic and I’ll eagerly await for its return.

This final issue had artwork by Scott Clark and Dave Beatty that purposely made it look computer-generated to fit the story; while I appreciate the artistic license in doing this, I did find it a little annoying and distracting.

Despite that, Grant Morrison delivers, as usual, as fantastic story featuring Oracle and Batman “within” a cyber world as spyware battling terrorist computer viruses. Even typing that just now makes me take a second to remember how brilliant Morrison is. With distracting art and all, the script is still really fantastic and I was able to overcome my annoyance. It was also a great done-in-one, which Morrison has peppered his Batman run with.

It’s fitting that the final Batman, Inc. story features Oracle as she’ll be sorely missed in the DCnU. I still think this is the single biggest error DC is making (and really kind of unforgivable) but I won’t harp on it here; there’s already enough threads about that. Still, nice to see a kickass Oracle story that actually had her as a cyber Batgirl.

The issue ends with a revelation about Leviathan and the return of an important character from earlier in Morrison’s Batman run. I can’t wait to see the story picked up in 2012!
 

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Posted by Future on :
 
Read the new Batman & Robin #1 today. Bear in mind that I haven't really read much Batman of late short of the first few issues of the last Batman & Robin and Batman Inc.

Speaking of Batman Inc, I'm fascinated that it and some of the new "Batmen" of the world have been getting so much play in these new books. It seems like a story element we don't need except maybe in Batwing, especially without a Batman Inc. book out right now to help clue in new readers. A cool nod to the Batworld at large, I just worry new readers won't get it.

The big new status quo of the issue really is that Bruce and Damian are now a duo, despite the fact in-story Bruce makes a (fairly cool but insignificant to the larger concept) status quo change for himself in regards to mourning his parents. I liked that Bruce, in his own way, was trying to teach Damian about his grandparents.

Damian's attitude, as it always has been for me, is a very dangerous personality trait. It can be very off-putting unless played off the right characters. I'm not sure how well it'll fit with Bruce; I don't see him as taking a lot of the grief and shaping Damian into something better like Dick was. Especially if Damian keeps pulling stunts that end up getting the perps killed.

"Nobody" is clearly the big, new(?) bad guy for this arc ... the only problem is after issue one he's not really done anything directly to or interacted with Bats and Robs yet. I'd have rather seen him make his next move this issue instead of issue two over the filler fight at the university.

It was an okay enough book. It was a book that knew what it was doing and you can tell it's building to something both in the Batman/Robin relationship as well as with the new villain. Despite that, I think this is one of the DCNu titles that I have a strong chance of forgetting to pick up again. There wasn't anything terrible about the book, it simply didn't grab me and there's a lot of other, more engaging titles out right now competing for my attention. I've always liked Batman but never been able to really get into any of his titles, weird as that sounds.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Another main Batman title went on sale this week with Batman & Robin, which is naturally very different from the other Bat-titles because of the focus on Robin (obviously). The creative team is Pete Tomasi and Patrick Gleason who did a fantastic job together on Green Lantern Corps in recent memory.

The issue had a lot of good going for it: strong pacing, great art, really cool use of a Moscow Batman as part of the Batman Inc. aspect of the mythos while that title is on hiatus and best of all, the idea of Bruce no longer dwelling on his parent's death but instead focusing on their lives--and by focusing on his son. Lots of good.

However, there is something I just can't get over--I hate Damien! He's the worst! Honestly, he's the most annoying character in comics for me. I wish, wish, wish he was erased during this relaunch. All the annoying qualities of him, between being a know-it-all to not respecting anyone--are things that caused fans to want Jason Todd to get killed. Well, annoying-ass Jason Todd took a crowbar in the teeth and it was awesome, and Damien is overdue. Okay, end rant.

When it comes down to it, Damien's presence limits my enjoyment of this comic. But even beyond that, the usually terrific Tomasi still wasn't quite as good as Tony Daniel on Detective last week, which seemed to be firing on all cylinders and had a great ending.

Cobie Comparison: did I enjoy it as much as JL #1? No. Also not as much as 'Tec #1 if we're comparing Bat-titles (psst, we are now).
 

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Posted by Fat Cramer on :
 
There were interesting aspects to both Batman & Robin and Detective but Damien was dreadfully annoying. The gory Joker stuff in Detective put me off and I probably won't continue with that series, but I have no desire whatsoever to read more of Damien's snarkery. Usually in stories the bratty spoiled kid gets his comeuppance or learns a lesson and changes, so maybe they'll revise his attitude at some point.
 

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Posted by Dave Hackett on :
 
I really think Damien is awesome, but only when either Morrison is at the helm, or in a few scattered instances (Superman/Batman and Batgirl appearances).

Yes, he's a snarky little puke, but that's because of his upbringing and he is (was?) coming around. There's a line in Morrison's first issue of Batman and Robin where Dick basically says "My God, Alfred, if we don't save this kid, who will?" and that became the driving focus of the series. And it was great.

This relaunch, not so much. And the problem is Bruce. Damien's story was very much rooted in his playing off of Dick. Aside from the obvious play on the dynamic Duo of having a light-hearted Batman and a hard as nails Robin, Dick really brought the good out in Damien. With Bruce, it's like trying to tell a joke with two straight men, and I'm worried it's not going to work out so well.
 

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Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
 
Regarding the cliffhanger for 'Tec #1:
Click Here For A SpoilerI was wondering if there was a reason Dr Arkham and Joker had simialr facial features and I still do. I also wonder if this is just a way to make the Joker look more like Heath Ledger.

I liked how Daniel made Batman a little more human during his fight with Joker in that he admits to not knowing everything about everything and having everything already planned out.
 

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Posted by Fat Cramer on :
 
Dave makes a good point re: the little puke. I read a few issues when Dick was Batman and Damien seemed like a wise-ass, but eager to learn and please. He probably had less need to lock horns with Dick than with his father.
 

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Posted by Dr. Tot Rocket on :
 
That Damien kid turned me way off. Pass.
 

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Posted by Power Boy on :
 
AWW MAN I *loved* Damien Wayne in the last iteration of Batman and Robin.

I loved his interplay with his mentor goody two shoes Dick/Batman! And how Damien didn't think he was the *real* Batman and had this extravagant notion of the legendary Batman. it was interesting though because Damien needed the type of good guy Dick is as a mentor ... to teach the little psycho path to be a good person. And Damien was trying to be better and live up to his father's larger than life legacy.

I LOVED it when Damien showed up to interrogate the Joker with a crowbar!!! haha that's a different type of Robin ... Joker. and the best part is when the Joker cowers and says 'you sound like ... HIM'

I think it would be interesting to see Damien adjust to the disappointment of Bruce Wayne compared to the Bat legend ... and what he could learn from that. And maybe he would relate to Dick a lot easier than Bruce after all.

Bummed to hear it sounds like he's not being written as well or the set up is less gripping. I'll have to flip through it at the CBS to see what it's like.
 

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Posted by Dave Hackett on :
 
Scott Snyder rocked Batman #1. Holy cow, that was a great first issue. He really gets the supporting cast, he really gets Bruce, he really gets the detective aspect and he's set up a great mystery. Colour me impressed at the debut. I'm not reading Nightwing, but I'm interested to know if this ties in closely, because Dick is certainly going to be an important part of this first arc.
 

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Posted by Lard Lad on :
 
For a bit of a pre-DCnU flashback, I read Detective Comics #881 last week. This was the final issue of Detective Vol. 1 and the conclusion of Scott Snyder's run writing Dick Grayson as Batman. This was simply a STUNNING book from both a story and art perspective.

The issue features the long-building confrontation with Click Here For A SpoilerJames Gordon, Jr.! This is a brutally disturbed individual who has absolutely no empathy for others. In a long dialogue with Barbara Gordon (who is being held captive) he explains his nature and what he has done throughout the years very explicitly up through his current campaign. In a way he's a lot more terrifying than the Joker because he just seems so much more real. No gimmicks, no costume--just a psychopath in the mood to create more psychopaths!

Cobie and I are really in to artist Francesco Francavilla, and he really delivers in his portion that details the scenes between Barbara and our bad guy, even though they're mostly talky, expository scenes. He makes them very visually arresting!

Jock is also a fine artist and captures his scenes very well. It's a more raw, scratchy style but also very effective and engaging.

I LOVED Snyder's run on Detective. Better than anyone, I think he wrote Dick as a more distinct and unique Batman than the other writers have in this era. I'll actually miss Snyder writing Dick. From what I've heard, though, he's already doing great with Bruce on the Batman relaunch.

In a way this issue was kind of a love letter and a send-off to the Barbara Gordon/Oracle era. She gets a great spotlight. And even though she suffers violently at the hands of the villain, her spirit shines through, and she fights with all she has.

If you ever have the chance to read Detective Comics #s 871 thru 881, I'd highly recommend you do so. I'd say it's one of the best runs in a Batman title in recent memory.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Well, first there was Action Comics that was a clear front-runner for best of the best, and now there is Batman. Hands down, this was an A+, excellent, delivered as promised Batman relaunch that hit every mark. Fantastic.

Like Lardy, I've been following Snyder for some time and now consider him one of my favorite writers. His prior run in Detective was a big part of that and he continues that greatness here. The issue is paced perfectly with a good amount of time alloted to Bruce so readers get to know him again, but then lots of time left to spotlight all the necessary characters plus more: Dick, Tim, Alfred, Commissioner Gordon, Vicki Vale (!), Bullock (really well done) and even Damien. A new character is also introduced.

But perhaps the character that really shines the most is Gotham City. Both Snyder and Capullo perfectly capture the city and reiterate it's importance and uniqueness.

Speaking of Capullo he was utterly fantastic. I've always like his art and he nails it here, keeping it fresh and exciting so mood and energy just pop off the page. He's aided and abetted by inker Jonathan Glapion, his partner from Haunt, who is one of the best inkers in the business and compliments Capullo's artwork well. Glapion doesn't shy away from detail and he not only keeps the darkness aspect present, he also adds a certain superhero shine to it all.

The issue introduces a new mystery and that is where Snyder excels--with mystery and suspense. Cant wait for the next issue!

Cobie Comparison: did I enjoyore than JL #1? hell yes! Candidate for best of DCnU!
 

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Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
So if a reader were to get just one of the Bruce Wayne titles, which one would be the best bet? Sounds like BATMAN, I think?

First sign of a line-wide crossover and I'm out though... that's what has kept me from reading bat-titles other than NIGHTWING or BIRDS OF PREY.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Yea, def start with Batman. If you feel like a second, try Detective.
 

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Posted by Fat Cramer on :
 
Of all the Batman books, I enjoyed Batman the most. Loved the artwork, Batman's long cape dragging on the ground (impractical but regally spooky), the cityscapes, the way he knows even the gossip-level information about people like Dan Mathhews' wife, the techy stuff and the presence of a seemingly-normal Bruce Wayne. The three Robins are a bit confusing, or mind-bending, especially since they look like they're about 14, 10 and 6 years old, but I'll just have to overlook that.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
I wrapped up a month of Batman relaunches with The Dark Knight, which is really a David Finch production with writer Paul Jenkins brought in to lend Finch some assistance in hopes that by some miracle Finch won't fall behind schedule. Jenkins recently blew my mind on his Deadman story and I'm a fan of Finch's incredible artwork. But I have to say, I found the issue to be a bit disappointing.

The major problem is that it's all just so by the numbers. It hits several sequences that have already actually done in other Bat-titles this month, like a charity event and a breakout at Arkham Asylum. Er, why didn't an editor cross check with the other titles? These tropes were not only already done but done better. The plot is clearly Finch's intention to make a story that let's him draw whatever he feels like; but even Jenkins' dialogue feels like it was thrown in last minute and doesn't have his full attention. The introduction of a potential love interest is too similar to Morrison's Jezebal Jet, except she's half-Indian instead of half-African. Again it's all very by the numbers.

From an art perspective it looks fantastic. I just wish there was a better story attached.

Also, the cliffhanger was kind of laughable--no where near the effect of Detective.
 

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Posted by Lard Lad on :
 
Being a month behind, I just caught up to Detective Comics #1 today. Overall, I wasn't as blown away by it as most people seemed to be. Probably didn't help that the "shock" ending was spoiled for me long before I ever read it. To be fair, though, since this isn't on my official pull, it was probably that very same spoilage that convinced me to pick it up.

The story really wasn't all that entertaining or original until the ending. Daniel pretty much went by the numbers showing Gordon, Alfred, the Batcave, etc. In fact I was a little confused by the police pursuing Batman. I mean, if Batman Inc. still happened, it would seem that ol' Bats should still be at a height of public acceptance. I suppose it's possible that whatever changed Batman Inc.'s status quo might explain it, though. Also, it's possible that the unseen mayor would be the element that's changed things the most, as implied.

The art, though, was the real appeal here. I mean, I stared at and flipped back to that gorgeous 2-page splash of Batman swinging over the city a few times. The cityscape backgrounds were beautiful throughout. Also, I definitely detected some Frank Miller influence in how Daniel portrayed Batman and the Joker on several shots. To me, that was a positive.

Anyhow, there's a bit of a mystery as to what the Joker and Dollmaker are up to. Hopefully, it's a bit more than a take on the movie Face/Off.

So while I wasn't blown away like I expected to be, I was intrigued by the possibilities at the end and especially by Tony Salvadore Daniel's oftimes gorgeous artwork enough that I'll give it a few issues.

[ October 12, 2011, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: Lard Lad ]
 

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Posted by Dave Hackett on :
 
Huntress was a decent by-the-numbers adventure story. Helena is in Italy following up on a weapons smuggling case and comes across white slavers in the process. She decides to stick around and clean up this mess. The organised criminals don't take kindly to this and the war is on.

There's nothing wrong with the issue per se, but it's not mindblowingly great either.
 

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Posted by Dave Hackett on :
 
Batman #2 was a bit of a step down from last month. Not that it was bad in any way, but it didn't "pop" like the premiere issue did. I think my expectations may have been too high.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
So, catching up on Week 1 for month 2, I found myself:

(A) Again impressed by the effort put forth by Tony Daniel on Detective Comics. He really seems to be clicking here on the writing and art, and it reads like a really great Batman story in the making.

(B) Batwing, which is shaping up to be Judd Winnick's best superhero story ever IMO! Really solid job by everyone involved and by issue's end I realized something: I care about Batwing, his adventures, his setting and want to see this seris succeed. And originally, I had no intention of even trying this comic.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Well, I have to admit I was surprised by Batman & Robin #2; after finding the first issue the Bat-title I liked the least out of all 9 of them, I thought the follow-up was a definite step in the right direction. There was certainly a lot to like but without the annoying Damien parts we've become accustomed to seeing.

Batman's struggle to redeem Damien, and the struggle of being a father, comes much more into focus and gets you to root for him succeeding. I can't help but think it will only end in tragedy but at least I can empathize with Batman.

I love Bruce adding a Great Dane to the family. New Ace the Bat-Hound?

Also like the League of Shadows plotline and the organization's natural reaction to Batman, Inc. Very solid idea.

All in all, more enjoyable comic than #1.
 

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Posted by SharkLad on :
 
Batwing #3 was another great issue... love the building mystery of the Kingdom... As gripping as the story is, Ben Oliver's art is nothing short of amazing... and while I'm heaping praise, Brian Reber's colors give the story just the right tone...

4 fins up!
 

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Posted by SharkLad on :
 
Detective #3... this is one seriously messed up story... in a good way... the Dollmaker is creepy as hell... the art is stunning... next issue - Batman vs. the Jokers (yes, that is supposed to be plural)

4 fins up!
 

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Posted by Lard Lad on :
 
So I just read Detective #2, and bruce hooks up AGAIN?!?! Between Selina last month and this Charlotte reporter lady, it appears this DCnU Batman's a PLAYA! (Hope he's carrying plenty of Bat-Condoms on him... )
 

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Posted by Dave Hackett on :
 
Huntress #2 was a solid read, and more engaging somehow than the first issue. Helena's on an ass-kicking spree, hunting down the slavers. She's shown as a competent, no-nonsense hero, who's taking care of business. Really dug it.
 

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Posted by Dave Hackett on :
 
Batman #3 was great, a rebound (for me), form last issue. Love it when Bruce is shown as a competent Detective and the mystery runs deep. The court of Owls is obviously creepy stuff, and even though "Secret Societies" in Gotham are a standard trope, this still looks pretty fresh.
 

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Posted by Fat Cramer on :
 
I'm really enjoying the Court of Owls story and its use of the architecture of Gotham.

It could relate to the Jonah Hex storyline, with its secret society, but that hasn't been identified as Court of Owls.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
I'm also loving the Court of Owls story in Batman. The entire sequence where Batman discovers the secret 13th floor(s) in Gotham's buildings was really eerie! Snyder and Capullo did an excellent job building the tension panel by panel and just drawing me further and further in.

FC, I think you're right--the Hex storyline would so neatly tie-in that I feel it has to be so!

Detective Comics has also been pretty good though I have to admit that Dollmaker and company is getting way too over the top for me. They're just so grotesque and gory that I can't help but giggle a little about it, which is probably *not* the reaction I'm supposed to be having. It's like Batman is guest-starring in "the Hills Have Eyes" or "Texas Chainsaw Massacre". For some reason, it just doesn't all click together. Yet, other than the premise (a major thing, I know), Daniel's art and writing are really top-notch! A weird dichotomy.
 

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Posted by Dave Hackett on :
 
Huntress #3 Helena stays on the trail of the mobster/slaver only to discover a wider plot to cover the escape of a North Africa dictator from the Arab Spring. With the corruption reaching into the police and government, Huntress has to kick a lot of different butt to get close to her ultimate prey. Another solid outing.
 

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Posted by Dave Hackett on :
 
Batman #4 Snyder continues to tell a solid Batman tale. As Bruce gets closer to the Court of Owls, they also go after him. A nice scene with Dick, and some good Detective work. Only thing I didn't like was the flashback. "Young Bruce was on to something" stories always make me groan. I know it's an established Bat-trope, and we are in new territory continuity-wise, but creating a childhood nemesis/connection to a current story with "Young Bruce" just always seems ham-fisted to me, even when good writers do it.
 

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Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
 
Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, and Rhianna are teachers at a school for supervillains in Leviathan Strikes.

Grant Morrison got in my good books again.
 

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Posted by Dave Hackett on :
 
Batman Incorporated, Leviathan Strikes - This one is full on Morrison, which will delight some (me) and frustrate others (the internet). Basically a one-shot collecting the last two unpublished Batman Inc. issues, followed by a nice multi-page recap of what's happened to date (Including things people are bound to have forgotten/missed).

The first story is a fun Batgirl story where she goes undercover in a private school for girl assassins. Totally fun, cool and campy, but not corny. It makes me regret I didn't give Stephanie much notice as Batgirl, because Morrison certainly has her rock out here.

The second story is about Batman Inc, closing in on Dr. Daedalus and what they think is the heart of "Leviathan". Bruce is exposed to Daedelus's gas, which gives him a form of Alzheimer's, and then we get things from Bruce's perspective (in which Morrison goes to town with disjointed narrative and time skips, that will give migraines to those who found Final Crisis choppy). The day is saved by Batman Inc, including a fateful decision by Damien that will resonate later when the series returns, and the not-so unexpected mastermind villain is revealed (which will make a nice endpoint to Morrison's run when it concludes next year).
 

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Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
 
Doesn't it make sense that the villain would be that one? I mean, it makes Morrison's work come full circle since his beginning work with Batman and Son.

Oroborous. The serpent that eats its own tail.
 

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Posted by Dave Hackett on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Sarcasm Kid:
Doesn't it make sense that the villain would be that one? I mean, it makes Morrison's work come full circle since his beginning work with Batman and Son.

Oroborous. The serpent that eats its own tail.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sarcasm Kid:
And I think one of the teachers at Steph's school, Miss Hexley, might've been Madonna.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Hackett:
Huntress #4 - Kudos to Paul for trying to bring some "ripped from the headlines" geo-politics into the book, but honestly, the Libya-style dictator family make for some boring villains. Huntress tracks down some more of the crime ring and takes them out, but it still doesn't seem like a lot of progression happens. I think this series would have been better served compressed into 4 issues, because nothing in this issue was too different from issue #3.

It's also fun to see a competent Huntress, but she also needs some more threatening opposition soon.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
I've avoided spoilers on purpose, so I'm glad I don't know what you're referring to yet.

But at this point I've stopped reading all the Batman books (comic starring Batman) except for Snyder's Batman. I'm also reading Catwoman & Nightwing, both of which I enjoy immensely. Everything else was dropped.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Hackett:
Dropped Batman in favour of Batman Inc (which I haven't got to yet), but read the spoilers online. That's pretty wild stuff if it holds up.

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Oh yeah, I'm getting this too.
 

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Posted by Dev - Em on :
 
Forgot about the earlier thing Blacula...does not make it any netter imho though. I also totally agree n the second point you make.

I just kinda expected more from Snyder. Glad I dropped a long time ago.
 

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Posted by Blacula on :
 
^ Having only read his previous Dick-as-Batman run and thinking back to the James Gordon Jr. as serial killer arc, it does seem like

Click Here For A Spoiler he has an obsession with screwing with his characters' back-stories so that there is always something even more DARK and EVIL at the heart of them than we realized. I hear he did it with his update on Mr Freeze's origin too. Seems like a story-telling technique that could get old fast.

It also seems kinda weird to go there with Bruce's back-story like this so soon after Morrison treaded similar ground in a much more imaginative way in his recent run.
 

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Posted by Fat Cramer on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by SharkLad:
Is anybody reading Red Hood & the Outlaws ? It's one of my favorites of the DCnU... it's mostly Jason's story but Roy and Kory get plenty of panel-time too... I know some folks weren't happy with how Kory was presented in the first couple of issues, but I like this bad-ass version... Roy comes off a little needy but it's an interesting take... issue 9 is part of the "Night of the Owls" storyline, but doesn't seemed forced... Tim Drake made an appearance a couple of issues back, and another member of the bat-family shows up at the end of this issue... waiting for the inevitable meeting with Batman himself... highly recommended...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Hackett:
John Layman ("Chew") comes on board as Detective writer this fall. Thoughts from those still reading Chew?

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That's interesting. I've only ever read his stuff from Chew (which is excellent), so it's hard to predict how he will translate to Batman. Chew has a very comedic tone that is wrapped around a very inventive storyline. If nothing else, it's likely Layman will bring something fresh to the table.

Color me intrigued....
 

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Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
 
I'm glad to see him getting a high profile gig, and I'm hoping he won't have too much editorial interference. It really has the potential to he a lot of fun if he can bring woke of the creative vigor of Chew to Batman.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
I agree with Eryk and Lardy. Hopefully editorial let's him do his thing.

Considering how 'meh' 'Tec, B&R and DK have been, ts certainly a welcome change.
 

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Posted by Fat Cramer on :
 
Very interesting! The first thing that comes to mind is something like "Batman's Bad Night", where everything goes crazy wrong for him and he's surrounded by weirdness. Not that dressing up as a bat isn't weird to begin with....
 

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Posted by Lard Lad on :
 
I hope Layman has both the courage and editorial backing to tell some unconventional Batman stories. Otherwise, I don't see the point in hiring him. Sure am hoping for the best!
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
^

And maybe they could even let him bring a subtle bit of humor to the series. Now *that* would be refreshing.
 

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Posted by Lard Lad on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
^

And maybe they could even let him bring a subtle bit of humor to the series. Now *that* would be refreshing.

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FUCK to the YEAH!
 

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Posted by Fat Cramer on :
 
I see from Previews that the Batman book will be featuring The Joker. I'm out - not only tired of this over-used villain, it really does kick the insane violence up a big notch. Court of Owls was something new, no lack of violence there, but they were a lot more interesting as adversaries.

Hopefully, Detective will be a worthwhile read.
 

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Posted by Fat Cramer on :
 
I dropped Batman but did get the last issue, which was unusual. A young woman who's a whiz at electrical stuff figured out some of Batman's tricks and tried to help him out - much more her (and her brother's) story, standing up to bullies and bad guys, she's inspired by Batman. She'd be a good secondary character in the series.
 

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Posted by Lard Lad on :
 
Y'know. While Snyder's stuff on the DCnUCoke*** isn't bad, I've come to realize that his run on Detective pre-DCnUCoke (with Dick under the cowl...heh, that was unintentionally funny ) was much, MUCH better! This relaunch is a lot more style over substance, and it doesn't help that it's been dragging on with the Court of Owls storyline until very recently. And the pay-off was kinda wishy-washy to boot, having a major revelation but then backing off.

I think Snyder, Jock and Francavilla were absolute MAGIC on 'Tec, imo. They told moody, complex stories. Sure, there was an over-arcing plot with James Gordon, Jr., but I liked how the seperate and related bits could stand on their on. And that finale to the 'Tec run---WOW!

Capullo does admirable work on the book, but I wouldn't put it up there with my personally definitive takes on the character. If Greg gave way to Francavilla, well, I'd more than likely consider it a top book still.

I don't know if Snyder was more inspired writing Dick Grayson or not, but I haven't seen all that much in his interpretation of Bruce to make me think Bruce does it for him. That issue where Bruce is drugged, crazy and captive was something else, but really, it may as well have never happened for all the lack of consequence shown.

As it stands, I may or may not pick up individual issues of Batman from here on out, but it's not on my pull list anymore, along with the rest of the lot with the lone exception of LSH. I suspect I could easily do without or simple await the trades since the stories drag out like much of the other DCnUCoke books do.


***Props to Cobie for this one!
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
I totally agree with your assessment. While not bad by any means, Snyder's Batman run (and Swamp Thing run) is just not comparing with his previous run on Detective and his work on American Vampire. There is a little something lacking that is making them a bit more run of the mill.

The major problem, I believe, is the dragged out story-telling style. The scripts & plots are just not as tight. And a good indicator of that is Batman #12, which actually was a fantastic story—the best issue of the Batman run so far! Snyder delivered a tight, personal script that hit all the right beats and it was far more effective than the previous 11 issues combined.

I actually think Capullo is fantastic as an artist and I'm enjoying his artwork. I think the problem lies more on Snyder's side. Either he's not meeting Capullo's strengths or trying to play to them too much and therefore is not pushing enough of his own. Jock and Francavilla were moody and atmospheric, and it worked. Capullo is a totally different artist but he can nail those beats in his own way.

As it stands, Batman is a solid mid-tier, B-level comic book right now. It just so happens to be one of DC's best, but that isn't really saying much. But when compared to American Vampire, which Snyder writes, you're left wondering why it isn't a whole lot better?

(Psst: we know the answer is editorial).
 

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Posted by Dave Hackett on :
 
Yeah, I dropped Batman (and am dangerously close to dropping Swamp Thing). The only Bat-title left on my list is Batman Inc., which I'm hopeful will put aside any reference to the New52 at all and just finish out the story Morrison started years ago.
 

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Posted by Power Boy on :
 
Batman Inc #0 sure was pretty.
 

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Posted by Lard Lad on :
 
Good reviews coming in for John Layman's first issue of 'Tec....
 

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Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Power Boy:
Batman Inc #0 sure was pretty.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sarcasm Kid:

quote:

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Originally posted by Power Boy:
Batman Inc #0 sure was pretty.

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That's because Frazier Irving is amazing.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sarcasm Kid:

quote:

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Originally posted by Power Boy:
Batman Inc #0 sure was pretty.

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That's because Frazier Irving is amazing.

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