**SPOILERS** - Frank Miller and Jim Lee. Sounds good, but so far, I'm not excited. - The use of Vicki Vale here is a bit of a mystery to me. She comes across as an old-fashioned Lois Lane type of "fiesty reporter" and not much else (the twist I guess being that she's infatuated with Bruce Wayne and not impressed with the Batman). The t&a struck me as reminiscient of Miller's "Sin City", but sex is an intergral part of that book. Here it seems out of place. It certainly doesn't help that Bruce doesn't devote any of his narration to her or what possible significance she might have to him. - That last panel where Batman "drafts" Robin into a war is a bit too much like the "facist Batman" we saw in "Dark Knight". It makes me think if we'll see a Batman/ Robin relationship here that's like the one he had with the girl Robin or if we'll see more of the kind of Batman/Robin relationship that was hinted at in DKSA (you know, where Bruce denegrates Dick for not being able to hack it and tosses him into a volcano). Miller made great use of the Carrie Robin, using her to show us Bruce's soft side and human frailty as an older guy just hanging in there. It remains to be seen if Miller plans on showig us similar humanity with the younger Bruce.
Posted by Caliente on :
I'm not sure what I think yet. It's very...
.........mediocre. I'm not impressed or unimpressed. I think I more just don't know if I should care or not.
*shrugs* I guess, we'll see how it stacks up.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
I agree with your assessment. The story and characters are immediately accessible but I found it a bit dull. -I wonder who the target audience for this book is. The T&A shows it's not kids, my guess it's a movie tie in. Mostly kids 16 and older plus adults who may have read comics as kids and are curious because of the movie. -I thought Batman splitting the cop car in two with the batmobile was a bit too much.
[ July 15, 2005, 07:30 PM: Message edited by: Tamper Lad ]
Posted by Blacula on :
Yeah. What happened there? Did Batman just kill all those cops or what? If so this is a very different Batman to the one we're used to reading about.
I agree about the T&A criticism. Was there any point at all in having 4 pages of Lois La-oops I mean Vicki Vale wandering around in her underwear?
I was largely underwhelmed too. I bought this issue because of all the hooplah and promotion surrounding it but I'm not enough of a Batman fan to continue supporting a mediocre product.
Posted by Star Boy on :
Phew! Glad I wasn't the only one that seemed underwhelmed as well. I was so much more excited for All Star Superman than Batman and this issue just confirmed it for me.
Posted by Semi Transparent Fellow on :
I was blown away by the art - this was old fashioned romance comic art in full bloom. I loved it. When the visuals are that good, and the story telling is straightforward, as is the case here, I can relax and enjoy the ride. I'm looking forward to more.
Posted by Semi Transparent Fellow on :
Oh, one thing I noticed was a reference to the old concern about about the nature of Bruce Wayne's relationship with Dick Grayson. When Bruce Wayne says he's had his eye on Dick Grayson for quite a while, Vicki quite rightly raises her eyebrows and asks him why he's had his eye on him.
[ July 16, 2005, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: Semi Transparent Fellow ]
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
I just hope Miller doesn't have Batman call Dick "peach" again...
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Semi Transparent Fellow: Oh, one thing I noticed was a reference to the old concern about about the nature of Bruce Wayne's relationship with Dick Grayson. When Bruce Wayne says he's had his eye on Dick Grayson for quite a while, Vicki quite rightly raises her eyebrows and asks him why he's had his eye on him.
I got the whole SOTI insinuation straight away as well. Miller seems to be having some fun with the whole idea. It does seem creepy in another way too, like Bruce almost expected the Grayson's to be murdered.
Posted by MLLASH on :
I'm no Batfan, but I was actually going to buy this.... now I'm not so sure... though Semi's comments on the art tilt me back towards buying it... though I would expect no less from Jim Lee.
Posted by Caliente on :
The art was pretty amazing. I just wasn't WOWed by the comic as a whole. The portrayels were... mediocre. I wasn't disgusted but I'm not sure it's worth my money.
[ July 16, 2005, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: Caliente ]
Posted by lil'rhino on :
Art: faboo!
Story: feh!
Posted by Probability Pete on :
I missed this at the CBS last week, now I don't think I'll pick it up, just wait for the trade maybe. What's been good is the storyline running in "Legends of the Dark Knight" with Mr. Freeze.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
Flipped through a copy at SDCC and I tend to agree about the great art and so-so story thus far. I'm going to give it another issue or so and see where it goes.
Posted by Director Lad on :
Hmm. I guess I'm just not a big Jim Lee fan. I found both the story and the art to be particularly underwhelming. I really hope that Morrison's All-star Supes raises the bar on this line.
Posted by Owl Lad on :
For whatever it's worth, All Star Batman and Robin was featured in a recent Entertainment Weekly issue as something worth picking up.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
quote:Originally posted by Owl Lad: For whatever it's worth, All Star Batman and Robin was featured in a recent Entertainment Weekly issue as something worth picking up.
Not to be cynical, but that's corporate synergy at work (DC and ET are both Time Warner). To be less cynical, it might be great for non-comic readers who want to read a story free from continuity quagmire and Miller has been riding a wave of good PR lately as well.
As a total aside, I recently reread "Dark Knight Strikes Again" in one sitting and found it more enjoyable than when it originally came out. Partly because it made for a denser read, partly because the unrealistic expectations weren't there, whatever. I just know that I enjoyed it a lot more the second time around.
Posted by Stargazer on :
Interesting on how the Flying Graysons were knocked off...very Bruce Waynish.
Posted by ferroboy on :
I didn't get that feeling at all. Sure, Batman was obviously eying him as a protege, but he seemed as surprised as everyone else that the Grayson's were murdered.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
Well number 2 was much better. Batman is borderline psychotic. I think I'll give it one or two more issues for Robin's sake.
Funny to see Lee emulating Miller to such a huge extent. Jim Lee doing a 16 panel grid. Hahaha.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
That's what I was afraid of. I'm not interested in a psycho Batman. Been there, done that.
Posted by armsfalloffboy on :
I was a little underwhelmed, but thought it was okay. I'll give it another issue. I wish Vicki had been a little less exposed, my 6 year old was interested in reading it but I didn't feel comfortable.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
True that A.f.b. How many pages did she spend half-naked with shirtless Alfred?
I had to do a double take, cuz usually in comics no matter what happens a butler's uniform must remain perfectly pressed and immaculate.
[ September 15, 2005, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: Tamper Lad ]
Posted by SouthtownKid on :
When DK2 was announced, I knew there was no way it could live up to the nearly 20 year hype and expectations. So when it came out, although it was far from my favorite comic ever, I was able to appreciate it, and I respected that Miller went a different direction, bucking expectations.
But I really thought All Star Batman and Robin couldn't miss. I didn't think there was any possible way it could turn out to disappoint me as much as it has.
I really, really dislike this book.
I like Sin City, but it seems like Miller is losing his ability to write dialogue for anything else. Batman sounds like Marv or something. Miller saying this takes place in the "same universe" as Year One, makes me really wonder if he's ever reread his own work over the past couple decades.
I'll give them 2 more issues to show me I don't know what I'm talking about.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
It's been really underwhelming, hasn't it? I decided that I'm dropping this as soon as All-Star Superman hits so I guess that's one more issue.
I don't think I really liked miller's stuff anyways. Well maybe Daredevil out of any of it i liked. Well Morrison can't miss with me anyways so bye-bye frank hello grant in Novemember.
Posted by Stargazer on :
I just read issue #2.. ummm did anyone else find it bizarre that the car flew? Not soar...flew? I guess this version they wont need a bat-plane.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
The Flying Batmobile almost makes sense -- it was always a bit of a stretch that he never gets caught in traffic.
I really don't know what to think of this. Batman is coming across as really ... odd here (especially with that weird smile on this face). Since he was putting on an act of some kind for Dick's sake, it's not clear what Miller's take on Batman is this time around. The "are you, retarded or something? -- I'm the goddamn Batman" line was borderline offensive. This seems more like a Batman satire than an "iconic" representation of the character.
I'll stick around a bit to see where it goes, but things better pick up or turn around next ish.
Posted by Stargazer on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DrakeB3004: [ The "are you, retarded or something? -- I'm the goddamn Batman" line was borderline offensive. This seems more like a Batman satire than an "iconic" representation of the character.
I have to agree..It kinda shocked me when he used colorful metaphors in dealing with a 12 year old in shock.
Posted by 235 - Andy S on :
okay, issue #1 had funky pacing (for me) but some pretty pictures issue #2 still had some pretty shots, but the dialogue and plotting are WAY too gritty for the sleek lines and lush colors
heck, batman's CHARACTER is too gritty for the shots ... i feel like we're watching Batman being done through a Warren Ellis lens -- smelling of liquor, a hostile intelligence and fists that can turn an army into pudding
i haven't seen anything in Lee's work that convinces me he understands this take on the character (Quitely would have knocked it out of the ballpark, IMO)
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Will someone please tell Frank Miller to stop doing covers? He should be arrested for battery for what he's done to the Black Canary on his alternate cover to ASBaR #3:
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
I quit reading it after issue 2. My sister is mentally impaired thanks to a crappy doctor at birth. I know that "retard" isn't supposed to be an insult in today's slang, but i think thats frankly bullshit. And i know that this a personal thing for me alone, but its what it is. So i quite reading it. If he was going around using "fag" in a derogatory way, or "raging bitch", no one would let him get away with it.
I don't expect the same reaction from others, thats just the way i see it.
Posted by MLLASH on :
Lots of people find the usage of the word "retard" offensive.
I saw Black Canary on the LEE cover version of # 3, and was tempted, but I still think I'll hold out for the All-Star SUPERMAN..
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by MLLASH: Lots of people find the usage of the word "retard" offensive.
It has, to my knowledge, not stopped being either a straight-up insult or a derogatory way of describing something.
I wasn't impressed by either cover, but in the case of the Lee one, I find myself being slightly irritated by BC's costume design and poses.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
Upon further review, my previous ruling of giving this another issue or two is overturned. Three bucks will be transfered from Miller to Morrison's Superman.
Miller is charged with writing a vulgar and unreadable Batman.
Posted by Gay-lipso on :
Here in the UK at least 'retard' is still a hugely offensive term and Chris and I have been very shocked when we've heard it used on a few US shows recently (I think including the Simpsons). The idea that someone would be stupid enough to use it in this day and age annoys me a lot.
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by MLLASH: I saw Black Canary on the LEE cover version of # 3, and was tempted, but I still think I'll hold out for the All-Star SUPERMAN..
Ummm... doesn't the Lee cover have Robin's face getting smothered by what looks like Batman's glove?
When does AS: Superman come out? Any week now, right?
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
Week of November 16th, I think.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
Read the preview copy of All-Star Superman #1 in Boston.
It rocked.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by Reboot: Ummm... doesn't the Lee cover have Robin's face getting smothered by what looks like Batman's glove?
He might be thinking of #4 (as was I), which I believe is a Lee Black Canary cover.
Posted by MLLASH on :
I knew I'd seen a Lee Black Canary cover somewhere. Thanks.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Outdoor Miner:
quote:Originally posted by Reboot: Ummm... doesn't the Lee cover have Robin's face getting smothered by what looks like Batman's glove?
He might be thinking of #4 (as was I), which I believe is a Lee Black Canary cover.
Um, doesn't look like Black Canary to me.
Posted by Reboot on :
Next, someone claims #5 is a Lee BC cover Posted by MLLASH on :
There's a freakin' Lee Black Canary cover out there somewhere.
I'M NOT CRAZZZZZZZZZZZY!
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I believe you're thinking of the regular Lee cover to #3, Lash. It's the one with her in full 'kick in the face' position.
Er, but your craziness is why your my hero, oh beloved one Posted by MLLASH on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I believe you're thinking of the regular Lee cover to #3, Lash. It's the one with her in full 'kick in the face' position
That's what, like, I've been SAYIN' and stuff! But Scott and Reboot are trying to convince me I've lost my last marble!
Well, I'll have them know I've got plenty of marbles! Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
Whichever.
Those of us who were in Boston saw what looked like a Lee Black Canary cover image during the DC slideshow.
Cramer will back me up on this. Through clenched teeth, perhaps, but she'll back me up.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Well, this is the regular, albeit uncolored, cover to #3:
I looked thru the DC slideshows for SD and Chicago and they didn't have a BC themed cover. And DC must have decided not to load up the Boston slideshow because it wasn't available.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
OK.
Get out your copy of Legion #11.
Go to the last page - the "DC in Demand" page.
Look at the "Hot List" section on the left-hand side of the page.
Look at the image next to the write-up of AS Batman & Robin #3.
That's what we're talking about. Might not be the actual cover at this point, though. (And Lash got it right that it was for #3 and not #4.)
Posted by MLLASH on :
Well I'm glad that's settled. Thanks, Miner!
Posted by Pov on :
Gah!
Looks like there's a Batgirl appearance I -won't- be buying...
Click Here For A SpoilerSTOOPid Alicia Silverstone mask! STOOPid! And WTF is with the hero insignia charms in her hair and on her belt?!
This book blows. Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
#4 is likely my last issue. I want to see what happens when they finally get to the cave. Not sure why I still care at this point, though.
Posted by rtvu2 on :
Seriously, WTF?
All-Star Superman is a much better read two issues in. Miller needs to get out of the cave he is hiding in. What in the world is going on?
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
It's simple, really.
He's writing the early history of Dark Knight Returns Batman. Which isn't really what people expected when the All-Star line was announced, but what they probably should have figured would happen when Miller's name was linked to the title.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
I don't know why I even bothered ordering this title. It couldn't even open up the first issue because of the atrocious story. And that Batgirl cover almost made me lose my lunch. If Miller continues to be the only writer associated with this title, I'm dropping it.
[ March 13, 2006, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: Lightning Lad ]
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
Hmmmm Can I have my money back for the first three issues? I'm not giving them any more for this one. There's too much good stuff out there that I'd rather get.
I thought this was supposed to be an accessible mass market friendly Batman for the movie crowd.
Miller's Batgirl and his Black Canary have to be the two ugliest renditions of those two characters to ever grace covers of comics.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
But, but, but...you guys haven't even seen the new Miller renditions of child-molester Calender Man and cannibal Signal Man! C'mon--you've gotta be wondering the damage Miller could do with All-Star Harvey Bullock!
It's like watching a car crash! I-I just can't pull my eyes away...
Posted by Pov on :
Kevin Church (www.beaucoupkevin.com) has this in multiple resolutions for making teh GD wallpaper. Good for a laugh. Posted by Pov on :
quote:Originally posted by Outdoor Miner: Those of us who were in Boston saw what looked like a Lee Black Canary cover image during the DC slideshow.
Cramer will back me up on this. Through clenched teeth, perhaps, but she'll back me up.
I did not know darling Cramer knew such words. I have to say, that would've been a singular and traumatic memory from the Boston get-together... if not for the conversation I shared with Cobie and Stu on one of the carrides back home... Posted by Pov on :
Jesus wept:
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