Has anyone else dropped this book recently? Or are people doing just the opposite - recommending it to their friends?
I've been aboard since the start. And while I'd recommend, in a heartbeat, "Quiver" and "The Archer's Quest" to any and all, I haven't been proud of this book in about a year, a few issues notwithstanding.
Judd is rightly trying to do street-level plots and leave the aliens to GL.
But, c'mon. The Duke of Oil????
As a challenge for SPEEDY, maybe. But not all of Team Arrow.
Vertigo hasn't been seen in two years. So much for a Rogues Gallery ...
The opponents aren't A-level, and that's watering down the stories. I echo those who've said Meltzer wrote the best GA in IDC.
And the book needs a sharper, more elegant artist, a la Jim Aparo or Mike Grell.
I really planned to stick around past 50, with Black Lightning on the way. But after the anniversary issue, I'm truly convinced GA needs a major talent overhaul.
I'd love to hear what people think, though ...
Mike
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
CK, I have to agree that Brick and the little assassin guy left me feeling the 'oh, wow, woopty doo' feeling. Pretty weak overall.
Where Judd excells in GA is the moments between Ollie, Mia and Connor, IMO. The addition of some supporting characters would be good too, especially non-superpowered ones.
But Judd really lacks the ability to make a dramatic villain and/or fight scene, which is shown here. The Riddler will always be a Bat-villain, and the previous too I mentioned are pretty weak. His Batman is borderline atrocious IMO, with both Black Mask and the Red Hood being very 'meh' (and I traditionally liked Black Mask). Overall, Judd's best work is probably Outsiders.
So it's a give and take for me with GA. His scenes with Mia and Ollie (and Connor!) really are great though.
Posted by Beagz on :
I actually dropped Green Arrow a while back. And I dropped it for the same reason I dropped Green Lantern.
IN MY OPINION, Judd cannot tell a story without beating you over the head with it. The last arc I got was when the Monsters were killing people for stealing. Sorry, I just didn't feel like we needed 4 issues to tell us over and over that stealing was bad. (Yeah, yeah, yeah ... there was other stuff going on, but that was what struck me for 4 issues.)
But I kinda had a sour taste for Judd because I felt he took the same approach in Green Lantern a few years earlier. As such, I'm going to have a hard time reading another book he writes.
I'm just waiting for Green Arrow to become the Golden Archer, the most all powerful being in the entire universe that could ever be imagined.
Posted by Stargazer on :
I have always been a Green Arrow fan ( Grell was awsome) I think the villians could be a little more up to date. Brick reminds me of the character in the Milestone comic Blood Syndicate. The Duke of Oil was a joke when he showed up in the original Outsiders. I do like the interaction between Team Green. I am gonna hang around and see if it gets better.
Posted by CreativityKid on :
Here's a thought:
Is the "Team Green" concept weighing this book down?
The best moments early in this run were when Ollie had to solve problems himself.
Except, now, he's got two top weapons-masters and another very good archer to bail him out.
I love having Connor, Mia and Roy around. But have they become part of the problem of finding good villains for this book?
Maybe some GA solo-stories would get things back on track ...
Posted by armsfalloffboy on :
I also bailed during the monsters storyline. Haven't seen anything to interest me in the title beyond Ollie himself, and I'm too old and too poor to collect comics because of the characters anymore. I'll pick it back up in a heartbeat whenever a writer I like takes it over.
Posted by Blacula on :
Kevin Smith's run on this book - FANTASTIC! Brad Meltzer's run on this book - FAN-FREAKIN'-TASTIC! Judd Winnick's run on this book -
Had been praying for a new writer on this book for ages but the powers that be never listened, and so now this book is a floundering mess of turgid waste. Judd Winnick has done so much to destroy any interest I had in Green Arrow (my once favourite character) that I doubt even a new creative team would be enough to revive it now, though it would certainly be a start.
Posted by RTVU2 on :
Boy I thought I was the only one that thought that. I was planning on dropping the book and will probably still with issue 50. It is just not that good of a read anymore.
I do like Winick on Batman though and Outsiders so I will keep those two.
Posted by profh0011 on :
If I recall, I started a similar GA thread a few months back. Hmm. I dropped the book as soon as I saw the new artist. I really liked Phil Hester, and with the exception of the GA-GL crossover, most of the fill-in art had been good, too. But the new look? UGH!!!!!!!!!
Funny thing... I STILL have the LONGBOW HUNTERS promotional poster hanging on my wall, after all these years!!! Yeah, I dug Mike Grell big-time. It was a shame the regular GA series came at a time when he (along with Jim Starlin, John Byrne and a few others) decided they didn't want to draw anymore-- just write. So much of these creators' whole style, thing, "aura", whatever, is tied up in their doing both story AND art, and it just isn't the same WITHOUT the art.
Add to that, the longer Grell stayed on GA, the most he PISSED me off, with the way he kept screwing up the Ollie-Dinah relationship, eventually leading to their break-up. He pulled the exact same stunt in WARLORD, except in GA it wasn't half as interesting-- or well-executed. Grell-- THE guy for GA-- got me SO fed up with GA-- that when he left, so did I. I figured, I'd gotten so disgusted with the character under such a "talent", I didn't feel like putting up with whatever ANYONE ELSE would toss out at the readers.
Mike Grell is currently doing a brand-new JON SABLE FREELANCE mini-series for IDW. Check it out!!! The quality of the art is on the level with LONGBOW HUNTERS-- meaning, some of Grell's BEST, ever.
I'm sure there must be a lot of talented people out there who could tackle GA-- new and past. (Does ANYONE remember when Alan Moore did a GA story in DETECTIVE ???)
Posted by CreativityKid on :
I could live with the art if the stories were interesting.
And the Riddler would have been a respectable choice - if it was a 1-on-1 fight, not against Team Arrow.
GA was the FIRST recruit into the JLA. He's by most standards the top archer in the DCU.
And he deserves mop-up villains like the DoO why?
A thought: when Gail is done with the new, improved CatMan, let him go a few rounds with Ollie.
Alone.
Other possible villains (and I realize most of them are others' rogues):
- Signalman - Rag Doll - A new Sportsmaster
And how about team-ups/encounters with the Kirk DePaul Manhunter and Dr. Mid-Nite?
Posted by MLLASH on :
Well jillikers, I'm still enjoying it quite a bit!
# 50 was a lot of fun (NOTE: THIS POST WILL CONTAIN SPOLIERS FOR # 50), what with the OUTSIDERS appearance and all, and the Mia-is-HIV-positive issue was one of the most touching comics I'd read in years.
I've no problems with the Duke of Oil, I thought it was kewl Judd brought him back!
ANd I love how DEATHSTROKE has become the Billy Badass of DCU villains, and he's now gunning for Ollie per # 50. Now THERE'S your upscale villain.
But when did The Riddler become The Joker? He was WAY too Joker-esque in appearance AND action for me.
Roy, Connor and Mia enhance the GREEN ARROW title for me, I want 'em ALL there.
Posted by profh0011 on :
"But when did The Riddler become The Joker?"
January 1966 to be exact. (Think about it!)
Posted by Blacula on :
Its weird. All the elements MLLASH mentions as being in 'Green Arrow' are normally all the things I love about a comic...
* Cheesy little-seen villains making a return - check!
* Important social issues like HIV being introduced and explored - check!
* Ollie, Connor, Roy, Dinah and Mia (some of my favourite DCU characters) all in the same comic - check!
So the ideas are all there, but there's just something in Winnick's writing that I'm completely allergic to. I've tried reading so much of his Green Arrow and Outsiders stuff and its all I can do to not throw the comic half way across the shop in disgust!
Maybe he'd be better off as an editor so some of his ideas could still be used but I'd be spared his horrible way with words?
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
So GA OYL.. Discuss.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
"He got better"?? ... I don't know if we need another contender in the "who's the best fighter in the DCU" competition. I kinda liked the fact that Ollie would get knocked around - it made his fortitude all the more impressive. I don't need to see him with ninja skills or whatever. Hopefully they won't harp on it overly much.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
i can't stand Winnick's writing. The only thing worse that his taking over GA and ruining it for me (Have the Trevor Von Eden Mini, the Grell Longbow, the entire previous run, Kevin and Brad's stuff, dropped it when winnick hit) would be if they stuck him on nightwing.
We thought we had it bad with Grayson. The new guy isn't horrible, be he ain't great either. But if we got stuck with Winnick....man, that would kill the book for me completely.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
I'm a bit disappointed in the OYL GA. There's been very little action. Winnick said this latest issue would pick up the slack, but it sure didn't feel like it. We got a cool fight with Deathstroke, but it wasn't intense or exciting. McDaniel drew it, but it still feels like a waste of his talent here.
And I don't like Ollie being an expert in the arts martial- that was Connor's schtick. Give me the rough and tumble street brawler.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
*yawn* We got an issue devoted to recap last issue!!!!!!!!!!!
Ollie talks with his aide about Deathstroke's capture. We learn Ollie is real wealthy, and he played some dirty business to get that way. There's some nasty monster stuff brewing in the slums of Star City, and Brick is the only one in the way.
McDaniel draws some nice pictures. But there's no action. This title has lost all the energy Smith and Meltzer brought to it. Winnick had some good tales, and during IC it was exciting to see. But the inconsistencies and OYL have really killed my interest in this book.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
SPEEDY!?!?!
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
Ever get the feeling you're talking to yourself?
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
quote:Originally posted by CJ Taylor: And I don't like Ollie being an expert in the arts martial- that was Connor's schtick. Give me the rough and tumble street brawler.
I agree. The guy has arrows - he's gonna usually be outclassed and that's what's cool about Ollie because he manages to triumph anyway, taking a lot of hard knocks along the way but never giving up. It's less so when he's all "super-martial artsy".
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
Finally McDaniel gets to draw some motion. Too bad it's all just training montages for Ollie. So now we know how good a fighter Ollie is, and how he made all his money.
This title isn't the snooze fest Hawkgirl or Nightwing is, but it needs something more. Some bad guys and crimefighting.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I'm with you CJ. Its not a bad series--its pretty fun in fact with lots to applaud, especially McDaniel's art. But it is lacking *something*, whatever that is.
Having Speedy return and now showing her and Conner with Ollie during the missing year is a plus.
I've never warmed up to Winnick's villains, but love his use of Deathstroke here.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
And we've got the story behind Ollie's year. He spend s most of it on an island, training to be a btter fighter. This issue he explains how the old method (bow and arrows) wasn't enough anymore.
There's more action here as Ollie takes on a horder of assassins sent by one of his teachers to break his moral code. There's a lot of fighting, and McDaniel gets to shine. It's fluid and pretty and fun to see Ollie's big face off.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
Anyone reading Connor's mini?
And the new issue has some more energy to it, with a Batman guest appearance.
I'm still waiting for Judd to let McDaniel cut loose
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
The Bat really seems to have energized this title. Judd has given Speedy a sassy side. And he seems to have nailed the Ollie/Bruce relationship. Having them trade off Brick and the Red Hood has me waiting for the next issue- a first since OYL.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
Judging from the lack of discussion, there's not much interest in GA these days. Which makes sense with the series ending in two issues.
Reading ish #73, I can see why. Ollie has become a Batman double. He's got multiple sidekicks. Speedy has even become an Oracle type info-gal. Roy's gone on to bigger and better while Connor has filled the Robin role.
The current city divided story is just re-hashing Bat's NML from a few years back. Even McDaniel did time over in the Butbooks.
I really miss the Grell and Dixon GA.
Posted by Hunt Drouin on :
CJ, is it worth picking up the last few issues? I'm intrigued by the Dinah/Ollie relationship and it looks like there's some big brewing going on there.
Can't believe she'd marry him, though, especially not with her chairing the JLA and with Sin (what is that woman thinking?).
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
Dinah popped up on the last page of ish 73. I'm guessing the last two issues will be Ollie pining over her as team Arrow takes down Brick and his generic meta underlings.
I'd skip it if you haven't been reading. With the Year One and the looming BC/GA relaunch, this story will get the trade treatment.
![[Disgusting]](graemlins/puke.gif)