[ June 04, 2005, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: ActorLad ]
Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
It used to be that they were dead if you saw the body. Not any more.
Posted by Harbinger on :
Dull, dull, dull.
We gave up on the Xmen a while ago, and I'm glad we did. The best thing ******** ever did was die.
Posted by Reboot on :
Don't you mean Uncanny X-Men #455 Posted by High Priestess Viviane on :
NO...people must come back until Jean is restored!
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
If it wasn't for the hair and some coloring effects I would have had no idea who I was looking at. When did Alan Davis' art go to hell? That is the ugliest I've ever seen ******** look.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I agree Scott. I wouldn't have recognized ***** if not for ***'s power showing.
Why even bring this character back? I wanted Colossus back, but was willing to stop there.
Posted by Reboot on :
Can someone edit SPOILERS into the title along with the Uncanny so that we can actually SAY Psylocke, huh?
Posted by matlock on :
Reboot - your post spoils the spoilers in the active topics page but now it won't.
Posted by High Priestess Viviane on :
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: If it wasn't for the hair and some coloring effects I would have had no idea who I was looking at. When did Alan Davis' art go to hell? That is the ugliest I've ever seen ******** look.
Can't disagree with you there.
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: [QB]Why even bring this character back?[QB]
Because this character a fan favorite, take those away and you lose readers, they lost me when they killed Jean, again, damn bastards!
Posted by RTVU2 on :
Well, _____ said that __________ was never supposed to stay dead anyways...
Posted by Just Pov on :
Spoil away, guys.
And 'boot, I forgot the Uncanny 'cause I can still remember when it was the ONLY X-book.
Ah, the good old days... / Posted by 235 - Andy S on :
WOW this is so FRICKING AMAZINGLY stupid
no wonder i dropped this
why is she still Asian? doesn't anyone remember that betsy's a white super-model from england?
oh, right, i forgot - she got her sneaky warrior ninja skills when she turned yellow ... i mean, asian
ugh
claremont needs to be retired
and is Marvel's goal to put as many X-characters back in action so as to promote as many different products as possible?
at least there's no shortage of happy meal toys for the next few movies
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
X-continuity is so convoluted and utterly forgetable, I forgot: what happened to the woman with Betsy's old (white) body? "Revanche?" (or whatever the hell her name was) I so don't remember that story and I'll probably be sorry for asking ...
I couldn't help but think that she's back only because either Claremont and or Davis didn't want her to really be dead.
Posted by Just Pov on :
Revanche ended up dying from the Legacy Virus in (just) X-MEN, somewhere in the 30's I believe... it was after Scott and Jean's wedding, while Andy Kubert was drawing the title. Like you say, utterly forgettable.
I think Claremont was roped into getting rid of her... too many psi's in the X-books and editorial probably said Betsy had to go.
Posted by Kinetix on :
...Wow, such non-love.
I'm glad to see this character back, as it was all part of the plan back when she was killed, as part of an arc to restore her back to her good ol' British self, and it was used to establish that the new villain meant business by killing off a long-standing character.
And Alan Davis is near the top of his game with his work on Uncanny, and still brings far more variance to character looks than most of the industry.
So nyah!
=)
J
Posted by Just Pov on :
Don't get me wrong, J, I'm ONLY buying Uncanny for Davis' art... all right, I bought the Coipel arc also...
But so far, all we've gotten from those arcs storywise is a) the launch of X-23 ( ) and b) the return of yet another dead character. I find it hard to be all oogly moogly over the art when the stories are so pedestrian.
And the cover doesn't make it look like Betsy's gone back to her original appearance...
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
Not only were there too many psi's, there were probably too many "suddenly you're a ninja" characters on the team at the time too...
Posted by Just Pov on :
So does that mean you won't be buying NinjaX this Spring, starring EleXtra, Dare(X)Devil, Psylocke and (you guessed it!) Wolverine?!
(Sorry, I crack myself up... )
Posted by MLLASH on :
Feh. I recently bought a few issues of the Claremont/Coipel/Davis and the Austen X-MEN books, but you know what I realized? I don't give a fat rat's ass about any of those characters anymore. Not one of 'em. They're kind of like Madonna's music... Once I loved it, but I've outgrown it, I guess.
Posted by Kinetix on :
Yeah, Betsy is still Asian. Just saying that I wouldn't be surprised if that's fixed before too long. On the other hand, it took four years to get through phase one of the plan.
And Ninjax? Wasn't that a Valiant Comics? *grins*
J
Posted by Just Pov on :
Should bring back warm memories for Joey Quesadilla, then... he drew the first few issues of Valiant's Ninjax. But THIS would be NinjaX! With capital X! Because X makes everything better!!!! Posted by ferroboy on :
It's funny because I could swear I read an interview with Claremont last month where he states that Betsy is dead. Of course, I only scanned through UXM in the store because my time with Claremont books is over. Her hatred of Bishop is a little on the lame side, IMO.
Lash, I know what you're saying, and that's why I'm selective about which x-books I read. I did pick up Milligan's first issue of X-Men and it's decent. There was no moaning and complaining, no angsty characters, and, best of all, just about zero interplay between Rogue and Gambit. To be honest, I liked Rogue for the first time since the 1980s. You might want to give this book a try.
[ February 06, 2005, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: ferroboy ]
Posted by MLLASH on :
Milligan wrote X-Force/X-Statix. That *is* tempting.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Haven't read the Milligan issue yet, plan on it.
Once again, I implore all of you to pick up Whedon's Astonishing X-Men! *Choke* Petey and Kitty are back to themselves again!
Claremont, as he's been for the last twenty years, is still hit or miss with me. I like a lot of what he does and how he writes characters, but there is just so much he does that gets on my nerves...
Posted by disaster boy on :
well. betts was one of my favorite characters. back before she got that makeover. and bafore she was split in two, or her power was or whatever i cant even keep track. nor do i care.
her character had a solid personality/identity before she was changed. maybe whedon should've brought her back.
claremont didn't even create her did he? i am/ was a big fan of claremont...his books helped raise me but, his writing now is really messy.
i agree on alan's art, he used to be one of my favorites but lately it's really cartoony.
i think we should have a betsy wake! my favorite betsy moment was when she held off sabre tooth way back when she joined the x-man. or when she suggested they kill havok when havok rejoined the team during the marauder massacre.
somehow her being brought back just makes me think she's really dead. that her charcter will just get more and more convuluded.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
They tried at one point to explain the whole Revanche/Betsy thing...and didn't exactly do a bang up job.
Posted by Kinetix on :
Claremont...I'm not sure if he created her, but he did have a hand in defining her character, as did Alan Davis, moreso Davis.
And of course Claremont said she was dead in that interview awhile ago, because she WAS dead.
J
Posted by Jorg-El on :
quote:Originally posted by MLLASH: They're kind of like Madonna's music... Once I loved it, but I've outgrown it, I guess.
Lash don't fool yourself...you may have overheard Madonna for the last ten years and need a break. You will be dancing to it again in a couple of years. Trust me.
I am glad Psylocke back but was hoping she wasn't a ninja again. Very confusing story overall. She is popular as a ninja but was hoping she was a bit more british again.
Posted by Numf-El on :
It all reminds me of Winnie-The-Pooh.
Take any bog-standard pile of shit and stick a Winnie-The-Pooh character on it (whether it be Winnie, Tigger, Piglet or Eeyore) and everyone goes "Oooh, it's Winnie-The-Pooh, it must be good!" and spends their hard earned cash on it.
In this case, take a bog-standard pile of shit and stick an X on it........
Maybe the old adage is wrong - perhaps it is actually possible to polish a turd.......
Posted by Just Pov on :
Thanks, Numf, I needed a laugh this morning!
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
One of the main reasons that Claremont (who, don’t get me wrong, is my favorite X-writer of all time) gets on my nerves still, is that he has basically three ways of writing women over the last twenty years:
1. The strong-willed, independent woman, leader, macho badass that doesn’t take any shit from no one, and usually for some reason gets along great with Wolverine, while making snippy comments to the other males and younger females. Every so often shows signs of being a lesbian. 2. The younger female, not quite so experienced, slighty shy but just bursting with sexuality every two pages, ends up naked every 3 issues and has some weird older brother/strange crush on Wolverine. 3. The ultra-badass, intentions never quite clear, lethal killer who occasionally shows signs of decent morality, although spends many pages silent and then is the only one to not get her ass totally kicked in battle (even though she doesn’t really have that strong a mutant power). Every so often shows signs of being a lesbian. Sexuality is a major weapon in her arsenal.
Sometimes though, he’ll combine 2 of the 3 (or all 3) when writing the characters, as he can’t quite remember which way he likes her. Go ahead, name an X-woman he wrote a lot of…you’ll see.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Of course, I just went through a bunch of them in my head to see if I can prove my own theory wrong. I found one notable:
Moira McTaggert.
Except, in the last 20 years, we saw little to none of her, saw her suddenly become a major league hottie under Silvestri and Lee’s designs, had her become all bad-ass (she was always strong, but still…), and then eventually, when Claremont saw that she just didn’t fit his 3 categories, he killed her!
Posted by Princess Crujectra on :
I don't mind too much that they brought her back. I liked her well enough, but I suppose at some point you have to draw the line and let the dead rest in peace.
What I can't understand is why everyone is suddenly hot for Ororo? I mean, Nightcrawler and Wolverine are both putting the moves on her in this issue (although I suppose that it could be interpretted that Storm is putting the moves on Logan... goodness knows why). And to add to it, now Rachel is suddenly after Kurt! These people have known each other for years. Why are they suddenly all falling for each other at the same time? Aren't things complicated enough in Casa X?
Posted by Just Pov on :
Maybe Emma's overdoing the mind-control she needs to turn Scott on, and it's affecting everyone else's libidos... Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
quote:Originally posted by Princess Crujectra: What I can't understand is why everyone is suddenly hot for Ororo? I mean, Nightcrawler and Wolverine are both putting the moves on her in this issue
From what I've seen, I took it to be Nightcrawler starting to think of Ororo in a more romantic way and taking note of how familiar Ororo and Logan act towards one another. I'd venture to say they're likely that affectionate all the time, but we're seeing their interactions through Kurt's eyes so it seems like a big deal because it's becoming a big deal to him.
Posted by icefire on :
Oh Gawd can't anyone stay dead?
Posted by Kinetix on :
Actually, Ororo and Kurt have been flirting for quite some time. I saw some of it in the early 100s of Uncanny.
I sort of like Rachel and Kurt, though. They have known each other for some time, it makes sense that there'd at least be a closeness there.
J
Posted by Princess Crujectra on :
I would definitely be open to a Kurt/Rachel pairing. I kinda miss Amanda Sefton, though, but I wouldn't mind it. I don't know why, but I have trouble seeing Ororo in any kind of relationship. She just doesn't feel like the relationship type somehow.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Cru, I'm kind of with you on that. I think that's largely Claremont's influence too. You know, I *might* be able to see her in a relationship, I just have no idea if any current MU character exists that I'd like to see with her.
I miss Amanda Sefton too. Her scenes with Kurt were always fun.
I'm also open to the idea of a Kurt/Rachel pairing. However, a Kurt/Ororo pairing makes me say "Eww!" for some reason. It's like kissing your sister!
Posted by Just Pov on :
Stay away from my sister, you!
So what happened to Amanda???
I vaguely remember a MAGIK mini that spun off from the Black Sun storyline, wherein it looked like she'd taken Illyanna's place in Limbo? Is that right?
Posted by ferroboy on :
Cobie, isn't the Kurt/Rachel thing like Rachel kissing her uncle? That is how she saw him while growing up in the DoFP timeline.
Posted by disaster boy on :
thats right ferro. he used to read her stories when she was little in her time.
Posted by Kinetix on :
Which might be part of why... She could have a lingering childhood crush on "Unca Kurt". And didn't she also kill him as a Hound?
Oh, the complications...
And Amanda is currently still Magik, and ruling Limbo. She's had some appearances in the Nightcrawler monthly. Which is actually not bad, despite being wholly unnecessary.
quote:Originally posted by Kinetix: Which might be part of why... She could have a lingering childhood crush on "Unca Kurt". And didn't she also kill him as a Hound?
Nah. Kurt and Amanda died when soldiers blew up the Mansion. Rachel was one of the few survivors.
Posted by ActorLad on :
quote:Originally posted by ferroboy:
quote:Originally posted by Kinetix: Which might be part of why... She could have a lingering childhood crush on "Unca Kurt". And didn't she also kill him as a Hound?
Nah. Kurt and Amanda died when soldiers blew up the Mansion. Rachel was one of the few survivors.
Actually the both of you are kind of right. Due to the Phoenix Force's futzing with her memories she did "remember" killing Kurt dispite what actually happened. Or D'spare caused it, I'd check the issues if I knew where they were. The point is that she did have a false memory of that happening at one time.
Posted by Kinetix on :
My entire Excalibur run is sitting right behind me. I should check.
Either way, there's angst, I'm sure.
Because she's an X-Man. =)
J
Posted by ferroboy on :
quote:Originally posted by Kinetix: My entire Excalibur run is sitting right behind me. I should check.
Either way, there's angst, I'm sure.
Because she's an X-Man. =)
J
Actually, what I was referring to appeared in, IIRC, a fairly early issue of New Mutants. I know Sienkiewicz was doing the art at the time.
Posted by disaster boy on :
i thought it was in uncanny xmen too. i remember j.romita jr. drawing kurt and amanda walking illyana to the bus stop and they all were shot.
the issue where they kill the dire wraiths at forge's and rachel freaks out later when she overhears that jean grey is dead.
Posted by disaster boy on :
well...the story line with betts is looking up. the part where she's in her mind and wondering why things don't look right got me curious. we will see i guess.
uncanny x-men 456.
Posted by Reboot on :
for #458
Posted by G-Man on :
I'm liking Betsy's budding relationship to X-23. I'm glad she's back. I'm curious what they're doing with Jamie Braddock -but Claremont is back in his bad habit of having plots on the backburners for months or years.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
I kind of liked this issue. I usually enjoy what stories I've read that are set in the Savage Land-- I tend to like Marvels' fictional settings like SL or Attilan or Wakanda.
For the first time, I took Brainchild seriously. He makes a fun opponent. Does Vertigo *ever* speak?
The whole dino-Rachel thing is kind of interesting, but at the same time quite annoying. Maybe she'll keep some aspect of the transformation once the whole shebang's over?
I like the way Psylocke's written so far. You can tell she's a favorite of Claremont. Though I *still* can't quite get over the body-switch thing from years and years ago...
I don't like Bishop's dialogue for some reason. Something about it just doesn't ring true.
I've read somewhere on the board that Cannonball and Magma are going to be featured in this X-title sometime soon. Hopefully, that won't be only in a pretend reality from HOUSE OF M. With any luck they'll be taking the place of X-23... who ain't doing a thing for me.
Posted by Polar Boy v2.0 on :
A couple of X-Men clips I think you'd get a chuckle out of.
Hysterical! The best part has to be Wolverine's Canadian accent!
Posted by G-Man on :
Those were great cartoons. My favorite part was Emma and Jean's confrontation. Now that's what I'd like to see in the comic. A good old fashioned (Dynasty -Alexis and Crystal) cat-fight.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
UNCANNY XMEN 460... spoilers
spoilers
spoilers
spoilers
spoilers
spoilers
spoilers
...in keeping with the title of this thread, Juggernaut and Nocturne make their return, joining Psylocke on the comeback squad. The other recent X-prodigal, Colossus guest stars here, too.
The reunion scenes were welcome, if somewhat curiously timed. If I were more of a Rachel fan, I'd be more excited about her extensive POV scenes.
In fact, Rachel, Bishop and X-23 bore me. Storm, Nightcrawler and Sage getting more emphasis would make me happier.
Ah, well-- with rumored post HOUSE OF ME membership shake-ups, it's all moot.
Posted by Kinetix on :
Ooooh, stuff with Rachel?
YAY!
Want my last two weeks of comics...
J
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
I care about Psylocke coming back about as much as I did about her dying -- zero. And is it me, or is Claremont referencing so many of his past stories starting to seem like, I dunno ... bumping up all your old threads that nobody's been posting in for a long time?
[ June 08, 2005, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: DrakeB3004 ]
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
#461--
No real spoilers... fans of Mojo and the XBabies will love this. There's good use of JUGGERNAUT, but that's about it.
Though I kind of enjoy some of Mojo's lines in his appearances-- and his general whackoness-- I've never liked mojoworld or Spiral, etc.
A little if this goes a loooonnngg way.
There're other old stories I'd rather they revisit if they're going to-- the X-characters on Asgard-- Oops, guess they can't (for awhile-- HEY! Why not a detailed tour of the Marvel Universe OLYMPUS!!) or Krakatoa-- or the Imperial Guard (this time with a clearer artist)...
[ June 16, 2005, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: Mystery Lad ]
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
#466 is out-- and CANNONBALL's back!!! Yay! WITH superpowers intact! AND he flirts with Psylocke!
If you're a Rachel/MARVEL GIRL fan, this is the issue for you. I'm not, so I was more excited by Sam's two pages. And I kind of like Psylocke (though I prefer the earlier Betsy).
I'm enjoying the giant Sentinels parked around X-Mansion. They're looming creepiness, but are also providing some humor. I don't much like the demutanted-thing-- though there seems to be a surge of energy accompanying it (and I don't mean the floating energy from the end of HOM).
Posted by Don Jorge del Oeste on :
Early Betsy rocked! I was very suprised they brought the ninja back. I've always liked Sam.
Posted by Caliente on :
SAM IS MY FAVORITE EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*coughs* Except, y'know, Wally... yeah...
But definitely favorite X-Man. Yay. He's not dead or powerless or on X-Force or with Cable or... yeah. I'll stop rambling now.
And yes. Early Betsy did rock. Hardcore. Ninja was neat too. w00t Hand~
Posted by Monkey Eater Lad on :
I prefer alive betsy to dead limboy one so, yeah! he didn't do much in that one x-force mini so glad sam's doing something. i was glad bobby didn't turn into a puddle when he was de-powered. or wait, was that the other book?
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
I've been checking in on this book, but Claremont hasn't grabbed me at all with it. It's a shame he's got Cannonball, I thought the kid outgrew the X-mansion when he hung out with the Xtreme team. At least he's getting air time tho' so that's good.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
UNCANNY X-MEN #467 is out with a story that is presented in an interesting, gripping manner. I admired it-- the conceit of it happening in a matter of seconds was a nice structure to aim for. Don't think it was quite pulled off, as several sequences and actions would've taken longer than the time allotted.
Fundamentally, though, it was a story I didn't want to read. At all. It did foster a bit more empathy for Rachel, a character who's convulted back-story keeps her at a distance from me as a reader. But the fate of a whole extended family was just too much. Especially since it's a family that's sort of been around the edges of things for decades.
Well-done, but did this story have to be told?
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
UNCANNY X-MEN #468
More Rachel. Apparently she's going to be a big focus for awhile. Didn't care much for the Shi'ar Death Guard, or whatever they were. At least they're named, but even that doesn't rescue them from being instantly forgettable. Why wouldn't Marvel utilize the Imperial Guard here? Copyrights on some of those characters must be due to lapse sometime soon.
LOVED seeing Cannonball actually cannonball into the forcefield/shield/dome/whatever it was.
The larger issue of the murder of the whole Grey family doesn't seem real yet. Too grim for the X-men, maybe?
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I'm a long-time Claremont fan, and I believe no one has ever captured the X-Men like him--not even Stan Lee or Roy Thomas. But I have to say...I can barely read these issues. They haven't been my cup of tea at all.
The *entire* Grey family massacred at one time--what the terrible early 1990's over the top in your face crappy Image artist shitty X-universe bloody grim and gritty bye bye supporting character nonsense is this?
Love that Sam is around (apparently about to leave for another title). I like Bishop too, even if the "Bishop's different. Bishop's a cop" bit is a little overdone. Is Sage gone for good, or returning? And Nightcrawler is in my top three favorite X-characters of all time.
I prefer Jean stay dead and gone so I like having Rachel around, confusing as her history is. I have a fondness for the character that I can't quite explain. Apparently, she'll be sticking around in Uncanny once Brubaker takes over from Claremont. Betsy, on the other hand, is leaving for Excalibur, FYI.
Brubaker is a great writer and I eagerly await his stories. Like I said, I'm a longtime Claremont fan, but I don't think I can take anymore of this run. Looking forward to a change with Brubaker, with what appears to be an exciting continuation of X-Men Deadly Genesis (and thus, the Third Summers Brother). Maybe this title will feature Havok then, since its going that route? Wouldn't mind seeing Silvestri art either if he could do a monthly for a long period of time without being late.
Posted by legionadventureman on :
Does Claremont hold the record for longest X-MAN scribe (not counting his break from the writing chores around 1991-1992)?
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Yup! Can't for the life of me tell you off-hand what it is though Posted by legionadventureman on :
For being the deviser of the most extended and/or convoluted/unresolved plot-lines ever? Posted by armsfalloffboy on :
I have defended Claremont innumerable times on these boards. As much as I love the Legion, Claremont's run up to the debut of the second title is to my mind the greatest writing achievement in comic book history.
But I can't even read X-Men anymore. It's crap--not just Claremont, but the whole damn thing. House of M? Indecipherable. I just don't care. I have every Uncanny X-Men comic book in one form or another from the Giant Size through the last issue, and will not buy any more until quality improves. Immensely. Marvel just depresses the hell out of me. How can you have so many great characters, such a rich imaginary universe, and be so shitty? Or have I, at 34, finally outgrown Marvel comics?
Posted by Spellbinder on :
I think the X-Men franchise has just suffered from what so many other comics franchises have suffered from: overexposure.
Back in the day, you had a single team title to look to for your monthly fix: Uncanny X-Men. The roster rotated from time to time, but there was a single storyline to follow at any given time.
Then, due to their popularity, there came a second X-Title. Well, now they could feature even more X-Men a time, so they split up into teams within the team.
Then there was also the splinter titles, like X-Factor and Excalibur. Even more of the X-Men, stretched out over even more titles and storylines.
Then there was specials, one-shots, limited series, solo series, and all the while the cast of characters was growing and growing, and there were crossovers, and characters appearing in multiple titles (and appearing in simultaneous missions to different places).
It just reached the point where the X-Men became a company all it's own, but unfortunately as they say, too many cooks spoil the soup. There were so many different creators involved, with so many different visions, that the franchise kinda capsized. It's become such a chore to wade through the X-Universe to figure out what's going on that it's no longer fun to read them.
The same thing has happened at DC, I think, what with the multiple Batman, Superman, Justice League, etc titles out there over the years. They take a good, solid concept, and try to wring as much out of it as possible, as quickly as possible, that they suffer over the long term.
More does not necessarily mean better, which I think is a lesson that is slowly being learned.
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by legionadventureman: Does Claremont hold the record for longest X-MAN scribe?
No, Terry Kavanagh does Posted by Mystery Lad on :
UNCANNY X-MEN #469
Well, news of Ed Brubaker taking over this title with a cast including Havok, Warpath, Nightcrawler and, possibly, Lorna will keep me buying. Unfortunately, I think Marvel Girl stays around, too.
Ah, well- at least her inclusion will apparently be leading to a big throwdown with the Imperial Guard. This time drawn by an artist that can handle a big, colorful cast. Unlike during Morrison's use of the Guard.
As for this issue? Whatever sympathy I'd mustered for Rachel is leeched away by her irresponsibility. She's never been an identifiable character, to me. She changes drastically in personality from issue to issue. Even when written by the same writer.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
UNCANNY X-MEN #470
Does anybody know exactly what it is these Death Commandos do? Super-power wise, I mean? Or even who they are? Does anybody care?
I really hope it's the *traditional* Imperial Guard that the X-men will be meeting up with/fighting in the upcoming Brubaker year-long arc.
More focus on Rachel. Yawn.
Again, Cannonball gets about three panels. They're fun panels, but still.
Posted by Stealth on :
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: Does anybody know exactly what it is these Death Commandos do? Super-power wise, I mean? Or even who they are? Does anybody care?
I really hope it's the *traditional* Imperial Guard that the X-men will be meeting up with/fighting in the upcoming Brubaker year-long arc.
I hope so, too.
I've often wondered whether Claremont cared about the Imperial Guard at all, or whether it was Dave Cockrum, John Byrne, and others over the years who were the ones who wanted to keep bringing them back.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
Not only do I not know who is who, but I can't really make out any of them. Bacchalo's art here is muddied, other than the birdman, I'm not sure what any of them look like. It doesn't bode well for his run on X-MEN.
As for Cannonball, whoopdeedo. His appearances just seem like set-up for the roster changes coming. His uniform bites, why the "C" on his chest? No one else has a chest emblem. The googles are okay, but all his hardware looks clunky. Give him the simple blue/gold he had just prior to AOA.
[ March 07, 2006, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: CJ Taylor ]
Posted by Caliente on :
Grrr! When did Bishop and Sam switch personalities?! These last few issues have really annoyed me because Sam is my favorite X-Man ever. Seriously. I'm so... so...
Just so annoyed. So bitter. So bored. So ready for Bru to take over, it's not even funny.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
Ahhhhh, Claremont finished his Marvel Girl arc. And I'm finished with this title. Sorry but the X-office has been doing some shoddy work following House of M.
Tan's work here merely points out the poor job Bacchalo has been doing recently. It's a shame he only did the last part of this 3 piece; we might have been able to get some idea of our "villains." Tho' the story started strong and ended rather weak, too quickly to really appreciate them. So maybe it's as much Claremount's responsibility.
Posted by Caliente on :
That pretty much says it all about this stupid, stupid arc. I hope Claremont chokes on his own spit and dies. Well, maybe not quite. But still!! Retire, damn it!!
Honestly, when is Bru coming? Sooo don't wanna read 'til then... ><
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by Caliente: Honestly, when is Bru coming? Sooo don't wanna read 'til then... ><
#475
quote:Originally posted by CJ Taylor: Tan's work here merely points out the poor job Bacchalo has been doing recently.
And the C-chestplate for Cannonball is Bachalo's design... which means he'll carry it over to his work on Carey's X-Men...
Never mind Claremont, WHY do they give Bachalo work? WHY?!
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
quote:Originally posted by Stealth:
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: Does anybody know exactly what it is these Death Commandos do? Super-power wise, I mean? Or even who they are? Does anybody care?
I really hope it's the *traditional* Imperial Guard that the X-men will be meeting up with/fighting in the upcoming Brubaker year-long arc.
I hope so, too.
I've often wondered whether Claremont cared about the Imperial Guard at all, or whether it was Dave Cockrum, John Byrne, and others over the years who were the ones who wanted to keep bringing them back.
Stealth, he's used the IG a bit in the End series'. But I haven't read them just looked through them real quick. I was waiting till they were all over and them reading them together.
Posted by Stealth on :
Yes, I know he did, but I think the only reason Claremont put the Imperial Guard in X-Men: The End was because he knew that a lot of fans wanted to see them in the "final" X-Men story, not because he likes them or enjoys writing them.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
I see the IG as the only really challenge the X-Men have ever faced. I mean as a team, they easily overwhelm Mags, Pocy, or anyone else they come across. And very few of the other teams they've squared off against have been as tough a challenge as when Claremont first introduced Glads and co.
Posted by Stealth on :
Correction: Claremont AND Cockrum introduced them.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
UNCANNY X-MEN 474
Y'know, this would've been a great FANTASTIC FOUR/X-MEN crossover premise. Why not make the most of the use of the FOURSAKEN? I kind of liked the visual of the FIRST FALLEN and his general kooky method of cleaning up the cosmos. That motivation made next to no sense, but it served to end the mystery of Psylocke's return. For that, it was worthwhile, I suppose.
and
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UNCANNY X-MEN ANNUAL #1
Well, Storm, nice to see you. Haven't recognized you for a *long* time. I liked this issue and it's use of Jean Grey in her Marvel Girl costume (I wish she'd come back in that guise-- let Phoenix pick on somebody else for awhile...), Forge and Kitty Pryde as Storm's interior sounding boards.
The plot of political bad guys in Africa was OK-- not as real world cognitive dissonance inducing as those types of stories sometimes are. It's a little convenient that the dictator turns out to be related to Storm-- but I can go with it. I liked seeing Storm connect with her mother's people. That's been a long time coming.
Guess I'll have to read the Black Panther/Storm wedding that's upcoming. Sure hope it's grander than the Luke Cage wedding from a few months ago. Given the folk involved, I'd guess it'd have to be.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
X-MEN 475 Yay! The return of the little heads around the Marvel cover box! Too bad, though, about the logo 'X' covering up one of the members.
Aside from that, this is the first issue of a run that I think could well bring back many readers who've abandoned the X-Men. (I know, I know-- it was the X-men that abandoned you/them.)
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Professor X, walking now, but no longer a telepath, assembles a team to head into outer space to find and 'fix' a mistake that the good prof made years ago. One that's recently resurfaced and made Xavier an outsider in the institute that he began.
His chosen team?
NIGHTCRAWLER: "So what fire are we jumping into next, then?" The line speaks for itself.
WARPATH: Chosen because he once hated Xavier, but got over it. He's now wielding a pair of 'pure vibranium blades' given to him by Storm. (Note: Xavier says, "Ororo will be happy to see her gift to you, at least, is being put to good use." Which means, to me, that Storm gave lots of folks gifts. Not just Warpath. Possibly everyone's got a pair of the blades. Or other vibranium goodies. Or Wakandan art or something. I've read lots of comments that fixated upon why Ororo would single out Warpath. I don't think she did.)
HAVOK: We aren't told/shown yet why Xavier chose Alex. It's self-evident that he accepted. The mistake Xavier's atoning for involves the long-running dangling plot of the third Summers brother. Xavier trained Vulcan (the third brother) years ago and kept his existence a secret from the his brothers and the other X-men. As a result, Xavier's on the outs with Scott, so I guess little brother's an acceptable replacement. I'd love it, though, if Alex was Xavier's first choice. I keep remembering that there was a period when Xavier had only two X-men at the mansion with him. I'd think that would result in a pretty close relationship for those three. One of the two X-men was Alex. And the other?
POLARIS: Lorna Dane, of course. Who seems sane and mostly balanced (finally!), though she finds her new Apocalypse-granted artificial magnetic powers harder to control than the mutant ones that were stripped from her in the events of HOUSE OF M/DECIMATION.
Lorna's the first character to appear-- indicating the possibility that she's going to be featured in this year-long X-men in space storyline. She's not an entirely willing participant. We'll see how that plays out. She's back to a uniform that's fairly similar to the first one she wore back in the '60's. Still the best look for, IMO.
Rounding out the cast: MARVEL GIRL: Rachel, not Jean. She's recently been targeted by Shi-ar commandos. Most of the Grey family was killed by them. Revenge on her mind? She says not, but I think we know what's coming.
Oh, yeah-- the issue closes with Xavier telling his little team that their first mission will be to steal a spaceship.
Cool issue. Well worth picking up, I think, if you've avoided the X-men for awhile and have any liking for the characters I've listed. Hints about future issues have included that there'll be a wedding and the warning that all the characters might not return to Earth the same or at all.
I'm quite excited about this run. The art looks great and Brubaker is on a roll. My one complaint is that there's a bit too much flashbacking, making the sequence of events a tad muddy.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
I liked it! I am a bit over Havok and Polaris to tell the truth. And poor Lorna suffers from that "getting too complicated" character. But ohwell. Alex I am guessing is in it cause of the Summer's brother stuff.
Besides that I really love the rest of the cast. I've always been a huge Warpath fan. Looks like he's gonna get his due with lots of cool scenes!
Huge Nightcrawler fan. (current costume...yuck). And I love Rachel as well. The Phoenix/Shiar stuff is gonna get crazy.
Also I just read Deadly Genesis as well the entire X-Men The End series. This storyline touches lots of both.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
Well, the twelve-issue 'Rise and Fall of the Shi'ar Empire' just concluded. It was an OK story with some good moments, but in the end, disappointing.
Key results:
Click Here For A Spoiler Xavier's got his mojo back. Corsair's dead, slain by his son, Vulcan. Who is now married to Deathbird and wears the crown of the Shi'ar Empire. Prof X, Warbird, Nightcrawler and Darwin are back on Earth, along with Hepzibah, who mourns her lover, Corsair. A reconfigured Starjammers now includes Havok, Polaris and Rachel Grey alongside the more traditional 'Jammers. They've vowed to 'take down Vulcan' and restore Lilandra to the throne. (With the editorial promise of 'being seen again soon'... Throw in some complex Imperial Guard members, a beat-down for the repulsive Vulcan and the breaking of that ridiculous giant sword-thingie that sucked the life out of this storyline and *I'm* there).
I don't know that I'd recommend this to non-fans, now that it's over and will soon be in TPB. If you're a big fan of Alex and Lorna, like I am, you might like seeing them apparently start the journey back to each other, but be warned, their scenes are few and far between. There *is* a good Imperial Guard battle in the middle of the run, but it gets a bit bloody for bloody's sake.
[ May 16, 2007, 08:44 PM: Message edited by: Mystery Lad ]
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
Mystery Lad, haven't read it yet but I've been enjoying Uncanny lots. Love the story and art plus characters.
That is a strange ending. I'm going to have to read it.
Posted by Stealth on :
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: Well, the twelve-issue 'Rise and Fall of the Shi'ar Empire' just concluded. It was an OK story with some good moments, but in the end, disappointing.
Key results:
Click Here For A Spoiler Xavier's got his mojo back. Corsair's dead, slain by his son, Vulcan. Who is now married to Deathbird and wears the crown of the Shi'ar Empire. Prof X, Warbird, Nightcrawler and Darwin are back on Earth, along with Hepzibah, who mourns her lover, Corsair. A reconfigured Starjammers now includes Havok, Polaris and Rachel Grey alongside the more traditional 'Jammers. They've vowed to 'take down Vulcan' and restore Lilandra to the throne. (With the editorial promise of 'being seen again soon'... Throw in some complex Imperial Guard members, a beat-down for the repulsive Vulcan and the breaking of that ridiculous giant sword-thingie that sucked the life out of this storyline and *I'm* there).
I don't know that I'd recommend this to non-fans, now that it's over and will soon be in TPB. If you're a big fan of Alex and Lorna, like I am, you might like seeing them apparently start the journey back to each other, but be warned, their scenes are few and far between. There *is* a good Imperial Guard battle in the middle of the run, but it gets a bit bloody for bloody's sake.
(Rant Alert)
I wouldn't recommend this story to anyone!
The only thing about it that I liked is that it turned me into a Warpath fangirl (previously, I'd only known him from his first appearance in that special issue of Uncanny X-Men from the Claremont/Romita era -- I never got into X-Force, which was, of course, where Warpath had made most of his earlier appearances.)
This story started out with such promise -- and I would say I liked it up to that last-page cliffhanger where the Imperial Guard are ordering Vulcan to surrender.
But the actual battle between the Imperial Guard and Vulcan? AAAAARGH! Brubaker KILLED OFF SMASHER! @^#$%&^&*! And Brubaker made the Guard look like amateurs. Instead of defeating Vulcan through teamwork, they were all struck down by him until only Gladiator was left. &^(&*^)*(**&*! And then, to add insult to injury, Brubaker had the Guard follow Vulcan and Deathbird, turning them into cowards (as one of the X-Men remarked!) I love the Imperial Guard, and I HATE what was done to them in this story!
And what did this story manage to do in the end?? It reset the status quo of the Shi'ar to the way it was circa 1984, and it killed off Corsair so that Havok could lead the Starjammers with Polaris by his side. ONCE AGAIN, Alex and Lorna get royally screwed by a writer -- heaven knows how many years it'll take before they're back on Earth where they belong.
IMO, Brubaker is yet another writer who is good at down-to-earth stuff like Captain America, but terrible at mainstream superhero teams. I'm dropping Uncanny X-Men from my pull list.
Posted by Arachne on :
quote:Originally posted by Stealth: (Rant Alert)
The only thing about it that I liked is that it turned me into a Warpath fangirl (previously, I'd only known him from his first appearance in that special issue of Uncanny X-Men from the Claremont/Romita era -- I never got into X-Force, which was, of course, where Warpath had made most of his earlier appearances.)
Really? What was so great about him? I was a big fan in the New Mutant days, but he bored me in X-Force.
Posted by Stealth on :
I haven't read any of his X-Force appearances, except for a second printing of X-Force # 1, which was awful. I haven't read any of his New Mutants appearances either, because my New Mutants collection is spotty on either side of the Claremont/Sinkiewicz run.
What made me a Warpath fangirl was how he was portrayed by Brubaker -- as a tough, self-confident warrior. It's the only thing that Brubaker got right, as far as I'm concerned.
Posted by Arachne on :
Good to know. Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
I'm a Warpath fan from his X-Force days. I just think John Francis Moore did a good job with him overall. The character never became a strong guy stereotype. I think Brubaker is expanding that. The guy is tough and a strong man but not the lumbering/slow minded big man we are used to.
And I'm tired of seeing the Imperial Guard as cannon fodder.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
You know I just read this earlier today. I liked it personally. Art sometimes forgives many things.
I expected a more epic battle. It was nice to see Havok, Phoenix, and Polaris take it to Vulcan. The Imperial Guard shouldn't have even been there. They suffer from the syndrome that many artists like to draw them and many writers don't know what to do with them.
Corsar dies? Sad. A mistake? In this issue having Havok replace him makes sense and sounds good. But in the long run? When a writer decides the space adventures are not for Alex? Who fills the void? That Shiar guy with the sword? Well he is really cool.
I love the art to this book! It just rocks! I love the lineup! I love Darwin! I loved the overall plot and character moments.
So Warpath and Hepzidah(sp)? She might be too much for him to handle. Lead him down a bad path? He's a big boy. Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
The new Starjammers look good. But who are the new Uncanny X-Men? Nightcrawler, Warpath, Darwin, Charlie, and Hep? Not sure that's my favorite lineup.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Am I bumping the wrong thread? I couldn't find another one for Uncanny. Perhaps there should be a 'catch-all' thread for the main three X-titles.
Well, I'm actually loving the current arc. Specifically, the latest issue with the Skids revelation.
I've always loved Skids, and may have had a slight crush on her in an earlier life, so the reveal was quite awesome for me. Click Here For A SpoilerShe is an agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. - I hope she joins this team, given its recent decrease in roster!
With Havok, Polaris and Rachel out of the picture for a bit (if anyone buys that mini let me know if its good), I'm enjoying Hepzibah sticking around and Caliban showing up. In addition to the person I mentioned in the spoiler joining, I don't mind Hepzibah staying, though Caliban is more a character I prefer on the outskirts.
Warpath is great and I'm enjoying seeing Storm back heavily with the X-Men, as her co-starring role in Black Panther and Fantastic Four mean little since both titles are an absolute failure in quality and content (needless to say, IMO). Nightcrawler and Prof X, while really not doing much right now, are also welcome, and I'm interested in what's next. I wish the Thing could have done more with them in the latest issue however.
In fact, I'm interested in how this relates to the current story in X-Men and the Messiah Complex, given that Magneto is being called for by the Morlocks. I've always liked the Morlocks, particularly Masque b/c he's such an outright bastard of an enemy.
I am glad that with both main teams changing and Astonishing coming to a close with Joss Whedon that we're getting a kind of 'transition phase' in the rosters where we see what the various X-Men are doing, rather than the traditional 'reshuffle' of the last few years where one issue suddenly the rosters are all changed and fixed.
Brubaker is by far Marvel's best writer right now as proven by Cap and Daredevil. This comic isn't quite as good as those comics, but I am enjoying it.
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Am I bumping the wrong thread?
Yes.
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I couldn't find another one for Uncanny.
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I've always loved Skids, and may have had a slight crush on her in an earlier life, so the reveal was quite awesome for me. Click Here For A SpoilerShe is an agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. - I hope she joins this team, given its recent decrease in roster!
Glossing over the "only good guy to join Apocalypse of her own free will in Blood of Apocalypse" (except Gambit, but...) thing, huh?
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I've always liked the Morlocks, particularly Masque b/c he's such an outright bastard of an enemy.
He was also very, very dead...
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Ooops Jillikers--how I'm supposed to keep track of two large threads? I could ask a mod to delete our posts and we could redo them in that other one 'Boot, if it'd keep things more in line...
...if not: So, where and when did Masque die?
Also, completely forgot about Skids in Blood of Apocalypse. Care to summarize? You know you're my encyclopedia for bits of the recent MU that I forget/can't keep track of. Is 'BoA' the Milligan story?
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Ooops Jillikers--how I'm supposed to keep track of two large threads? I could ask a mod to delete our posts and we could redo them in that other one 'Boot, if it'd keep things more in line...
The original post'll probably need to be slotted in somewhere, and that's the bigger difficulty. If that's already being done, it shouldn't be harder to add three or four posts than one, provided they can go at the very end (i.e., whatever you do, don't bump the long thread until they're merged). It's pretty much what's described here to a slightly different end.
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: So, where and when did Masque die?
X-Force #9. Shatterstar kills him on Cable's orders, since they said they'd kill him if he attacked again (plus, he started a fight that got Cannonball killed. Although he, much to his own and their surprise, Got Better soon after). He was run through with two double-bladed swords, thrown up in the air and down again. Lots of blood.
This then leads into all the Morlocks whose appearances were altered by him at some stage going insane (because, with him dead, they start to... degrade) and being taken to another dimension by Mikhail Rasputin.
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Also, completely forgot about Skids in Blood of Apocalypse. Care to summarize? You know you're my encyclopedia for bits of the recent MU that I forget/can't keep track of. Is 'BoA' the Milligan story?
Yeah. Polaris and Gazer got forced/brainwashed into being Horsemen, the legless Sunfire changed his mind but, when trying to save the altered Gazer, was bumped right back (he was the first to break free), while Gambit volunteered for the Horsemen treatment. Otherwise, Scalphunter [Marauder], Fever Pitch [Gene Nation] and Skids sided with 'Poccy of their own free will.
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) and b) the return of yet another dead character. I find it hard to be all oogly moogly over the art when the stories are so pedestrian.![[ROTFLMAO]](graemlins/rotflmao.gif)
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for #458
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