For me, it's got to be the new "Challengers of the Unknown" limited series. Horrible amateurish art, incomprehensible plot. Jack Kirby would roll over in his grave at seeing this piece of junk. (And to make matters worse, I have 4 issues so far, because I keep forgetting to tell my CBS that I don't want it anymore.)
Posted by Povicho on :
Marvel did a limited series in the 90's called STARBLAST.
Not even my love for Adam Warlock could get me to buy more than the first issue. The art was by veteran Herb Trimpe in that Liefeld-esque style he adopted towards the end of his career in an attempt to keep "current", and thus keep working.
Sad, sad, sad. And I couldn't tell you anything about the story.
Posted by MLLASH on :
The 90s is full of absolute CRAP Marvel stuff.
Semi, I dropped that CHALLS mini after the first horrible issue. I was actually taken aback by how bad it was.
Posted by MLLASH on :
It does, in fact, read like a crappy mid-90s comics.
Posted by Semi Radiant Fellow on :
Lash, I'd be glad to send you the other issues. I need someone to share the pain with. Posted by Kolefyre on :
The current Doom Patrol!
Posted by Shadow Kid on :
I love the current Doom Patrol. That four armed monkey man "Grunt" is a work of genius!
I have the entire run of "The Titans". I don't think there is a single not-awful issue in the entire run yet I never stopped buying it.
Posted by Amentep on :
When a local comic shop closed in the 90s I got three long boxes for $20 or something like that. But to fill the long boxes I chose a lot of questionable drek that I'm blanking on. Thankfully... Posted by MLLASH on :
quote:Originally posted by Semi Radiant Fellow: Lash, I'd be glad to send you the other issues. I need someone to share the pain with.
OUUUCH!
Posted by Cad Lad on :
Two Words: Alpha Flight.
As a canuck I had to try the new series. Man was it ever bad. I have not even been sucessful in my attempts to give the damn thing away. I'd light it on fire but I doubt it would even burn right!
Posted by minesurfer on :
X-Men around 98 or 99. I won't touch another X-Men comic ever it was that bad. Age of Apocolypse story line or something like that.
I found The Wanderers to be pretty boring. I can't say that I was all that happy with the five year gap stuff either.
Caveat: I haven't bought too much stuff outside of The Legion since the X-Men excursion so I don't have alot of titles to choose from.
[ September 21, 2004, 05:39 AM: Message edited by: minesurfer ]
Posted by Portfolio Boy II on :
I'll echo the sentiments on Challengers. I actually dropped it after issue one, although I had already pre-ordered #2.
I also never bothered to order the final issue of Seaguy. What an incomprehnsible mess that one was. And worse, I see Morrison chastising fans in the press for not "getting it."
Posted by MLLASH on :
Actually I've rather gotten into Alpha Flight this time and have enjoyed every issue thus far. It isn't as funny as SHE-HULK but it has at least one or two chuckle-y moments per issue, for me.
Posted by Reboot on :
Yeah, Lobdell's AF isn't anywhere near that bad.
For me: Crapuation Day. Awful art, nonsensical story, everyone out of character and Winick couldn't even get the frelling LINEUPS of the teams he was destroying right.
And, although I was given it rather than paid for it, I have to agree with Pov that Starblast was awful and wrecked the tail-end of Quasar.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Challengers of the Unknown is horrible. Semi is right, Kirby is rolling over in his grave.
The final issues of Superboy were absolute crap. Terrible.
Lots of shitty DC/Marvel titles in the 90's: Firebrand, Manhunter, Fate, Forceworks, and so many others. Who could forget the twenty Ghost Rider/Punisher/Spider-Man/Wolverine comics and mini's that would be out every month in the early 90's. And most of them were utter crap!
The worst comic run that I think I've ever read however, *has* to be the first 12 issues of the current Aquaman series. It's just that bad.
Posted by kid chaos on :
I recently bought a bunch of dollar-bin AVENGERS from the mid-nineties involving "The Crossing" cross-over event. I think my eye balls have cancer now.
And I must say that I thought the Wanderers series from the late eighties was pretty bad. I really tried to get into it, but found it utterly boring.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Avengers "The Crossing"...ugh...such utter crap...
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
Some of these send chills down the spine with bad memories!
My worst purchase was the entire set of The Invisibles, of which I'd read heaps of accolades. When I saw it on eBay, I went for it - and will never again buy that much stuff unseen. I know some people just loved it, but I thought it was unreadable - and I compounded the error by getting Anarchy for the Masses, which was supposed to explain the whole thing, and which just pissed me off.
I kinda liked Seaguy - but I really don't think it was very good.
Posted by rokk steady on :
I echo everyone here and name "Challengers" as the most sucky recent thing to come along in quite some time.
I also really hated the recent Catwoman/Batman Trail of A Gun thing from Ann Nocenti... absolutely terrible b/c it wasn't a story, it was a polemic, and not a particularly good one at that... and I pre-ordered BOTH crappy-ass prestige-format issues... AND she was preachin' to the choir to me b/c of my own experience with guns... couldn't they have at least marketed the story for what it was?.. yuck yuck yuck
Posted by Povicho on :
Has anyone mentioned the Larsen/Busiek DEFENDERS fiasco?
I still can't figure out how it got up to twelve issues. I managed to get up to number 8 before I finally had to throw in the towel.
I love the characters and the concept, and usually love Busiek's writing, so I gave this a chance to grow on me... it never did. Awful, awful, awful. Not even Carlos Pacheco's artwork on the follow-up(replacement?) series The Order could brng me back in for even a look.
You DO have to give 'em points for chutzpah, though... they apparently revelled in their shittiness. The blurb over the title on the cover of #8 reads: " 'The worst comic ever produced'--The Comic Journal"
It would've been funnier if it hadn't been so damn true! Posted by Kent on :
I loved the Invisibles. to each their own...
My list generally dates to the 80s (as I was more selective by the 90s): Sectaurs the Thing ROM Captain America Alter Ego All-Star Squadron (post-Ordway)
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by rokk steady: I echo everyone here and name "Challengers" as the most sucky recent thing to come along in quite some time.
I am now officially happy I passed on this.
For me, the most sucky recent thing to come along are Devin Grayson's recent issues of Nightwing, but I'm not buying that anymore, so maybe that doesn't count.
Posted by Blacula on :
I'm finding it hard to think of anything I've ever hated as much as Graduation Day!
A truly, truly horrid pile of sh!t that failed (and worse) on every single level! And I'm not even that much of a Donna Troy fan - it was just honestly THAT bad.
After that (and for pissing all over all the good work that Brad Meltzer and Kevin Smith did on Green Arrow) Judd Winnick officially became the first and only writer on my "Never Buy Anything By Again" list.
Posted by Kent on :
actually, Blacula indirectly reminded me of Another Nail, the most recent won't-flush-down I've picked up lately.
Posted by MLLASH on :
So... what's done nothing for you lately?
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Its been some time, but rereading this thread reminded me how bad Graduation Day was. It was probably the worst thing thats happened this decade.
If you don't count Countdown of course!!! Countdown is probably the single worst fiasco in the history of literature. Not since Agmar the Witch King's "Why its alright to eat little babies alive" circa 1130 A.D. has there been such a brutally horrible piece of crap.
But back to Graduation Day--it was so bad I decided to read The Titans East special and Titans #1 in the store, knowing that it was probably crap. Well, I was sure right! It was awful! First Titans ongoing comic in my lifetime I'm not picking up regularly!
Hm. Other really horrible series I bought...Supergirl is up there. Probably Supergirl is the biggest "how can this still be published?" comic of this era.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
Yeah- what a waste of Atom, Donna Troy, Trickster, Piper, Mary Marvel, Duela, Kamandi and even the New Gods COUNTDOWN was... it really should've been special and ended up anything but.
If it'd had a whiz-bang ending, the muddled middle would've been salvaged.
The glimmers of entertainment here and there sure don't make up for the tarnish now sticking to characters that I still really like, if a tad bit less.
Posted by MLLASH on :
Well, I'm *really* glad I dropped it at # 26 now... I had high hopes because 52 was so good (I *still* miss Isis and Osiris).
Yeah, and I finally dropped Supergirl a few months back and haven't regretted it at all.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
The creators of Countdown are a bunch of necrophiliacs when you consider what they did to the nostalgia for crossovers, which in truth was already pretty much dead.
Posted by Stealth on :
quote:Originally posted by Fat Cramer: My worst purchase was the entire set of The Invisibles, of which I'd read heaps of accolades. When I saw it on eBay, I went for it - and will never again buy that much stuff unseen. I know some people just loved it, but I thought it was unreadable - and I compounded the error by getting Anarchy for the Masses, which was supposed to explain the whole thing, and which just pissed me off.
I had a similar experience with another Vertigo series. Back in the 90s, I was in my late teens/early 20s and, as people in that age range often do, was trying desperately to be hip, so I bought a bunch of Sandman trades. I hated it. Hated, hated, hated it. I found it so pretentious and so impressed with itself and with so many moments of ugliness for the sake of ugliness and, most of all, so BORING! Ever since then, I've been suspicious of any comic that's labelled "hip," "edgy," or "ground-breaking."
Posted by MLLASH on :
Thank GAWD somebody said it. I'm one of those comic geeks that aren't "hip" enough for Vertigo either, I guess... I tried to get into Sandman and The Invisibles but it didn't take.
To me, Major Bummer or Ambush Bug or Young heroes in Love is hip and edgy, not that incomprehensible gibberish that Vertigo was publishing.
Posted by Lard Lad on :
I totally diagree, but I find it hilarious anyway that some people hated, or didn't get Gaiman's Sandman!
In fact I've been tempted lately to start a thread about the creators and stories that Stealth loathes because they're often so unexpected! Sandman? Kurt Busiek? Frank Miller's seminal works?
I'm not making fun of her at all, actually. Though I disagree with nearly every one, I find it refreshing that Stealth is unimpressed by people everyone else seems impressed by. I'm waiting for an Alan Moore or Alex Ross rant, Stealth! Posted by MLLASH on :
Now Alan Moore-- HE was hip and edgy.
Posted by Stealth on :
Heh.
I actually like Alan Moore, especially Swamp Thing.
Although I think Watchmen is wildly overrated and The Killing Joke is sick.
On the other hand, he's been deliberately going in the opposite direction since then, which is commendable.
And I love the first League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.
But I think the second one, and the recent LOEG Dossier, are both, to borrow a phrase from that side of the pond, "wank."
Overall, though, my likes outweigh my dislikes as far as Alan Moore is concerned.
I'll get to Alex Ross another time, but I can say, off the top of my head, that he's absolutely ruined JSA.
Lardy, your idea for that thread sounds like fun. We could call it "Judge Stealth's Comic Book Court," or something like that.
Posted by Pov on :
Only if you allow the Death Penalty for the trials of Liefeld and MacFarlane... Posted by Stealth on :
And Jim Lee.
Posted by Lard Lad on :
Do it, Stealth...but promise to focus on creators and stories that aren't normally criticized!!! I LOVE it when you do that!
(the Image guys are too easy!)
Posted by Stealth on :
I promise.
I guess I should also avoid polarizers like Giffen and Millar. God knows I've already posted plenty against them at Legion World alone.
So...who shall the first to go on trial be?
Stay tuned. Posted by Lard Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Stealth: I guess I should also avoid polarizers like Giffen and Millar. God knows I've already posted plenty against them at Legion World alone.
Polarizers are okay if they're like those guys and getting name-dropped constantly and selling titles like crazy!
Looking forward to it...
Posted by Stealth on :
quote:Originally posted by Lard Lad: Polarizers are okay if they're like those guys and getting name-dropped constantly and selling titles like crazy!
Oh, goody. That's gonna make it so much more fun.
Posted by profh0011 on :
"I guess I should also avoid polarizers"
Is that like when The Yellow Claw used a freeze-ray machine to kill someone and said they'd be "polarized" to death?
I know what you mean about Keith Giffen. I've taken to saying he may be the only artist I know who is on some fans' "most loved" AND "most hated" lists-- AT THE SAME TIME! (He's on mine...)
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Well, I loved Sandman.
Lash, I think you'd really enjoy Preacher if you ever get the chance to read it. Its definately more along the lines of Ambush Bug and the Heckler more than Sandman or anything else Vertigo.
I like Alan Moore too, a real lot. I pretty much enjoy 90% of what he's done, and I firmly stand behind Watchman. Its a crowning achievement. Its just so imitated thereafter that its hard not to look at it in that broader sense.
I generally like Busiek's work but there are times it falls short for me. Like Stealth, I agree to an extent about his Avengers run, and I was totally not enjoying his recent Superman run. Still, I loved Marvels, his brief run on Iron Man and I think Astro City is magnificent.
Miller is usually great IMO. I'll defend both Daredevil runs to my death, even though I'm aware several other Legion Worlders whose opinions I respect don't like them. Dark Knight Returns is a masterpiece, but suffers from the same problem as Watchman in its often imitated grim and gritty aftershocks. Ronin is amazing. His Daredevil mini-series with JR Jr. is superb. Robocop vs. Terminator? A masterpiece--best Robocop and best Terminator story I ever read. Sin City is ground-breaking and amazing and introduced me to crime comics for the first time when I was a teenager. Sure, his ASBaRtbw is absolutely a farce (and lets be honest, it must be deliberately so) and his DR2 was drivel, but the man has reached a point in his career where he's obviously writing for himself.
Giffen just rocks. People who don't like him should be taken behind the sheds and shot
Hm. Maybe we (or me ) could start a thread defending writers. First is Gerry Conway, then maybe Denny O'Neil. Those guys did put out some good stuff sometimes you know. Posted by Stealth on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Miller is usually great IMO. Sure, his ASBaRtbw is absolutely a farce (and lets be honest, it must be deliberately so) and his DR2 was drivel, but the man has reached a point in his career where he's obviously writing for himself.
There's nothing wrong with a veteran creator writing for himself, as long as he remembers that it's supposed to entertain people. And I'm not so sure that ASBaRtbw is a deliberate farce. I've already said this in another thread, but I think Miller has gone just as loony as Dave Sim.
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Hm. Maybe we (or me ) could start a thread defending writers. First is Gerry Conway, then maybe Denny O'Neil. Those guys did put out some good stuff sometimes you know.
This is so incredible. Earlier today, I had been thinking about doing something very similar. Conway and O'Neil are good choices. I would add Bob Harras and Alan Grant to the list.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I think it would be fun and I'd help you! I think all four are definitely good choices. Funny we've both been thinking of this...for about the longest while I've been thinking about how Gerry Conway gets a bad rap and yet I think he's actually done some pretty great stuff sometimes.
As for Miller, I think he's always somewhat been loony and that's been part of his genius. Its just be 'writing for himself' he no longer as any restraint when indulging in whatever craziness he feels like. And no one in the industry will tell him. So I can totally see him handing in his latest Batman script and enjoying the fact that editor is cringing and uncomfortable with it. Meanwhile, his movies and screen plays are heaviliy scrutinized and come out brillant. Part of me really enjoys the fact that All-Star Batman is so bad. Its like he's telling DC to 'fuck off' by giving them pretty much the opposite thing they intended the All-Star line for. Its so amusing! I've bought every issue just to laugh and complain and comment on it!
PS - you know I love me some Alan Grant and Bob Harris too! Add Louise Simonsin to that list, whose Superman: Man of Steel stories in the 90's with the Bog were some of my favorites.
Posted by rtvu2 on :
Countdown didn't do anything for me.
The new Infinity Inc...its just bad.
Watchmen and Killing Joke are both great books and still relevant today. Sandman is awesome!
Posted by Lard Lad on :
Alan Grant gets a bad rap? Seriously? Honestly, I've never heard any of that. I'd say his work on Batman is some of my favorite work by any writer on that character, and the magic he and Norm Breyfogle made together specifically is one of the most underrated collaborations in all of comics. In fact neither seems quite as strong alone as they are together! Maybe that's part of it?
In any case I've never felt anything I've read by Alan was anything approaching cringeworthy. I'd say Alan is a similar writer to Roger Stern stylistically and talentwise. I'd say that's high praise!
Posted by Stealth on :
quote:Originally posted by rtvu2: Watchmen and Killing Joke are both great books and still relevant today.
Care to elaborate?
Posted by Lance's realm on :
I read Watchmen for the first time just a few years ago. I picked up the trade at the library, and I thought it would be great. I was very, very disappointed. I didn't think much of it at all, and I still don't get why it was held in such high regard.
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
I was thoroughly blahed by Sinestro's War. Anyone care to defend? I still have the issues. Can anyone give me a reason to re-read?
Not being a great comics historian my opinion is probably bunk but for what it's worth, I think Watchman both filled a want and was and will be relevant.
It was I think the first Marvelisation of DC characters, with the names changed a bit and it was a return of JSA, with the names changed a bit and it was the "newcomers" with the names changed a bit. All these DC "elseworld" graphic novels of their characters in the real world that have been hits, were waiting for permission to be written, permission given by Watchmen.
Cold War and capitalists elements secretly running the real political show will probably always be relevant. Real life will never be about power in the hands of the little people, because "little people" rarely seem to know how to hold on to power for long. Elements of that era particularly were brought to readers that would have been babies during the slow death of the Cold War.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
Making sure I hadn't posted in here yet...
Rise of Arsenal #1. Big surprise.
Posted by Power Boy on :
Avengers: X-Sanction #1 (Cable hunts down the Avengers ... bizarro nonsense ... and ridiculously violent)
I read about half ... then skimmed ... saw Cable shoot an imprisoned Captain America in the head (sort of ... the panel went black) ... then put it down, I felt dirty and used, It turned me off the rest of the series and the upcoming X-Men versus Avengers event.
Posted by cleome45 on :
Ernie Colon's terrible comic called Manimal or something like that. (No connection with the TV show, as it preceded same by several years.) Some American Jewish dude gets werewolf-y superpowers because his parents were experimented on by Nazis or some crap like that. So he kills Nazis who have reintegrated into U.S. society under a new name. In a truly tasteful and Sensitive New Age Anti-Nazi moment, a gorgeous girl stops by Our Hero's apartment long enough to jump in the sack with him (for no apparent reason), and gets gunned down stark naked by a Nazi ten minutes later. (When you're less sensitive and more sadistic than the Bond-verse about the way you're treating women and their sexuality, Ernie Dude, you really need some damn therapy.)
I hope Ernie Colon was thoroughly ashamed of this faux political, utterly useless and shallow, crude piece of garbage. Twenty plus years later, I still wish I could have my two bucks back. Everything about it reeked. And I hope Deni Loubert at Renegade is still thoroughly ashamed of herself for publishing it, too.
[ March 17, 2012, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: cleome45 ]
Posted by cleome45 on :
quote:Originally posted by Stealth:
quote:Originally posted by Fat Cramer: My worst purchase was the entire set of The Invisibles, of which I'd read heaps of accolades. When I saw it on eBay, I went for it - and will never again buy that much stuff unseen. I know some people just loved it, but I thought it was unreadable - and I compounded the error by getting Anarchy for the Masses, which was supposed to explain the whole thing, and which just pissed me off.
I had a similar experience with another Vertigo series. Back in the 90s, I was in my late teens/early 20s and, as people in that age range often do, was trying desperately to be hip, so I bought a bunch of Sandman trades. I hated it. Hated, hated, hated it. I found it so pretentious and so impressed with itself and with so many moments of ugliness for the sake of ugliness and, most of all, so BORING! Ever since then, I've been suspicious of any comic that's labelled "hip," "edgy," or "ground-breaking."
With the exception of Mr. Punch (okay, but not Best GN ever) I have yet to read a single Neil Gaiman work that didn't make me want to bash my own skull in with a 2X4.
Posted by Quislet, Esq on :
For me:
Justice League: Cry for Justice. Especially at the end where Green Arrow kills Prometheus and says "justice". the whole story is a mess of bad writing.
Blackest Night and Brightest Day: Both went on for far too long.
Posted by Dev - Em on :
Youngblood. Pure and simple.
Posted by the Hermit on :
The first issue of Savage Hawkman. After reading it I immediately sent an e-mail to my CBS to take the book off my pull list. Ditto the new Blackhawk book.
Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
quote:Originally posted by cleome45: With the exception of Mr. Punch (okay, but not Best GN ever) I have yet to read a single Neil Gaiman work that didn't make me want to bash my own skull in with a 2X4.
I think he's one of those writers who's a lot better at self-promotion than at actual writing.
quote:Originally posted by Quislet, Esq.: Blackest Night
I didn't get past the first issue. I may possibly hate Blackest Night #1 even more than I hate any issue of Sandman. Even the A Game of You arc, which made me physically ill.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
You didn't like "A Game of You"? Can I ask why?
I'm not sounding snide, I'm really curious.
Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
I didn't like it because I felt Gaiman was patronizing toward both women and transwomen, especially the latter. Transwomen have it hard enough without some pretentious writer portraying them as unstable, insecure victims. Also, I hated Thessaly the witch. She's not only transphobic, she's also indirectly responsible for the death of Wanda, but no one ever calls her on it. Granted, that's very realistic, but it's more realism than I'm personally looking for from fantasy comic books.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
Look at it this way. Thessaly's a pretty cold, miserable person. She's the last of her people and she's essentially an immortal, and the only time she realizes she may have made a mistake was after she protected the person who put Morpheus's death in gear.
She's kind of like Hank Hill's war veteran dad Cotton on King of the Hill.
Or did I make a skewed observation.
Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
I never watched King of the Hill, so I couldn't say.
I haven't read any of her appearances beyond that one arc, but there was nothing there that made Thessaly's coldness and moroseness compelling to me, and I count that as a failure on Gaiman's part as a writer.
Posted by Viridis Lament on :
Brigade
Posted by gone on :
Oddly, I have mentioned this comic before on this board in the 'weirdest comic' thread. A friend gave me a hardbound copy containing the entire series, but I had bought a copy of the first issue myself some time earlier. It was called "Black Kiss". It turned out to be hardcore vampire porn and the vampire had a look-alike, pre-op, transgendered lackey. I will say no more on this subject.
Posted by Dave Hackett on :
quote:Originally posted by Fanfic Lady: I never watched King of the Hill, so I couldn't say.
I haven't read any of her appearances beyond that one arc, but there was nothing there that made Thessaly's coldness and moroseness compelling to me, and I count that as a failure on Gaiman's part as a writer.
Thassaly's not supposed to be a likable character though, which is exactly why she's the kind of girl Morpheus would fall for and then mope over when she does exactly what you'd expect her too. No character is given entirely short shrift though and she is a bit more sympathetic in Kindly Ones/the Wake, even though she's still horribly frustrating and wrong.
Posted by Power Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Viridis Lament: Brigade
pretty bad indeed. It was like .... some off brand random comics I used to pick up at the flea market in the early 80s .... or watching the 60s Fantastic Four cartoon.
Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
quote:Originally posted by Dave Hackett:
quote:Originally posted by Fanfic Lady: I never watched King of the Hill, so I couldn't say.
I haven't read any of her appearances beyond that one arc, but there was nothing there that made Thessaly's coldness and moroseness compelling to me, and I count that as a failure on Gaiman's part as a writer.
Thassaly's not supposed to be a likable character though, which is exactly why she's the kind of girl Morpheus would fall for and then mope over when she does exactly what you'd expect her too. No character is given entirely short shrift though and she is a bit more sympathetic in Kindly Ones/the Wake, even though she's still horribly frustrating and wrong.
Unlikable is fine. Unintersting and lacking in entertainment value, I can do without. As I've said before, I haven't read Sandman beyond that arc, and don't ever plan to.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Fanfic Lady:
quote:Originally posted by Dave Hackett:
quote:Originally posted by Fanfic Lady: I never watched King of the Hill, so I couldn't say.
I haven't read any of her appearances beyond that one arc, but there was nothing there that made Thessaly's coldness and moroseness compelling to me, and I count that as a failure on Gaiman's part as a writer.
Thassaly's not supposed to be a likable character though, which is exactly why she's the kind of girl Morpheus would fall for and then mope over when she does exactly what you'd expect her too. No character is given entirely short shrift though and she is a bit more sympathetic in Kindly Ones/the Wake, even though she's still horribly frustrating and wrong.
Unlikable is fine. Unintersting and lacking in entertainment value, I can do without. As I've said before, I haven't read Sandman beyond that arc, and don't ever plan to.
Uninteresting and lacking in entertainment value... you just described Cheshire...
Can we be best friends forever?
Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
quote:Originally posted by Sarcasm Kid: Uninteresting and lacking in entertainment value... you just described Cheshire...
Can we be best friends forever?
Absolutely! Posted by Chaim Mattis Keller on :
Just found this thread. My answer...Twilight, the prestige-format miniseries by Howard Chaykin featuring twisted versions of the old DC sci-fi characters. Horrible.
I'm a Sandman fan, but everyone has a right to their own tastes and opinions. However, I can't see that Thessaly in "A Game of You" is trans-phobic. She needed menstrual blood for her spell. Wanda, however feminine she may be by some modern definitions, can't produce that. That's "trans-phobic"?
Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
It's been years since I read that story. All I remember is that Thessaly didn't let Wanda come along on the journey and said something to the effect of "You're not a real woman." This led indirectly to Wanda's death. Did Thessaly actually state clearly that Wanda's inability to produce menstural blood made it an impossibility for her to go on the journey? If so, then I think you have a point. I still hate that story, though.
Posted by Chaim Mattis Keller on :
I'm rather certain that the menstrual blood (or "moon's blood", as they poetically called it) was an important part of what Thessaly was doing, because she was calling on powers from a moon goddess.
Still, I'll readily admit it wasn't the best Sandman story.
Posted by cleome45 on :
quote:Originally posted by Fanfic Lady: I think he's one of those writers who's a lot better at self-promotion than at actual writing.
That could be. What I get just about every single time I open one of his comics is an overwhelming sense of needless padding, staleness, and major self-congratulation. Also, I think his stories have some really effed up ideas about women. Well, that's true of a lot of writers, and he's certainly more subtle about it than, say, R.Crumb. But still. I get the feeling from some feminist fan spaces that you can't even BE a female comics fan without kneeling before the Sandman shrine. And I've tried and it's never gonna' happen.
[ March 19, 2012, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: cleome45 ]
Posted by Dave Hackett on :
quote:Originally posted by Fanfic Lady: It's been years since I read that story. All I remember is that Thessaly didn't let Wanda come along on the journey and said something to the effect of "You're not a real woman." This led indirectly to Wanda's death. Did Thessaly actually state clearly that Wanda's inability to produce menstural blood made it an impossibility for her to go on the journey? If so, then I think you have a point. I still hate that story, though.
I think that was part of the point, though. A Game of You is about identity, including sexual identity, and Wanda's gender plays a huge role in that. She's not physically a woman, so gets excluded, but she *IS* a woman when Death takes her. It's supposed to make you think about what makes us who we are, our physical nature, our self-perception or the perception of others? That's why the endign throws all perception out the window. Like Barbie, Wanda's in a transition, but obviously in a much more physical sense. The ending is so touching I still think about it all the time. Certainly my favorite Sandman arc.
Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
Cleome, I agree 100%, especially about the self-congratulation.
Dave, I think it's been clear long before this discussion that you and I generally have different ideas of what makes good entertainment. So let's leave it at that.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
"Cry For Justice" was pretty horrid.
Something truly horrible was "Iron Fist" -- before Matt Fraction worked his magic, there was a mini drawn by some anime wannabe hack - pretty awful dreck.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
First book of Frank Miller's second Dark Knight mini. Well, that and the rachael Pollock stuff onward on Doom Patrol.
Posted by Jerry on :
World War III for me.
Posted by Power Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Power Boy: Avengers: X-Sanction #1 (Cable hunts down the Avengers ... bizarro nonsense ... and ridiculously violent)
I read about half ... then skimmed ... saw Cable shoot an imprisoned Captain America in the head (sort of ... the panel went black) ... then put it down, I felt dirty and used, It turned me off the rest of the series and the upcoming X-Men versus Avengers event.
So I got Avengers vs. X-Men #1. ha! It's bad enough to go in this thread ... mainly for not making any sense.
Posted by cleome45 on :
Anything involving Cable or Deadpool makes my eye sockets itch and burn.
Posted by Power Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Power Boy:
quote:Originally posted by Power Boy: Avengers: X-Sanction #1 (Cable hunts down the Avengers ... bizarro nonsense ... and ridiculously violent)
I read about half ... then skimmed ... saw Cable shoot an imprisoned Captain America in the head (sort of ... the panel went black) ... then put it down, I felt dirty and used, It turned me off the rest of the series and the upcoming X-Men versus Avengers event.
So I got Avengers vs. X-Men #1. ha! It's bad enough to go in this thread ... mainly for not making any sense.
I'm ashamed to admit I bought number 2.
It's even worse than number 1 ... it makes less sense.
Iron Man takes out Emma Frost with some anti telepathic nanites or something ... even after there was a whole news article and press saying the advantage the X-Men had over the Avenger was telepaths ... and then Iron Man just takes her telepathy out in one panel. LOL!!!
Dr. Strange engages in the battle royale ... even though he probably could've just taken them all out in advance.
Click Here For A SpoilerScarlet Witch refrains from fighting ... 'cause they just had this same story but with her instead of the Phoenix ... so she's probably tired from playing the role of the mega powerful woman that everyone fights over.
John Romita Jr. can still draw some Wolverine though.
[ April 23, 2012, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: Power Boy ]
Posted by Power Boy on :
I narrowly avoided the ... Avengers vs. X-Men : Versus comic
It totally looks like Avengers vs. X-Men from the cover!!!
shady ... anyway the #1 made me suspicious and I read through it at the comic store ...
Click Here For A SpoilerIron Man defeats Magneto .... yeah right ... and Thing defeats Namor (In water no less) Can the thing even swim ... being made of rock??
FEH!
And it appears from the cover of #6 ... despite a dramatic bowing out of the fight in #2 , the Scarlet Witch will be involved.
weird.
Posted by Set on :
Ha, that page suggests 'Secret Wars II' as a related product you might be interested in if you like A vs. X!
I'd burn any link to Secret Wars II from the interwebs, if I was Marvel, and hope that everyone forgets it ever happened...
Posted by KidChaos on :
I stuck with the mid-nineties Gerard Jones Justice League America on a monthly basis until the bitter end.
Good mix of characters, but my God what a utter mess of crap:
-Power Girl's rapidly aging "let's never speak of him again" baby
-That weird scene where lesbian-Ice Maiden dresses up as Fire's dead best friend in the un-sexiest strip tease ever
-Other stuff I probably suppressed
The weird thing is thirteen-year old me totally dug the comic at the time.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Lol, thirteen year old me also dug that comic!
You had Blue Devil being made into an idiot.
Crimson Fox being killed and another Crimson Fox (her sister) showing up all of a sudden, totally taking her place as if little happened, complete with Metamorpho romance. Say what?
Artemis-as-Wonder Woman joins!
Obsidion tries to kill himself!
Little Pteradactyl dude is the major domo of the HQ. Maybe that wasn't so bad, it was just so random!
Posted by Power Boy on :
This sounds so wacky I may have to look it up ! I trailed off during 'Breakdowns' ...
Any hoo .... I bought Avengers vs. X-Men round 3
bwahahahahaha I know I know ... but somehow it is amusing me by how much it confuses me ...
Click Here For A SpoilerHope ran away at the end of the last issue (how else are they gonna bleed another few issues out of this story??) … THEN EVERYONE IS JUST STANDING AROUND (it's really funny) … X-Men and Avengers alike … Cyclops and Magik manage to dupe the Avengers and teleport away … searching for Hope
The one bit I found reasonable was Click Here For A SpoilerRachel Grey going behind Wolvie's back and helping Cyclops … I'm not sure how or why it was intended but it seems reaosnable to me that she would side with Hope since Wolvie previous gutted Rachel as Phoenix a long long time ago … and Rachel never had too many problems handling the Phoenix force .. so she would be more likely to side against Wolverine and trust that Hope could manage it … not that she's ever met Hope. (I hope (no pun intended) the writers spent as much time thinking about that moment as I did.
Back to the confusion ...
Click Here For A Spoilerover six pages of Captain America and Wolverine fighting. Wolverine gets chucked out of a plane. Cap wants to imprison Hope, Wolvie wants to gut her. And I think it was kinda messed up that Giant Man took out Wolverine from behind … Cap saying that he had the Avengers on his side …. FTW …. since when is Wolvie not just as much an Avenger? shady cliquey back stabbing ….
maybe all these guys are on too much steroids ...
file this one in the almost 'so bad it's good'.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I actually decided with #2 that I might keep collecting for the 'so bad its good' reasoning.
Wolverine deciding to kill Hope, with freaking Spider-Man by his side, brought the ridiculousness of his status as an Avenger to the forefront. The crazy thing is, it's kind of in character though taken to caricature levels. But it shows why he simply should not be an Avenger.
Also, I'm a big JR Jr fan, as many here know. But even I have to admit that he phoned in #2. The Avengers storming the beach scene? He must have done that in 30 minutes.
Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I'm a big JR Jr fan, as many here know. But even I have to admit that he phoned in #2. The Avengers storming the beach scene? He must have done that in 30 minutes.
Holy moley! Cobie actually criticized Junior!!!! But how can Junior possibly get any worse than Gumby Apocalypse from the Bendis/Junior Kang story? The mind boggles. Posted by Power Boy on :
well ... He only has 6 story writers and 1 script writer to please! bwahahahaha!
It's surprising so many people want to take credit for this ... and how text free it still is!!!
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Fanfic Lady:
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I'm a big JR Jr fan, as many here know. But even I have to admit that he phoned in #2. The Avengers storming the beach scene? He must have done that in 30 minutes.
Holy moley! Cobie actually criticized Junior!!!! But how can Junior possibly get any worse than Gumby Apocalypse from the Bendis/Junior Kang story? The mind boggles.
I'd say it's the worst 3-4 pages of his career. You can truly tell he was under the gun. I think Peebs is right--so many writers prob meant multi-rewrites. They probably picked JR Jr because of his rep for being fast for exactly this reason.
Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
Whatevs. He was rude to me at a convention in the 90s, so I take delight in anything negative about him.
Shouldn't the discussion of Avengers vs. X-Men continue in the All Avengers Thread?
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Wow, really! You always hear the usual 'nicest guy ever' bit about so many people but it's interesting to hear that about Romita Jr.
Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
It's not like I said to him, "I liked your early work better." He just seemed to infer that from what I handed him to sign. Very discourteous and unprofessional.
Posted by Power Boy on :
Avengers vs. X-Men #4
Dosn't Wolverine know that Polar Bears are a threatened species!
and then ... it was all for nothing ... Wolverine is azycray.
Posted by Power Boy on :
uh ... Avengers vs. X-Men 'round' 5.
new lows ...
I think I am even burnt out on making fun of this comic.
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