quote:Announced today during the Cup O' Joe panel at Wizard World Chicago (coverage to come shortly), Marvel Comics unveiled a new company initiative dubbed the Young Guns. Simply put, the company has identified six up-and-coming artists who will help pave the way of Marvel's future. CBR News spoke with Marvel Comics Editor-In-Chief Joe Quesada to learn more about the initiative, its origins and which artists make up the Young Guns.
"The Young Guns initiative is quite simple," Quesada told CBR News earlier this week. "Over the last year or so I've been noticing a wave of young artist coming through the door who just have this particular vibe, a certain energy, you know, that X factor that you just can't define, that makes a future superstar penciler. It's that magic that you feel when you first see someone like J. Scott Campbell or Travis Charest. You know these are talents who, with proper career management, will be the next super stars to drive fans to the stores, fill our books with excitement and keep retailer's registers ringing. To be quite honest I don't think I've seen a current wave of talent like this since the early nineties."
The artists making up the Young Guns are Jimmy Cheung, Olivier Copiel, David Finch, Trevor Hairsine, Adi Granov and Steve McNiven. Each artist is exclusive to Marvel. Quesada talked briefly about each artist.
"...I can't tell you how proud I am of this first group," said Quesada. "You'll also notice that a few of the names on this list aren't exactly brand new guys to the industry, so let me explain.
[snip]
"Olivier Copiel: Since day one at Marvel I coveted having this guy on our team. Another one of the best-kept secrets in comics. Olivier was working for another publisher and I kept shaking my head because I knew he was being miss cast and placed on books not worthy of his A list talent. Books that no one was reading. As soon as he became available we snapped him up and you've only seen the very tip of what he can do. His upcoming issues on Uncanny are going to be the breakthrough book he's needed.
Arrogant son of a bitch! If I wind up droping Marvel titles all together, it'll be because of the bastard running the place. Yeah, Olivier is good but he got that way by working on the Legion. You can't tell me, back when Legion of the Damned was being done, that Quesada would've give Olivier a second look.
He wants to call anything unworthy he needs to look at the crap they are going to be calling the Avengers or most of their X titles. Posted by MLLASH on :
joe q is doodoobrain!
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Well put, Lash.
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: Arrogant son of a bitch! If I wind up droping Marvel titles all together, it'll be because of the bastard running the place. Yeah, Olivier is good but he got that way by working on the Legion. You can't tell me, back when Legion of the Damned was being done, that Quesada would've give Olivier a second look.
He wants to call anything unworthy he needs to look at the crap they are going to be calling the Avengers or most of their X titles.
quote:DC VP Sales and Marketing Bob Wayne said: “It was mentioned at this panel that DC had turned down a Batman/Daredevil crossover, and that DC didn’t want to publish it. In the course of the conversation between Brian and me, it was clarified that actually DC would love to be able to co-publishing various projects with Marvel, but we’re looking for a change in Marvel’s management team prior to going ahead with any new projects.”
Asked if Bendis comments about DC President and Publisher Paul Levitz objection to doing the project specifically due to Marvel’s Editor in Chief Joe Quesada were what Wayne meant by “management team,” Wayne said, “I certainly wouldn’t want to argue with Brian. It seems that Brian would be a very astute observer. Again, we’d love to do a crossover with Marvel, but we’ll have to wait until there’s a change in management.”
Looks like DC agree with ye.
[ August 13, 2004, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: Sanity or Madness? ]
Posted by DrakeB3003 on :
Well, of course Quesada's gonna say that -- he's promoting Marvel after all.
And to be honest, he wasn't totally off-base. When Coipel and DnA signed on, remember that the Legion was on the cusp of being cancelled. "Legion Lost" helped bring the title back as a regular, but I don't think the numbers were necessarily stellar when "The Legion" debuted.
But I agree though, that it was his Legion work that made him who he is.
Posted by Dev Em on :
Wait till Grey sees this... Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Wasn't it Geoff John's influence that led to Coipel being hired by Marvel anyway? This "I always had my eye on him" kind of crap seems like massive revisionism.
Posted by Future on :
All I know is that this is the same Quesada who, initially started trimming down the 'X-line' because it was (and I agree, to an extent) too populated. So what's his answer now, years later, when the books are still selling? Solo series for everyone! Oy, my pockets. And dead means dead? Nah, that doesn't apply to big, super-star writers. This is one fellow who needs to stick to his guns on certain company issues and not be so up-tight while dealing with other, more multi-company events.
The ironic thing is, if these guys are so coveted, why keep spiriting them away to different books? I know Coipel has his scheduling problems, but they didn't even let him crank more than, what, two arcs out on Avengers before shipping him to Uncanny? I can see something similar happening to him there with how rotating artists have worked on that book. Coipel IS a good artist (I personally love his work), and I don't think he and Marvel's other "Young Guns" should be constantly shipped around to dazzle every book of their talent. Let them find their own niche, like it looks like Jim Cheung will get with "Young Avengers." ...unless he catches Marvel Penciller syndrome himself and leaves after the first story arc.
Just a rambling soapbox; I apologize. Hopefully I didn't sound too offensive to any Joe Q supporters.
Posted by Yellow Kid on :
I gotta agree, "not worthy" is a bit of a slur, and a man in Qesada's position should know better than to casually alienate his customers like that. Yet it IS modern advertising technique to rudely slander the competition while preaching the lowfat/locarb/added fiber wholsomeness of your own product. A sad thing isn't it?
I'll bet his Spiderman would look really cool. -Spiderman the Damned-
Posted by capt._dallas on :
Let me profess that I can admire aspects of Copiel's work, but I think it is ENORMOUSLY over-rated: his story-telling needs drastic improvement, and his anatomy is wildly inconsistent, even on the same page.
But regarding Quesada's comments...
quote: "Olivier Copiel: Since day one at Marvel I coveted having this guy on our team.
This is a poorly worded statement. Whose "day one"? Quesada's or Copiel's? Obviously, Quesada's "day one at Marvel" came way before Legion of the Damned. Does he mean then Copiel's "day one at Marvel"? How can you covet someone when he's already on your team? I guess Quesada means since Copiel's first work on "Legion of the Damned" (how about learning how to express yourself clearly, Joe?).
I'm willing to agree with EDE and regard this statement as revisionist..., but then again, maybe Quesada looked at Copiel's work on "Legion of the Damned" and "Legion Lost" and saw a diamond in the rough, someone who can be a star in the industry if given the appropriate book. It sure took Marvel long enough to sign Copiel exclusively to them.
If Quesada has been reading Copiel since "day one," does this mean that Quesada is in the habit of reading EVERY DC title? Why would he bother reading DC books that "no one was reading"?
quote:Olivier was working for another publisher and I kept shaking my head because I knew he was being miss cast and placed on books not worthy of his A list talent. Books that no one was reading.
On one hand, I dismiss this statement as typical Quesada pissing on DC, and typical Quesada stroking the egos of his artists.
And of course, the statement is going to rub us here at Legionworld the wrong way...,
but the statement is NOT inaccurate, really.
He's right. Sales on "Legion of the Damned" and "Legion Lost" and "The Legion" were relatively poor. Sanity produced the data a few months ago. No issue of "Legion of the Damned" sold more than 18,400 copies. No issue of "Legion Lost" sold more than 22,500 copies. No issue of "The Legion" drawn by Copiel sold more than 26,000 copies.
That's poor.
So, again, Quesada may have pissed on our favorite mag, but he isn't off-base.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I agree that the "nobody was reading" comment really wasn't that inaccurate, considering Legion sales.
What I find strange, however, is the notion that hot artists need to be put on the most popular titles. Aren't artists suppposed to draw in readers? If Coipel's so damn good, why does he have to be put on the title that everyone's already reading in order for anyone to notice what he's doing?
Posted by capt._dallas on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: If Coipel's so damn good, why does he have to be put on the title that everyone's already reading in order for anyone to notice what he's doing?
Yeah, I agree, but I can understand why publishers want to place "top talent" on their best books in order to maintain value and profit. Inversely, as a publisher, you wouldn't want to place inexperienced writers and artists on Batman or Superman or X-Men or Spider-man, would you? Yes, maybe the titles "sell themselves" to a great extent, but poor quality in story and art will drive readers away.
I love the stories from the late 60s and early 70s of artists asking to be assigned to the worst-selling books in order to see how much they can improve sales on those books. In the late 60s when Neal Adams moved from DC to Marvel, Stan Lee wanted him to draw Avengers, but Adams asked he first wanted to tackle their worst-selling book in order to get his feet wet in the "Marvel style." When Adams asked Lee what book was about to get cancelled, Lee responded, "X-Men." 'Nuff said.
Similarly in the early 70s, Jack Kirby attached himself to Jimmy Olson in order to prove to himself that his work can sell comics.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
quote:Originally posted by capt._dallas:
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: If Coipel's so damn good, why does he have to be put on the title that everyone's already reading in order for anyone to notice what he's doing?
Yeah, I agree, but I can understand why publishers want to place "top talent" on their best books in order to maintain value and profit. Inversely, as a publisher, you wouldn't want to place inexperienced writers and artists on Batman or Superman or X-Men or Spider-man, would you? Yes, maybe the titles "sell themselves" to a great extent, but poor quality in story and art will drive readers away.
Agreed. But note that that's exactly the opposite spin from which Joe Q is putting on the situation. He's not proclaiming the benefits as far as keeping Uncanny top notch, he's proclaiming it as a benefit for Coipel, to get his work the attention it deserves.
Posted by capt._dallas on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: He's not proclaiming the benefits as far as keeping Uncanny top notch, he's proclaiming it as a benefit for Coipel, to get his work the attention it deserves.
Good point.
Posted by Igee The Mighty on :
I guess in this day and age of moving to greener pastures, I can understand why Marvel would get Oli. Heck, the guy learned the ropes on the Legion issues he did. Just when he was getting better, Marvel swoops him in from under DC's noses. It wasn't as if DC was offering him an exclusive.
Thing is, Marvel has a knack for getting great artists. Trevor Hairsine, Stuart Immonen, the guy doing the DOC SPECTRUM mini-series, John Cassaday (tho not exclusively). I guess with most of their titles skating on thin ice as far as stories are concerned, it's much easier to divert people's attention by making something up like this "Young Guns" gimmick.
As always, time will tell.
Posted by Bicycle Repair Man on :
quote:Originally posted by capt._dallas: If Quesada has been reading Copiel since "day one," does this mean that Quesada is in the habit of reading EVERY DC title? Why would he bother reading DC books that "no one was reading"?
So he can be familiar with the work of writers and artists who aren't currently working for him, so he can decide if he wants them working for him if the opportunity some day arises (not intended as a blanket defense of Quesada, but studying the competition's talent belongs in the job description of EIC of a "work-for-hire" corporate publisher (the merits of "work-for-hire" corporate publishers being a whole 'nother debate, of course )).
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I bet he has lackeys who read that kind of stuff for him.
Posted by DrakeB3003 on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: What I find strange, however, is the notion that hot artists need to be put on the most popular titles. Aren't artists suppposed to draw in readers? If Coipel's so damn good, why does he have to be put on the title that everyone's already reading in order for anyone to notice what he's doing?
I think it's more like taking a hot artist and pairing them with high-profile characters. I mean, if DC had slapped Jim Lee on "Booster Gold", it wouldn't have sold the same as when he was put on "Batman". As much of a marketing ploy that it is, it's becuase fans love seeing great artists work on characters they already like. Unfortunately for us, Legion is mostly seen as a niche, which is why the big names to work on this title are usually the ones who weren't big when they started.
Posted by STU on :
Ironically, the book and story arc Marvel put Olivier on initially really didn't suit his talents. I thought the Legion did a much better job of showing off his abilities than the "Red Scare" (or whatever it was called) story arc of the Avengers.
In fact, I read more than a few criticisms of Olivier's art from folks who read Avengers, but had never seen his work on the Legion.
I only hope that his upcoming stuff on Uncanny really does give him the widespread appeal he deserves...
Posted by matlock on :
Any time I hear the phrase "Young Guns" I kind of get a little skeptical. Back around 1989 the Braves were promoting a nearly brand new pitching rotation of promising young arms they called the "Young Guns." Then they spent another 2 years getting the crap beat out of them, and only Tom Glavine went on to much of a career as a starter. We'll see how Marvel's version fares.
I can't take anything out of Quesada's mouth seriously. He's bought into the Marvel vs. DC concept waaaay too seriously.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I feel the same about Quesada's mouth. All his big suprises and amazing iniatives so far have left me high and dry...
Posted by Greybird on :
[Dev Em] { Wait till Grey sees this ... }
For what? To say that another arrogant Whoever's In Charge is back-dating his omniscience? We see that every day.
Coipel learned his craft with the Legion titles, and visibly improved during that time, and I don't begrudge him one particle of the attention and gigs he's received since then.
That he's one of the "hot young guns" of the industry is more than a stretch, though. That this was evident back when it looks like Joe Q wants to think he first noticed Coipel, well, that's preposterous. That the Legion titles don't sell "well," that's hardly disputed.
Bombast, truth, and puffery. Once again, what CEO or Guy In Charge doesn't put out such a combination, or have his flacks do it, every day? Quesada has abominable manners, but I've given up expecting any such decorum in our culture.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
quote:Originally posted by Greybird: [Dev Em] { Wait till Grey sees this ... }
For what? To say that another arrogant Whoever's In Charge is back-dating his omniscience? We see that every day.
Leave it to Grey to put it all in perspective and say it with style.
I attended the Chicago Con but skipped this panel. I'm glad I did, for I might have walked out upon hearing that remark. But a knee-jerk reaction doesn't alter the facts that the Legion wasn't selling well during Coipel's tenure, or that Quesada's blustery amounts to little more than masturbatory CEO lingo.
Next time we see Quesada at a con, we ought to do a Wayne and Garth routine for him: "We're not worthy! We're not worthy!" Posted by Kid Prime on :
Quesada's out the door in two years, mark my words. His inability to cash in on Marvel's movie prominence in its comics area is telling.
And if that's not enough, the shot of Cable on the cover of Liefeld's new X-Force #1 should be. "Let's do the time warp again!!!"
Posted by DrakeB3003 on :
I just ran across this in "The Legion Companion" last night from Mike Grell's interview:
TLC: A lot of artists have risen to prominence drawing the Legion. Do you have any thoeries as to why it's such a great launching pad for careers?
MG: I've got two answers for you: one is flip and the other is serious. Let me give you the flip one first,. They give the Legion to the young artists starting out because we're so grateful to get the work that we'll take anything, and it takes us a while to get smart enough to realize we've just been given the hardest book in the business to draw. That's the flip answer. The serious answer is that I strongly believe that the reason that the Legion has been at least partially instrumental in launching so many careers is that in the world of comics, there are no fans as loyal and deovoted as Legion fans. If they take you into their hearts, they're going to keep reminding you of the work that you did. They never forget, they always come back and they follow you on. They become interested and involved with creative people who are working on the book and they follow your career from that point on as long as you don't disappoint them and let them down. They're great.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
That's very touching of Mike Grell, and also very true.
I'm a Copiel fan now, just like I'm a Giffen, Cockrum, Grell, etc. fan.
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