I am having a very hard time thinking of a reason not to find Devin Grayson and set her fire for dealing so flippantly with such a serious issue as rape, not to mention making the main character of a book take backseat to character that is so obviously a Mary Sue. If the current story in the Nightwing books were a fanfic, people would be ripping it to shreds. It pains me that this is the published book, and that a writer can intend to spend 10 months portraying any hero, much less the character of Dick Grayson, as a weak-willed, submissive, meek, dominated worm. At least I can avoid fanfics where a beloved character gets tortured and raped by thinly-veiled self-representations; that this can happen in the canon book feels like a betrayal. It makes me physically ill. Never has anything in a comic book made me so angry, or so frustrated.
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
I haven't been reading the series, FL, but it certainly does sound like a strange and unpalatable twist for such a character. If you feel strongly about this, perhaps a letter to the DC editor in question is appropriate. With message boards replacing letters, I wonder how much direct feedback the company gets - and to what extent they read any message boards.
Rape is a sad fact of life and the comic book world shouldn't necessarily be immune to it - but it's all in the portrayal. Comic sales may be down, but shock value tactics could do more to destroy than help a series.
It's a bit odd that both Identity Crisis #2 and this book are dealing with rape. Are these mature reader books?
Posted by MLLASH on :
Devin was such a huge Nightwing fan and seemed to have a handle of him during her TITANS run.
Anyone care to provide specific details for what Devin's been doing to the character recently?
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Okay, lessee'...
She took what were second tier villians and make them fourth or fifth instead of making them really nasty.
She has dumped a major portion of his supporting cast and not replaced them.
She killed Soames, one of his best, most truly bizarre enemies.
She burned down Haly' Circus.
She blew up his apartment building.
She made him an ineffectual person, a waffler.
She had him stand by and watch as Tarantula killed Blockbuster (supposedly) with a bullet to the head.
She had him not take her into custody.
She had him instead fall apart on the roof of the building and have Tarantula rape him while he layed there with only feeble protests.
She had them run off somewhere, with copperhead showing up, and had him almost marry Tarantula, on to get a call from batman for the Wars crossover. He ran off smiling.
Oh, they had some cock and bull breakup with Babs as well.
I know it is a staple of comics that the hero is giving a truly tremendous amount of crap to angst over, but she was so heavy handed, and the portrayl's were so bad, many poster's over on NW have left the book.
Me included.
Posted by Pov on :
Rick summed it up pretty well.
I'm holding on for #100. But I've left the book before, at the end of Dixon's run... but that was mainly because of the art. Not that I'm liking the art on the book NOW, since Pat Zircher left, but it's mainly the writing that's got me scratching my head saying "WTF?! This ain't Nightwing!" Posted by Spellbinder on :
I'm on the verge of dropping the title as well. Admittedly, I've always preferred Nightwing in a team book, but I was sorta enjoying his title before Devin took over. Once Dick and Babs broke up, the book lost all interest for me. I don't think I've even opened the last two or three issues that I bought.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Is Devin taking a hatred of men (or a certain man) out on Dick? I mean, come on! This is one of the few heroes that can go toe to toe with Bats. Nightwing isn't second-rate punk like a lot of JLA back-ups. He'd have to be highly drugged or lobotomized for me to believe he put up with all of that.
And how does this affect him in the Outsiders? I have never read his own series but do sometimes pick up the Outsiders.
Posted by Varalent on :
Nightwing got berated by Jade in the most recent issue for not showing any leadership skills. Basically accused him of trying to get them killed.
So it looks as if Nightwing has been designated the current punching bag at DC.
I would have to agree with all the comments above. Dick has gone from being a super star to a slug. Don't think I'll be continuing to keep up with this one either unless something changes dramatically & quickly!
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I agree with everything said here. Nightwing is by far DC's worst comic book currently on the stands--mainly b/c it is destroying it's main character for no reason.
The only thing I'd add is that even before all this, Devin had Dick acting like some clown who couldn't take even the smallest clue from Babs that something was wrong. Since when is Dick a total uncaring, moron? Since the Tarrantula thing, he's been acting like a lost child, as if all those years under Batman and leading the Titans have made him no better a hero than Vibe or Changeling.
And Devin has killed off almost his *entire* supporting cast. Including the golden age Tarrantula!
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Hey, I'll tolerate no Gar bashing on my watch!
Maybe this isn't Dick? Maybe the real Dick was kidnapped and this is really Jason Todd. Yeah, that's the ticket!
Posted by Flannel Lass on :
Jason Todd is beefier. Also, he has a white streak in his bangs. They've been dropping hints that the adult Jason Todd we see Clayface emulate in the Hush story might be around for real - like finding his mask, and like his body being missing.
As for the break up with Babs, that was orchestrated by Tarantula, too - although I don't think Babs would really abandon him at such a rough time. I also don't believe that Bruce would not have contacted him after Haly's Circus burned down with him there, etc.
Even more than what is happening in the books, though, it's Devin's attitude towards it all that boils my blood. She has said that Dick Grayson is a person who will "fight you or fuck you" - does that sound like the brilliant-in-his-own-right detective-trained-by-Batman to you? Devin is ignoring 20 years of character development. She says she's writing this so he'll come into his own. He already has, and I frankly don't see how breaking him will do it again!
And since the book doesn't have a mature rating, while it was obvious that Tarantula fucked Dick, and it was obvious that he said no (dialogue bubble: "No"), not 100% of the readers got it - certainly the guys at Wizard Magazine didn't, because they asked if Babs (Oracle, formerly Batgirl, jfyi) would forgive him for what happened with Tarantula, and she said "Well, condsidering it was rape, I think she'll forgive him." This - she's just disrespectful - not just of Dick, but of anyone who has ever had to deal with the effects of rape in their lives, by being so flippant. It's ignorant.
Posted by matlock on :
Hasn't Dick Grayson "come into his own" or "emerged from Batman's shadow" enough times already? Going all the way back to the 70's when he went off to college? I can't say I've really followed the character lately, but I always liked it when he was portrayed as sort of having the skills of Batman but with social skills added in.
Oh and one question: a "Mary Sue" is when a writer uses a dummy character to inject themselves into a fanfic right?
[ July 30, 2004, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: matlock ]
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
REBOOT!!! Posted by Pov on :
Or at least have Dick wake up, walk in to the bathroom with Barbara and say, "I just had the weirdest dream!"
Bludhaven's near Dallas, right? Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by matlock: Oh and one question: a "Mary Sue" is when a writer uses a dummy character to inject themselves into a fanfic right?
Precisely.
Often said character will end up being dominant throughout, saving everybody's lives, having relationships with the main characters, you get the idea. Sometimes the Mary Sue even gets killed off, which leads to everyone standing and crying about how great he or she really was.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: Is Devin taking a hatred of men (or a certain man) out on Dick?
I don't think so.
She seems to honestly believe that the best way to character growth is by putting that character through hell.
Posted by Arachne on :
Here's a little article I wrote on Mary Sues a few years back, Matlock.
As for Nightwing, as a new Birds of Prey fan, I was considering whether or not I should pick up Nightwing too. After reading all this, I'll definitely be passing it by.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Outdoor Miner:
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: Is Devin taking a hatred of men (or a certain man) out on Dick?
I don't think so.
She seems to honestly believe that the best way to character growth is by putting that character through hell.
I don't understand how a character being treated so totally 'out of character' with his established traits being ignored can be called character growth. I do understand how heaping misery on top of misery can build character but she isn't writing him as Dick to begin with.
Is there even a glimmer of light for this Nightwing? Or does it just keep getting piled higher?
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: I don't understand how a character being treated so totally 'out of character' with his established traits being ignored can be called character growth. I do understand how heaping misery on top of misery can build character but she isn't writing him as Dick to begin with.
Is there even a glimmer of light for this Nightwing? Or does it just keep getting piled higher?
It's hard to say. Normally #100 would seem like a perfect issue to resolve all this but who knows? The War Games crossover may have extended the misery.
And I agree with you: The only way she could get Dick into this position to begin with is to ignore the character as he's been established. If anything, I suspect the "character growth" will put him right back where he already had been.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I'm sorry to get a bit off topic, but are there any other "Mary Sue's" that you guys can think of off the top of your heads? I'm curious, I've never heard the term before until this thread.
Posted by Pov on :
I think that's because the usually ARE a fanfic device, Des, and usually don't end up in an "official" story...
The editor on Nightwing really gave Devin too much freedom with all this. They BOTH need to go.
Posted by DrakeB3003 on :
I've never heard the term either, but I've always thought that Denny O'Neil turned Green Arrow into his "Mary Sue" during his much heralded "Hard Traveling Heroes" story arc with Green Lantern.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
I think GA was certainly O'Neil's mouthpiece, but I'm not sure he ever took the character all the way into Mary Sue territory. GA still had his share of flaws.
That was quite a nice article on the subject, Arachne.
Posted by Flannel Lass on :
well, the name for a male "Mary Sue" is "Wesley Crusher", sooo......
[ August 01, 2004, 01:18 AM: Message edited by: Flannel Lass ]
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
Here's the million dollar question: how would you salvage this series? Personally, I would be quite baffled as to how to restore Nightwing.
I did read a Nightwing TPB, one of the early ones, and was quite surprised to see he'd been turned into a cop - but thought it provided a great platform for storytelling. If you wanted to put a character through hell, it seems that having someone as exceptional as Dick Grayson have to fit in with "ordinary" people - and likely some corrupt and incompetent members of the force - would provide plenty of opportunity.
Not to mention that, distance himself as he will, he will always be in the shadow of that brilliant, driven weirdo who trained him. Any of his interactions with other superheroes would always have this theme in the background, and I would think that's something of a hell to live with.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
My solution...
Marv Wolfman.
This is, after all, the man that created the character that we all loved enough to call for his own book out of titans. I don't think any other character, not even wally, got that call in the sheer numbers that Dick did.
I'm sure that if Devin is gone, Shreik will put his fav Winnick on it. That guarantees that i wont be back. He has already cost me GA, Outsiders, and now Bats. But, im not the editor.
If not Marv, then i would put another writer that has a good grasp of the elements of storytelling. It seems that a lot of writers these days can't tell a good, coherent, ingrossing without being gross story from the beginning of the arc to the end.
What we don't need is the 73rd rehashing of Dick Battling to get out from under Bruce's shadow. He simply needs to BE it. The rest will follow.
Every person has their ideas about what to do with a character. I certainly have mine. But the dif is in the execution. And unfortunately, if the book doesn't pick up, i think execution is the right word for it.
Posted by Varalent on :
I would get rid of Tarantula by having Dick come to his senses and arrest her for murder. She could come back later as a great nemesis for him. Then I would bring Steph in as a partner for him. She's already left the roll of Spoiler behind, and now Robin as well. She could become the new Flamebird to reboot that classic Silver Age team. That is, of course, assuming that Tim is slated to return to his Robin identity. If not, I would much prefer to see him become Dick's partner. They already have a great relationship and would work extremely well together.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I agree about Dick arresting Tarrantula for murder, that needs to be the first step.
I'd also bring back the cop aspect of the series, which was a really cool element that Dixon introduced, although Devin has destroyed by Amy finding out he's Nightwing and kicking him off the force.
Since most of his supporting cast is dead, I'd bring Clancy back in (she had a brief cameo recently), and introduce a few others.
I totally agree with Rick: Dick is OUT of Bruce's shadow. It should be over and done with. I'm tired of reading about it.
And now Dick needs new threats, since Blockbuster is dead and Devin pretty much made most of his enemies fifth stringers.
And all this is only how to start getting the series to what it was. It needs good art, good storytelling and a new 'feel' to it to wash the bad taste from everyone's mouth.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
I keep thinking that there must be some plot twist ahead that will at least partly redeem the last few issues.
I thought Devin Grayson had a good handle on Nightwing when she first started writing the title. I liked the new cop she introduced... and I liked her take on the female chief.
Then she essentially removed them all from the regular cast?! Huh?
And blew up HAILEY'S CIRCUS! I hate that even more than the rape-- creepy as that is.
It's all supposed to come to a head by issue 100, but is there going to be anything left to read in this series besides an emasculated lead character?
I will say that if Tarantula becomes an antagonist for Dick-- these events *would* make for a compelling 'backdrop'. I think she'll probably take Huntress' and Spoiler's place as the 'outcast female' apparently now requisite for the ever-growing 'Bat family'. I hope I'm wrong-- much as I don't want to see the Tarantula name/legacy 'tarnished', effective villainesses are few and far between.
She could be one.
But it'll have to start with Dick coming out of his fog and arresting her. I almost want to see him beat the tar out of her, but that'd just reflect badly on him.
Followed by the inevitable rebuilding period...
... Hailey's will be sent out on the road again, Dick'll build a new apartment building, his relationship with the Bludhaven Police Department will change...
... maybe Blockbuster will 'come back' from the dead. Y'know... he would've been a good candidate as a past recipient of the 'Zatanna Special' introduced in IDENTITY CRISIS.
I like enough about all the background stuff that I'll keep reading... though I admit it's essentially 'rubbernecking'. I wonder how the heck things are gonna turn out for Dick.
Todd
Posted by Comet King on :
But hasn't Devin already proved she doesnt give a crap about established characterisation with her jaw-droppingly bad turn on Titans? What she did with Starfire was bad enough.
She's also said in numerous interviews (at the time and before) that she identifies with Dick Grayson (isn't her writing name a pseudonym?) So whatever's going on in her personal life is presumably right down the dumper.
It's a miracle she's still got a job, it all sounds so desperate and try hard!
(On a more practical level though, how did the rape happen then? Like. I mean. Y'know... if he didn't want to etc...)
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by rickshaw1: Marv Wolfman.
Maybe.
His last few years on Titans were jaw-droppingly bad, and did the Dick Grayson character no favors. Enough time has passed, though, that he might have a fresh perspective.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by Comet King: (On a more practical level though, how did the rape happen then? Like. I mean. Y'know... if he didn't want to etc...)
He had a breakdown after walking away and allowing Tarantula to murder Blockbuster. He was mentally unable to summon up the effort to fight her off.
(The body, I'm told, can respond to stimului regardless of the space the mind is in at the time. Which is why the rape would be possible under these conditions.)
Posted by STU on :
Ah, that explains it. I thought she'd violated him with an implement. (Actually, I didn't know Tarantula's gender until reading the above post.)
I wonder if there'll be an "I'm pregnant with Nightwing's child" story arc in the future?
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by STU: I wonder if there'll be an "I'm pregnant with Nightwing's child" story arc in the future?
Wouldn't surprise me at all.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Agh, I hadn't considered that. Looks like things *can* get worse.
Posted by Flannel Lass on :
AGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! NO! No child, no please GOD I MEAN YOU SETEKH, NO CHILD OH DEITY OF BARRENNESS!!! Strike the bitch dead with thy mighty spear, oh mighty and terrible LORD!!!
*pant*
Anyway, here's a link to a preview of the next book of Nightwing, which is part of the War Games multibook storyarc, ad YAY Bruce doesn't disappoint me!! Good flying mousie! *pets the bat* Good die fledermausmann!! http://www.popcultureshock.com/reviews.php?id=3166 Posted by Tai'Chara on :
Taking a break from my Jason Todd conspiracy theories --
*grins evilly at Flannel Lass*
-- to concur wholeheartedly with just how bloody twisted Devin Greyson has made the Nightwing book.
Ye shining hells, if she were a fanwriter she would be flambe by now. Mary-Sue writing at its worst, combined with reams upon reams of pointless -- and disturbing! -- character torment ... geh.
In an ideal world, Tarantula will get arrested. Or killed off during War Games -- that would be nice, too. Unfortunately, putting Nightwing back together again might be more of an undertaking than can be logically done at this point ...
The fact that DC seems to be blithely allowing yon writer to get away with this kind of travesty despite massive fan outrage is disturbing. Even to this Legion fan, who should maybe be used to it. Then again, what has been written in Nightwing lately bothers me on a deeper level than even Legion Lost -- and that really gets to me, even now ...
Good to see that Batman still has nice sharp eyes. There may be hope yet. From Batman, no less. *shakes head wonderingly*
Hm. *conspirator mode on* Maybe if Jason comes back, he kills Tarantula slowly and messily. There's a strange kind of justice there that gives me a nice warm evil feeling ...
Tai
(edited to try and minimize spoilers, at least ...)
[ August 04, 2004, 01:51 AM: Message edited by: Tai'Chara ]
Posted by snowsparkle on :
If you've never read this, and maybe aren't familiar with all of the character's history, here is an interesting essay which refers to the changes made in Dick Grayson... Pre-Tarantula.
[ August 04, 2004, 02:38 AM: Message edited by: snowsparkle ]
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Hm, very interesting article snowsparkle.
I never really thought much about the difference in Dick from the 80's Titans and his 90's solo series, but there does seem to be some disconnect.
Grayson's current run on the book has only made it much, much worse.
Posted by Dev Em on :
Glad I don't read this anymore.
Anyone else getting disturbed by all the rape happening in the DCU?
Posted by Miss Terious on :
quote:Originally posted by Varalent: I would get rid of Tarantula by having Dick come to his senses and arrest her for murder. She could come back later as a great nemesis for him. Then I would bring Steph in as a partner for him. She's already left the roll of Spoiler behind, and now Robin as well. She could become the new Flamebird to reboot that classic Silver Age team. That is, of course, assuming that Tim is slated to return to his Robin identity. If not, I would much prefer to see him become Dick's partner. They already have a great relationship and would work extremely well together.
I haven't followed Nightwing for some time now and am glad to be missing out on this Tarantula mess (though Wolfman's Dick Grayson will ALWAYS be my greatest non-Legion love *hee hee*.
I must say though, Vee, your idea to put Stephanie in the role of Nightwing's sidekick as a Flamebird II is sheer genius. And it strikes me as odd that the writer can't think of something as apropos as this, which would delight fans, rather than such an out-of-character, Chuck Austen-level of doggy dung that no one likes. Posted by Blacula on :
That was a great article snowsparkle. It really is tragic how badly some writers have mangled some classic DC characters. Not only Dick Grayson but also Roy Harper. Back when he was Speedy he was my favourite character in all of comics and I would've bought anything that had even the slightest mention of him in it. ... The fact that now I don't even flick through Outsiders at the shop says it all really.
Posted by snowsparkle on :
I don't think we'll be seeing Stephanie as a Flamebird anytime soon, given as Flamebird is still operating off and on on the West Coast - Bette Hall, the way way waaaaay back original Batgirl.
I, also, am unhappy with what's been going on with Roy. Even the art makes me itch - one of the best features Roy consistently had was his big, expressive eyes. Now he's a pinheaded squinty slutmonkey. It's really jarring to read Outsiders and then read Speedy back in the "Snowbirds Don't Fly" era, and I don't just mean the slang.
I've been wondering how Outsiders and Nightwing can possibly both be continuity. Perhaps some of Dick's behaviour with the team is related to what's going on in his own book, but I just don't see how there's enough time for there to be both happening.
I also wonder if everyone losing memory of who the Flash is (including the Flash) and Wally West subsequently dropping off the 'dar for two months or so is being accounted for in the books featuring Dick. The last time I remember seeing Wally anywhere near the Nightwing was the issue where (thanks to Tarantula's interference) Barbara broke up with Dick.
(Edited for spelling)
[ August 04, 2004, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: snowsparkle ]
Posted by Miss Terious on :
quote:Originally posted by snowsparkle: I don't think we'll be seeing Stephanie as a Flamebird anytime soon, given as Flamebird is still operating off and on on the West Coast - Bette Hall, the way way waaaaay back original Batgirl.
Her name is Bette Kane not Hall. And considering she's only dusted off for trademark purposes every so often, it wouldn't be hard to officially retire her and open the spot up to Steph. But even if Bette didn't retire, DC currently has 2 Flashes and 3 GLs - what's another Flamebird? Posted by snowsparkle on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Miss Terious: [QB Her name is Bette Kane not Hall. [/QB/QUOTE]
*scratches head in puzzlement* How did I manage that typo? I was just trying to figure out yesterday if she's meant to be related to Addy Kane (Jericho's mother). Thanks, Miss Terious, for pointing that out.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Did anyone catch the Nightwing 2-Parter in Flash recently? I thought that was a nice Nightwing story (by Geoff Johns of course) and a great chance to see Wally and Dick together.
Posted by snowsparkle on :
I intend to pick this up, personally. I had dropped Flash some time ago when funds were getting very tight and the stories weren't doing as much for me.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
I haven't been reading Flash either, but I did pick up that 2-parter. Not brilliant, but good reading.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by Dev Em: Anyone else getting disturbed by all the rape happening in the DCU?
Yes and no.
It's all in the execution, and it's possible for some compelling stories to be told using that theme. In Nightwing, it's just sordid. My jury's still out on IC, though things don't look promising right now.
If anything, I'm starting to wonder how these books got around the "Mature Readers" tag, especially IC.
Posted by STU on :
I thought they did that just by not being subject to the CCA or whatever authority is in charge currently.
If they don't have the little seal of approval on the front cover, I think they can do whatever they want -- and can use or not use a "mature readers" label at their whim.
Anyone know more about this?
Posted by DrakeB3003 on :
Has anyone else seen the fan-film trailer "Grayson"? It's at: TheForce.net
It has appearances by Batgirl, Superman, WonderWoman, Green Lantern, The Penguin, The Joker and The Riddler. Superherohype.com also has an interview with the filmmaker.
[ August 06, 2004, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: DrakeB3003 ]
Posted by STU on :
Is this by the same people who made the Batman: Dead End movie?
It looks like terrific stuff -- DC should be taking some tips!
Posted by DrakeB3003 on :
quote:Originally posted by STU: Is this by the same people who made the Batman: Dead End movie?
Nope - this is someone else.
Posted by Flannel Lass on :
quote:Originally posted by Outdoor Miner:
quote:Originally posted by Dev Em: Anyone else getting disturbed by all the rape happening in the DCU?
Yes and no.
It's all in the execution, and it's possible for some compelling stories to be told using that theme. In Nightwing, it's just sordid. My jury's still out on IC, though things don't look promising right now.
I thought they were a bit explicit with IC, but it was supposed to be upsetting. It should ALWAYS be upsetting, not casually thrown out there with ... *froths in the corner for a few minute*
It's showing up in the Flash books, too. Check out the new Mirror Master's backstory.
Posted by snowsparkle on :
Posting on the Marvel family in Outsiders thread, I had a thought.
I've been a little miffed that the Outsiders don't seem to be aware of things happening in the Teen Titans book - you would think they'd want to know that there's a new Ravager, for example.
But the thing that struck me is the return of the cult of Brother Blood. Dick Grayson is a perennial favourite target/victim of said cult; the idea that the cult is based around the demon Trigon is interesting, but doesn't explain why they were always so fascinated with Dick...
And I recall the storyline where Dick Grayson became moody, and taciturn, and surly, and not willing to communicate with/lashing out at his loved ones -- and it turned out that he'd been brainwashed by Brother Blood. The rest of the team didn't know, until the cult put in the final touches.
Now Brother Blood is back and Dick is acting...
I'm slashing smoke with this theory, I bet, but I just wonder if there's a bigger in-story reason..? Or is that too much to hope for?
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
I can see someone down the road using the Blood cult to explain Dick's behavior in a retcon.
But as for right now? I doubt Devin has that in mind.
Posted by Dev Em on :
It is a good way out though. Good thinking.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Well, i would take just about anything including the Dallas "shower scene" to get that dreck explained away and done with as quick as possible.
I was initially in favor of her writing the book. She had just come off writing Gotham Knights, and while some of the stories were a bit slow, they were pretty good.
Then this.
I thumbed through the latest issue they had open at the store, talk about excrement. He is suddenly at the top of his game again and protecting her fearing extortion by her?
UUUUUGGHHH!
I can understand why dc did the insert in that book for Sky Captain, anything to help it sell.
Could we please get a writer with some chops to come in, straighten this mess out, and fix the book?
Please?
Posted by matlock on :
So, did anyone else see the cover to # 99 yet? I don't think it looks too promising for Nightwing fans. You can see it at toonzone.net or anyplace else that puts up the DC solicits.
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
quote:Originally posted by STU: Is this by the same people who made the Batman: Dead End movie?
Nope - this is someone else.
But the guy who did Dead End has done World's Finest as a follow up. You can see it at The Force.net.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Just read the interview with Devin.
I say we kill Nightwing.
That will get her off the title and maybe we will have a chance to get someone that can tell a story in there.
Sorry, but the more i read from her interviews, the less i think she understands the character and has instead projected her own fantasies onto the character.
In another interview she said he either "fights or effs". What the hell? Dick Grayson was always about logic and reason. It was what made the dichotomy of his being young and outgoing work as robin. It was what was used so effectively in Marv and George's run.
Now he is just an emotional basket case. And i have to say that a lot of it seemed to stem from the Scarecrow issues at the start of Dixon's run.
Something has seemed a little off to me ever since then in his book. But the train left the tracks with Devin.
I liked her stuff on GK. I supported her on Nightwing when she started, even though i thought Marv should have gotten the job. But now i just cant wait to see her gone.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Rick summed it up pretty well. ![[No]](graemlins/shake.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Dreamer]](graemlins/Dreamer.gif)
I haven't followed Nightwing for some time now and am glad to be missing out on this Tarantula mess (though Wolfman's Dick Grayson will ALWAYS be my greatest non-Legion love *hee hee*. 
