#1 was okay for me - I don't know much astrology, I'm more interested to see what Giffen can do with creating a whole new world and Doran's art seems suited to this fantasy story. And I guess I should mention Wiacek on inks, Workman on letters and Kindzierski on the rather pastel colors....
There seems to be an overabundance of grapes and grape-shapes, which annoyed me, just because they were everywhere.
The story was background establishment but gave us some insight into the world and, I guess, one of the leading characters. This guy was from the house of Virgo, and this is Virgo's month, so I wonder if each month 's issue will focus on the sign appropriate to it.
I wasn't faint with joy and excitement, but I'll buy Issue #2.
[ December 12, 2003, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Lightning Lad ]
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Just finished reading it. Great art by Doran, much better than what I saw in Orbiter. I wasn't sure what you meant by the grapes until I got to the final few pages. It was a bit much.
Keith's story was a little drawn out I think. Maybe it could have been told in half the time and got us to the wedding to set up the next issue better.
I'll keep on reading and hope for a quicker paced book next time around. And I wasn't aware this was an on-going. I thought it was going to be a maxi.
Posted by Sonnie Boy on :
I laughed at the Virgan characters attitude - I have a Virgan "friend" who is SO similar it's frightening!!
Loved the art and colours too, their subtlety is a welcome change from my usual monthly IYF fare...
Giffen has started with a recap of this counter earth's history so I hope so he'll probably start really going for it next month.
I agree with you Cramer that it wasn't the most excitement I've read this month but as I'm a Giff fan so I'm on board next month.
Posted by Danny Blaine on :
Im pretty excited to be getting this. Hopefully. my next shipment will be mailed this week...
Posted by Arachne on :
Damn it! I looked for this last Wednesday and couldn't find it.
[sigh] Hopefuly I'll be able to get it this week.
Posted by Estimate Lad on :
I'd better say this up-front but I was a wee bit dubious about this book. I'm not to keen on Astrology and the whole premise sounded well dodgy to me!
However the fact the Giffen was writing the book, and by claiming that Reign of the Zodiac was going to have even more depth to it than 5 Year Later he convinced me enough to for it to go onto my shopping list.
So #1 was a complete change of pace from usual comics I buy. Very wordy and initially hard to follow as on the first reading you don't know who as talking to who. I re-read it immediately and found that the second time it was easier to understand. I did expect a fair bit of exposition in #1, after all this isn't just story-telling this is a new world they're building.
Anyway I cannot fault the art, and I'm sure once the story shifts up a gear I'll appreciate Zodiac more fully.
So...good solid first issue with excellent art and the promise of lot's on intrigue and excitement to come. That's enough for me to pick it up for the first 4/5 months. I just hope that Reign of the Zodiac lives up to the potential it obviously has.
Posted by rokk steady on :
Although I am certainly on board b/c of Doran's art, b/c I trust Giffen and b/c I want to see the world they can create together, I was not terribly impressed with the first issue. I thought it was jarring to have that (constantly interrupted) conversation open the book, partly b/c the colors on the word balloons were very similar and I couldn't always figure out who was speaking. On the other hand, the fact that it was Virgos having such a conversation was kinda funny, b/c it reminded me of a Virgo ex-bf, so I guess they scored points there. I'm still eager to read more; just not as impressed with the first issue as I'd hoped.
Posted by Arachne on :
Found it.
I really enjoyed this, maybe because I didn't have many expectations when I read it as some others here. The art was gorgeous, and the story gave us quite a bit of background on the world as well as insight into two main, I assume, characters. I agree that the colouring on the naration boxes could have been better.
I wonder if this was at all inspired by Amethyst. The set up reminds me of that title, and Giffen was the last writer on it...
Posted by Suddenly Seymour on :
I had been thinking about getting this because of the concept -- reminded me of Amethyst, though Keith certainly didn't do that character any favors. I couldn't care less about Keith, and the reason I initially decided to skip it was because Colleen Doran was drawing. Everything I'd ever seen of hers looked like the people had spiders for eyes because she seems to have an eyelash fetish, and I could barely tell her men from her women.
But then I was exploring a new comic shop while on break from jury duty, and I picked it up. Wow! The art was great. I couldn't believe it was her. So I went ahead and grabbed it. Unfortunately, I found it rather boring. And it didn't help that the narration boxes were so similarly colored and, in at least two panels, incorrectly colored, I'm pretty sure.
So I doubt I'll get No. 2.
Eric
[ September 04, 2003, 05:12 AM: Message edited by: Suddenly Seymour ]
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
Love the art and the concept, but also found it boring. I will pick up a couple more issues. With Giffen I know his writing can take several readings in context and then it either stinks or is amazing. I can also seeing need to hit the message board to pick up on astrology references with which I am not familiar.
He could have given us more first issue reasons to give a darn about the characters or the worlds.
I thought the dialog boring and uneven, switching between old earth and contemporary. Throwing in contemporary phrases such as "shock and awe" withdrew me from the world, which he was trying to create.
Posted by MLLASH on :
Just finished it...
Liked Doran's art of course.
Admit to growing bored with the backstory-- it ended JUST in time-- and once I was made witness to the current reality of Meridian, I grew ashamed thatI had been bored earlier. Going to the present made me really appreciate the beautyof the past.
This book is gonna be D-E-N-S-E. And good, I think.
I'll know for certain by issue 2...
Posted by Suddenly Seymour on :
quote: and once I was made witness to the current reality of Meridian
It probably means nothing, but when I saw Meridian and his constant references to the guy as "Scion," all I could think of was Crossgen. I kept waiting for them to mention the Virgo Sigil. Obviously, Crossgen can't copyright those words, but they jumped out at me.
Eric
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
I wonder if the next issue is going to mirror the Grev Mallor/Lady Memory marriage form the TMK era. The groom-to-be doesn't resemble Grev - he's smart, but a smart-ass; it's more the reluctance suggested, that it's just an arranged marriage that made me think of the other story.
Of course, there's lots of precedent in history and story-telling for strategic alliance marriages.
Posted by MLLASH on :
Yeah, I admit that next issue's "marriage" has me intrigued....
the next-issue solicts state that she "has a secret" and is LESS than willing to go along with the marriage.... I'll bet she's a TOTAL spitfire....
Can't wait to see!
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by MLLASH: Yeah, I admit that next issue's "marriage" has me intrigued....
the next-issue solicts state that she "has a secret" and is LESS than willing to go along with the marriage.... I'll bet she's a TOTAL spitfire....
Can't wait to see!
Come on Lash! Haven't you figured it out yet? Her secret is....
She's a Giant Robotic Lesbian!
Posted by Arachne on :
Has anyone else noticed that the cover was by Tony Harris?
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
!! Nope, didn't notice, for shame. Thanks, Arachne - wonder if he's doing all the covers.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Yeah, we talked about that over at the TnT board before Legion World launched. This was one great cover.
Here's the cover to # 2:
# 3:
and # 4, all by Tony:
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
I think the first one was the best of the bunch so far but these look great too.
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
I think he used the same model for #3 as he did for the Dreamer cover.
[ September 05, 2003, 08:23 PM: Message edited by: Blockade Boy ]
Posted by Arachne on :
Pretty, pretty. Posted by StuRat on :
I somehow missed issue #1 when it came out, but picked up issue #2 a few weeks ago... and, fortunately, my store had a couple of issues of #1 stocked away.
I thought the first issue started off poorly -- the endless exposition, intercut with interruptions and asides, really detracted from the story and beautiful art. Even knowing that I'd already bought the second issue and wanted to read both, it was still something of an effort to make myself get through all those similarly-colored text boxes.
I thought the second issue was MUCH better, though -- as the story kicks off in earnest. I'm definitely interested to see what happens to the fleeing lovers, so it looks as though RotZ will end up on my pull list. The terrific covers and inside art don't hurt...
Posted by StuRat on :
And the guy on the cover for #3 is the spitting image of Bruce Wayne from Harris's recent run on Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight!
Posted by icefire on :
I love this book!!!!
Posted by MLLASH on :
I enjoyed # 2 enough to come back for # 3 but the book hasn't made it to my pull-list... yet.
Posted by icefire on :
quote:Originally posted by MLLASH: I enjoyed # 2 enough to come back for # 3 but the book hasn't made it to my pull-list... yet.
It will Lash it will!!!!
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
Colleen Doran wrote (at her website) that Issue #2 was originally the first book and by the time she was working on #3, DC decided to add an introductory issue to give some background history. I think a lot of people found this first issue of just dialogue a bit flat or confusing.
Supposedly things really get cooking with #3, but they always say that! I still don't have the second book, hope to get it this week.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by Fat Cramer: I think a lot of people found this first issue of just dialogue a bit flat or confusing.
I know I did. Flat, anyway.
I think DC erred on that first issue. There are readers out there who only give a book one issue to grab them, and ROTZ #1 wasn't a grabber.
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
Having finally read #2 (what a laggard I am!), it might have been more confusing without the set-up in the first issue; maybe not - the marriage as political alliance is a pretty standard story, not hard to figure out - but #1 has probably set up the whole series, or the first year of stories.
The thing that got me, however, was that I was much more interested in and drawn to the chubby, affable brother and the two amazonian sisters than to the "main" characters. I suspect Na'ia (?) will be developed more and the scion left at the altar is perhaps meant to be an unsympathetic creature.
I'm not even sure of their names, after reading the issues and flipping through them just now. That doesn't strike me as very good for story-telling, unless these are expendable characters (was the scion killed or just unconscious at the end?) . Maybe it's all the apostrophes, which is becoming a tiresome trend in comic book names.
The artwork is a delight; the clothing alone serves to distinguish the different houses, in addition to their behaviour and speech.
Posted by STU on :
Re: issue #3...
Gory! Posted by Amentep on :
Okay...read issue #3.
Keith Giffen and Colleen Doran are two of my favorite creative types in comics...
...so why do I dislike this book? I'm sorry but three sealed it for me. The final straw was the inclusion of an element I've been dreading since it was foreshadowed in issue 1 [what the other world is - BLEH!].
I almost feel guilty for not wanting to read the book given the creators involved... Posted by STU on :
I think I'm going to stop reading with this current issue also -- there are some really intriguing elements, but on the whole I'm just not riveted or anxiously awaiting the next issue, and considering how many other titles I have, I'll have to cut one or two.
To make up for it, though, I'm going to try to pick up some TPBs of Doran's A Distant Soil... Posted by MLLASH on :
I had been mentally wrestling about whether to buy # 3 or not, as # 1 and # 2 were spotty at best.
I wanted to like it more, 'cause a zodiac-based world intruiged me and it's GIFFEN, damn it, but....
I just don't.
It doesn't even have characters I'd already connected with to keep me on board, like Giffen's uber-confusing SUICIDE SQUAD did.
So I gave it 2 issues, fair enough.
Giffen needs to give the fans what they REALLY want....
more I CAN'T BELIEVE IT'S NOT THE JUSTICE LEAGUE and AMBUSH BUG...!
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
Getting that sinking feeling here.
You've said it - I really wanted to like this series but it's just not there. Haven't seen issue #3 yet. I believe there is a commitment to put out 12 issues, but if the first ones don't grab you...
Posted by MLLASH on :
I've a feeling DC wasn't much behind ...ZODIAC either, as it launched with a higher $2.75 price instead of the now-standard $2.50.
Posted by snowsparkle on :
I have only read the first book of this. People have already said a lot of what I'd say about this: first book boring, confusing intro dialogue.
While I find the concept interesting, the execution left somehting to be desired... Then again, I have fairly strong preconceptions about the signs of the Zodiac, so that might be part of *my* issue.
Frankly, I had no idea Giffen as involved until I read this thread. I just saw Colleen Doran on the cover and needed to see! I love her art (I'm a huge fan of A Distant Soil), but I find she often suffers from being paired with an inker who diminishes her work. That wasn't too bad here, but the colours! Yuck! It was like an exercise in "how many shades of mud can I use" -- and that was before we say the people of Aries.
I might pick up more sometime, if I have money to blow and a yen for soemthing to read. Or I might not. *shrugs* That's my sixteen cents.
[ November 29, 2003, 04:23 AM: Message edited by: snowsparkle ]
Posted by icefire on :
Sadly Issue #3 will also be my final issue!!!!
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
Funny, but I sort of turned around with Issue #3 - I like that the two lovers are getting some personality, that the action - some of it - has moved to the Vatican (always lots of shady dealings in Vatican stories!) and that there are lots of sneaky, back-stabbing political sub-plots going on.
Posted by Amentep on :
quote:Originally posted by Fat Cramer: Funny, but I sort of turned around with Issue #3 - I like that the two lovers are getting some personality, that the action - some of it - has moved to the Vatican (always lots of shady dealings in Vatican stories!) and that there are lots of sneaky, back-stabbing political sub-plots going on.
But that's really the crux of my problem...not that the Vatican can't be the source of good stories, but I just plain don't want to see the "real world" at all.
Why can't a fantasy story just exist in its own universe? Why do so many comic fantasy stories end up sending their characters to the real world? I've grown to hate this particular plot twist, and after all the buildup [including the deadly dull first issue] of the Zodiac world and society, what I want to see is THAT world in action, not OURS and a "strangers in a strange land" motiff.
But maybe that's just me... Posted by icefire on :
quote:Originally posted by Fat Cramer: Funny, but I sort of turned around with Issue #3 - I like that the two lovers are getting some personality, that the action - some of it - has moved to the Vatican (always lots of shady dealings in Vatican stories!) and that there are lots of sneaky, back-stabbing political sub-plots going on.
Okay Cramer just for you I will give it 2 more issues!!
Posted by Arachne on :
I gave up with issue #4. The plotlines are just too convoluted. (And I like convoluted plotlines!)
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
First, I'd like to apologize to FC for editing her original post but I didn't want to start a separate topic.
Now for the news. DC has confirmed that issue # 8 will be the final issue of the series. It didn't even last long enough to make it through the Zodiac even once. Here's the scoop from Jen at The Pulse:
quote:DC Comics has confirmed for THE PULSE that issue eight of Keith Giffen, Colleen Doran, and Bob Wiacek's Reign of the Zodiac will be the last. Colleen Doran shared her thoughts with us about the end of this fantasy series.
Artist of Reign of the Zodiac, Colleen Doran told us:
"As you can well imagine, we were surprised and disappointed when the boom came down on Zodiac. We were sure we had a twelve issue run, and there are plenty of books that don't sell as well. But I think DC just didn't see it taking off, so they decided to close it down at the end of the current storyline, which is a real shame. We all worked like dogs on this book. I spent a lot of time designing all of these Royal Houses and the only good news about all of it is most of the work I did never appeared in the book and hasn't been bought, so it belongs to me. I am going to save them for other projects.
Everyone on the book was incredibly sad about it and our editor Joan Hilty was just so nice about everything. I think she was terribly relieved I didn't get upset at her, but these decisions are not personal at all. I never get mad about these things. I just did my best and that was all there was to it.
The day before, I knew there was a conference about Zodiac coming up and I had this funny feeling about it, so I immediately put feelers out that I would be available soon for work. Right away I had a new script proposal and within a couple of hours, I had a bright and shiny new assignment at Vertigo, with a creative team with whom I have previously enjoyed working with great success. I can't really talk about it now, but I already have script and the contract just went to the lawyers. It all went down faster than the proverbial speeding bullet. I was out of work in the morning and employed that afternoon.
In a market where so many creators are looking for work every day, I am really privileged and blessed and extremely grateful that I have such terrific relationships with the people with whom I work, that we all want to come back and do projects with one another time after time. I can't ask for a greater compliment or privilege. There are no hard feelings at all. No one slacked, no one didn't carry their weight. We did the best we could and that was that.
Keith Giffen has been my friend since I was a teen, and even though Zodiac didn't work out as we had hoped, he means a lot to me and I am grateful for the opportunity to have worked with him on this project. I had a terrific chance to try new things and grow as a creator. I look forward to working with him again, too."
We hope to have news soon of Doran's Vertigo project.
Posted by MLLASH on :
Well, can't say I'm surprised. "REIGN..." just had a "cancelled" feeling about it, similar to CHASE, YOUNG HEROES IN LOVE, MAJOR BUMMER, VEXT and THE HECKLER... only THOSE books I *loved*!
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Vext! I loved Vext! I wonder if Keith could be persuaded to have him make an appearance in his upcoming Legion work?
Posted by MLLASH on :
VEXT (as well as the other books I mentioned-- check out the back-issue bins!) was sheer brilliance.
I dunno if Giffen would do it or not since there's so many LEGION -related in-jokes he could use already.
Y'know what would rock?
Vext, Ambush Bug and The Heckler appearing in Giffen's next FORMERLY KNOWN AS JLA series! Perhaps they could all join the team! ***Huge Grin!***
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Don't forget Cheeks! That would be too classic. Even if it was just a panel or two.
Posted by MLLASH on :
I'm wondering if CHEEKS will turn up with A-Bug in the LOBO UNBOUND series!
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
I wonder how Zodiac could have been made better. Just take one plot/one house and develop that for several issues before branching out? Still, I'll probably go for all 8 issues just to see how it turns out.
Giffen does great comedy characters. I just read the Vext series last week for the first time, after seeing it mentioned here at LW. Don't understand why that or Ambush Bug didn't persist - maybe with an independent, with lower sales expectations/needs, they might have continued to be published? Still, nice to see AB back in the Lobo book - and Vext would be welcome for a return visit somewhere too.
Posted by MLLASH on :
If you liked Vext and A-Bug, Cramey, be sure to add THE HECKLER 1-6 (Giff/T&M Bierbaum) to your list of back-issue purchases!
Posted by DrakeB3003 on :
Too bad to hear Reign won't even go the twelve issues, but at the same time I'm relieved because I've been debating whether or not to continue buying the thing. I bought, but still haven't read #4 and I actually put down #3 half-way through. Not to sound like one of those poeple who put down the TMK Legion for being too dense and hard to follow, but that's how I felt about Reign (I was new to the Legion when TMK came out but I was able to follow that).
I also find it hard to care about any of the characters -- they all seem like pieces of a complex political drama, but while the whole might be interesting once the pieces are put together, I'm missing the personal dramas that should make the epic meaningful and resonant as a reader. It also makes it less interesting to follow the plot while the pieces of the big picture are being assembled.
Posted by Super Lad Kid on :
I dropped Reign after issue #3. I planned on getting #4 but when the time came I realized that I just didn't care and found it wiser to save my money for something else.
The problem I found wasn't that it was too complex of a plot. It's actually quite simple. It seems as though Giffen was just trying to make it seem really complex with many different levels of intrigue. The writing just wasn't good IMHO. The dialogue was corny and unnecesarily ambiguous. And the revelation that Earth was going to be involved di absolutely nothing for me. The kicker was the scene where the priest was downloading porn. Just tasteless and not something I want to read about. After seeing the work Doran put into her art I REALLY wanted to like this series, but it just never caught on with me.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
The Heckler is right up there with Ambush Bug, the Subs special, the Lobo Christmas special, etc., IMO as Giffen's funniest stuff! I reccomend it to anyone who loves his humor!
Posted by Amentep on :
quote:Originally posted by Fat Cramer: [QB] I wonder how Zodiac could have been made better. Just take one plot/one house and develop that for several issues before branching out? Still, I'll probably go for all 8 issues just to see how it turns out.
What I wanted was the story to focus on the houses and on the intrigue there. They could have picked any of the houses and stuck with them, or even followed multiple houses.
What I didn't like was the first issue [which was forced on them, as I understand it] was deadly dull and I disliked them going to Earth. I saw it telegraphed early on, and I dreaded it. When it happened I hated that. My interest in the series was a new world with new cultures, not in a bunch of strangers being chased on Earth. So I dropped it then and there. They had jettisoned the world I was interested in, and thus jettisoned my interest in the work as a whole.
Posted by Portfolio Boy on :
the solicitation for #8 does not seem to indicate that it is a final issue. In fact, it actually seems to inimate that it is the begining of a new story arc.
?
Does not matter to me though. I dropped after #3, after having only "tried" to read #1.
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I just saw Colleen Doran on the cover and needed to see! I love her art (I'm a huge fan of A Distant Soil), but I find she often suffers from being paired with an inker who diminishes her work. That wasn't too bad here, but the colours! Yuck! It was like an exercise in "how many shades of mud can I use" -- and that was before we say the people of Aries. ![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)