This is topic The Outsiders in forum Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities at Legion World.


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Posted by icefire on :
 
Is anyone reading this title? I love it Though I really miss Donna. I really like Grace and Thunder. Not sure about Indigo yet though. What does everyone think??
 

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Posted by Omni Craig on :
 
After 3 issues I'm still not sure. Maybe it's because the group is so radically different from the previous incarnations. The only continuing member is Metamorpho. I want to see Geo-Force, Halo, Black Lightning (not as the concerned dad) and Katana. I know their "fomula" didn't always sell, but they were the Outsiders to me.

Ultimately, Roy and Dick belong with the Titans, and Jade belongs with the JSA. I blame the really crappy "Graduation Day" book that they used to launch this title for leaving a bad taste in my mouth when I read it each month. The artwork is good, so it must be the writing I'm finding so "blah". Didn't Judd write both books? Hmmm...

On the flipside, Teen Titans is absolutely amazing. Great take on the characters by Geoff Johns, and amazing artwork by McKone.

Bring Donna and Lilith back already DC, you buncha yahoos! You know you're gonna!

[ August 29, 2003, 01:56 AM: Message edited by: Omni Craig ]
 

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Posted by DrakeB3003 on :
 
I read the first arc to see if it would interest me and it hasn't, so I won't be buying any more. ("Power Company" was a more interesting read, dammit! )
 

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Posted by Nightcrawler on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by DrakeB3003:
("Power Company" was a more interesting read, dammit! )

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Yeah.
 

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Posted by Poverty Lad on :
 
From what I've heard about PoCo, that's sying something!

I'm STILL waiting to find out what's so important about Indigo that Lilith and Donna had to die and she's still AROUND...
 

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Posted by DrakeB3003 on :
 
Indigo is nothing but rehashed "Data" from Star Trek, imo in terms of personality.
 

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Posted by Caleb on :
 
I'm enjoying Outsiders but I like Judd's writing and I love Raney's art. I hope they look in on Halo, Katana, Looker and G-Force.
 

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Posted by MLLASH on :
 
I had to totally divorce myself from GRAD DAY to even BEGIN to give OUTSIDERS a fair shot. (GD was, to me, the WORST premise for re-launching 2 titles I've EVER seen. There are a THOUSAND other ways this could've been done-- but I digress...)

I love THE OUTSIDERS so far. I've only seen the cover of issue 3 and It's titter-inducing, always a good sign.

Winick has the potential here to have a (slightly more serious) version of the 80s Justice League here-- he needs to run with it.

After reading the last issue, I said "I smell a hit!" I'm willing to bet I'll say the same thing after issue 3.
 

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Posted by Danny Blaine on :
 
Personally, I don't care for the OUtsiders one bit. Maybe it was the Graduation Day beginnings, or maybe I just don;t like Judd's writing.

Whatever the reason, it's coming off my pull list.
 

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Posted by superboymddjr on :
 
Hey, if you 're looking for Katana, be sure to check up in Superman/Batman series...she was in silhouette on the last page of S/B #1.
 

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Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by MLLASH:
I had to totally divorce myself from GRAD DAY to even BEGIN to give OUTSIDERS a fair shot.

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Me too.

I just reminded myself that GRAD was driven by TPTB, where Judd has said he's been given a free hand on OUTSIDERS.
 

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Posted by Kid Psychout on :
 
That's not really a good thing. His GL was horrifyingly boring and Exiles was a real step backwards for comic books.

Grace, Thunder & Indigo are three of the most unimaginative characters i've seen recently.

Artwork was nice, villian interaction was nice.

Arsenal forming the team works, but Dick seems out of place.

And if you're trying to establish some continuity with the old team by having metamorpho, why have him as an amnesiac? At least his old look's back.

If this is a hit it's because the readers don't have high expectations of comics anymore.


 

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Posted by MLLASH on :
 
Now Kid, just what DO you expect from a comic? I expect to be entertained for 22 pages and a few yuks thrown in earn brownie points.

OUTSIDERS 3 provided this for me.

I like it.

Winick had a lot of fun writing The Joker, 'twas obvious.

I like Thinder, Indigo and Grace.

I like that Jade is an experienced veteran... COOL!

I even liked the Batman appearance and that it wasn't plastered all over the cover.

Next issue, BROTHER BLOOD...! You guessed it-- I *like* it!
 

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Posted by Kid Psychout on :
 
yeh. i like to be entertained as well, but there's gotta be a bit more originality for me.

Nothing really grabbed me from the book and i'm kinda allergic to characters called Thunder.

Surely he could have come up with a better name while still tipping the hat to BL. (and why does she have density powers?)

And i really, really hate Indigo. The last time i could stomach that "What is this thing... Love?" characterization and dialogue was in the tin can flying round with the FF. HAL had more personality.

I've seen all the elements of this book many times in other forms, and the way they're put together now just don' do for me.
 

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Posted by Kid Psychout on :
 
ps, when i can plan on getting to computer i'll have to say hi to you and all properly.

hope you've been keeping nice.
 

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Posted by the boy with UltraPowers on :
 
as i didn't really follow the original OUTSIDERS !!! where are HALO, LOOKER, GEO-FORCE at the moment ??

Alive ?? Dead ?? Comic Limbo ??

i've enjoyed the first 3 issues so far ....

Matthew.
 

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Posted by Computo on :
 
Looker last had a cameo in a Wonder Woman comic. Her alter ego is on some sort of gossipy TV show.

As for the others, no idea.
 

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Posted by Icefyre on :
 
I hope at some point we get appearaces from Looker Katana, Geo-Force, Faust and my favorite Windfall!!!!
 

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Posted by Computo on :
 
Did anyone read the second series?

I was very intrigued by a cover which had Geo-Force smashing the visor of the Atomic Knight, from the perspective of the Knight (complete with warning lights flashing inside his helmet). I never actually picked it up though.
 

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Posted by MLLASH on :
 
I quite liked the second series; it featured some nice Pelletier artwork, lesbian villainesses, The Eradicator and vampires.

Fun stuff!
 

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Posted by DrakeB3003 on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Icefyre:
I hope at some point we get appearaces from Looker Katana, Geo-Force, Faust and my favorite Windfall!!!!

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It seemed that Katana was going to guest in this month's "Superman / Batman" (she was in shadow along with a bunch of other heroes), but none of those heroes appeared the latest ish except Captain Atom. Maybe next issue...
 

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Posted by Pov on :
 
I -am- liking this title, but I have to ask--

We're only four issues into the series, and we've got fill-in art alREADY?! I had my reservations about Raney when DC signed him to an exclusive contract, and again when he was announced on this book. I like his work, but he's never been good at keeping a schedule. If this keeps up, I may drop it from my preorders and take my chances with catching it at my CBS.
 

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Posted by MLLASH on :
 
Awww, Povvins, I enjoyed ChrisCross' fill-in!
 

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Posted by Pov on :
 
I should have been clearer-- I, too, like ChrisCross's work. I loved his stuff on CAPT. MARVEL. But Raney already needs a fill-in artist for 2 issues, after only producing 2 issues?!

THAT was my beef, not with the quality of the fill-ins, but that we're having them at ALL.
 

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Posted by MLLASH on :
 
[hushed whisper]

To be honest, I think I prefer ChrisCross' work... Raney draws some hella-HOT guys and the best Metamorpho EVER but I don't find his women attractive.

ChrisCross' Metamorpho isn't as good as Raney's but his chicks AND guys are hot!!!!

[/hushed whisper]
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by MLLASH:
I quite liked the second series; it featured some nice Pelletier artwork, lesbian villainesses, The Eradicator and vampires.

Fun stuff!

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quote:

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Originally posted by MLLASH:
YAY!!! At the CBS tonight I got OUTSIDERS 5 and the TEEN TITANS/OUTSIDERS secret files!!!!

I'm thoroughly enjoying both books!

I agree that OUTSIDERS would be more accepted if Donna and Lilith hadn't been "killed" and killed. I had to totally wipe GRAD DAY from my mind, and I'm glad I did!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Pov:
I should have been clearer-- I, too, like ChrisCross's work. I loved his stuff on CAPT. MARVEL. But Raney already needs a fill-in artist for 2 issues, after only producing 2 issues?!

THAT was my beef, not with the quality of the fill-ins, but that we're having them at ALL.

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Probably everyone has heard this already, but Raney got sick, hence the fill-in issues so early.

Personally I'm enjoying the series pretty well. Not great, but fun enough. I'm not sure if it'll last that way, I'm worried about how certain things are going to pan out, but I'll wait and see.

Just wish they hadn't had to have Graduation Day to do this and the new Teen Titans series...
 

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Posted by MLLASH on :
 
Thanks fellow OUTSIDERS fan, you've given me a new topic idea...
 

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Posted by MLLASH on :
 
Another fun issue # 7 was!

Quite an interesting twist to the Metamorpho mythos.

Raney's back! His femmes looked hotter this ish, which is good.

next issue: HUNTRESS! I thought she was a BOPper now!

My only complaint: WAY too much swearing this ish and you guys KNOW I'm no prude.
 

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Posted by Amentep on :
 
Bleh...I'm just not sure what to think of the book. I thought the emotional content of the issue was handled rather ham-fistedly [Rex's transition towards the end, asking "Rufus" if he remembered his/their parents was just awkward as all get out].

Still it had its moments, but this titles on the cusp with me, and next issue with the Huntress [a character I never really liked when she was an Earth 2 character, much less the new version of her] has me wondering if this book is earning my $2.50 or not...
 

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Posted by icefire on :
 
I'm still enjoying this series!
 

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Posted by Varalent on :
 
I actually thought the 'morpho 1 & 2 conclusion was handled fairly well. Rex has never been the smoothest of characters so everyhting seemed in keeping with his personality. SHould be interesting to see how this plays out.
 

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Posted by Ger on :
 
I'm very surprised that I'm liking Titans more than I am Outsiders. VERY surprised.
I liking the Outsiders, but I think CrisCross' art threw me out of whack when I was SOOO looking forward to Raney. The first few issues were wonderful but it has kind of derailed for me since then. I'm hoping I'll be super-pleased again now that Raney's back. I did enjoy the metamorpho issue and I was loving Raney's new take on him, but now that I see Raney's take on the classic Metamorpho, whoah!!! Oh well, maybe he'll at least get rid of the blue jeans.
 

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Posted by Bevis on :
 
I've actually dropped both Outsiders and Teen Titans now. Neither was doing it for me at all. Motivations seemed to be off (more to please TPTB at DC than actually story driven) and a lot of the characterisation in both series was just majorly screwy. Good art on both undeniably but nothing to keep me interested in terms of the stories.
 

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Posted by Owl Lad on :
 
Anyone else think that Jade is being underused for such a powerhouse character? I don't see her meshing with any of herher teammates. Love the latest costume in the last issue.

And did anyone else notice that the team is being run by 2 white guys over 3 non-white females? I know this shouldn't matter, just throwing it out there.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
But Nightwing is the natural leader !

Outsiders has seemed a bit off to me too lately. I really don't like it that Metamorpho isn't Metamorpho. Winnick just created a character that will undoubtedly be killed off in a story sometime in the future. Either in a JLA or Metamorpho story once Winnick leaves Outsiders. They should have just used Metamorpho, it would have been so much cooler...

Indigo is now the only one that I really like out of the whole group, so hopefully Winnick can give me reason to make another my favorite.
 

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Posted by MLLASH on :
 
So issue 17 was groovy. Nice colors from Rhonda, and some pretty dang sweet fill-in art. I liked it a lot.

I can see how the subject matter would be very touchy to some, though. Definitely not for everyone.

This book is still one of my favorites every month.
 

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Posted by Pov on :
 
for #21--

Batman's on the cover, and Nightwing looks pissed about having to share a book with Bruce again!

Might have to at least flip through this at the shop, see if someone can right Dick without making him a pussy anymore...

[ February 23, 2005, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: Pov ]
 

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Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
 
Yes and no. Hit and miss.

Still better than the work on his main title, though, and good enough to keep reading.
 

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Posted by MLLASH on :
 
OUTSIDERS continues to be a favorite series of mine.

I am LOVING Carlos D'anda's artwork and hope he is Raney's replacement.

I sure didn't see the end of # 21 coming....
 

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Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
 
Neither did I, and it'll be interesting to see how this is explained.

D'anda's work wasn't bad, but the art by and large has been a bit murky for my taste. Maybe a different inker would help.
 

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Posted by MLLASH on :
 
Murky. Yeah, really HEAVY on the lines, I see it.

Yet I still find myself loving it, it's a bit different than other stuff out there right now.

And he draws an awesome Starfire!
 

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Posted by Pov on :
 
Well, he can't KEEP her! She's gotta go back to the Titans and that's THAT!

I mean, she's in the TTG cartoon... not Outsiders:The Animated Series!

Question: Is Gina still coloring, or did Tom R. take the Ball-and-Chain with him when he left? Not sure if they're a husband-and-wife team like the Dodsons...
 

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Posted by Pov on :
 
(Teehee-- the first time I saw Gina Going-Raney in print I said to myself: "Why's Gina goin' grainy? She need more fiber???

I crack my self up-- so YOU DON'T HAVE TO! )

((I'm like the Dow Scrubbing Bubbles of comedy... ))
 

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Posted by MLLASH on :
 
Just read # 23 & 24-- WOW!

SPOILERS FOLLOW for real real.

After the "revealation" about Shift in # 23 we get Indigo going bonkers as Brainiac 8.0-- actually seen in Teen Titans # 24!

I know a lot of people didn't like Indigi because of her hand in Lilith & Donna's death, but I sure grew to like her a lot. I'll miss her, because I doubt there's any going back now.

Lots of great moments between the team members. OUTSIDERS remains a big favorite of mine.

Shawn Moll does a nice job on # 23, though I missed Carlos D'Anda. Dandy D'Anda returns for # 24 with his BEST ART YET-- WOWZER!
 

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Posted by Tamper Lad on :
 
I liked this issue too, the title has improved a lot over the past few months.

POSSIBLE SPOILERS - Outsiders24 and LSH6

I found it quite ominous in issue 24 in which Brainiac 8 intimated that her mission was to save the future of Colu by slaughtering the heroes in the upcoming crisis came out on the same day as a Legion of Superheroes where the villain said that Colu is next on his hit list.

I don't think things look good for Colu at all in LSH. B8 is from the far far future and barring any alternate future mumbo jumbo Colu may go boom in the 31st century.

I sure am excited about DC Comics this year, I don't think I've ever seen a story unfold over such a huge number of titles over such a long period and continue to gain momentum each month.
 

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Posted by MLLASH on :
 
Totally agreed. DC is where it's at right now!
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
I totally agree with that. That alone has made both my brothers get really big into comics--they read almost every DC title these days. It really is a great time for DC right now.

Outsiders was great this issue, although Arsenal continues to annoy me! Shift and Indigo were my favorite two characters, but it looks like one or both might not be around soon. Indigo as Brainiac 8 was a great twist though, and I was shocked when I read Titans! I get the feeling Shift will be killed by her by the end of this though...

I also for some reason feel that Connor/Superboy and Arsenal's days might be numbered. Arsenal seems like the most likely of all DC's Silver Age characters that might bite the dust, although I can't place why.

I'm excited about Outsiders, big time! To me, this is Judd Winick's best title right now and the one were he nails his characters the best (with the possible exception of Nightwing on occassion).
 

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Posted by Tamper Lad on :
 
Yeah the Roy/Arsenal Character is DC's silver age whipping boy for sure. Drug addict, denied succession when his mentor dies, in deadly situations twice already in this series not to mention having his daughter taken.

I see it as this, when writers can only make a character interesting by whipping them ie. lost the ability to write positive stories about the guy, it's a sign. Eventually editorial just tells them to get on with it and off the guy.

I think they call it "Barry Allen Syndrome" in the DCU.
 

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Posted by Vee on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
I get the feeling Shift will be killed by her by the end of this though...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
I also for some reason feel that Connor/Superboy and Arsenal's days might be numbered.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
Arsenal seems like the most likely of all DC's Silver Age characters that might bite the dust, although I can't place why.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tamper Lad:
I sure am excited about DC Comics this year, I don't think I've ever seen a story unfold over such a huge number of titles over such a long period and continue to gain momentum each month.

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i totally agree with you, i'm really enjoying this unfolding storyline, infact i'm buying more DC titles that i ever had, over my 25+ years of reading/collecting them

i DC !!

Matthew.
 

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Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
#25's out... spoiler

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... concluding the TEEN TITANS crossover, 'The Insiders'. Starfire, Wonder Girl, Shift and Kid Flash had some good moments-- while Thunder, Robin and Arsenal shone for some good nanoseconds.

The Superboy/Brainiac 8(Indigo)/Luthor Brainiac I combo didn't quite build up to critical mass, as it might've. Their corporate threat loomed convincingly, though. Perhaps this strange intergenerational foursome will reuinite someday... maybe with the old Superboy character, Match?

Though I came to like Indigo a bit for her romance with Shift and her unique viewpoint as a living computer, I never quite forgave her for Degraduation Day... so I'm not sorry to see her gone for awhile (you know she's going to return one of these days... probably not as Indigo, though). The Shift scenes were sad... the use of the word 'real' was poignant-- just the 'good' side of trite, for me.

Once again Nightwing decides to quit. Oh, Dick Grayson, will you *never* learn? You just can't stay away for long...

I'm surprised there wasn't more of a direct link-up to the RETURN OF DONNA TROY... I'm looking forward to the Titans and Outsiders meeting up with her again. And I'm quite intrigued about how thing's shake out membership-wise when the whole thing's done.
 

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Posted by MLLASH on :
 
*choke!!* I found the Shift/Indigo scenes so well done... I'll really miss her as a hero despite GRAD DAY. She was just so fun and omnipotent.

Surely there is no longer any doubt that Dandy Carlos D'anda is ROCKING THE HOUSE. Why hasn't he been announced as permanent OUTSIDERS artist? Will there even BE an OUTSIDERS after the upcoming Crisis?

Nice to see that SOMEONE remembers that it wasn't *just* Donna Troy that was killed in GRAD DAY (though I think this mention happened in TT).
 

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Posted by Stargazer on :
 
I just dont underdtand why Nightwing gives up so easily. I love the Nightwing character but I sure thought he was a stronger individual.
He keeps quitin...hos disappointing.
 

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Posted by MLLASH on :
 
It did seemed a rather forced reaction.

But I guess it *does* set into place the events that lead to the crisis. With Indigo and Nightwing gone (and Starfire likely returning to the TTs since Dick's outtie), can Arsenal, Jade, Thunder, Shift and Grace carry on?

Maybe they need to bring Captain Marvel Jr and Huntress back.
 

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Posted by Caliente on :
 
Starfire's not leaving. She's on the cover of the next few issues... so yeah.

And Huntress is a Bird of Prey atm, so I don't think she's availible. (Besides, what fun is it to have her on the team when she can't torment Dick??)

I think the team'll be okay. Let's just hope the book will get better now that detatched!Dick is out.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
The latest issue was good, although the battle seemed a bit anti-climatic. What happened to Luthor and Brainiac? I guess Luthor goes on to Villains United, but did we ever really learn what his whole plan is?

What about Brainiac? Was this whole storyline a hint of things to come in Infinite Crisis and beyond?

I’m sad to see Indigo go. You know, I think she might have been my favorite character. Now I’m wondering if Shift has much more of a role to play, before he eventually is killed off—basically, without his love-story, he doesn’t have much more of a purpose.

I think Nightwing will be back sooner than later. I am glad if Starfire sticks around though, since I think Kory needs a nice solid home. With no Indigo and Nightwing now, it’d be nice to have Jade, Thunder and Kori get some serious panel-time.

And I still feel like Arsenal and Kon-El’s days might be numbered. Not that I’m rooting for that, but I feel like it seems more likely to happen to them than any others.

Is the old artist coming back? I liked his style for this title…
 

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Posted by Pov on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
Is the old artist coming back? I liked his style for this title…

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quote:

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Originally posted by Caliente:
now that detatched!Dick is out.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
Have to say I haven't been impressed with the latest two-part arc.

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Neither was I, to the point where I've now dropped the book.

I know it was a fill-in, but this title was on the bubble with me anyway, and with Nightwing out for the forseeable future, my interest waned fairly quickly.
 

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Posted by MLLASH on :
 
Y'know, I'm pissed off. That's how BAD OUTSIDERS # 26 & 27 were. What a waste of $5. I've been probably the biggest OUTSIDERS fan that posts here, but this sucked ass, even for a fill-in.

Thank all that's sacred that this fill-in garbage is over with.

Looking forward to the debut of Clark & Thibert next issue and the return of Winick and his OUTSIDERS.
 

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Posted by the boy with UltraPowers on :
 
i too felt the last 2 issues were poor !! they weren't totally CRAP !!

but i just felt they were a bit 'nothing' !! as someone who didn't follow the original version of 'BATMAN & The OUTSIDERS' did this FUSE character actually show during that original run ?? or was it made up for this 2 part arc ??

i was thinking of dropping this book a while back [ but i stayed on for the TITANS crossover ] even though i quite enjoyed the run so far, i never quite took to the more 'adult' feel to this book !!

with the news that MATTHEW CLARK is coming on board [ i like his artwork ] i may stick around a little longer ??

Matthew.
 

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Posted by Caliente on :
 
I mostly read it for Nightwing, so I'm on the fence about what to do. I dislike the majority of the characters and, not only do I think they've been handled poorly, but I'm also disappointed in their interactions. And these people are FRIENDS??? Yeah, right.

Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is... we'll see. I'm semi-hopeful with the new creative team, I guess. More apathetic, really.
 

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Posted by Vee on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by legionadventureman:
Im a little behind here...

Where are Metamorpho, Geo-Force, Katana, Halo and Looker?

Who conmprises the current line-up of the Outsiders at present?

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LAM, those were the original Outsiders. This title came out of Graduation Day (when Donna Troy and Lilith were killed) Two new groups were created from the aftermath of Grad Day, the new version of the Teen Titans and a new version of the Outsiders.

These new Outsiders include: Nightwing (although it appears as if he's out for now); Arsenal (Roy HArper, formerly Speedy); Thunder (Black Lightning's daughter); Shift (a Metamorpho offspring?/clone?/duplicate? not sure how to describe him ); Indigo ( a robotic entity from elsewhere...turns out to be the future); Grace (big bad bouncer type chic) and recent additions Jade and Starfire.

The 2 story arc everyone is talking about is a two issue fill-in that followed the culmination of the Titans/Outsiders crossover event "The Insiders". Last month and this month the original Outsiders (or most of them anyway were featured, wrapping up some loose ends from a former case they dealt with when they worked together. It sucked big time.

Hope that helps bring you up to speed somewhat.
 

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Posted by Vee on :
 
I've also been giving serious consideration to dropping this. I mostly bought it for Dick and Roy. I really don't like Grace, never have warmed up to Thunder or Indigo; Shift was about the only one other than Nightwing and Arsenal I liked. It was neat to see Jade and Starfire join as well but I hate all the infighting and backstabbing that bought them to where they are.

This group has never gelled as a team and never will. I'm going to check out the new creative team for a few issues but will likely be dropping this title from my pull list.

It's sad really. When it first came out, I had high hopes for this team. Sorry to see them sink so low.
 

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Posted by Stratum on :
 
I honestly don't think this team was ever MEANT to gel.

I think part of the problem is that the cast make-up is odd and I think it's made it hard to capture a true team dynamic.

Jamie
 

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Posted by MLLASH on :
 
Thank Hera that awful 2-part fill-in is over, # 28 was back to the GOODIES!

GOOD LORD!

Dick & Kory, lying in bed, n-e-k-k-i-d! That was hot!

I really really enjoyed the Shift/Metamorpho chat.

So Grace is bi! Trendy!!

The Clark/Thibert art was a winner, and the cover artist draws cute pouty lips!

And looks like CAPTAIN MARVEL JUNIOR is back! Hooray!
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Some thoughts:

Thank goodness we're back to regular story telling and some progress is being made once more.

Kori & Dick--very hot indeed! I like that Dick isn't coming back anytime soon too.

Captain Marvel Jr.- a great addition and one I was hoping for since like #8. Glad to see Jade stepping up too and being a leader. She was right, she hasn't really shown her stuff, and I hope this is the start of that.

Some good scenes with Grace and Thunder, the latter of which really needs them (and more too I hope). Seeing Lash's 'Trendy!' posts on bi/gay stuff has made me smile all day

I like seeing Metamorpho around too, and his mentor status with Shift. It's interesting to see Rex in this type of role.

So what's next? I think I want more Kitana. And less Arsenal this issue was a good thing, we needed a breather from Roy.
 

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Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
I felt like I missed an issue, seeing Dick and Kory together. I hope his moroseness is about to end-- it's getting tiresome.

Jade and Cap, Jr. was the highlight for me-- though the Shift/Metamorpho scene was nice, too. How odd would it be to interact with a separate entity that was essentially yourself? Shift's mention of suicide made me think of Element Girl in SANDMAN.
 

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Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
 
If Cap Jr. joins full-time, I may have to start picking this title up again.

The Dick/Kory thing kinda bothered me, too. It's good that Winick is showing that they indeed had a real relationship (unlike Bat-editorial, who treat it as a fling), but neither seems to me to be the type to just hook up.
 

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Posted by Vee on :
 
Damnit!!!!

I was going to drop this title and then they go and wave Freddy in front of me! How can I drop it if he becomes a part of the team?

Question: Jade approaches Junior to replace "one of the most powerful members" which I assume refered to Indigo. So who, if anyone, will she get to replace Nightwing?

Have to admit, the revelation that Jade was attempting to recruit Junior surprised (and thrilled) me. Like Cobie and Lash, I've been hoping to see him become a part of this since his guest appearance in #8 but I truly thought she was talking to Kyle for some reason.

And finally, does anyone think that Donna will eventuallly round out this team or do you think she will fill Kory's spot on the Titans?
 

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Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
OUTSIDERS 30

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I don't think Sabbac's such a good fit with the Fearsome Five- though each make great adversaries for the team. Is anyone else surprised at how quickly the 'seven deadly sins' plot is developing? I thought that'd be grist for several storylines-- maybe even a miniseries of its own? Still could be, but I tend to think it'll be dealt with here in THE OUTSIDERS fairly quickly.

I enjoyed Sabbac's exploration of his newfound abilities-- some fine panels. What would've happened if it'd been Freddy (love him- hope he's staying around) hitting on Roy instead of Psimon (ick)? Hah!
 

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Posted by MLLASH on :
 
Ummmm... am I a perv if I admit that OUTSIDERS # 30 made me horny?
 

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Posted by Caliente on :
 
Weren't you a perv anyway?
 

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Posted by MLLASH on :
 
Oh, yeah. I forgot!
 

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Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
OUTSIDERS #31 is out...

SPOILER SPACE

SPOILER SPACE

SPOILER SPACE

SPOILER SPACE

SPOILER SPACE

SPOILER SPACE

SPOILER SPACE


... and it features a couple of great moments and one really crappy one.

LOVED the Grace/Arsenal conversation in which she tells Roy that he's a super-hero "through and through". At the moment, I like Grace. I tend to vaciliate about her. *I* wouldn't agree with the assessment of Nightwing she makes while talking to Arsenal, but I can see why *she* would form her opinion.

It was a really nice scene of characterization and dialogue. Turned on its head, of course, by the fact that Grace was manipulating Roy into action while telling him that he wasn't a true 'Outsider'.

The Donna-in-space scenes were strange. Poor Captain Marvel, Junior unceremoniously flies off into outer space, looking green around the gills due to something happening to 'magic'.

Here's where the tight-continuity-bound-to-overarcing-story tends to damage peripheral titles. Marvel was brought onto the team; looking like it was for a stay of more than an issue or two. And then he's hurtled into somebody else's story (I assume- otherwise it's *really* crappy and unforgiveable, as opposed to merely crappy).

Anyway, the appearance of X'hal/Blackfire was surprising. Will this play out in OUTSIDERS, or in INFINITE CRISIS? Both? OMEGA MEN? The weird hop-skip-jump storyline has gone from the RANN/THANAGAR WAR to DONNA TROY's RETURN to Donna's little excursions to a slew of titles. It's a bit--- jumbled.

Didn't care for this artist's takes on Donna or Starfire, but I liked the rest of his work.
 

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Posted by Vee on :
 
Uh..ohhh!

I REALLY don't like the idea that they brought Freddy into the Outsiders just to have him drafted by Donna for her Suicide Squad. Nothing good can come of this for Freddy.

They better not be planning to use him as cannon fodder for this Crisis or I will be truly p*ssed!


 

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Posted by legionadventureman on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Mystery Lad:
OUTSIDERS #31 is out...

Anyway, the appearance of X'hal/Blackfire was surprising.

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quote:

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Originally posted by superboymddjr:
oh boy #34 - By the by, I am gonna buy a KC Action Figure - JADE!!!!!! she has a bigger window on her chest than Power Girl! *heh*

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rockhopper Lad:
Todd and Jennie-Lynn were conceived inside an energy bubble of their father's, Alan Scott. It was revealed many years later, the they were genetically his children, but were actually the children of the Starheart, the source of Alan's power: Jen was the light side and Todd the dark.

They were both born as brown-haired caucasians. In their teens they developed their powers by which Jen could turn green and Todd as black as a shadow.

Back in the Infinity days, Jen used to change to her original skin and hair colour, but eventually went to being green full-time.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Blacula:
Yes they are LAM. They're the children of Alan Scott (GL of Earth-2) and the villainess Thorn. Jade inherited her Dad's emerald power and it somehow turned her green (though originally only when she powered up).

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Many thanks for the origin recap, Rockhopper and Blacula. By the way, how did the GA Thorn reform?
I think I got her mixed-up with the GA Harlequin (Molly Maynne)coz i thought she (Molly) was Todd and Jennie-Lynn's actual mother...
 

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Posted by Blacula on :
 
Rockhopper Lad probably knows more than I do but I don't think the Thorn ever reformed, or at least not permanently. When she died she was still a villain IIRC.

Molly Mayne (Harelequin) is Alan Scott's wife (not that we ever see her anymore... <grumble> <grumble> JSA writers...) and so would I guess therefore be Todd and Jennie-Lynn's stepmother.
 

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Posted by icefire on :
 
The character at the bottom looks to be wearing a scarf.....Could this possibly be the new Captain Boomerang?? I agree though that it looks like Shift, Grace, Thunder and Katana though.
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
Starting from the bottom left...

Katana
Grace
Shift
Thunder
Arsenal (wielding dual vert crossbows?)

I think Jade bites it in space, in the Rann-Thanagar Special. There's some hint that a hero dies and a Green Lantern is affected by a great tradgedy.
 

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Posted by Vee on :
 
Jade dying would mean TWO Green Lanterns are affected by a great tragedy. Kyle is in love with her (or was) and Alan Scott is her dad.
 

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Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
 
Yep.

Kinda.....convienent all three of them are going on this space mission.
 

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Posted by Rockhopper Lad on :
 
Of course Jade will die. Why not? Infinitors are cannon fodder! Two just died, I've heared rumours of two more, the others are (except Power Girl) de-powered, evil, in jail or recovering from insanity. Except for the ones who are already dead!

As for Thorn (Jade and Obsidian's mother), she was taken by Jay Garrick and Alan Scott to Paradise Island (pre-Crisis to Diana; post-ZH to Hippolyta; in between, who knows?) and the Amazons reformed her. She adopted the name Alyx Floryn upon her return to the States and married Alan Scott. She left him on their honeymoon, letting him believe she was killed in a fire and abandoned the twins she conceived to keep her evil side from harming them. When they were grown, she found them and, ultimately, killed herself to prevent her from killing Alan and their children.
 

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Posted by Blacula on :
 
At least when Jade dies it'll probably be in an heroic fashion and after they've given us an emotional send-off with her father and Kyle.

Poor Mal will be lucky if he gets a single word of dialogue in this whole series before getting unceremoniously blasted away in the background of some panel without anyone noticing!

Damn that Donna Troy! Taking all these good characters to their deaths! I'm beginning to understand now why Judd Winnick was so intent on killing her off. She must be stopped!
 

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Posted by rhino MLLASH on :
 
This whole IC thing as my nerves wrecked for all my favorite titles.
 

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Posted by icefire on :
 
Lash, there is an interview with Judd over at the Newsarama that has me very excited about this title.....Also the rumors are growing that Boomerang Jr will be a member!
 

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Posted by legionadventureRhino on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Blacula:
At least when Jade dies it'll probably be in an heroic fashion and after they've given us an emotional send-off with her father and Kyle.

Poor Mal will be lucky if he gets a single word of dialogue in this whole series before getting unceremoniously blasted away in the background of some panel without anyone noticing!

Damn that Donna Troy! Taking all these good characters to their deaths! I'm beginning to understand now why Judd Winnick was so intent on killing her off. She must be stopped!

---

Whats going on with the comics these days? Over in Marvel, the Scarlet Witch and Polaris are corrupted (presumably) by Magneto...and now Donna/Troia...why are these good people being altered? It doesn't make sense!
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by icefire:
Lash, there is an interview with Judd over at the Newsarama that has me very excited about this title.....Also the rumors are growing that Boomerang Jr will be a member!

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Sniff sniff.

I'm in a serious case of denial, ever since the cover image for #34 was released. With the rumours Boom JR has replaced Arsenal on the team, I've begun to fear for Roy. I'm a big fan of the second stringers like Arsenal and Tempest.
 

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Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
OUTSIDERS #33

I can't believe even the Outsiders were going to leave people to die in an explosion. Sure, they turned back- but... maybe Alex Luthor and Kal-L are right. Actually, I'm even more surprised that the Rogues left Owen behind. Captain Cold, in particular.

Guess this gives credence to the rumors mentioned in previous posts. Could be fun.
 

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Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
OUTSIDERS #34

Uh- has Judd Winick been hanging out with Devin Grayson? I can't see that character operating quite the way he is here-- letting soldiers die, etc. The pretending-to-be-dead thing, I can see (though is *he* 'off the grid' too?). At first, I thought maybe that Arsenal was pretending to be Captain Boomerang, but I guess that is Digger's son, after all. Where's Roy? And Koriand'r?

There might be too many of these unaccounted for characters. It's starting to seem a bit of artificial suspense, IMO.
 

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Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
 
Hmm, weren't Roy and Kori in that image of potential JLA'ers?
 

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Posted by Owl Lad on :
 
Thunder seems to have adopted her father's costume and loses her blonde wig. Could this mean Daddy bites the dust in IC?

Don't know much about Boom Jr. but he looks great with this gang, someone who seems to really fit the bill as an "Outsider."
 

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Posted by MLLASH on :
 
I was on the bubble with this book post-1 Year Later, because I miss Jade and CM Jr and Arseenal.

But Matthew Clark's EXCELLENT art this very issue convinced me to stick around; not to mention that I really like Boomer and that young-Jay Garrick cliffhanger has me hooked (what if they have a whole clone-young-JSA? Ohmigaw!!).

Thunder's new look is GREAT!
 

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Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
OUTSIDERS #37

Maybe Monsieur Mallah and The Brain should get their own comic book. They easily steal the show here, despite Superman's guest-starring turn and some interesting revelations about recent issues.

The stuff with Thunder and Shift is an unexpected twist. If only similar back-tracking could clean up the stains building up on the character of Nightwing. His little tete-a-tete with Superman really left the taste of bile in my throat. I just *can't* buy that this is Dick Grayson, who supposedly just spent a year of family time with his father, Bruce Wayne and good friend/brother figure, Tim Drake.

I really don't get what DC is doing with one of it's most popular, long-lived characters. Do they really think that readers want Jason Todd/Red Hood around at the expense of Dick Grayson? If so, I think they'll find themselves wrong.

This title is a bit maddening. There're events happening that'd have me dropping any other title, but each issue has a scene or character moment that keeps me buying.
 

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Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
 
I would not be surprised if this was supposed to be Jason Todd originally, and there were some hurried rewrites. Especially in light of the revelation at Wizard World Philly that Dick Grayson was slated to die in Infinite Crisis.
 

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Posted by Stratum on :
 
I'm inclined to agree with you OM. Of course, with the way they are handling Dick, I almost wish they had killed him.

Jamie
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
I'm not sure if it was Didio or Wacker in a recent Newsarama bit. But one of them mentioned that after the current arc in Nightwing, things will be getting better for Dick Grayson.

Judging from the quick, simplistic resolution of the dual-Nightwings in his own title, OM's theory is looking really good.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Nightwing here was god-awful! Too bad too, b/c I thought this was better than the previous few issues. Thunder and Metamorpho's scene was great (Todd, that's Rex if you didn't know) and Alan was actually pretty interesting.

I'd buy ten copies of a Brain and Mallah comic.

I feel like the team needs *something*. Its missing some part of the dynamic, or maybe some of the characters need to do more? Kitana could use some more spotlight and character moments.

What needs to stop though is super-heroes torturing people, as if Jack Bauer on 24 translates into the DC universe, especially Nightwing.
 

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Posted by Stratum on :
 
This issue is just further proof that Winnick has no idea about Dick Grayson's core values or his basic concept. The conversation between him and Superman just did not jive with me.

Unless, he's gonna pull a fast one on us. Which while it is possible, is highly unlikely.

Jamie
 

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Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
 
I am currently reading this entire series from a friend. I'm only on # 14. It's not as good as I thought it was going to be.

And I have a problem. Not just with Outsiders but with many comics. Why is Jade such a weakling? Besides guys with guns she's been punked by everybody else. This girl has powers of a GL?!?! But it seems if the other person has any powers at all...they are immune to her powers. I read another comic yesterday where Iron Man punches a normal human twice in the face...and the guy is still awake???

I am starting to wonder if Winick and Bendis are the same person?! Two dimensional characters that say bad words (ok Bendis' DD wasn't like that...and by that I mean Matt Murdock...the other characters were).
 

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Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
OUTSIDERS 38:

"better known by the nom de plume, Phobia..." When did Phobia become a writer?

Metamorpho as shapechanger... now that we've seen that for a couple of issues, what do you think? I don't like it-- element shifting was powerful enough. Why not use Mirage or amp-up Gypsy? I don't get it.

More Nightwing nuttiness. I think an intervention might be in order.

Pretty decent villain-getting-the-unexpected-upper-hand scene at issue's end. How this fits in with TEEN TITANS is a bit confounding. I liked the fakeout-- with Monsier Mallah and The Brain ultimately revealing their real deadliness.

DC's giving this pair quite the push, aren't they? good. Villains that combine fun and deadly are *not* a dime a dozen.
 

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Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
 
Mystery Lad, regarding the Shift/The Element Man (whatever his name is right now) as a shapeshifter? Don't care for it.

Mostly because it's just a ripoff of another Winick title and character...Morph over in Exiles. When I was Shift start acting silly like that...well it's not really the character. It's like Benjamin Grimm suddenly gets shapeshifting powers and he goes all silly like the Impossible Man.

I hope Monsier Mallah and the Brain find true homosexual love one day and ride off into the sunset. Heck they need a mini atleast! They are so...wierd yet I can't stop watching!
 

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Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
 
I finished reading all the issues a couple of days ago. I expected this title to be better but it's certainly fun. I'm a fan of Grace for sure...and I always liked Roy Harper. I compared Winick to Bendis...(which is good and bad)...I will also compare him to Claremont (which is mostly good) and like CC his is VERY wordy. geez!

Anyways, new team? Since I don't love this title I don't mind the shake ups so much. Glad Black Lightning Girl isn't blond anymore. Nice to see Nightwing back. The new Boomerang? I like him. And I am glad Katana is around personally.

It's a kick butt title. I don't believe Nightwing would go for the torture stuff personally.
 

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Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
OUTSIDERS 39:

Lordy, M'sieur Mallah tickles me. His little tap-dancing conversation with The Brain was fun! Aptly strange, yet cute, in a demented sort of way.

And his one-by-one predator-playing-with-his-prey psychological torment of his captives... *this* is why villains capturing super-heroes and holding them in weird bondage poses is a *good* thing. Love the way he messed with Thunder's head, especially. That was a bit of a jawbreaker!

What I didn't like? The clones-- who/what/why *are* they? Is the wind one a clone of WINDFALL? Is that PLASTIC MAN or his clone? Should I recongnize the fiery one, or the amphibian one, or the bug-winged one? I liked their visuals-- they just need personalities and names to go with them. I'm forgetting the clone business here, I suppose. They're probably 'mayflies' that'll be around for just this storyline.

The SHIFT bit is interesting-- and I'm curious about what'll happen to KATANA... and about just who GRACE's 'people' are.

Still, what's good isn't quite good enough to overcome the poor use of NIGHTWING-- though that's not really a factor in *this* particular issue.
 

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Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
 
Mystery Lad, I am thinking Grace is from Apokolips personally...or Genesis? That would be cool.

I have no idea who those clones are??? Aquaman clone? The bug guy possibly Martian Manhunter? I think I am wrong on them. Only other thing I can think of is some of the old Quality comics guys like Plastic Man? But the Red Bee never had bug powers? Oh well.
 

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Posted by superboymddjr on :
 
I can only speculate on who clones are - Beast Boy, Lagoon Boy, Black Canary, Firestorm, and lastly Plastic Man. I could be wrong, somehow.
 

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Posted by MLLASH on :
 
I read # 39.

Clark's art remains excellent and I am enjoying the book despite the lack of Jade and Marvel Jr.

I'll also throw in a guess that Grace is a New God.

My only complaint about # 39 is that I would rather have seen the kool new Brotherhood recently featured in T.TITANS instead of the "clones".

Also, in T.TITANS, it is shown that the Brain and Mallah failed in their cloning attempts. When did that change?
 

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Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
So, Batman's coming back-- I suppose there'll be a name change to BATMAN & THE OUTSIDERS. Apparently, he'll pick from among these candidates

Nightwing
Boomerang

Katanna
Shazam

Thunder
Martian Manhunter

Metamorpho
Aquaman (new kid)

Grace
Wonder Woman

I've listed them in pairs because the solicits for the five issues in which the line-up will be set describe them as twosomes from which Batman will pick 'his' Outsiders.

Dick's already been confirmed (drat it! I *hate* Winick's Nightwing!) I think it'd be a mistake to oust Boomerang- but we know Bats has lingering trust issues, even if he's no longer the grim 'n gritty exemplar he once was.

I think it'd be a huge shock if WW actually became an Outsider, and if Grace stays, I'd bet that Thunder will, too. Shazam's presence doesn't even make sense- surely it'd be Freddie who'd be considered? And as Shazam, the former Captain Marvel would be too busy for membership in a second-tier team. So, Katanna's in.

Which leaves Metamorpho/Aquaman the most potentially unpredictable pairing. Of course, nobody's said that the membership's going to be *one* from each issue-- or that the members considered are only the ones listed here.

Anyway, unless Winick really sells his portrayal of Dick Grayson, I'm not sure how long I'll reading this. Maybe if they did something unexpected, like bringing back Technocrat or Faust or Windfall... or adding someone unexpected like Flamebird or *this* Earth's Duela or Molly Mayne Scott or Hero (from The Ravers)...
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
Check out the latest solicit. The cover has a number of distinct arms with Batman. Anyone care to start the guessing?
 

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Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
 
CJ, the arms? Well Metamorpho for sure. And I think the new Aquaman.

The others I am guessing are Nightwing, Grace, Thunder, Katanna.

I am missing one ain't I? While I've always enjoyed this title I am glad they are adding Batman personally and shaking things up a bit.

As for Aquaman? I want the new guy to be a superhero and leave the crown to Orin.
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
I'm thinking:

Katana - in the lower right
Cap Boomerang - just above her
Thunder - next up
Aquaman - top right
Grace - top left
Metamorpho - middle left
Firestorm? - lower left.
 

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Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
 
CJ, i was expecting Firestorm to join the JLA with McDuffie coming on board. But he fits in with the Outsiders. I just wish it was my Firestorm.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
So, this is cancelled with #50? I have to say, this has been bad for a looooooooong time. Real bad.
 

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Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
 
Given that it's right at the tail end of the whole "Batman takes over" thing, I wouldn't be surprised to see a relaunch very soon.
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
A relaunch that's been relaunched before it was relaunched. Newsarama has a story on the recent BATMAN & THE OUTSIDERS title.


Dixon replaces Bedard replacing Winnick on OUTSIDERS
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
And the first issue is out this week, with #2 schedule in 2 weeks!
 

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Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
 
Bedard was slated. I actually didn't care for the 5 of a kind mini all that much. BUT I loved the lineup they went with for the actual series!

Batman, Katana, Metamorpho (old schools), Grace & Thunder (in the background of sorts), and the great addition of Catwoman and Martian Manhunter! Awesome lineup!

You have the three of the original members that best fit the book Bats, Katana, Metamorpho, two of the Winick team that best fit the book and two additions that just make sense!

Then Bedard is gone! I don't mind. Dixon's first two issues are pretty good. But they are getting rid of Catwoman and Manhunter I hear! Why? I read it was DC editorial not Dixon. And it seems Geo-Force is going to join. GF doesn't really fit the team IMO.

Also artist change? I never heard of Julian Lopez but I loved his art in issue #1. Then the artist was changed to Carlos Rodriguez who I also liked and the inker may have smoothed the transition but Lopez rocked!

I understand DC editorial is trying to make each book more familiar by using the best known incarnation of that book's history. I agree to a point. That point is when you shoot yourself in the foot.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
I'm as lost as you. I'm going to stick along for the ride and see what happens. You know the traditional comic book story where the team goes through hell, the line-up changes, a big story happens and then emerges different, but stronger at the end.

I feel like that's the real life story here with editorial and the creative team too . I'm hoping it emerges as something enjoyable.
 

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Posted by MLLASH on :
 
It had been a while since I had really enjoyed OUTSIDERS, after a long stint as one of my favorites. I bypassed all the recent 1-shots and haven't picked up the latest B&tO incarnation at all.
 

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Posted by Stealth on :
 
I bought the Katana one-shot only because Katana's creator (and original BATO writer) Mike W. Barr wrote it. I thought it was nothing special, but not bad either.

I'd have gladly given the new BATO a chance if Bedard hadn't been canned. Sometime during the 90s, Dixon lost the frantic energy of his early work, and he has added insult to injury by apparently losing his ability to filter his thoughts before speaking. So no interest from me.
 

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Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
 
I'm happy with Dixon and the art. But not the lineup.

Geo-Force back in the Outsiders doesn't make much sense.
 

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Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
 

quote:

---

Blacula said: Looker's costume = worst superhero costume ever?

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Owl Lad:
Could someone please explain what's happened with Halo or what is her origin? I didn't get the references to her in the latest issue with all this "Auricle" stuff.

---

If Johns didn't have a Lantern fetish, he could have had Rainbow Girl be a 30th Century Halo...










 

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Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
I'm liking this lineup-- not so much the Insiders. I really liked the page with Vandal Savage literally marching through the ages. And the Metamorpho/Halo team was a good one. Owlman begins to show his worth. Creeper is suitably off-kilter.

Assassinations on the street... immortal beings... Alfred playing tough... advance the plot a bit.
 

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Posted by Owl Lad on :
 
Request for the 2 Outsiders threads to be merged?
 

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Posted by Nightcrawler on :
 
Sure...done.
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
This is a good mix of characters, and I'm liking everyone's time to shine. The Creeper's coming off a little too Ragdoll like right now tho'.

And the artwork is oh so good. With this and R.E.B.E.L.S. and Secret Six, DC has managed to add some great names to their stable.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Outsiders isn't knocking me out of my chair, but its not bad either. So far, pretty good, but I really kind of need some more wow factor.

I do like the line-up. Love seeing Halo again, hoping she has some more screen time. I feel like Geo-Force, Kitana and Black Lightning--all of whom I love--are in desperate need to have their stories explode into the pages. I tihnk honestly Tomasi is doing a lot of set-up work now, establishing the line-up and then hopefully will hit us with some good, dynamic stories. He's proven he's got the writing chops.

My one minor complaint is that I really loved the original character of Roy Raymond, TV Detective from the back-ups in Detective throughout the 50's. So his son as Owlman just doesn't do it for me. I also have secretly had my own idea to bring him into modern times for a few years but don't want to reveal it on the off-chance (0.01% actually) that one day I quit my job and somehow become a comic book writer and get to work on Batman .

The Creeper here works well, but like Ceej says he needs to distance himself from a potential Ragdoll comparison. He's one of DC's most original characters IMO (naturally, a Ditko creation), so I really would love it if he became a big star for the Outsiders.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Well I caught up with the last three issues. While they are not bad by any means, it just feels like something is lacking here. The comic just isn't grabbing me.

On the one hand, I think a meeting between Vandal Savage and Ra's Al Ghul is a cool idea but it just wasn't as much of a 'wow' as I expected.

The team itself seems vanilla which is too bad because I really like Metamorpho, Halo and Creeper and I actually like most of the rest.

I actually really hate Alfred's involvement in this title. His character has moved way too far away from his traditional role. Its distracting enough to limit my enjoyment.

I usually like Tomasi's style--he's good for strait up good comic book stories. But something is missing here. Not bad enough to drop the series, I just hope it gets some more momentum.
 

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Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
OUTSIDERS 22 contained a couple of scenes that exemplified something I love about comics. Real exploration of how superpowers work and all the subtle sorts of things a being who wielded them could do, in addition to the 'showstoppers'.

The subject in this issue was Geo-Force, though other characters like Metamorpho and Clayface also received some interesting power-examination. I never thought of Geo-Force and Metamorpho as such natural partners and now I really want to read more about them.

Really well done, I thought. I'd love for some Legionnaires to get this kind of treatment.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Well, as the Blackest Night tie-in ends, so apparently does Tomasi's run on the title. I can't say I'm all that happy Dan Didio himself is coming in--aside from the fact that its very difficult to seperate his ever-annoying personality from his work, I'm not all that impressed by his prior stuff (90's Superboy run--way to kill a title).

Still, I have to say that while I'm absolutely loving Green Lantern Corps and so many other things by Tomasi, I have not really enjoyed his run on Outsiders all that much. It just didn't have enough of a wow factor to pull me in. The Batman-related themes were also a turn-off, making it seem like the team can't stand on its own while not actually providing them with Batman.

Outsiders is a comic I'd really like to see succeed but I can't remember the last time I really honestly loved it. The inclusion of Halo and the Creeper were very welcome for me but it didn't do much. At this point I wish Geo-Force and Black Lightning were elsewhere in another comic. I kind of hate the Roy Raymond Jr. as Owlman idea--they could have done some cooler stuff than this pretty derivative and repetitive idea.

One good thing Tomasi did though was write a great Kitana. That was the highlight here. Halo as well.

For the Blackest Night tie-in itself, it was similar to the JLA story in that it wasn't bad it just wasn't anything special. Mediocre at best. The problem is that Geo-Force has already gone through all this stuff before with Terra; there is no new ground being broken here. How many times must everyone have to deal with what Terra did 30 years ago...we've all seen these stories before.
 

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Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:

The problem is that Geo-Force has already gone through all this stuff before with Terra; there is no new ground being broken here.

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Tee-hee! 'Ground being broken'. By Terra!

A pun, but so true!
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 

 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
Did anyone read Didio's first issue? This beleaguered book just got it's cancellation notice. Dan shakes up the team, not in terms of members, but in attitude towards members. Everyone has a disagreement with someone, and none of it makes sense. The issue starts with them at each others throats.

Ok, the Black Lightning/Katana debate had some grounding, but give the history these two have, it seems odd they couldn't talk it out.

Phillip Tan is the new artist. That's about all I can say since he didn't even get the first issue drawn. And he's getting a fill in for the third issue, based on the solicits.

Ah well
 

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Posted by Lardi on :
 
Cejj, I don't read Outsiders but skim the reviews a lot. This issue has been pretty universally panned. However, some of them seem optimistic about how Dan ends the issue with something that ties into the Super-titles, but none of them spoil what exactly that is. Care to spoil it for me/us?
 

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Posted by CJ Taylor on :
 
I don't know what excitement the ending brings to overcome the issue. They bring in a character with a connection to the Superman family, one not unseemly with the Outsiders even. I don't follow the Supes books, so I don't know if there's something brewing, but...

Click Here For A SpoilerThe Eradicator joins the book
 

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Posted by Owl Lad on :
 
This issue just fell flat for me.

I didn't care for the surprise reveal character in the end. I would've rather they added Batwoman to the fold.

I agree with you CJ, that the heated argument between Katana and Black Lightning seemed disingenuous given their long standing relationship and core values. Also, I don't need another angry Asian female in the DCU.

And what gives with Brion? The haughty prince persona sounds logical, but he hasn't been this way in a long time and now all of a sudden he's now a Royal Pain in the Ass?

Finally,to make matters worse with this issue, Halo gets sucked away for who knows how long. She wasn't somebody I was fond of in the original run, but I've loved her new look and reintroduction to the team and now she's gone.

I feel like the book has done a complete wig out!
 

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Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
Robinson's dialogue on the Justice League titles has gotten lots of criticism in various reviews I've read. I'd say it's Shakespeare compared to what's written in OUTSIDERS.

Not fond of the general direction for Geo-Force and the team, as of now. Katana is clearly under some sort of mental influence.

Are we meant to attribute her and Geo-Force's weirdness to post Black Night emotional trauma? Or to 'bad love'?

I did like the revamped Masters of Disaster and thought their scenes full of energy and interest. Unlike the Markovia political stuff (yawn).

So who *is* the new Eradicator? Is it a character that's never appeared before, or is he a *familiar* Krypton guy? A mole planted by Zod? Or one of the other guilds?
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Well, I’ve colleted the Outsiders since Winnick relaunched it with #1. I also co-own the first series as well. I’ve seen this title hit some pretty high ups (mostly in the 80’s) and some pretty low downs (mostly these last few years). And thus, I come to the latest two issues #26-27; I’ve just now read #26—and was reminded that this was Dan Didio’s first issue as writer. Note I did not say “delighted”; I felt I must come immediately to LW and post my thoughts before diving into #27.

My initial reaction: Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.

This guy just has no creative talent. He’s an absolute hack.

Some may point to his Metal Men story in Wednesday Comics; let me remind you in total that is basically a one-issue story—and it’s a pretty run of the mill Metal Men story at that, using the basic guideline of how to do a regular ol’ superhero story. But yet even that, to steal a phrase from Todd, is like Shakespeare compared to this.

This is one of the worst issues I’ve ever read. I’ll reiterate: This is one of the worst issues I’ve ever read. Ah yes, now I recall what it was like when I read Countdown. This was the guy in charge of it—and reading this utter piece of shit, I can see his spirit was strong in Countdown as the guiding force.

But don’t worry Dan Didio fans (fan? Anyone?); I will provide examples:

*pages 2-8: Geo-Force acts like an utter douchebag, destroying any last hope that this character might actually get new fans. Well, its over, he’s finished. A pretty great character who has been gradually been killed by DC’s writers is now in the process of hitting bottom. To Roy Raymond: “You have misspoken twice tonight; there will not be a third time,” after Roy asks about Alfred—Geo Force then refers to him as “the manservant of a fallen comrade”. Wow. Thank Dan. Make someone look like a douche. How original. Make a king seem like he thinks he’s better than everyone. Freaking Ground-breaking.

*Kitana on pages…well, pretty much the rest of the issue. You know where she’d fit in real good? Rob Liefield’s Bloodstryke! Except of course, Rob Liefield is writing for his fans, and they might like this. Instead, Didio gives us a bloodthirsty “I hunger for souls”, murderous Kitana who is constantly treating Black Lightning like he’s some nerdy doof who should shut up and let her kill because “that’s what makes me a leader”. Kitana is basically Liefield’s Feral from X-Force, and Black Lightning is now Jughead. At this point, I’d rather see Kitana—whom I like—quietly die than have to put up with this. And the great Black Lightning, the first African-American superhero in the DCU and who recently had his status in the DCU elevated to the proper place it should be, is now run of the mill nobody. You might as well replaced him with Joe Public from the Bloodlines crossover. Because at least that would have made sense.

*That fantastic Dan Didio dialogue: Stan Lee, he ain’t. It reminds me of my own dialogue in the stories I wrote when I was 11 years old:
Captain Fear (as they’re fighting): “I enjoy a good dance, especially with someone as lovely as you”
Kitana: “You deserve to die for that comment alone’

*And just so they’re not left out, the Creeper and Metamorpho have a scene together that instead of any characterization, a fart joke is inserted (besides the two of them being at odds with one another just like every other team member is). How [sarcasm] cutting-edge [/sarcasm].

Putting all these awful parts together, we now have a whole…a whole big pile of shit. Not only will Outsiders be cancelled within the next year, I’m pretty sure some of the characters will die. And you know what? I can hardly muster any feeling to care. Here’s hoping the Jim Lee co-publisher bit is a way for Lee to phase Didio out.

The Outsiders under Dan Didio is actually quite a joke. And the joke is on me and all the other suckers who bought this issue.

Next issue up next
 

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Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
Reading your review redeemed my annoyance at the issue. And I'm not even really fond of reading what people don't like about a given artform/entertainment (I'm much more interested in what draws someone to a work, might make me a fan of something I'd never thought to try- or given a chance if I did try it).

Worst comic book you've ever read- now that's saying something . I don't think I can pinpoint the worst one I've ever read. Guess the memory of the all the suckage goes into some subconscious mental vault... where they all combine with bad soap opera, crummy old movies and the worst SPACE:1999 episodes into some unholy, Lovecraftian tentacly slime-sucking oozefest of horror.

Just imagine- if all fans had their own personal crap-banks emptied and the mental excretions somehow merged into an unholy extraconscious entity- something an as yet-uncreated combination of the Fantastic Four, the LSH, the Metal Men and the Gerber Defenders would fight, be defeated by, triumph against and then absorb as a member.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
I just read #27 as a follow-up. Even worse

Draaaaaaaaaah-opped!
 

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Posted by lil'rhino on :
 
Why is Didio even writing a comic book except to feed his ego!?
 

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Posted by Owl Lad on :
 
What is the point of breaking up a team that just got back together? I love the original Outsiders, but recently issue, Black Lightning and Geo-Force launch into a psychotic slugfest and Katana acts like Brion's concubine!

And I hope Looker isn't returning just to capitalize on the whole vampire Twilight craze.
 

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Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
So Achilles the Warkiller, now going by The Olympian, is suddenly leveling cities andkilling folks willy-nilly? And getting drawn by Giffen in his Kirby-channeling style?

Did he just join the Outsiders, or was that a particularly obscure form of flirting he was using on Geo-Force?

This was a strangely sort-of enjoyable issue, in an alternate-reality kind of way.

Then again, I suppose I have to account myself a fan of Achilles the comic book character and his twin-trunked flying elephant. I'd like to see him join the JLA or the Global Guardians or the Myths That Walk as Heroes, just as long as he doesn't disappear into the mists like Alpha Centurion or Black Orchid. (Now that's the kernel of a new super-team-- Achilles, AC and BO- who else would buy it?)
 

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Posted by Blacula on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
*That fantastic Dan Didio dialogue: Stan Lee, he ain’t. It reminds me of my own dialogue in the stories I wrote when I was 11 years old:
Captain Fear (as they’re fighting): “I enjoy a good dance, especially with someone as lovely as you”
Kitana: “You deserve to die for that comment alone’

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Did he really write that? That dialogue is so hilariously bad it almost goes all the way round to good again.

It's unbelievable to me that this title hasn't been cancelled yet. If this hack wasn't in charge of the company and just using these poor characters to feed his ego it would have been.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Dan Didio still writing this comic evokes the same emotions out of me that Americans in the late 1970's felt when those hostages were held at the Iranian Embassy.
 

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Posted by Blacula on :
 
^ Now I don't feel so bad about comparing him to Stalin in the Team Titans thread.

The worst thing is, two of the recently promoted editors (Eddie Berganza and Ian Sattler) are just as much of the problem at DC as the Didiot is (and just as crappy of a writer in Berganza's case too) and so I worry that they're being groomed to take his place when he retires (or, in an ideal world, gets fired).

It's like DC are going to be stuck with that crappy editorial team for at least another decade. If the company can even survive that long with them in charge. ugh!
 

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Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
 
Based on positive remarks in this thread from Lash and Cobie, I decided to get back issues of the first 13 issues of the 90s Outsiders. I can't remember exactly why I didn't get it at the time -- after all, it was the same writer as the 80s Outsiders, Mike W. Barr. My best guess is that I was very anti-DC at the time, because of Doomsday/Azbats/Evil Hal, and made very few exceptions.

Anyhow, I read the twin #1 issues, a very clever way indeed of showcasing the large cast: one issue from the point of view of the female members, one issue from the point of view of the male members. Barr's style of writing is still like comfort food to me, and while Paul Pelletier was very raw at this stage (the inking doesn't help), there's enough glimmers of the potential that would blossom over the years.

I'll keep posting about the other issues as I read them.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Awesome! Definitely look forward to your thoughts as you go.

I think you'll see that Pelletier noticably improves with each issue so that by the end of his run, he's really just nailing it.

Also: I don't want to spoil things but be patient with Looker (if she's one of your favorites). Meanwhile, Halo & Kitana rock throughout.
 

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Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
 
Thanks, Cobie.

Always adored Katana and Halo (especially Katana), so that's good to know. Looker wasn't one of my favorites, but of course I felt terrible for her after what happened at the end of #1. So I'm intrigued to see where this goes.
 

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Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
 
Just finished #2.

Sanction was a clever parody of Cable and all the other kill-happy anti-heroes of the early 90s.

Faust is really growing on me. He's Felix Faust's son, right?
 

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Posted by Fanfic Lady on :
 
Finished all 13 issues I bought of the 90s Outsiders.

It was good, frantic fun, and I loved seeing the re-introductions of great 80s villain teams like the Jihad and the Masters of Disaster.

I think I actually like Looker better as a literal vamp.

I'll try to track down the remaining issues. I don't think it ran too much longer.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
I believe it lasted to #24.
 

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Posted by Set on :
 
Ooh, the Masters of Disaster were fun!

Also the Pantheon/New Olympians (I think they were Outsiders foes?) and, my absolute favorite throwaway team, the Force of July!
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
There's an all-fem team that they battle sometime shortly after #13 that is pretty groovy. I think it also brings back Windfall to the series as well.
 

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