posted
Cool! Thanks for the positive feedback, Lardy. I look forward to your list, especially to find out which runs we have in common. And if I can get myself to do it, I might add a supplementary post which elaborates on why I made those choices.
posted
Your list reminds me, Stealth, of another concern I have with comics in general: as many trades as there are, there are still so, SO many great runs that have yet (and may never) been collected in a trade, hardcover, omnibus or Showcase editions. Most of the items on your list have almost zero chance of being collected for people to experience unless they want to go on a massive, potentially costly back issue trip. I've heard lots of good things about Harras and Epting's run, for example, but there is no convenient collections out there for me to enjoy it in a convenient format.
I hope DC, Marvel and various indies think about expanding their trade catalogues significantly. I'm sure there is plenty of money to be made!
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Before I begin, I just want everyone to know that I haven't read everything ever published. This list is what I'm feeling right now and will likely evolve and change over time.
So here goes:
1) Paul Levitz's seminal run on Legion of Superheroes, particularly LSH Vol. 2 #286-Vol. 3 #50 (DC). What can I say? This is why I'm here on Legion World! So many story gems I'll always treasure, so much terrific character-building, some terrific art from Keith Giffen, Steve Lightle and Greg LaRocque.....it was the Golden Age of Legion stories and a run that will always be remembered in the comics lexicon. I'll always have these comics near me and available for reference or re-reading. Always.
2) Legion of Superheroes, Vol. 4 #1-61 (DC). Legion fans either love or hate these comics, and never the twain shall meet. I'm squarely on the "love" side and make no apologies. This was edgy, anything-can-happen storytelling the likes of which I haven't seen before or since. But what really always sold it for me was how Tom & Mary Bierbaum and Keith Giffen made me love Legionnaires like Rokk, Jo and Vi whom I'd never really felt anything about. And on top of that, they gave me new characters like Kent Shakespeare and Laurel Gand whom I still adore and sorely miss after all these years. (So many memories...I thought about cutting this run off at 39 or something, but hell, I'll even keep "Legion on the Run" in there. Even that had it's moments!) I don't think I've ever anticipated the next issue of any comic like I did during an all-too-brief foray "Five Years Later"......
3) Y: The Last Man (DC/Vertigo). The most recent of all the runs on my list. Brian K. Vaughn and Pia Guerra's masterpiece just resonates on so many levels....I mean, it was entertaining, first and foremost. But the characters were just so terrific and the plot points so well thought out. Honestly, Y wasn't what I'd expected at all when I saw the advanced solicitation. I figured, "this is gonna be filled with this 'last man's' sexual adventures." Truth is, Yorick really didn't have sex that much! The ideas, the uber-plot, all of it were just jaw-droppingly good--and exciting! And issue 59....that's gotta be one of the most devastatingly heartbreaking endings I've ever read, just one issue from the finale.
4) Sandman Mystery Theatre (DC/Vertigo). I've discussed this elsewhere on this thread, but suffice to say that Matt Wagner, Steve Seagal and Guy Davis put out a rich, nuanced, pulpy period crime book that made Wesley Dodds and Dian Belmont two characters I have the utmost fondness for. I think Ed Brubaker, Greg Rucka, Brian Bendis and others really owe this groundbreaking series a huge debt.
5) Shade, the Changing Man (DC/Vertigo). Along with Grell's Green Arrow series, this was one of the first two "adult" comics I ever got into. It was probably also the first not to have any real superhero trappings. Yeah, Shade kinda had a costume going on, but he never fought supervillains--he fought concepts like the American Scream and a serial killer inside his brain! Wild supernatural threats abounded, all from the depraved mind of Peter Milligan, a writer who I don't think gets enough credit in the shadows of Grant Morrison and Neil Gaiman. Most of the series was drawn by Chris Bachalo in what makes everything he's drawn since seem like a pale shadow. But with all this going for it, Shade's secret weapon was always its intrepid trio of nuanced characters: Shade, Kathy and Lenny---all the madness wouldn't have been half as fun without them to bring it home.
6) James Robinson's Starman (DC). Who hasn't heard of this legendary run? The cool thing is, it is absolutely, positively deserving of all the hype! Featuring beautiful artwork from Tony Harris for much of its run, the adventures of Jack Knight in Opal City were unforgettable, especially because of the large and rich supporting cast that Robinson populated it with. We cared as much about what was going on with the O'Dares, the Shade, Solly, Ted, Mykall and all the rest as we did about Jack! Robinson made us slacker Gen-Xers feel like we could be something after all!
7) Chris Claremont's Uncanny X-Men, #94-209 (Marvel). This was the run that probably made me a lifelong comics fan. A friend introduced me to this comic circa the 160's and plunged me headfirst into the world of back issues like never before! I became a Marvel Zombie overnight and was into all things X-Men for a long, looooong time. I collected the title(s) well beyond the issues cited, but this was the era it was the best---before the Mutant Massacre changed the lineup forever and ushered in the crossover as being the all-important element in the storytelling. The title picked up a bit for a while when Jim Lee came aboard, but once I eventually stopped buying X-Men, I've rarely ventured back for any significant amount of time. It's just never felt the same.
8) Preacher (DC/Vertigo). Yeah, I know...it was vulgar, depraved, twisted--alla that stuff. But Garth Ennis and Steve Dillon are one of the finest creative teams to ever have their pages stapled together. Period. And along with all of that series outrageous hallmarks, there were interesting characters to read about. Jesse, Tulip and Cassidy were an even more interesting trio than that of Shade. It was a fun, visceral read, and it had a beginning, middle and end that exceeded my expectations. Click Here For A SpoilerStill can't believe all three made it outta there alive, though! Sometimes, it seems Garth switched Hitman's and Preacher's endings!
9) Walt Simonson's Thor (Marvel). Sometimes I wish Marvel had just discontinued publishing Thor after Walt Simonson left--it was THAT good, and no one, I feel, has come close to reaching those heights since that run ended! Just epic, creative and, yes, MYTHIC storytelling. Walt is my Jack Kirby. I know Walt idolized Kirby and was inspired in his approach by Kirby, but I've never been attracted to Kirby's artwork like I am to Simonson's work on Thor! Just beautiful, mind-blowing stuff! I love it all: the beard, the armor, Thor-Frog, Beta Ray Bill and even Sal Buscema's art after Walt stopped doing the art chores. Brilliant, BRILLIANT comics!
10) Sleeper (DC/Wildstorm). One of the two very best writers working today (along with Geoff Johns), Ed Brubaker's masterpiece to me is the 24 issues split into 2 seasons that comprise the entirety of Sleeper. Artist Sean Philips really opened my eyes to a grittier, shadier, more realistic style of artwork that I'd never appreciated before. The saga of Holden, Miss Misery, Genocide, Tao, Lynch and all the rest captivated me beyond belief. This is the shortest run to make my list, but it's a body of work that is a towering achievement in comicdom. I think it really helped Brubaker find his voice in comics which directly lead to the success he's now enjoying at Marvel.
That's it! Whew! Tomorrow night, I'll add some thoughts and analysis on my picks and the ones that didn't make the cut. For now, though...I'm spent!
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by LardLad: 6) James Robinson's Starman Robinson made us slacker Gen-Xers feel like we could be something after all!
I'll have lots of comments to add, but had to stop what I was doing to note this one. What a great way to put it Lardy! That's perhaps the best insight I've ever heard to how I felt about Robinson's Starman. What a damn good series!
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Since it's a roundtable how about a discussion on the revival of the GLC in the Legion's time? I'd rather not have it keep derailing the Lo3W thread but it really does seem to be something the group wants to talk in about.
I'll save any comments though until the topic turns that direction (if it does).
From: Smallville Sector : Greater Metropolis | Registered: Jun 2004
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cleome46
or you can do the confusion 'til your head falls off
posted
quote:Originally posted by LardLad: Your list reminds me, Stealth, of another concern I have with comics in general: as many trades as there are, there are still so, SO many great runs that have yet (and may never) been collected in a trade, hardcover, omnibus or Showcase editions. Most of the items on your list have almost zero chance of being collected for people to experience unless they want to go on a massive, potentially costly back issue trip. I've heard lots of good things about Harras and Epting's run, for example, but there is no convenient collections out there for me to enjoy it in a convenient format.
I hope DC, Marvel and various indies think about expanding their trade catalogues significantly. I'm sure there is plenty of money to be made!
I'm telling you, Lard Lad, that what this board needs is our own version of Dylan Horrocks' library from his Hicksville graphic novel. One of you old-timers could pick a central locale for it, designate a librarian (or the board could elect one) and then the rest of us poor deprived saps could pay some kind of minor fee to make pilgrimages there once a year;Or more, time permitting.
I'd love if we could have an ocean and a lighthouse, too;Just like in the original. But deep down I don't care if it's just off some highway in Indiana with nothing but abandoned strip malls and rusted autos. I'd still show up.
-------------------- Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on flickr. Drop by and tell me that I sent you.
From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
Favorite runs: 1) ZOT! - McCloud 2) Legion of Super-Heroes - Levitz/Giffen 3) X-Men - Claremont/Byrne 4) Legion of Super-Heroes(5YL) - Giffen et al 5) Grendel - Wagner et al 6) Daredevil - Miller et al (both runs) 7) Green Lantern - Johns/Pachecho & Reis 8) Thor - Simonson 9) Alien Legion - Potts/Zelenetz and Stroman 10) Doom Patrol - Morrison/Chase (Cerebus and Meonch/Seinkewicz on Moon Knight almost made it...)
GLC in the 31st century? I like having the GLC around durig the Legion's time, but just as another element to the mix, the way the Heroes of Lallor, the Subs or Dev-Em were in the Levitz run.
[ February 03, 2009, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: DrakeB3004 ]
From: New York, NY | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Yellow Kid: Since it's a roundtable how about a discussion on the revival of the GLC in the Legion's time? I'd rather not have it keep derailing the Lo3W thread but it really does seem to be something the group wants to talk in about
This is the NON-LEGION comics forum. Lard has a similar thread in the LSH forum (or you could start one yourself).
-------------------- My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.
quote:Originally posted by Lard Lad: 1) Paul Levitz's seminal run on Legion of Superheroes, particularly LSH Vol. 2 #286-Vol. 3 #50 (DC). What can I say? This is why I'm here on Legion World! So many story gems I'll always treasure, so much terrific character-building, some terrific art from Keith Giffen, Steve Lightle and Greg LaRocque.....it was the Golden Age of Legion stories and a run that will always be remembered in the comics lexicon. I'll always have these comics near me and available for reference or re-reading. Always.
What keeps me from nominating the entire Levitz run is Keith Giffen. It's well known at Legion World that I hate Keith Giffen. His artistic sensibilities, his sense of humor, his philosophy, everything about him is off-putting to me. The only Levitz/Giffen arcs I like are The Great Darkness Saga and The Legion of Super-Villains Saga; the former is lightning in a bottle, and the latter benefits immensely from Steve Lightle pencilling more than half the story over Giffen's breakdowns, and even then there's "Giffen-isms" that make me cringe, like the graphic intensity of the violence inflicted on Karate Kid, and the scene where one of the villains burns a servant girl to death. It's interesting that Lardy's cutoff point is the end of the Conspiracy arc. At one time, I would have felt the same, but IMO Conspiracy gets worse with each re-reading, and not just because Giffen drew the conclusion; however, I think if Greg LaRocque had drawn the entire arc, it might have risen above its flaws, the way that I believe the Lightning Lad/Luck Lords story rose above its flaws thanks to LaRocque (and, credit where credit is due, some of the flashback-drawing guest artists, especially Grell, Swan, and Shaffenberger.)
quote:Originally posted by Lard Lad: 2) Legion of Superheroes, Vol. 4 #1-61 (DC). Legion fans either love or hate these comics, and never the twain shall meet. I'm squarely on the "love" side and make no apologies. This was edgy, anything-can-happen storytelling the likes of which I haven't seen before or since. But what really always sold it for me was how Tom & Mary Bierbaum and Keith Giffen made me love Legionnaires like Rokk, Jo and Vi whom I'd never really felt anything about. And on top of that, they gave me new characters like Kent Shakespeare and Laurel Gand whom I still adore and sorely miss after all these years. (So many memories...I thought about cutting this run off at 39 or something, but hell, I'll even keep "Legion on the Run" in there. Even that had it's moments!) I don't think I've ever anticipated the next issue of any comic like I did during an all-too-brief foray "Five Years Later"......
Rather than going on another anti-Giffen rant, I'll offer a constructive comparison: TMK is to Legion as Harras/Epting is to Avengers -- both dark and edgy re-imaginings of venerable superhero teams, both controversial, both weak sellers, and both with passionate defenders who have earned these runs cult followings. So I can see where Lardy's coming from, even though I hate TMK and love Harras/Epting.
quote:Originally posted by Lard Lad: 6) James Robinson's Starman (DC). Who hasn't heard of this legendary run? The cool thing is, it is absolutely, positively deserving of all the hype! Featuring beautiful artwork from Tony Harris for much of its run, the adventures of Jack Knight in Opal City were unforgettable, especially because of the large and rich supporting cast that Robinson populated it with. We cared as much about what was going on with the O'Dares, the Shade, Solly, Ted, Mykall and all the rest as we did about Jack! Robinson made us slacker Gen-Xers feel like we could be something after all!
It's taken me a very long time to appreciate Starman. When it first came out, I was immediately put off by the slow pace, the stylized art, and the attitude of the lead character, who seemed to embody everything I hated about my own generation, so I stopped reading it almost immediately. Had I known that Jack would undergo such an evolution over the course of the series, I would have given it another chance. It truly is richly detailed, heart-felt, ground-breaking stuff. That said, I still have some problems with it, chiefly the way Robinson idealizes my grandparents' generation, but then, I was never close to any of my grandparents, so my viewpoint is a bit skewed.
quote:Originally posted by Lard Lad: 7) Chris Claremont's Uncanny X-Men, #94-209 (Marvel). This was the run that probably made me a lifelong comics fan. A friend introduced me to this comic circa the 160's and plunged me headfirst into the world of back issues like never before! I became a Marvel Zombie overnight and was into all things X-Men for a long, looooong time. I collected the title(s) well beyond the issues cited, but this was the era it was the best---before the Mutant Massacre changed the lineup forever and ushered in the crossover as being the all-important element in the storytelling. The title picked up a bit for a while when Jim Lee came aboard, but once I eventually stopped buying X-Men, I've rarely ventured back for any significant amount of time. It's just never felt the same.
Claremont, IMO, really shined on the self-contained stories, the annuals, specials, and one-shots, but as the writer of an ongoing series he left a lot to be desired in terms of month-in-month out consistency. I should add that I came to the X-Men just as Claremont had one foot out the door, so I missed out on the "in-the-moment" thrills that might have made me more forgiving of his flaws. Lardy, have you read the apogee of the post-Claremont X-Men, The X-Cutioner's Song? Because I think that was brilliant, and should have been the start of a new age of glory for the X-Men, instead of the lightning in a bottle that it proved to be in the long run.
quote:Originally posted by Lard Lad: 9) Walt Simonson's Thor (Marvel). Sometimes I wish Marvel had just discontinued publishing Thor after Walt Simonson left--it was THAT good, and no one, I feel, has come close to reaching those heights since that run ended! Just epic, creative and, yes, MYTHIC storytelling. Walt is my Jack Kirby. I know Walt idolized Kirby and was inspired in his approach by Kirby, but I've never been attracted to Kirby's artwork like I am to Simonson's work on Thor! Just beautiful, mind-blowing stuff! I love it all: the beard, the armor, Thor-Frog, Beta Ray Bill and even Sal Buscema's art after Walt stopped doing the art chores. Brilliant, BRILLIANT comics!
I agree heartily with almost everything Lardy says about Simonson's Thor, and although I like Kirby better than him, I think Simonson achieved the near-impossible feat of actually improving on the Lee/Kirby Thor! That may sound like sacrilege, but that's what I believe! And there's no question that Simonson's run has proven an impossible act to follow, much as I believe the Lee/Kirby Fantastic Four may be an impossible act to follow (the one who came closest to equalling them of FF was IMO none other than Simonson.)
quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3004: 7) Green Lantern - Johns/Pachecho & Reis
I almost included this run, but decided to wait until Johns is no longer writing it. I think that Secret Origin was great, but I've been disappointed with Rage of the Red Lanterns so far, and that doesn't bode well for Blackest Night. Still, I do think this run has some of the best GL stories of all time.
quote:Originally posted by Yellow Kid: Since it's a roundtable how about a discussion on the revival of the GLC in the Legion's time? I'd rather not have it keep derailing the Lo3W thread but it really does seem to be something the group wants to talk in about
This is the NON-LEGION comics forum. Lard has a similar thread in the LSH forum (or you could start one yourself).
I'm a little torn on this issue. Yes, this thread is very Gym'll's-specific, but certainly, the Legion is not completely off-limits, given how it is prominent in the Top Ten discussion. I'd say if we can discuss it and focus mostly on the Corps itself, it certainly has a place here. But if it's really about the impact on the Legion it belongs in that forum, whether in a revival of the Legion version of the Roundtable or in its own topical thread. I'd love to see the LSH version revived personally, so if Yellow Kid, Reboot or anyone else wants to resurrect it, you have my blessing!
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
By the way, guys, I battled a stomach bug today, so I'm running on fumes. I'll comment more in depth on my list, those that didn't make the cut and on your comments tomorrow, hopefully, as I recover.
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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1) ROM Spaceknight #1-52 - My favorite series of all time and this run is the vast majority of the series. After this point its "Total War" and ROM main enemy are eliminated. The series meandered along for another 2 years but without the Evil Dire Wraiths around it just wasn't the same
2) Preacher (entire series) - This is an incredible series, extremely well plotted with excellent art.
3)Astro City: Family Album - I've really liked all the Astro City trades I've read, but this one really sticks out for me as to what it is like to be a hero and yet try to raise a family
4)LSH (Levitz run) - Ok I'm going to qualify this by adding that its up to giffens return with his puffy lip and 200 pockets and pouchs style. That art style just didn't look good with this version of the legion. This run contains many of my favorite story arcs and is what made it my favorite comic (next to ROM).
5) The Authority (Under New Management) - A superhero team that didn't give a rat's @$$ about what anyone thought as long as they got the job done...and KNEW they had the power to do it. Although many Authority stories have fallen flat for me, this one was firing on all cylinders, great story all around.
6) Marshal Law (Fear and Loathing) - Its crass, vulgar, ultra violent and yet a hilarious take on superheroes. Even all these years later I'm not sure if it was meant to be a spoof of "serious" comics (though there are characters who are obvious send-ups).
7) ok i only have 6 for the list.
From: Fort McMurray | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by LardLad: 6) James Robinson's Starman Robinson made us slacker Gen-Xers feel like we could be something after all!
I'll have lots of comments to add, but had to stop what I was doing to note this one. What a great way to put it Lardy! That's perhaps the best insight I've ever heard to how I felt about Robinson's Starman. What a damn good series!
Thank you, thank you, thank you....donation tray is to your right.
Serously, thanks, Des. As i wrote my capsules, bits of inspiration came to me, and that was one of my better bits. Jack Knight was the definitive Gen-X hero. I can't really think of any other offhand who represented that particular archetype better or even in the same ballpark. All the issues with himself (with the addition of the superhero thing) were just spot-on. Yeah, it was all pretty angsty, but, well, so are Gen-Xers. It was fun seeing Jack find himself and to compare it with my own search to do so. Starman was a lot more than just that, but it was a very resonant aspect of the whole.
(*ahem* Des...donation tray? )
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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