quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: He did this with quite a lot of Vertigo titles at this point like Sandman (he wasn’t impressed though I strongly disagree with him) and Shade the Changing Man (which I do agree with—that one got way too off the wall).
I'm a little hurt by that, actually! I loved Shade from beginning to end! Both Shade and Sandman Mystery Theatre are two of my very favorite Vertigo titles historically. Those two and House of Secrets were incredibly good and, sadly, among the titles that were cancelled by Vertigo. Shade, though, had pretty much played out when it came to an end, but SMT and House of Secrets had plenty of life left in them.
Honestly, Peter Milligan did some great work for Vertigo. I count among them Shade, Enigma and his run on Animal Man after Morrison left.
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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Sandman may have been consistently excellent, but Shade was always my favourite. It was streaky though and I remember at the time noticing the quality dips seemed to co-incide with other Milligan projects coming out. When it was on, though, nothing could touch it. #50 is still one of my favourite books of all time.
Milligan just started on Hellblazer, BTW, and it looks promising so far.
From: Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada | Registered: Sep 2004
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Okay, Lardy, maybe you can clarify something for me. Back in the day, I read a solicitation for the first Morrison/Millar issue of Swamp Thing, that said Chester the lovable hippie had turned into a right-wing cop. Did this actually happen, and were Morrison and Millar responsible?
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While we're talking about some underrated runs, I'd like to bring up a couple I thought were pretty cool. How about Batman? Two runs that stick out to me that actually were published simultaneously were Chuck Dixon & Graham Nolan's run on Detective and Doug Moench & Kelley Jones' run on Batman.
During the period between Knight's End and Cartaclysm, these titles were consistently satisfying in a way they've rarely been before or since. The stories were mostly standalone in that period except for Contagion, which I felt was done pretty well. Cataclysm and No Man's Land broke those runs, and I've never been as satisfied with those titles ever since. Those were some great comics!
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by rouge: Sandman may have been consistently excellent, but Shade was always my favourite. It was streaky though and I remember at the time noticing the quality dips seemed to co-incide with other Milligan projects coming out. When it was on, though, nothing could touch it. #50 is still one of my favourite books of all time.
Milligan just started on Hellblazer, BTW, and it looks promising so far.
Right ON, my bruthah! Shade effin' RAWKed! It's a shame it doesn't get the props it deserves. It should definitely have been collected in its entirety like some of the other books have. Even SMT has gotten that treatment...why not Shade? I swear Chris Bachalo's work on that comic is MILES above anything he's done since!
quote:Originally posted by Stealth: Okay, Lardy, maybe you can clarify something for me. Back in the day, I read a solicitation for the first Morrison/Millar issue of Swamp Thing, that said Chester the lovable hippie had turned into a right-wing cop. Did this actually happen, and were Morrison and Millar responsible?
My memory's a little fuzzy on that, Stealth. I haven't read any of those issues in over a decade. And I wouldn't have recognized the character since this was my first real foray into the book.
I do remember part of the launch of the story with Morrison and Millar had him in some kind of nightmarish dream world, so it's possible there was a twisted version of the character you mention on that world.
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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Thanks, Lardy. Now I can rest easier in the hope that right-wing Chester was just a nightmarish illusion. I really loved Chester as written by Alan Moore (and I say that as somebody who gleefully laughed at Neil the hippie from The Young Ones, so it takes a lot to get me to love a hippie). When I read that solicitation, it struck me as if the writers were trying wind up Chester fans -- as history has shown, both writers, particularly Millar, have made a career of winding up readers, which I think is pretty sad (Cobie, does that help explain why I hate Millar?)
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Another huge fan of the Vertigo Shade series. Lenny is one of my all time favorite comic book characters.
Nancy Collins Swamp Thing work is always overlooked. I really liked what she did with the book. I was spending a lot of time in New Orleans at the time. She captured the spirit of Louisiana in way that no other Swamp Thing writer has.
-------------------- No regrets, Coyote.
From: Missouri | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Jerry: Another huge fan of the Vertigo Shade series. Lenny is one of my all time favorite comic book characters.
Welcom, Jerry! Yes, Lenny was a novelty at the time...a rare lesbian character (really, any homosexual character was rare at the time) in comics. But it wasn't her being a lesbian that made Lenny so great; it was her acerbic wit and her overall "out there"-ness that made her so great! It actually would've been pretty cool if Lenny had met Desire of the Endless at some point!
I was always interested in the storylines that involved Troy Grenzer, the serial killer whose body Shade occupied. Those were always gripping and surprising.
Damn, gotta dig out my old Shades sometime....
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Stealth: Okay, Lardy, maybe you can clarify something for me. Back in the day, I read a solicitation for the first Morrison/Millar issue of Swamp Thing, that said Chester the lovable hippie had turned into a right-wing cop. Did this actually happen, and were Morrison and Millar responsible?
It was near the very end (and was just Millar). It was a satirical "What If" story, used to lampoon the rise of the Neo-Con mindset at the time. The story itself is actually well done and really funny (and sadly a little prophetic). It had all the more bite because it was Chester who made such a radical transformation.
From: Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: He did this with quite a lot of Vertigo titles at this point like Sandman (he wasn’t impressed though I strongly disagree with him) and Shade the Changing Man (which I do agree with—that one got way too off the wall).
I'm a little hurt by that, actually! I loved Shade from beginning to end! Both Shade and Sandman Mystery Theatre are two of my very favorite Vertigo titles historically. Those two and House of Secrets were incredibly good and, sadly, among the titles that were cancelled by Vertigo. Shade, though, had pretty much played out when it came to an end, but SMT and House of Secrets had plenty of life left in them.
Honestly, Peter Milligan did some great work for Vertigo. I count among them Shade, Enigma and his run on Animal Man after Morrison left.
You're not going to believe this, and in fact, our friendship may be over . I've never read (1) Sandman Mystery Theatre nor (2) House of Secrets (Vertigo version). I know, I know, forgive me! This has been on the 'must read' list for so long! Especially SMT because I love the Golden Age Sandman and so think he's work better in his original noir setting.
I need a patented Lardy brief recap / dressing down / enthusiastic post to get me started! I'm still trying to catch up on Scalped, Walking Dead, Madman & the Atomics (thanks Kent!) and pick up new things, but perhaps its time I started a new buying project?
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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PS - I read Shade when I was about 18 years old. Perhaps my POV has changed? I can easily give the early issues a second chance as my Dad still has them...
PPS -
quote:Originally posted by LardLad: While we're talking about some underrated runs, I'd like to bring up a couple I thought were pretty cool. How about Batman? Two runs that stick out to me that actually were published simultaneously were Chuck Dixon & Graham Nolan's run on Detective and Doug Moench & Kelley Jones' run on Batman.
During the period between Knight's End and Cataclysm, these titles were consistently satisfying in a way they've rarely been before or since. The stories were mostly standalone in that period except for Contagion, which I felt was done pretty well. Cataclysm and No Man's Land broke those runs, and I've never been as satisfied with those titles ever since. Those were some great comics!
This period of the Batman books is nothing short of utterly fantastic. There was a time in my life (and I'm still not that far away from it) that I was totally into Batman in the same way I am with Legion, could resite Batamn trivia chapter & verse, and completely was immersed in the books. In fact, when I originally began posting as Cobalt Kid on the DCMBs, I was posting on the Batman boards too. Anyway, I came in picking comics off the stands about a year and a half before Knightfall (and I was still in my EARLY teens at this point) and my Dad let me go back and reread the Alan Grant/Norm Breyfogle issues, the first 40 issues of Legends of the Dark Knight (GRADE A EXCELLENT) and the first few issues of Shadow of the Bat (also GRADE A EXCELLENT), and I was just blown away by the quality. I thought they were all fantastic, I thought the “Seduction of the Gun” one-shot was brilliant, “Vengeance of Bane” was awesome and then I completely was immersed in Knightfall when that finally came around. Like many, I totally bought into the trickery of Azreal as Batman and was outraged, and learned a lesson that I keep to this day—that people replacing Batman, Superman, etc. are only a passing trend and it will not last. Well, after Knightsend, I was still in my teens, still totally into Batman and in the run you mentioned, really got to see some damn great stories at the time. During this time, Chuck Dixon was writing Robin too which was also excellent.
I didn’t actually mind some of those events like Contagion, No Man’s Land, etc., as many were well done. However, they disrupted the flow somewhat by having such larger storylines. That brief era you mentioned really was kick-ass.
I’ve actually gone back and reread all of the Batman comics from the late 80’s to the mid/late 90’s. Still excellent.
[ January 23, 2009, 07:17 AM: Message edited by: Cobalt Kid ]
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: You're not going to believe this, and in fact, our friendship may be over . I've never read (1) Sandman Mystery Theatre nor (2) House of Secrets (Vertigo version). I know, I know, forgive me! This has been on the 'must read' list for so long! Especially SMT because I love the Golden Age Sandman and so think he's work better in his original noir setting.
I need a patented Lardy brief recap / dressing down / enthusiastic post to get me started! I'm still trying to catch up on Scalped, Walking Dead, Madman & the Atomics (thanks Kent!) and pick up new things, but perhaps its time I started a new buying project?
Des, SMT is a must for any fan of Wesley Dodds and of the pulp/noir genre! There's a real viscerous quality, a brutality to the storytelling that fits the pulp genre very well. It also gives a very eye-opening look at the era, its social mores and its underbelly.
Plus, Wesley and Diann Belmont and the evolution of their relationship are as much fun to watch as whatever bad guy they happen to be tracking down! Wes is kind of a nerdy, endearing type who we see is often unprepared for the job. He gets shot, gadgets don't always work and he's often lucky to escape with his life. Dian is woman not content to fall into the mold that '30s society wants her to fall into--wife, mother, housekeeper--those are not for her. She's as integral to the title as Wes.
The arcs are typically broken down into 4 issues with Guy Davis as the main artist and others rotating in every 2nd or 3rd arc. The stories are superb pulp/noir akin to Brubaker's Criminal, but even better, I'd say, because of the ongoing development of Wes and Dian. And it really gets better as it goes along! Top-notch writing from Matt Wagner and Steve Seagal and genre-appropriate appearances from Hourman and the Crimson Avenger!
Make sure you put 'em on your to-read list ASAP!!!
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: PS - I read Shade when I was about 18 years old. Perhaps my POV has changed? I can easily give the early issues a second chance as my Dad still has them...
Honestly, as good as those early issues are, I think the series gets LOTS better after the focus is off the American Scream and more squarely focussed on Shade, Kathy and Lenny. Agree or disagree, Jerry and rouge?
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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I think parts of the "Hotel: Shade" era were some of the best in the series, but "On the Road" is equally good. That's not to say there weren't some issues of the "American Scream" that knocked my socks off. It was a lot more spotty after the Hotel, and despite some good individual issues you could feel the momentum dissipating (Maybe I just missed KAthy too much).
From: Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada | Registered: Sep 2004
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I read a freiend's House of Secrets when it came out, and figured I'd wait for the TPB, if one ever came out. Only HOS I have is from one or more of the Vertigo compilation books (probably Winter's Edge #1, I'm guessing, where HOS was the framing story in which others were framed).
Shade's heyday was the Shade, Lenny and Kathy triumvirate era, especially with Bachalo art (Doran was good, too, epsecially the Hemmingway/Joyce 2-parter).
I loved the concept of SMT, but Davis coming and going was a turn-off, as fill-in artists were not of caliber, as I recall.
Aside from Dark Detective and the odd special/mini, I've found Batman pretty much unreadable since Miller/Mazzucchelli Year One.
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 2003
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. I've never read (1) Sandman Mystery Theatre nor (2) House of Secrets (Vertigo version). I know, I know, forgive me! This has been on the 'must read' list for so long! Especially SMT because I love the Golden Age Sandman and so think he's work better in his original noir setting.
