quote:Originally posted by CJ Taylor: Cobie, a weekly series, looking at the different eras of the DCU and it's mystery men is a great idea. Much like 52, it'll have 4-5 running stories, each focused on a different time, with a different lead. It'd be a great way to showcase those timely characters, maybe even build some interest in them.
1) Cinnamon and Nighthawk cleaning up crime in the Old West. GrayPal would write it, Cooke can draw it.
2) Dr. Fate and Speed Saunders explore the dawn of the 20th century.
3) The Blackhawks & Sgt Rock fighting the Nazi scum in Europe. Chuck Dixon writes it and Joe Bennet makes it look pretty.
4) The Challengers of the Unknown explore a nuclear new world. Mark Waid tells us how it was while Mark Pajarillo shows us.
You know the Hawks, Will Magnus, Niles Caulder, and such tangent characters would occasionally pop up to give the story some breadth and us fans moments to geek out over.
Not saying Cobie, myself or anyone here should be running DC. But with DCU Legacies coming out, ya got to wonder if someone there is reading this board.
From: Denver, CO | Registered: May 2004
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posted
Lately, a lot of things have gotten me thinking about something.
Compare Len Wein's astonishing return to comics writing with his JLA arc and now with DCU: Legacies to the way that other writers lose their spark, seemingly for it never to return.
I'm thinking in particular of Peter David, who only a year ago was the subject of a lovefest in this very thread instigated by yours truly. In hindsight, he was already turning out work below his usual standards, but at the time it seemed only temporary. But now? Can anyone, even his biggest fans (and I'm one of them), say that his heart still seems to be in his comics work?
PAD has weathered many well-documented professional and personal setbacks over the years which have sometimes impacted his work. But so has Wein -- his disastrous early 90s stint as Disney Comics EiC as an example of the former, his house burning down last year as an example of the latter. And yet he's currently doing the best writing of his career.
Which makes me wonder: why do some creators go into freefall and never come back up, while others, albeit far fewer, do? Is there hope for the Mark Waids and James Robinsons...and the PADs? Is Wein a symbol of hope, or an exception to the rule?
Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
I was all prepared to give PAD the benefit of the doubt, with all the crossovers, and characters being snatched away by editorial fiat (Rahne), etc. but, really, I can't even muster a convincing apology for this run.
Every 'fight' ends with some smarter / stronger / better threat that X-Factor never really beats, as it either gets bored and leaves, or something happens that makes it not be a total massacre.
At some point, I kinda want the heroes to win something. Conclusively. I'm beyond tired of deus ex machina villains *I've never heard of* like Tryp or the dude with all the mutant powers ever or the old lady with the book who nearly sank Utopia.
X-Factor's last *good* story was in the Madrox limited series, IMO.
As a fan of Peter David, that's not fun for me to admit.
Registered: Aug 2006
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
Most of the writers I'm really familiar with, I haven't read much from lately.
We're a few months out before I can say whether or not Levitz has or has not 'lost it,' for instance, and I haven't read anything new from Wolfman or Alan Davis or Walt Simonson or Alan Moore for years.
From what I've seen of the new Chris Claremont X-Men launch, he's pretty much lost it, 'though, although I sometimes think that, without someone like Cockrum or Byrne to dress up his ideas, he's never been all that dazzling, since he's got a lot of storylines, even back in 'the old days' that are just spectacularly bad... I think he can work really well, on a good team, but, on his own, not so much.
Many hot trendy writers (Bendis, Millar, Winnick, Johns), I'm not entirely convinced ever 'had it,' so I'd be a poor choice to judge whether or not they 'lost it.'
I'm not sure if Frank Miller 'lost it,' or if he's still telling the same stories, and our tastes have changed enough that we don't like them anymore...
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Alan Moore's last two installments of "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen", while not perfect, are still well worth reading.
Frank Miller has always been overrated in my opinion, but his recent work shows such contempt for readers and for his chosen genres that I'm surprised he still gets published.
posted
I hope PAD will eventually reclaim his mojo in the same way Len Wein did. I actually think its a bit of a natural cycle, where writers lose their way (either by losing their inspiration, not challenging themselves or just feeling sorry for themselves as writers often do) and then many eventually reclaiming their glory.
I do not collect the Marvel comics that are adaptations of classic stories but from what I understand, Roy Thomas writes all of these and they are actually *quite* good. My CBS guy told me that. I probably won't buy but that makes me happy. Because Roy has cranked out many a crappy story so I have hopes he can reclaim his glory days in a way.
In the 1950's, comic book publishers had written Jack Kirby off as a has-been who hadn't had a hit since Young Romance and then boom, he created Challengers of the Unknown and then went on to do the lion's share of creating Marvel Comics as we know it.
It's hard to say--is Len an exception to the rule or the best example of it? I'm trying to rack my brain searching for another good example but I'm having trouble.
Roger Stern is doing good Spider-Man stories still but I don't think Roger ever really lost it--he just wasn't getting work from creators for awhile until the Spider-editors brought him back.
Oh, one I think is making a comeback like Len: Kurt Busiek. I think he had a rough patch where I wasn't enjoying his work as much but lately his stuff seems to be back on the rise.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Regarding Frank Miller, I agree that his current work seems to either be the independent stuff that he writes only for himself or the stuff for the big two that I honestly feel is his way at saying 'fuck you' to Marvel and DC and fans who feel loyalty to the companies over the creators. I kind of love Frank Miller and his work and I've read hundreds of interviews with him, and I think he's certainly vindictive enough to convince DC to let him write a Batman story and then purposely make it ridiculous as a way to screw over DC and Batman fans.
I find it funny in a way, but also a little deserving of a
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I agree that Roger Stern still has it, but he hasn't wowed me yet the way Len Wein has. The day that he does may come sooner rather than later -- at least that's what I hope.
I haven't read Roy Thomas's literary adaptations either. The last time I think Roy really seemed to have the fire inside was during the Todd McFarlane issues of Infinity Inc., and that was a looooong time ago.
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Regarding Frank Miller, I agree that his current work seems to either be the independent stuff that he writes only for himself or the stuff for the big two that I honestly feel is his way at saying 'fuck you' to Marvel and DC and fans who feel loyalty to the companies over the creators. I kind of love Frank Miller and his work and I've read hundreds of interviews with him, and I think he's certainly vindictive enough to convince DC to let him write a Batman story and then purposely make it ridiculous as a way to screw over DC and Batman fans.
I find it funny in a way, but also a little deserving of a
posted
The Frank Miller thing is funny because the Sin City movie made him the darling of the comic book community again, but internet-writers and bloggers seemed to have forgot that he basically hates comic book companies, fans and anyone who isn't also an artist (and even then, it's hard to say).
It was like the Joker becomes the new Mayor of Gotham and the people say: "hey why don't you plan the parade on Saturday?"
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I think the Spirit movie eradicated any remaining goodwill towards Miller.
And I think you made a good point in a previous post about writers feeling sorry for themselves. I think this may be one of PAD's current problems. I stopped reading his blog a long time ago because the tone of his posts was getting so miserable.
It's also worth noting that while Wein was being one of DC's best editors during the 80s (New Teen Titans, All Star Squadron, Camelot 3000, Batman & the Outsiders, Watchmen, and his biggest coup of all, discovering Alan Moore and putting Moore on Swamp Thing) he was also writing Green Lantern and Blue Beetle stories that were not exactly setting the world on fire. And that after the aforementioned Disney disaster, he spent nearly two decades concentrating on TV writing.
posted
PAD is the person I was thinking of. I've been reading his "But I Digress..." columns since the early 1990's and he's become so winey in the last few years, and really comes across like he's feeling sorry for himself.
He says things like "if I was British I might get lumped into the same category as Neil Gaiman and the rest", or "woe is me, I need crossovers for the sales but I secretly don't want to partake in them".
He is also always reading the internet and getting upset by posters who attack him. This goes back to the mid-90's when I still had never even logged on the internet and is still going on now. He should have learned by now. Honestly--let it go! Stop getting distracted and get back to work!
The internet is full of millions of people who want to just say something and get a response; they often really don't feel the way they do about the topics but are just looking for someone to respond. PAD falls into this trap everytime and then looks for sympathy on his blog. Enough! If it bothers you that much then act like John Byrne.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
PAD's openness has definitely proven to be a double-edged sword.
Cobie, what are your thoughts on other writers that most people would agree have been on a downward spiral for a long time -- Mark Waid, James Robinson, et al?
posted
Some writers definitely get burned out after there work has been continuously published for a long, long time. For them, I would recommend taking a break from writing for at least a year if they can afford to. Either that, or drop whatever they're doing and pursue something creator-owned.
I know PAD has Fallen Angel, but all indications are that he's burned out on that as well. I think PAD can afford to stop working for awhile with all the success he's had in comics and in novels. I think an extended break would do him a world of good.
As for Mark Waid, he's definitely already experiencing a rebirth at Boom! While Irredeemable and Incorruptible aren't as good as the best stuff he's done in the past, they're a huge improvement over his more recent stuff. The best sign yet is that both of those series are getting better as he goes on. And according to Cobie, The Unknown, which I haven't read yet, is right up there with the best work he's ever done. Right, Cobester?
Other creators worth mentioning who've had a recent resurgence are Keith Giffen and Dan Jurgens. Both really went off the radar for a long, extended spell but have returned with renewed vigor and relevance recently (Keith for a long pretty period of time now, since around 52 and Annihilation). Matt Wagner, too! He was definitely off the radar a few years as well before suddenly re-emerging.
Len Wein, huh? I was never a big fan, but I've purchased Legacies and expect to have a good read based on your word of mouth. CBR was a little less kind, saying that it was like he was aping Marvels. Fair or unfair?
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Totally unfair regarding the comparison to Marvels. It really isn't similar at all I think, certainly not after one issue.
Lardy, you bring up a whole slew of examples I was trying to come up with! Matt Wagner, certainly, with his Green Hornet: Year One, Zorro and Madame Xanadu all being A+ level material that ranks among the very best in the industry. I will now buy *anything* he writes right now because I'm so impressed by him lately. Dan Jurgens as well--his artwork is as good as ever and his writing went from a longtime lull to hitting a level it's never had before. I thought his Booster Gold was nothing short of terrific.
Of course, the real best example right now is Keith Giffen. Keith was basically personna non-grata in the late 90's and early part of the 2000's; he was almost out of the industry it seemed. Then came Marvel's Annhilation which he spear-headed (inspired by his Thanos mini), and then he took over as art director on 52 and that just kicked off this wide-reaching Giffen rebirth at DC. Now he's got Doom Patrol and seems to have a hand in all kinds of things. And I think the quality is also really there too. He seems fresh and not repeating himself--the classic example of 'reinvigorated'.
James Robinson I feel is really terrible these days. Just awful and I don't know what happened. He left comics and went to the film industry--had a series of bombs and disasters and probably became jaded--returned to comics thinking maybe he could fall back on this genre and IMO has just been phoning it in. He thinks by putting in references to obscure continuity he can get the fans to be impressed, but guess what? This isn't 1995 anymore. Comic book fans have the internet and we know just as much as comic book creators do now. I know my Golden Age continuity possibly better than James Robinson. I'm not impressed when Tomahawk shows up in JLA. I'd be impressed if he could write a good story. His work lacks any sense of originality now. For a writer intent on bringing back classic characters, I think he should focus on bringing back classic story-telling.
Mark Waid definitely went through his own 'fade' for a few years. I personally thought his FF run was very weak and was the culmination of his low point, only outdone by his awful Legion threeboot. But then he went to BOOM! and Lardy says, he's experiencing a bit of a rebirth--but I'd add, its only the very beginnings of it.
Waid's Unknown is VERY good, and among the best stuff he's ever done IMO. Waid in a non-superhero comic just works perfectly here. I'm not reading those other titles Lardy is, but I am reading his occasional Spider-Man stories, and they've been very hit or miss--a few good ones but more weaker ones. So what I think is Waid has had a couple of bad years but he's turning it around; we're seeing the beginnings of it but he's not quite there yet. He needs to keep focusing on his creator-owned work at BOOM and regain his mojo. I think it'll happen. He suffers a little of the PAD syndrome in that he feels sorry for himself and thinks internet fandom owes him some sense of decorum. (Grow up. It's the internet--its the Roman mob of this era.) I'm hoping he does another Unknown mini and then starts up yet another franchise.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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