posted
Interesting comparison between JLA and Avengers, Lardy, and, for the most part, I agree, even though I was a huge JLA fan for many years.
There's just something cool about "big guns" like Superman, Batman, Green Lantern, Flash, and Wonder Woman being part of the same organization, where they are peers. This type of relationship is not found in their regular books, where each is a star.
Of course, the JLA was different from most other super-teams in that it was treated like a professional organization and not a club. The Avengers had this distinction as well, but their stories often developed from the personal relationships of the characters (e.g., the Wanda/Vision/Mantis/Swordsman quadrangle); the JLA was strictly professional: Its members kept their private lives out of the book.
There were exceptions of course, such as the Green Arrow/Hawkman feud or the GA/Black Canary romance. If anything, the JLA could have used more of these types of interactions as sometimes the characters did seem too distant, too uninvolved in the stories.
There were also occasional instances in which JLA membership became important in a character's own comic. When Wonder Woman sought to rejoin the JLA, her former teammates monitored her Hercules-like tests in her series. The rarity of such instances, however, furthered the professional attitude of these characters: They were capable, independent heroes. Working together or being influenced by events in the group book called for a special occasion indeed.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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My favorite Justice League of America story is called “The Man Who Murdered Santa Claus”. I bought it right before Christmas in 1973 when I was nine years old. It was probably only the second or third JLA issue I ever read. It was the lead story in the first of the 100 page spectacular issues. I remember being out of school for Christmas break and staying with my dad for the day. He was the postmaster of a small rural Missouri town. It was snowing and I was hanging out on a blanket by the radiator in the old one room post office. He gave me some money and I ran across the street to the drug store to purchase the comic, which kept me entertained for the rest of the day.
The story was written by Len Wein and drawn by Dick Dillin. It was fun and horrifying all at the same time. It opened with Superman and Batman getting ready to take a dime store Santa to an orphan’s Christmas party. There was an explosion and the Santa was killed. He died with a key in his hand, wrapped in mistletoe with a note attached that was full of clues. We got glimpses of how the Leauguers were spending Christmas eve – Flash in the future, Elongated Man scuba diving with his wife. Hal Jordan slipped in the shower and knocked himself out as he attempted to answer Superman and Batman’s call. The ring sought out John Stewart to substitute as the Green Lantern for the adventure. This was my first exposure to Stewart and, to this day, my favorite appearance of his.
The clue led the League to St. Louis, where much of the action took place. The team had a conversation on top of the Gateway Arch. That made the story even more relatable to me. St. Louis was only a couple of hours from my home. I had been there and seen the arch on special occasions. It was a thrill thinking that these super heroes were so close to home.
Much of the story focused on Green Arrow and Black Canary trying to teach Red Tornado the meaning of Christmas, and Stewart trying to prove himself to the League. The villain was the Key. It appeared as if everyone was dead but the Phantom Stranger mysteriously appeared, saved the day, and then disappeared. In the epilogue, Black Canary gave Red Tornado a new costume as a Christmas present. Amazing stuff. I was already familiar with Superman and Batman, and I’m sure was drawn to the cover by their images. I finished the story as a fan of Green Arrow, Black Canary, Red Tornado and John Stewart. I was intrigued by this Phantom Stranger guy. That’s what the League has represented to me since then. A place to enjoy a good story with comfortable faces while making new friends along the way.
The fun didn’t stop there, though. The issue also contained a Justice Society reprint. It was my first exposure to them, and that story remains one of my favorite JSA stories. It also reprinted Zatanna’s first guest appearance with the JLA. What a treat. And yet another character that I met for the first time that afternoon and ended up loving for life.
[ October 28, 2009, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: Jerry ]
-------------------- No regrets, Coyote.
From: Missouri | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Jerry: My favorite Justice League of America story is called “The Man Who Murdered Santa Claus”.
I forgot about this story, but it is a classic! Thanks for the memories, Jerry.
I started reading the JLA a few issues earlier, with # 107--the first half of the JLA/JSA team-up that reintroduced the Freedom Fighters. Like you and the 100-Page Spectacular (# 110, if memory serves), this story introduced me to a plethora of heroes I'd never heard of before: Uncle Sam, the Ray, the Human Bomb (FF), Hourman (JSA), and Red Tornado and Black Canary (JLA), among others. For that reason, it stands out as one of my favorites although, in hindsight, it was probably no better or worse than stories that came before or after. The stories that have been most meaningful to me tend to be stories I read when I was very young, when the whole comics experience was brand new.
Two issues later, Hawkman left--which I regarded as one of the worst comics I ever read at the time. At the age of nine, I was not prepared for real-world changes in comic book heroes. But I think that issue and concurrent events happening in LSH (the wedding of Chuck and Lu, the death of Lyle) helped me understand that even heroes were not above change. (Besides, Hawkman returned a mere eight issues later, in a story far less memorable.)
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Jerry: My favorite Justice League of America story is called “The Man Who Murdered Santa Claus”.
You know, I just read this story for the first time about three years ago, when I was rereading the late Silver Age / early 1970’s run of JLA. I also thought it was a terrific story, and a great example of a done in one tale that was dynamic, exciting and at moments very poignant. Its Len Wein at his finest. You can basically dig through so many of his 1970’s stories—so often done in one or two-parters, and find some real gems (at DC or Marvel). I also love the use of John Stewart here and think it must have been very exciting to see that when the issue came off the stands. Of course, at this point Green Arrow, Black Canary and Red Tornado were just so engaging to read about. All three were peaking at this point in their publication history from a creative perspective IMO, even though none had their own solo series!
quote:Originally posted by Stealth: Cobie, I look forward to your thoughts on the Morrison era and beyond, but more importantly, your post has awakened my curiosity enough to give JLI a second chance, even given my general distaste for Giffen. I've requested all four available trades from my library, and I'll share my thoughts on them as I read them. And I hope that maybe my post awakened your curiosity enough to give The Obsidian Age a second chance (glad to hear you like The Obsidian Age, CJ.)
Glad you’re checking out the JLI stories, Stealth! I think you’ll be impressed, at least for the early issues of the run.
As for my opinion of the “JLA” ages, here they are. By this point I was actively reading JLA off the stands along with every other DC comic being published those days, and had been for several years.
The Morrison Era This was my first exposure to Grant Morrison that caused me to check and see his name (I realized I read some of his more obscure work earlier). It subsequently led me to check out his Doom Patrol, Animal Man, etc. And the reason is, I was completely and utterly blown away by how awesome the Morrison JLA stories were. It was everything that comics were not at that point in time: full-on action and drama, problems on a scale almost incomprehensible and all the major players pitching in. It was kind of like taking a Jack Kirby approach to the traditional JLA-type line-up, but doing so in the modern era and making no apologies for it. And it was awesome. The initial White Martian storyline is one the great JLA storylines of all time, and it has just about every type of great action / suspense / mystery / adventure aspect of comic books in four issues. And it set the stage of what was to come: Morrison taking the over the top science-fiction of the Silver Age or the incredibly dramatic mysteries of the Golden Age and doing them in yet a whole new way. I loved it.
As for the JLAers themselves, it was like a breath of fresh air to see the “Big 7” again, and yet it was the Big 7 of that particular era, including Kyle Rayner (and briefly Conner Hawke). Morrison took the PAD-Aquaman, whom was serious, regal and brooding and firmly entrenched that personality into Aquaman’s role in the JLA. He was no longer a joke here; he was pretty much a potential other leader that could command Superman and Batman. Lardy already mentioned Morrison’s effect on Batman, and it was truly awe-inspiring to behold. I also think Morrison was able to inject more life and personality into Kyle-GL than anyone else in the 90’s; I read every single issue with Kyle as GL and they were often boring and whiney with not much happening; here, Morrison had him doing things. When Morrison later added several others to the mix, it made things even larger scale than before, particularly with Zauriel, Orion and Barda. I also liked that he incorporated Steel as a big gun—Steel being yet another major character of the 1990’s. I also found Huntress’s inclusion interesting, including her dismissal by Batman at the close. And of course, it was truly Grant Morrison who made Plastic Man popular again for the first time since the 1940’s. Plas has become associated with the JLA pretty much as well as any of the Silver Age members (not just Ralph but any of them) and that’s because of Grant. It made me a fan of the character for the first time, even though it was a gradual, begrudging process. Grant also had a great issue with the Atom that I loved.
The major criticism that can be wagered against Morrison is the lack of character moments in the series. That’s understandable to a degree but not quite true. For example, Flash, GL and Aquaman in the Rock of Ages storyline had some subtle character moments throughout, interacting with one another, even if it wasn’t Earth-shattering stuff. If anything, I think Morrison (in his kooky comics as a living breathing history persona) was simply following the Gardner Fox approach to JLA: story over characterization. Just like his X-Men was the polar opposite. After all, there is no middle ground with Grant.
So yeah, I loved it. Is it my favorite era of all time? Well, no, but I wouldn’t complain if he became ongoing writer of JLA again.
The Mark Waid Era A strange thing happened in the 1990’s/ early part of this decade. Mark Waid, who was basically one of the great writers of the 1990’s and someone whose name on a cover could almost guaranty me reading it right away, became a writer whose work I increasingly began to dislike. And it might have actually happened when he took over JLA. To back up, I’ll reiterate I loved Waid’s stuff, particularly his Flash work. When he stepped in for Grant and did the Adam Strange story in the late teens of JLA, I was floored by how excellent it was. One of the best JLA/Adam Strange stories of all time. He then did a story about numbers and luck, with the Atom guest-starring and it was equally as good. Just damn good comics that made me think between Grant and Waid, the DCU was experiencing a “Great Recovery” after years of annoyingly-bad stories across the board. But when Waid took over for Grant and slimmed the membership back down to tell more personal, character-driven stories…well, it basically was boring.
It wasn’t terrible by any means. But something was lost and it was incredibly noticeable. It had lost the excitement factor; the tension; the edge of your seat feeling. It was like a stud horse going lame. And it was noticeable almost immediately. Kyle became whiney again. Aquaman became a background player. Martian Manhunter became “good ol’ J’onn J’onnz, heart and soul of the JLA…yawn…’scuse me while I’m bored to tears”. And then Batman went from being the most effective and badass hero of them all to being just a plain asshole. Because much like Marvel’s greatest failures of *this* decade, a good writer will do something extreme with a character and another writer will try to follow-up but do it in an even more extreme way—or worse, do it without the original essence used—and it just doesn’t work. And all the good Morrison had done with Batman helped take the “Batman is a guy that doesn’t play with others” and turned it into “Batman is a Dick”. By the time Waid left, all of the hoopla surrounding the JLA was gone; the title had basically been deflated to what it was prior to Morrison.
The Joe Kelly Era Perhaps I will give this a second try based on comments in this thread. And perhaps because Waid was such a letdown after Morrison, it was unfair to Joe Kelly to step in and in the sense of many readers such as me, be given the responsibility to ‘get this ship back on course’. To be honest, I don’t so much remember the actual stories (other than the bigger ones) but I remember scenes and characters. For example, I think Kelly’s strongest usage was with Plastic Man, and Kelly took what Grant started and made Plas even more endearing, even giving him a cool relationship with Batman that made me wish he could do some Brave and Bold stories with the two. He also did a great job with some other random characters, like Jason Blood, that I thought was cool. But on the other hand, I found Faith extremely annoying and I hated his usage of Green Arrow and Hawkgirl which just rang so false to me. I did, however, also find Manitou Raven to be really interesting, and I really liked Dawn, his wife—and was interested afterwards to see her continue on as Manitou Dawn after Raven’s death. I found the Obsidian Age to be exciting, remember thinking it was dragging on too long. Of course, Kelly was trying to find an exciting and interesting way to restore Aquaman and Atlantis back to life after they so stupidly were destroyed in the awful Our Worlds at War miniseries. Major Disaster coming on was something I initially thought was cool but ultimately began to wonder why he even bothered.
I’m a fan of Joe Kelly’s work, and lately in a big way. I first became so because I thought his run on Action Comics was really ground-breaking at the time, and in fact think Action #775 is probably the best Superman story in the last 20 years. However, his X-Men work was pretty lackluster, and I never read his Deadpool stuff. Cut to the modern era, where I think his Spider-Man stuff is the absolute best Amazing Spider-Man material being produced; and his independent work such as Four Eyes is really unique and well-done. I even met Joe Kelly in San Diego when I was a little too embarrassed to bother him and Caliente decided I was being really geeky and shy and forced me to push my way into the line and say hi, using her charms to distract him to come over and talk to me and then we took a picture together. It was really cool.
But his JLA run never was something that jumped out at me. Then again, maybe that second look is all it will take. Especially without the Waid stuff in my mind beforehand and without me being at college and being all distracted his time.
Post Joe Kelly, every writer has a JLA story Failure. The Denny O’Neal gorilla story was almost the worst JLA story ever—until the John Byrne Doom Patrol one. Awful. Cancellation was indeed imminent.
Crisis of Conscience Enter Geoff “don’t let the internet fool you, I’m really as good as people say I am” Johns, and the best JLA story to be published in years. Sure, Identity Crisis created all kinds of terrible retcons in JLA history that were designed to shock and awe you, much like an George Bush era press release (in other words, if you like Identity Crisis, I’m actually comparing you to being one of Dick Cheney’s interns). But Geoff came in and added some characterization; some sense of progress and understanding; dynamics and excitement; Red Tornado being awesome again; Zatanna having a point of view (wow, who’d have thunk it?), and so many other things. Not only did Geoff use the classic line-up, he did it in the vacuum of modern events—and he did it well! Too bad it was just one story-arc and it led into Infinite Crisis and beyond. Because it sure was exciting.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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Justice League of America #200 was my very first super-hero comic and remains to this day my favourite comic of all time.
From back-issue bins (which is how I got all my comics back then) I was able to get a complete run of that series from around issue #85 or so on and about 50% of the issues before that too.
The JLA thus became my first favourite property in comics (and Green Arrow my first favourite hero).
To say I've got opinions about how this great team has been handled over the years would be an understatement but I unfortunately don't have the time at the moment to give this topic the attention it deserves.
So, for now, I'm gonna end this post with a TO BE CONTINUED...
From: Australia | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
As promised, here are my thoughts on the first three volumes of JLI:
What I liked -- Fire, Ice, and Big Barda, although they don't fully compensate for the appaling portrayals of Black Canary and Dr. Light II in the early issues; that said, the first three issues were probably the ones I enjoyed the most, thanks to a well-balanced and semi-serious tone and good use of obscure characters (Avengers analogs from the Silver Age); Batman's line "The only person really qualified to command an International League is the only one of us who really sees this planet as a unified whole -- and that's you, J'onn," made me smile, as did Batman's portrayal in general, which only underlines how much of a smug jerk he was under Morrison; J'onn's portrayal was good, too, and Mark Waid went on to draw on J'onns slyly dry sense of humor here for "JLA: Year One"; and I found Rocket Red very likable, although some of his dialogue was a bit too Yakov Smirnoff; overall, I can see where this series infulenced later works that I liked, such as Peter David's "X-Factor", and I give it credit for that.
Now, having said that...
What I didn't like -- I've always hated Booster Gold and the Post-Englehart/Pre-Johns incarnation of Guy Gardner, and these stories didn't change my mind; I don't like Blue Beetle, either, although he was tolerable before Booster showed up; as the series goes on, the jokes get piled on thicker and thicker with an increasingly heavy hand; books like this walk a fine line, and I think most of the time it falls on the wrong side of that line; there's a lack of verve and a lack of urgency which are frustrating, and the stories tend to peter out rather than climax.
In the end, I can see where this series must have seemed refreshing in the context of the late 80s (something Giffen notes in his surprisingly honest and self-deprecating introduction to the first volume), but now that irony is the rule rather than the exception, it just seems like another super-hero book.
posted
I'm actually surprised, Stealth, that you let my JLA/Avengers comparison & contrast (from the previous page) go without comment, as you are such an ardent fan of both franchises! Could it be you overlooked that post?
Anyhoo, pre-JLI, there are three JLA stories that stand out in my (admittedly limited) JLA reading history, and both feature teamups with JSA:
The first was drawn by George Perez (before I had any idea who that was!) and featured individual members from both teams being picked off by the Secret Society of Super Villains and being taken to limbo to power some kind of contraption. I haven't read the story in ages (and don't even own it because I sold all my DC's to buy more X-Men when I was around 12! ), but I loved the way it showcased all the heroes and made the SSoSV look so effective and dangerous. It was also my intro to the Ultra-Humanite, and I've yet to be as impressed with any successive appearance I've seen of the character.
I picked up JLA for a few issues there and continued thru 200 which was a callback to the JLA origin story. Perez was involved with that one also, and I recall it pitted a mind-controlled (or something) Big 7 against the nextgen JLAers like Ollie, Dinah and Firestorm. It was a fun story and let you know a lot about the JLA and their history in the process.
The second was the classic Seven Soldiers of Victory story that I discovered reprinted in any one of the numerous reprint digests DC used to put out. (It was thru those digests that I became educated on the Legion's background from the beginning even as I became enthralled by Levitz and Giffen's Legion as it came out fresh.) It was a perfect example of a team-up story done right. And the revelation of a (admittedly minor) character's death as the mystery unravelled was a novelty for me as a young comic reader unaccustomed to seeing heroes die (those were the days ). Nice story just bursting with rich DC history!
I also read that Santa Claus story in one of those digests. I remember a lot of the details, like the Key and John Stewart, etc., but I can't remember for the life of me what the outcome was! I guess the Key killed the guy?!?!
Anyhow, that's just about ALL that stands out for me about any JLA in my spotty reading history before Giffen, DeMatteis and Maguire came aboard.
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Lardi, I didn't overlook the post, I just felt that this thread should stay focused on the JLA, especially since JLA-super-fan Blacula hasn't shared his thoughts yet.
Glad to hear you like # 200 and the Seven Soldiers of Victory/JLA/JSA team-up, as I like them too. Have you read the recent JLA 80-Page Special? At first I felt it was too much of a rehash of 7SoV/JLA/JSA, but after discussing it with Cobie in the JLA ongoing thread, I've come to feel that even it's a ripoff, at least it rips off a really good story.
And seeing as you mentioned # 200 and the JLA/JSA vs. SSoSV story, a couple other stories from the Gerry Conway/George Perez era -- the JLA/JSA/New Gods team-up* and the Origin of Red Tornado -- are both in my JLA Top 40.
*Can't forget to mention that the first chapter was Dick Dillin's final JLA issue (R.I.P.)
posted
I loved the Origin of Red Tornado story,I remember Firestorm(Ronnie)playing a big part in it.
-------------------- I tried to rip their soul out.I tried to make them forget Superman. But they won't.
From: Kentucky | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Stealth: Lardi, I didn't overlook the post, I just felt that this thread should stay focused on the JLA, especially since JLA-super-fan Blacula hasn't shared his thoughts yet.
Please don't let me inhibit discussion in this thread Stealth.
I'm stuck working on my parents' farm at the moment and won't have access to my JLA collection or much time to think/write about it until I get back up to Perth in a couple of weeks.
Hopefully I'll be able to pop in a quick aside about the JLA during whatever you're talking about then.
I will quickly add though that I also loved that 'Origin of the Red Tornado' story. One of my favourite stories from what is probably my favourite period in JLA history.
From: Australia | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Okay, Blacula, but I hope you'll still share JLA thoughts sometime in the future, if not in this thread, than in the official JLA thread.
quote:Originally posted by Lardi the Incorruptible: Interestingly enough, as big of a DC guy as I am, I haven't really had the most extensive JLA experience on my resume. The only two eras that I bought the title longterm were during the JLI Giffen/DeMatteis era and the Morrison/Porter run.
Why the JLA hasn't pulled me in consistently is difficult to nail down, but generally (with the above two exceptions) I'd say that JLA often just didn't seem to matter as a title within the larger DCU. It was often just an excuse to put the biggest draws in the DCU into one title with what seemed very little of consequence happening in and of itself. Obviously, there are exceptions, particularly the importance of the JSA crossovers to the DCU's mythology, but there's usually the sense that if you skip JLA you aren't really missing anything. More often than not, what happens in JLA is never even referenced in, say, Batman's books or Superman's books.
If you compare JLA to Marvel's Avengers, I'd say there's a big difference. In my opinion the Avengers has always told stories that mattered and that have become iconic. Obviously, some eras are better regarded than others, but nearly every incarnation has at least yielded something memorable.
I'd say the difference is founded in leeway with character development. Usually, the JLA is stocked with the "Big Guns" who can only be players in the story and can't have really life-changing things happen to them when that's being saved for their own titles.
Avengers at its best mixes their Big Guns with more secondary characters like Vision, Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye, Beast, Wasp, Hank Pym, etc. who can't support their own titles and provide awesome subplot-dovetailing-to-uberplot fodder for character development. Hell, even Thor, Iron Man and Cap tend to have moments and events happen in the Avengers comic that are reflected in their own books or at least enhance their characters with superb roleplaying.
The JLI era got around the usual JLA limitation by predominantly featuring second, third and fourth-tier characters who were late of their own cancelled series or had never had one of their own. Giffen and DeMatteis could do whatever the hell they wanted with them and chose to use that power to work on giving them all distinct personalities. It was a fun, unique experience that had me coming back every month first and foremost to see what these characters would be up to. And when they did use characters like Batman, they used them wisely and gave us priceless moments like his "one punch" of Guy Gardner and his mission "disguised" as Bruce Wayne.
I loved the JLI era a lot and let my then-girlfriend/future-wife borrow the early issues because I knew she would enjoy the humor. I do think it became severely diluted and began to slowly die with Kevin Maguire's departure and the arrival of JLE. Even then, it had its moments and will always be remembered fondly by me.
Morrison fully embraced the Big Guns philosophy and proved that in the hands of a talented enough writer, that approach could definitely work. The Shit was constantly hitting the fan, and Morrison knew how to throw big, impressive threats at these characters, enough to keep readers hanging by the edges of their seats.
Interspersed in Morrison's run were takes on the icons that were very influential. Foremost was Batman as The Man! Never had Batman seemed more badass, even as a normal human among people with godlike powers. For once a take on an icon in the JLA book actually influenced the main books! Of course, many would say that that has been taken too far over the intervening years. But for better or worse, it really mattered, and that was something that JLA rarely did.
As impressive as Morrison was, his stuff did feel distant for me and left me a little cold. There was so much BIG! STORY! going on that I feel Morrison didn't really take the time to emotionally invest readers in the characters. The Tomorrow Woman story was a nice exception, but overall the emotional impact of the adventures was negligible. But the quality of stories was always high and worth your hard-earned money.
I'll post more on JLA soon and highlight some particular stories from other eras and maybe hit these two a little more...
I agree for the most part on the JLA/Avengers comparisons, in fact the Big Guns philosophy was precisely why it took me so much longer to appreciate the JLA whereas I took to the Avengers straightaway, like a duck to water.
I feel like JLI missed the opportunity to play these B- and C-List characters straight and unearth their hidden potential. For example, Captain Atom, visually striking and powerful enough to compete with the Big Guns if written right, was instead played as a complete idiot. This probably also hurt his (IMO underrated) solo book, which surely was counter-productive to DC's unstated goal of using the JLA to promote characters and elevate them. J'onn, Reddy, and Ronnie all benefitted from their JLA exposure, but the JLI roster ended up turning into a sitcom ensemble, to the detriment of the individual characters.
Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
quote:Originally posted by Stealth: For example, Captain Atom, visually striking and powerful enough to compete with the Big Guns if written right, was instead played as a complete idiot. This probably also hurt his (IMO underrated) solo book, which surely was counter-productive to DC's unstated goal of using the JLA to promote characters and elevate them.
I loved Captain Atom in his solo book, but loathed the way he was presented in Justice League books. Other heroes that, IMO, suffered from campy or one-note characterization include powerhouse Martian Manhunter (who's like a shapeshifting Superman with a dash of Phoenix!), Booster Gold and the Blue Beetle. Fire and Ice were presented as bimbos. The Red Rockets as a bad joke. Guy Gardner, who was always an unlikable ass, was the only character that felt like he was being portrayed correctly.
It also felt, to me, like the writers had no idea how to write a female character. Blue Beetle, Manhunter, Booster, etc. were established male characters, some with their own books, but Fire, Ice and Doctor Light 2.0 seemed like two-dimensional cutouts of female characters, with Kimiyo, in particular, seeming to be the 'token bitchy girl.'
The occasional attempt at being 'funny' by dropping the shocking reveal that Martian Manhunter likes Oreos wasn't worth it, IMO.
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), but I loved the way it showcased all the heroes and made the SSoSV look so effective and dangerous. It was also my intro to the Ultra-Humanite, and I've yet to be as impressed with any successive appearance I've seen of the character. ![[sigh]](graemlins/sigh.gif)
). Nice story just bursting with rich DC history!![[Confused]](confused.gif)
