posted
Yeah i thought the book was good despite over the top violence.
quote:Originally posted by superboymddjr:
quote:Originally posted by Tamper Lad:
Click Here For A Spoiler
Note that the modern DCU smallville vanished too. Figures eh? Byrne Superman's youth is closer to the Golden Age version than the Silver Age one.
actually it was another city vinashed, not that smallville.
You're right after looking at it again. I see the fight left Smallville, spanned the entire state of Kansas and reached the Missouri river. Still the city that vanished makes it clear where the missing heroes are.
I still don't understand Bette disappearing with them. I know all pre "New Look" Batman apearances were retconned to Earth 2 but still Bette was associated with the Titans for the longest time.
My speculation is that young Alex intends to use Superman-2 to try to convince the heroes JSA and other heroes that are back in the land of the Daily Star to go along with his plan carte blanche.
From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: What I'm finding the most annoying part of this series is the weird retconning of what Earth-1 and Earth-2, etc., were to begin with. The Flamebird thing is one thing, but the whole notion that the modern Superman is the Earth-1 Superman just strikes me as ludicrous. And while I can kind of accept Alex Luthor as a villain, Earth-Prime Superboy just`strikes me as completely out of character based on everything we knew about him, and I'm pretty annoyed at Kal-L being duped so easily. And how exactly does the Ray's genetic code contain the vibrational frequency of Earth-X (whatever that means to begin with), when the Ray was originally from Earth-2?
Yes the duping of Ka-L is my big complaint about the plot. It's not believable at all. Sure we make poor choices under emotional duress but this is the original Superman with a lifetime of heroing under his belt.
From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Click Here For A SpoilerNot that Pantha and Wiley were fave but I did like them believe it or not. Especially Pantha. As for Wildey? Isn't he a young kid? I know Danny Chase or Wildey aren't iconic but it really irks me when Green old Fart with a ring and Green old Fart with arrows get ressurected. And more importantly I did like Red Star ALOT. I've always liked the Russian heroes for some reason. And does anyone else have a problem with the LEGION's super nice guy (Super Boy Prime) being so evil?
And actually after everything I've heard I will probably like the issue but I certainly have a prob with the stuff above.
Writers who kill the "small" characters and then create their own "small" characters I don't get. They say the small characters don't have a place and over populate the comic universe...then go create a slew of no-names???
From: Tampa | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: And how exactly does the Ray's genetic code contain the vibrational frequency of Earth-X (whatever that means to begin with), when the Ray was originally from Earth-2?
I don't think the Ray was considered to be from Earth 2. Wasn't he introduced into the DCU along with the other Freedom Fighters in one of the classic JLA-JSA team ups? Earth X was the planet they inhabited in which the Nazis won WW 2.
-------------------- "Hey Jim! Get Mon out of the Zone!! And...when do we get Condo back?"
From: Paragon City on patrol | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
The Ray is definitely from Earth X-- the world where Nazi Germany won WW2-- along with Uncle Sam and the rest of the Freedom Fighters.
# 4 SPOILERS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
WOW. Bushido, Wildebeest, Pantha, Red Star, possibly Risk.... the ranks of the Titans took a heavy hit this issue. Maybe Cody will survive somehow, and Red Star as well. Those other 3 are Goners with a capital "G". What a bloodbath.
And Earth 2 *is* back-- but for how long? This series is making me way nervous.
posted
Okay, was out sick yesterday but I've been dying to address a few things here.
Click Here For A SpoilerTamper - I don't think that was Smallville that actually vanished but Keystone City. There was a small sign at the bottom of the panel where Wally and Bart hit Superboy. Keystone was the Earth-2 home of Jay Garrick....
Please note that the JSA is now seperated. Dr. Midnight and Mr. Terrific were Earth-1 denizens and did not move with the rest of the team.
As for Flamebird, Bette Kane was the pre-Crisis niece of the Earth-2 Kathy Kane, hence she really was an Earth-2 inhabitant and disappeared with the rest of the Earth-2 JSA. It's not a retcon but a realignment of sorts.
The Ray - The only thing I can think of is that he may have been conceived on Earth-X or his father was attuned to that 'genetic code' before the merge.
As for the violence, (and beyond the fact that many feel the death count is unnecessary), you don't actually have to SHOW the graphic violence in order to get your point across. That's pandering to the LCD, IMO.
I read CoIE when it came out. I was 12 going on 13 and that hooked me on comics for life. Now, I understand that I am STILL the main demographic for comics 20 years later but there's no way in Hell I would let my 10 year old read IC because of the graphic violence.
I think we have a solid story going on here but that the graphic nature of the deaths are drawing away from it.
My .002.
Jamie
From: Wood River, IL | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I thought that the FF were originally Earth-2 (or Earth-Quality, then retconned.) and moved over to Earth-X in All-Star Squadron?
And I think Star and Risk will make it. But the Titans were raped....hard.
Jamie
From: Wood River, IL | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
Yeah, per All-Star Squadron, the Earth-X heroes all immigrated to Earth-X from Earth-2. Not Roy Thomas's best move, but it's there.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
If I'm not mistaken, the Earth 2 to Earth X business was a 1980s retcon.
The FF originally appeared (as DC-owned characters) in an early 1970s Justice League tale as residents of Earth X, and crossed over from Earth X to Earth 1 in their own mid-70s series.
Granted: I have not actually read that early 70s Justice League story myself, but I believe it to be the case. Someone please correct if it is stated in their original appearance they are from Earth 2.
posted
That is correct, the Freedom Fighters are from Earth-X alone. The JSA do not know them in their appearance in 1973. (Just pulled out my Crisis on Multiple Earths Trade vol 3.)
Looks like they are going to ignore the Roy Thomas ret-con from All Star Squadron which isn't a bad thing.
From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well, if that's settled, I'm still not down with the whole Bette Kane/Earth 2 thang.
In her 1970s TEEN TITANS appearances, she is very much an Earth-1 resident, and her aunt (AKA Batwoman) appears in a 70s issue of FREEDOM FIGHTERS as an Earth 1 resident.
I guess we'll have to assume that DC is going with the original, earliest takes on the characters and ignoring all that came after.
Fits in with the whole Freedom Fighters/Earth X-not-Earth 2 thing, I guess.
Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
The storyline behind the retcon is that Thomas originally introduced "Earth-2" versions of the Quality characters in order to account for their published post-World War II adventures. He later changed his mind and decided to make them the actual Earth-X heroes with the whole world-switch storyline.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I can understand the use of graphic violence this issue -- it helped to convey Superboy's horror at what he was doing. I think that to imply it or have it off-panel would hide that. From a characterisation standpoint I'm not sure I buy how far he went over the edge (I feel like we're missing something about his time in exile), but his horror and desperation at the end when facing the Flashes was well done.
From: New York, NY | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I still think there is more we don't know about Alex Luthor (still think he's the Anti-Monitor) and that Superman of Earth-2 will have a shining moment, so I'll hold back on any speculation there.
Thought this issue was great, but I agree the violence was over the top (very realistic, true) and wish the deaths were a little more 'heroic'. Still, since in a way the Crisis is trying to critique the violence of the 90's/post-crisis, so maybe its that gory and violent on purpose as a culmination point.
Can't wait to see what's going to happen with the Flashes.
Batman has been great in this issue and the last. I really want him and Dick to make it through alright and smile more with each other.
Superboy of Earth-Prime definately has been duped/manipulated by Alexander Luthor, and I wonder if he'll be back in issue #7 (with Barry?) to finish off Alex (still think he's the AM ).
I really wonder if Superman of Earth-1/post-Crisis Superman (if we now accept they are one in the same) will have the same pre-crisis power-levels he once had?
Love the Spectre stuff. I actually didn't see it coming and think its a great move. Click Here For A SpoilerCrispus Allen is a great character and it's great to see his story hasn't ended. Plus, its a twist with the Spectre that its not 'Jim Corrigan' (the bad cop from GC) that is the new host. Crisp has some interesting views on vigilantism too. *And* great to see an African American super-hero thats a big gun with some very potential staying power.
Now I need to check out the death thread and see if anyone died that I missed.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
Hyperpath: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic | Subscribe To Topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
).
