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Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
Blacula, even though this question has been going awhile, I love how you keep giving hints to keep the thread alive and moving! My hat is off to you, sir!
(I have no idea what the answer is, btw...)
From: Cincinnati | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
^ Thanks lancesrealm. Honestly, I wasn't expecting to have to leave all these clues, but people are taking longer to answer this question than I was expecting. And I'd hate to be the cause of Trivia Thread Death.
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Which Batman-villain had a brief supporting role in Neil Gaiman's Sandman?
Not -
Two-Face Mad Hatter Scarecrow Rose & Thorn Dr. Destiny Hugo Strange Catwoman The "Funland" Killer Calendar Man Poison Ivy Riddler Cluemaster Penguin Calculator Mr Freeze Dr. Death Gorilla Boss of Gotham Clayface Firebug Thessaly Blockbuster The Spook Dr. Light or Man-Bat
Clues so far -
* A specifically Batman-villain. * Their appearance in Sandman was more of a supporting role than a cameo (but not a very big one). * Never appeared 'in costume' (though they do normally wear one). * Not only did they never appear 'in costume', no mention of their other identity or the fact that they are a villain (let alone a Batman-villain) was ever made. Thus, if you didn't know that X was the secret identity of Y, you probably wouldn't have known that this was a Batman-villain you were reading about. * Before their appearance in Sandman, this character had been "dead" in the then-current DCU for a number of years. Ever since then they've been "alive", with no in-DCU continuity explanation why - leaving fans (and Wikipedia) to assume that they had been one of the sinners shown escaping from Hell when Lucifer abdicated his throne a few issues earlier. * This character first appeared in the 1970s. * 3 different characters have fought Batman under this identity. The one who appeared in Sandman is the original (and current-again I think) wearer of the disguise. * Their appearance in Sandman was as someone's love interest. * Comics this character has appeared in include Detective Comics, Batman, Batman: Shadow of the Bat, Crisis on Infinite Earths, Secret Origins, Birds of Prey, Young Justice, Identity Crisis, Salvation Run, Villains United, Who's Who, Underworld Unleashed, JLA, JSA, Superman/Batman, Secret Six, Gotham Central and, of course, Sandman.
New clue -
* Even though this character is traditionally a "villain" of Batman's, their goals/objectives are actually the same as his - but their modus operandi is what brings them into conflict with the Bat-family.
From: Australia | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Found the answer through research as well. I don't think I've personally ever read a story where this character was the main villain, though I have heard of them. Mainly from one of those "Daily Planet" in-house ads back in the 1970's that focused on a story of Batman vs. this baddie.
posted
Which Batman-villain had a brief supporting role in Neil Gaiman's Sandman?
Not -
Two-Face Mad Hatter Scarecrow Rose & Thorn Dr. Destiny Hugo Strange Catwoman The "Funland" Killer Calendar Man Poison Ivy Riddler Cluemaster Penguin Calculator Mr Freeze Dr. Death Gorilla Boss of Gotham Clayface Firebug Thessaly Blockbuster The Spook Dr. Light Man-Bat Killer Moth Catman or Reaper
Instead of offering a new clue I'm going to amend some of the clues given so far -
* A specifically Batman-villain. * Their appearance in Sandman was more of a supporting role than a cameo (but not a very big one). THEY APPEARED IN THE KINDLY ONES STORYLINE. * Never appeared 'in costume' (though they do normally wear one). A RATHER GARISHLY-COLOURED ONE. * Not only did they never appear 'in costume', no mention of their other identity or the fact that they are a villain (let alone a Batman-villain) was ever made. Thus, if you didn't know that X was the secret identity of Y, you probably wouldn't have known that this was a Batman-villain you were reading about. * Before their appearance in Sandman, this character had been "dead" in the then-current DCU for a number of years. Ever since then they've been "alive", with no in-DCU continuity explanation why - leaving fans (and Wikipedia) to assume that they had been one of the sinners shown escaping from Hell when Lucifer abdicated his throne a few issues earlier. THEY HAD ORIGINALLY DIED AFTER DETONATING A BOMB STRAPPED TO THEIR BACK. * This character first appeared in the 1970s. AND IS VERY MUCH A 1970s TYPE OF CHARACTER. * 3 different characters have fought Batman under this identity. The one who appeared in Sandman is the original (and current-again I think) wearer of the disguise. THE SECOND ONE WAS KILLED BY CRISPUS ALLEN BEFORE HE BECAME THE SPECTRE. * Their appearance in Sandman was as someone's love interest. SPECIFICALLY, LYTA HALL'S (BRIEF) LOVE INTEREST. * Comics this character has appeared in include Detective Comics, Batman, Batman: Shadow of the Bat, Crisis on Infinite Earths, Secret Origins, Birds of Prey, Young Justice, Identity Crisis, Salvation Run, Villains United, Who's Who, Underworld Unleashed, JLA, JSA, Superman/Batman, Secret Six, Gotham Central and, of course, Sandman. * Even though this character is traditionally a "villain" of Batman's, their goals/objectives are actually the same as his - but their modus operandi is what brings them into conflict with the Bat-family. THEY KILL DRUG DEALERS.
[ February 06, 2011, 08:30 PM: Message edited by: Blacula ]
From: Australia | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Sheesh. With those additional clues, I can certainly tell which character in Sandman you're referring to, but I have no idea what his costumed villain identity was.
-------------------- Chaim Mattis Keller ckeller@nyc.rr.com Legion-Reference-File Lad
From: New York, NY, USA | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
Short of actually looking up the answer, I'll try one more educated guess. I remember in the Kindly Ones, Lyta was dating her boss, a guy named Eric (or Erik).
I don't know the details of this Batman villain other than the fact that he seems to fit the "opposite number" traits of your last clue, but, was it The Wrath?
(If that's not it, I think I'm out of guesses).
-------------------- See Here for the latest update on the 2013 Chicago Gathering (now including tentative attendance list)
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But someone does finally put me out of my misery and get the answer (it was getting harder and harder to come up with those clues) -
Well done Kent! It was the Batman-villain Black Spider, otherwise known as Eric Needham, who briefly dated Lyta Hall at the end of Neil Gaiman's Sandman run!
(Did you work it out from the clues or did you have to look it up?)
Since his other identity was never mentioned, there's some debate as to whether Gaiman was actually using the Gerry Conway-created DCU character in his book - but it would be a pretty weird coincidence if there just happened to be TWO black guys of the same age and build and appearance named Eric Needham in DC comics.
I don't think Gaiman's ever explained the usage but since Sandman drew so heavily on 70s DC concepts (Kirby Sandman, Destiny, Cain & Abel, House of Mystery, etc.) it's obvious he was very familiar with that era and maybe just had a soft-spot for the Black Spider or something?
Whatever the case, most Black Spider/Eric Needham biographies now list his resurrection in Sandman as canon.
Here are his Wikipedia and Batman-Wikia entries for people wanting to know more about him -
posted
I discovered the answer earlier by going through a list of minor Batman villains directed from the Batman entry on Wikipedia. I clicked on every one that originated in the '70s and found him in that manner. It was such a cool, tricky question that I wanted to see how far it would go. I hope we see more of the Black Spider soon!
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I'd found it on that same wikipedia list, but I thought since I knew someone else had already researched it out, that it wasn't really for me to spoil. Well done, Kent.
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Honestly, I wasn't expecting to have to leave all these clues, but people are taking longer to answer this question than I was expecting. And I'd hate to be the cause of Trivia Thread Death.
