I'm just taking a wild guess that this might be the place for such a thread. If I'm wrong, Mods, feel free to move it wherever.
Anyway, I've started collecting links that might be helpful to anyone whose trying to improve their skills at fan writing or fan art. Sometimes links are long-dead, but I've found a few gems, like this one:
If you've gotta' favorite to recommend, please share.
Thanks.
[ April 04, 2009, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: cleome ]
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
Thanks for posting the link. Ms. Nitpicker has sound advice for all writers.
As a bonus, her links to bad writing contain hilarious examples. Some howlers from "Grammatically Infirm Medical English," written by real medical professionals:
Between you and me, we ought to be able to get this lady pregnant.
Bleeding started in the rectal area and continued all the way to Los Angeles.
Comes to ED complaining of vaginal breathing.
Coming from Detroit, this man has no children.
Discharge status: Alive but without permission.
Exam of genitalia reveals that he is circus sized.
Exam of genitalia was completely negative except for the right foot.
Examination reveals a well-developed male laying in bed with his family in no distress.
I have suggested that he loosen his pants before standing, and then, when he stands with the help of his wife, they should fall to the floor.
Occasional, constant, infrequent headaches.
Odor of alcohol on breast
[ April 04, 2009, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: He Who Wanders ]
Posted by cleome on :
Well, to be fair: Doctors are legendary for bad penmanship. Maybe they wrote it all down correctly, but then nobody could read it.
My main downfall is probably the dreaded run-on sentence (misuse of commas, dashes, colons, semicolons and so on). I always wonder if that's generational. Do I write these epic sentences just because I remember how much harder that was to do when it was longhand or nothing ? I had the same problem when I got my first typewriter.
Also there's a certain iron core of words that I never, never spell correctly, regardless of how many times I go back to the online dictionary. It's crazy. I have no memory, even if it's only been a week since the last time I had to go look up the word in question.
I have a mental block when it comes to words such as "referred" and "preferred." I can never remember whether they have one or two "r"'s at the end.
Posted by Yk on :
*sigh* I guess this means ms.cleome has been reading our fanfic?
-he he he-
I believe this is indeed the place to post a little advice for our grammatically challenged selves. I remember The Elements of Style quite well having suffered through it in Eng.Comp.1114 like everybody else in college.
That doesn't mean I'm any good with it just that I remember it.
Strangely there are a few writing conventions that get changed on the internet. Web writing doesn't follow exactly the same rules as writing for print. It's a little more flexible and the rules of the road are still being worked out.
For instance I had a little fun in a recent fan piece where I interspersed graphics with text to indicate a switch in POV. I think it worked out well but I haven't read anything about whether readers got the point. It's fun to experiment though.
Posted by cleome on :
Oh, you !
Yk, the fic I've read here is not even close to being in contention for Worst. Fics. Ever.
Also, I went to Art School. Which means I actually had to purchase and read Strunk & White of my own free will. Nobody made me. Sad, really.
I definitely don't roam the net chastising people for the same spelling and grammar mistakes that I indulge in myself, or for wanting certain rules set aside for the demands of a particular story in a medium nobody anticipated the existence of ninety-odd years ago. What I don't like is free-floating sloppiness;Where you know the person didn't even try.
I love it, for example, when somebody misspells a main character's name over and over again. Then all his/her buddies copy the original lazy slob. Soon everybody's using the same misspelling. Because finding out the right one in the age of Wiki is just so bloody hard. (I can't say anything, though. Because I'd just be the Mean Old Grownup harshing the kids' buzz. )
As to unfinished stories, I'll go one step beyond Ms. Nitpicker. When I rule the internet, nobody will be allowed to even post Ch. 1 unless they can privately sum up for me what happens in the last chapter. I don't mind at all if it starts out with a doomed love triangle between three people in the JSA at their Senior Prom and ends with the galaxy being overrun by zombified Care Bears in deep-sea gear and the entire cast of Fame. If you can't think of the ending in advance, don't even bother. That's what drabbles are for.
Posted by Yk on :
Drabbles? That's a new to me.
I know that one of MY sins is writing "first draft" material but I maintain that if it needs to be polished and perfect then I want it to be a paid gig. BUT, what I'm usually striving for is a sense of believability, action, suspense and a satisfying conclusion. I'm bad about getting to a point where the characters insist on being written their own way and I'm only here to bang away on the keyboard until they get what they want.
I guess before you get total control if the internet I should go delete a couple of pieces I never finished..or finish them. Posted by cleome on :
Drabbles, ficlets, snippets. Usually something that's only a paragraph or two. I have a hard time writing them, because I've got such a big mouth.
Well, if you can write coherently on the first try, that's awesome. I don't recall reading any of your stuff and having a twenty-minute episode of "WTF."
You only get to delete your unfinished fics if I get to totally rewrite my old Mary Sue musical. I still love it, but it coulda' been about 450,000 words shorter without really suffering as Art all that much. Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by cleome: I love it, for example, when somebody misspells a main character's name over and over again.
Oh, how I hate that. Why even bother writing for a genre if you've never even [seen the series / watched the movie / read the comic / read the novel]? Gah. What gives a person the urge to write a story, *tailored to fans of certain characters / a certain setting* and not know the first damn thing about those characters or that setting? Isn't that masochistic?
It would be like me making up imaginary players, teams and statistics during one of those interminable and occult discussions the other guys get into about football. All I'd be doing is making myself look like a fool who had to stick his nose into the conversation, even if he didn't know the first thing about football...
/endrant
I'm totally into drabbles. Most of my Legion fics have been one to three page 'out-takes' meant to be inserted into whatever series I'm reading. Sort of 'cutting room scenes' that can get put back in the director's cut. Posted by cleome on :
Set:
(snip)
quote:...It would be like me making up imaginary players, teams and statistics during one of those interminable and occult discussions the other guys get into about football...
I do have a buddy down the street who compiles all the statistics on the AAA baseball games when we go to the games with him. The whole reason he started inviting mr_cleome (I'm convinced) is that he needed somebody to keep track of the action whenever he needed to go and get more beer or relieve himself of same. This same buddy is totally into fantasy stuff like Pern and those books about an Earth dominated by werewolves. Kind of totally blurs the line between "jock" and "nerd," yes ?
quote:...I'm totally into drabbles. Most of my Legion fics have been one to three page 'out-takes' meant to be inserted into whatever series I'm reading. Sort of 'cutting room scenes' that can get put back in the director's cut.
Don't suppose you have an LJ account ? I'm on a couple of the fic boards over there, and nine times out of ten I'm the only person contributing Legion stuff. The rest is nearly all Watchmen and Superman/Batman, which is fine if that's your cup of borscht, but... :/
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by cleome: Don't suppose you have an LJ account ? I'm on a couple of the fic boards over there, and nine times out of ten I'm the only person contributing Legion stuff. The rest is nearly all Watchmen and Superman/Batman, which is fine if that's your cup of borscht, but... :/
I do not. I used to hang out there back when I was (ahem) writing Buffy fanfic, but I haven't been around there for years.
Posted by cleome on :
Well, if you won't submit to the LJ gods again, is it okay if I link to or post about your work over there every once in a blue moon ? The Legion needs more love on LJ, [bleep] it !!
Posted by Set on :
Oh, sure. I should probably consider putting some stuff up on Fanfiction.net. I'm just a lazy sod and end up putting everything on my own site and forgetting about it...
(Until I discover months or years later and read it and wonder who wrote it, since I'm uber-forgetful and can read with delight something that I've written and not recognize it...)
Posted by 3-G on :
I do that all the time. I get those "Wow, did I really write that?" moments every time I go back to look over my old text for a reference or something. It's a lot like when I do a character in a play, I'm totally into it as long as I have to be but once the show's over, it's gone. Step away and move on to what ever comes next.
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by 3-G: I get those "Wow, did I really write that?" moments every time I go back to look over my old text for a reference or something.
Yeah, it's one of the reasons why I personalize my muse so much. When I have an idea, it's like I'm possessed. If I don't write it out, I can't sleep. But once it's done, I go back and read it and wonder where the heck it came from!
Stuff just ties itself together and I find something in chapter 2 that foreshadows something in chapter 8 and I wonder how that could possibly have happened without me actually *planning* anything. Posted by Kent Shakespeare on :
I am impressed by this very dialogue.
it is all too easy to get wrapped up in ones own little world of triumphs and setbacks.
always remember... any effort, any set towards creativity is in and of itself an accomplishment. The self-censor is the hardest obstacle of all.
Posted by cleome on :
[drift] Behold, Fans: The once-secret wellspring of Kent's inspiration [/drift]
[groan] They know all my major weak spots.
Posted by Set on :
Oh, I suck at the rules about commas (and parenthetical asides in the middle of sentences, obviously).
I loathe passive voice. It's so common in today's media. 'Mistakes were made, but we aren't gonna name names, 'cause that would be rude to say that Bob Robertson of 14 West Palermo Drive was the one that cost the company 500 million dollars on that Ponzi scheme.'
Posted by cleome on :
Set:
I have a love-hate relationship with the passive voice. Exceeded only by my love-hate relationship with slash.
[gets out six-pack to cry into]
Posted by Yk on :
What? You'd think a GnR fan would be happy. Don't they have a new CD out?
As for those eleven rules, if I followed the last one I'd never write anything at all.
..and I have a copy of an even worse movie: Batman vs Star Trek. Awesomely cheesy.
Posted by cleome on :
Yk, I hate it when the men have longer, more lustrous hair than I do. Or something.
Y'know, there's also a Batman musical where The Joker tries to pick up Alfred on Facebook. Now that's entertainment!
Posted by Kent Shakespeare on :
quote:Originally posted by cleome: [drift] Behold, Fans: The once-secret wellspring of Kent's inspiration [/drift]
It all makes sense now...
Cleo... you were NOT supposed to tell!
so much for the surprise ending of Legion of Camelot now...
Posted by cleome on :
Dude, next time I lend you fifty cents for a Powerball ticket and you win, don't renege on giving me my half of the spoils. I'm just sayin'...
Posted by Kent Shakespeare on :
Poweball ticket!?
I bought a Power Girl ticket... I really didn't think you'd swing that way to get your half of the spoils.
Posted by cleome on :
Sorry. My swing is in the shop being repainted. Or something.
Hey, now. This article is full of fantastic advice. Am I the only fanfic writer left on the net who has yet to craft a threesome featuring two characters from different universes doing unspeakable things to/with a toaster oven?
Just wondering.
[ April 16, 2009, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: cleome ]
Posted by Kent Shakespeare on :
heh.
I was in a writer's group a few years back, and we generally had an excellent ensemble... but one time this one woman showed up reading something really bad, something that aspired to be a trashy romance novel but wasn't good enough to be even that. She wasn't invited back. Those rules reminded me of that woman's story, although it wasn't fanfic (at least, not of pre-existing characters. maybe fanfic of romance novel stereotypical characters).
in my view, "bad" and "fanfic" don't have to go hand-in-hand. look at all the bad poetry almost anyone ages 15-20 writes.
it takes trial and effort to write well, of course, but it also takes criticism - of self and others. Enthusiasm alone does not replace craft/skill... look at the vast majority of Christian rock.
keep at it, folks. practice, practice, practice. Don't be discouraged by less-than-gushing feedback, but do heed it and learn from it. See it as a challenge, not a barrier.
Posted by cleome on :
Oy. Romance novels. I used to have an HM who wanted to make money writing those things. She bought all the manuals and a huge stack of the books themselves. Lord help me, I would actually read some of the damn things to shut my brains off after a hard day's work, because I was on swingshift at work; unlike every last one of my friends. This was before anyone outside the military had ever heard of the internets, so socializing was pretty much out of the question.
Anyway, in accordance with Sturgeon's Theory, I did eventually stumble upon some tiny fraction of these books that were not total crap. Oh, they still had all the expected tropes: sex every thirty pages. Good girl + Bad man. Nice guy who hangs around for awhile as a place-marker and then gets killed so the now Saved By Love Bad Man can come back. Everyone's royalty because that's what we all wanna' read about. Etc.
The saving graces of the books that weren't total crap had to do with the overall quality of the writing. Somebody putting their back into the historical research instead of just talking about gowns and jewels ad nauseum. The occasional acknowledgment that there were some people around that worked with their hands, and maybe they had lives, too. Even --gasp!-- some perfectly nice people not attracted to the opposite sex or, --double gasp!-- not interested in sex at all. A sense of realism as to how people age (and occasionally mature) and how it changes their outlook on love/sex and blah blah blah.
So, yeah, it can be done. Whether or not it can be done profitably by even occasionally slipping nourishment into the candy dish (as a scant few romance authors do) is a whole 'nother issue. At least with fanfic, the profit motive is eliminated and you don't have to give a flying rat's ass about that part.
Posted by cleome on :
For instance, I was reminded today that it's actually okay to interchange "toward" and "towards." Also "franticly" and "frantically," no matter what your spell-checker says. So I felt a little less inept. That's always nice.
Also, I've started perusing some of the fic-watch boards on LJ, but I'm not sure if I'll start linking to them or not. The how-not-to-write-about-sex one, for instance, kind of broke my brain on Saturday. I'm still recovering.
Posted by Snakeguru Lass on :
I consider myself a decent writer but i always welcome links and tips to become even better.
I have seen so many stories with tons of grammar and spelling errors and they vary so much in degree. Spellcheck functions are ok but often sort of blind to some errors, so a manual spellcheck after that is often advisable and it's also good to have a beta reader or two.
[ April 21, 2009, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: Snakeguru Lass ]
Posted by cleome on :
SL, I think your English is better than mine. I rarely if ever notice any typos when I'm reading your work.
On a vaguely related note for you fellow/sister FF.net masochists, I just recently noticed that they no longer allow you to use HTML. Also that I can no longer go back and nitpick the HTML I've already uploaded without completely messing up all of the formatting when I hit "save."
Please pretend not to notice me standing in the corner having a nice half-hour scream.
[totaling half an hour]
Thank You.
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by Snakeguru Lass: Spellcheck functions are ok but often sort of blind to some errors, so a manual spellcheck after that is often advisable and it's also good to have a beta reader or two.
A beta reader is indispensible. If you were easily able to see the mistakes you made in your writing, you wouldn't have made them, would you? My own mistakes are practically invisible to me, and I sometimes go back and re-read something for a fourth or fifth time (Yeah, I like my own writing. I'm weird.) and spot some completely lame typo or sentence fragment that makes me want to scream, knowing it's been like that for *years* without my having noticed it before!
Posted by Snakeguru Lass on :
Thanks Cleome. Really? I hadn't noticed that yet on ff.net. *cringes*
I have had a beta reader for 2-3 of my stories and the rest of my stories i check a few extra times.
Set said:
"A beta reader is indispensible. If you were easily able to see the mistakes you made in your writing, you wouldn't have made them, would you? My own mistakes are practically invisible to me, and I sometimes go back and re-read something for a fourth or fifth time"
I agree and i pretty much do the same. I check all my stories a few times (even those i'm going to send to a beta reader.)
Posted by cleome on :
My trouble is that I get caught up in trying to get a whole story worked out on screen before the inspiration slips away. Then I forget that a beta would be really helpful until it's too late. Actually somebody did look over the first few chapters of the story I'm working on now, but I'm embarrassed to ask somebody to adopt a piece that ends up running 10-12 chapters. I need to start with little things and work my way up.
:/
Posted by Yk on :
I like writing little short snippets. Small scenes that get connected by the little stuff. No matter what I always seem to get caught up in the small personal stories.
You should work up a Facebook for the entire group, too. Oh, and some fake Twitter exchanges. That seems to be all the rage amongst the young fic-types nowadays.
[gets box scores and pitcher of lemonade. goes out to rocking chair on front porch.]
Say... that group shot looks... familiar somehow...
Posted by cleome on :
Swiped Lewis Shiner's Turkey City Lexicon from somebody on LJ. Thought it might be of interest, though it's written primarily for SF prose writers.
I encourage people to argue with me, because that's what makes life interesting. However, I personally find some of the sandtraps (turkey traps?) described in here to be iron-clad no-nos for anyone. Such as:
quote:Brand Name Fever
Use of brand name alone, without accompanying visual detail, to create false verisimilitude. You can stock a future with Hondas and Sonys and IBM's and still have no idea with it looks like.
Never liked that myself. I suppose you can get away with it if you're Ian Fleming or one of his wannabees, though.
OTOH:
quote:"As You Know Bob"
The most pernicious form of Info Dump. In which the characters tell each other things they already know, for the sake of getting the reader up to speed.
This is pretty tough to avoid, at least once in a while. At least, if you're like me. Then you're trying to write a fic in which something actually happens, without the fic in question running for 500 chapters. I think it may be a necessary evil in some cases. YMMV.
Posted by cleome on :
I wish this link weren't helpful, but it could be. They seem to have had a fairly busy 2009, and I know that Sarcasm Kid has mentioned that plagiarism is a frequent issue over at Deviant Art, as well.
Hey, better forewarned/forearmed and all that, right?
Posted by Arachne on :
It's not just fanfic. There was quite a fuss over some kid putting up a puppy photo that wasn't theirs. It got thousands of favs before someone realized it was stolen. But you can see why it was so popular. (That's a ligit source, near as I can tell. It's the first pic.)
I was thinking about starting a thread like this for art. Does anyone know a good source for art tutorials? Manga Revolution was my favourite, but it's been shut down. DeviantART has a tutorial section, but it's kind of hard to find the good stuff there.
Posted by cleome on :
Whoa. Those pics make me think of the "Hoojibs" from the original Star Wars comics. I'm not sure whether that's good or bad.
I'd read that art thread, Arachne. I'm a terrible neo-Luddite when it comes to computer art, but that's more due to cowardice than hostility. Of course, if you'd rather piggyback on this thread, I think that'd be cool, too. It's all "creative," right? I could alter the thread title as necessary.
Posted by Arachne on :
Whoa... I did start that thread? LOL I totally forgot. I'll have to bump it when I get a bit of time.
Posted by cleome45 on :
I know I've been fascinated, in a disgusted/rage-y sort of way.
In a nutshell: some jerk decided that he could make a bundle buying up already existing fanfic archives and loading them up with ad space. This way: he could profit off work that fans do for free without having to reimburse them, AND he could simultaneously piss off entities like Tolkien estate and the people who publish Twilight, possibly landing a lot of fans who haven't done anything wrong in a whole mess of trouble.
My advice would be: if you see this creep's name anywhere on a site you're using, run like hell and take your stories with you.
This, as the cliche' goes, is why fandom Can't Have Nice Things.
Posted by cleome45 on :
While tooling around some LJ fansites (much, much) earlier this year, I got an invite to a newer site for posting fanfic called An Archive Of Our Own, or AO3 for short.
Procrastinator that I am, it's only in the last couple of weeks that I've begun backing up my fanfic over there. I shouldn't have waited so long to dive in. It's a very user-friendly site. You can even use the Document Manager at Fanfiction.net to copy and re-post your stories on AO3.
Usage of the site is free, but you have to have an invite at this time to set up an account. I have one available at the moment, so if anyone's interested, let me know.
Their FAQ is here, if you're interested in learning more.
[ November 09, 2011, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: cleome45 ]
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
This thread is good stuff. I already know that fanfic writing, or any sort of writing, requires thought and rereads. However, the tips here can cut down on the time needed for that.
Thanks Posted by cleome45 on :
IB, you should put in some links and tips of your own, if you want.
Also, since I wrote the previous post about AO3, they've updated their main page. You can now request an invite of your own, if you want. I hope more fan writers here will consider it, because Legion stuff in particular needs more love over there. (And their general DCU section is still growing, so there's that, too.)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
It all makes sense now... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[LOL]](graemlins/lol.gif)
![[AHHHH!!!!]](graemlins/scream.gif)
Because finding out the right one in the age of Wiki is just so bloody hard. (I can't say anything, though. Because I'd just be the Mean Old Grownup harshing the kids' buzz. ![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
)![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Gasp]](graemlins/faint.gif)
![[No]](graemlins/shake.gif)
But you can see why it was so popular. (That's a ligit source, near as I can tell. It's the first pic.) ![[Poke Joke]](graemlins/poke.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Bump]](graemlins/bump.gif)