After enjoying Harbinger's "35C profiles", I thought I'd create my own thread to discuss some of the ideas and things I had in mind when I was writing the Price of Security (wow, what a trend setter!). Just something for me to talk about to anyone who has read it or will read it! I don't have much time now, but I'll talk about what my plans are, what they were, where it fits into continuity and how fun it was to write about all of you!
Part II, "Journies and Destinies", will begin soon enough, and will pick up where Security left off: with the small group of LMBers (Cobalt, Stu, Lardy, Lash, Arachne, Grey and kind of IB) trying to save the boy Elagabolus, who is not only being hunted, but may be the cause of the destruction of the LMB five years later! (And yes, that is a reference to the Five Years later continuity of the LMB!) I'll talk about how re-reading that story helped inspire some of the ideas for that one.
But for now, I just thought I'd give a list of the LMBers that I spotlighted through out my Security story. I had hoped to do more (everyone in fact), but the story had to move on at some point . So if you haven't read it, and are curious as to who is in it, here is who played a big role, and the order (some what) that they appeared in:
Esk Space Ranger Arachne Shark Lad Invisible Braniac Cobalt Kid Emerald Empress Harbinger Doctor One Numf-El LardLad Stu *hm, I know I'm missing someone right around here...* Fat Cramer Poverty Lad Grey Birdboy Danny Blaine Sonnie Bloke Varalent Semi-Transparent Fellow Lash Lad Outdoor Miner Kid Prime Eryk Davis Ester Icefyre Abin Quank Dev-Em Ultra Matt Princess Crujectra Lightning Lad Saturn Girl Nightcrawler He Who Wanders Sanity or Madness (briefly) Lucien Lad Homecoming Queen (briefly) Umber (briefly) Beagle Boy Faraway Lad
and I know there are others that I'm forgetting, even though I wrote the story! I wish I got to everyone, but I was running of reasons for staying on Legion World But it's getting late, and I have to go...
Anyway, I hoped you enjoyed it, and I hope other people read it and enjoy it ! Thanks for reading it! Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
When I began coming up with the ideas for a good onevision, I had the basic premise of Elagabolus from the get-go, and the idea that this boy might be the death of them all. The notion of security and it's consequences was always there too, the inspiration from that coming from not only the personnal need to feel secure and how that screws up people, but the last few years of the US government and the over-emphasis on security that makes people panic.
Besides that, I wanted to accomplish two things: to flesh out Legion World, as a planet/community and how it worked, what it's place in the universe was and how the LMBP existed on it. In other words, I saw it as a place where a lot of other citizens lived, where the LMBP acted as heroes. In a sense, it was a booming colony, created for people to escape too in response to the growing evil of the rest of the universe, which really was the over-censorship and monotony of the DCMB's and the jerks at Rob's Boards.
Secondly, I wanted to try and spotlight a variety of LMBers. After awhile, I knew that I couldn't get to everyone, and there was no way that I could get to the newer posters who have arrived since I started writing the story, so I had to draw the line to keep the story moving forward. But I wanted to give each LMBer a chance to shine, and show their personality in some little way. Of course, I couldn't help but give Cobalt Kid a big role, despite my early intention of not doing so. But Cobalt is the only character that I have full control of and can screw up and do things with, so for me that makes it a lot easier to make him a central figure. As it went, IB and Stu became the other major focuses too, although this really just grew out of the story itself. All in all, I'm satisfied with who I got to, and the amount of LMBers I gave time to shine. For some, I had to use a battle scene to spotlight them, so they didn't as much dialogue, but were spotlighted in action instead. So Abin, KP, EDE, OM, Dev and others were shown fighting in one part, while FC, Grey and others had more 'screen time' discussing the mystery of Elagabolus and Septimus.
This was all a major intention of mine to have looming in the backround, while the more major story of Elagabolus and Septimus took the forefront. I won't go into that here, as I want people to read the story . But the notion of feeling secure, whether if it's endangering Legion World to protect Elag or Septimus looking to destroy the world because he fears it so greatly, is the most major of themes.
The next story, "Journies and Destinies" will continue that theme, although it will focus further on a smaller theme in 'Security', the struggle with controlling our own destiny. Also, the whole notion of a journey, and self-discovery will be a part of it, since any great journey has to encompass that .
Posted by Harbinger on :
Great guns Cobie! I love your stories and now your essays on them are just as fun to read. It was obvious that you had put a bit of thought into your tales so it's great to have you share these with us.
You are a star sweetheart, keep it coming for us please!
Bxx
Posted by Greybird on :
Your thoughtful sidebars here are most welcome. I like seeing so many people, or their alter egos, taking some part in these tales. It makes the resulting fiction borrow from the form of the Legion and its group dynamics, rather than the details of what's been published.
As a result, it's one step removed from "classic" fan fiction. (About all that's retained from DC is "Legion World," the venue name.) It also has more structure than the pile-ons, which are more current entertainment than true storytelling creations.
Since this is the place for such notes, I'm curious as to where you found or how you created the name "Elagabolus." It's not at all an obvious allusion or coinage. (Doesn't roll trippingly off the tongue, either, but it'd be boring if all mages were like "Merlin.")
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Grey and Harbi, thanks ! I enjoyed writing this story so much, that I thought a few 'essays'/comments would be a nice edition. I'm glad that you're both enjoying them! I recommend everyone doing something like this after finishing a story, I always find them fun to read! Although I have to admit, slightly stealing this idea from Belinda and her 35C profiles, since they were so much fun to read in the context of her continuity.
I enjoy reading "LMBP" fiction as much or if not more than fan-fiction myself, especially when I know the person, like here in the Bits forum. It's always fun to see yourself (or your 'character') being written into a story--I know I always love seeing it, from the first few Onevisions I ever read. Lardy began the "Onevision" tradition a few years ago, and then others wrote some great stories, and like in the tag threads, I was always thrilled to find out that I was included in them. So when I write these things, I get a thrill out of including others, since it can give [some] people a sense of pride in seeing how they're included and what they do in the story. At least, that's what I think
For the names of my characters: well, when I started writing this, I decided right away that I didn't want to go the traditional route of using British/Medieval European names for my mages, the most familiar being Merlin. And I definatel didn't want to use modern names (in our time) or 'comic-book-y' names like the Phantom Stranger. And then I realized where I'd go with it...I turned to my other true hobby and where I plan to devote my scholastic career, Roman history.
Both the names Elagabolus and Septimus are from Roman history, and from an interesting period. Briefly: after the death of Marcus Aurielius, Rome ended a period of "5 good emperors" and a time of prosperity, and soon plunged into a period of chaos, that would later be known as the "Terrible Third Century" (roughly 180-314 AD). As seen in the movie Gladitor, the next Emperor was Commodus, although he doesn't appear to be as bad as the movie shows him. After he was killed by a gladiator (that much is true), a new family took over the Emperor-ship, elected by the Praetorian Guard, and the most important of these was Septimus Severus.
Septimus Severus, who just has such a cool name, was a bit ruthless and bloody, and thus gives me the name for my main bad guy/wizard Septimus and his Vampire servant Severus (a name which has further meanings).
Elagabolus was a Roman Emperor that came circa the 220's (I don't have a text handy right now), and was the last in the Severus family line. He is mainly known as a Roman Emperor that was strange and different to the people. Since before Rome, the split between East and West (Western Europe and the Middle East) has always been apparent. Elagabolus was an Emperor who came from the Middle East (of mostly Middle Eastern decent) and didn't look like the Roman people at all. In fact, he began making the Roman Empire take on a more "Eastern" feel to it, through architecture, customs and other things. It is also rumored that he may have had many tatoos and had a shaved head, which made him seem almost mystical. The Roman people, who always feared the mysticism of the East (indeed, this was Octavian's main propaganda against Marcus Antonius and Cleopatra), feared Elagabolus greatly. I believe he was eventually assassinated. The traditional 'look' of Rome that we always see in movies and in popular culture stems mainly from the period of Hadrian (circa 135-150 AD), and had continued on through Marcus Aurelius. Elagabolus was one of the Emperors who began to change this 'look' to a more Eastern/Egyptian feel.
So that's how I got the names Elagabolus and Septimus, from my extensive, and what my girlfriend would consider slightly useless , knowledge of Roman history. Septimus as a turning point for the worst toward the "Terrible Third Century" and Elagabolus as a mystic/Eastern Roman Emperor that appeared to be very strange to his people.
Hope that wasn't too boring Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
On Continuity:
Part I:
When I started writing this story, Stu had just been elected as Legion World leader, some three months ago. This is apparent in the story, at least in the beginning, as Space Ranger tries to get the Security Office records in order so Cobalt can give Stu a full report.
Since I am above and beyond a nut about continuity, I always try to keep continuity in mind while I'm writing my stories. All one has to do is look at my huge "LMB: the Continuity" thread and my promises to have a written continuity for the LMB written in the future.
So, that is where this story takes place, during the first few weeks of the Stu administration. By the end of the story, SPOILERS!!! , we see another continuity marker, the return of Beagle Boy to Legion World. If I recall correctly, Beagz began posting again at Legion World about right after Stu and HWW were elected as leaders, and I consider it to be a point of continuity worth mentioning in the chronology of the LMB, since I consider Beagz to be a major long-time member. So, this story, however long it took to write, actually takes place in a few days between the election of Stu and the return of Beagle Boy to Legion World. These are good places, since I used them in my story to my advantage to move the plot along nicely.
There are a few other points of continuity. The "Dark Stu Saga", which I think was the major part of LMB continuity lately, definately occurs down the road from this adventure, and "Journies and Destinies". So this tale shouldn't be effected, or hampered by it at all. In addition, I have Lardy on Legion World throughout this story, even though he was 'exiled' throughout Stu's entire term, which we later learn was a trick of Phineas B. Fuddle. Although his 'exile' occured during Crujeckie and EDE's term, I think I have a good way of explaining this, and can address it in an epilogue at the end of my next story (I don't really think I'm ruining any surprises by giving this away). So the "Dark Stu Saga" is far off (at the end of Stu's term) and Lardy is on Legion World until this point, where he leaves with Elag and the others. I also wanted to take this chance to show Stu in action as leader, as a nice reminder that he was a good leader throughout his reign, despite the illusions we saw during the end of his term.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
On Continuity:
Part II:
When the LMB first started, one of the first tag threads that we ever did was called "LMB: Five Years Later". It is by far my all-time favorite tag thread, and nostalgia has set in over the years deep enough to probably make it unsurpassable. The link to that thread, saved by Loser Lad all those years ago in the Archives, is here
In this story, it's five years later, after the end of the LMB, and during those five years, things have been grim and harsh. A take off on TMK, it was an LMB tale that had to be told eventually . It's one of the most fun and best written tag threads we've ever done, and actually has an ending! As we went along, starting with Lardy, we eventually got to almost every LMBer who was a member at the moment and explained what had happened to them during the time that had passed.
Now note, this story took place in the first year the LMB was created, a mere month after the initial creation of the LMB! The first post was on April 8th, 2000 (by LardLad), and most of the LMB wasn't even around then! If you read it (and you should!), you'll see that the only LMBers who were around then that still post now are: Lardy, Lash, Cobalt, Beagz, Newcru (now Crujeckie), Lucien (who had just joined days before), Dev-Em, Shark Lad, Greybird and Armsfalloffboy and Mystery Lad (then Tsarin Lad).
Mystery Lad and Armsfalloffboy left the group early on, although they now both post on Legion World . Also, it's interesting that both Dev and Lucien had just joined (that's how early it was), and that this was the first ever appearance of Shark Lad in the LMB! Sharky decided to jump into the madness by posting in the 5 Years Later story, giving us insight to how he'd evolve over the years. Also note that Shady and Loser, who some of you might know, were also present. The story is great, and in it we see the final fight with the Time Mouse Trapper, the reunited LMB, Lucien revealed to be the LMB traitor!, and other fun stuff. The story is packed with stuff.
How does this relate to the "Price of Security"? Well, all the LMBP tales I tell have a thread of continuity in them, as I said. And in the "5 Year Gap" tale, we learn one by one what has happened to each LMBer. For Cobalt, it was slightly fun to see what we had decided long ago. Cobalt has always traditionally been a womanizer and a non-stop partier in the LMB, from the very first hours it was created. This has always been the personality that I can't control, and I've always written myself that way in every story I've ever done with the LMB, and other people have portrayed that as well. Even then, it was like this.
In "5 Years Later", we see that the Cobalt of the future is very different indeed. Cobalt, now living on his homeland Grrgg, which had been destroyed by the 'Black Pentagon', now is like a Jan Arrah figure of TMK, very spiritual, very calm and very controlled. His is a religious and spiritual man, totally different from his old drinking/whoring self. This comes off very clearly in "5 Years Later", and Cobalt is one of the few LMBers that has actually changed for the better. He also has the power to heal, and spiritual awareness powers, although in "5 years Later", we never learn how he got them. Further, we can see that he has been deeply emotionally scarred, and that things have been hectic and traumatic for him, which is why he changed.
Lastly, his relationship with Space Tart is still up in the air, as they don't really know how they feel about each other. At this time, Spacey had really just been created, made an Alt ID, the first alt ID to join the LMB, a major force in the LMB, had her identity to be revealed as Lash and had carved a place out in LMB lore for herself. She has always been known as Cobie's girl, just like he's "Spacey's guy", although neither has ever been monogamous or true to each other, except for a brief period in Year three, where they are married, as shown in "LMB Onevision: the Tale of Cobalt and Spacey", which I wrote here.
So the Cobalt of 5 years after the dissolution of the LMB is totally different from the Cobalt then, or even now. So, I started wondering how I would ever be able to get to that Cobalt. As I was writing the story of Elagabolus...it started to occur to me...
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
On Continuity:
Part II (continued):
So in "5 Years Later", we have the spiritual traumatized Cobalt Kid, totally different from the one in year one, or even now, in year five. Later, a few months later, LardLad created "Onevisions", a new way to tell a story where no one interfers with it, after a few tag threads. He began writing his own Onevisions, the first one called "Hummer Lass: Intervention".
Lardy's first Hummer Lass onevision was excellent, and I highly recommend people to read it. It can be found here It's nothing like you think, believe me, and really gives Hummer Lass some in depth characterization. In it, Lardy continues on with the "5 years later" continuity, something that hadn't been touched since the "5 Years Later" tag thread ended. Lardy explores the continued re-creation of the LMB, and gives Hummer Lass and LardLad a nice story. The shock ending then led into his second Onevision "The Search for LardLad"
"The Search for LardLad" continued the 5YL continuity, and explored deeper the different LMBers and how they changed. In it, Lardy asked for some volunteers from LMBers who wanted their characters in the story (which I just did in "Price of Security", since it worked so good then and this story was on my mind). Lucien, Therod (who posts here sometimes), myself, Loser Lad, Dev-Em and Hardshell the Turtle Boy and Mighty FanboyLad (the latter two we haven't heard from in years, literally) volunteered.
Lardy asked for more characterization, and I began coming with it. Here's what I figured: Cobalt had been greatly traumatized and tortured at the hands of his enemies Dark Conan and the Pious One. He was forced to kill another human being and promised to never do so again. He was so deeply scarred, that he left the LMB and became very spiritual. Somehow, over the years, he acquired the powers to heal and to have 'spiritual awareness'. And his relationship with Space Tart had been through the ringer, with major ups and downs.
Lardy wrote a great story, although I'm afraid it might be lost to us. He incorporated all these things for Cobalt (and other stuff for others). He also always meant to write the final part of the trilogy, "Reign of the Dark Lard", but never got around to it. In it, he planned to use every LMBer at the time and show them in 5YL.
This was the end of the 5YL continuity stories, although it has always been in the back of my mind, and Lardy's too, as well as others. It's been a few years (in real time) since we've gone back to it.
But Lardy has always used these stories as focus for where his character, LardLad, is going. As you might guess, Lardy of the future is very different. In a way, very evil, although we've never learned why. Does LardLad have a terrible streak to him, is there an evil to him? Lardy has always played this aspect up, through killing Psychotic Beaver, by always being ready for sex and violence, etc. I know that this is always on Lardy's mind in his stories, the exploration of his character's dark-side, and I'm eagerly awaiting his next storyline to see this explored.
For myself, I consider the Cobalt of the future as where my character is going too. And "Price of Security" is where things begin to change.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
On Continuity:
Part II (concluded)
So after having the initial story for Elag set out, and the themes of security and it's price, as well as a sense of controlling our own destines, I began thinking of Cobalt's own story. "Destiny" is a major theme of the next story, especially Elag's prophecized destiny to destroy the LMB. One the flip side, there is the 5YL destiny of what Cobalt is going to become, one way or another.
When I came to Legion World, the first story I wrote was "The Tale of Cobalt and Spacey". This was mainly due to my learning of the death of the Space Tart character, and the natural reaction of Cobalt having his wife killed while he was away. It's a love story in a 'Cobalt' sort of way and tells the tragic tale of the two lovers. To me, it had to be told, because so much of Cobalt's character (and Space Tart's) are derivitive to each other.
Next, I wrote "The Tale of Dr. Albert Hoffman", in which I tied together the story of why I've come and gone so many times from the LMB (in continuity), and what the Ongoing Wars between Cobalt and the Pious One and Dark Conan (my two old alt ID's on the DC boards) was like. I used "Dr. Albert Hoffman", my other alt ID and the real life creator of LSD as the true identity of the Pious One and my main enemy. While writing the story, I started remembering the story I had set in 5YL, and how Cobalt was traumatized from being tortured by them for so long.
And so, that's how the 'Dr. Hoffman' tale became so dark. It explains how Cobalt was tortured repeatedly on two occasions by Dr. Albert Hoffman (the Pious One) and Dark Conan, and is never really the same after. He is traumatized badly, and a lot of this has to do with the fact that he was forced to kill another human being, Dark Conan, which he did at the end of the story.
Both of these stories explain the story of Cobalt, Spacey, Dr. Albert Hoffman and the comings and goings of the three in the years since the LMB had formed.
With "Price of Security", I saw an oppurtunity to continue this. But I wanted to do it in a way, where the majority of the readers, who I knew had no knowledge of the 5YL continuity, could enjoy the story without previous knowledge, and then be amused when I told them of it at the end. I already had Elag's story in mind so I thought I'd slip in the 5YL references and be able to move Cobalt's own continuity forward very subtley.
Anyone who has read the story has caught some of this: SPOILERS!!!
-Because of Elag, Cobalt has gained the healing and spiritual powers that he has later on in the 5YL continuity. He's not exactly spiritual, but he has the powers. This is the beginning of his progression, and although I'm not going to change my neo-narcissistic/debauchery personality yet (sorry Abin ), this marks a subtle turning point.
-Elag is prophecized to be the end of the LMB. Is he? Can he stop it? Is 5YL innevitible? Do we control our own destiny? Is Elag evil no matter what? By Cobalt taking the healing powers, has he effectively damned Elag to be an enemy of the LMB?
These points of continuity were never meant to be anything other than backround stuff, although it took me five posts to explain it all . But the more I started considering it as I wrote, the clearer it became that this was part of the story. Like knowing that Condo would one day die, it's interesting to consider that Cobalt would eventually have taken those healing powers anyway.
Now, I don't want people to be looking for other continuity points for "Journies and Destinies". That is going to be the story of Elagabolus, Septimus and the consequences of the LMB's choice to send him away from Legion World, for security purposes. And whether all these eight can make their own journey to where they need to be.
[ February 26, 2004, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: Cobalt Kid ]
Posted by Harbinger on :
Cobie, I enjoy these posts as much as your stories.
Bxx
Posted by Varalent on :
Excellent background Cobie. I had heard mention of the 5YL LMBP stories in passing but it's interesting to get a better understanding of them.
Funny isn't it, that you and Lardy feel compelled to progress into those 5YL personalities? And work hard at it, while the LSH writers loathed the Adult Legion stories and worked at finding a way to eliminate it from continuity.
Posted by LARDLAD on :
Wow, Des! This is like a dream thread for me!
First, I can't express enough how great it is to have another LMBPer help carry the torch of hammering out some LMBP continuity. I really appreciate all the acknowledgements to my work, but you've really upped that commitment several notches with your endeavors in the "Continuity" thread and with your original stories. I've read the first two pages of "Security", and it is an eye-opening piece of work from you, Des! I hope to finish it this coming weekend!
A you mentioned, I started telling Onevisions about the LMBP and have had great passion for the work I did on them. Sadly, I've only written two thus far, but there are at least three or four I want to tell. The one that's currently in development I'm tentatively calling "Turning Point". It will follow the storyline I've been describing in the "Would anyone mind..." thread. I'm excited about it for many reasons. One, it'll be my first story in YEARS. Two, it'll be the first story I've told in the "present day". And three, it'll really set up what's to come with the character of Lard Lad. Des mentioned a master plan I have for him, and I've come to realize that this story is crucial to set it up.
What will be written next is up in the air. On one hand, I might go ahead and tell the story of "White Twilight" (think the LMBP's "Black Dawn") which occurs early during the Five Year Gap. I'm not sure about it because the major events have been summarized in "Intervention" and "Search for Lard Lad". But showing the exact character beats might be worthwhile.
Another strong possibility is to go ahead and tell "Reign of the Dark Lard". I know pretty much everything that happens in the story and how it ends, but how to tell it is a little hazy for me. I'm also wondering if I need some more character buildup first in addition to "Turning Point".
The other definite story to be told is one that takes place many years after "Reign". I don't want to go into specifics, but that story itself could produce sequels.
Another possibility is "The Mundane Wars". This is the LMBP's version of "The Magic Wars". In a throwaway line in "Five Years Later" This is said to be the event that precedes the gap. Problem is, it was a throwaway line, and I have no idea what it's all about! I just hope it's better than "Magic Wars" was! Maybe this could tie into your plans, Des?
So in 5YL continuity, we have three definite untold tales: "Mundane Wars" which kicks it off; "White Twilight" which happens a little into the gap and signals the LMBP starting to crumble; and the unnamed, unreferenced tale which officially breaks the LMBP up for several years. The only other detail I remember was that Loser was supposed to be the 'last Legionnaire'.
I read with great curiosity the prophecy part of your story. Including Lardy in it made it seem to possibly set up "Reign". But it can also be read to set up future developments with Elag and Lardy having a big role in that story. I like that kind of ambiguity!
Your ideas of about how Lardy fits into this story continuity-wise are fascinating. I'm of two minds on the subject: On one hand, I don't think every "real world" event regarding posters necessarily has to be reflected in the fiction. So Lardy didn't necessarily have to be exiled when I was. On the other hand, it can really resonate when the parallels are drawn.
I guess it's fine for fictional Lardy to have been exiled. Given my druthers though, I'd like to think of your story and its sequel as having taken place first (before the exile). Then, the encounter that was described in the Ongoing thread took place when Lardy and the others return. At this point, he loses his powers. Then the story told in "Turning Point" happens simeultaneous to the whole "Dark Stu" saga. So we learn that Lardy was not spending all of his time trying to get back onto Legion World but actually had a life-altering adventure.
Hope that explanation sounds agreeable to ya, Des.
God, I love this sh!t!
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Lardy, that explanation sounds great! I figured that you'd have your own ideas for what Lardy was up to, so I'd leave that open for you to figure out. This way, as far as the story is concerned, Lardy is part of the LMBP as always, and all that takes place at some future point that I don't really even need to reference. I don't think that LMB continuity has to reflect real life continuity, which is why I've split up the LMB continuity into five years, when in real life, it's been four. There's just too many tales to be told, having it in five years makes it easier to piece together!
I'm really excited about your upcoming stories though! It's been WAY too long since you've written a few Onevisions, and I can't wait to see you write one in 'current' continuity. "Turning Point" should be great, from the ideas that you've given away some far, it already sounds like another great story.
I'm real interested in reading about "White Twilight" and "the Mundane Wars", two cool things about the 5YL continuity that always made me smile. Both throwaway lines that can be built on to be something cool. I do remember one thing about the Mundane Wars, that the LMB fought a battle at "Monotonous Hill", a bit that Loser threw in. And I think I also remember Loser being the last LMBer.
The unamed reason the LMB broke up is interesting, in that it leaves it open for me to hint that Elagabolus might be that reason. Elag could be the cause of the end of the LMB, so there is a little added excitement in seeing what happens to him. While "Journies and Destinies" will be about the story of Elag and his journey, this can always be kept in the back of the readers mind. We know that the LMB break up, but we don't know why, and now we know that it could be because of Elag.
I'm glad you like this thread Lardy! Like you, I love this shit !
And I really can't wait for "Reign of the Dark Lard"! I'm dying to know what happens to the LMB!
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
And Vee, thanks for the comments ! It is funny that Lardy and I move to the 5YL continuity, even when I was doing it subconciously! The Legion writers really did loathe it, especially Levitz, who finally tried to get rid of it once and for all. We just can't seem to get enough of it.
What can I say? I'm a continuity nut! Posted by LARDLAD on :
I'm really into knowing what will ultimately happen to characters in the future. Some of the best stories ever written in comics deal with that. Shooter's "Adult Legion" was possibly the big innovator of the concept for comics. And probably the best ever comic story in that mode was the original "Days of Future Past" X-Men story.
I think that's what attracted me to developing the LMBP's 5YL continuity. For one thing, I found it more interesting to tell stories that have a lasting effect. One thing about present-day stories is that its hard to tell major events when you have so many people personally invested in their characters. It's not that I'd necessarily want to kill them off, but you can't just write a story where, say, Varalent is paralyzed or Legion World is destroyed in a unilateral move by one writer. Instead, you have to focus on your own creations and develop them as you see fit.
But if you set a story in the future, there is more creative freedom. While you still can't significantly alter another poster's character without his or her blessing, you can tell bigger stories with bigger consequences. It's far enough into the future that you don't have to worry about stepping on people's toes as much.
However, there is one potential problem. The root of this is that after you've written something set in the future, you'll have stuff happen in present continuity that might contradict the future material.
As perfect as the "Five Years Later" tagteam thread was, it still featured many characters who've since disappeared with their respective posters. And of course, all the new important posters who joined up in the time since it was written are totally absent. Also absent is any reference to Legion World which has become so important to us and is the major setting for our characters. It's pretty clear that the crumbling HQ the LMBP meet up in is the original earthbound version.
There are some explanations one could use and still make it work. You could say the characters shown were only the first ones gathered for the fight. Even the LSH's own post-5YG stories (which is the inspiration) didn't reunite the whole team. It could easily be said that the rebuilding process only began in that story, leaving plenty of room for the "return" of EDE, Stu and countless others later on. Even better, it could lead to speculation about which of those "missing" characters may have been killed in the interim. And Legion World? That certainly could've been destroyed at some point.
I think it's clear that any future stories like "Reign" that take place in the 5YG continuity should attempt to address these apparent glitches. Though giving hints and vague references may be better for building suspense than spelling everything out all at once. If Legion World is eventually destroyed, for example, there should be a lot of input from as many of our talented crew as possible as to how that happened.
I'd also like to give a shout-out to others who've written Onevisions that have in one way or another helped develop the LMBP universe. Off the top of my head I can remember past contributions from Mllash, Faraway Lad, Beagle Boy, Newcru, Loser Lad and Dev-Em that have also been very invaluable to help build the LMBP story. I hope I haven't forgotten anybody. (Des?)
And to my mind, Loser Lad wrote the definitive version of the origin of the LMBP. It was truly awesome and can probably be found in his archives. It featured the LMBP's version of Marla Latham who I've tried to reference in my stories (though the name of the character escapes me at the moment).
Shit! This IS fun, Des!
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Lardy, I think the points you bring up about 5YL continuity are definately worthwile in discussing. I agree that the two main consistencies that are problematic in 5YL are the missing references to Legion World and the members who have joined since then.
The new members are easily rectified. In the actual 5YL story that I posted a link to, it's apparent that the whole story takes place in a fairly short time where the LMB is rushed to get back together, and then fight the Time Mouse Trapper. Therefore, a natural extension of that tale would be where the rest of the members who have joined since then, also join them. I think the second to last post of the story (yours, Lardy) says that the rest of the LMB rejoins them and they have a blow-out party. This is where the majority of them could have rejoined (who were still alive). Also, in your two onevisions, it's apparent that there are a lot of other members there who we didn't know about yet.
In addition, who knows what could have happened to these characters? That could be part of the fun. For all we know, EDE went evil again and dissapeared. Pov and Homecoming Queen were married and retired. Others were killed or injured. It can be a lot of fun! So, I agree that the references should be left a little mysterious and built upon.
Legion World, on the other hand, is such a major part of the story, that you have to wonder if it was destroyed. If it was, it had to have been a MAJOR part of one of the stories that led to the downfall of the LMB. This could be such a shocking and major event, it might be part of the reason that many LMBers left the fold. Since it is so important to us now, there has to be a reason that it's not mentioned in the future.
And like Lardy said, there have been so many other great Onevisions from a variety of posters over the years, I wish that all of them were saved. I've hunted a few down in the LMB: Continuity thread, but I know there are more missing. One of my favorites was a little one written by Beagz that had a few LMBers (Foxy Roxy, Cobalt, Sasha come to mind) rescuing some people from a fire (or something similar). It was short and very nicely done, and really got me into the whole "Onevision" style. There have been so many great other ones!
I highly recommend to everyone to write some fan-fic or onevisions! I'm having a blast reading everyone else's stories (Belinda, Chuck, Lash, Danny, EDE, etc)! And also, I encourage people to write stories about the LMBers! It's fun, and people love seeing themselves in a story. I know I'm looking forward to EDE's onevision, and I won't even be in it, because I wasn't around then! And I've been waiting for Lardy's story for a LONG time.
Oh and Lardy, it was Kel Ratan, who Loser introduced as the LMB's Marla Latham .
Posted by LARDLAD on :
Actually Des, believe it or not, I had typed out Kel Ratan as his name, but for some reason I went back and deleted it before posting. The name has such a familiar ring to it that I was afraid I'd remembered another character altogether from an actual comic. Oh well!
Another interesting point for LMBP continuity is what relationship, if any, our characters have to the LSH. I bring this up because we have Lightning Lad, Saturn Girl, Emerald Empress and Quislet among our members. Who are they?
Is our universe a parallel universe to the LSH's? Or do we actually coexist in the same universe? Are we further in the future in the same universe as the LSH?
I guess the parallel universe theory makes the most sense. After all, we could certainly have our own versions of some of the familiar characters.
But I guess its open for debate. What say y'all?
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Lardy, I didn't want to post in the "Turning Point" thread (as Onevision protocol states), but I am LOVING your story so far! It's great to see you writing a onevision, and great to see you easily slip back into having a total grasp of the rest of us LMBers (especially me and Darden!).
I'm very interesting to hear the story of "Leelee" and Mordra, the LMB Traitor. I like the name Mordra, and it fits better than anything else we could have come up with. I'm very interested in your take on this, you have the oppurtunity to tell a great story, to show how Lardy has evolved over the years, and iron out the "LMB traitor" continuity once and for all. Great stuff! More please!
For the LSH: I see it as us existing in a parrallel universe from them. In my mind, it just wouldn't make sense having so many heroes around, and us never really meeting them, and I kind of like the LMB as the 'main' fighting force for good in our universe.
The LSH existing in another universe works better for me, like an Earth-2 to our Earth-1 (we're Earth-1 just like the Silver Age ripped off the Golden Age by making them Earth-2!). This could explain why there are many similarities: Lightning Lad, Saturn Girl, Emerald Empress, Quis, etc. Also, this leaves it open for Scott, Caroline, and EE to create whatever differences they'd like to in comparison to their comic-book counterparts.
In addition, I think the Marvel Universe would then be a natural Earth-3. Since we have Nightcrawler and Mantis, and a few otheres I forget, that could explain the similarities there. Nighty himself can get the chance to explain why he's in the future (unless he was actually born in the future in this universe), and Danny B has already explained that Mantis actually IS from the Marvel Universe, and comes here occasionally by switching places with Danny Blaine (since neither can co-exist in the same universe at the same time). So the Marvel Universe can be 'Earth-3'.
What do you think? Sounds OK? Anything to add or change to this theory?
Posted by LARDLAD on :
Actually, I always felt the parallel universe explanation was the best one, but I wanted to throw it out there. So it's damn fine with me!
And I'm glad you like the story so far! Unfortunately, if you remember my history with stories, updates won't necessarily come too frequently. But I'll do my best!
I'm glad you like the new name. If you think of how similar that name is to an established LSH character's name and how there's another LMBP character with a similarly derivative name, you might have some idea where I'm going with her.
For the first post, I took the post from the "Ongoing" thread and did some reworking with it. I made it less vulgar and changed a lot of the references to fit the story I have in mind and to distance the character from the original version. If you ever compare the two, you'll see what I mean.
There are some other surprises coming. For now, I might tease by asking you to think about the title and what it might be implying.
And Cobalt, I want to thank you personally for getting me back into writing. Whether you realize it or not, it was your own writing and your own passion for the continuity that got me back into it. Thanks, man!
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Well, I can honestly say that the pleasure is going to be all mine, Lardy! The more people we can get writing again, the better!
I eagerly await more posts and bits of the story! You've made me raise my eyebrows, now I'm more than curious!
Posted by Bevis on :
Well we know for certain that there are parallel universes in the LMBP continuity. I think at one point Lucien Lad might have been an alternate universe version of himself (which is how he's his own father) but more definately Umber and Amber are AU versions of each other, one from Earth 1 and one from Earth 2.
I really need to go back and re-read some of those Onevisisons and the 5YL. I love the fact that the 5YL story was such a random tag team thread but has actually led into so many on-going aspects of characters. Throwaway moments or things that were completely out of the blue (like Lucien Lad or Lardy being evil and so on) have been taken up and used to change characters. Some characters didn't really get affected by the events of those stories, either because they weren't closely involved or they developed in other ways, but there are some such as Cobie, Lardy, Lucien and so on who have very definately been moving towards those events. I like to think that the 5YL story and the subsequent Onevisions are possible futures for the LMBP but are also *probable* futures. Maybe the exact details will be a bit different (one character replacing another, events slightly different) but the basic are consistent. That way we don't have to throw away any stories but we can also work out how things actually fit if needs be. Besides we've had so many alt universe versions of the LMBP (and not just in Elseworld stories. Think of all the funny animal LMBP and things like that) that we can easily say the version of a story we've already told is one from a slightly different universe where Spacey never died or Shark Lad was a porpoise or something like that.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I totally agree Bevis! There are definately ways to iron out continuity to fit our own needs, either through taking the Roy Thomas approach of explaining how it all fits, or assuming that certain stories took place in an alt Universe, which gives us the basic outline of what will happen while leaving some details up in the air.
As you can see, Lardy and I are in total agreement over the 5YL tag thread! Totally random and yet has influenced so many stories since then! When I reread it not too long ago, I literally laughed out loud when you revealed that you were the LMB traitor, and in a way that only you could .
And I can't believe that I left out the fact that Amber and Umber have been proven to be from different Earths, although Umber's Earth might be Earth-2, Earth-3, etc. Although recent mysteries have revealed that Umber might actually be the daughter of Thora and Me, sent back through time in a tragic science accident fifteen years in the past to a different Earth-universe! Now it's questionable if Umber is Amber's duplicate, or if the universe had need of a duplicate for Amber and took Umber from our current continuity! Confusing, I know, but fun! There could be a major LMB story in there, explaining the existence of Amber and Umber with the LMB and Umber's place in the universe to be drawn back through time to a seperate universe to act as Amber's counterpart.
And don't forget the hints of another alt Universe where BBC/Seahorse was really a girl! After a case of mistaken identity by Shady early on, this was always a run-on gag!
Posted by LARDLAD on :
Believe me, I don't want to shoehorn anybody else's characters in such a way that I dictate how they turn out.
But make no mistake, the story I'm telling about Lardy, past, present and future, IS Lardy's story! I'm not saying he MIGHT go bad or that he PROBABLY will go bad; I'm saying he WILL go bad! And not in an alternate universe either! (Well, actually, it has been shown that Lardy goes bad in every alternate universe where we've explored the issue---the only difference seems to be that the "real" Lardy seems to be taking longer than everyone else! ) So it's not an imaginary tale! Not a dream! Not a hoax! NOT an alternate or parallel universe! This is what WILL happen to Lardy in the "official" LMBP Universe!
But just because I wanted to make that abundantly clear, doesn't mean I expect everyone else to follow 5YL as if it were a religious tome. Yes, when I (finally) write "Dark Lard", it'll most likely follow 5YL's lead character-wise. But if somebody changes their mind about a character's destiny, it's perfectly fine to think of the inconsistency as a time fart or something. So long as it's understood that said time fart doesn't involve Lardy directly or somehow explain away his actions!
I guess what I'm really trying to say is that I'm very passionate about Lardy's story, and I don't ever, ever think of it as anything but his "real" story. I could never put so much effort into it if I thought otherwise.
Guys, I hope this rant didn't sound like I was yelling at y'all or anything. And I'm not judging anyone who dissents. I'm fine with other creators not wanting to set their characters's future's in stone. It's just not my bag, baby!
Posted by LARDLAD on :
And Bevis, it's really wonderful to see you enter this discussion---more please! Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Hmm... this is actually giving me some ideas for my upcoming "Refugees" story... I just need to go back and read "The Super-Jailhouse" story to see if event can be interpreted in the right way...
Posted by Bevis on :
I think Super Jailhouse could be interpreted in almost any way you want it to. That one was even more bizarre than the 5YL story.
I should really go back and read some of the major storys again before getting on with Lucien's story. I sort of know what's going on with it (who his parents are, why he's time displaced and stuff) but need to check somet hings. Like I'd forgotten completely that we actually know (sort of) who the Time Mouse Trapper is. That might have to be significant in the story. oooh, just had a thought. If the Time Mouse Traper is an alternate universe version of Lash then that ties in neatly with Lash being the one to introduce Lucien to the LMBP. It could also tie into the whole Dark Lucien thing quite nicely. Ah, don't you just love the fact that despite the fact that the LMBP has an even more complicated continuity than Wonder Woman, Donna Troy, Power Girl and Hawk Man combined we *still* manage to make it work? Posted by Greybird on :
It appears as if you're (Cobes, Bevis, Lardy so far) ratcheting up expectations with this much attention to "continuity." Are you expecting that all LMBP stories are going to fit together in some sort of seamless web? When a large chunk of it is linked to pile-ons such as the tag-team threads, which have no real author guiding them?
More to the point, are you expecting that all future stories, from yourselves and others, will be created to fit this "continuity"? I have enough of a writer's block as it is, and I'd never attempt to make even a short piece fit such a group-created setting and its own contradictions. It's hard enough even alluding, in the first place, to pseudonyms of people I know on line.
Writing a history of members and events is one thing -- we have actual events as anchors. Creating a continuity blueprint to shape others' stories is much more work, and much more presumptious. I guess I can't quite divine your aims here.
Posted by Bevis on :
Oh Gods no, I'm not expecting continuity in the LMBP to become a strictly adhered to thing. The very nature of the stories we tell (especially when it comes to the tag teams) means that if we really wanted to stick to continuity we'd spend more time working out exactly what happened when and to whom that we'd never get any stories written. That's especially true of 'established' future continuity where, as has already been mentioned, some things already don't fit. Because people have joined and left and rejoined and so on over the years that the LMBP has been together characters who might appear in early stories aren't really around any more and ones that have joined later and should probably be in stories that have been told don't appear it's pretty much impossible to tie everything together.
However if there are big points that have been established (Lardy going evil, Cobie and Space Tart being an item, the Time Mouse Trapper being an AU version of Lash and so on) there's no reason that they shouldn't be included in new stories. I think basically that's where we're coming from when we talk about coninuity (that's certainly the case for me). Continuity within LMBP stories is very much a secondary thing to the story and the fun we have telling them but that doesn't mean that it should be discounted entirely, and in fact if you do take account of it then it can add to the fun. For example in the Return of Dev-Em story we had the evil LMBPers who were all coming from other stories where they had gone evil (or are going to go evil in the future). That's the kind of continuity we're dealing with here, no the minutiae that would make story telling awkward. For a start we couldn't possibly remember everything that had happened to the LMBP and all it's multitudinous members and besides we've already had so many contradicitions and completely illogical developments that that aspect of the story telling has become an important part of LMBP fiction. Doing away with that in favour of specific continuity would be a crying shame.
Posted by Bevis on :
Oh, forgot to say as well I think a lot of the discussion to do with continuity and it's use is actually much more aimed at Onevisions rather than the Tagteam stories. When one person is writing the story it's easy to keep a continuity going and have plot developments that have a reason for being there (other than to spin the story off in a new direction). That's not really something that is easily done with tag teams but works well for Onevisions.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I agree with Lucien about continuity. I think continuity can be fun and make for good story ideas, like the Return of the Dev-Em story and the possible Homecoming Queen/Umber thing that EDE and I were discussing. But it should in no way hamper any storytelling, then it would just make it too hard to write a story and give a good reason to take away motivation.
There are way too many continuity blips to worry about over the years (like Newcru becoming Crusader, totally altering LMB continuity, but in a very good way). Like Lardy said, these can easily be explained away in continuity terms, or by just using the time-blip/alterate universe reasoning. Either way, like Lardy and Bevis, I do see Cobalt's story as kind of set, and I plan to keep working to it, using whatever stories and LMBers I have on hand. Cobalt will eventually meet Space Tart again, and will eventually become a spiritual person. But part of the fun is getting there and ironing things out on the way (at least for me!).
I agree that the Onevisions are the best place for continuity stuff, the tag threads are too disorganized and off the wall sometimes. Which is how I like them. I like throwing the person who will post after me for a loop. Later on, in other threads, it can be fun to try and figure out exactly what happened.
I do plan to get to the "Written history of the LMB" fairly soon, which will explain both what happened to our characters over the years, as well as give a history of our group in 'real life'. The Continuity of our characters has been ironed out in an agreeable way, although it doesn't take into account the tons of minute story points that have occured over the years that are disagreeable.
So basically, everyone gets to write the continuity of themselves, while those of us with the interest try to piece it all together into one coherent story of the LMB. Since I have a set plan for Cobalt, I'd hope that anyone writing a story that involves Cobalt (which I always like!) will stick to the basic continuity of the character (which isn't complicated at all). Same goes for everyone else. And if someone has a part of a story that doesn't fit into LMB continuity, it can always be explained in a way that everyone likes.
*Also*- this is mainly for Lucien and Lardy, if they hadn't seen this yet in another thread. I have big plans for Space Tart in the future, although I don't want to say what, so I'd like to ask that in any story you do, please do not bring her back. I had wanted this to be a surprise, but I'd rather just let everyone know now so no one brings her back in a story. As a original co-creator of the character, with permission of the other creators (and her alt ID ), I have some plans for her down the road, and will get to her eventually. So, if it's OK, leave Spacey to me . I figured that she's just so lovable, that someone might try and yank her back!
Glad to see people interested in this though, I think it's a lot of fun!
And EDE, can't wait to start seeing a bit of "Refugees"!
Posted by Bevis on :
Dammit Cobie, half the fun of the Return of Dev-Em thread was me trying to bring back Spacey so I could turn her evil again and seeing how you managed to prevent her from being brought back. Actually that's quite a good example of the way I think LMBP continuity should work. There are story threads that we've established but because so many of the stories are free-flowing it's easy enough for us to alter things in big ways to suit our own needs or desires without actually causing anyone any headaches.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Exactly . And I was starting to run out ideas too in the Dev-Em story . The best of them was the sudden return of the LMBP Spectre (much like the Lyta is really Dove scene in JSA), but after that, I was grasping .
That is the best part of the story threads, the way we flow off each other's ideas and then fix things to suit our needs while still working with each other's ideas.
I'd recommend someone checking out "the Return of Dev-Em" for that reason right there: Bevis brought back Space Tart, she stuck around for a bit, and then I suddenly revealed that it wasn't Space Tart, but the LMBP Spectre (Foodmaker/Donna Troy/Spectre if you recall). This led to even better reasoning for the main villian of the story to be so crafty and hard to detect!
Posted by LARDLAD on :
I agree 100% with Lucien and Cobalt's reasoning. And while the Onevisions tell the most coherent narratives, many of the best ideas have come out of those tagteam threads.
Really, as an example, it was in those threads that I began to develop an idea of who Lardy is. I learned what his powers are as I wrote him into the story. His personality really grew in such a way that he really became a separate entity from me in my mind. Certainly, the things that he does are often 180 degrees from how I am. When Lard Lad wants something, he goes after it; me, I think everything through ad nauseum. And the more I wrote about him, the more it became clear that he was heading for a fall. And it was my mission to tell the story of how that happened. Those threads helped give Lardy a life of his own.
And all that has its roots in the tagteam threads. Not just 5YL, but every one my character has been involved with. What's more, he took on such a life that everyone else who wrote about him in a tagteam post or a Onevision was able to write him consistently with what I had written. I'm very proud to see that Lardy has had that kind of impact with all these other talented writers.
Once again, it all starts with those tagteam theads. I mean, most of the damn things don't even have an ending, but I haven't seen a one that doesn't have some good ideas in it that have enriched the tapestry as a whole. There's always something that enters the "canon" and is referred to again. Random and curvey, they most certainly are, but the creative energies therein always produce some gems.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Lardy, that sums up the tag threads as best as they can be! Without them, we would never have started to gain a notion of many of the ideas that have become prevalent in the LMB! That's where the ideas happen, and out of every ten silly ones, there's always one great one (and with fifteen a page, that's a lot )!
And Bevis, I am loving the story so far! Very interesting: we get Lucien Lad and the Time Mouse Trapper at the end of time, giving hints as to the true nature of Lucien Lad. And then in an amazingly written sequence of science fiction (that is also hysterically funny), you had me believing that we were about to see the beginning origin of Lucien Lad, and then through in a twist with the mouse. I'm hooked .
And in the future guys--I'll probably reserve my comments and praise on all the Onevisions (and there are a bunch now, yay!) in "Critic's Corner", the thread highlighted at the top of the Bits forum. 4 Onevisions all running is great! More!
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. So if you haven't read it, and are curious as to who is in it, here is who played a big role, and the order (some what) that they appeared in:![[Wink]](wink.gif)
But it's getting late, and I have to go...![[Love]](graemlins/love.gif)
Bxx
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