During the "New 52" panel at this year's New York Comic-Con, Paul Levitz briefly mentioned that his next big story for Legion of Superheroes will be him reteaming with Kieth Giffen (no word if it's just him writing or doing the art as well).
Not a whole lot was said, other than it would involve the return of the Fatal Five, and it sounds like it will involve them shutting down a lot of technology around the United Planets, which Levitz said would probably be an even bigger disaster a thousand years from now then it would be now.
I'm kind-of excited for this--I haven't hated the current book at all, but I felt that it could have been a lot more exciting or interesting, so hopefully Giffen being involved will give the book a good kick in the pants.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
quote:Originally posted by Jay Kay: Not a whole lot was said, other than it would involve the return of the Fatal Five, and it sounds like it will involve them shutting down a lot of technology around the United Planets, which Levitz said would probably be an even bigger disaster a thousand years from now then it would be now.
Hmm... sounds suspiciously like the last story Levitz and Giffen did together (The Magic Wars), not to mention Gail Simone's No Better Reason. Still, it definitely has the potential to give this title the spark its been missing.
Posted by Conjure Lass on :
I would kill for the Fatal Five to disappear and never come back. Seriously. However, having a huge, technological disaster does sound a little intriguing. Granted, it isn't as though that plot hasn't been done before, but it'll probably make for interesting storytelling. The legion without their tech always seems to breed amusement.
That and Brainy is always amusing when he can't use his lab. And I love me some Brainy.
Posted by Jay Kay on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: Hmm... sounds suspiciously like the last story Levitz and Giffen did together (The Magic Wars), not to mention Gail Simone's No Better Reason. Still, it definitely has the potential to give this title the spark its been missing.
Sorry if this a bit of a noobish question, but Gail Simone wrote for the Legion at one point? I did not know that. I take it was during the Reboot era?
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Yeah, the last four issues of The Legion series. #35-#38 I believe. A pretty solid storyline, imo, but less impact than it could have had since it was pretty much the last real story of the reboot Legion.
Posted by Jay Kay on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: Yeah, the last four issues of The Legion series. #35-#38 I believe. A pretty solid storyline, imo, but less impact than it could have had since it was pretty much the last real story of the reboot Legion.
Cool. I'll have to look out for that one.
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
quote:Originally posted by Jay Kay:
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: Yeah, the last four issues of The Legion series. #35-#38 I believe. A pretty solid storyline, imo, but less impact than it could have had since it was pretty much the last real story of the reboot Legion.
Cool. I'll have to look out for that one.
It's also notable for having Postboot appearances of Nightwind and Infectious Lass, and for using both of them really well.
Posted by superboymddjr on :
and with the reintroduction of Fatal Five, I wonder how it will affect the history of Ferro Lad's death? That leaves one question - who were the villains that worked alongside the Legion in defeating Sun Eater?
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Perhaps they've never faced the Sun-Eater?
Posted by Jay Kay on :
It's interesting--I assumed that the Flashpoint/DCnU stuff wouldn't have affected the Legion, since it's so far in the future. Has it and I haven't noticed?
Posted by superboymddjr on :
speaking of Flashpoint, where is XS?!?!?!!?!? where is she?
Posted by Korbal on :
quote:Originally posted by Jay Kay: During the "New 52" panel at this year's New York Comic-Con, Paul Levitz briefly mentioned that his next big story for Legion of Superheroes will be him reteaming with Kieth Giffen (no word if it's just him writing or doing the art as well).
Not a whole lot was said, other than it would involve the return of the Fatal Five, and it sounds like it will involve them shutting down a lot of technology around the United Planets, which Levitz said would probably be an even bigger disaster a thousand years from now then it would be now.
I'm kind-of excited for this--I haven't hated the current book at all, but I felt that it could have been a lot more exciting or interesting, so hopefully Giffen being involved will give the book a good kick in the pants.
Paul stated previously that Keith would draw six issues, and that he would contribute ideas.
No! Don't let Keith Giffen draw any Legion Issue. He lost the touch to draw beutiful girls.. All the girls in the annual looks horrible(Ayla, Vi, Jeckie and The new Emerald Empress)
Posted by Dave Hackett on :
I still think we have no evidence other than the one interview that this will be the Fatal Five's first encounter with the Legion, rather than just their first appearance in the Nu52. In fact we've seen Fatal Five members already, including Validus (a whole other continuity headache), as Brainy had the Legionnaires checking out rumours of the FF RE-forming. I can't imagine Paul will contradict stuff from less than six months ago.
Posted by Jay Kay on :
quote:Originally posted by EmeraldEmpress: No! Don't let Keith Giffen draw any Legion Issue. He lost the touch to draw beutiful girls.. All the girls in the annual looks horrible(Ayla, Vi, Jeckie and The new Emerald Empress)
I like how Giffen draws now, but then while I do love me some Kirby-esque art, it would be cool do something that's a little more than a pastiche of it. Maybe he'll do that with this arc?
Posted by lowercase mllash on :
Giffen + Legion = win
Posted by Ken Arromdee on :
quote:Originally posted by Dave Hackett: Brainy had the Legionnaires checking out rumours of the FF RE-forming.
He's also suggested that the Legion may have met individual members of the Five, just not the group as a unit.
Though, given the fact that Tharok's origin is now tied into the events that lead Brainy to join the Legion, their original formation must have occurred while the Legion was active, it's going to be strange if they were actually a major force and yet the Legion didn't encounter them.
Posted by stuorstew on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: Hmm... sounds suspiciously like the last story Levitz and Giffen did together (The Magic Wars), not to mention Gail Simone's No Better Reason. Still, it definitely has the potential to give this title the spark its been missing.
Lets hope not as both those stories turned out to be the ends of their particular series.
Posted by kcekada on :
Let Giffen do layouts, but get Steve Lightle to do the pencil finishes. That's how they worked in the first deluxe format Legion series -- and the characters looked great.
Giffen can do amazing layout work -- but his characters, especially the ladies -- tend not to look very good.
Posted by Lone Wolf Legionnaire on :
quote:Originally posted by kcekada: Let Giffen do layouts, but get Steve Lightle to do the pencil finishes. That's how they worked in the first deluxe format Legion series -- and the characters looked great.
Giffen can do amazing layout work -- but his characters, especially the ladies -- tend not to look very good.
Keith Giffen is definitely an idea man with lots of creative energy, his current art style on the other hand takes away from my enjoyment of anything he might draw, Layouts would be a great help to younger artists on a book with as many characters as the Legion.
It would be great if Steve lightle were willing to work with Keith and Paul on the Legion again and be able to contribute more than just pretty pictures, I still don't know if he could keep up with so many characters on a monthly basis?
Posted by Jay Kay on :
And it begins in February--
LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES #17 Written by PAUL LEVITZ Art and cover by KEITH GIFFEN and SCOTT KOBLISH On sale FEBRUARY 20 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T • The legendary LEGION team of Paul Levitz and Keith Giffen are reunited and ready to put The Legion through hell as the Fatal Five make their deadly intentions known! • The Legion faces the FATAL FIVE for the first time! Is the team ready to go toe-to-toe with the most destructive force of the 31st century?
Certainly not the most feminine PG's ever looked, and the solicits are again doing the "Fatal Five for the first time!" nonsense, but I'm willing to give it a shot. Posted by Power Boy on :
I will give it a shot but, this die hard fan of KG has to say, PG looks like Frankenstein.
She kinda looks like Power Boy actually! Posted by Power Boy on :
whose hand is that? and where the frak is Jo when you need him ... Invisible Kid seems to like being way in over his head.
Posted by Harbinger on :
OMG Tinya AND Jacques! That looks rather explosive. Can't wait
I just had a thought, wouldn't it be grand if Tinya and Jacques were stranded somewhere and had a *moment* now that would be an interesting love triangle. It certainly would lead to some character development.
Posted by Pariscub on :
So exciting!
quote: Arguably the most popular creative team the 31st century has ever seen, Paul Levitz and Keith Giffen are reuniting once again to tell the tales of DC Comics' teenage heroes from the future. As revealed exclusively to CBR News, Giffen joins Levitz as the regular penciler on "Legion of Super-Heroes" with February's issue #17.
"Working with Keith is as exciting as reading his work," Levitz told CBR News of his and Giffen's reunion. "We'll be back to changing the technology of the future, the lives (and deaths) of Legionnaires, and connecting to wonderfully obscure pieces of DC mythology. Buckle up...it's a wild ride."
Posted by Blacula on :
Tinya's costume is SO boring IMO. People may say the bell-bottoms are out-dated but at least they give the eye something interesting to settle on. Other than the obligatory boob window, there is nothing about Tinya's costume that elevates it above that of a random background character's in a crowd scene.
Other than that, I don't mind the drawing of her here. People don't tend to look their best when they're jumping in pain/fright. Nice to see Jacques too.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
quote:Originally posted by Harbinger: OMG Tinya AND Jacques! That looks rather explosive. Can't wait
I just had a thought, wouldn't it be grand if Tinya and Jacques were stranded somewhere and had a *moment* now that would be an interesting love triangle. It certainly would lead to some character development.
Actually, I'd rather see them develop a friendship without it having any kind of romantic connotation (the long-term couples straining/breaking apart has been done enough lately, imo). It would be a nice throwback to the never-really-developed friendship between Tinya and Lyle. Maybe she could be the "big sis" that gives him advice on approaching Glorith or whomever?
Posted by MLLASH on :
SO TITS!!!!
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by Power Boy: I will give it a shot but, this die hard fan of KG has to say, PG looks like Frankenstein.
To this non-fan of Giffen, it's some of his best art of the last few decades. I'll take it over his 'everyone has square faces and botox lips' phase any day. Posted by Power Boy on :
I am confused as to why the intangible woman and the invisible man seem to be running from a hand. (when powers may be useful)
BUT I DO want to see Tinya and Jacques hand the Fatal Five their nasses!!! all by themselves. Posted by Conjure Lass on :
Wow PG...those are some manly shoulders you've got going on there.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I can't say I'm really digging the Tinya on the cover, but, man, this is pretty exciting!
Hmm... could the giant hand be Modo?
Posted by Jerry on :
Love it! Very dynamic. Jacques looks awesome. Tinya - Here's a term I've never used before - "Kirbyesque boob window."
[ November 09, 2012, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: Jerry ]
Posted by MLLASH on :
I think this Tinya looks very much like she is using every ounce of muscle she has to pull Jacques away from harm... love it, a LOT!
This is going to be nothing short of complete kickassery.
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
The hand: I imagine is meant to evoke what happened to the original IK.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
So... odds seem to be good that one or more Legionnaires will be dying to make room for the returning Lost Legionnaires... Posted by MLLASH on :
Lame, if true. Unless its Harmonia. *titter*
Posted by Lone Wolf Legionnaire on :
Well I guess Val Armorr won't be coming back anytime soon! If Paul needed a co-plotter Jim Shooter would have been my 1st choice, I would love to see the two of them play off of each other with the Legion caught in the middle, if he needed an artist Steve Lightle would have been my 1st choice out of all the great artists that have worked on the Legion, other than those two gentlemen I would love to see Paul do something Legion related with Alex Ross, Jim Starlin or Alan Davis and Mark Farmer.
Posted by EmeraldEmperor on :
For me (and many others), Giffen has been partially responsible for the best and the worst moments in the Legion. But I must say, I am looking forward to him to return even if it's only for a short time. He and Levitz do work well together.
If this is the cover of LSH #17, it's nice to see Phantom Girl finally making a cover, just as Violet finally makes the cover of #16. Now if Shadow Lass and Lightning Lass can finally get some attention....
Posted by superboymddjr on :
well I am still waiting for XS and Quislet to grace the Legion pages. Posted by cleome46 on :
quote:Originally posted by Harbinger: OMG Tinya AND Jacques! That looks rather explosive. Can't wait
I just had a thought, wouldn't it be grand if Tinya and Jacques were stranded somewhere and had a *moment* now that would be an interesting love triangle. It certainly would lead to some character development.
I don't know about the "love triangle" thing, but I want more Legion friendships in general. And that cover looks great to me.
(Also, I've mentioned it before: But it's time they amped up Jacques' skillset. He should be able to do more with invisibility, just as Sue Storm-Richards was eventually given an expanded skillset.)
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
Now what did Tinya and Jacques do to rile up Gim?
I hope Giffen ignites a spark with Levitz, but when their couple of years come to an end, I hope DC either lures Hickman from Marvel or entrusts the LSH with an unknown writer who's age-equivalent to the characters he or she is writing.
I really think the LSH needs fresh voices evoking the future.
Paradoxically, I hope Levitz becomes editor of LSH for life, whenever he decides to stop writing. That fresh vision of the future still needs a through line to the voices of the past.
Posted by Candlelight on :
quote:Originally posted by Set:
quote:Originally posted by Power Boy: I will give it a shot but, this die hard fan of KG has to say, PG looks like Frankenstein.
To this non-fan of Giffen, it's some of his best art of the last few decades. I'll take it over his 'everyone has square faces and botox lips' phase any day.
Keith's time as part of TMK had the awful 'black shadowed nose and mouth' phase, too. ugh
I'm looking forward to this arc.
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by cleome46: I don't know about the "love triangle" thing, but I want more Legion friendships in general.
Definitely. And it would certainly be a shocking development, for any sort of media, to present a friendship between a male and a female character that *isn't* all about sexual tension or subtext or will they/won't they.
(Tinya, Cham, Vi and Jacques, in particular, as members of the Espionage Squad, should be shown as having their own friendshippy moments, IMO.)
It's gotten so ridiculous that today's comic book writers can't seem to even write a story about siblings, like Pietro and Wanda, or Johnny and Sue, without some sort of creepy romantic vibe sneaking in, let alone write a non-romantic friendship between non-siblings of the opposite sex...
quote: (Also, I've mentioned it before: But it's time they amped up Jacques' skillset. He should be able to do more with invisibility, just as Sue Storm-Richards was eventually given an expanded skillset.)
Jacques definitely needs something. Even if he just, non-power-wise, studied and trained his butt off and became hyper-competent (like an awesome spy or secret agent, or a brilliant tactician, or a martial artist), making him more like 'Batman, who also has a super-power!' instead of 'mostly helpless dude who happens to have a pretty un-spectacular power.'
Building off of invisibility, which is all about manipulating light, is problematic for a Legionnaire since developing the ability to generate light would duplicate what Sun Boy gave up doing a long time ago, developing the ability to alter frequencies of light turns him into Color Kid, who was rejected for not having a good enough power, developing the ability to shape light and make patterns and images makes him a much weaker version of Princess Projectra, and developing the ability to negate light replicates Shadow Lass. Even if he could eventually do all of those things, it's hardly a unique niche for him.
A different tack might be for his ability to become invisible be defined less as messing with light, and more as messing with the properties of his body (in this case, making it translucent). By exploring that angle, he might instead develop the ability to alter *other* properties of his body, like it's PH (making himself acidic) or it's vibratory rate (allowing him to slowly phase through matter) or it's electrical potential (allowing him to shock people) or it's temperature (making himself incredibly cold or incredibly hot).
Or he could just use his powers intelligently, and stop A) forgetting to turn invisible during combat and / or B) blabbing and giving away his location while invisible.
Perhaps he could even wear invisible body armor, and use Lyle's invisibility formula to keep it invisible, even when he's totally visible, allowing people to mistakenly believe that he's blasterproof and can punch steel walls without hurting his hand.
An invisible dude who never announced his presence on a team (except to his teammates), but remained invisible 24/7 could be super effective, as enemies would never think to look for him, and always be surprised when random things just 'went wrong' for them (thanks to invisible dude they don't know even exists unplugging their equipment or jamming their weapons or slamming a door in someone's face or tripping one of them or pushing one of his fellow heroes out of the way of one of their deadly attacks).
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
If Tyroc got an upgrade in power and design, Jacques could equally benefit from some changes as Set describes.
A body breaking out of the soil makes me think of Mordru - and maybe some magic is preventing Tinya and Jacques from using their powers.
Tinya with short hair - I don't know....
Posted by razsolo on :
+1 to making Jacques an awesome martial artist...Vi and Dreamy became kickass fighters to compensate for their non-combat-related powers so why not give Jacques the same treatment? (though Vi at least should be ridiculously dangerous purely based on her power, but that's another topic I guess..)
If there's one thing that has become really obvious looking at the other Legion reboots, this version of the team is the least efficient. The other Legion teams used their powers in ways that this team never does, and the Legionnaires with less flashy powers were generally way better fighters. Triad and Umbra would kick their counterparts' asses eight ways from Sunday...
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by Fat Cramer: A body breaking out of the soil makes me think of Mordru - and maybe some magic is preventing Tinya and Jacques from using their powers.
Jacques always forgets to use his powers, so this is hardly something new. Tinya, on the other hand, may be staying tangible deliberately, so that she can help rescue Visible Kid.
(A nice upgrade to *her* power might be the ability to phase someone else out of danger or through a barrier...)
quote:Originally posted by razsolo: (though Vi at least should be ridiculously dangerous purely based on her power, but that's another topic I guess..)
Even a basic understanding of human(oid) anatomy should make her freakishly dangerous. Even using non-lethal tactics, such as zipping into someone's semicircular canal, in the inner ear, and expanding to push fluid against the entire interior, would make someone flail on the ground helplessly, as their body is utterly convinced that they are falling in every direction, at the same time.
Similarly, she could be-bop herself into the base of someone's spinal column, and expand to the size of a grain of rice, gently pushing aside nerve cells in the spinal cord and paralyzing her subject from the neck down. The effect would last only as long as she remains there, and she could leave at any time, without having inflicted any lasting effect other than a tingly sensation as feeling returns to the no-longer-paralyzed-person.
quote: If there's one thing that has become really obvious looking at the other Legion reboots, this version of the team is the least efficient.
Agreed. And that's not a Legion thing, either, it's a comic-book thing.
The Silver Age was loaded with examples of something dire appearing to happen on the cover, and inside the pages of the comic, the heroes *did something clever* to trick villains into thinking they were winning.
The last time I remember that sort of thing was in the introduction of the League of Super-Assassins, where the Legion fooled them into thinking they'd succeeded in killing a bunch of Legionnaires, or in the second issue of the Wolfman/Perez Teen Titans, where Raven spun an illusion to allow the Ravager to believe that he'd fulfilled his contract on the Titans.
These days, the heroes just go in blasting and take it on the chin (and often need ever escalating degrees of power, to allow them to accomplish anything despite their utter lack of tactics), and anywhere from dozens of civilians to entire *universes* end up getting destroyed, while the 'heroes' pretty much let the villains dictate the terms of every encounter.
[ November 11, 2012, 03:28 AM: Message edited by: Set ]
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
I've always and still do prefer the "get creative with powers" over the power upgrade or get better with powers plots, though I guess it makes sense to get better with powers. Likewise I guess I would expect all the Legionnaires to have non-powered combat proficiencies above the norm, that they'd be consistently training their martial arts.
I would expect more of them to show artistic skills if for no other reason than to get "it" out of their system. They see some horrific stuff.
Posted by Omni on :
i really don't like Griffin's style at all. but i'm hoping that the stories will get better with Levitz having a co-plotter again.
Posted by Mediocre Boy on :
About the "hand on the cover" identity question, it could also be Darkseid, I suppose. Paul and Keith have made significant use of the character more than once in the past, after all.
In the alternative, maybe it's Blok. Just a couple of guesses for our consideration.
Posted by Kid Quislet on :
Giant hand = Mega-Mano!
I'd like to see Jacques have his multi-dimension powers come back again. Not only would he be able to be invisible by light, but he could sneak around by dropping in and out of dimensions. Lyle Norg also experienced this with his ghost girlfriend way back...
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
I don't know what to say about the Fatal Five being retconned as just making their first appearance. Honestly, I have to say I trust Paul with whatever comes.
Posted by kcekada on :
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy: I've always and still do prefer the "get creative with powers" over the power upgrade or get better with powers plots, though I guess it makes sense to get better with powers.
Sometimes, a power upgrade is actually organic. For instance, Luornu may have always had the power to make multiples -- just wasn't aware of it. Perhaps, that's why she didn't die when her first triplet was killed.
I think it's high time some of the Legionnaires learned how to user their powers efficiently. Dream Girl having to take a nap?! Please, let's push those boundaries and let her use her powers while in combat, fer cryin' out loud.
And why should Jo need to use all of his ultra energy for one power at a time. Why not half- strength and half-invulnerability -- when necessary?
And can we please let Shady do more than block out light? I mean, those powers are mystical in origin, you'd think they'd be a bit more useful -- especially as an offense.
And by now, Lyda should be over the artifical light weakness. Surely, he genius of a father, could have conqurered that weakness by now!
Posted by razsolo on :
I personally would hate for the legionnaires to lose their unique limitations...it's what makes them so appealing to me, that they have quirky powers which can save the day but a lot of the time their cunning/intellect/resourcefulness is what REALLY saves the day.
Two of my favourite LSH moments are Brainy throwing the Infinite Man at the Time Trapper to deal with them both, and powerless Rokk's dinner with Mordru in an early 5YL issue.
I think removing their quirks makes them more generic and loses their charm....Night Girl without her weakness to light is just another strong woman...
Posted by Silver Age Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by razsolo: I personally would hate for the legionnaires to lose their unique limitations...it's what makes them so appealing to me, that they have quirky powers which can save the day but a lot of the time their cunning/intellect/resourcefulness is what REALLY saves the day.
Two of my favourite LSH moments are Brainy throwing the Infinite Man at the Time Trapper to deal with them both, and powerless Rokk's dinner with Mordru in an early 5YL issue.
I think removing their quirks makes them more generic and loses their charm....Night Girl without her weakness to light is just another strong woman...
I agree up to a point. My problem at the moment is that Levitz is reducing Legionnaires power levels (such as Jan) or making the Legionnaires look inept. Most of the Legionnaires have been fighting bad-asses for years so for example Jan not turning oxygen to helium as routine before facing off seems a bit dumb to say the least.
And some of the restrictions on powers would have been got around by Legion technology. For example Lydda's trans-suit could block out light to make her powerful in any conditions as long as her trans-suit is intact
Posted by EmeraldEmperor on :
I think Levitz made great use of Element Lad and Chemical Kid in LSH #14. They were creative and inventive, and worked as a team.
Posted by Jay Kay on :
quote:Originally posted by Set: An invisible dude who never announced his presence on a team (except to his teammates), but remained invisible 24/7 could be super effective, as enemies would never think to look for him, and always be surprised when random things just 'went wrong' for them (thanks to invisible dude they don't know even exists unplugging their equipment or jamming their weapons or slamming a door in someone's face or tripping one of them or pushing one of his fellow heroes out of the way of one of their deadly attacks).
What they could also do is, to further work that angle, is have Jaques declared dead, which would make Jaques even less expected, because who would be prepared for a ghost?
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by Jay Kay: What they could also do is, to further work that angle, is have Jaques declared dead, which would make Jaques even less expected, because who would be prepared for a ghost?
Ah, but [fanwank] would people fall for that again, after Lyle and Condo faked their deaths and formed the Secret Legion?[/fanwank]
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
They sort of did that with postboot Jacques, as I recall, though he was a spy rather than a member of the Legion.
Posted by Merlion Man on :
My theory is Phantom Girl has been kidnapped and replace with Phantom Lad on Profem. Hence, the "don't touch" comment. With the return of the Fatal Five, who has the time to take medication? Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Nothing really new.
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
quote:Originally posted by Merlion Man: My theory is Phantom Girl has been kidnapped and replace with Phantom Lad on Profem. Hence, the "don't touch" comment.
Would be a nice homage to Dirk being the one to figure out that Garth was really Ayla.
Figures that Dirk would be the one to develop the talent to tell biological females from Profem females!
Posted by Korbal on :
Well, Paul states that the Legion has previously faced members of the Fatal Five (which remember, they were being called before any of the villains ever met) just never all together at once. This easily allows most of past LSH history to exist. During the Sun-Eater crisis, Jeckie was never able to find the Persuader (the one FF member not in mortal danger) thus only Tharok, Emerald Empress, Mano, and Validius were present when Ferro Lad sacrificed himself. Months later, the Fatal Four escape Talok VIII and their attempt to conquer the UP fails but not before Tharok takes Validus under his control. From then on, Tharok forges a tenuous alliance of convience with the Persuader and the others but various circumstances conspire against the Legion ever fully confronting the full complement of the Fatal Five. Lyle is still crushed by Validus answering the beacon of Tharok's brain fragments, and Sarya still kills herself with Jeckie's help prior to the Magic Wars...
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Nrama: And you already said "no one is safe." That sounds like someone is going to die.
Giffen: Yeah, it does, doesn't it?
Nrama: Can you describe the story you guys are telling over the next few months?
Giffen: Without giving away too much, the next few months is a Fatal Five story. And we'll begin to inject real consequence into the Legion book. We'll make it harder to do things in the 30th Century.
Posted by the Hermit on :
hmmmmmmm
Posted by jdpinball on :
I have a feeling that we will lose a few long time Legionnaires and that the emphasis will be placed on the younger members of the team. And we will likely see new members.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Yeah, if they give us this "no one is safe" spiel, and then do something predictable like kill off one of the new kids or an inactive Legionnaire or something, it's going to seem pretty lame.
My gut tells me the two most likely candidates are Cosmic Boy and Element Lad. Rokk is the only active founder, and killing him would really put the team through the ringer. Jan has mostly been seen in the mentor relationship with Chemical Kid lately, and his death would eliminate the semi-redundancy of their powers, as well as proving a possible turning point for Hadru.
Brainiac Five would be really daring, and we've seen Levitz and Giffen flirt with a Brainy-less Legion during their last collaboration, so it's not impossible, but I just don't see it actually happening.
Of course, they may just fall back on something lame and predictable after all. Oh, what's that you say? The Fatal Five just landed on Bismoll? I wonder what's going to happen? Posted by EmeraldEmpress on :
The very lame thing is...if for have a good story the writers must kill a very loved character. It means that capacity of imagination of them is not so big and they go to the easy thing.
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
Paul did this same thing before starting this new run and it resulted mostly in an epidemic of eye rolling. Blow up a planet? Sleep with your best friend but he's not your best friend yet....
Just tell good stories. Don't manufacture controversy and drama.
Posted by the Hermit on :
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy:
Just tell good stories. Don't manufacture controversy and drama.
The entire industry could benefit from that advice
Posted by Set on :
Eh. Coming from someone who dreads Giffen returning to the Legion, I'm pretty much jaded to this anyway.
Could be worse. If he's going for 'drama!,' he might veer away from his "comedy." (Note my use of sarcastic air quotes.)
It could be the all-Ambush Bug and Lobo show, guest-starring the dreadfully uptight Legion of Super-Incompetents, who serve as their hapless comedic foils and look annoyed (complete with little black squiggly over their scrunched up faces) whenever Ambush Bug does something whacky or Lobo saves the day, for instance.
Posted by EmeraldEmperor on :
My guess is Cosmic Boy is going to die after showing how heroic he is without his powers.
Posted by Lone Wolf Legionnaire on :
Hoping for the best, it goes without saying that Levitz and Giffen had a legendary run during the 80's!
My biggest concern is that right after they had finished with my favorite characters it occurred to me that there was a Legion before Levitz and Giffen, just not after Levitz and Giffen?
Of course Crisis on Infinite Earths and John Byrne had a lot to do with that.
Posted by Candlelight on :
I'm certainly not looking forward to killing to show the consequences of fighting in the 31st century. Like, we don't have killing everywhere around us in the 21st.
A thousand years from now, and to understand consequences, we have to have dead and wounded warriors. I think Giffen and Levitz are the ones who need to understand about consequences. We'll see.
And I hope it's not Cos. His family has already lost Pol.
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by EmeraldEmperor: My guess is Cosmic Boy is going to die after showing how heroic he is without his powers.
CB lost his powers? Hmm, did I go pick up my issues last month? Drat, I think I'd better get over there. Lost track of time.
Posted by EmeraldEmperor on :
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy:
quote:Originally posted by EmeraldEmperor: My guess is Cosmic Boy is going to die after showing how heroic he is without his powers.
CB lost his powers? Hmm, did I go pick up my issues last month? Drat, I think I'd better get over there. Lost track of time.
His magnetism is recovering apparently.
Posted by Jay Kay on :
I think the key phrase from what Giffen's saying is that "We'll make it harder to do things in the 30th Century." Considering that they talked about a massive galactic-wide blackout when this was announced, I'm thinking that part of it is that technology is going to be regressed or at least heavily complicated. Think like the endings of Mass Effect 3.
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
or maybe the Mayans were 1000 years off?
Posted by EmeraldGladiators on :
For me I hope they kill off a lot of the newbies and focus on the 'classic' Legionnaires. Not that I hate the newbies but they are getting too much face time at the expense of characters we know and loved for years.
Posted by Mediocre Boy on :
The things that bugs me about the newbies are their irreverent attitudes and their outfits. But Chemical Kid's minor character growth in the latish issue dod molidfy me somewhat.
Posted by kcekada on :
The newbs are boring and have no fashion sense. I think Chemical Kid could be saved with a make over. The rest can die at the hands of the Fatal Five.
Posted by the Hermit on :
I hope Levitz is able to reign in Giffen's tendency to go over the top with some things. Remember, it was Giffen's idea to blow up the Earth, an ill-advised move that led to the entire franchise being rebooted. In fact, some of what I'm hearing from him now reminds me of the massive changes that came with the 5YL series. Although that series, in retrospect, was very well done, it did take the Legion past the point of no return in many ways.
As far as killing off major characters I want a free pass to substitute Harmonia Li for any one character that he decides to do away with. I can't imagine myself being a fan of any Legion that lost, say, Cham or Tinya and kept Harmonia instead. The fact is that Harmonia callously allowed Titan to be destroyed, even though it was clearly shown that she knew what was likely to happen and could have acted to prevent it. As far as I'm concerned, that makes her culpable in the deaths of millions (billions?) of sentients and definitely not Legion material.
Posted by Candlelight on :
quote:Originally posted by Jay Kay: I think the key phrase from what Giffen's saying is that "We'll make it harder to do things in the 30th Century." Considering that they talked about a massive galactic-wide blackout when this was announced, I'm thinking that part of it is that technology is going to be regressed or at least heavily complicated. Think like the endings of Mass Effect 3.
I don't know what the endings of Mass Effect 3 are, but I don't think the writers can make things too difficult and retain the essense of the Legion.
Multiple planets and cultures with quick space travel linking them are absolute requirements for this book.
And they really only have three or four options - science, religion, magic or multiple billions of Shikaris/Gates/Rond Vidars(Green Lanterns.)
I like the kids, Glorith and Dragonwing. They have vast potential, imo, and kids tend to be emotional and extreme in their attitudes, so they don't bother me. CK is not a favorite of mine, though, I'm afraid.
Harmonia is a waste of space.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
The attitude of the kids doesn't bother me so much as they are, you know, kids, and it strikes me as fairly standard, if cliched, newbie characterization. I'm much more bothered characterization-wise by turning Brek into someone irresponsible enough that he passes out drunk in the street or the continued Vril-ification of Brainy.
I really think the title needs some of the boldness of the 5YL era or DnA's run, both of which had things I really didn't like, but at least they weren't boring, which is what the title has hovered around being the past few years. And, anyway, stuff I don't like can always be fixed in the inevitable next reboot. Posted by Blockade Boy on :
My Major objection to the Vrillification of Brainy isn't the change in Brainy so much as the absconding with the personality of the of the best characters I've ever read. Vril is a character that Brainy should be afraid of, should they ever meet.
and speaking of all time best
quote:Originally posted by the Hermit: I hope Levitz is able to reign in Giffen's tendency to go over the top with some things. Remember, it was Giffen's idea to blow up the Earth,
one of the best single issues, ever.
But in hind sight, I'm not sure it being "Earth" was what made it. I think that whole story line probably would have worked as Legion trying fruitlessly to save some other system, probably a Legion home world.
Posted by the Hermit on :
I agree that it was an outstanding issue.
Unfortunately it was also a major bridge burner.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I actually thought that bringing in the Pocket Universe Earth as a replacement was actually a pretty sweet idea. I would've been pretty happy with that, if Zero Hour hadn't happened.
Posted by Mediocre Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: I actually thought that bringing in the Pocket Universe Earth as a replacement was actually a pretty sweet idea. I would've been pretty happy with that, if Zero Hour hadn't happened.
Me, too.
Posted by rokk steady on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: I really think the title needs some of the boldness of the 5YL era or DnA's run, both of which had things I really didn't like, but at least they weren't boring, which is what the title has hovered around being the past few years. And, anyway, stuff I don't like can always be fixed in the inevitable next reboot.
Couldn't agree more.
Posted by Jay Kay on :
Agreed on the boringness--it's part of why I've been enjoying Legion Lost more. Sure, it's a bit of a hot mess, but at least it's not being SAFE.
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: I actually thought that bringing in the Pocket Universe Earth as a replacement was actually a pretty sweet idea. I would've been pretty happy with that, if Zero Hour hadn't happened.
But the Pocket Universe Earth was rendered lifeless by Zod & co in Matrix-Supergirl's origin story. The effect that story's ending - where Superman executes the three Kryptonian criminals for killing that Earth - had on the series, leading to the year-long Exile arc that introduced the Eradicator and (by extension) the post-Crisis Fortress of Solitude, Reign of the Supermen and Return of Superman was THE WHOLE REASON the Pocket Universe story was preserved in any form in the Glorithverse when everything else Super-related got yanked from the Legion!
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Nothing a little terraforming wouldn't fix.
Though, of course, how annoying is it that after Superboy gave his life to insure the preservation and future safety of his Earth, Byrne went ahead and destroyed all life on it. Jeepers, DC! What kind of crap will you think of next? You might as well bring Earth-2 Superman back from his post-Crisis paradise, and then have him beaten to death by the Superboy of Earth-Prime! Oh, wait... Posted by Jay Kay on :
A lot of the lead-up to it was kinda crap, but looking back, there was some good stuff in Infinite Crisis, IMO.
Posted by Blacula on :
^ I'm of the opposite opinion. I thought the one-shot special Countdown to Infinite Crisis (not to be confused with the excremental Countdown to Final Crisis) was excellent, and the 4 lead-in mini-series' (most especially Day of Vengeance) were all pretty good too.
But Infinite Crisis itself was just a jumbled mess to me. It had a few good moments but they were few and far between and as a sequel to the much better in every way Crisis on Infinite Earths, I thought it did that first series a real disservice too.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
You know... all of that stuff kind of blends together for me now.
I did like the whole giant tuning fork with heroes from various realities hooked up to it, but that's about all I remember liking in the series.
Posted by The Man From Cargg on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester:
Brainiac Five would be really daring, and we've seen Levitz and Giffen flirt with a Brainy-less Legion during their last collaboration, so it's not impossible, but I just don't see it actually happening.
A Brainy-less legion might actually be a real possibility as Giffen states "And it becomes really easy to just have them grab some piece of technology off the shelf and go, here's how we end it! He uses this super-neutralizer." And who better to have invented that no longer accessible super-neutralizer in the past - Brainy!
Posted by Harbinger on :
A Brainy-less Legion wouldn't be a bad thing, if only for a year or two anyway. The franchise certainly needs a shake up as the Lost crew return and they get their team numbers up to a decent level again it would be good to see that they aren't returned to the status quo immediately. If they are planning to get rid of a few old timers - if only retiring them, it's a brave but IMO necessary step for the group to evolve.
Maybe the group could be split up a bit - an Earth based group alongside an academy group, a Webers World group, a roving strike force, the kids on Talkon-Galtos etc. That way at least we could hope to see a wider selection of members on a rotating basis rather than Brainy, Nura, Cos and Jo in just about every issue.
Posted by Conjure Lass on :
It's kind of sad to me that the only way most writers can produce a dramatic shake up is through character death. I've been a writer for 15 years, and I rarely if ever write deaths due to it being so extreme. It should be used sparingly otherwise it loses all it's effectiveness! Killing characters just because you can and need a drama kick is really very lame.
That being said, I hope they don't kill anyone. It is entirely possible to revitalize this (admittedly boring) series without going that route.
And, I know I'm biased due to Brainiac 5 being my favorite character, but I really hope they don't get rid of him. If they want to push him to the background for a little while, fine. But I think I would cry openly if they killed him.
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Invisible Kid seems to like being way in over his head.
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Nice to see Jacques too.
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