Ok, with all the hoopla surrounding LSH #6 noone has commented on Legacies #6. I picked this up more so for the Legion presence than anything else. I have to tell you though that the Wein/Giffen back-up story was, well, perplexing to say the least! We see not just the classic story about the founders showing up in a time bubble to meet with Clark, but also other Legions (including the threeboot Legion's Supergirl and Light Lass) from different continuities and timelines show up at the same time. All these Legions tell or warn Clark about coming with them to the future to fulfill his destiny of becoming Superman or tell him not to come to the future for his own safety (Xenophobe Earth), or something to that effect. Another version even needs his help against Roxxas!
I wonder what this story is meant to do. It certainly seems like an ambitious undertaking. Maybe it's the start of a bigger story that's meant to fix all the plot holes that Lo3W dredged up? Why now though when things seemed to have levelled off a bit with the new Levitz series doing well, and another companion to the Legion in the form of Adventure Comics? What's the point of going back and "fixing" something unless it's meant to right some continuity wrongs?
I can't wait to see how it all plays out though. It continues with something entitled "The Time Pool" (next ish?).
On another note Giffen's art was, how do I put this tenderly,... not my cup of tea. Oh how I yern for the Great Darkness Saga Giffen!
I know, I KNOW .... it's just MY opinion. Posted by lil'rhino on :
This story was Giffen's way of ridiculing DC for all their reboots & tweaks & zero hours & re-reboots and how it messed with the Legion over the years. So instead of the classic Supes meets the Legion origin, it's now cluttered with countless numbers of time bubbles with countless versions of the Legion, giving both Kal-El and the readers a terrible migraine!! I loved it!
Posted by Iam Legion on :
Sounds different. I haven't got the chance to read it yet since the local store didn't get it in. Looking forward to it.
Posted by Awkward Pause Boy on :
Len Wien gets credit as writer. I wonder how much of the plot was his and how much was Giffen's.
Posted by rouge on :
Reposted from the Gym'll thread:
I thought the back-up was terrible as well. Mostly because this series has for the most part been a showcase for various parts of the DCU. So when it's Legion's turn they get treated like a joke, highlighting all the things that keep people away from the Legion (Crazy continuity, no consistency, etc.). This story did the legion no favours and was a huge letdown (even worse, it wasn't funny).
Posted by Silver Age Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by rouge: Reposted from the Gym'll thread:
I thought the back-up was terrible as well. Mostly because this series has for the most part been a showcase for various parts of the DCU. So when it's Legion's turn they get treated like a joke, highlighting all the things that keep people away from the Legion (Crazy continuity, no consistency, etc.). This story did the legion no favours and was a huge letdown (even worse, it wasn't funny).
I agree rouge, if this story had been published in a book meant to be out-of-contuinuity and funny (like Bizarro World) then this may have been OK. But the convoluted bunch of dumb and obnoxious characters portrayed in this story did nothing to promote the Legion or its current on-going series. Just the opposite.
quote:Originally posted by lil'rhino: This story was Giffen's way of ridiculing DC for all their reboots & tweaks & zero hours & re-reboots and how it messed with the Legion over the years. So instead of the classic Supes meets the Legion origin, it's now cluttered with countless numbers of time bubbles with countless versions of the Legion, giving both Kal-El and the readers a terrible migraine!!
The aim may have been to ridicule DC, lil'rhino but what he actually did was ridicule the Legion.
Posted by Chaim Mattis Keller on :
I posted in the DCU Legacies thread (in the Dr. Gym'll forum) about this as well. Terribe story. Absolutely awful. There really isn't much more than that to say.
Posted by Iam Legion on :
WoW! Was it really that bad?
Posted by Chaim Mattis Keller on :
Yes. You want to hear the plot? Here's the plot: A bunch of Legionnaires from various points in Legion history all arrive in Smallville in their time bubbles at the same time, and instead of getting their various messages to Superboy/young Clark Kent, they end up squabbling with each other until Clark tells them to shut up and go home. The end.
Oh, and the art was bad, too.
Posted by Iam Legion on :
All from different points in the same history.... or from the differrent versions of the Legion (like: original, post CoIE, 5YL, post ZeroHour, Threboot, current)?
Posted by future king on :
I guess one could see this first part as a mockery of the whole jumbled up Legion reboot/continuity thing, but my fondest hope is that this isn't what it actually becomes. This series is entitled "Legacies" after all so it must be meant to generalize the Legion mythos in a serious, respectful way as a whole. At least, I hope that's what it will do in the end! I guess we'll have to wait until next month to see what the second part of this tale has in store. I have to assume though that Wein, Giffen et al wouldn't try and deliberately hurt the Legion franchise with this mock ribbing. What good would that do, seriously?
Posted by Chaim Mattis Keller on :
Iam Legion:
quote:All from different points in the same history.... or from the differrent versions of the Legion (like: original, post CoIE, 5YL, post ZeroHour, Threboot, current)?
Mostly from the current post-Infinite Crisis history, but at least one from the Threeboot.
Posted by Superboy-Supergirl on :
What no one's gonna talk about Supergirl in the last costume she had Pre-Crisis? and wondering who she is? or which Kara she is.
Posted by rouge on :
Sorry future king,
The next issue's back-up deals with the Atom, Chronos and the Time Pool, with the Atom ending up in Camelot (so we'll see Shining Knight and the Demon I assume). There are no more Legion appearances mentioned for the series so far. What we saw in #6 is all we'll get.
Posted by Legion Tracker on :
I'm not an AR collector, but I pick up most appearances of the Legion. This one I perused and put back. It just seemed goofy and not worth 4 bucks.
Posted by Kid Quislet on :
quote:Originally posted by lil'rhino: This story was Giffen's way of ridiculing DC for all their reboots & tweaks & zero hours & re-reboots and how it messed with the Legion over the years. So instead of the classic Supes meets the Legion origin, it's now cluttered with countless numbers of time bubbles with countless versions of the Legion, giving both Kal-El and the readers a terrible migraine!! I loved it!
I'm glad someone liked it - I thought it was terrible. I find it ironic that Mr. Giffen thought it appropriate to ridicule all the reboots, when it was his 5YL version that drove the Legion cruiser into the ditch and consequently forced reboots from its ashes. It's been 15+ years since his Legion experiment and the dust from that nuke cloud hasn't settled yet...
Posted by Silver Age Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Kid Quislet:
quote:Originally posted by lil'rhino: This story was Giffen's way of ridiculing DC for all their reboots & tweaks & zero hours & re-reboots and how it messed with the Legion over the years. So instead of the classic Supes meets the Legion origin, it's now cluttered with countless numbers of time bubbles with countless versions of the Legion, giving both Kal-El and the readers a terrible migraine!! I loved it!
I'm glad someone liked it - I thought it was terrible. I find it ironic that Mr. Giffen thought it appropriate to ridicule all the reboots, when it was his 5YL version that drove the Legion cruiser into the ditch and consequently forced reboots from its ashes. It's been 15+ years since his Legion experiment and the dust from that nuke cloud hasn't settled yet...
Although the story has all the hallmarks of a Keith Giffen 'comedy' story, the writing credits go to Len Wien and the editor was Mike Carlin. How did these two DC professionals end up allowing this nonesense to be published?
I wonder what Paul Levitz thinks as this story will really have helped the sales of his Legion books.
Posted by Para-Dox on :
quote:Originally posted by Superboy-Supergirl: What no one's gonna talk about Supergirl in the last costume she had Pre-Crisis? and wondering who she is? or which Kara she is.
Current theories 1) She's from the new Earth One as part of the as yet unexplored infinite multiverse set up by Morrison in Final Crisis. (more than 52 Supermen) 2) She's current Kara from the future that was pulled into the Crisis just like Legion were leaving Crisis as her final fate. (Which is hella nifty)
Posted by Iam Legion on :
I think it's theory #2, but theory #1 would be good also.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Para-Dox:
quote:Originally posted by Superboy-Supergirl: What no one's gonna talk about Supergirl in the last costume she had Pre-Crisis? and wondering who she is? or which Kara she is.
Current theories 1) She's from the new Earth One as part of the as yet unexplored infinite multiverse set up by Morrison in Final Crisis. (more than 52 Supermen) 2) She's current Kara from the future that was pulled into the Crisis just like Legion were leaving Crisis as her final fate. (Which is hella nifty)
quote:Originally posted by Iam Legion: I think it's theory #2, but theory #1 would be good also.
Just so you guys realize this (and you might already) but Legacies has been filled with all kinds of errors continuity-wise that make it clearly not cannon. They've got the Losers living into the 70's, Booster helping out in Crisis and many other things.
So it stands on its own as its own thing, but it certainly isn't 'in continuity'.
Posted by Iam Legion on :
Actually, No, I didn't know that. I thought this was supposed to be the lastest 'definitive' history of the DCU. So, is it more of a 'just because we can' then? Sort of like 'Countdown to Final Crisis' continuity wise?
Posted by Superboy-Supergirl on :
quote: Just so you guys realize this (and you might already) but Legacies has been filled with all kinds of errors continuity-wise that make it clearly not cannon. They've got the Losers living into the 70's, Booster helping out in Crisis and many other things.
So it stands on its own as its own thing, but it certainly isn't 'in continuity'.
This could be Post Infinite Crisis Continuity.
Posted by future king on :
I certainly hope there is more to it than just an in-house joke about the Legion continuity.
My more pressing fear is that we'll see more of this "quality" of artwork from Giffen when the LSH Annual comes out in a couple of months. Can you imagine a whole book looking like that? No disrespect for the folks out there that enjoy this type of art though.
Posted by Iam Legion on :
Ok, I finnally got to read this story. I am sure that I will get jumped on for this, but.... It was HORRIBLE. AWFUL. Insulting to the LSH and to the fans. The art (and I really hate to use the term for this work) was grating on the eyes and the nerves. The story not only was uninteresting dreck, but also an obvious insult aimed not at the number of reboots, but at the readers that have had so many different versions thrown at us that we can nolonger even agree amoungst ourselves as to what the Legion is and should be. Clark's lines 'means something to all of you....as soon as you all can agree on what that something is, get back to me' is just about the snottiest treatment of the readers I have seen. Is Len Wien even a real writer? I ask because I don't keep up with writer or artists names much, but this story seems a lot like the use of Superboy Prime to ridicule the fans that complained about changes to the Legion. Could it be another writer using a suedonym?
Posted by Blacula on :
He's pretty much a comics legend.
Posted by Iam Legion on :
Thanks for the link, I found it educational. I don't usually pay attention to artists or writers unless I love/hate something they have created. Otherwise, I am only concerned with the result, not who get's credit or blame for it. Unless, it is so awful that I fear if the person ever gets involved again... whicn is pretty much the case here. If this really was his work (and not something being falsely atributed to him to shift responsibility) then I pray that he is never allowed to think about the Legion again, let alone write anything for them, for the rest of his life. It wasn't funny and it did nothing to draw new readers to the new series. It was nothing but a huge slam of the characters and the readers. If this series is supposed to be the new 'definative' history of the DCU (and I think that is in question?) then appearently DC cares nothing about the Legion at all except for what money they can squeeze out of us before they toss the book in the can..... again.
Posted by EmeraldEmpress on :
Absolutely in agreement with I Am Legion. Frightful it is only a mercy word. I hope Mr Giffen don't do more disasters in the annual with my precious Empress... Pa Kent look like a zombie anorexic....
Posted by MLLASH on :
heh! Of course, I enjoyed it. I can see it bumming out fans who look at LEGACIES as the current be-all 'History of the DCU' but I think it's far too full of continuity inconsistencies to be considered that.
It amused me and I love the art. Posted by Crymsun Kid on :
The art was great..! The story was kind of funny.. but I was looking for something a little more serious.
Would a story like this bring in new readers to the Legion? I doubt it.
Posted by future king on :
I think writing a story like that should be to bring new readers into the Legion mythos. Why do it if that isn't the case? Shoot yourself in the foot much? Posted by Chemical King on :
While the story did only get one minor chuckle out of me (Imra: "Why do I look so harsh"), I did not feel insulted by it. As a Legion fan since the late 70s, I rather felt insulted when the Legion was rebooted in 1994 - to make fun about this insult is less of an insult, in my eyes... rather some form of gallows humor, which has to be permitted after all that we've been through.
Still, the story, like most of the Legacies backstories, is totally redundant. The main series is fantastic in my eyes, some of the best books DC has done in years, but those backups stink.
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