Ok yeah, I know .... he already came back. Actually, he's come back a few times if you count the reboots as well as the Lightning Saga (good) and 52 (not so good, imho).
After seeing Sensor Girl/Projectra in the spotlight lately I guess I just miss the special relationship she had with Val. Their love was "unique" amoung the Legion couples in that he was a 'powerless commoner' who had to work extra hard to become a hero and she was an heiress with a power who probably had everything handed to her while growing up (prior to becoming a Legionnaire where she learned humility over time). He then goes on to have his own comic book, comes back, gets killed and is avenged by his widow ... who in turn quits as well to rule her homeworld, only to come back later as an amped up hero in disguise. Definately lots of "stuff" there between the two of them that has enriched the Legion history for decades.
I envision Paul bringing Val back with total amnesia or something ... he doesn't remember a thing, except that he was put on the planet to be a hero and protect people. Would he seek out the Legion or would they even want him? Would his relationship with Jeckie be there? She would probably be all over him (naturally), but would he still feel the same about her?
My hope is that Paul Levitz will, after he's done with his current plot and planned imminent plot-lines, find a way to bring back the original Karate Kid. Maybe with all the recent timeline resets and Post Crisis stuff, Paul can find a way to bring back one of my favourite Legionnaires. It would be so great to have KK be a part of this promising new Legion comic!
I know this is all just the little kid in me wishing and dreaming here, but I'm also hoping I'm not alone with this wish ... and if Paul hears the request enough maybe he will fulfill the demand by bringing KK back.
I guy can dream, right?
P.S. If they do bring him back just so Keith Giffen can kill him again then the whole thing's off! I change my mind!!! LOL
[ October 05, 2010, 07:17 AM: Message edited by: future king ]
Posted by Doctor One on :
What would Sensor Girl do if the reboot´s Karate Kid came to this Legion, like Xs and Gates did? That would be an interesting story, I think. (That Karate Kid IS still alive, isn´t he? I do get quite confused about these things).
PS. He should bring Kid Quantum and especially Lyle Norg/Invisible Kid with him. A little clique of Legion II members could be interesting. Heck, even Sneckie would be fun. Perhaps with other powers? How would Sensor Girl and Sneckie interact with each other?
Posted by jimgallagher on :
I liked KK, but I don't want him brought back. He's been killed and revived too many times already. He's going to become the new Jean Grey if he's not careful.
Posted by cleome on :
As much as I hate deaths in comics, I hate resurrections more.
Val was never all that interesting to me in the original Legion. Though I never understood the irrational hatred Giffen had for him.
I was pretty fond of the Threeboot version, though. The animated-verse version had potential, too;despite the writers kind of sticking their foot in it a time or two.
[ October 05, 2010, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: cleome ]
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Val was never a favorite of mine, plus Jeckie was a more interesting character after his death. I wouldn't mind the revelation that they had a child, though.
Posted by Lone Wolf Legionnaire on :
Future King, I agree Val Armorr was to great of a character to be killed off, my idea is I think Paul should make him the 31st century version of the Resurrection Man, that way Keith can kill him off as many times as he likes, and Val keeps on coming back, Keith's happy and Val's fans are happy, a win win!
Posted by EmeraldEmpress on :
The Resurrection Man idea work for me. For other side...everybody have forgotten that Stealth killed Vril Dox and later create a clon with all the memories, in the 21th century. Where this technology is? Ferro Lad, Invisible Kid, Chemical King, Karate Kid, Kid Quantum are waiting...
Posted by Set on :
I loved that the Legion had a guy who was just awesome enough that he broke their 'must have powers' rule. But his story was told, and told well.
His death had some meaning to it, and Jeckie has developed nicely since then. I think it would be a step backwards to bring him back, for both his character and for hers.
I don't hate ressurections of characters, and would like to see many characters whose stories don't feel like they even got off the ground, let alone were wrapped up so neatly, come back to life (Chemical King, for example). But when a character had a good run, and died in an appropriately powerful manner, as happened with Karate Kid, Hal Jordan, Barry Alan, Jean Grey and Sarya, for examples, a resurrection, IMO, cheapens not only the original powerful story, but also the character, if there isn't some really awesome and compelling reason to bring them back (and I picked those five examples for the very reason that all of them were returned, but not for any powerful or dramatic reason, just 'because'). Karate Kid's resurrection for Lightning Saga was particularly egregious.
If Adventure is used properly, they can continue to tell stories about Karate Kid (and Invisible Lyle, and Chemical King, etc.) without having to resurrect the character, just by regaling us with untold tales of their adventures before his death.
Best of both worlds.
Which is why they probably won't do that...
Posted by Blacula on :
The only deaths in comics that I want to 'stick' are the ones that were well-told in good stories and that had repurcussions that made the later stories better. Ferro Lad, Barry Allen, Jason Todd, everyone else on Set's list (except Hal Jordan - Final Night was not a good story and his death there was pretty stupid, and as Geoff has proved, the Green Lantern mythos is much better for having him in it - but then I've always found Kyle Rainer to be one of the most 'character'-less characters I've ever read so maybe I'm biased), a bunch of others.
Characters who died in sucky ways just so some hack writer can try to make their crappy story more *important* not only should be brought back, IMO MUST be brought back. Graduation Day is probably the worst story I've ever read in comics and Lilith's death there was disgracefully written. Same goes for every single death in Justice League: Whine About Justice. I could go on and on - Kid Devil, Kid Eternity, Dolphin, Koryak, Vulko, Aquaman's entire supporting cast... so many more. The DCU is not better for having those great characters not in it. It's much worse IMO. If we weren't suffering under the worst senior editorship in the company's history they would never have been killed in the first place.
So to Karate Kid. I really like him. Seeing him come back in Meltzer's JLA was probably the thing that excited me the most about those great early issues. But there's also no doubt that he had a great, heroic, well-written, shocking (in a good way) death that had important repurcussions for the team and sent Jeckie to a better place (personality/impact-wise, not identity-wise - I prefer the identity of Princess Projectra a thousand times more than the stale Sensor Girl, wish she would just hurry up and become Queen Projectra already). So I'm torn on bringing him back. Ultimately though, I think Val had a good run and (like Ferro Lad) he serves the Legion more by staying dead. I'm all for seeing more appearances by the Reboot Val somewhere or other though (have no interest in anything whatsoever Threeboot so hopefully that one can stay away).
Condo and Lyle are the more interesting quandary IMO. The Reboot proved that Lyle is a force of a character to be reckoned with. Man, that character almost stole the whole Reboot IMO. He was fantastic. It seems almost criminal that he's just gone from our pages now. And Condo was an interesting character who was never really given much of a chance. I think their returns would be more interesting to me than Val's. But having said that, and my spiel above about bringing characters back who had sucky deaths, I'm actually OK with all the deaths in the pre-boot Legion universe and would probably prefer they all stay dead.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
quote:
If Adventure is used properly, they can continue to tell stories about Karate Kid (and Invisible Lyle, and Chemical King, etc.) without having to resurrect the character, just by regaling us with untold tales of their adventures before his death.
Exactly.
quote: Which is why they probably won't do that...
Yep.
Posted by Candle on :
I was surprised by the Adventure tales set in the earlier years that were so lackluster and rather irritating. I don't have much hope for good 'untold' stories anymore. It just seems impossible to catch the glory of the era in our jaded times.
I agree that Val died a heroic and classical death, so I wouldn't bring him back (or Ferro for similar reasons).
Lyle and Condo, were treated badly, though, and I'd like to see them, or another version, in the retroboot.
Posted by razsolo on :
I would rather see Val stay dead as well, for all the reasons already cited. I think his story had a good ending, which isn't something you can say all that often when heroes are generally only killed for the shock value. Like Ferro Lad, Val's death had a real heroic purpose.
I wouldn't be adverse to Doctor One's idea - I'd rather see new stories with the Val and Ferro we already have rather than another pointless resurrection.
On a tangent, I do agree that Adventure has been wasted too - I think it's a perfect opportunity to examine things we've never really seen, and it's being wasted. We've already seen the founders' relationship with one another examined a thousand times....how about some adventures of the Legion when it was just them, Tinya and Lu? Maybe something that shows how Tinya, Lu and Imra interacted with one another before they were all more defined by their relationships with their partners? Some early development of the friendship between Cham and Gim? Maybe something to show what value a painfully shy Shrinking Violet offered to the Legion before she blossomed (puntastic!)?
There is a lot of potential in stories from the Legion's past, it's a shame we generally only see that touched on at all in fanfic...
Posted by future king on :
I know this is grasping at straws here but ... Ferro Lad, Invisible Kid I and Chemical King all died (yes, granted, some were lame) and stayed dead. Any of those (except Lyle's) heroic deaths would be rendered null and void if/when they returned from the dead ... thus lessening their initial shock impact of sacrifice. Val HAS come back from the dead though in "mainstream" DC via 52 and Lightning Saga. There's no shock value or debate left now of do we bring him back or not, it's already been done. He's just stuck now somewhere in writers' limbo.
I say to DC "Stop teasing us! Finish what you started and bring the guy back already!!!"
Oh and "Take that silly mask/wig and hideous costume off Queen Projectra ... enough is enough!". Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Among the five currently dead Legionnaires, my order of preference for them coming back:
Chemical King Invisible Kid Magnetic Kid Karate Kid Ferro Lad
Posted by Gorilla Nebula on :
i was fine with KK's death by Nemesis Kid, but once Johns brought him back in Lightning Saga, it was a game changer. his costume looked great, he took on Batman. he was exciting! then giffen lamely killed him off in 52, and they never explained how/why he was alive again. unfortunately for Levitz, we are owed an explanation for the resurrection as well as Duo Damsel's power-up. i don't have a clue about DD, but i believe they should just make cloning technology legit. comic writers and editors just kill and resurrect all the time anyway. just take that lazy story device out of circulation by giving us replacement clones. come back KK!!
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: Among the five currently dead Legionnaires, my order of preference for them coming back:
Chemical King Invisible Kid Magnetic Kid Karate Kid Ferro Lad
Pretty much the same. I know that Lyle has good story potential (more so than Jacques, IMO), because we've seen some good Lyle in the Reboot, in Superboy's Legion, and, to a lesser extent, in the Threeboot. Chemical King just flat out never got a chance. I don't know if he'd be awesome, but he deserves a chance, IMO.
I have no idea if Magnetic Kid is actually dead, since stuff that happened before he died (Shady hacking off her finger, for example) is no longer in continuity. But I never cared for him anyway. His character just never grew on me. If he was more distinct from his brother, perhaps using technology to make up for weaker magnetic potential than his superstar brother, that might have made him a little more distinctive (and given the impression that Rokk was something special, and that not every Braalian is Magneto-lite). He'd still have powers, but, like Wildfire or Quislet, who've traditionally not been terribly useful without a containment suit / tiny spaceship, use some gadgets to make them a bit more viable.
I'd rather see Myg returned to life, or, better, revealed to actually be the young asian dude from Brin's visit to Lythyl and not the old caucasian dude from Lo3W, than see Val brought back.
And, somewhere between those choices, a new Karate Kid, who's a girl. ('Karate Kid' being one of those non-gender-specific superhero names, like 'Green Lantern' or 'Flash' that could apply equally to a boy or a girl.) A non-human girl could be even more amusing, such as a Thanagarian or a Warlord of Okaara, who has come to earth to master it's many forms of martial arts, as she's already mastered those of her home world / system (and various other planets).
Posted by Superboy-Supergirl on :
i personally would love all of the dead legionnaires be brought back to life...why...cause i would love my legion to be an acutal ...LEGION..and i don't mind if it "cheapens' death...its a comic...not like we're getting people back from the dead in our own lives...i can take it in a comic book as long as the story is done well.
Posted by Jerry on :
I am not opposed to either death or resurrection being presented in comic books. Both, however, have been so overused by DC in the last couple of decades that they have lost most of their dramatic effect.
Bringing back Val, or any other Legionnaire who died pre crisis, would only serve to distance this version of the team from supposed "return to the original" that it was initially solicited as. Those characters deaths were part of that original narrative. Bringing any of them back would cheapen their deaths, in my opinion.
Besides, that Val was ineptly brought back already for Countdown. Were we ever given an explanation in print? I've seen explanations online that he and Una were removed from the time stream prior to their deaths. That explanation makes no sense, as we graphically saw his body after Nemesis Kid killed him. His and Lu's follow up deaths, in the pages of Countdown, were among the lamest moments in Legion history. Yes, that mess did cheapen the drama of the original deaths. I would rather not revisit the topic.
Posted by jimgallagher on :
I agree with Jerry 100%. You tell 'em, Jerry!
Posted by Candle on :
I, personally, don't feel that resurrection itself, cheapens death. My God is resurrected, after all, and it not only doesn't cheapen His death, but it gives hope to the rest of us.
The recent Medal of Honor winner who died saving members of his unit in Afganistan, is another example. If he were resurrected, it wouldn't cheapen his sacrefice one bit.
The problem, which has been stated here, is if the resurrection comes with little or no or bad explaination. Or in DC's case, the death's were just for shock value, poorly writen and way over used, like the resurrections.
I really enjoyed Val in the Lightning Saga and his intentional heroism, probably knowing that he was going to die again and choosing to do what was needed anyway.
I miss that Val, at this moment. I don't know if I'd like him returned or not. But, I DO feel that Jeckie would like him back.
Posted by cleome on :
I'm fine with flashbacks, but I don't need to see Lyle come back, as that would pretty much guarantee Jacques being used as canon fodder in short order. DC's practically making a cottage industry of that kind of thing lately, and it ticks me off. Especially since Jacques is "my" IK, and I think they've already slaughtered enough POC to make room for "real" (ie-- White) heroes to come back. Enough already. Posted by future king on :
All great points there Cleome. I too would miss Jacques if they brought the original IK back. I liked Jacques from the minute he joined the Legion. The original Karate Kid was half oriental. Some artists chose to show more of that side of his heritage when drawing him (ie: James Sherman). Bringing him back would also add to the POC in the Legion ratio in a small way too.
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