I picked up the Comics Buyers Guide with the Legion. Among the articles is a Levitz interview.
"Only the pre-1990 series and the first two Johns stories--and whatever still-unwritten bits happened in between--will 'count'.
...
"But what about 'Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds'? That was a third Johns-written story with the 'original' Legion; it guest-starred the 'Zero Hour' Legion and the 'Threeboot' Legion. Many important things happened there that would greatly affect any Legion story, such as the death of Legion founder and financier R.J. Brande. Are those things not part of the new Legion continuity?
"'Not necessarily', Levitz said. 'Or at least they may never be mentioned again. Only time will tell.'"
I've yet to see this bombshell mentioned either on this board ot the DC board. (Although in the specific case of Brande's death we do know that that still counts, since Adventure #11 is about his will.) (Edit: The Brande's will story was not written by Levitz.)
[ July 12, 2010, 08:16 AM: Message edited by: Nightcrawler ]
Posted by MLLASH on :
Whoa. That *IS* a pretty big bomb to drop there. Interesting.
Posted by cleome on :
That's good news for me, at least. Never read it. Probably never will.
Posted by thinbalion on :
Well maybe we can pretend Rond never died then...
Posted by SharkLad on :
odd, given Gates' appearance last issue ... the Sodom Yat stuff too ...
Posted by lil'rhino on :
quote:Originally posted by thinbalion: Well maybe we can pretend Rond never died then...
This would make me very happy!
Posted by Ken Arromdee on :
Oh, and my mistake. The Brande's will story was not written by Levitz, so this doesn't mean that he counts Brande as being dead. The use of Gates and Sodam Yat, however, do seem to be L3W elements that Levitz is using.
Posted by lil'rhino on :
Perhaps he's only using elements of the story he finds useful or feels he can develop further.
Posted by stuorstew on :
This good news about Legion of Three Worlds no longer being in continuity possibly. However it does make the series even more pointless then it was already.
However I do think Brande is still dead because if he is not the solicit for next weeks Adventure is really, really wrong.
quote:ADVENTURE COMICS returns to its historical numbering with this issue just in time for Paul Levitz to retell the Legion's origins! Everything begins on a somber note reflecting on the past with "The Last Will and Testament of R.J. Brande"!
[ July 10, 2010, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: stuorstew ]
Posted by stuorstew on :
This also means Kinetic may no longer be dead which is good news indeed.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
quote:Originally posted by lil'rhino: Perhaps he's only using elements of the story he finds useful or feels he can develop further.
Since that seems to be his approach even to the pre-1990 stuff, it wouldn't surprise me!
Posted by lil'rhino on :
quote:Originally posted by stuorstew: This also means Kinetic may no longer be dead which is good news indeed.
I have the feeling she's gonna "pop out" of the Black Witch along with Mordru one of these days.
Posted by stuorstew on :
I agree and it cannot happen soon enough for me
When she does if they can find a way to turn her back in to the cat girl she was for awhile that would be great too.
Posted by Mattropolis on :
As long as I get my Zoe back I am happy. She was the best part of the reboot, IMO.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I saw this in CBG too but didn't find it all that exciting. I think that's going to be Paul's general approach to anything continuity-mess related from Crisis to now: Paul will cherry pick all the best stuff that works for him.
We'll just have to keep that other thread going as each issue comes out and we can confirm what's what!
Posted by Jerry on :
Those comments just make me angry. I wasn't thrilled with Legion of Three Worlds. But why in the heck did I bother to buy it if doesn't count? At a friggen' $3.99 per issue, no less.
Instead of telling us what isn't in continuity anymore, why doesn't someone just tell us what is? Even better, why don't they bother to tell us before we pay for the books. Coy answers stopped being cute a long time ago. I'm not a total continuity cop and have no desire to be. I am, however, tired of paying for Legion stories that don't seem to matter to anyone at DC.
[ July 16, 2010, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: Jerry ]
Posted by future king on :
So, it might not count as canon hey? Really??
So.......... how the heck did Duo Damsel become Duplicate Damsel then? And how did XS come to join this current classic Legion? And Gates ...? Come on.
I gotta tell ya, Paul slipped again and forgot to add that 5-parter to that list of canon. He will probably publish an addendum to correct this in the near future.
Posted by Red Arrow on :
I'm disappointed for a petty reason. At the end of the Lo3W a DC Message Board thread was in Superboy-Prime's room, which confirms two things. 1) Johns reads the message boards. 2) Superboy-Prime represents the "fans" who hate everything that is currently in comics and love anything in the past.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I think the main thing that Paul will most likely ignore is the whole "Superboy-Prime = Time Trapper" revelation, thus freeing him to use the Time Trapper if he wants.
Posted by Kent on :
I applaud Paul Levitz for picking and choosing. it's his job to tell good stories, not be a continuity nitpick.
clearly a lot of L3W did happen - Mysa as Black Witch, dead RJ, Sodam Yat, etc. He's taking what works and leaving the rest.
If people are buying comics only to worry about how they all fit together into a seamless 'grand narrative,' you're doing it for the wrong reason. DC irrevocably derailed itself from that path in 1985. If your buying habits are contingent upon continuity for continuity's sake, then you'll never be satisfied - something might always come along and undue your story. I can still enjoy my favorite pre-crisis stories, pre-zero-hour stories or pre-Infinite Crisis stories regardless of how they fit (or don't).
yes, it's fun when stories draw upon past ones, but it should be a strength, not a weakness, and worrying about if Captain X's fart 30 issues ago still 'counts.'
Posted by Kent on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: I think the main thing that Paul will most likely ignore is the whole "Superboy-Prime = Time Trapper" revelation, thus freeing him to use the Time Trapper if he wants.
that is probably it.
Posted by Jerry on :
I have no objection to picking and choosing, but there are limits. To me, ignoring the stories that were solicited to set up your run is beyond those limits. These stories were just printed. I'm not asking Paul to address 50 years of continuity glitches. I'm asking him to try to be consistent with stories printed in the last two or three years - stories that were supposed to be part of this continuity. For example, the story line that was just printed, that tied into Adventure Comics, hinted at a relationship between Brainiac 5 and Supergirl. More about that relationship is supposed to be printed in the upcoming Supergirl Annual. If we assume that the story that set the annual up is now out of continuity, what does that say about the annual? Will it be out of continuity too?
There were some things sacrificed to make way for the current run. One of the arguments for introducing this new version was that it might be able to bring in readers of other books, because it fits more centrally into the DC universe. It's hard for me to see that happening if these comics don't really tie into the recent histories of those series.
[ July 11, 2010, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: Jerry ]
Posted by Blacula on :
As far as I'm concerned, Legion of Three Worlds did happen until I see something in the book that directly contradicts it.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by Blacula: As far as I'm concerned, Legion of Three Worlds did happen until I see something in the book that directly contradicts it.
I'm considering it to have happened until something in the books says it didn't.
The Time Trapper is such a mutable concept that Levitz can make it his own again without having to retcon anything that's already taken place.
Posted by Mattropolis on :
I agree about the Trapper. I think we have only been shown what the Trapper wants us to see.
Posted by lil'rhino on :
quote:Originally posted by Blacula: As far as I'm concerned, Legion of Three Worlds did happen until I see something in the book that directly contradicts it.
Plus, he doesn't give a concrete "no", just a "not necessarily".
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I oppose picking and choosing while at the same time marketing a series on the nostalgia factor of "OMG! It's the original team that I grew up with! All those stories from my childhood are back in continuity!"
Personally, I would preferred they just said, "Hey, we've fucked up the Legion pretty badly these past twenty years. Sorry. We're just going to give the title to Paul Levitz, let him do an "All-Star Legion" with the continuity being whatever the hell he wants, and, uh, hope you guys like it."
Posted by MLLASH on :
Lu is still Dou Damsel (if that even) and she and Chuck never rejoined the LSH.
Tenzil did not rejoin the LSH.
*sigh* What a disappointing mess.... Well, I'll remain verrrrrry cautiously optimistic still.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Well, he kept Tyroc, so maybe there's hope for others.
Posted by MLLASH on :
Well, I do have to admit I admire Levitz for FINALLY making metaphorical lemonade out of Tyroc's metaphorical lemons, but.... everyone HATES Lu, Chuck and Tenzil! Posted by Mattropolis on :
I only hate one of them...
Posted by cleome on :
[snip]
quote:Originally posted by MLLASH: ...everyone HATES Lu, Chuck and Tenzil!
We do?
News to me.
Posted by Jerry on :
So, Paul says only the first two Johns stories will count. That means Lightning Saga and Action, right? What about Secret Origins? It isn't even finished yet? It doesn't count? The Adventure back up series doesn't count? But, the new series picks up the Mekt twin subplot form that series? So he's picking up subplots and characters from stories that don't "count"? I'm confused.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
quote: Robert Kane, Marion, Iowa - "I like Matter-Eater Lad better than any other Legionnaire. I know he has a relatively minor super-power, which he can't use in a fight (unless he's going to chew the guy's arm off), so he has to rely on a weapon. I'd like to see him featured more prominently in your stories."
I bet Robert Kane of Marion, IA, is pretty upset!
Posted by MLLASH on :
I have to admit, this news has unnerved me. I'm not usually so slavish to continuity, but C'MON!!!
I agree with EDE... just ADMIT you Effed the LSH up for the past 20-odd years and have decided to let Levitz do what he wants.
Posted by MLLASH on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester:
quote: Robert Kane, Marion, Iowa - "I like Matter-Eater Lad better than any other Legionnaire. I know he has a relatively minor super-power, which he can't use in a fight (unless he's going to chew the guy's arm off), so he has to rely on a weapon. I'd like to see him featured more prominently in your stories."
I bet Robert Kane of Marion, IA, is pretty upset!
In case anyone didn't already know: EDE is metaphorically awesome!! Posted by Ken Arromdee on :
quote:Originally posted by Jerry: So, Paul says only the first two Johns stories will count. That means Lightning Saga and Action, right? What about Secret Origins? It isn't even finished yet? It doesn't count? The Adventure back up series doesn't count? But, the new series picks up the Mekt twin subplot form that series? So he's picking up subplots and characters from stories that don't "count"? I'm confused.
In context he seems to be talking about whole runs. So I think what he's saying is that out of the stories central to the modern Legion, only two out of three count. I don't think he's saying that Adventure Comics and Supergirl don't count, even though his words do literally read that way.
And he's obviously still using large chunks of Legion of Three Worlds. For all we know the interview was done long ago and he's changed his mind.
Alternatively, when he said they may never be mentioned again he's serious. It used to be that embarrassing story moments were dealt with by never mentioning them again rather than erasing history. I can certainly think of things in Legion of Three Worlds that I would want never mentioned again. The whole idea of using Superboy-Prime to attack the fans is one I'd rather see forgotten (and besides, it doesn't make sense for several reasons, including comic book time--now that it's 2010, the stories showing him doing bad things would have to have been published before he came over and did them.)
[ July 10, 2010, 11:25 PM: Message edited by: Ken Arromdee ]
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by Jerry: So, Paul says only the first two Johns stories will count. That means Lightning Saga and Action, right?
Not necessarily. It could mean the playing out of plotlines that stretched from Justice League to War of the Supermen.
Again, I'm not worried about any of this. Levitz's version will unfold as it will; likely from the starting point of Johns' bible.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I always assumed that the "chronicler's error" comment in #1 referred as much to recent stories as to anything else. I guess the odd part of this is singling out LO3W as being treated any differently from anything else.
Posted by Set on :
Given all the temporal shenanigans that were going on in that last issue of Lo3W, Paul's got amazing freedom to use that as justification for something that occured either earlier in that story, or in the Action/Lightning Saga, to be 'retconned' into a more palatable shape for whatever plans he's got under the hood.
Posted by Lone Wolf Legionnaire on :
Does anybody have the issue # of Comics Buyer's Guide with the Levitz interview.
Posted by Chemical King on :
Yes I do have the printed version here - haven't read it yet, though. What do you want to know?
Posted by future king on :
quote:Originally posted by cleome: [snip]
quote:Originally posted by MLLASH: ...everyone HATES Lu, Chuck and Tenzil!
We do?
News to me.
Me too.... I like all three of them actually. Always have.
Posted by Lone Wolf Legionnaire on :
quote:Originally posted by Chemical King: Yes I do have the printed version here - haven't read it yet, though. What do you want to know?
I was thinking about buying the issue,but I couldn't find it without a #, and is the Legion on the cover.
Posted by Ken Arromdee on :
It does have a Legion cover by the current Legion artist. The number is #1668.
Posted by Dev Em on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: Personally, I would preferred they just said, "Hey, we've fucked up the Legion pretty badly these past twenty years. Sorry. We're just going to give the title to Paul Levitz, let him do an "All-Star Legion" with the continuity being whatever the hell he wants, and, uh, hope you guys like it."
I would love to have seen that solicit!
Posted by Dev Em on :
<Snip>
quote:Originally posted by Ken Arromdee: "'Not necessarily', Levitz said. 'Or at least they may never be mentioned again. Only time will tell.'"
My gut check on this is that he just will never mention The S-Prime/Trapper thing again. Not dwell on the fact that there are two other Legions out there...possibly never mention them again in continuity (at least while he's writing)).
Again just my feeling on this. I think it's obvious that the overall arc of the story happened...he's just not feeling salvish to every detail.
Posted by Lone Wolf Legionnaire on :
I found a picture of CBG #1668.
I really should get a subsciption to this mag, as my CBS does not carry it, and $24.95 is a very good price.
[ July 11, 2010, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: Lone Wolf Legionnaire ]
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
I agree with Dev.
[edit...looks like you beat me to it.]
[ July 11, 2010, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: Nightcrawler ]
Posted by Power Boy on :
that cover is killer, everybody looks awesome and they're all jumping of the page to kick my nass!!!
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
Should have been the cover to LSH#1.
Posted by future king on :
I totally agree with you Nightcrawler! That would have been the utimate cover for #1.
Oh well, looks like I have to hunt this book down and buy a copy ... you know, just to complete my collection.
Posted by Lone Wolf Legionnaire on :
I agree with you also Gary.
The Legion has been getting some love from CBG, heres the cover they had during L3W,
Whens the last time the Legion got a Wizard cover if ever?
Posted by cleome on :
[thinks of saying something about Lightning Lad's... unfortunate placement]
[thinks better of it]
No matter what the angle, boob windows are effing stupid.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I have the issue of CBG and will gladly trade it to anyone for Adventure #247!
I also agree with Dev. This is more of the same...nothing surprsing here. I just want Paul to tell his Legion story. It will make sense later.
Posted by Set on :
The top picture, Garth looks kinda like Liefield drew him! Same hair that Rob put on everyone, same gaping mouth as they shout at the camera...
Chameleon Girl looks good, though. I actually like her with hair in that picture, which I never thought I'd say. Sun Boy's posture is neat, too.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Yeah, the bizarre "visit-to-the-dentist" look on Garth, Jo, and Dirk in the top picture is kind of disturbing.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: Yeah, the bizarre "visit-to-the-dentist" look on Garth, Jo, and Dirk in the top picture is kind of disturbing.
They look like Dragonball Z characters, frankly.
I still prefer it to the other one, in which they all look bloated.
Posted by cleome on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: Yeah, the bizarre "visit-to-the-dentist" look on Garth, Jo, and Dirk in the top picture is kind of disturbing.
Hey, if you've got the best that 31st Century dentistry has to offer, why not flaunt it?
Posted by future king on :
Oh man ... now I have to get my hands on BOTH of the CBG issues! The completist in me screams for justice!!! Posted by Superboy-Supergirl on :
future king also get the CBG after this one
...its a 2 parter
Posted by future king on :
Thank you! Do you know if the second part is the same cover? Does anyone have a copy of that??? Posted by duck458 on :
quote:Originally posted by cleome: [thinks of saying something about Lightning Lad's... unfortunate placement]
[thinks better of it]
No matter what the angle, boob windows are effing stupid.
If PG got rid of the bottom two windows I think her costume would look a lot better. But poor Dawny looks like she inhereted Pamela Anderson's chest, and unfortunately is very proud about it.
Posted by Superboy-Supergirl on :
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