posted
Okay, I can understand Gary Frank wanting to update some of the Legion uniforms, but I think he should have left most of them along. I mean, does anyone here really think his version of Timber Wolf is superior to the classic Cockrum design? And what about Shadow Lass?! Cockrum's design was sexy, sure, but not slutty. Shrinking Violet and Colossal Boy just look boring compared to the 70s and/or 80s versions. And Ultra Boy's classic costume didn't need an update at all -- certainly shouldn't have lost the sleeves (Franks signature addition to most of the male Legion costumes). Saturn Girl looks too butch and Lightning Lad looks too feminine.
Of all the updates, the only ones that didn't bother me were those on Polar Boy, Blok, Dawnstar and Phantom Girl (though the Cockrum, and Kitson costumes were all superior to her new one -- even the Phase costume by Giffen was better).
Well, at least he didn't change Star Boy's or Sun Boy's costumes.
Boo on DC editorial for not reigning Frank in. I've actually been a fan of his for quite some time, but these new Legion designs were simply not needed -- or shouldn't have been changed as drastically as they were.
Sorry if this reads as a post by Superboy-Prime -- but sometimes the guy knows what he's talking about.
If they do decide to go back to the old costumes -- they should probably do it gradually to avoid confusion (unlike the way Frank introduced all-new uniforms in Action Comics). Or maybe we just have to wait until Legion gets a series of its own and a new artist can come up with better designs.
It's just a shame that they bring back the classic Legion and dress in these drab/ugly rags.
posted
My biggest problems with them were the following -
A.) Re-introducing the classic version of the Legion should have featured their classic uniforms or at least the uniforms for the time at which they diverted from the previous established continuity. It's confusing enough for long-time fans. I'm sure most casual readers that read both Lightning Saga and the Action issues/L3W were scratching their heads as to why they weren't the same characters/costumes.
B.) It prevented George from drawing the iconic versions of the Legion in L3W. In fact, if it weren't for the costume changes, I think Johns could have had Lightning Saga take place during L3W. That would have made everything, especially Star Boy's (I hate calling him ...Man) sequences and role, more sensible and logical.
It was a lost opportunity.
In the past (prior to the boots), no one (not even Cockrum - his was gradual) made wholesale changes to virtually every character's costume at the exact same time. There was and still is no reason behind it.
From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Jul 2003
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Silver Age Lad
Part-time member living in another century
posted
As well as the artistic and reader confusion issues, there is also a question of logic. The Legion were fragmented, outlawed and fighting for their existance. Brainy couldn't take time for a haircut but virtually every Legionnaire took time out to design/create a new costume. Not really believable is it?
From: Ancient Kingdom of Northumbria, UK | Registered: Aug 2007
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From: Boston | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Excellent points all around (except maybe Pov's). The new costumes only destabilize the Legion's already precarious position. DC needs to make the Legion as recognizable as possible to firm up their ambiguous status in the DCU. Especially since they went to all the trouble of reconnecting their ties to Superboy/man, giving them all a whole new look is counterproductive.
I especially hate Wildfire's, Lightning Lad's, and Shrinking Violet's. I hate all the bare arms in general though.
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From: Champaign, IL | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I don't mind most of the costume changes, although I almost weep to see Shadow Lass in such a Fredericks of Hollywood suit.
The changes weren't necessary, but it seems every artist wants to put his/her own stamp on the team. You wonder if there would be any team logic to why they changed, though - fashion? some technological improvements? protest against their treatment by Earth authorities?
posted
I'm not big on 'iconic' and I don't think any of the costumes, besides Violet's, and maybe Drake's, are different enough from the 'originals' to be confusing to anyone.
That said, I don't feel that any of the new costumes are worth the change.
Long ago, K. Haven Metzger designed Imra's new look early on and Cockrum kept it.
In his FIRST story, Superboy 184, he changed Cham, Violet, ML and Lu. The next issue I have (Archives), Superboy 188, he changed Tinya and Gim (and created Drake's.)
In Superboy 197, I can't believe how many issues are missing from the Archives!!!!!!!!
You're right, JG, the new costumes were introduced over time, but I assume, the included issues were all the ones drawn by Cockrum, so he changed costumes in each of his issues.
Anyway, in 197, he changed Timbor Wolf and Lightning Lad. In 198, PP and Jan got new costumes (Brainy got a turtleneck, too, I think.)
Dreamy and Thom got new looks in 199.
We saw Ayla's new costume at the wedding in 200 (Cockrum didn't design hers, a now famous fan did, but I can't remember her name) and Shady's, eho was not at the wedding.
Drake, an original creation costume of Cockrum's, appeared again in 201, as did Drura, Pete and Molecular Master ~ all fantastic costumes.
And that's it for Dave's changes. Grell made some too, but I won't go into those.
Supergirl's outfits have changed many times over the years without confusing fans. Tasmia's has too, and maintained her identity.
Costumes can change and for the better, imo, these just aren't better.
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From: Salem, Oregon USA | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Well, just to keep the facts straight, I believe Dave Cockrum did the artwork on the Legion stories in Superboy issues 184, 188, 190, 191, 193, 195, and 197-202.
He didn't change any costumes until #193: Duo Damsel, Karate Kid, Shrinking Violet, and Chameleon Boy. Matter Eater Lad was shown in his old costume, but it was mistakenly colored red instead of green. Duo Damsel's was based on a fan's design (Nick Pascale), but Cockrum changed the boots and collar.
He changed Phantom Girl and Colossal Boy's and introduced ERG-1 in #195. He also changed the collar and deepened the color on Chemical King's.
I agree with the rest of your rundown.
Supergirl's costume may have changed many times, but there aren't 25 of her (although there are more than there used to be ). Also, she's always kept the same basic red/yellow/blue color scheme, emblem, and cape. She's also a much more famous and recognizable comic character than the average Legionnaire.
And I agree most of these costumes are not improvements. Shady's is far too skimpy to be practical and a lot of the other ones are just ugly imho. Colossal Boy's has too many straps, buckles, layers, etc. Who wants to draw all that minute detail?
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From: Champaign, IL | Registered: Jul 2003
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cleome46
or you can do the confusion 'til your head falls off
posted
My favorite thing about new artists is seeing what they do to the costumes, truthfully.
My favorite overall look was the unified effect that I've seen from the Moy era, however.
If I never see another Spears-style midriff, thong or bikini, it'll be too soon.
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From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008
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Mostly, I do not even notice the costume changes until I get on-line and readers comment on them. Just not something I'm sensitive to I guess. Face structure is something I'm more likely to notice.
As posters on other threads have opined, artists should be able to have some fun with the characters and I'd imagine just like the artistic folk here, those artists like to play "dress-up" with the characters. A happy artist is a good artist.
Honestly, I'd rather let the artists play. Then again, I already fessed up I'd not likely notice.
From: East Toledo | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I don't care for the sleeveless thing that is going on on the newest redesigns. I was hoping that George would redesign them all at the end of LO3W.
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From: Morganfield, KY | Registered: Jul 2003
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). Also, she's always kept the same basic red/yellow/blue color scheme, emblem, and cape. She's also a much more famous and recognizable comic character than the average Legionnaire. ![[shrug]](graemlins/shrug.gif)
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