This, in my opinion, is not only one of the best issues of Starman, but possibly the best-written story taking place in the 30th Century of the reboot era.
Also, one of the best Tasmia portrayals of any boot: regal and fierce, with a softer side she keeps well hidden. The panel where she hugs Jack and says, "Thom, if you tell any of the Legionnaires I was ever this nice to someone, I swear I'll kill you!" is one of my favorite panels of all time.
If the reboot LSH itself had been this well-written, it would never have needed DnA to come in and grittify the Legion, and it would never have been cancelled.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
The same could be said for Justice League of America.
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
Ironic, given who wrote this story, no?
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
Yyyyyyyyyyyyyep.
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
Wow. I'm surprised to see this thread plummeting towards page 2.
I know Legion World has some hardcore Tasmia fans, some hardcore Thom fans, some hardcore Starman fans, and some hardcore fans of all three.
Where are you?
Posted by MLLASH on :
It's been years since I read the issue; I dropped STARMAN not longer after this issue and sold off all my run, so I don't feel educated enough to discuss the issue. Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
Well, if it's any consolation, the Grand Guignol arc which follws the (wonderful IMO) Stars My Destination arc is a near-unreadable mess, although the last few remaining issues are good.
Was Tasmia ever as cool in the reboot as she was in this issue?
Posted by MLLASH on :
IIRC, it was during "Grand Guignol" that I brought the axe down on STARMAN.
Oh yes, Tas was VERY COOL, especially during Legion Lost.
She handily whips the asses of both Monstress and Ultra Boy in one scene. And Coipel's 1940's hairstyle for her.... BE. YOND. FAB.
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
Will have to check out Legion Lost. Thanks, Lash.
Posted by Kent on :
quote:Originally posted by Fanfic Lass: Well, if it's any consolation, the Grand Guignol arc which follws the (wonderful IMO) Stars My Destination arc is a near-unreadable mess, although the last few remaining issues are good.
It reads better in TPB format, but certainly wasn't up to the series' usual snuff.
quote:Originally posted by Fanfic Lass: Was Tasmia ever as cool in the reboot as she was in this issue?
generally, yes. Although she rarely had center stage, except in L-Lost and the Lightle issue (24?).
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
Ah, yes, the Lightle issue! Thanks for reminding me about that, Kent. Will add it to my list of back issues to search for this week.
Kent, what did you think of Stars My Destination overall? I think even though it's not the "purest" Starman arc, it's got a lot of wonderful stuff in it.
Posted by Kent on :
I liked a lot of it. I loved the Ditko Starman, so it was neat to see so much of that revisited - without really undoing his pointless death in COIE. It was also neat to see Tigorr back in action. While I didn't like seeing Gavyn's best-bud Jeddah be a villain, it was handled well, and I came to accept it.
if memory serves, the first story in this volume was the one with the Space Ranger and others telling variations on the Starman story as they'd heard it? I loved that! especially the one where they're talking like pirates.
Posted by Kent on :
There was also an issue of the Legends of the Legion mini that spotlighted Tasmia, but I don't remember how well that one was done.
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
I might the Legends of the Legion issue a go. I'm sure I can find it super-cheap. Thanks, Kent.
My favorite moments from Stars My Destination, besides the issue that inspired this thread, were the Jor-El and Adam Strange issues.
Posted by Kent on :
they were great. I thought those were from the prior TPB, tho, so I didn't mention them.
so I gather you were referring to the entire space run, then?
my least favorite was the visit to Swamp Thing's blue world. Alan Moore did that better, and in the context of the whole series, it was one Solomon Grundy appearance too many for me.
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
Yes, the entire space run.
quote:Originally posted by Kent: my least favorite was the visit to Swamp Thing's blue world. Alan Moore did that better, and in the context of the whole series, it was one Solomon Grundy appearance too many for me.
Wow. That is amazing. The blue world is my least favorite segment, too.
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
I also have to say that I really liked Thom in this issue, too. I've never been a fan of the preboot Thom because he broke Nura's heart.
Posted by Kent on :
Nura was hardly an innocent, as I recall.
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
The only Starman story I liked reading so far, I mean REALLY liked, is the Legends of the Dead Earth annual with the Prairie Witch.
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
quote:Originally posted by Kent: Nura was hardly an innocent, as I recall.
Oh, I know. But Thom could have handled it better than just giving her the cold shoulder and moving back to Xanthu.
Posted by Dev Em on :
Yeah, and he did handle it better for years. She just wouldn't grow up until it was too late for them.
Actually a rather real life couple with these two. Things should have worked out, but didn't...things happen sometimes that we can't, or in Dreamy's case, choose not to control. Could Thom have taken the high road...yeah, but he finally just had enough of her games.
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
What you say is true, Dev. I just find it very easy to turn a blind eye to Nura's faults. She seemed to me like deep down, underneath all the frivolity, she was very lonely and needy. Could she have taken responsibility for her behavior? Sure, but then she wouldn't be Nura.
Posted by Mattropolis on :
As much as I love Nura, she did take Thom for granted one time too many. I know that she loved him, but I think deep down she didn't know how to be with him.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I thought this was a great story! It's been awhile since I've read it but I remember loving it at the time. It was a great chance to see Star Boy & Umbra removed from the rest of the Legion and then have connections to Starman, Mikaal and the Shade.
I loved the space-arc in Starman in a big way. Remember just loving it at the time and thought it just kept getting stronger as it went. The Moore blue planet was 'okay'; the Jor-El stuff was better and then things got really good after that.
I also really liked the story in the back of Space-Cabbie's cab with Space Ranger, Starfire, Ultraa, etc.
This arc made me a fan of Prince Gavyn as well.
As for preboot Thom, I've always blamed Nura for their break-up. She had it coming, for taking him for granted far too often. Still, I love Nura and actually like her more than Thom--she's a favorite. But you can't be that needed and self-centered and not suffer the consequences. Just another reason why she was such a strong, complex character.
Posted by Mattropolis on :
As hard as we try and as much as we want them to, some relationships just don't work out.
I've been there...
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Sometimes you just gots to call it quits, move home, and become a planetary champion!
Posted by Mattropolis on :
There are worse fates...
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I thought this was a great story! It's been awhile since I've read it but I remember loving it at the time. It was a great chance to see Star Boy & Umbra removed from the rest of the Legion and then have connections to Starman, Mikaal and the Shade.
I loved the space-arc in Starman in a big way. Remember just loving it at the time and thought it just kept getting stronger as it went. The Moore blue planet was 'okay'; the Jor-El stuff was better and then things got really good after that.
I also really liked the story in the back of Space-Cabbie's cab with Space Ranger, Starfire, Ultraa, etc.
This arc made me a fan of Prince Gavyn as well.
The quality of the Jor-El issue makes the mediocrity of Robinson's work on Superman-proper all the more disappointing. Posted by Matt Kramer on :
I'm a huge fan of Starman and really echo a lot of what people are saying! In the series, I think that the space arc was the weakest segment, but of course, there was a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes that probably had a serious affect on the storytelling, like Tony Harris' departure and then his little tiff with James, Archie Goodwin's death and James not wanting to continue with the book, and then Goyer coming on as a co-plotter. I think that the book really ramps back up after the space stuff ends.
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
Wow.
First of all, Matt, thanks for re-activating this topic and for sharing the behind-the-scenes doings. Even though I have all the floppies, I've been borrowing the Starman Omnibus volumes from the library just to read Robinson's "director's commentaries." I'm sure he'll elaborate on what you just revealed when we reach Omnibus Volume Five.
I think you may enjoy my JLA fanfics, as Mikaal figures heavily in them, and the Shade appears in one of them, and NOT as a villain. You can read them at the threads that I've provided links for in my signature.
I think you and I could have some extremely interesting Starman discussions, because we seem to see the book in completely different ways. And that's GOOD! A work of Starman's ambition and scope SHOULD inspire a variety of interpretations and a spirited discussion!
There's not yet a proper Starman thread in the Dr. Gymll's forum. Would you like to be the one to start it?
Posted by Dev Em on :
Starman is one of my favorite comics of all time. I loved evry issue. There were some clunkers, but overall it was a great bit of storytelling.
I think James had a pretty clear vision of who Jack was and that really helped the book. This book was a perfect successor to his Firearm series from the Ultraverse. A book that deserves a look if any does from that "Universe."
I've met James (and Tony Harris - bought a page from him that I love) several times throughout the run of the series at various conventions. A very nice guy and really cool to talk to. I personally believe that there is tremendous editorial interferance with his JLA work. (If McDuffie is to be even remotely believed, there is hige interferance from on high)
I give him the benifit of the doubt for the time being.
Back to Starman though...this was, like MK above, my least favorite of the stories featured in the series. Not to say that it did not have it's very good moments, and unfortunate retconned out of history moments as well.
Posted by Kent on :
that's why I don't worry much about continuity; I only worry about good stories. If they fit together into a larger mosaic, nifty. If they don't, so what?
the only continuity I expect is internal continuity during any single given writer's run.
Posted by Dev Em on :
I could not agree more in all reality Kent. A good story is a good story...Series like Starman and Sandman Mystery Theatre should be enjoyed for the stories they told...not whether they fit in with where the current Editor at large thinks they should or not.
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
Well said, guys.
Re: the Ultraverse, I think the first dozen or so issues of Mantra were also excellent.
Posted by Dev Em on :
The initial run of a lot of those titles were good. They kind of lost direction along the way, and totally got destroyed after Marvel bought them. The Perez Ultraforce with The Black Knight being one of the few I liked from that period.
[ June 07, 2010, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: Dev Em ]
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
Indeed. Marvel just could not put a foot right in the second half of the 90s IMO.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Dev, I'm totally with you on Firearm. I thought it was the best of the Ultraverse titles and totally worthy owning.
I kind of dug a lot of Ultraverse titles in the 90's. Nightman and the Strangers were cool Englehardt titles.
Getting back on topic, Starman is one of my all-time favorite series too. I reread the first 30 issues about five years ago and they hold up extremely well. I think the post-Archie stories are also still very good as well. Goyer coming on helped get things on track and the series ended very nicely.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
Starman may well be the book that kept me in comics.
I almost bailed on the hobby entirely after Zero Hour, figuring that the industry was moving in a direction that wasn't aimed at or interesting to a reader like me. Being a Golden Age fan, I decided to give this new Starman a try and got hooked.
Anyway, I really liked #50. I liked the Danny Blaine idea, even if I knew that editorial winds could shift and we'd never see it. As for other Legion-related stuff, I liked the DC One Million Starman issue where the future Starman points out that Lyle Norg will become more famous as a scientist than a superhero. Not that that happened either.
Posted by Kent on :
Starman was the 1st series I followed exclusively in trades. Which got frustrating given some of the delayed releases. At the time it began, I was only reading superhero comics off the rack at the CBS I worked at. On;y with DnA did I return to buying any superhero issues.
I later picked up a back issue copy of Starman #50 to add to my Legion collection.
Posted by Fanfic Lass on :
OM, thanks for reminding me of the DC One Million Starman. I knew I was still missing something.
Posted by Power Boy on :
I've just discovered the jack knight starman thanks to the 50 percent off shelf at the CBS.
So I haven been able to read them in order ... Just whatever's available and they aren't numbered for convenience, I'm currently on the grand guignol which I'm liking except I'm not happy about opal being in flames and the evil shades accent is virtually incomprehensible .... I also think this story arc seems very rushed as it attempts to unite maybe the entire series' stories.
Sorry got distracted by the grand guignol ... But what I wanted to say is that even out of order I'm loving this series like I've loved no other comic for quite some time.
I love the 90s blade runner American gothic style art deco of art that runs through the series. Also the space adventures were really fun and seemed fresh and exciting even to a guy whose been reading comics for 30 years.
I love jack knight. He's complex and conflicted but he's still a good guy who tries his best and tries to be better.
Nash scares me ... She's creepy and psycho ... Like an ex girlfriend ... Except this one kills people.
This is the best I've ever seen Ted knight written and I love the realistic interaction between father and son. They like each other but they also really annoy each other.
The series is real and compelling without being melodramatic and I still think the good guys are 'good' and not just the assholes the book's named after.
It's been a while since I have actually wanted to be a character. Jack knights that cool.
More later gotta run get a pizza
Posted by Power Boy on :
This book has made me a huge fan of mikaal and the shade! I never was before.
I even love this version of Adam strange and jor el ! Despite their limited roles ... And I detest the villains in a way that is unhealthy since the are fictional characters!
Robinson mustve had a lot of leeway writing these characters since I assume someone like jor el would be sacred ... Especially since they gave him rocket power
Oh well I really appreciated the fact that continuity was out the window. Back to the shady and star boy issue ... The way they were interwoven into te star man history was awesome ..( I'm not sure what their biographies were before that )
And tasmia playing a role in mikaals development was cool!
I think in the grand guignol they are trying to interweave the stories in a similar way (except the whole series) but they seemed rushed ... And let me say again how frustrating Culp's accent is.
I didn't mind the blue planet but I did think this version of Solomon Grundy went from plant guy to .. Evil zombie Solomon grundy for the last story arc really quick .. I haven't read them all so maybe I'm missing something.
I can't say right now what my favorite issues might be ... I did like the cabbie issue .. And I like the Ted knight fights dr phosphorous issue ... And of course the three boot issue is fantastic. I like the Adam strange ones and how easily Adam becomes their friend. The prison planet one's seem a bit long to me.
Posted by superboymddjr on :
I have the whole collection of 81 issues....the best series ever....by ONE writer (IIRC) wow...and I am looking forward getting the Shade series soon in October. *rubbing hands*
by the way, Mikaal's first appearance in Ist Issue #12 (again IIRC) and the letter page mentioned Shadow Lass's possible connection to Mikaal and I have been waiting for that for a Long time!!!! Finally thanks to Robinson, he made the connection. *ka-chaing* Posted by Future on :
Absolutely one of my top ten favorite series ever. I was fortunate to get into the series after the fact so I could read every issue all at once. I say fortunate because waiting in between issues would have either killed me in suspense or lost me, probably. There were a few arcs where I only got the full beauty of the story because I was still processing the last issues minutes ago instead of months ago.
I do owe it all to the Starman #50 issue for drawing me into the series. It was a great tale that wove together two books perfectly for a moment and then let them go their separate ways. Plus, reboot Thom and Tasmia were two of my favorite Legionnaires for that era.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
I was disappointed that this had zero follow-up for the reboot Thom and Tasmia-- a different Thom went on to become Starman, Danny Blaine.
Even if the Starman stuff was never touched on, Thom and Umbra should've had a connection that appeared 'onscreen' after this experience. The Amazers should've shared that to a much smaller degree.
Neither were ever referenced again, unfortunately. Letting relationships like these drop is partly why that era of LSH history eventually fell by the wayside. Perhaps that pertains to comics in general, as well.
Posted by Superboy-Supergirl on :
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: I was disappointed that this had zero follow-up for the reboot Thom and Tasmia-- a different Thom went on to become Starman, Danny Blaine.
Even if the Starman stuff was never touched on, Thom and Umbra should've had a connection that appeared 'onscreen' after this experience. The Amazers should've shared that to a much smaller degree.
Neither were ever referenced again, unfortunately. Letting relationships like these drop is partly why that era of LSH history eventually fell by the wayside. Perhaps that pertains to comics in general, as well.
Be kinda glad it was dropped for the reboot thom...remember it was his destiny to die as Starman... perhaps Dreamer was dreaming of "this Thom's" funeral instead of her thom.
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
I wonder if we'll ever know what Dreamer's vision was about...
I don't remember Postboot Star Boy and Umbra interacting at all in the Legion comics anymore around that time. It would have been nice to see some of that.
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
In Legion #1, Dream Girl did say something about the possibility of changing the future that she has foreseen, so maybe that's what's happened in Thom's case.
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
I've been trying to think of instances where Dream Girl actually managed to change the future since I read that. I haven't really come up with any. I'm sure there are, though.
There are more accounts of her misinterpreting things she foresaw, which is kind of weird. (Like in her introductory issue). I guess Hazy Girl's just not as good a name.
Posted by Somebody on :
quote:Originally posted by Fanfic Lady: Also, one of the best Tasmia portrayals of any boot: regal and fierce, with a softer side she keeps well hidden. The panel where she hugs Jack and says, "Thom, if you tell any of the Legionnaires I was ever this nice to someone, I swear I'll kill you!" is one of my favorite panels of all time.
Never saw her knowing Jack's record as plausible though. UMBRA of all people, seriously?
quote:Originally posted by Invisible Brainiac: I wonder if we'll ever know what Dreamer's vision was about...
It had to be about "Danny Blaine"'s origin, surely.
quote:Originally posted by Invisible Brainiac: I don't remember Postboot Star Boy and Umbra interacting at all in the Legion comics anymore around that time. It would have been nice to see some of that.
Did they EVER interact in the Legion titles, beyond maybe Tasmia rolling her eyes at Thom'n'Nura?
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