... in stores now, published by DK, for $40 a pop.
There're several nice entries for Legion-related characters, all accompanied by art... most of which looks familiar.
Though other DCU entries provide some 'spoilers' (and there's a clue right there), no info about the new LSH is included.
I was shocked about many of the entries included... the ency is fairly thorough. Titans fans won't find Lilith or Duela Dent in this volume, however. Characters *much* less known than those two find their way into the ency's pages, though.
The Subs got short-shrift... a nice-enough write-up, but only 'floating heads' for art.
I was particularly disappointed in the ELEMENT LAD entry, which was shorter than just about every other Legion-related one, and pretty much just covered the PROGENITOR crap.
What a glossing over of a character that's been around for so long... another reason for me to despise LEGION LOST.
So as not to end on a negative note, I'll mention an entry for CHEMICAL KING, in which it is stated (and I paraphrase) that CK has begun a 'low-key' relationship with Invisible Kid. The IK entry doesn't mention, Condo, however. Dunno how 'canonical' the DK books are considered to be...
$40 a book ain't cheap, but this is an over-sized, colorful edition with nice paper. I haven't bought one yet, but I'm going to... I think.
Todd
[ September 28, 2004, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: Donna Trom ]
Posted by Deathstroke Lad on :
In stores? I've had it on order from Amazon for months now, at a really decent discount, but they've just shipped the other items in my order as this was listed as pushed back from its October release date.
What store did you see it in?
Posted by Trysexual Girl on :
You do make it sound nice, though, Todd. I'll have to check Barnes & Noble this weekend. Posted by Donna Trom on :
It's at the B. Dalton store I work at, DSLad... so I'd think any Barnes & Noble store should have them by now, too.
Todd
Posted by Deathstroke Lad on :
I'm going to have to stop by the local one on the way home tomorrow. After I pick up my comics. Then send an e-mail to Amazon asking why they show mine as postponed.
Thanks for the heads up Todd!
Posted by HighPriestessViviane on :
The guy who helped create it is very nice, I talk with him all the time. He said he tried to do as indepth job as possible when it came to the Legion.
Posted by Mekt Ranzz on :
how is my entry?
Posted by Faraway Lad on :
It'll probably cost £40 to £50 Sterling over here Posted by Deathstroke Lad on :
Thanks for that Scott. I keep forgetting about Amazon. I would be interested to see what the book shops over here try to sell it at.
Posted by Deathstroke Lad on :
No problem Darden. I use Amazon quite a bit. With no shipping (on Domestic US orders over $25) and no taxes Amazon usually beats another other price I can find.
Posted by Nightchangeling on :
In the Legion Entry it lists Along with the established post-boot gang, these characters among the "Notable Members:"
Dragonmage Inferno Mysa Particon Radion
And there's something wrong with Atmos getting a larger entry than many of the Legionnaires. Also, it's weird that some characters who made a slight cameo as their only appearance getting entires but characters who have actally impacted stories and series do not. I wonder what the criteria was for this book.
All in all though it's pretty good.
Posted by Nightchangeling on :
quote:Originally posted by Mekt Ranzz: how is my entry?
Unlike most of the other entries, your image is from the pre-boot TMK Who's Who listing.
Posted by Valor the M'Onel on :
Hey since I won't be able to buy this because in my country it'll be a hundred dollars can someone post scans on the Legion related entries??
[ October 03, 2004, 06:44 AM: Message edited by: Valor the M'Onel ]
Posted by Nightchangeling on :
quote:Originally posted by Valor the M'Onel: Hey since I won't be able to buy this because in my country it'll be a hundred dollars can someone post scans on the Legion related entries??
I plan to do just that for the Encyclopedia Galactica forum.
Did I mention that Dawnstar's entry is under Bounty?!? And Sun Boy doesn't even rate one but Chemical King did. Not that I have anything againt Condo, but I mean c'mon!
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by Nightchangeling: Did I mention that Dawnstar's entry is under Bounty?!?
*wonders how many blood vessels Grey will pop *
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
Bounty?!?
Could it be that this was in the works for a while and certain updates weren't done? Sounds like a mish-mash of eras.
Posted by Valor the M'Onel on :
quote:Originally posted by Nightchangeling:
quote:Originally posted by Valor the M'Onel: Hey since I won't be able to buy this because in my country it'll be a hundred dollars can someone post scans on the Legion related entries??
I plan to do just that for the Encyclopedia Galactica forum.
Did I mention that Dawnstar's entry is under Bounty?!? And Sun Boy doesn't even rate one but Chemical King did. Not that I have anything againt Condo, but I mean c'mon!
I think I'll scream.
Posted by Nightchangeling on :
Actually, I'm so fascinated by what is and isn't in this book that I may make this my project of the week, this week.
We really need to discuss this book and figure out what the authors of this book were thinking?
Posted by Greybird on :
That assumes they were thinking, period.
Under "Bounty"? Ye gods, what fools these mortals be.
Posted by Deathstroke Lad on :
Amazon is still claiming this book has not shipped from the printer and is not due until the 6th. When I told them I could walk into any bookstore in town and pick up a copy their reply was to reiterate it has not shipped but they would gladly upgrade my delivery to second day air.
I guess I can wait until Friday seeing how much I saved ordering it from them. But I would like them to acknowledge that they seem to be the only supplier who doesn't have it in stock already.
Posted by Nightchangeling on :
That sucks Scott.
I've posted the A-C Legion-related entries in the Encyclopedia. And yeah, I know a couple of the scans could be better. It's a big heavy book and those articles near the center are hard to get right. I'll try to do better scans later.
Posted by Deathstroke Lad on :
My scanner is specifically made for big books. I can take the lamp area off and lay it flat on the ground. Even has software to make large scans easy. Once I get my copy I'll try to help out with the scans.
Posted by Deathstroke Lad on :
Also, I just thought of this. Do the entries in the Encyclopedia replace the current ones on DC's site? I'm wonder what the differences are. And you know who I'm wondering about the most. Posted by Nightchangeling on :
That'd be great if you could fix those awkward ones.
I'll try to get further along to the L's later tonight.
Posted by Greybird on :
Now that I'm fully awake, I got Gary's scan of the "B" entry. What bastards put this together? They take a possessed character as indicative of her essence?
~ First issue for Dawnstar was "Superboy" 226, not 225 ~ She was never a bounty hunter before joining the Legion, but a guide to hunters and a tracker-for-hire ~ "The timeline" contradicts "LSH" v4 n105, among other post-Zero-Hour Dawnstar appearances ~ Her hair was black, not brown
Well, seeing this sloppy putrescence saved me $40, at least.
Posted by Deathstroke Lad on :
Dawny's entry would piss me off too Steve. So not thoroughly researched as I had hoped. Now I'm wondering why they even bothered with including the Legion (not that I wouldn't have been extremely pissed had they been omitted) with the re-imagining coming only a month or two after the publication.
From my understanding there are actually some spoilers in some of the entries as to the fate of some current DC characters. If this is true why list the Legion as we knew it instead of listing what is to come?
Posted by matlock on :
I'm guessing that some of the v4 characters like Celeste may have rated entries simply to keep the trademarks or whatever current. Grey usually is pretty hip to that kind of thing, would that type of appearce cover those bases?
Posted by Blacula on :
Some quick thoughts after looking at what Nightchangeling has scanned -
* Can't beleive they picked *that* picture for Andromeda! Why not find one with her in her cool orange/starfield costume rather than that garish early-Legion suit?
* Seems strange that Atmos would get such a big entry... but kinda cool too.
* I may be wrong but didn't Garryn Bek die in an issue of Lobo? Shouldn't that be mentioned in his entry?
* The Dawnstar as "Bounty" entry is really weird, and a big disservice to the character.
* Didn't Brainiac 5 drop the .1 a while ago? They could have found a more recent pic for him too.
* Cool entry for Captain Comet!
* Can't believe Celeste got an entry when so many good characters didn't!
* Does Reep still have romantic feelings for Spark? Thought that sub-plot was dropped a long time ago. (Who knows what any of the characters were thinking under DnA though?)
* Chronos I semi-reformed and then died at the beginning of Chronos II's wonderful and hugely underrated series. They even reference this fact in Identity Crisis. Whoever wrote his entry here seems to be a bit out of the loop.
All in all this does seem to be a bit of an odd exercise. I'm not sure I like the odd mish-mash of Legion continuities they've gone for in the book. In fact it seems strange that they'd bother including any Legion histories at all given that we're about to start all over again anyway. Why not just wait a bit and then bring out a new book focusing on the Legion and celebrating all their histories separately?
Also, I much preferred the format of the original Who's Who series with the one main picture in colour and then a couple of background pictures in outline with the (more detailed and accurate) text down the side. The attention to detail and production style of that series seems to blow this one out of the water (from what I've seen here).
Having said all that I'm still definitely going to buy this book though. I'm a sucker for DC Who's Who style material.
Thanks for the scans Nightchangeling.
Posted by Deathstroke Lad on :
I'd like to see a return to the loose-leaf type of Who's Who. That was my favorite. But at least DC and Marvel are both bringing back this idea, character bios. Marvel's Handbook and DC's Who's Who were two of my favorite collections as a teenager in the early 80's.
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by Blacula: * Can't beleive they picked *that* picture for Andromeda! Why not find one with her in her cool orange/starfield costume rather than that garish early-Legion suit?
I wouldn't say "garish", but since she DID only wear it for half-an-issue...
quote:Originally posted by Blacula: * Didn't Brainiac 5 drop the .1 a while ago?
Lost #9.
quote:Originally posted by Blacula: * Does Reep still have romantic feelings for Spark? Thought that sub-plot was dropped a long time ago. (Who knows what any of the characters were thinking under DnA though?)
Well, given that I don't recall Spark actually speaking to Cham after he told her Garth was dead, I half-presumed she irrationally dumped him over that.
[ October 04, 2004, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: Reboot ]
Posted by Greybird on :
Yep, a book like this is partly for trademark maintenance. To bring up many nearly-forgotten characters every few years on such pages is enough to claim (if it ever arises in court) that they're still being used.
Also, it's much cheaper and easier than registering them formally, though that does last for ten years at a time. Others would try to infringe on SUPERMAN® ... but who'd be so lame-ass as to try it on BOUNTY™?
Posted by lil'rhino on :
Perhaps a paper towel company?
Posted by Nightchangeling on :
Didn't Condo 'Chemical King' Arlik get an entry??
Posted by Soy-Monkey Eater Lad on :
Sprockin' Borders didn't have it this weekend either so don't feel too bad Scott. From Gary's scans, it looks like they avoided using (practially all of) Coipel's artwork? I see the Blight but that's about it... Not too much of Batista's either so far.
[ October 05, 2004, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: Soy-Monkey Eater Lad ]
Posted by Portfolio Boy on :
Nura Nal Schnappin
Where did that come from???
Posted by Portfolio Boy on :
And why do they use the silver age first appearance for most characters (even though they only give the reboot era history) and the modern 1st appearance for others (such as Ferro)?
Posted by matlock on :
quote:Originally posted by Portfolio Boy: Nura Nal Schnappin
Where did that come from???
Unfortunately that was her real name, post-boot. Her first appearance played her as an air-headed valley girl type with narcolepsy no less. Bad, bad, bad.
Posted by Deathstroke Lad on :
Amazon supposedly shipped my copy out today. I'll try to help Gary with the scans once I have time this weekend.
Posted by Deathstroke Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by matlock:
quote:Originally posted by Portfolio Boy: Nura Nal Schnappin
Where did that come from???
Unfortunately that was her real name, post-boot. Her first appearance played her as an air-headed valley girl type with narcolepsy no less. Bad, bad, bad.
And didn't her hand to hand training come from the Khunds while the Legion was disbanded? She wasn't a member of the Legion at the time she started that training.
Posted by matlock on :
Yep, the Khunds toughened her up during the Robotican siege at Xanthu. They also trained her not to sleep at all to master her powers better.
Posted by Future on :
Normal inconsistencies aside (as an anal fan, I'm always going to pick up on when someone's home town/world is wrong or where an event is referenced wrong) it's nice to see a book like this out...but how freely pre & post boot are mixed is staggering. Postboot data with preboot stats & pics?
A lot of the image choices are incredibly outdated and the SUBS entry I saw from Gary's scans had me laugh. We got confirmation that Brek WAS promoted to a cadet, but got preboot information on all the members yet it cited their first appearance was the one & only cameo they've ever made postboot seven years ago. I assume Drura as a cadet was too recent an addition to make it in.
It's a nice effort, but with such an overall mix I definitely see this as a trademark update, as Grey said...which is sad but true of pretty much every handbook or Who's Who thing we've gotten the past eight or so years. Books of the Dead are somewhat pointless but serve this function well, I guess.
I really wish they'd let the trademarks die if they're not going to use them again anyway. Bounty isn't going to pop up ever again likely, so they should let it go...she's made her mark on Legion history (whether you loved it or hated it) and its over and time to let the trademark go to someone who may have a use for it. Paper towels, anyone?
Just opinions! "It's nice but not for me," I guess was the phrase I was beating around the bush for.
Posted by Portfolio Boy on :
SO, anyone notice the head shot for Double-Header in the Subs entry?
Which head is it? And is the other head PISSED?
Posted by Nightchangeling on :
quote:Originally posted by Valor the M'Onel: Didn't Condo 'Chemical King' Arlik get an entry??
Oops! Missed him. I'll fix it later tonight!
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
quote:Originally posted by Portfolio Boy: SO, anyone notice the head shot for Double-Header in the Subs entry?
Which head is it? And is the other head PISSED?
Jillikers! Do you *really* want them to start?
Posted by Valor the M'Onel on :
Hey are there anymore entries??If not I'm sad cause I enjoyed those entries specially the M'Onel one.
Posted by Deathstroke Lad on :
Give Gary some time. Or myself once I receive the book.
Posted by Deathstroke Lad on :
You know, that has got to be the ugliest picture of Gim I've ever seen. Is he really wearing glasses or is it just a very bad coloring job?
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by Deathstroke Lad: You know, that has got to be the ugliest picture of Gim I've ever seen. Is he really wearing glasses or is it just a very bad coloring job?
He's really wearing glasses. It's from the Planet Hell story.
Posted by Deathstroke Lad on :
Not familiar with that story. Was it in the first 25 or so issues of the previous series? I've never gone back and read those or Legionnaires even though I do have the issues.
Posted by Portfolio Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Deathstroke Lad: Not familiar with that story. Was it in the first 25 or so issues of the previous series? I've never gone back and read those or Legionnaires even though I do have the issues.
Dude, you're kidding me! The first couple of years of the reboot were the best of the entire era!! Go back and read them now! Planet Hell was early in the reboot IIRC, one of the teams first missions.
Posted by Portfolio Boy on :
Spotted another one. Magno's role with the Legion is not "undetermined, if he has one." Dyrk joined the Science Police.
Posted by Deathstroke Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Portfolio Boy:
quote:Originally posted by Deathstroke Lad: Not familiar with that story. Was it in the first 25 or so issues of the previous series? I've never gone back and read those or Legionnaires even though I do have the issues.
Dude, you're kidding me! The first couple of years of the reboot were the best of the entire era!! Go back and read them now! Planet Hell was early in the reboot IIRC, one of the teams first missions.
I just wish there was at least a TPB that contained those earlier issues. Maybe I can bring my electronic copies to work and start reading them on my lunch break.
Posted by Portfolio Boy on :
I think there is. Doesn't The Future of TOmorrow tpb cllect teh first few issues of the reboot?
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
The "Beginning of Tomorrow", as I believe it's called, collects through the Planet Hell storyline, I think.
These really are the best issues of the reboot, and some of the best Legion stories ever published, imo, even if in retrospect they sowed the seeds for many of the major problems that would eventually spell the decline of the reboot.
Posted by Deathstroke Lad on :
I just picked up a copy of that about a month or so ago. I'll have to see if that story is included.
Posted by Deathstroke Lad on :
Come to think of it, shouldn't that include some of Waid's work?
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Yeah, Waid was at least co-plotter on all of those, and he was scripting at least one of the books at the time (maybe both, I don't remember when Peyer came on board).
Posted by Portfolio Boy on :
I tend to think that, if you ook back at some of those stories, you will find themes that are likely to be re-introduced in the new era.
Chief among them, and authoritarian socirty in which the Science Police actually police the use of science.
I would expect the characterizations of many members to fall close to their early reboot counterparts.
Already we see a corrolation between the overly eager to please Colossal Boy and the overly eager to prove himself Leviathan.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
That's a good point, PB. It'll be intersting to compare the two when the new #1 hits.
I have nothing much else to add, really. I just want to thank Gary for the work he put into this.
(Though I agree with whoever said the Captain Comet entry was cool. Looks like someone at DC may actually like the guy.)
Posted by Nightchangeling on :
quote:Originally posted by Valor the M'Onel: Hey are there anymore entries??If not I'm sad cause I enjoyed those entries specially the M'Onel one.
Now they're done. Hopefully Scott can clean some up. If not I may try to do a few over again. If there's an entry I missed that should be there, let me know.
I have some thoughts to add, but I'll do it later.
Posted by Future on :
Thanks for taking the time to post all of the those, Gary! I'm surprised Magno and the White Witch got entires...and am horrified to see the image they chose for XS (though it IS a good one, I just don't like seeing her bogged down with all that gear).
Looks like the data on most of these later entries are all postboot-relevant, save for people like Polar Boy or the Wanderers who obviously can't be.
Posted by Blacula on :
BARF! What friggin moron chose *THAT* picture of Gim?!? That's the ugliest drawing of him I have ever seen! God, and there were so many good ones they could have picked too... Ugh!
After seeing that (and just the whole general weird, hotch-potch of Legion continuities they've gone with here) I don't think I'm in quite the rush to get this thing as I had been.
... And just to add my voice to a few of the other ones on here - the first few years of the reboot were *excellent* IMO! I must have read and reread those stories at least half a dozen times. If you've only read them the once DL then you should definitely give them another shot to see just how good this comic was at the beginning. It starts to go bad not long after the 'Chu-sting' story (specifically 'Emerald Violet'!) but the 2 years before that were full of top-notch writing and art. I still miss what this team could have been. Posted by Deathstroke Lad on :
I actually got my book in today. So maybe I can get the scanner working this weekend and clean up some of Gary's scans.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
Okay.
First, what's there. I think it's obvious that most of the images are just poorly chosen. Andromeda in her generic duds. Kinetix, of all of her incarnations, they chose the zombie? As mentioned earlier Leviathan has his Planet Hell goggles. And of course, XS's added baggage.
Brainiac 5.1?!?
What's missing, post-boot. The Good guys - Chuck Taine, Gear, & Shikari. All three deserved entries just based on who else made the cut. I could also add several of their allies, Inferno, Shvaughn Erin, Spider Girl, Evolvo, even Particon and Radion. The Bad guys - Universo, Dark Circle, White Triangle, Tangleweb, Composite Man, even the individual Fatal Five members (besides Tharok)!
Pre-Boot. It seems they were going to mention those who didn't make it into the reboot. But, why Bounty rather than Dawnstar? Or Celeste rather than Kono? Sun Boy, Bouncing Boy, Matter-Eater Lad, Blok, Invisible Kid II, Tellus, Quislet, and Magnetic Kid all deserved entries. Not to mention Nightwind, Lamprey, Crystal Kid, Impulse I, & Karate Kid II. Individual entries for the Subs beyond Polar Boy. The bad guys - Time Trapper, Infinite Man, Pulsar Stargrave, Starfinger I & II, Grimbor, the LSV ( plus individual listings for Cosmic King, Saturn Queen, Nemesis Kid, etc.), League of Assassins, among many others.
I know this sounds nit picky, but when you see the regular DCU listings, it's a slap in the face. Copyrights or no, why didn't the editors make a comprehensive list? If you're going to work this hard on a project why not do it right?
Fan web sites seem far more professional than this and far more accurate.
[ October 08, 2004, 04:18 AM: Message edited by: Nightcrawler ]
Posted by Greybird on :
{ Fan web sites seem far more professional than this and far more accurate. }
That, I'd say, is what makes up some of the legal eagles' motives in finding pretexts to shut some of them down. It could embarrass their own product, and they'd rather assert their "intellectual property" than compete.
Books such as Glen Cadigan's, the "Companion" and the "Best of the Outpost," don't compete with their current product, and -- with royalties -- can thus be tolerated.
Posted by Reboot on :
So we are being quoted for pointing out numerous errors. I love it!
What I don't love is the idea of a second printing with errors corrected. I'd rather them issue a second edition with new entries and corrections. I don't want to have to buy another copy.
Posted by Greybird on :
Is this Greenberger the editor, or one of them? I gave him a polite earful about my sister's screwed-up page.
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by Greybird: Is this Greenberger the editor, or one of them? I gave him a polite earful about my sister's screwed-up page.
He wrote about a quarter of the entries (see here). He's also DC's Collected Editions head honcho.
[ October 08, 2004, 06:56 AM: Message edited by: Reboot ]
Posted by EuroMutt on :
I hope folks don't mind: I have a pretty exhaustive list of corrections for theLegion related entries in the Encyclopedia. Was anyone else confused by all the inconsistencies and errors? I think if anyone were to go through and catalog them, that book would be as big as the actual Encyclopedia. Here are those inconsistencies within the Legion entries, so that it’s all in one place. I decided not to discuss the arbitrary nature in which characters were included or excluded, but just correct the facts that were presented according to postboot continuity (which is the overriding continuity when this was published).
- Andromeda: Current first appearance was Legion of Super-Heroes (4th series) #66. Her Legion tryout uniform? She wore that for less than one issue. Why not show her in her actual costume? She didn’t defeat the White Triangle thugs, only their shadow-leader Roxxas. Her new powers and look sort of went away of their own accord, didn’t they? - Apparition: Current first appearance was Legionnaire #0. No mention of her time as Phase? I know space was at a premium, but that was a big part of the character. And it wasn’t an assassination attempt on her mother, but of the entire United Planets Council. She didn’t give birth to Cub until a few years after returning to the future and after the Blight invasion. - Atmos: Current first appearance was Legionnaires #0. It says the Blight took over Xanthu, which never happened. Also, how he got his powers postboot was never shown. It wasn’t as told here, as he was one of the three heroes vying for planetary champion alongside Star Boy and Kid Quantum I in Legionnaires #0 (so he had them before both Kid Quantum and Star Boy left for the Legion). - Bek, Garryn: He didn’t defect to the R.E.B.E.L.S. he was on Lyrl’s side after being brainwashed with the rest of the L.E.G.I.O.N. Also, how about showing him in a L.E.G.I.O.N. uniform. - Blight: They got it right. - Bounty: hasn’t been a part of continuity for over 10 years. And, when last seen, she was rightly Dawnstar once again. - Brainiac 5.1: Historical first appearance was Action Comics #276. He hasn’t gone by that codename for over four years. Also, he hasn’t worn that uniform for over five. He was drafted into the Legion, although he ignored the summons at first. And his “emotional upgrade” kind of disappeared after the Dark Circle storyline. No mention of the monkey on his shoulder? - Brande, R.J.: Historical first appearance was Adventure Comics #350. They got it right, except to mention that his murderous business partner (Doyle) was a member of the White Triangle, which is why he attacked Brande. - Captain Comet: Again, an old costume that hasn’t been seen in years. No mention of the fact that he is now in charge of L.E.G.I.O.N.? - Celeste: Hasn’t been part of continuity for over ten years. - Chameleon: Current first appearance was Legionnaires #0. If they are going to flip the art, at least flip the L-star buckle back. They also glossed over a lot of details. - Chemical King: Current first appearance was Legionnaires #59. He hasn’t been called that name in over ten years (since reboot). It even says so in the entry. - Chronos: when he battled the Legion, they weren’t time-lost. He fought them in the 30th century (XS was time lost however). - C.O.M.P.U.T.O.: They got it right, although they failed to mention Robotica took control of Pluto/Warworld and joined the UP afterward. - Cosmic Boy: They could distinguish the two first appearances as historical & current. The reasons for his being on the cruiser with Garth & Imra are kind of skewed, but for all intents and purposes are correct. A lot of details are glossed over for space. Why was his duplicitous relationship with Saturn Girl so important to mention, rather than more detail given to his service as leader? And no mention of his brother, Pol, following in his footsteps. - The Dark Lord: Mordru's first appearance defiantly was NOT JSA Secret Files #1. It should be listed as Adventure Comics #369 for historical and Legionnaires #45 for current. - Darkseid: They fail to mention any contact with the Legion. Of course, given his extensive history, this isn’t surprising. - Dreamer: Current first appearance was Legion of Super-Heroes (4th series) #84. The name Schnappin is no longer a part of her name as she had it changed. - Element Lad: Current first appearance was Legion of Super-Heroes (4th series) #71. They glossed over a lot of details. - Fatal Five: They got it right, except to mention Mano’s intense hatred of Tharok. - Ferro: Historical first appearance was Adventure Comics #346. Ignot never tried to reignite the sun during Final Night. That was Ferro, and he was stopped and sent back to Earth by Hal Jordan. Ignot died protecting his brother from Doctor 30. - Garv: Wasn’t it Vril Dox II who freed the L.E.G.I.O.N. from the mind control? Garv rejoined L.E.G.I.O.N. when Captain Comet took over. - Gates: his view of the Legion slowly changed over time, so that he decided to stay with the team, even after he no longer had to. - Alien Races & Worlds: The Khunds had become quasi-allies by the end of DNA’s run (I liken this to the Klingons in Star Trek). - Insect Queen: I’m not sure when it was, but shouldn’t some sort of historical mention have gone to Lana Lang for her silver-age roll as Insect Queen (don’t know when she first put on the costume, so I can’t give an exact issue number). - Invisible Kid: Historical first appearance was Action Comics #267. No mention of his “brother” Jacques, the second Invisible Kid? - Karate Kid; Current first appearance was Legion of Super-Heroes (4th series) #64. - Kid Quantum I & II: Kid Quantum I’s Current first appearance was Legionnaires #0. It fails to mention Jazmin’s membership in the Uncanny Amazers. - Kinetix: She never fell under the power of the Emerald Eye, except when the entire team did. - L.E.G.I.O.N.: They did restore L.E.G.I.O.N.’s good name, and Captain Comet is now in charge. - Legion of Substitute Heroes: Historical first appearance was Adventure Comics #306. Infectious Lass and Porcupine Pete were never shown as members postboot. Antenna Boy & Double-Header were never seen period postboot. - Legion of Super-Heroes: Current first appearance was Legion of Super-Heroes (4th series) #0. Dragonmage, Mysa, Particon & Radion were never members, not even honorary. The team started out in the 30th century, not the 31st. Again, Ignot was not part of Final Night. Universo has only once used Saturn Girl’s telepathy against the team, not multiple times. - Leviathan: Historical first appearance was Action Comics #267. - Lightning Lord: Current first appearance was Legion of Super-Heroes (4th series) #0. They got most of it right. - Live Wire: They could distinguish the two first appearances as historical & current. A lot of details were glossed over for space. - Lobo: his ability to regenerate and replicate himself from a drop of blood was stripped by Vril Dox II, not Brainiac 5. Beyond that, it happened way before the R.E.B.E.L. days. - Magno: How about mentioning that he joined the Science Police after the Legion disbanded? - M’onel: Historical first appearance was Superboy (1st series) #89. He was freed from the Stasis [Phantom] Zone in the 30th century, not the 31st. A lot of details were glossed over. - Monstress: They got it right. - Polar Boy: Historical first appearance was Adventure Comics #306. He hasn’t worn the Lightle designed costume in years, defiantly not since reboot. The call that went out was not directed solely to the Subs, it was a general call that Polar Boy felt they weren’t ready to answer. He joined the Legion Cadets recently (which is oddly mentioned in the Legion Subs entry, but not his own). - R.E.B.E.L.S.: Amon Hakk, Garryn Bek, Mari’jn Bek, Gigantus, Layla and Zena Moonstruck were never members of R.E.B.E.L.S. They were all brainwashed into following Lyrl. Telepath was only a member reluctantly (he was still under brainwashing, but he was more afraid of Vril Dox II). Borb Borb was a member, and is not listed (nor was the fact that he sacrificed himself to save his team). - Saturn Girl: Could have distinguished between historical & current first appearances. A lot of things are glossed over, for sake of space. She finally did accept Garth in his Element Lad body. - Sensor: Historical first appearance was Adventure Comics #346. Failed to mention how much she hated her new form. - Shrinking Violet – Historical first appearance was Adventure Comics #276. It even mentions that she isn’t called Shrinking Violet anymore, but abbreviated it to simply “Violet”. They glossed over a lot of details. - Spark: Historical first appearance was Adventure Comics #308. A lot of details are glossed over, including her relationship with Chameleon. - Star Boy: Historical first appearance was Adventure Comics #282. He started out in the 30th century, not the 31st. - Superboy: Historical first appearance was More Fun Comics #101. Completely fails to mention his role with the Legion in any way, shape or form. - Tharok: could have distinguished between his historical & current first appearances. They failed to mention the huge conflict between Tharok & Mano (which ended up in Mano destroying his Cybernetic side at one point). - Thunder II: Technically she’s the third Thunder, since the other two were from the 21st century. Status is defiantly that of a hero. - Timber Wolf: Historical first appearance was Adventure Comics #327. How about mentioning his rivalry with Ultra Boy? - Triad: Historical first appearance was Action Comics #276. She’s hasn’t worn that Legion uniform in over three years. Her relationship was never officially ended with Chuck. - Ultra Boy: Historical first appearance was Superboy #98. He wasn’t on a scavenging mission when he got his powers; he was fleeing from another gang. - Umbra: they got it right, even if they glossed over some details. - Wanderers: They haven’t been a part of continuity since the reboot. - White Witch: Historical first appearance was Adventure Comics #350. Mysa was never once referred to as the White Witch postboot. Her occupation is that of a sorceress, not an adventurer. She didn’t give Kinetix her telekinesis; she just made it easier for Zoe to be receptive of magically induced powers. - Wildfire: historical first appearance was Superboy (first series) #195. His second suit was not created by Professor Vultan, but by the Kwai. - XS: She wasn’t invited to join the Legion, she was drafted. It was in the 30th century, not the 31st. They glossed over a lot of details, including her great service record in the Legion.
[ November 09, 2004, 07:50 AM: Message edited by: EuroMutt ]
Posted by Pariscub on :
Why is Bounty the only pre-Zero Hour Legionnaire featured?
I wish we had seen more of the adult Legion.
Also, no entry for Mordru? Or did I miss it?
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by EuroMutt: - Brande, R.J.: Historical first appearance was Adventure Comics #350. They got it right, except to mention that he was the richest sentient in the known cosmos (Something that has always been a part of his lore). Also, that Business partner (Doyle) was a member of the White Triangle, which is why he attacked Brande.
Nope - post-ZH, he was third (McCauley fourth). The Beginning of Tommorrow TPB text page also mentions that Chu had the record of who was outright richest "sealed", but this was never followed up on.
quote:Originally posted by EuroMutt: - The Dark Lord: Mordru's first appearance defiantly was NOT JSA Secret Files #1. It should be listed as Adventure Comics #369 for historical and Legionnaires #45 for current.
Yep. It's not even his earliest continuity appearance for cripes sake - that goes to his Gemworld appearances
quote:Originally posted by EuroMutt: - Dreamer: Current first appearance was Legion of Super-Heroes (4th series) #84. The name Schnappin has never been a part of her name as far as I can determine.
quote:Originally posted by EuroMutt: - Fatal Five: They got it right, except to mention Mano’s intense hatred of Tharok.
Something DnA should have done better than glossing over too...
quote:Originally posted by EuroMutt: - Kid Quantum I & II: Kid Quantum I’s Current first appearance was Legionnaires #0. His powers were derived solely form his belt, not through any real power. It fails to mention Jasmine’s membership in the Uncanny Amazers.
Nope - the belt was an amplifier, rather than the source of his power. And it's "Jazmin".
quote:Originally posted by EuroMutt: The team started out in the 30th century, not the 31st.
Given the sliding timeline (Since the post-ZH Legion was always @ Now + 1000 years, notwithstanding the typo in For No Better Reason), that's probably deliberate, rather than an error.
quote:Originally posted by EuroMutt: - Lightning Lord: Current first appearance was Legion of Super-Heroes (4th series) #73. Mekt had seemed to be rehabilitated and wanted to honor his brother by taking his place.
Actually, it was v4 #0, in flashback. And it seemed more an obsession than rehabilitation - note also how he dropped the stammer when no-one was looking. Dangling plot that won't be resolved (DnA really dropped the ball in Foundations..)
quote:Originally posted by EuroMutt: Lobo: his ability to regenerate and replicate himself from a drop of blood was stripped by Vril Dox II, not Brainiac 5. Beyond that, it happened way before the R.E.B.E.L. days.
I haven't seen this - does it mention it was restored with his deaging in Sins of Youth?
quote:Originally posted by EuroMutt: - M’onel: Historical first appearance was Superboy (1st series) #89. He was freed from the Phantom Zone in the 30th century, not the 31st. A lot of details were glossed over.
See above on the timing. And it should probably be noted that, although both are technically correct, "Statis Zone" was the term used in the actual story.
quote:Originally posted by EuroMutt: - Spark: Historical first appearance was Adventure Comics #308. A lot of details are glossed over, including her relationship with Chameleon.
Probably because, after giving it some focus in her Legion Worlds issue and having Cham be the one to greet her through the threshold, DnA dropped it to such an extent that we never saw them together on-panel again...
quote:Originally posted by EuroMutt: - Star Boy: Historical first appearance was Adventure Comics #282. He started out in the 30th century, not the 31st.
See above on dating.
quote:Originally posted by EuroMutt: - Triad: Historical first appearance was Action Comics #276. She’s hasn’t worn that Legion uniform in over three years. Her relationship was never officially ended with Chuck.
Post-ZH, did it ever actually begin? Neutral went to a baseball (?) game with him once, and they could be interpreted as dating in Lgs 77, but not enough panel time to make the call (and it's worth noting that in the Worlds #1 backup, the only one she mentions that she mentions specifically that she misses is RJ (her "dad")- and Chuck is just as inaccessible.
quote:Originally posted by EuroMutt: - XS: She wasn’t invited to join the Legion, she was drafted. It was in the 30th century, not the 31st. They glossed over a lot of details, including her great service record in the Legion.
Again, see above on the timing.
[ November 08, 2004, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: Reboot ]
Posted by EuroMutt on :
Ok, thanks to Reboot, I fixed the typos and some of the other details I totally screwed up on.
However, I didn't fix the 30th century/31st century thing becasue some of the Legion characters are stated to have started out in the 30th c. and some are stated to have started in the 31st c. (characters that "first" appeared simultaniously). I wanted to show some consistancy. Further, even if the Legion started out on January 1, 3000 (which it didn't, because Legion of the Damned clearly states it as the end of the 30th century, which means the team was established for a couple of years before this story) the members were still born, grew up and lived their pre-Legion lives in the 30th century. I know about the slide rule in DCU, but that still doesn't give enough time in the 31st century (four years) for everything to take place.
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by EuroMutt: Ok, thanks to Reboot, I fixed the typos and some of the other details I totally screwed up on.
If you're fixing simple typos too, it's "Atmos," not "Atamos"
quote:Originally posted by EuroMutt: However, I didn't fix the 30th century/31st century thing becasue some of the Legion characters are stated to have started out in the 30th c. and some are stated to have started in the 31st c. (characters that "first" appeared simultaniously). I wanted to show some consistancy. Further, even if the Legion started out on January 1, 3000 (which it didn't, because Legion of the Damned clearly states it as the end of the 30th century, which means the team was established for a couple of years before this story) the members were still born, grew up and lived their pre-Legion lives in the 30th century. I know about the slide rule in DCU, but that still doesn't give enough time in the 31st century (four years) for everything to take place.
That's a general sliding-timeline complaint, but I sincerely doubt four DCU years have taken place since Zero Hour (SF3003 just says "a few years," leaving it vague). And specific references like LotD/Legion 1 should just be discounted.
If I had written it, I would have just left all the post-LSH 0 stuff as 31st Century.
[ November 09, 2004, 02:55 AM: Message edited by: Reboot ]
Posted by EuroMutt on :
Thanks for yet another proofread, Reboot.
Posted by Reboot on :
Oh, and I've figured out why "The Dark Lord"'s first appearance was listed as JSASF1. That's what was given in his "profile" of that issue, since they were trying to hide that it was Mordru (they revealed it at the end of JSA 3, IIRC, and JSASF1 was pre-JSA 1). Still an error, but at least I get why now...
Posted by jimgallagher on :
Has anybody checked this out? I was flipping through it at the bookstore this morning and the way they handled the Legion is so disjointed and inconsistent it's appalling.
For instance, they list Bouncing Boy who only appeared in the original continuity. They list Triad who only appeared in the reboot, with no listing for Duo Damsel or Triplicate Girl, who is the current incarmation of the character. They list both Lightning Lad AND Live Wire separately, but don't list Lightning Lass at all, and Light Lass is basically just a footnote on the Lightning Lad page. The listing for the Legion shows the current 3boot team, who are on their way out the door. They listed reboot Leviathan (Gim), but I don't think they listed Colossal Boy, not sure though. They listed Dream Girl, but showed her in her Dreamer costume from the reboot. They listed Element Lad but showed him in his Alchemist uniform, all crystallized over like when he was Jarth. It's also sprinkled with annoying typos: Gini Allon, Beep Daggle, etc.
What an utter mess!
In my opinion they should've stuck with one continuity or another consistently, instead of mixing and matching willy nilly.
I guess the Legion will always be DC's redheaded stepchild, alas. (or should I say a Lass?)
[ November 08, 2008, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: jimgallagher ]
Posted by Ricardo on :
So they didn't fix the mess on the previous edition of the Encyclopedia?
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
I bought the updated version and compared the two when I first got it weeks ago. I wanted to list it all here but haven't had the time. I plan on updating the EG forum with the "new" entires eventually.
The updated version is as big a mess as the original.
Posted by Askanipsion on :
quote:Originally posted by Donna Trom: Titans fans won't find Lilith or Duela Dent in this volume, however.
Boo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lilith deserves to be in.
DC just continues to disappoint me.
Posted by veryvery on :
HAHAHAHA beep daggle ;_;
Posted by Blacula on :
quote:Originally posted by Askanipsion:
quote:Originally posted by Donna Trom: Titans fans won't find Lilith or Duela Dent in this volume, however.
Boo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lilith deserves to be in.
DC just continues to disappoint me.
That was the previous volume DT was talking about. I'm pretty sure that Lilith (as Omen though - Yuck!) has been added to the update. Along with Mal (Yay!)
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
Lilith was added as "Lilith." Herald (Vox) too.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
A Quick overview of the update [PART 1] -
Andromeda - "Laurel Gand, a SUPERGIRL analogue in one version of Legion's continuity, cam from the repressive planet Daxam" Apparition - "In one incarnation of the Legion of Super-Heroes, Apparition is the code name for the Legionnaire known as Phantom Girl..." Atmos - "In one timeline of the Legion of Super-Heroes..." Bek, Garryn - no change Blight - "The techno-organic Blight exist in one timeline inhabited by the Legion of Super-Heroes." Bouncing Boy - new Bounty - no change Brainiac 5 - Updated to 3Boot version Brande, R.J. - "In one timeline containing the Legion of Super-Heroes..." Captain Comet - Updated to current version Celeste - "In one timeline containing an alternate history of the Legion of Super-Heroes..." Chameleon - Image the same, but info based on 3boot character Chemical King - no change Chronos I - Updated with new Atom (Ryan Choi) info C.O.M.P.U.T.O. - Image reduced to thumbnail - "Several versions of the Computo supercomputer have existed in timelines containing the Legion of Super-Heroes."
Posted by Blacula on :
quote:Originally posted by Nightcrawler: Lilith was added as "Lilith." Herald (Vox) too.
Thanks Gary. I remember now. She's wearing the Omen outfit though right? I knew there was something about the entry that bugged.
I bought the first DC Encycolpedia and was supremely disappointed. Some horrible artwork choices and way too many errors and omissions.
Knowing that this update is just more of the same means it is therefore not something I can afford to waste my money on (as tempting as it is with Mal and Lilith finally getting entries).
I just hope that DC is not looking at these books as a substitute for the old "Who's Who" books. They were GREAT! I would love to see an updated version of that with new artwork, more in-depth and better edited entries and so on. If Marvel can have been doing it for a few years now then DC sure as heck should.
Posted by Askanipsion on :
quote:Originally posted by Blacula:
quote:Originally posted by Askanipsion:
quote:Originally posted by Donna Trom: Titans fans won't find Lilith or Duela Dent in this volume, however.
Boo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lilith deserves to be in.
DC just continues to disappoint me.
That was the previous volume DT was talking about. I'm pretty sure that Lilith (as Omen though - Yuck!) has been added to the update. Along with Mal (Yay!)
Well I liked that Lilith finally became a full telepath as Omen but I hated the "Raven-like" persona she had when she started wearing that awful hooded robe.
She should have wore an Emma Peel catsuit as a costume and possessed the full precognition & telepathy powers.
Posted by jimgallagher on :
I hated "Red Raven" too, Askanipsion. Lilith's my girl though.
Posted by Askanipsion on :
quote:Originally posted by jimgallagher: I hated "Red Raven" too, Askanipsion. Lilith's my girl though.
I will NEVER forgive Judd Winick for killing Lilith....that story was so poorly written.
Why would anyone go up and try to touch a berserking "Superman"?????? Then when she is grabbed by the "Superman", instead of teleporting (which she can do) - she decides to SCRATCH the berserking Superman!!
Ugg I get angry every time i think about it.....now Judd is destroying my other favorite Titans.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
Quick overview of the update [PART 2] -
Cosmic Boy - Updated to 3Boot version Dark Lord - no change Darkseid - No change except ending paragraph to "...and suffered the wrath of Superman who imprisoned him in the Source Wall for a time. The experience temporarily drained Darkseid of his Omega Effect, but despite the return of his abilities he remained unable to prevent the death of the New Gods and the end of the Fourth World." Dream Girl - not Dreamer, image remained the same but text updated to 3boot Ekron - new (lame origin) Element Lad - image remained the same but text updated to 3boot Fatal Five - images remained the same but some of the text updated to 3boot and recent appearances Ferro - no change Garv - removed, not in updated version Gates - removed, not in updated version Alien Races and Worlds - no change Not sure if I should add Imeriex now that he played such a large role in the cartoon...no Legion mention in the Directory however Insect Queen - no change Invisible Kid - Updated to 3boot Justice League of America/Justice Society of America - now with Lightning Saga mentions Karate Kid - Updated with both 3boot and Countdown versions (image of 3boot version) Kid Quantum I & II - "In one timeline,..." Kinetix - no change
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
Quick overview of the update [PART 3] -
Krypto - new L.E.G.I.O.N. - same, but added to last line "Vril Dox returned as L.E.G.I.O.N. leader in time for the Rann-Thanagar War." Legion of Substitute Heroes - no change Legion of Super-Heroes - Majorly updated to address the reboots and articles on "The Latest Legion" and "The Lightning Saga" - Roster shows the 3boot membership and names - Wanderers also get an image and write-up Leviathan - Image same - "In one timeline, the Legionnaire Colossal Boy is known as Leviathan...In an alternate Legion timeline, Gim Allon is a member of a race of Antarctic giants who has the ability to shrink to normal human size. He goes by the name Colossal Boy, despite his protests that 'Micro Lad' is more accurate." Lightning Lord - image same, but updated to include Superman/Batman and 3boot versions of the character Lightning Lad - new entry of the 3boot character, with the First Appearance, Status, Real Name, etc of Lobo's entry - proof-reading is a lost art ain't it! Live Wire - a condensed version of the previous book Lobo - no changes Magno - Wow! They removed Gates, but kept this one intact, DC has some nerve! Matter-Eating Lad! I'm not making this up folks! Gets a recap of both the original and 3boot versions - The writers deserve a raise for such high quality work Mon-El (Valor) - not M'Onel (Valor) - Updated to the 3boot version Monstress - image reduced, otherwise no change Persuader - new entry, discusses the various versions Polar Boy - Updated? "In the Legion's future, Polar Boy fought the ant-alein regime that had taken control of Earth, helping Supermanand his fellow Legionnaires despite his loss of his arm. In an alternate Legion timeline, Brek Bannin became a member of the Wanderers under the leadership of Garth Ranzz (see Lightning Lord). Princess Projectra - new entry of both the original and the 3boot version - image 3boot R.E.B.E.L.S. - no entry Saturn Girl - Updated to 3boot Saturn Queen - Based mostly on the Superman/Batman and Supergirl version Sensor - no entry, removed Shrinking Violet - 3boot version added to original entry
[ November 15, 2008, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: Nightcrawler ]
Posted by superboymddjr on :
quote:Originally posted by Nightcrawler: Lilith was added as "Lilith." Herald (Vox) too.
I am positive in the original DC Encyclopedia, Herald had an entry there...I am sure of it. I remember comparing pages and pages, his entries and Doom Patrol entries.
Posted by Blacula on :
^^^ Really? OK - I must've just gotten overly excited that they'd kept him in the new one that I forgot he was also in the old one. Thanks supes.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
Quick overview of the update [PART 4] -
Spark - "In another timeline containing the Legion of Super-Heroes, Ayla Ranzz is known as Light Lass and possesses the ability to alter the gravity of objects. This ability is a new one, replacing her previous possession of lightning powers like those of her brother Garth." Star Boy - Updated to include all three Star Boys. Image unchanged. Brief mention of Starman VIII (See Star Boy) in the Starman piece. Strata - no change Sun Boy - new entry which lists the recent Action Comics version as the "second" Sun Boy and the 3boot as the third. Now even the writers admit they aren't the same. Image of 3boot. Suicide Squad features the 20th Century male Persuader as a member. Superboy - Updated double-page spread of Kon-El. Supergirl - did I forget to include her the first time? Superman - Mentions that the LSH were re-instated into his history. Also, note about Superman-Prime. Tharok - no change Thunder - no change Timber Wolf - no changes, including listing his first appearance as LEGION WORLDS #6. Maybe they got tired of updating towards the end? Time Trapper - new entry Triad - no change, yup they gave up! Ultra Boy - Added "Multiple versions of Ultra Boy exist in different timelines, but in nearly all of them he is Jo Nah of the planet Rimbor." Otherwise no change...lazy! Umbra - no entry! Wait! They remove Umbra, but don't give Shadow Lass an entry. But, Thunder and Magno, etc. are still in?!? What the sprock! Wanderers - Slightly updated to give a more vague future for the team. White Witch - no change Wildfire - No change beyond the First Appearance (back to the original). These writers phoned in the last few letters of the alphabet didn't they. XS - surprise...no change!
I also want to point out that they use Francis' art work for at least the Brainiac 5 and Saturn Girl entries (maybe more), but do not credit him as an artist. For shame. Not a quality job.
![[Lightning Lord - Post-Boot]](graemlins/LightningLord1.gif)
![[Triad]](graemlins/Triad.gif)
You do make it sound nice, though, Todd. I'll have to check Barnes & Noble this weekend. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
*
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
Oops! Missed him. I'll fix it later tonight!
![[LOL]](graemlins/lol.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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