The Legion of Super-Heroes teamed up with Superman in “DC Comics Presents” #13. It was the first installment in a three-part saga that dealt with the fate of, Jon Ross, the son of Pete Ross. The issue had a cover date of September 1979. Paul Levitz wrote all three stories. Dick Dillin did the pencils.
Lightning Lad, Saturn Girl, Sun Boy, and Dawnstar take a time bubble back to Superman’s time. Superman is in the process of intervening in an intergalactic war. One of the alien races, the Nyrvnians, are cosmic kidnappers who steal people from other worlds to become warriors. They have been at war for centuries. An outraged Superman vows to disarm the planet. The four Legionnaires appear, perched on top of the time bubble. Saturn Girl sends Superman a telepathic message to stop intervening. The Legionnaires explain that between the present and the 30th century, Earth has to form an alliance with the Nyrvnians to repel an alien invasion. In order to win, the alliance depends upon weapons that have been developed during thousands of years of uninterrupted war. Superman objects to allowing the war to continue when he has the power to stop it. The Legionnaires convince him that there is no way he can change history. Superman finally puts his trust in Saturn Girl and heads back toward Earth. After Superman leaves, the Legionnaires intervene in the war just enough to save lives until the Nyrvnian fleet gets orders to end the attack.
Back on Earth, the adult Pete Ross, bursts into the Daily Planet office and tells Clark Kent that his son, Jon, has been kidnapped. Pete reveals that he knows Clark is Superman and pleads for him to save his son. It turns out that Jon Ross has been kidnapped by the Nyrvnians.
Meanwhile, the Legionnaires are meeting with young Jon Ross on Nyrvn. They tell him that he is destined to become a great warrior and will one day save the whole galaxy. Jon Ross wants nothing to do with this. Saturn Girl reads his mind and learns that knows Superman’s identity of Clark Kent. They realize that Superman will be back. As Superman again tries to intervene, Dawnstar flies upon him and adds her speed to his, causing the two of them to break the time barrier. They witness the great battle that Jon Ross is destined to lead. Dawnstar explains to Superman how important it is for him not to interfere. He doesn’t buy it and attempts to stop the war. He is injured by a Nyrvnian weapon. The Legionnaires pull him into the time bubble to recover. As he regains consciousness, Saturn Girl reads his mind and discovers he has a plan. They return to the present, and the Legionnaires help him bring Superman robots, that can no longer function on Earth, to Nyrvn. They essentially build a giant war game that will allow the development of weapons without the loss of a single life. Jon Ross will remain and become the leader he is destined to be.
In the epilogue, Superman attempts to explain to Pete Ross why his son can’t return home and how some things are beyond his control. Pete says he will never forgive Superman. Pete tells Superman that he has taken his son and he will pay for that. Pete sneers into the final panel and vows “By God, I swear you will pay!”
[ October 11, 2008, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: Jerry ]
Posted by Jerry on :
The story picks back up in “DC Comics Presents “ #14. The Legion has gone back to the future. The issue features a showdown between Superman and Superboy. It’s actually Pete Ross’s mind in Superboy’s body. Pete uses his wealth to access some of Lex Luthor’s weapons. With them, he manages to bring Superboy to 1979 and switch minds with him. He kidnaps Lois, Jimmy, Perry, Lana, and Steve. He captures Superman and forces his friends to be jurors and witnesses to Superman’s execution. Superboy/Pete is attempting to execute Superman with a big bazooka that shoots kryptonite. Superboy’s mind remains in Smallville in Pete’s bound body. He manages an escape, goes to the old Kent home, finds a dog whistle, and manages to summon Krypto from space. Krypto attacks “Pete in Superboy’s body” and saves the day.
The fate of Jon Ross is left unresolved for almost a year. It finally wraps up in “DC Comics Presents” # 25. The guest star is the Phantom Stranger. Pete Ross is mad and locked up in an asylum. The story opens with him ripping up pictures of Superman. Superman is in the Fortress. He feels sudden pain. The Phantom Stranger appears. He reveals that Superman is being weakened by magic. Pete Ross has decided to use magic against Superman since his previous attempt with Luthor’s scientific weapons failed. He is allied with the Phantom Stranger villain Tala, Queen of Darkness. Superman is prompted to fly to Nyrvn to retrieve Jon Ross while the Stranger and Tala do battle on Earth. Jon Ross expresses dismay that it took Superman so long to return. Jon describes his encounter with the Legionnaires and says that he didn’t believe them. Superman says that sometimes kids are smarter than adults, he doesn’t know what destiny will bring, but no child will grow up as an orphan on an alien world while there is breath in his body to prevent it. He takes Jon Ross back to Earth and to the asylum where Pete is. Superman says that he still believes there are things beyond his control but that he had forgotten the old cliché, “If at first you don’t succeed try, try again!” The three embrace. Phantom Stranger wins his battle and Lois and Clark have a sweet moment in the epilogue.
Posted by Jerry on :
My thoughts:
This story has a lot of obvious flaws. It’s not without merit for Legion fans, though. A while back, I posted about the 1977 JLA/JSA/Legion team up published in the “Justice League of America”. I was critical of Dick Dillin’s artwork on that project. His work here is much better. It’s probably the combination of Dick Giordano’s inks and the smaller cast. The four Legionnaires presented here look great. The cover is one of my favorite Dillin covers. It’s an outer space scene with Superman flying up from the bottom right. The four serious looking Legionnaires hover above him while alien spaceships swirl in the background. It’s the perfect setting for Dawnstar and she looks terrific. Lightning Lad has a yellow electric charge snaking between his hands. Sun Boy takes center stage and has light radiating around him. Looking back at the cover put me in mind of a recent post here on Legion World that asked if Dirk’s costume is iconic and if it could have been improved on. Weighty topic. It looks good in this shot. Imra is at her pink bikini and Farrah hair best. I guess Legion fans will always debate the merits of the look. Dillin pulls it off. She looks like a serious, formidable and exotic hero.
Good decision by Levitz to use only four Legionnaires. Superman gets most of the action so there wouldn’t have been room for any more to get dialogue or attention. I wonder why he chose these four? It’s a good team, but they have more dialogue than action. In the previously mentioned JLA/JSA/Legion team up, Superman was dismissive of the Legion because of their young age. That’s corrected here. Superman takes them seriously and trusts them because of their history and friendship. There is a scene where they do get some action against the Nyrvnian war fleet. It is a single page that is cleverly divided into four panels. Each Legionnaire gets his or her own panel. The script and art work well together and it is a good use of limited space.
Garth takes the lead in interacting with young Jon Ross. He comes across as compassionate and as a comforter. You get a sense of the solid father that he will become. A far cry from Geoff John’s recently re-imagined wisecracking practical joker version of the character.
I have mixed feelings about the scene where Dawnstar “adds her speed” to Superman’s and propels him to the future. I’m an advocate of the position that Dawnstar was one of the most powerful Legionnaires. This presentation lends credibility to that argument. I’m not a fan of the of the silver age concept that Superman/Superboy could break the time barrier by flying at super speed. Neat trick, but it never made sense to me. How exactly would that work? How would he know when or where to stop? That problem is compounded here because Dawnstar seems to control the time in which they stop with awesome precision. She was never shown to be able to break the time barrier on her own. How could she have been so accurate her first time with this trick? It defies logic, even 1970’s comic book logic.
If you think too hard about the time travel elements of this story it falls apart pretty quickly. Why exactly did the Legion choose this moment in time to intervene? If they believed that Superman couldn’t really change history/destiny, why did they bother to intervene at all? Where were they when Superman went back to get Jon Ross in the Phantom Stranger conclusion? The time travel elements get confusing in the second part of the story as well. Could Superboy and Superman really exist in the same time at the same place? DC never really answered that question. It seemed to be whatever worked best for the story in question. Pete seemed to be able to gain access to Luthor’s time travel device pretty easily. The whole concept of time travel was treated a bit too casually for my taste.
Another disappointment was that the Legion didn’t interact with Pete Ross. He was an honorary Legionnaire. They should have taken their case directly to him.
In spite of the flaws, I liked this story. I really loved “DC Comics Presents”. It was fun to see Superman team up with other characters in the DC universe. It was fitting that the Legion made an appearance fairly early in the run. In spite of the confusing time travel concepts, we got to see Superman face a unique moral dilemma. It was interesting and the fate of Jon Ross was compelling enough so that the story could be drawn out over a few issues. The Legion was well represented by the four members chosen, and Levitz’s care for the team and his skill at handling the characters were evident.
[ October 12, 2008, 08:01 PM: Message edited by: Jerry ]
Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
Boy, that brings back memories.
Nice summary and analysis Jerry. Looked at closely, the story/time travel elements don't make much sense.
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by Jerry: I have mixed feelings about the scene where Dawnstar “adds her speed” to Superman’s and propels him to the future. I’m an advocate of the position that Dawnstar was one of the most powerful Legionnaires. This presentation lends credibility to that argument. I’m not a fan of the of the silver age concept that Superman/Superboy could break the time barrier by flying at super speed. Neat trick, but it never made sense to me. How exactly would that work? How would he know when or where to stop? That problem is compounded here because Dawnstar seems to control the time in which they stop with awesome precision. She was never shown to be able to break the time barrier on her own. How could she have been so accurate her first time with this trick? It defies logic, even 1970’s comic book logic.
And yet, it can be pretty easily rationalized.
Comic-book logic has always had speedsters, such as the Flash, able to break the time barrier, and while Dawnstar was never shown to do this before, she was described as being as fast a flier as Superboy.
Even then, she didn't do it alone in this book, but did it by flying up to Superman and 'adding her speed to his.' While this is fluffy at best, it's easy to picture a car moving flat out, and then someone firing a booster rocket that has attached itself to the roof and accelerating the car even faster, which is the hand-waved pseudoscience explanation we are given here.
As for locating the precise 'time' she wished to, that's kind of her power, to track a specific thing. In this case, she's chosen a time period, and her faultless tracking power has led her to exactly 'when' she wants to arrive. It seems like a logical extrapolation for how her tracking power would work in the time-stream.
It sounds like a pretty neat story!
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
Thanks, Jerry. I never read this story. Curious that they waited a year to wrap it up, rather than do a one year later in the following issue.
Is there any reference to just how fast Dawnstar can fly? She could keep up with the Legion cruiser, but I don't recall any specific number/limit given.
Posted by Kid Charlemagne on :
Hmmmm...if Dawnstar could fly fast enough to break the time barrier by herself, might she become a possible candidate for the position of Time Trapper? Posted by Jerry on :
quote:Originally posted by Set:
And yet, it can be pretty easily rationalized.
Comic-book logic has always had speedsters, such as the Flash, able to break the time barrier, and while Dawnstar was never shown to do this before, she was described as being as fast a flier as Superboy.
Even then, she didn't do it alone in this book, but did it by flying up to Superman and 'adding her speed to his.' While this is fluffy at best, it's easy to picture a car moving flat out, and then someone firing a booster rocket that has attached itself to the roof and accelerating the car even faster, which is the hand-waved pseudoscience explanation we are given here.
As for locating the precise 'time' she wished to, that's kind of her power, to track a specific thing. In this case, she's chosen a time period, and her faultless tracking power has led her to exactly 'when' she wants to arrive. It seems like a logical extrapolation for how her tracking power would work in the time-stream.
It sounds like a pretty neat story![/QB][/QUOTE]
True, I guess her tracking poweres could help her identify the point in time in which to stop. How did Superboy accomplish this? Super vision, maybe? Evne if we assume that Dawnstar used her tracking powers to find the correct place to stop, would she be phsically capable of manuevering Superman to that spot and decreasing his speed in a way to make it happen? I think it's jus oneof those things where you have to suspend belief and just accept it for the story to work.
Posted by Triplicate Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Jerry: If you think too hard about the time travel elements of this story it falls apart pretty quickly. Why exactly did the Legion choose this moment in time to intervene? If they believed that Superman couldn’t really change history/destiny, why did they bother to intervene at all? Where were they when Superman went back to get Jon Ross in the Phantom Stranger conclusion? The time travel elements get confusing in the second part of the story as well. Could Superboy and Superman really exist in the same time at the same place? DC never really answered that question. It seemed to be whatever worked best for the story in question. Pete seemed to be able to gain access to Luthor’s time travel device pretty easily. The whole concept of time travel was treated a bit too casually for my taste.
Oh.
Grife.
Yes.
I always found this one of the most confusing time travel stories I ever read - and I only have the first two parts!
Posted by Jerry on :
quote:Originally posted by Fat Cramer: Thanks, Jerry. I never read this story. Curious that they waited a year to wrap it up, rather than do a one year later in the following issue.
Is there any reference to just how fast Dawnstar can fly? She could keep up with the Legion cruiser, but I don't recall any specific number/limit given.
I think the delay was because the story was originally planned as only a two parter. Letter writers objected pretty strongly to the fates of Pete and Jon Ross being left unresolved. The editors got Levitz to do a follow up to appease the fans.
I don't recall Dawnstar's top speed ever being clearly defined. Anyone else?
Posted by jimgallagher on :
I hated this story. First of all, I never liked Dawnstar. Her adding her speed to Superman's is preposterous. If a car is travelling at 60 mph and it gets rear-ended by another car going 70 mph, they are not suddenly going 130 mph. The most she could do is bump Superman's speed up to hers, assuming she's faster than he is, which I doubt. Also, even though she doesn't need a spacesuit, she's not invulnerable and shouldn't be able to travel through time unprotected.
And why didn't Pete ask Superman to take him to be with his son, if all else failed? It would beat never seeing him again. I never bothered with the 2nd and 3rd parts of the story. The 1st one was bad enough.
Posted by Kid Charlemagne on :
If Dawnstar can travel through space without a suit--as she has been shown to do--I can believe she could travel through time without similar protective gear.
Jim's other objections seem valid to me, though.
Posted by jimgallagher on :
Well, for starters, if she's traveling through time, wouldn't she either advance or regress in age? I assume the super cousins' invulnerability and the Legion's time bubbles protect them from the effect of time. Dawnstar has been shown being injured many times, so we know she's not invulnerable.
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by Fat Cramer: Is there any reference to just how fast Dawnstar can fly? She could keep up with the Legion cruiser, but I don't recall any specific number/limit given.
In the pictures that tend to stick in my mind, Mon-El, Dawnstar, Superboy, Ultra Boy and / or Wildfire are the ones that are shown flying outside of the cruisers and generally assumed to be faster than them.
The Kryptonians / Daxamites have been typically shown able to fly near, at or even past light-speed (depending on the era), and Dawnstar has typically been shown able to keep up with them, and been implied to be more maneuverable and a more skilled flier (which would make sense, since she doesn't have a whole suite of other powers to keep track of).
Posted by jimgallagher on :
I thought the key to time travel was moving faster than light . . . ? Also, I'd think that Dawnstar's big ole floppy wings would make her less maneuverable than Superboy/girl, who basically dive through space to fly.
[ October 14, 2008, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: jimgallagher ]
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by jimgallagher: I thought the key to time travel was moving faster than light . . . ? Also, I'd think that Dawnstar's big ole floppy wings would make her less maneuverable than Superboy/girl, who basically dive through space to fly.
That would make sense, but Dawnstars wings never made any sense, because they wouldn't work in space *at all*, wings of that size couldn't lift a human sized person off the ground in earth-gravity and they would indeed wreck her maneuverability compared to any yob with a flight ring (in addition to being unable to get her any faster than terminal velocity in any event, regardless of their strength).
And yet she's been shown dodging energy blasts that move at the speed of light, so her big fluffy wings appear to be entirely cosmetic, until they get chopped off and she mysteriously can't fly anymore...
Can you tell that I always hated this character anyway? I lived on a reservation as a kid. Native American characters who wear buckskins with fringes make me cranky. Native American characters living 1000 years in the future and making a living navigating spaceships, wearing buckskins with fringes (made from space-deer?), make me irrational.
Flying at lightspeed with or without wings, being invulnerable to the ravages of deep space, etc. don't bug me nearly as much as the race-stereotyping characterization, 'cause the Legion already has a half-dozen characters that can fly at lightspeed and / or survive the ravages of deep space and ludicrous speed accelerations / deccelerations.
Posted by jimgallagher on :
THANK YOU! I've had this argument with Greybird many times and I completely agree with you, Set. (except that I didn't grow up on a reservation. )
Besides all your excellent points, it seems to me that either the vastly over-utilized Saturn Girl, or the vastly under-utilized Dream Girl could use their powers to track anyone who needs tracking, without being limited to using their powers in space AND I'm quite certain that Legion cruisers are equipped with tracking devices as has been shown in plenty of stories anyway.
[ October 15, 2008, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: jimgallagher ]
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
Yeah, like comicbook characters/superheroes make sense. IT LOOKS COOL (to us that didn't grow up on a reservation. )
Dawnstar is HOT. That's it. HOT. I don't give a didly if she makes "sense," she's HOT. Did I mention, she's HOT?
So what if I'm shallow. I'm shallow and have 3 bucks to spare on a babe with wings that can't fly through time yet does.
and I'm not even greybird.
Other than that, I'm all with you my brothers. Power to the peeps!
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I thought it was pretty cool that time Dawnstar put her ear to the ground and was able to tell how many villains were approaching!
Or that time they sent her into town and she got beat up!
Posted by jimgallagher on :
I have no problem with her being hot, or her powers making sense. I just don't think her powers are useful enough to grant her Legion membership, considering there are other members that predate her that can serve the same function. Besides the aforementioned Dream Girl and Saturn Girl who could use their powers for tracking, we also already have Superboy/girl/dog/Mon-El/Ultra Boy who could use their super senses for the same purpose. AND I think she's a racist stereotype, not to mention sexist with her sensing/feeling power.
The dumbest Dawnstar use ever was in the Omega storyline. The Legion scanners pick up a being that may or may not be Omega heading their way to destroy them and Wildfire sends out Mon-El and Superboy to see if it's really him, because "he wants Dawnstar's tracking power kept in reserve til they find out if this is the real thing." What?!!!? The Legion is facing "certain doom" and he sends the 2 mightiest members off on what is potentially a wild goose chase so he can keep Dawnstar's [useless] TRACKING power in reserve? This kind of "logic" makes my head spin!
Posted by jimgallagher on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: I thought it was pretty cool that time Dawnstar put her ear to the ground and was able to tell how many villains were approaching!
Or that time they sent her into town and she got beat up!
BWAAHAHAHAAHAHA!!! Posted by Blockade Boy on :
I people insist on bringing logic and facts into this, I'm taking my keyboard and going home.
Posted by Superboy-Supergirl on :
Dawny's Speed was established in the "DC Heroes Role Playing game Reference - Legion of Super-Heroes Vol. 2: The World Book"
In the chapter on Starships its explained as below:
Interstellar spacecraft are all equipped with two types of motive power: an ion or impulse drive used for sub-light speed or in-system travel, and a hyperwarp drive used to attain trans-light velocities...Warp drives function by creating a field of contra-energy" around a ship that allows the vessel to step outside the bounds of normal Einsteinian physics and move at rates substantially faster than the speed of light. While in hyper-space, a vessel's position cannot be detected by ships sensors or super senses (such as Mon-El's Telescopic Vision or Dawnstar's Life Sense Power - her tracking power). The crew continues to experience the passage of time at a normal rate. Warp speeds for starships vary between a range of 41-44 APs. A comparison of average speeds for various classes of ships, and for the flight-capable Legionnaires, is show below.
Don't know if this all helps but...lol Long Live the Legion.
[ October 16, 2008, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: Superboy-Supergirl ]
Posted by jimgallagher on :
Why is Supergirl twice as fast as Superboy? Is she supposed to have half his bullk or something?
What does AP stand for?
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by jimgallagher: THANK YOU! I've had this argument with Greybird many times and I completely agree with you, Set. (except that I didn't grow up on a reservation. )
[Being the only white boy in Apache Junction, the game of 'cowboys and indians' took on a sinister tone. ]
As with, IMO, far too many Legion femmes, Dawnstar has a fairly inoffensive power (I found you! Oh, now I have to fly circles around you, because I can't actually hurt you!) coupled with an extremely confrontational attitude, as if it somehow 'makes up' for the fact that she's a wimp if she acts all swaggery.
And when they partner up with Legion boys, the disparity just becomes *crazy.* Mon-El and Shady are ridiculous example number one, but Wildfire and Dawnstar are ridiculous example number two.
As with several Legion males, Wildfire had to be *toned down* from his initial appearance (see Star Boy, who used to have all of Superboy's powers *and* 'lightning vision!'). Wildfire used to have all the powers of Superboy, 'anti-energy' blasts that hit like antimatter explosions, the power to grow like Colossal Boy, etc. but then he lost his previous uniform, and apparently Brainy has never been able to duplicate it, so he's stuck only being unkillable planet-destroying anti-matter-man. Boo-hoo. Meanwhile, Dawnstar started out with winged flight, space surival and a tracking sense, and has been more recently described in text as having an 'invulnerable body' and 'great strength.' Exactly what is meant by 'invulnerable body' and 'great strength' is unknown, since she's never really been depicted with either, but Geoff Johns seems to think that she has both, making her into some sort of she-Superboy, I guess.
It's characters like Dawnstar that make me love, love, love characters like Kid Quantum 2, who weren't ethnic stereotypes, and managed to bring some pretty hefty (and unique!) power-sets to the team, regardless of their gender.
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy: I people insist on bringing logic and facts into this, I'm taking my keyboard and going home.
Aren't you already home? Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Dawnstar freakin' rawks.
Just sayin' Posted by Phantom Girl on :
quote:Originally posted by Set: Dawnstar started out with winged flight, space surival and a tracking sense, and has been more recently described in text as having an 'invulnerable body' and 'great strength.' Exactly what is meant by 'invulnerable body' and 'great strength' is unknown, since she's never really been depicted with either, but Geoff Johns seems to think that she has both, making her into some sort of she-Superboy, I guess.
I've been following this conversation as it develops and now I must ask...when and where did we the reader's get some sense that Dawnstar had some sort of invulnerable body (other than the ability to not need air in space) and super strength. I was only aware of her flight, tracking, and flying through space without any sort of artifical resperation unit.
Also, I read the little chart which was taken from the DC game on how fast Legionnaires and ships travel. Is this accurate? Does Dawnstar outdo even the greatest of space crafts? She flies faster than Superboy? I've been looking for this information and haven't been able to find it. Can we get a clairifcation on this please...more details.
Posted by matlock on :
Wasn't she shown punching through ships and things like that? Sort of like Cannonball in the MU (unless they've changed how Sam works in the 10+ years since I last read an X-Book.)
Posted by jimgallagher on :
She was shown diving through a Legion cruiser once to save Light Lass (I think it was in the "Cold and Lonely Corner of Hell" story). She came out with cuts and scrapes and said it hurt, but was relatively unharmed. I think this may be where her "invulnerability" was first depicted. I thought it was a mistake at the time to show her as semi-invulnerable, but if her body can survive the vacuum of space, she must be semi-tough.
How Light Lass survived being shoved through the ship walls is another question.
I don't really buy any info from role playing games unless it appeared in comics first.
[ October 16, 2008, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: jimgallagher ]
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
She makes my noodle al dente.
Posted by Superboy-Supergirl on :
the role playing game was made with Paul Levitz oversight so i would hold it with validity and I would assume Supergirl has more than Superboy is because she has more experience than Superboy at that point in time. As Superman he may have shown her all the tricks he's learned from his experience as Superboy and learned as Superman so on that basis it would make more sense for Kara to have more skill.
As for AP i couldnt tell ya lol.
Also for proof of Supergirl's skill level with this look at what happend in LSH 294 when Darkseid put his Omega effect on both of them..Kara was fast enough to avoid it But Kal-El wasn't and got sent back to his own time and couldn't return to the Legion till it wore off (as by his comments in LSH 300).
Posted by Beyonder-Prime, Champion of Life on :
quote:Originally posted by jimgallagher: She was shown diving through a Legion cruiser once to save Light Lass (I think it was in the "Cold and Lonely Corner of Hell" story). She came out with cuts and scrapes and said it hurt, but was relatively unharmed. I think this may be where her "invulnerability" was first depicted. I thought it was a mistake at the time to show her as semi-invulnerable, but if her body can survive the vacuum of space, she must be semi-tough.
...And let's not forget when Dawnstar visited Polar Boy's homeworld, she effortlessly endured the preternatural heat there, though any other non-native had to wear futuristic protection suits, while on planet. In fact, the White Which (who was on Tharn also) even fainted, because her protection spell against the heat wasn't strong enough!
Posted by MLLASH on :
I can buy folks not digging what could be considered stereotypical about Dawny (I fall more on the side of Blocks-- I thought she looked both cool and hot).
But how anyone who can survive unaided in space can be said to be not at the very least semi-invulnerable confuses me. I mean, this is space. SPACE! It's like, REALLY cold and there's no air and stuff. Maybe in the 4boot, Dawny can be rebooted as the all-new Endurance Girl.
(Yeah, I'm one of those "Dawny is one of the toughest chick Legionnaires" people.)
Posted by Beyonder-Prime, Champion of Life on :
Ah, but you're right about Dawnstar being one of the "thoughest" girl-Legionnaires. It doesn't QUITE scream right into ones faces, because DC never made it explicit; they only underscored her (so-called) "winged" flight, her tracking powers, and her all but ridiculous speed. But if we ignore DC HEROES and WHO'S WHO for a moment, and just go by the comics, we notice that Dawnstar is VERY powerful indeed:
Cosmic Flight: Dawnstar can travel at speeds at least rivaling, and quite possibly exeeding the speed of Superboy. At least when "adding" her speed to Superman, she could break the time barieer, and proved even able to force Superman's god-like body into a very specific point of all time. Dawnstar proved fast enough to enter (and travel through) hyper space itself in a span of seconds, without showing the slightest sign of being even moderately winded, or something. You'd think she just came back from crossing the room.
Super-Tracking: She was said to be able to follow a single dust particle right through the depths of hyper space-- and she even could track objects through the time stream.
(Limited) Invulnerability: She could survive unlimited amounts of time in deep space, needing neither warmth, gravity, air, or any other form of sustenance. (Unless, of course, she fed on sun light, like plants. In that case, one wonders if she ever got to meet Chlorophyll Boy...)
Super-Strength: Dawnstar proved able to bodily smash through objects that were "unbreakable" by 20th/21th century standards, such as space ships, or high-durability domes. Furthermore, one of her signature moves was grabbing opponents, and jerking/throwing them around, as if they were dolls.
So. Hope THAT will be enough to show you Dawnstar haters that Dawnstar is far more then merely a "hot Native American chick with wings".
Dawnstar IS a powerhouse: only it rarely shows because her main-powers are of a more non-agressive, supporting nature, whereas over a quarter of the Legion has even more devastating attack capabilities.
But she could rend most 20th century robots limb from limb, so I'd be careful around her...
Posted by Beyonder-Prime, Champion of Life on :
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy: I people insist on bringing logic and facts into this, I'm taking my keyboard and going home.
Cryboy... Posted by MLLASH on :
I'm totally digging your 'super-jerking/throwing foes around' description.
If they ever bring back the Legionnaires' little placards that used to be displayed in front of them with their names and power descriptions, Dawnstar's should say that instead of "super-tracking" or whatever!
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Beyonder-Prime, Champion of Life:
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy: I people insist on bringing logic and facts into this, I'm taking my keyboard and going home.
Cryboy...
:PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
though with all this space flying through meteor particles and stuff, one might wonder how she could be brought down with an arrow. They were terribly inconsistent with her vulnerability aspects.
[ October 18, 2008, 07:44 AM: Message edited by: Blockade Boy ]
Posted by MLLASH on :
I think back on the old board we may have discussed that her semi-invulnerability-- like her tracking-- was mainly space-based.
"Space-based"... I like typing that.
Posted by jimgallagher on :
I'd say Dawnstar probably used her high speed velocity to accomplish her feats of "strength" and breaking through space ships and such. A semi-invulnerable body travelling at lightspeed would pack quite a whallop, without necessarily needing super strength to do it.
However, all these abilities were already in the Legion's repertoire before she came along. And who needs to track a dust speck anyway? Except maybe Horton. Posted by MLLASH on :
To be honest, though I'm a Dawny fan, it can be argued that Wildfire kinda abused his authority somewhat to bring Dawny onboard. He did have that crush on her and all.
One assumes she was voted in fair and square at some point, though.
Back to the original topic for a sec-- I know at some point I had these issues (I vividly remember the cover Jerry describes), because I had all the DCCP issues, but I honestly do NOT remember this story. Pete Ross really went apes#!+ and tried to kill Supes? I'll wager he was dishonorably discharged from Honorary Legionnaire status!
Posted by Superboy-Supergirl on :
LOL lashy he was an adult (superman's age) so i doubt he really thought about the Legion in years. I guess Jimmy Olsen replaced him as their superman bestfriend link LOL...damn legion...always wanting the kids! Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by jimgallagher: I'd say Dawnstar probably used her high speed velocity to accomplish her feats of "strength" and breaking through space ships and such. A semi-invulnerable body travelling at lightspeed would pack quite a whallop, without necessarily needing super strength to do it.
And that's true. The old saw is that hurricane-force winds can embed a blade of grass in a telephone pole. I imagine that at just short of lightspeed, there's not much in the universe that's going to 120 lb woman...
If her 'invulnerability' just applies to environmental conditions, and the effects of acceleration and impact from her own velocity, then she's a one-woman wrecking crew, who can be blown out of the air by a handgun (assuming the handgun was in the hands of someone who could see and hit something moving at her speed!).
Similarly, if she's able to accelerate herself to near light speeds without flying apart under the strain, she would be able to accelerate someone she's holding along with her, and then stop, letting them take an unscheduled flight to Abu Dhabi. It would happen fast enough that it would look like a judo-flip to anyone else.
I like that! Dawnstar as a heavy hitter through *intelligent use of her powers,* not just adding various Superboy powers to her willy-nilly!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
) ![[TimeTrapper]](graemlins/TimeTrapper.gif)
![[Dawnstar]](graemlins/Dawnstar.gif)
![[Ultra Boy - Re-Imagined]](graemlins/UltraBoy3.gif)
![[Wildfire - Post-Boot]](graemlins/Wildfire1.gif)
![[Superman boy -Animated]](graemlins/Supermana.gif)
![[M Onel - Post-Boot]](graemlins/MOnel1.gif)
![[Supergirl - re-imagined]](graemlins/Supergirl3.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[tease]](graemlins/tease.gif)
![[LOL]](graemlins/lol.gif)